age was 50. i have a tweet here that basically sums it up perfectly for guys. natalie has it. >> jason says i want to be old enough to know better but old enough to know better but young enough that i don't need any blue pills. >> what 50-year-old did this research because i'm 42 and i'm okay with that. "morning joe" starts right now. folks here in washington like to grade on style. and so had we rolled out something that was very smooth and disciplined and linear, they would have graded it well even if it was a disastrous policy. we know that because that's how

they graded the iraq war -- >> so this doesn't change your view of president bush? >> no. what it says is that i'm less concerned about style points, i'm much more concerned about getting the policy right. >> well, that's a good fitting -- >> live look at capitol hill. >> more interested -- >> at the top of the hour. good morning, everyone, it's monday, september 16. welcome to "morning joe." >> i'm thinking fdr's first gnawing raw, jfk's inauguration, that moment where he goes to help robert frost read the poem. you know, there aren't many moments like that in presidential history. >> stop it. >> not impressed by the interview. >> am i not impressed? why? orchestrate come on everyone around table -- come on. >> speak being of everyone "around the table."

msnbc contributor mike barnacle approximately msnbc and "time" magazine senior contributor mark halperin. in washington we havic political reporter for the "new york times," amy lowery. would you like to say anything? there was an alabama game this weekend. it was not pretty. i thought your people were more -- >> your people -- >> what do you mean by that? >> ross perot talking to the naacp in 1992. >> you're talk about your team and it's such a good team and they almost lost. >> those people that don't go to all your high faluten.

>> looked like they were losing. >> football was fantastic. >> my only recommendation is don't do the money exchanging things when your team is down 42-21. >> that was a mistake. >> really? that's like the team that's like losing 56-3 and a guy gets a 5 yard run and gets up and pumps his fist especially if you're johnny football and let alabama win the game by throwing key interceptions at every game. red sox? you and i talked at the beginning of the year. i thought they might go .500. you laughed at me. >> it's witness of those years, one of those deals, a karma

deal. formidable. >> team. they are really a good team unit. 25 twice. they get along. they like each other. they love baseball. play hard. several of them play multiple positions. last night they had a wonderful ceremony for mariano rivera. >> joe girardi can't win manager of the year unless they win the playoffs. they will get the wild card? >> you got to go red sox, john farrell. now let's get to the news, shall we? this morning, president obama will deliver remarks from the rose garden marking the five year anniversary of the financial crisis. the president is expected to highlight gains in jobs and housing while saying the economy is still recovering from the great recession. meanwhile former u.s. treasury secretary larry summers has withdrawn his name from

consideration for chairman of the federal reserve. >> we'll continue this story in a second but larry summers feels the white house left him out hanging to dry, didn't go out and aggressively support him and the senate was killing him. why? >> the president has had a lot on his plate. he spent a fair amount of time on this as well as the people who are to work capitol hill. this is a very heavy-lift because of the interest group pressure on democratic senators, he had three members of the committee publicly against him. a third of the democrats in the senate already for janet yellen, who i bet now will get the job. the president did something the presidents rarely do he caved. it's clear he would have liked to pick larry summers and democrats in the senate said no and he said fine. >> the "new york times" said the crisis in syria may have played a role. the president's inability to

rally congressional democrats on syria persuaded mr. summers that his most important audience, the senate, which must confirm a fed chairman, probably could not be won over. he concluded that the white house was also unlikely to overcome opposition possible his candidacy from many of the same democrats who view him as an opponent. >> a couple of senators were not going to be won over. one thing we reported they hadn't asked john tester whether he would support summers on friday and he said no. the committee is 12-10. they would have had to bring over three republicans which would have been difficult. democrats more than anything else didn't want to do the horse trading that would be necessary to get larry summers even out of committee let alone win a full

senate vote. there's a real sense the obama administration since this was the chosen candidate probably mishandled this a little bit, left him out there a little bit, there was a lot of scuttlebutt about this. president obama addressed this but not a lot of strategy to get him through. >> let's move on to obama care. the latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll shows stagnant support for the health care law. not well. >> really, i was pulling for it. >> 44% of americans -- >> it failed. >> believe the plan is a bad idea. 45% believe it will have a negative effect on the health care system. >> keep that up right there. this is supposed to be the landmark piece of legislation for barack obama. a lot of progressives have been saying, mike barnacle, this is about health care for all americans and this is the right thing to do.

that's stunning that almost two times as many people believe it's going to have a negative impact on the health care system as a positive one. those numbers are just dismal. >> well, they are dismal, but the act itself has not truly been implemented. we'll find out whether it will have an impact, negative porestive on the health care system in the coming year. but not right now, i would think. so this is people's perceptions of the coverage the health care act has received. there's been noise, a lot of noise about the health care act -- >> there's a lot of exceptions exemptions. unions are asking for an exemption because they read into this thing and realized it's bad for their business, bad for their workers, bad for their unions. the president, of course, denied the union exemption.

>> talk about people lying to pollsters, 30% of the people in that poll claim they understand the health care law. i think the president faces a huge choice. he wants to talk about the middle class. joe biden in iowa yesterday talking about the middle class. president interviewed over the weekend talked about it. they want to focus on,000 reshape the economy for the middle class. if they want to get the health care to be understood he has to hug that achievement, get people to under it better and that's a risk for him because it's not popular. >> the entire underlying moral point of it is that everyone is covered, it's not -- >> help for the middle class. >> the people who wrote the legislation, they don't understand it. can't explain it. >> nancy pelosi, again, famously said we need to pass it so we'll understand what's in it. >> all right. >> seriously, here we are two

years later. >> i'm sure she read it by now. >> they don't understand it. people on the hill don't understand it. >> it's funny. people understand how much it will hurt them. they can articulate that. but they don't understand how it works and how it covers people. >> what happens is experts go to members of businesses or capitol hill, members of congress and say hey congresswoman if we're held to the dictates of obama care this is what's going to happen and you're going to lose this person, that person, this person, that person, you're going to lose your best people. they do understand that. this suggestion all along and identify said it all along this suggestion that you can add 30 million or so people and it's going to be a free lunch and bend the cost curve down and do all these wonderful things and

da dande dan dandelions will grow. the biggest problem seems to be, again i hate to say it because the president will, of course, be offended that we're talking about style over substance but a little bit of style in defense of obama care right now wouldn't be a bad thing if you support the bill. somebody out there that's a champion of it -- who is that person on capitol hill that is a champion that could explain like ronald reagan used to be able to explain the most complex nuclear missile treaties for working class guys in youngstown, ohio. where is the person that can do that for obama care? they got to be there somewhere, right? >> i think that the obama

administration feels like they have not done a great job of explaining the law. it does two things it covers uninsured people and attempts to control costs. the truth is it looks like it will do both of those things. cost curve is already been. but deductibles and out of pocket cost is still going up. so health spending has flattened occupant if you're experiencing a lot out of pocket it doesn't feel that way to you. notably a lot of the big popular provisions of law hasn't come in to place yet and there's a lot of states that aren't going to expand medicaid, aren't going to take part in other parts of the law. it's still not there. they don't have a lot to point to yet and they haven't done a good job of pointing at the things that are already popular and have come in to play like letting kids up to age 26 stay on their parents' health plan. >> how does it work for you

>> works very well. that and pre-existing conditions are immensely popular. >> you got kids still under their parents insurance. >> those facets of the law might be good -- >> might be good? yes, i do, perhaps. >> there's no such thing as a free lunch. >> the entire concept it won't be easy. you try to pass health care reform. >> part of the difficulty here is that who is going to defend, articulate, explain -- >> totally. >> only the president can do that. he's got a little thing on his plate called syria. so how does he switch gears. >> this has been going on for a while and i do agree -- >> we're on the eve of having these sign up deals going on. >> if it controls costs as the

president says it will he won't need style points. >> exactly. >> scariest number in that poll no one thinks it will bend the cost curve. even some people who worked on it to get it passed said at the time to reporters privately we think it will bend the cost curve built we're not sure. >> annie was alluding to this in california and some other early states there's positive signs. others not so much. we'll see. i got a question for willie. can i ask willie a question. >> you can ask him one question. >> help me out here. i'm going straight to you, man. so, okay, we got donald trump. donald trump is like the abraham lincoln of our time. >> fair. >> we've been talking about joe biden, right? richard the lionhearted.

>> go back to jefferson. >> he's the jefferson of our time. >> he's proved it again at the steak fry. george jefferson, yes. >> george jefferson? >> so you thought he struck a thomas -- >> he looks like thomas jefferson. >> all right. i'm going to stop. >> americans -- >> willie -- >> exactly. >> stop. >> willie is now going to take us to iowa. willie what happened in iowa. >> so, he's in iowa. he's at tom harkins steak fry. a lot of people wonder will he run in 2016. on sunday he stops by the 2016 caucus state fry. seven years ago president obama began speculation about his own run.

biden flipping steaks. boy did he enjoy himself. >> yeah. >> it's amazing when you come to speak at the state fry a whole lot of people seem to take notice. i don't know why the hell it is. you attracted the entire national press corps. >> there you go. >> what's going on? >> vice president biden also singled out for praise the one name he left out is getting some attention. >> i think john kerry has been one of the best secretary of states so far in the history of the united states. >> so he didn't mention secretary of state hillary clinton. >> why? >> we're making too much out of that. >> that's awful. >> mark halperin reading too much into this? >> i will say -- >> that's a leading question. >> if you've never gone to the harkin steak fry. i recommend it. joe biden, iowa loves joe, joe loves iowa.

step on the day why bringing up other people who might run. >> when a about his day? >> why wouldn't he have brought her up. >> unsolicited name. >> if he runs in 2016, the president will say what? >> my guy. >> they have an agreement with the clintons. >> this is what the president said yesterday. >> we are tremendously lucky to have an incredible former secretary of state who couldn't have served me better and an incredible vice president who couldn't be serving me better and i suspect if you asked both of them they would say it's too premature to start talking about 2016. >> he's in iowa.

>> iowa is a big state and an old friend of tom harkin. >> iowa is a big state. >> that's a great look the end. george, that's all you're getting. >> iowa is a big state. >> okay. interesting. you know they have -- i'm just telling you. bad interview. it's so boring. >> what's the deal? he and the president is part of that deal including obama taking biden up to the truman balcony and pushing him over without looking? >> we want to get to this story in colorado. unbelievable. president obama has declared a major disaster in colorado with the relentless rain has been hammering parts of the state at this hour. more than 1,000 people are unaccounted for. five people unaccounted for. this morning rescue crews are hoping to turn things around in

colorado. search-and-rescue crews have been hampered by rain. >> weather is the horrible part right now. with this weather the helicopters aren't able to fly. and that really makes it hard for us to get our people in and get other people out. >> while the number of people unaccounted for soared to more than 1,200 officials say they do not expect to find that many people dead. the number is based on reports of people unable to reach family members. the flooding spread to 15 different counties in colorado. 1500 homes have been destroyed. about 17,500 other homes are damaged. it will cost hundreds of millions of dollars to repair the damage. >> how can we ever recover from this? and i know exactly inch by inch,

mile by mile, community by community. >> let's go to bill karins who joins us now. bill, first of all, any relief in sight in terms of the rain. >> yes. that's the good news. the clean up can begin. the flooding rains are over with. we started on thursday and friday talking about the flash flood in boulder. we thought it was isolated. then it kept raining. it spread river to river, canyon to canyon and the mudslides, the bridges that are washed out and it will take a year or two to repair infrastructure. five confirmed fatalities. 16 inches of rain. in the mountainous areas, foot hills near denver not miami, florida. they can't deal with that much rain. that's why they are calling it a one in 1,000 year flood event. we'll never see this again in our lives. mika mentioned 1,000 unaccounted for. 1500 homes destroyed, 17,000

damaged. the rainfall forecast does look better in this area. it will clear out but mika, in this portion of the country, in the rockies there, in the foot hills winter comes early. usually they get their first snows in october and november. a lot of these communities are isolated. that's why they are telling these people you can survive the winter being this isolated by yourselves and some people may be out of their homes for months to come. >> bill karins keep us posted. annie lowery, thank you. >> thanks for putting up with mika. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. coming up on "morning joe," senator elizabeth warren will join us. i can't wait. >> can't wait either. >> also senators john mccain and dick durbin. they can explain the health care law to you. in a few minutes mad dog. >> this guy is mad.

the doggie. >> he's going to break down week two of the nfl. up next the top stories in "the politico" playbook. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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it's your move. >> should we call hr? i don't know what to do. all right. time now to take a look -- >> don't take it personally. >> it's 24 past the hour. >> he's just got a problem. go take his place. >> clayton, you could -- >> clayton take some evidentiary pictures. >> "usa today" --

>> redskins. what's wrong with the redskins? rb 3 -- >> bad day for them. rg3 is like rg .5. >> what's wrong with this guy >> he's hurt. >> it is over for them? >> why is he hurt? when is he going to stop hurting. why don't they put him on the sideline. >> second week in october. >> he has to get his strength back. >> shanahan -- >> he doesn't care. >> what's wrong with shanahan. he doesn't care. >> okay. "usa today" after spending nearly two years off an italian island "costa concordia" will be on the move. they will attempt to right the capsized ship. this marks the first time engineers have attempted to raise a vessel this size so close to land.

>> "l.a. times" school district in southern california using outside companies to monitor its students. i like this. district is paying $40,000 to have a firm called geolistening watching social media accounts of their students. if the company finds anything ranging from bullying to terrorism. >> this is from the "financial times." i love it. whole foods plans to open a smaller store on chicago's south streets with reduced pricing on some items. whole foods hopes to shed its reputation of being too expensive. a whole foods in washington, d.c. opened to much success. the chicago store is set to open in three years. opening in food deserts. love it. >> you can't find fruit stands

in these food deserts. whole foods which has been on the cutting-edge of so many things, going into disadvantaged neighborhoods. listen, we need to go to chicago, go to d.c. and do this story. good for you, whole foods. by the way, "daily news," eli manning having a slow bad start. family news back in the news. mom mommy! powerball drawing on saturday didn't have a match so now it's worth $400 million. we're going to do it, we're going to win it and see you in a couple of years. back in august the powerball jackpot rose to a record dollars $448 million. >> paula deen took to the stage

at a cooking shine texas. she thanked the crowd of 1500 for their support. >> i just want to say before we start cooking i'm so thankful and i'm so full of gratitude for all of the love and encouragement that you all have shown me. as you all know, unless you've been under a rock i had a little rough patch this summer. but, you know, it was an opportunity to learn. i learned a lot about myself, and certainly learned a lot about my business. and i just want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart. [ applause ] for your love and support. >> you know, mike barnacle she's

good. i don't think, though, she's quite as good as when she's got jim baker next theory. they were an amazing pair, and a couple that no one will ever forget. >> no. tickets cost as much as $400. >> you know who i would pay $400, to see the chief white house correspondent for politico. >> before i do that, guys, we've been sitting here for 20 some minutes. >> 30. >> 30. guy doesn't mention he's on the cover of "new york times" sports section. >> joe, take a look. >> oh, my god, mike. look at you. you look in tiptop shape. is that a medium? >> that's from -- >> size medium. >> months and months working out in central park.

you're looking good. you're scrumptious. all right. let's go to mike. >> what's going on here. >> the we've courthouse correspondent for politico. good morning. >> good morning. >> so this morning politico is taking a look at why ken cuccinelli is losing the governor's race in virginia. what did you find? >> looks like a shellacking. the president won the last two times. but we have a republican governor now. it looks like the republican ken cuccinelli the attorney general will lose badly. he lost a lot of ground over the summer. even his own people tell us that if the election is held today he would lose. terry mcauliffe some of the republicans thought they could feast on, his connection to the clintons, his work as a

political fundraiser. business deals that have been in the news. things that have happened to ken cuccinelli, the drip, drip of revelations about the governor, bob mcdonnell and the gifts he's taken including the rolex watch, ken cuccinelli's own involvement in that until last week he finally wrote a check, gave some of the known charity but took a long time to respond. you pile on to that democrats are badly outspending him, and he's neglecting northern virginia. northern virginia where the votes are, he's been down state where it's easier for him. >> so, i mean, mark hall person as they write the piece, terry mcauliffe puts in a bad ad. how does this fall apart for ken cuccinelli. >> for months people said neither can win the race but one of them has to. ken cuccinelli has a new ad

that's getting positive attention. we'll see one more round of terry mcauliffe. cuccinelli is to the right of the state and not run a good campaign so far. the key thing politico is reporting a lot of republicans are giving up on him. he's been in that danger all along. a lot of republicans not happy he was the nominee from the beginning. they were looking to have their suspicions confirmed he was not the strongest candidate. >> mike's reporting, 77% of self-identifying republicans support him. mike, thank you so much. coming up next, the mad dog. the man himself. chris russo joins us to talk about nfl's week two. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪

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that's not much, you think. except it's 2% every year. go to e-trade and find out how much our advice and guidance costs. spoiler alert: it's low. it's guidance on your terms, not ours. e-trade. less for us. more for you. ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. [ female announcer ] at 100 calories, not all food choices add up. some are giant. some not so giant. when managing your weight, bigger is always better. ♪ ho ho ho ♪ green giant

>> butler -- and it is a touchdown! carolina trying to stop them and win the game. wide-open. touchdown! romo going deeper. he scores! vick down the far side.

he's got it. for a touchdown! and here he goes, he is gone! >> joining us now for the "morning joe" gridiron grind mad dog radio, good friends chris russo. >> yes, boys and girls how are you. >> you're out at met life. >> going to these games is a pain in the neck. trying there. security. if you have a pocketbook you got to check it in. then you leave, you got the traffic. i left my house at 1:00 and i got home at 10:00 at night. remember you can't follow the 1:00 games. highlights i show you on the scoreboard are a waste of time. the nfl is worried about the tv experience overriding the game experience. you got to understand it. sitting through the commercials.

better for college. >> speaking of disaster the giants look awful. >> terrible. >> the defense depend >> terrible defense. they can't run the ball. obviously against peyton manning, a bad situation, bad interception. peyton manning played pretty well in the fourth. bad pick in the third quarter. eli has seven interceptions in two games. this is off a foot. big play at the time. giants got major problems. they can't run the ball. they don't have a good offensive line. can't stop anybody. eli hasn't played great. they can't play on special teams. >> other than that they are great. >> yeah. bad, bad division. >> you mentioned that, the redskins, rg3 does not look well. >> not 100%. defense is bad too. defense has not played well. green bay had a great game. four touchdowns. fourth down completions for

touchdowns. redskin defense got killed last week by chip kelly. griffin as you said had good second halves but the game is over. redskins have major problems. maybe that knee is an issue. redskins and giants issues. >> 0-2. look really bad. late game last night seahawks had an hour delay. >> tampa too. >> once the game got going seahawks blew the doors off. >> when san francisco played late last year they got killed. i thought they would come back and play better. seattle has an excellent secondary. they can rush to quarterback. they have goat net building. good running game. this is a big early season win for the seahawks against their arch rival. now wilson is a good player. tells you. don't draft quarterbacks in the first round. draft them in the third, fourth

round, kaepernick late round. wilson came out of ny state. you get these q bs late. huge foam. >> some people are excited about buffalo bills. i mean they had a tough loss week one. they win yesterday. >> e.j. manuel makes the play with six seconds to go. the head coach is a lame duck. this is a game you have to win. manuel makes a nice play. miami has played well. they did a nice job. two road games. they won in indianapolis. nice job by the dolphins right out of the guest. interesting scenario going on right now in nfl. >> what do you think of my guy jay cutler, chicago bears. >> they won two crazy games.

they should have lost to cincinnati. opening kick-off against minnesota. kid from tennessee runs for the touchdown. patterson doesn't get touch. minnesota had leads left and right. minnesota had to settle for a field goal late in the game when they were driving. six-point lead. enabled chicago to come back. you'll see the winning play here. it's wide-open, willie. you could have caught this. wide-open with a touchdown. what a loss for minnesota. 0-2. >> we're through two weeks. who do you like right now that you didn't expect to like in afc or nfc. >> the patriots, jets and buffalo. miami as two road wins. i would be very worried about the nfc north pittsburgh bad. baltimore badly beat the browns. cincinnati lost their first game. cleveland doesn't have a quarterback. i would be worried about the nfc

north. a 9-7 team might be able to win that. >> mad dog mika very concerned about the alabama crimson tide. >> defense. did you watch this game >> yeah. >> defense. where is their secondary. big kid, mike evans catching balls all over the place. mccarren is excellent. >> manziel played well even though he gave alabama the win. >> he might have made the two bad interceptions. >> i got to say, though, your times writer talked about this very well, stop asking mccarren about manziel. he said mccarren had a tom brady performance. i don't think i've ever seen a college quarterback play as consistently and, i mean, he called the audible at the end of the game. mccarron has snuck up on all of

us. >> he's an nfl quarterback. >> manziel is flashy, phenomenal, but mccarron does not make the mistakes that johnny manziel makes. >> he doesn't have a running game. this is eli manning in the super bowl against the patriots. remember that? then he goes to the right of the field and they catch it and make a big play. listen, manziel doesn't that have weapons that alabama does. but i'm impressive with the alabama quarterback. excellent. >> how about them yankees? >> the yankees. the yankees stink. they got murdered. >> they got no players. >> they got murdered. 6-7. oh, my goodness. they are not going make the playoffs. >> i'm hoping for wild card things. joe girardi -- >> nice guy. >> what he's done this year is nothing short of amazing. that's what a manager of the year should be, a guy that

takes, you know -- >> francona could win it. september 30th for a-rod enjoy your last couple of weeks because you're not playing next year. >> you don't think >> oh, god no. i would be shocked. horowitz is nervous. people care about this one. >> go knock down the suspension. >> chris russo. >> see you guys. >> you can hear chris every weekday afternoon on sirius. this spring he hosts a new show at 1:00 on the mlb network. can't get enough of this guy. next mike lupica joins us on set. we'll be right back. ♪

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i tthan probablycare moreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.

for you on this monday morning. look, the sun is trying to come up over washington. as fall sets in. the "l.a. times" raised the minimum wage. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> ideally brisk economic growth would force employers to compete for more workers increasing wages and benefits across the board. that's what happened in the mid to late 1990s and it's evident today in some boom towns but in california as in most of the u.s. growth has been sluggish. many businesses are still hesitant to expand because the main driver of the economy, consumer spending remains stuck in low gear. that aversion to visk helps

explain how the solid corporate profits and stock market gains in recent years have co-existed with diminishing median wages and stubbornly high unemployment. raising the minimum wage should help shift some of the profits now being captured by the business owners and investors back into the economy because unlike upper-income americans, minimum-wage earners aren't savers. they spend. >> you got right now consumer spending is real estate manger stubbornly low. so if you force businesses to raise the minimum wage, you will, of course, raise costs on the number one cost to small business, which are, which is labor, and -- >> so -- >> if i could finish, please. you raise the cost of doing business which will then make prices go up even higher, which

i'm sure that if consumers aren't spending enough now when you increase prices about 20%, that will really get them out of the door and into the malls. or, of course, actually the opposite could happen if thousands of years of economic, like realities were to continue to impact us today. >> the california proposal is basically a living wage proposal. it's phased in over a couple of years. goes from $8 to $9 next july and $10 the following july. the people who receive that raise spend it on grocery, on sneakers for fall, going back to school stuff like that. i don't think it's a killer. >> it's not a killer. i'll take the same sarcastic tone and concept that barney frank used on "meet the press" yesterday. i'm so sorry that companies that are making record profits, you know, are so literally going to

be hurt by this that they are, you know, gripped with fear that they will come tumbling down. >> there's a lot of fear out in the economy now. we had a flat stagnant economy. consumer spending remains low. >> exactly. >> if you think now is the time to raise labor costs, so you raise prices on the working class and middle class people across the board, then i would simply say that who ever would be making these suggestions don't understand basic economics. >> what if we get rid of the minimum wage. would that be good for the economy? >> i think the minimum wage is where it's at and we have to wait for the economy to grow. we have to wait for consumer, consumer spending to go up. consumer confidence to go up. and as the economy grows then yeah, that's -- it's a balancing act. like everything in the economy.

whether you're talking about the deficit, debt, tax cuts, tax increase. you don't want to raise taxes when the economy is stumbling along. >> or when it's good. >> you don't want to cut taxes, you know, when you've got massive deficit, and, you know, bring along inflation. so the concept right now -- if anybody thinks we got an economy that's strong enough to increase the minimum wage, go ahead, good luck, california. i mean, is that just me? >> no. but let's lower the minimum wage if that will help. >> okay, that's fine if that's the argument you want to take. i'll just say now might not be a good time to increase the minimum wage because i don't know that cutting the minimum wage will create new jobs and will create economic growth but i do know raising it right now is not a good time. when we got 4% growth, then talk

about it. do you have any other, like devil's advocate questions? >> the minimum wage by coincidence is the right level? >> no, it's not exactly the right level right now. right now we have a sagging economy and the last thing i would do right now when you have a sagging economy, when you have flat consumer spending is this "l.a. times" editorial the last thing i'm going to do is put another burden on a small business. the last thing i'll do is put burden on the working class people and have labor costs go up at every place where they shop so their prices will go up. call me stupid. go ahead, please. i just don't think in this economy you want to put more burden on small business owners and on consumers. and that's what this would be doing. >> coming up, some of the leading senators on capitol hill, senator elizabeth warren. >> i don't agree at all.

but i made my point. >> mark, you disagree? take that down. >> i think it's arbitrary saying it shouldn't be raised now if it's not at the exact right level. maybe it's not. >> you're missing my point. we don't know what the quote exact right level is because that's an arbitrary question. what i think will be different from what you think. and what mike and willie think and mika thinks. but the one thing we to know is the economy is struggling right now. and so, would raising the minimum wage right now during a struggling economy, would that help or hurt? might help. >> might boost consumer spending. >> that's the debate. >> we'll leave with you the last word. >> we'll be right back. i was made to work. make my mark with pride. create moments of value. build character through quality.

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coming up next, inside a dysfunctional white house and why the obama message machine is broken. richard wolf joins us next with his new book, "the reselling of president obama." >> good day to have him on. >> also ceo of the aspen institute, walter isaacson is here on "morning joe" when we

come back.

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>> i don't think that mr. putin has the same values that we do and i think that, obviously, by protecting mr. assad he has a different attitude about the assad regime. there's a whole range of areas where we currently worked together. we worked together on counterterrorism operations. this is not the cold war. this is not a contest between the united states and russia. the fact of the matter is that if russia wants to have some

influence in syria post-assad that doesn't hurt our interests. i know that sometimes this gets framed or looked at through the lens of the u.s. versus russia. that's not what this is about. >> welcome back to "morning joe." look at that beautiful sunrise over washington, d.c. >> gorgeous. >> we have senior social correspondent mark halperin. joining the table ceo of the aspen institute, walter isaacson. also with us msnbc political analyst and executive editor of msnbc.com richard wolf. he's out tomorrow, is tomorrow -- >> today. >> with a new book, "the message, the reselling of president obama." >> mark halperin, so really quickly we get you on your father an important noted man,

sent you and e-mail regarding my segment. >> we were talking about the minimum wage. my father is headed to warsaw but watching the program on his sling box. heard our discussion. he knew herman kahn, he quoted him no serious person could be for any minimum wage which reduces hiring. you got to say minimum wage should be zero or a living wage one or the other. and herman kahn said it doesn't make any sense. get rid of it. >> that's an option too. >> you want no change. >> you got to balance it, you got to calibrate. you got figure out what the demand is for jobs. if the demand is not there to have people hire once you do the

minimum wage bad idea. to say all or nothing i think doesn't get what we try to do in this country which is just get the calibration and balance right and you should be able to sense whether there's enough demand for new jobs in the economy starting up again that when you raise the minimum wage you won't depress. >> it's not a living wage, would you agree with that? >> absolutely. i wish it were. >> wish it were. >> i wish it were. but you cannot -- wishing it does not make it so. you need an economy that's growing and that's what will eventually increase our wages. >> companies that are imposing this on their workers are making profits. >> profits are good. stock market is going up and should drive wages up pretty soon. should drive demand up. you're not saying that there's at that robust enough committee moment are you >> willie and i were talking before during the break like

almost two economies. if there's a goldman sachs, make sure sack sacks pays their people $15. i'm with you. big banks. i'm with you. it's my background, i'm worried about the small business owner that is renting out at $855 a month, you know a place in a strip mall in hackensack that's concerned about obama care, concerned about regulations from jersey, that's concerned about local regulations, and now is going to have to -- >> but, joe, the main question is -- >> have to pay their employees more. if that person does survive how much does he or she have to increase costs? >> that's why it's misleading because when you hear some people on tv say they are making record profits. some people are. goldman sachs. dry cleaner is not make record profits. he's the one who is hit by this. >> it might apply to a walmart

who does make record profits, that's making a lot of profits, and for people like that, that have a lot of minimum wage workers, it makes sense. >> think so. >> don't think it makes as much sense say at mcdonald's or burger king or the fast food restaurants because the costs, you increase that labor cost across america you're going to increase the cost of the hamburgers. >> you got to the point i was making, it's not just the small business owner it's the mcdonald's and the burger kings and walmarts or whatever that you have to calibrate in here. >> so, mika, we got perfect day for richard wolffe to be here," the reselling of president

obama." just his program for obama care continues to plummet. >> it's the latest nbc/wall street journal poll showing stagnating support for the president's landmark health care law. 44% of americans believe the plan is a bad idea. virtually one changed from polling in july. 45% believe it will have a negative impact on the health care system as a whole. and 52% say they believe their personal costs will go up thanks to the law, only 9% think the costs will go down. and finally there remains much confusion about what exactly is in the law, 34% say they don't understand the law very well, 35% say they only have some understanding and 30% say they one it pretty or very well. >> here we have -- >> two weeks until the main portions take effect. >> these years later, you have twice as many americans thinking it will hurt the health care

system as twice who think will help the health care system. we're deeply saddened there's no pictures in here. that's okay. >> i'll do it next time. >> next time. tell us what's happening with their messaging and why has something so important, so central to the obama presidency taken it on the chin so badly? >> this has between challenge all along with this team. you have a president who is out there being the second great communicator and his principal achievement, health care, recovery act, even had latest round with syria which ends up for him in a good place they haven't been able to get the message straight. people are saying how were they so good at campaigning and comes into this situation of governing and the message is all over the place. for all the effort -- >> why is that? i remember we got through the democratic convention, david axelrod came on set, i hugged him, i said you guys don't know

the first thing about governing but you throw a great party. when they are in campaign mode get out of the way. when they are in governing mode it's just whacky. >> in whain mode what the white house folks will tell you we don't have millions of hundreds of dollars to throw at every single message. in the campaign they were faced with incredible challenges most notably with the economy. when they first went in with the focus groups the numbers were awful. it wasn't just the spin. people weren't ready for change they hated what the president was spelling out. to turn that around is a major achievement. having said that the internal politics in the campaign were a disaster. a disaster. and really the dysfunction spilled through in many parts of their messaging that were by no means perfect. they stumbled repeatedly. they took steps to fire

stephanie cutter who was the most effective person. that tells you the dysfunction. myth making inside the campaign as successful as it was, has not lived up to reality and that's what's fascinating for me in going back to the campaign and looking at these stories all over again. the message has been a problem all along. when it works it's outstanding, when it fails it's really bad. >> richard, between gun control which you write a lot about in the book, obama care, immigration, syria, the argument from the president and the white house which we heard again over the weekend is i have an obstinate congress that won't allow me to do anything. the argument from the other s e leader is, be a leader. >> the white house isn't happy with this book. they don't want to you read it. they think it's a disaster. and that's just what is it. the story is what it is. one thing they don't like is my interpretation of how the gun

control debate went down. if you look at how they have played it, they say for a start you got to get caught losing on the gun control debate and that may be true in the case of principle but they were not willing to take on members of congress. you personalized the debate around this table. you actually said these individual senators need to look at themselves in the mirror. they weren't willing to do that because they were playing an inside game. they went around the country make being speeches but they weren't putting pressure on individual members of congress because as soon as they got into government they wanted to play the inside game for those few dozen votes and they couldn't get out there and be hard. >> some interesting unexpected dynamics that you write about. i'll read an excerpt here. the press like to call their style no drama obama. a nice turn of phrase that matched the mood of the candidate in 2008.

that all changed with the re-election, the personal tensions started earlier and rapidly worsened. they fought in private and in the open. there was plenty of simmering and often a high boil. the team of rivals rarely achieved a spirit of cooperation and seemed more inclined to bitter, dogged rivalry, the cast of characters had changed and so had the plot. >> at the top of the campaign, jim messina had a terrible relationship with the others. these were people who were professionals -- communications team that were not on speaking terms with itself. >> really? >> they took the decision at a senior level to push stephanie cutter out, one of the single most effective people in the campaign and could not have the guts in the end to tell her about their own decision. you know, there's a leadership question that comes out of that. the secret plot, they get

together at the white sox game to fire her -- by the way all of them men and here she is one of the most profiled, highest profiled woman in the campaign and don't have the balls to tell her they decided to fire her. >> who told her? >> nobody did. they sent people in from the white house. she carried on regardless. they didn't that have balls to take on her or the first lady of the united states. >> that will do it. what about the fight between david and stephanie on cbs? >> you know, a lot of tension between all of these people as they were trying to figure out basically their insecurity, where did they stand in the campaign, who was getting the high-profile and not. david axelrod, ubiquitous on screen, but he didn't reach out

on the screen. they clashed over single tv booking. it was ironic. these two were friends and allies, david axelrod mentored stephanie cutter brought her into the campaign and the white house yet they clashed because of egos, because of insecurities. it was true across the board. they patched it up. axelrod saved stephanie cutter's job. but clashing over a morning show book was extraordinary. >> so, walter, this is second verse same as the verse this happens time and time again. there's something missing from this white house. i don't know if it's -- it's the strong fixer, the jim baker, or, you know, whoever is that person in bill clinton's white house. nobody is at the center. >> you have to remember there

are two big signature things happening right now. syria, and the kicking in of obama care. and both are pretty good, actually. syria turns out right. i know the message is important, but you have to also look at the underlying narrative and what's really happening. and in terms of obama care, on october 1st, you're going to get a lot of young people signing up because they don't have health care. nobody is going to want to take that health care away from them. >> so, when you look at these things introspect both syria and obama care might history look at it differently? >> absolutely. >> we've been talking about it moment by moment and pouring through every painful second of it and i wonder will we get it behind us if it will look very different? >> it will. it will look very different because syria -- we had a coincidence of interest with russia and we figured it out and it worked. secondly, allowing people to get health care will be a signature achievement. people will start signing up.

they will say count me in, sign me up next month and you'll look a little bit silly if you're saying no, no let's take that way from people. >> they are not is going to take health care benefits away from people, and in the very long run as pundits like to say, people will look back and say these were substantial achievements. i think syria was a serious diplomatic achievement for this president and secretary of state kerry. so painful getting there. even for the president's most loyal supporters the recovery act which looking back who can seriously dispute that actually helped save this economy and yet to this day if you ask people did it create jobs they wouldn't say so. they would say they didn't see the benefits of it. the economists would. how long will it take people say it worked even though they are saying they like the benefits. >> walter on syria that it was a

stroke of diplomatic genius or a stroke of luck? >> they have been talk being for quite a while, for more than a year, understanding with russia that we both had two big interests that we shared. one is not to have chemical weapons sloshing around south of russia and in countries that could turn jihadists and we're both against jihadist terrorism. mark halperin's father was a genius in seeing strategic interest. i don't think it was a stumble bum thing, kerry and obama talked to the russians over the years don't we share an interest in stopping jihadist terrorism. what will happen next is we share an interest in iran. in the end, russia does not want a nuclear armed iran barreling around like crazy.

they want to assert their supremacy in the region which is against our interest but somehow or another the shared interest will be more than the divided interests. >> all right, richard wolffe thank you so much. it's out tomorrow, called, "the message, the reselling of barack obama." ashade senator elizabeth warren will be with us. we'll ask her if she thinks larry summers stepping aside is good thing. dick durbin will tell us how congress can prevent a government shutdown. and chuck todd, msnbc's political director. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. peace of mind is important when you're running a business.

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>> what i haven't been willing to negotiate and i will not negotiate is on the debt ceiling. >> the presidents have done it in the past and you have done it in the past. >> no, george. if you look what has never happened in the past is the notion that in exchange for fulfilling the full faith and credit of the united states that we are wiping away, let's say, major legislation like the health care bill. >> so no changes in obama care. >> that's never happened before. when it comes to budgets, we never had a situation in which a party said that, you know, unless we get our way 100% then we're going to let the united states default. >> all right. i don't know what the definition of exclusive is any more but we'll ask chuck that. joining us on set dick durbin

also from washington political director and host of the daily rundown, chuck todd. >> see if people pick up on it. >> all right. fine. chuck, there's a lot of -- we're seeing the president on television a lot. i don't think it's exclusive when he's doing 18 interviews. that's okay. >> i'm exclusively talking with you right now. nowhere else. >> that's true. >> that this is happening. >> undi now understand the definition. he's out there a lot. is that effective? >> he did this interview. they've used sunday show interviews as an opportunity to talk to washington. they don't pretend it's talking to the nation. this is about talking to the acela corridor and they know they are getting hammered in the acela corridor. the president calls it style

difference, stylistic differences when it comes to his handling of syria or the fact that he's got to start the budget fight. so we're about to really begin them. i was surprised there wasn't any chatter about health care since the implementation begins in two weeks. there was no question about that. they know they have -- there was just an inside problem. i hear you guys talking about the messaging problem. they have a messaging problem in the white house. they have a messaging problem in washington and a messaging problem across the country. >> it's interesting they didn't talk about health care. i would like to hear from the president about that. because i think that concept needs it. senator dick durbin you're here. if i had to give people a full understanding in three sentences or less of the law that will go into effect in two weeks what

would you say >> three sentences? first -- >> four or five. >> first, it's going to give people an opportunity to buy health insurance even if they have pre-existing conditions in amounts that will cover catastrophic illnesses like cancer treatments, no limits imposed on the policies. the policies themselves will be better. secondly for people who never had health insurance in their lives and mika i've met them 60-year-old waitresses and others this is their chance to get help if they are lower income to buy insurance on an exchange and finally a basic justice issue, 50 million people without health insurance get sick. and their bills are passed along to everyone else. we want folks to accept their personal responsibility to buy health insurance, it has to more to do, less cost shifting to others. >> one way or another the country pays. what about the argument the cost of businesses, they will be hurt, they will have to fire people, they will have to move people to part time, have to make major adjustments at times

that they are struggling and i'm not talking about companies making big profits i'm talking about middle sized companies trying to get through this economy. >> the business stagnate has happened for years. companies believe it's a good thing for employees and management and good for morale and productivity. i think that continuing effort at least needs to be expanded. using the same model that governor romney used in massachusetts. moving insurance so that it covers more and more people, fewer left by the wayside. >> given the benefits that you just laid out senator durbin when you look at that nbc poll why do you think it is, two things that almost 70% of americans feel they don't know what's in the bill. that's one question. then of the 30% that do know what's inside the bill, vast majority of them don't like it. why do you think that is? >> two things. first, understandable, something this big, this complex, people

initially are resistant to change and fear it. what will it do to my help. it can't help. the government did this to me. it's bound to hurt. that's the reaction to social security, to medicare, to the prescription part d program. second, there's a chorus of nay sayers in the republican party. it's a rich tradition they have. in 1936 when franklin roosevelt came up with social security a filibuster stopped the fdr funding the office and personnel he need to it. the republican candidate for president at that time said my first act in office will be to abolish social security. understand this nay saying chorus is not giving people confidence that it will help them. >> chuck todd? >> the medicare part d is the most recent interesting example because it was on a flip, i remember democrats quietly were rooting for an implementation debacle. they saw it as an opportunity to

embarrass bush and the republicans and win some elections. there was a lot of fear about how is this going to work, the doughnut hole and this and that. the obama administration is hanging their hat on that issue and basically saying, you know what? everybody thought medicare part d when it was implemented was going to be a disaster, things weren't going well and once it began, folks started signing up and they saw that it wasn't as hard as we in the media might have said it was going to be or wasn't as expensive or more people weren't left out and it became more popular. then it went away. but, you know, will republicans really drop health care as an issue as quickly as democrats did as medicare part d kicked in and became popular. that's the question. >> chuck, those of us who supported the concept but voted against the bill basically because it didn't allow a medicare option. so that we could have a public

option in prescription part d. i support extending these prescription drugs to senior citizens. it allows them to live longer more independently. there's this natural uncertainty about something as big as the health care system. this i'll say to the republicans if you think shutting down the government philosophy approach is a great one sit down and quietly talk to newt gingrich who invent this model and lost his speakership over it. it didn't work that well. >> having said that, it's a late in the game for people not to have a concept. >> they have a concept but they are dubious and skeptical about government making it better. we got to prove it. 41 time the house voted to abolish obama care instead of being willing to sit down and work it out. the rest of us should use wisdom to improve. >> senator dick durbin great to

see you. thank you very much. chuck, we'll see you at 9:00 a.m. on the daily run dowdown. coming up john mccain joins us on set in just a moment. also, senator elizabeth warren will be here to talk about larry summers decision to withdraw his bid from the fair chairmanship. first it's the largest salvage job in history. we'll get an update from michelle kosinski on the "costa concordia" cruise ship. that's next when "morning joe" comes back.

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36 past the hour. look at that. crews have begun to raise the wrecked cruise ship the "costa concordia" today. nbc news correspondent michelle kosinski joins us from gilio, italy. >> reporter: the proclamation has been going on for about hour hours and it's moving. this is going exactly to plan to

the millimeter. they got it raised off the rocky rooef it's been resting on. it doesn't look much different than it ever did. if you look closely along the edge of the ship on the white edge we're seeing a dark water line coming up. this delicately calibrated operation needs move slow. it's moving about 10 feet per hour. it will take about 12 hours in total. that's an enormous effort. this is the biggest cruise ship disaster ever. this salvage operation is unprecedented. you know it wasn't that long ago officials were telling us there was maybe a 50-50 chance of this working out. so far at least it looks like it's going excellently. costing about $500 million to do this and that's in addition to the $500 million loss of that ship to carnival. mika? >> all right, nbc's michelle kosinski, thank you. wow. up next senator john mccain

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she's tough. >> john mccain. >> we welcome together -- >> you live long enough -- >> she's fantastic. >> you live long enough. >> like barnacle. >> you're a citizen of the -- >> a fossil. >> i asked him, i asked him about the red sox in '67. he said '67. >> '46 was good. >> '46 was good. >> with us now, senator john mccain. >> hide his own easter eggs.

>> so let's talk about while we still can, let's talk about you and elizabeth warren working together on what? >> restoration of glass-stegle. we've seen continued abuse and misuse of taxpayers insured deposits and risk in business. by the way i'm no populist, but we still have serious problems in arizona on main street, on central avenue, and i notice that profits are at an all time high amongst the financial institutions and my state still has not recovered in any significant way. >> but five years later too big to fail has gotten bigger. >> bigger and more powerful and

we're finding out we're abusing ethanol credits somehow. did you see that in the "new york times." >> larry summers comes into this conversation, after five years he announces he won't continue in his pursuit of being fed chair. is that a good thing or a bad thing? >> it's a decision he should make. it's one of those issues we republicans in general and me in particular have stayed out of because i think it's obvious it's the opposition of democrats that has sunk this nomination. maybe that has somewhat to do with personal relationships, i don't know. i'm sure you could get a more knowledgeable, dick durbin who was just on could have given you a better assessment. >> his letter says he would have faced too much and obviously one of the "new york times" reporters was talking about actually what happened in congress pertaining to syria playing a role potentially.

let's move to syria. you look at the deal as an act of provocative weakness. how so? >> it provokes what has just happened. if you look at the front page of the "wall street journal" this morning, iran yarns dial up the president in syria, the attacks by bashar al assad has dramatically escalated now that he's home free. this is the same guy that the president said two years ago must go. >> two weeks ago we were comparing him to hitler and comparing syria to munich . >> now he'll be a partner with us in dismantling his chemical weapons. if he doesn't then lavrov made absolutely clear that the meeting with john and i quote him, nothing said about this agreement means the use of force. in other words, no matter. they go to chapter 7 if bashar

al assad fails they go the u.n. and chapter 7 which is for our viewers and many of them don't know, chapter 7 is the ay you enforce through economic sanctions and use military force if necessary. lavrov made it very clear that they would veto that. so what's the motivation here? so i think it's both weak and provocative and has already provoked bashar al assad into the heaviest attacks we've seen -- >> the "wall street journal" says iran ramping up support. >> do you believe the president's initial assessment assad must go? >> absolutely. >> going back looking at it, how would you have gone about taking him out of power. >> two years ago i would have helped the free syrian army before any of this jihadists came in. they still aren't getting the weapons they need.

>> why not? because we're told they were going to. why are they not -- the president himself said they would get them. >> i don't know. the president of the united states told me and lindsey graham in the oval office there were three objectives. one the greatest chemical weapons opportunity, two support the syrian army and three change the momentum so bashar al assad would have a negotiated departure from syria. the president doesn't mention those last two provisions that he told lindsey graham and i he favored and as long as bashar al assad is in power i believe there's going to be more atrocities. >> i think it's very important that we drew this line about chemical weapons because it is a total violation of so many aspects of warfare. but hundred thousand people have been killed, another 1,000 this week.

mainly children are refugees. we talk about american war, we're in there, i watch you in the morning talk about that. you think that these kids that are refugees are not war weary. you think these women who have been gang raped aren't? do you think over 100,000 have been killed and families are growing weary? >> you can make the moral case, you can also make the strategic case which i don't think we've been able to in a lot of other wars in the past 20 years and that is syria is not contained in of itself. we have ra refugee crisis spilling over to the borders. i would be surprised whether it's turkey or jordan, i would be surprised if the king of jordan -- >> the king of jordan has said publicly that he doesn't think he can remain in power with this kind of instability.

lebanon is, obviously, a conflict going on there. most importantly iraq. iraq has turned into an al qaeda sanctuary, moving back and forth between iraq and syria. they had more people killed since 2008 in iraq. so, it is a regional conflict. it started out as peaceful demonstrations. it is now a regional conflict. and if iran wins what lesson is that for other countries, including as far as away as north korea. go ahead, mike. >> to your point about the weapon shipments, when you ask, you're told that the difficulty, one of the difficulties in getting weapons into the free syrian army is we don't have the arm ground intel to know exactly who are getting the weapons. good guys or bad guys. you have been on the ground. >> i disagree. >> what's your take. >> the saudis have been able to get weapons, not enough but

weapons to the free syrian army and those weapons have not fallen into the hands of al qaeda. two points. one syria people are moderate. high left literacy rate of any country. >> are they still there, though? >> the majority of the people are. >> two years ago, for people at home that hear that might be stunned. people in damascus, cia guys say i should drive you into damascus like two, three years. your crazy? he said they love americans. >> think now they are bitter and disi dis disillusioned. a young woman said senator mccain you see these thousands of children. they will take revenge on those people that they feel didn't help them and abandoned them. we have a long term problem. back to your previous point. the syrian people are moderate.

they will not live under some foreign jihadist. is there some problems if bashar al assad left and we have to then moderates get rid of all of these jihadists that are flowing in from all over not just from the middle east? yeah. is it complicated and difficult? is the status quo acceptable? there's no good answer. it would be easier to secure these chemical weapons sites. it's a tragedy. great tragedy that's going on and i wish every american could visit one of these refugee camps. >> senator, you made a strong argument but there wasn't the support in this country for strikes. there wasn't support around the world for strikes and there wasn't the votes in congress. who stands with you on this? >> you know, i felt a little lonely from time to time.

i was reading a book recently called "brothers in arms." harry truman's approval rating sunk down into the 20s during the korean war. he vowed to public opinion the world would be a different place if we lost in korea. there are times when leaders have to stand up and frankly when others have to say what they believe and if it costs you politically -- as you know i had some very interesting town hall meetings back in arizona, but that's what you're supposed to do. >> bill clinton chided the president when he was with tony blair talking about how sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions. we're war weary as a nation. a point i keep making we sent troops to bosnia, to kosovo, to iraq, to afghanistan.

in this case with syria, those you get syria, you got iran, you got north korea. i'm sorry, i call everybody else rivals. those three countries don't consider themselves rivals of the united states they consider themselves our sworn enemies. when one much these three rivals are in a position that they are in using chemical weapons, i wonder if we aren't all like the generals that are fighting the last war and not doing enough? >> first of all in kosovo, we didn't put boots on the grounds, we bombed kosovo for 78 days. and i would say those are successful ventures when you look at the long term consequences. i can say no boots on the ground. if bashar al assad succeeds and everybody is now believing that that's the case but also mr. putin is now in a place that he's not ever been ever, the

russians haven't been in since 1970 that's disturbing particularly with that piece in the "new york times." >> will you write an answer? >> yes. >> you have to come back and talk about that. >> i would love to. >> i could just mention finally there's no good options here but to do nothing is the worst option. and i hope that we have not sent a message to people all over the world that, including our adversaries and bad people that we're not willing to do the right thing.

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>> look at this! >> how do we? whoa! i just -- i don't know. i don't know what to say.

welcome back kotter. what is it, joe? help me. is it burt reynolds? >> i think it's freddie fisher. >> tom selleck. >> in the school yards. oh, my gosh. >> we are not going to do that. okay. elizabeth warren is coming up later. that will be good. thank god. could you do something about that? >> all right, what else do you have coming up? >> are that's it. that's all i have to say. we'll be right back.

>> folks in washington like to grade in style. had we rolled out something that was very smooth and disciplined and linear, they would have graded it well even if it was a disastrous policy. woe know because that's how they graded the iraq war. >> this doesn't change president bush? >> what it says is i'm less concerned about style points, i'm much more concerned about getting the policy right.

>> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 on the west coast. >> keep the windows open and don't go to work. your boss will understand, right? >> that said, mark halprin and in washington, annie lawry. good to have ow board this morning. let's get to the news, shall we? president obama will deliver remarks from the rose garden, mag the five-year anniversary of the financial crisis. he is expected to highlight gapes in housing and jobs while the economy is still recovering for the great recession. former u.s. treasury secretary larry summers has with drawn his name for consideration for the federal reserve. >> we will continue in a second, but he feels that the white house left him out hangi ining

dry. >> well, i mean the president had a lot on his plate and spent a fair amount of time on this as are who the people are supposed to work capitol hill. this was a heavy lift because of the pressure on democratic senators. he had three members publicly against it. a third of the democrats for yellin who i would bet won't get the job. the president did something presidents rarely do. he caved. he would like a chance to pick larry summers. he said fine. >> the "new york times" reports that the crisis in syria may have played a role in this. you write in part this. the president's inability to rally congressional democrats persuaded mr. summers that his most important audience the senate could not be won over.

he concluded the white house was unlikely to overcome opposition from many of the same democrats who view him as an opponent from stronger financial regulation and his letter reviews that. >> absolutely. what you saw here is a rebel yon from the left. there were a couple of senators that were not going to be won over. they really had not asked john tester whether he would support larry summers until friday. he said no. because the committee is 12-10, you need 12 votes. you would have to bring over three republicans. that would be extremely difficult and democrats more than anything else did not want to do the horse trading that would be necessary to get larry summers oust committee, let alone win a full senate vote. there was a sense that the obama administration probably mishandled this a little bit. they left him out there.

president obama himself addressed it, but there was not a lot of strategy to get them through. >> let's move on to obama care. the "wall street journal" poll shows stagnated support for the health care well. not well. >> i was pulling for him. >> 44% of americans believe it's a bad idea. 45% believe it will have a negative effect on the health care system. >> keep that up. this is supposed to be the landmark piece of legislation for barack obama. a lot of the rest have been saying that this is about health care for all americans and this is the right thing to do. that's stunning that almost two times as many people believe it's going to have a negative impact on the health care system as positive. those numbers are just dismal.

>> they are dismal, but the act itself is not truly implemented. we will find out whether it's going to have a negative or positive impact in the coming year. not right now i would think. this is people's perceptions of the coverage we see. there is a lot of noise about the health care act. you hear from opponents more than proponents. >> everybody is asking for an exemption because they led into this and realize it will be bad for the businesses and bad for the workers. it will be bad for their unions. the president of course denied the union exemption. >> people are lying to poll stores. 30% claim they understand it.

we are supposed to follow it for a living. the president faces a huge choice and wants to talk about the middle class. the president interviewed over the weekend and talking about it. they like to focus on how to reshape the american economy for the middle class. if they wanted to get the health care law better understood, he will have to spend time hugging that achievement and that's a risk because it's not popular. >> the entire underlining moral point of it is that everyone is covered. it needs to be done. >> the people who wrote the legislation can't explain it. >> nancy pelosi famously said we need to pass it so we will understand what's in it. here we are two years later. >> i'm sure she is ready. >> nobody understands it. people on the hill don't understand it. >> people seem to understand how much it will hurt them.

they understand that. but they don't understand how it works and covers people? >> experts go to businesses on capitol hill and in congress and say hey, congresswoman, if we are held to the dictates of o pamma care, this is what's going to happen. you will lose this person and that person because you will lose your best people. they do understand that. this suggestion all along and i said it all along, this suggestion you will be able to add 30 million or so and be all these wonderful things and dandelions will grow in everybody's back yard on a cold snowy day. the president promised everything good would happen from this. we are not getting the cost

curve for less money. we are just not. the biggest problem seems to be again, i hate to say it because the president will be offended that we are talking about style over substance, but a little bit of style wouldn't be a bad thing if you support the bill. somebody out there that is a champion, who is that person on capitol hill that is a champion that can explain like ronald reagan used to explain the most complex nuclear missile treaties for working class guys in youngstown, ohio. who can do that for obama care? they have to be there somewhere. >> the obama administration feels they haven't done a great job of explaining the law. it does two things. it covers uninsured people and attempts to control costs.

it looks like it will do both of those things. the the cost card is bending. people's deductibles and out of pocket costs are still going up. we can say on a national level, health spending has flattened out, but if you are spending a lot out of pocket, it doesn't feel that way. a lot of big popular things have not come into place and there will be a lot of states that will expand medicaid and take part in other parts of the law. it's still not there. they don't have a lot to point to and they haven't done a good job that are already popular and came into place like lettinging kids up to 26 ststay on their p plan. >> you have 47 kids and they are still on your insurance.

>> would you disagree that those facets of the law might be good? >> they might be good, yes, i do perhaps. >> the acts have fallen on this country and it's all bad. it's ridiculous. >> no such thing as a free lunch. >> i agree completely. it's not easy. you try to pass health care reform. >> as annie pointed out, part of the difficulty is who is going to defend and articulate and explain? is only the president can do that. he has this thing on his plate called syria. how does he switch gears? >> this has been going on for a while and i do agree. >> he landed at jfk. >> we agree about the sign up deals. >> the controls with the president said it will. he won't need style points. the scariest number in the poll that flashed up a while ago, no

one thinks it's going to pend the cost curve. even people who worked on it said we think it will bend the cost curve. >> >> we had some and early states had positive signs and others not. we will see. >> we want to get to this story in colorado. it is unbelievable. president obama has declared a major disaster in colorado where the relentless rain has been hammering parts of the state. more than 1,000 people are unaccounted for. five people confirmed dead with the death toll continuing to rise. rescue crews are continuing to turn things around. they have been hampered by rain that won't stop. >> weather it horrible. the helicopters are not able to fly. that really makes it hard for us to get our people in and get

other people out. >> while the number of people unaccounted for soared to more than 1200, they do not expect to find that many dead. it is based on people unable to reach family members at this hour. the flooding spread to 15 counties in colorado. 1500 homes have been destroyed and 17,500 other homes are seriously damaged. close to 100 bridges are damaged or destroyed. the rain and flooding wreaking havoc across the state and likely costing hundreds of millions to repair the damage. >> how can we ever recover from this? i know exactly. inch by inch. mile by mile. community by community. >> wow. >> let's go to bill karens who joins us now. is there relief in sight?

>> for the most part, we started on thursday and friday talking about the flash floods and thought it was isolated. we kept getting the downpours and the ground was saturated. we spread river to river and canyon to canyon and the bridges washed out. it will take a year or two to repair the infrastructure. five confirmed fatalities and 16 inches of rain. this is the foothills near denver. this is not miami, florida. they can't deal with that rain. they call this a 1 in 1,000 year rain. thousands unaccounted for. about 1,500 homes destroyed and 17,000 damaged. the forecast does look better. it will clear out. in this portion of the country in the rockies and the foothills, winter comes early. they get their first snows in october and november. a lot of communities are isolate and they won't have the roads

repaired. they tell them you won't survive the winter by yourself. some people may be out of their homes for months. >> thank you. up next on "morning joe," we will ask elizabeth warren about larry summers and who she thinks should be the next chair. a pivotal moment. 50 years later, al sharpton joins you us from the bombing of the church in birmingham, alabama. he was friends with one of the victims. more "morning joe" when we come back. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection

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>> 19 past the hour. joining us now from capitol hill is senator elizabeth warren. good to have you on the show. we have mark halprin and brian shackman talking about years later after the financial collapse. >> we have a partner on. >> senator mccain was on earlier. he had great things to say about you. >> i will say great things about him too. can we talk about that? i would love it. >> talk about how you and john mccain came together and we won't tack in short hand. explain what you and john mccain want to do regarding what the real impact is. >> will you tell not to talk in short hand, i will start back to

1790. >> can you just explain what that is. >> we had a big booming bust. banks used to fail roughly about every 15 years and we hit the great depression and put real reforms in place. one separated boring banking like your checking account and savings account from what goes on on wall street. whatever the high pay off bets are. that gave us a half century of economic peace. we built the middle class this. country got stronger and richer and did terrifically. starting in the 1980s, they started poking holes in it. finally repealed it in 1999. the big financial institutions took the risky part in wall street and they put it all together. that's part of what helped them

get bigger and more concentrated and helped lead to the crash. what john mccain and i along with maria cant well and angus are proposing is no, let's take them apart again. we need a 21st century act. bottom line is banking should be boring. you want to do wild and crazy things, do it on wall street. >> go. we can go there to wall street five years later. give us a sense of some of the positive gains we have made and where we have gotten worse. >> we probably should start every conversation is we didn't end up in the great depression. we were right on the edge of the cliff and people were worried. that cost us $14 trillion with a t. that's about $120,000 for every family in america. think about that.

people lost their pensions. people lost their homes and their jobs. the real economy has not fully recovered. we put new reforms in place and dodd frank has great reforms. they help a lot. they don't get the whole job done. where we are now is again, back to the big financial institutions. the four biggest financial institutions in the country are now 30% bigger than they were five years ago. >> it is unbelievable. >> we have got to deal with too big to fail. it puts the whole system at risk. you love this part. there studies showing because they are believed to be too big to fail, they will get a better deal in the market place. that means they are getting a

subsidy of about $83 billion a year because effectively they got a free insurance policy paid for by you, the taxpayers. >> i have a hundred questions that i don't have time for so i will ask one. something we talked about a lot is access to credit for the people that truly need it and can truly pay it back. how do we in a realistic way get the middle class and get small business able to access credit? >> boy, you have hit the nail on the head on this one. let me talk about small business credit for a minute. it is so powerfully important to job creation and growing the small businesses. one of the things we are seeing is in the banking industry, you see more concentration in the banking industry and the largest institutions have hold back dramatically on small business

lending. it's left to the community banks and the credit unions and the smaller institutions. the problem is that they have gotten squeezed. they have gotten squeezed because they have to pay more for capital than the too big to fail banks. they are hit hard by the regulations and have been gobbled up by the institutions and the fallout have a hard time getting advice so credit. that's a real problem and the reminder on the banking system. the pieces are related to each other. the consequences are having four large financial institutions that are 30% bigger than five years ago is not only about risk to the system. your question really identifies, it's also about a drag on small business lending. that's a real problem.

>> we have mark halprin with us. i am freddie mercury. a little off broadway, but anyway. >> senator, what's your sense of why larry summers's nomination is not going forward and what do you think the moral is for the president as he looks for a fed chair? >> i don't think it's any secret that larry was not my first choice. >> was he your eighth choice? >> was he your tenth choice? >> he's a brilliant economist who made many terrific contributions to the field of economics and i have no doubt he will continue that in the future. i think the president is working through a difficult decision. it's a reminder of the experience of the federal reserve chair. we talk about monetary policy and we should. putting enough money out there to try to keep the economy going

forward. the rest of the conversation is about regulatory policy as well. the federal reserve chair plays a very important part in that as well. i think the president is taking his time and thinking through this. we are having a good and thoughtful discussion which is a good thing to have in washington. >> senator, i believe that larry summers called you in the past few weeks to talk about his pending nomination. did that call occur and did you speak and what is the root of your opposition to larry summers? >> of course we have spoken. recently. we had a good and thoughtful conversation. janet yellin will i hope make a terrific federal reserve chair and i hope she is nominated. she has great experience and great judgment. i think she will make a terrific federal reserve chair. the president will make his decision. >> the root of your opposition

to larry summers, what is it? >> as i said before, i think we have different world views about the economy and about regulation. right now the president is going to make, i hope, a good decision on the federal reserve chair. we are all here to help him in any way we can. >> all right. elizabeth warren, it is always great to have you on the show. coming up, a pivotal moment on the civil rights struggle. a bomb ripped through an african-american hurch in birmingham, alabama killing four little girls. reverend al sharpton helps us reflect on the anniversary. kocondoleezza rice was friends with one of the victims. back s. we believe it can be the most valuable real estate on earth. ♪

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>> members of the ku klux klanner to through a baptist church in alabama killing four little girls and becoming a landmark moment in the struggle. host of politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. the reverend recently spoke with condoleezza rice who was friends with one of the little girls

killed. >> now in birmingham during the civil rights movement, you knew some of the four girls who were bombed? >> i knew denise very well. denise's family was in our neighborhood. her dad was the photographer at everybody's birthday party and everybody's wedding. i will never forget that awful day in september when 16th street baptist church was bombed. somebody called the church to say a bomb had gone off. we felt the explosion. >> really? at your church? >> right. my dad's church was only about three miles from that. it was like the ground shook. i remember soon we were starting to hear these girls had been killed and the names came out and she was one of those little

girls. for kids in birmingham my age, i was 8, how can these people hate us so much? what is this? >> that interview and your special friday night was extraordinary. that interview more than anything encapsulated where we were 50 years ago and where we are today. condi rice is good friends of one of the girls who were killed and talking about 50 years later with the seal of the president of the united states behind her. >> it really does, joe. when you look at fact that those little girls could have been anything in life. then you look at the fact that know one of their friends became secretary of state. >> nobody would have believed that 50 years ago that any of those little girls could have grown up -- nobody said one of those girls could have been secretary of state.

it happened. >> including condi rice. no one would have thought she would have done that. i think the real story with the 50th anniversary of the march on washington, the birmingham bombing is to see we have come a long way. that gives us the strength to finish the journey. i don't think we are there yet, but we are not where we were. >> can we send a message to haters and extremists and let them know? it was this bombing and these killings and this extreme act that actually created the new world that they were fighting against the most. if these four girls had not been killed, the struggle may have taken a lot longer. >> i'm sure it would have. >> it woke up the nation. it woke up white middle class voters from california to connecticut and from florida all across the nation. it's when everyone said enough.

this is not alabama's problem. it's america's. >> i think you are right. i was only 8 years old at the time, but i talked to others that were involved and you have to remember this bombing happened 2 1/2 weeks after the march on washington and the i have a dream speech. in the aftermath, those of us who are younger read history and think after i have a dream, it didn't happen. that's when america said wait a minute. after this nonviolent march, you are not only going to bomb a church, you are going to kill little girls. thou we have to deal with this. they lost their lives, but it helped to change america. most americans were not going to live where houses are worship were being bombed and innocent children being bombed. they were going to sunday school. >> killed going to sunday school. >> you know dr. rice before this

interview, but she is one of the great things about that interview. i recommend people watch the whole thing. she is not normally that public and that emotional and reflective. >> i met her a couple of times and when president bush would have us to the white house. when we were doing the special that you referred to, we wanted to interview her. to my surprise she agreed. when i sat down with her, i got the impression she wanted to say a lot of things she never said. the contrast of her and i, we were like polar opposites politically. she was very emotional and very moving. i was moved myself. i flew out three days before the march on washington and took the red eye back. i was calling everybody interested. you are not going to believe this interview. i never heard her say the ground moved. get that personal.

it really showed that all of us, republican, democrat, it didn't matter where we were. we had to celebrate the moment that we moved forward. i thought it wouldn't have been better to have people that were the opposites. no one would have that kind of conversation, but we really understood where we have come as a country. >> it was the "new york times" that had a piece on this over the weekend. we talked about the murder of these four little girls did trigger the reaction and the developments after that that really led to people saying this is wrong. having said that, family members and those who were injured feel differently. they are still very angry and wish they had not lost their family members in such a way. it's important to keep that in mind. >> absolutely. these are their children. these are their daughters and cousins and nieces and that pain

never goes away. the sacrifice they are seeking, they should get that. you have the overall which really triggered the progress in the country and the personal pain thaw never get away from. >> a little girl lost her eye. awful. >> what's interesting is we are now part of a time where the culture is so accelerated we think of history as last friday night. this was such a moment in the history of this country occurring a month after the march on washington and two months prior to president kennedy's death. the impact of this looking back was perhaps the first racially motivated crime. a horrendous crime. a murder of four young girls that impacted the nation north of alabama. north of mississippi. north of the south where these things occurred regularly on a smaller scale. this was the first time the

nation said wow. >> and the president at the time responded. i think you are absolutely right. we sometimes just look at yesterday's news as history. some things really changed us. i think that leaders, we can't forget those that suffered personally. these girls were not leading the crusade. we go to sunday school. these family his never been in many ways made whole. >> reverend sharpton, thank you so much and we will see you at 6:00 on politics nation. >> i want to thank joe for tweeting. he's the reason we got such a great audience. >> i sat there and we have all been part of these things. when it starts out, you have the big names. you hold your breath. like magic. i love magic, but can he deliver for 15 minutes on tv? it was unbelievably moving.

his story of inspiration and the hard work talking being doing janitorial duties and he just said, one day i'm going to be a ceo. and tyler perry. what a great message that tyler perry had for everybody. talking about hard work. there is one point where he talked about conjuigating a verb. >> he was talking about lifting up your pants. >> he said something about i'm not interested in wearing your pants down and looking tough. i'm interested in conjuigating a verb. >> this is live. >> stevie wonder. one guest after another. it was such a positive message of hope. you know what, it really was great. >> thank you. we noticed your tweets. everybody was crazy about joe's

tweets. it helped. >> the wall street futures are way up with the news that larry summers is dropping out of fed chair. before the bell when "morning joe" returns.

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along the way, rethink how you're invested, and refocus as your career moves forward. wherever you are today, a fidelity i.r.a. has a wide range of investment choices to help you fine-tune your personal economy. call today, and we'll make it easy to move that old 401(k) to a fidelity i.r.a. . >> 45 past the hour. this is before the bell with kelly evans, futures up sharply after larry pulled his name from the fed chair consideration. >> a major move and there a couple of other things going on. the quieting in syria, but it was the big news that larry

summers reached out to the president and withdrew his name from contention. his second term is up in january. it's around this time -- here's the interesting thing. a lot of people in markets this seen larry summers not necessarily just himself, but relative to the other people like a janet yellin who might take over as more hawkish. maybe he was less inclined to do as much stimulus like someone else a yellin might do. as it became more clear that summers was the president's top choice, we had seen stocks wobble and interest rates move up. most moves could be attributed to economic growth. there was definitely a little bit of summers caving a shadow over the market. now today all of that unwinding in the last 24 hours sending the german market to new highs and we are seeing notes. >> i might take this personally.

even the german markets go up if i withdraw my name. >> they are making a lot out of potential low nothing. this was a lot of speculation over what he might do. there might be less space than any supposed. this might be more of a story politically about what this means if for president obama and who he names next. if it is janet yellin, she has seen someone who will build consensus at the fed and be more cautious about removing the stimulus in place now. if it's anyone else and it may be, you might expect them to assemble. >> brian shackman is here with a question. >> in terms of the fed, she covered everything. i had a question about a minute and a half ago. >> we will see you later. >> she covered everything? gosh. >> they think he was going to

wind down quantitative easing sooner so people could stay in the market. people thought he would be a little bit more lax on regulation, but people don't care as long as it's easy. >> people say why is it they didn't think they would move through. opposition came from democrats. there is the letter that congressman signed saying they were worried about his stance against derivatives. there were the remarks he made about women versus men the fact that he was president of harvard. it was seen as a challenge, but to your point, some had been concerned about how tough of a stance you take. you can argue in order to save face. he would have been more so. it was the academics. 350 of them signing a note and endorsing yellin. it's a tough one. >> cnbc's kelly evans. thank you very much. up next, we will get a view from the sky of the devastating

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update now on colorado. five people are dead and 1,000 unaccounted for after massive floods washed away communities in and around the boulder area.

conditions are improving allowing for search and rescue operations to resume. nbc took to the sky to tour the flood zone. >> about 500 feet above the ground level, the damage is extensive. wow! look at this. it's going to certainly take months to clean up this damage. the flood zone is actually about the size of the entire state of connecticut. we are over boulder here. the population used to be about 100,000, but 15,000 people are in the evacuation zone. many of these folks can't go home. the damage is just too much. rock slides, mudslides, so many disasters. so much devastation. there simply too many damaged homes to count. the focus remains on rescuing

and evacuating thousands of people on the ground. one official said they haven't seen this many americans rescued by the air since katrina. at one point 400 children were rescued. the military is going door-to-door and telling folks who refused to leave, this may be their best and last chance to get out. this is the river that weaves through a residential neighborhood. it has overtaken banks and flowing over roadways and bridges and wiped out this section of town. there is 150 miles of roadway washed off the map that are compromised or simply under water. you wonder how they will be able to rebuild and how long it will take. >> how can we recover from this? i know exactly. inch by inch. mile by mile. community by community.

they are taking this stuff bad. >> absolutely devastating. five dead. 1,000 unaccounted for. they do that is people for the most part that can't get in touch with loved ones. hopefully the death toll won't rise too much. we will be following that story all day. up next, what if anything did we learn today? >> good monday to you. the stories continue with the traj doe in colorado. the epic flooding. isolated chances of showers, but light rain moving through should

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>> welcome back. this is the queen song. one man freddie mercury. that is probably the highlight. let's show the four faces. fox's friend. this is what we are stuck with. >> exactly. much better. where is he? the other way. look at this. >> all in one episode. >> looking good. much better. i like it better. >> which one do you like? >> i like the grizzly adams. >> you look fantastic.

this is what you stay with. >> they said the stock markets are discounting mechanisms. 175 points in the dow. >> i like the look of mark where he looks like he fled to brazil. >> the 90 second u.s. senators. only three. >> three in the center. >> elizabeth warren and she and john mccain are paprtners. >> chuck and "the daily rundown" is next. >> we have breaking news right now. going on blocks from capitol hill reports an active shooting scene at the washington navy yard. unfolding as we speak. we will have details as soon as we can. we will get them to you. this morning, summer's end. presidob