right now. .pl "morning joe" sta right now. pl "morning joe" star now. "morning joe" starts right . our society that we as americans have to work to try and eradicate. there's something wrong here when we have these multiple shootings, these multiple injuries, there's something wrong. and the only thing i can say is we have to work together to get rid it. i would like you to put my trauma center out of this mess. i really would. i would like not be an expert on gun shots. that was the chief medical officer crystallizing after we got off the air yesterday. this morning we're learning more details about the lone gunman that went on a deadly shooting

rampage at the washington naval yard. 12 people killed. aaron alexis was killed in a fire fight with police officers. he moved to d.c. recently to work as a civilian subcontractor for hewlett-packard. he was discharged in 2011 over a pattern of misconduct and that a gun incident in 2010 in texas played a role. >> he was reportedly arrested in seattle after he fired three shots at a car belonging to construction workers. alexis claimed he had a black out fueled by anger after being mocked by workers happen detectives were sold by his father saying he had anger management problems and alexis helped out with rescue attempts during the september 11th attacks. others who knew him in texas said he was a peaceful and

prayerful buddhist. >> good man. good man. you know, funny guy, you know. party guy. >> we were never afraid of him. >> he's one of my family too. he's a good guy from what i know, you know. i can't say what he did. but when with me no sign he was going to shoot someone. >> he never come out of his room much. he played a lot of online glams where there was shooting all the time and we were joking about that sometimes because they were like, you know, his computer screen was big and like wow, you're shooting people a lot. we would joke about that. >> this is something that nobody expected to happen. so, you know, i just want to let everybody know whoever got hurt family of victims, the alexis

family our heart goes out to you. we apologize for lotion a loved one. >> with us on set this tuesday morning, mike barnacle, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine, john hilman and jim. >> reporter: officials are still shaking their heads what drove aaron alexis to do what he did and how did he initially enter that navy yard past armed security guard with at least one weapon? but all the focus yesterday was stopping the killing, getting the shooter, it was sheer chaos. morning rush hour in the nation's capital pierced by the wail of sirens. 8:15 the first reports that a gunman was on a shooting rampage

inside the sea systems command at the naval yard crackling across fire dispatched radios. >> we have a report on the fourth floor a male with a shotgun, multiple shots fired, multiple people down. >> reporter: patricia ward was in line at the cafeteria when the first gun shots rang out. >> three gun shots straight in a row, pop, pop, pop. three seconds later it was pop, pop, pop, pop. so it was a total of seven gun shots. >> reporter: for sean carroll it was surreal. he couldn't believe what he was hearing. >> i was rng and i heard gun shots and holy cow. could have been way above me but i wasn't stopping to think what was going on. >> eyewitnesss said the shooter took up a position on the fourth floor overlooking a massive atrium from the center of building. he opened fire with an automatic rifle and the breakfast crowd at

a food court and others on a third floor balcony area. the gunman confronted a man in the fourth floor krird and shot him at point blank range. most of the victims never saw their attacker. >> here's a shooter in your building and then i heard two more shots. he was shot in the head and did not look like he made it. >> 12 people were killed in the shooting spree, several injured including a police officer. the gunman identified as a former naval reservist, aaron alexis was also killed in a shootout by authorities. >> the response by uniformed plaintiffs from both the met metropolitan police department was brought down. >> the capitol was closed and nationals baseball game

postponed. air traffic from nearby national arraignment suspended. helicopters airlifted the wounded to the hospital. as navy yard employees streamed out of the complex many colleagues were helping each other to safety. at the white house president obama paid tribute to the fallen. >> they are patriots and they know the dangers of serving abroad, but today they faced the unimaginable violence that they wouldn't have expected here at home. >> from the sound of it and you talk to military experts they say this didn't sound like a random shooting because almost everyone he shot was killed, 12 were killed as we know. the gunman himself was shot in a standoff. at least two or three standoffs with police. so he fought the death. the big question again remains he patiently entered the navy yard with a shotgun he purchased in virginia, shot one of the security guards and grabbed a pistol and perhaps the assault

rifle at that time and then made his way into building 197 the navy sea systems command where he began his deadly rampage, mika. >> so there are concerns that did he have yearance or did he just shoot his way in? >> he did have clearance. this is where the issue of contractors and subcontractors has re-arisen. he was working as a subcontractor for hewlett-packard on some kind of i.t. service. he and several other people that came from texas and they had not even begun the work yet when he entered with this i.d. card, confronted a guard, shot him, apparently and then moved his way into the building. now, people are asking well how did he get that security clearance if he had all these other offenses. but he was never charged in any of the other shooting incidents in seattle or two of them, actually in fort worth.

>> was he dishonorably discharged from the navy? >> he was separated. not dishonorably discharged. there's several levels of separation. after a shooting incident in fort worth where he shot a gun through the ceiling where the neighbor above him the navy then said we're done with this guy. >> he had two gun incidents and separated from the navy and it seems safe to ask two questions one, how did he get another gun a few weeks back in virginia. and two, why would they let this man be a defense contractor and walk on a base? >> again, it goes back to fact that he didn't actually have a criminal record involving guns. now, apparently the seattle prosecutor is saying, you know, the paper work was lost. that case never came to the prosecutor. >> but, jim, he was separated those. >> he was.

exactly. now that should have appeared on his record but even that, you can be separated for a whole host of reasons and this is another enigma in this system there's privacy regulations when it comes to a person's service record. it appears that he -- look a subcontractor to a contractor to a contractor, i'm sure those security clearances get a cursory glance and people don't delve too deeply into low level contractors. look at edward snowden, for example, that's the best case where he slipped through the cracks. >> stay with us if you will. mike barnacle there's so many questions that need to be asked. again, he's separated from the navy. and, obviously he's separated from the navy from all the reports we've seen over the past 24 hours and perhaps they are

wrong. you know what? having two gun incidents where you're firing guns off at people, and then you're separated from the navy. you got to ask why was the guy -- why was he allowed to go back into the navy as a contractor. >> to work for the navy as a defense contractor. >> you don't want this guy on your base. >> there's a lit any of questions. >> same thing with snowden. you know, are we really -- are we going to don't give these people lower security clearances because they are defense contractors and subcontractors? the results are disastrous. >> up have the security clearance issue, clearly a mentally ill person with access to guns. that's a lethal combination and that's not just yesterday, not just this incident, it's too many incidents in this country. >> less go to luke russert. luke, good morning.

tell us a little bit about that area, the community at navy yard, what the set up is, how he might have gotten in there. >> reporter: well good morning. one thing that's been lost on the american public so far when you hear the term navy yard you expect a base that's isolated from the community. and this is very much the opposite here. this is in the mid. a thriving neighborhood in d.c. that's experience ad rebirth in the last few years after the nationals ballpark has been built further down the street. you have workers here that number in the thousands. many of them are middle class folks, hard-working folks that come from the surrounding areas. they are not all military. you have a lot of civilian folks who work in the building behind me. two of those victims that made it to the hospital at washington general are getting the status of designee so they can get all their treatment at walter reed. those are the type of people you

have. today a lot of them will be going back to work if they are operational personnel, those deemed essential they can get in there. some folks that i've spoken to in the d.c. area have put toward me, willie, this is the biggest single isolated incident for washington in terms of loss of life really since 9/11. and we had the sniper shootings which are horrific but that came out over a few weeks time. this in terms of a single day impact have rattled the community in terms of a real body blow, if you will. >> luke, talk to me about the security there as we look at the lay out. a lot of people think about a military installation heavily fortified, heavily guarded. what would it take for a guy to get in. >> reporter: it depends on who you are and if you have one of these badge, you're often allowed through. much like the united states

capitol. if you take your car into the garage, the raburn garage where joe used to work you show your i.d. and let you in your car. they do a cursory search. if you have that i.d. they wave you in. this individual had that i.d. hat the first step to get you through the door. you're seeing enhanced security all the folks starting to come in to the navy yard, the gentlemen from the navy are out there searching their vehicles and making sure they have the proper credentials. in d.c. for most of the government buildings you show the i.d. you're brought up to the next stage. >> thank you. we'll be getting updates from both of you throughout the morning. in a speech yesterday president obama addressed the navy yard shooting praising the first responders. but he quickly turned to his planned speech on the economy where he criticized republicans for threatening a government

shutdown. >> at the moment republicans in congress don't seem to be focused on how to grow the economy and build the middle class. i say at the moment because i'm still hoping that a light bulb goes off here. so far, their budget ideas revolve primarily around even deeper cuts to education, even deeper cuts that would gut america's scientific research and development, even deeper cuts to america's infrastructure. i cannot remember a time when one faction of one party promises economic chaos if it can't get 100% of what it wants. that's never happened before. but that's what's happening

right now. are some of these folks really so beholden to one extreme wing of their party they are willing to tank the entire economy? just because they can't get their way on this issue? are they really willing to hurt people just to score political points? >> when asked about the tone of the speech white house press secretary jay carney defended it saying the speech was necessary since congress must act to avoid a government shutdown. he said no consideration was given to rescheduling it. there were a couple of pieces and there were opinion pieces on this saying it was a little inappropriate. is that fair? >> it's kind of fair in the sense that we're "around the table" you can imagine if a similar thing had happened under george w. bush that a lot of people would be outraged that he

did not stop and just focus specifically on the tragedy that was happening yesterday. there's so much with the president right now, if you think about this. you can help but think part of his reaction to this still goes back to his frustration over an inability to get anything done and the resistance he encounters when he tries get something done on gun control after newtown. the culture is increasingly sadly inur to these things. some of his frustration at the republican party which is so pervasive now that you almost hear in his lashing out at republicans on the fiscal stuff transference but he's frustrated with republicans over everything but specifically over the fact that there was a horrific tragedy that happened nine months ago in newtown and he tried to move gun control legislation and couldn't get it

done and blames the republican party for that. >> what was going on? what was going on at the time the president delivered this partisan speech? >> he delivered the speech but jay carney, we love jay, we love jay he's a great guy but insists in response yesterday to the question why wasn't it postponed that never came into consideration then there's something wrong with the management. >> willie geist, what was going on at the time the president was talking about republicans liking their hurting people. >> the building was still locked down. they were looking for shooter or shooters. they were looking for bodies people were hiding in lockers. this was a speech about the five year anniversary. let's do it tomorrow or the day after. he did, obviously, talk about it at the top of that speech but as mika said the stage of it --

>> exactly. i was distracted by the people behind him that looked very excited to be there. >> he brought his props along and he had his political speech. it was a harsh, harsh speech from the president of the united states on any day but, you know what? this president is frustrated and there is -- he certainly has every right to do that but on the day while people were hiding, while people were bleeding, while people were dying, while the nation was locked in on this he's talking about harsh partisanship and republicans wanting to hurt people. mike, what is more partisan than not being able to put aside one of these stupid washington battles, never came under consideration. we never considered it. never. there's not one person in the

white house who said right down the block people are dyinging right now and there's a gunman on the loose and there's local schools on shutdown and the capitol is on shutdown and there may abscond or third gunman and, you know what? maybe we'll just give the speech tomorrow. really? nobody even -- nobody even considered that? if you believe jay carney, never came under consideration. it's unbelievable. >> i'm not sure i believe jay carney about that. to say that it had been under consideration would open the door -- my guess is that was not entirely true. >> others in congress were -- >> i can't imagine any other president do this, the ramifications of this. george w.? george w.? can you imagine what certain people at this network in 2006, in '07 or '08 who have done.

at this table can you imagine what mika would be reacting. mika would be killing george w., everybody here on this network would be killing george w., everybody at the "new york times" would be killing george w., every journalist in washington, d.c. would be killing george w. -- >> but also, i mean i think he's put in a horrible position. >> no, he's not. he's president of the united states. he should be smart enough. the guy should be smart enough -- there should be one person to have the guts saying mr. president people are dying, you should not, you need to comfort the nation attack republicans tomorrow. >> are you would think he would have that instinct himself as ceo of the government. >> as the leader of the country you would think that. what is nra saying about this. >> okay. obviously there were members of congress who immediately --

>> we might as well put up the other side. >> the nra has not released an official statement. they posted a message on their website we greve and pray for those who lost their lives and those hurt at the washington navy yard. >> diane feinstein talking about gun control. seriously on the other side. wait a day. wait two days. it necessary for people start tweeting three seconds after shots ring out on both sides of this debate? is it asking too much for a little human decency? do people not think the sun will not rise the next day? on both sides. this happens on both sides. what's wrong with those people, mike? what have their parents not

taught them? what are they lacking? it's like when brice bart died. >> think of two tweeted on either side of the gun issue immediately when this event was still ongoing, and think of what they did and yet think of the impact of what we were watching, the wall to wall coverage on families in newtown, connecticut who relive their tragedy and everyone else. >> or the sikh shooting or

aurora shooting. >> agree with not being vitriolic or gaining political points but it was what i was thinking about, sorry. it was. >> you can think it and you can wait a couple of days before you start making political points over it. >> it's very frustrating to watch these things happen again and again and again. it's becoming kind of obvious what the problem is here. >> we spoke to this. >> we got a lot nor talk about. >> coming up on "morning joe." >> our thoughts and prayers are with those that lost their loved ones yesterday. we can't even going imagine the pain you're is going through this morning, and we certainly -- we will keep you and your family members and your loved ones in our prayers. >> "the washington post" eugene robinson will join us and pete williams and your morning

playbook. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. vo: two years of grad school. 20 years with the company. thousands of presentations. and one hard earned partnership. it took a lot of work to get this far. so now i'm supposed to take a back seat when it comes to my investments? there's zero chance of that happening. avo: when you work with a schwab financial consultant, you'll get the guidance you need with the control you want. talk to us today. guys, you took tums® a couple hours ago. why keep taking it if you know your heartburn keeps coming back? that's how it works. you take some tums®. if heartburn comes back, you take some more. that doesn't make any sense.

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trade in your old device and trade up to america's most reliable network. i've got the good one! i got verizon! that's powerful. verizon. 27 past the hour. time now to take at that look at the morning papers. "usa today" after nearly two years of being submerged off the coast of italy salvage crews raised the wreck of the "costa concordia" after a grueling 19 hour operation. the project is being called the biggest most expensive salvage operation in history costing close to $800 million. the massive ship was pulled by a series of huge jackson cables. it will remain in place for a few more months until it can be further stabilized before being towed away.

from our parade of papers "the washington post," pandora will sell more than $to 30 million shares for capital spending. the news comes as apple plans to launch itunes radio next week. pandora is the most popular internet radio service and has more than 70 million users. >> "new york times" jpmorgan chase will settle a multibillion dollar trading scandal. it will pay $750 billion. fines will be paid to the government agencies in the u.s. and london. the bank's executives will also avoid prosecution. >> the "wall street journal" the highly-anticipated fifth installment of the popular grand theft auto video game franchise went on sale at midnight and is expected to be one of the best selling games of the year. now gta 5 is five years in the

making, features the largest virtual world ever created for the series and $1 billion franchise holds a guinness book record for best selling action video game, sales are expected to past $20 million. it's violent and not a game you want your children to play. >> that's true, actually. >> "boston globe." >> "boston globe," a man honored by police for turning in a bag that contained thousands of dollars. he found the bag and immediately alerted authorities. he handed over more than $2,000 in cash and $40,000 in traveller's checks. the bag was turned over to the rightful owner a tourist from china. >> let's look at a couple of the new york tabs. you got the "new york post" that talks about carnage and then you have the "daily news" same gun different slight talking about the ar-15 and the ar-15 was the

same gun that was used in the newtown slaughters. video games are part of this story too. let's go to willie right now. >> joining us for a look if he playbook mike allen. let's move to politics. bill daley shocked some people when he pulled out of the illinois race. he effectively said i sat down i asked myself is this what i want to do with my life for the next five or nine years and the answer was no. >> this is so surprising. he's so well known to people in politics not because of his famous family in chicago but he was commerce secretary for president clinton, chief of staff for president obama, head of the al gore campaign. what he said in this interview with the "chicago tribune" is that the running is harder than

it looks. he admits that he didn't know what he was in for when he began this process of running and he said he wasn't afraid of losing he was almost afraid of winning. he couldn't imagine spending the next years doing this job. so some people wondered did he think he was going to lose? he was in the democratic primary against the current governor pat quinn. interestingly enough he took shots at quinn on the way out. you would think he would say he's a party guy, well i decided he was okay. he said no i'm convinced that pat quinn the democrat the current governor won't be the next governor. he said he's weak and beatable by a republican or another democrat. >> in fact he's not clearing the way for pat quinn. he said he hopes somebody else gets in. this governor is not that strong that they should fear running against him. let's look at another gubernatorial race up in boston.

martha cokely announcing her bid. everybody will remember her running against scott brown in that special election in 2010. >> martha cokely who is still the attorney general there in massachusetts, running for governor. it's a big field. what's fascinating is the way that she did it. she did it with a video and it's all designed to show that she's changed, that she learned something from her disastrous race against scott brown when she was seen as cold, the one who wasn't going to be out there at fenway working the voters. so we have a video of her out in the subway, out with police and yesterday on a hand shake tour. it was all about showing she has a popular side to her. >> do you think she will show up at fenway this time? >> she's a strong candidate. she has a lot of money. she's run statewide several

times. >> by a second base team. >> mike allen, thanks for a look at the playbook. we'll see you. coming up, president obama takes a shot at republicans over the possibility of a government shutdown. we'll talk to alan simpson of erskine bowles. all-star pitcher jamie moyer joins us with a new memo memoir, "just tell me i can't." sfx: oil gushing out of pipe. sfx: birds chirping.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we're us now former all-star pitcher for the seattle mariners and 2008 champion, philadelphia phillies, jamie moyer," just tell me i can't." the first and obvious question, obviously you have a lovely talented and beautiful wife but how big of a hurdle was it marrying into the digger phelps family. why did you sit down and write this book. you had an incredible career. how many seasons did you pitch? >> 20 something.

>> 20 seasons. which is unheard of in professional sports. >> ah-ha. >> how did you last that long? >> good genes. love the game. had a passion for the game. i still have that same passion. i love being around it. i love being around the competition of it all. and the challenge of winner and challenge of preparation. >> a lot of people love playing the game but they don't play for 20 seasons. was it something way you pitch, the way you prepared that got you through two decades. >> the challenge of people telling me i can't. i grew up that way. grew up in high school, college, professional baseball. being told you can't do this. being told i couldn't. it's part of the challenge. and then preparing and things i learned with harvey during the course of my relationship with him before he passed. and then continuing that and challenging myself to be the best that i could be.

>> sports psychology, how much of a factor, obviously, was a huge factor in your life, but could it be a large factor if it was utilized more properly? >> most definitely. people think oh, we got to change everything. no. it's teaching -- getting to understand who you are and where you come from. and take what skills you have and refine those skills but learning how to, you know, it's preparation. it's all the little things that do you behind-the-scenes. and do you really want to be there. it's reading between the lines. doing a little bit extra work. but what's going to set you apart from the next person. >> what's sets you apart? >> what sets me apart is paying attention detail, wanting to be the best. but watching, paying attention to what hitters do for myself. paying attention to what hitter dose.

their tendencies they have. actually really a lot of it is paying attention as the at-bats is happening. >> obsessing over that. >> wouldn't call it obsessing. just doing my job. >> you say people doubted you from the beginning. they doubted you in high school and in college. why did you ignore them? >> bus i loved the game of baseball. >> so many people get pushed back. >> it's something i had passion to. but it's also something i had success at. i felt that i was good at it. i didn't know that whatever, i would ever fail at this game. so why stop. in life what do we do? we do the things we enjoy or do best. >> you know what else you enjoy doing, having kids. eight of them? >> we do. six biological, two are adopted. >> that keeps you going. barnacle he has more kids than i. that wears me out. >> got to go home. >> might be too late. it might be too late.

>> i'm looking at the back of the book. you topography the easiest and toughest outs. mike schmidt which shows how long you played. bernie williams and manny ramirez. was there one guy and you say never can get out. >> why is he difficult. we joke about it now. we live by each other and it's -- i used to kid him that he should claim me on his taxes. >> we should point out one of the reasons that jamie's career was so long and so successful despite the fact that his fastball, his major league fastball, one lime, digger phelps, jamie moyer is in the car driving up the massachusetts turnpike pulled over for speeding and digger didn't get the ticket because he convinced the state cop that pulled him over that his son in law the car that digger of traveling faster

in the car than jamie. >> thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. the book is just tell me i can't. i love it. i love this story. and when we come back, dr. sacks is with us. what in the world, what do you have? it's a snake. no keep it over there actually. there's a union issue in bringing the snake over here. all right. we'll be right back with jeffrey sachs.

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hill here with us now for the must read opinion pages, economist jeffrey sachs. >> we're very sorry for you that larry summers wasn't picked for fed chair. i know you're upset. >> the world does seem to have been shedding a lot of tears as markets rallied all over the world. >> how would you like to wake up and see markets rallied on your demise. >> there was a lot of enthusiasm. what was stunning is how the prospect of his appointment had unified washington against both sides, both parties. people want a new page and they didn't want to go back to the deregulation, they didn't want to go back to the revolving door, they want somebody with responsibility. >> seems the president was the only person in larry summers corner. i didn't hear anybody in washington or across the country in support of him. >> there wasn't any support and that's what the president finally realized when senators

were falling by the wayside on both sides. there was just no prospect. >> mike, can you answer a question for me and maybe jeffrey you know the answer to this as well. i didn't understand why elizabeth warren who by all accounts all of my sources and i'm sure all of your sources she ran the campaign against larry summers in the senate. but we asked her three times yesterday, you asked her three times yesterday about it, and she didn't -- she didn't take authorship of working around the clock to redetail his nomination. >> what's odd not only taking authorship of the campaign to remove larry summers from contention, but jeffrey, i don't know whether you heard this or watched this, she was asked three different times what is the root of your differences with larry summers and she would not address the root of her differences, which is kind of unusual. >> isn't that strange? >> maybe she has to live with

him in massachusetts? you know, didn't want to get into it. the fact of the matter is there were so many complaints on so many sides. but i think what really did him in aside from all the other issues was that the moment he left the white house this time around, he went straight back to wall street. so this was the revolving door in such a stark and -- without any self-constraint. i think people said stop, enough. and when you see what's happening, you know, for example this new $750 million fine of jpmorgan, wall street has been out of control. the job of the fed chair is to regulate. nobody wanted larry summers regulating something already out of control that he helped to put out of control. we need some grown ups that are going to actually get this place back into the legal column. >> it was an odd way, joe, to go about. if you knew you wanted to be the fed chair and you're larry

summers and leave the white house you immediately seize a job with citi. >> i want to get one mucht read in and bring the conversation back to the tragedy at the navy yard in washington yesterday. of course the president made a statement among other things he said these are men and women who are going to work, doing their job, protecting ourselves. they are patriots and pledge ad thorough investigation. but then went on with his scheduled event and in politico it's written, in tragedies wake obama finds a tone challenge. once again president obama spoke in the wake of a horrific mass shooting this time killings that were carried out near his home, of victims that worked in his government with a crisis that was still ongoing when he stepped to the podium. but the president's handling of the massacre at the navy yard monday contrasted sharply with his response to past tragedies. on monday instead of calling for national unity, obama spent most

of his only public event slamming republicans on budget matters. white house officials did delay the start time of monday's event, but aides say they never considered cancelling his remarks. it's not even clear what benefit the white house hoped to reap in launching a major fall offensive in the middle of a national and local tragedy. cable networks cut away from obama's remarks as soon as he finished talking about the navy yard. it did seem -- i actual lie thought his remarks about the tragedy itself were visually distracting because he was surrounded by people who were smiling. >> the timing of the speech was inappropriate. if you want to play the more cynical an tell message didn't get through. if you were trying to make a point about prbs in the financial sector nobody was paying attention. >> i'm not sure how that

happened. >> i don't understand. >> jeffrey sachs the next big battle and we'll talk about it in days to come, the next big battle obviously is going to be this showdown between republicans and democrats at the white house. and you look at the deficit, we agree about deficits and debt, obviously we've been spending too much, spending unwisely. but this is going to be the next big challenge for washington to figure out if they can come together and make a deal. >> well, they are not coming together on anything. that's clear. i think the republicans have won this battle. the government is on a path of shrinking that's dramatic. people should understand that. we're on a decline right now the likes we haven't seen for half a century. obama signed on to it. the sequestration has taken effect. i don't know how much they want

to squeeze and cut but we're at the bone right now. >> it's interesting republicans, conservative republicans, conservative means so many different things not the rand paul conservative, not the small government conservatives but main street republicans are now complaining a lot about sequestration in terms of defense spending and democrats are concerned about the domestic spending. don't you think that pulls both sides together more than in the past. >> we're on a path where defense will go to 2.5% of national income and all of the nonmandatory, nondefense also to 2.5%. we haven't been at that level for half a century. so both sides are basically seeing what they like in government going down to unbelievably low levels. >> what we've said, mika, for four years, jeffrey and i have said it for five years the insanity of it all is that they

are cutting everything. but what really needs to be addressed. the huge entitlement programs that are going to prove right in the end we'll all be dead nobody has the guts to even approach. >> dr. sachs stay with us. up next we'll hear eyewitnesses from yesterday's navy yard shooting. their firsthand accounts when "morning joe" returns. helicopthierhis hibuzzing, andk engine humming. sfx: birds chirping sfx: birds chirping you raise her spirits. we tackled your shoulder pain. you make him rookie of the year.

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>> three gun shots straight in a row, pop, pop, pop. three seconds later, it was pop, pop, pop, pop. so it was like about a total of seven gun shots and we just started running. >> running and i heard gun shots and holy cow. he could have been way above me but i wasn't stopping to think you know what was going on. >> we were told to go down towards the water on the side of the building that we were in. and when we got to the wall it was a dead end there was no way for us to get out. so we scaled the wall. >> two women and myself and they went behind the desk and then we were there for a little bit and then i didn't hear anything.

so i said i'm not staying here. then i took off and ran across the building and i heard multiple shots. >> there was an individual who came from the building behind us. he talked to me basically saying hey there's a shooter in your building then i heard two more shots one of them hit him down he went down in front of me. >> the guy you were with >> the guy i was talking to. >> got shot? >> correct. >> what was his situation? >> he was shot in the head and did not look like he made site i ran from there. oh, gosh some of the dramatic firsthand accounts after yesterday's navy yard shooting. pete williams and jim miklaszewski, they have been on this story from the moment the news broke. chief stab of the dekalb county police department his county just averted a massive school shooting last month. eugene robinson and jeff greenfield join our conversation as well. we're back with more "morning joe". [ male announcer ] a doctor running late for a medical convention

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there is something evil in our society that we as americans have to work to try and eradicate. there's something wrong here when we have these multiple shootings, these multiple injuries. there's something wrong. and the only thing i can say is we have to work together to get

rid of it. i would like you to put my trauma center out of business. i really would. i would like not to be an expert on gun shots. that was the chief medical officer at the washington hospital center crystallizing what happened yesterday and this morning we're looking -- we're learning more details about the lone gunman who went on deadly shooting rampage. 12 people killed, 13 if you include the alleged shooter aaron alexis. a former naval reservist who was killed in a fire fight with officers. alexis moved to d.c. recently to work as a subcontractor for hewlett-packard. "the washington post" was told he was separated in 2011 over a pattern of misconduct and a gun incident in 2010 in texas played a role. he was reportedly also arrested in seattle after he fired three shots at a car belonging to construction workers. alexis said he had a blackout

fueled by anger after being mocked by the workers. his father told detectives at the time his son had anger management problems associated with ptsd and that alexis had helped out with rescue attempts during september 11th. others who knew him in texas said he was peaceful and prayed at a buddhist temple and monday's turn of events came with conflicting emotions. >> good man. good man. you know, funny guy, you know. party guy. >> were you ever afraid of him having a gun. >> he one of my family too. he's a good guy, you know. from what i know. i can't say that he did it or not but as long as with me nothing to be like, tell me he was going be aggressive. no sign he was going to shoot someone. >> he didn't come out of his room much. he played a lot of those online games where there was shooting a

lot of times. we were joke being, because his computer screen was big. like wow, you're shooting people a lot. we would joke about that. >> gees. how many times have we heard that? >> a lot. a lot. joining us on set this hour, along with me joe, willie and mike barnacle we have columnist for yahoo! news, jeff greenfield he's the author of the upcoming book "if kennedy lived the first and second terms of jfk, an alternate history." in washington we have eugene robinson and from the pentagon nbc news chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. jim, first of all, bring us up to date on everything that happened since yesterday just after 9:00. >> well, we know about 8:15 in the morning that aaron alexis somehow entered the navy yard

facility. he had a pass, not necessarily security clearance, but he had a security pass that allowed him to enter the base as a subcontractor as a low computer technician. now, once on base, he confronted one of the base police officers, shot him and grabbed his service revolver. but the big question being asked today is how did alexis get on that base with at least one weapon perhaps two. now it could have easily been concealed in some kind of duffel bag and once they get through the gate they have open access to the rest of the base. once he overpowered the security guard he went up to the fourth floor and opened fire on a breakfast crowd below, ultimately killing 12 before he himself was shot and killed in a shootout with police.

now, one of the big questions too being faced here and we've heard you ask it many times this morning, joe, is how could he have gotten a security clearance if he had been discharged from the navy. we're still trying to figure that out. there's no indication that he was dishonorably discharged but it was, apparently, as a result of several instances of misconduct including the shooting incident in fort worth. >> do we know why he selected that particular building? do we know why or how he was so familiar seemingly with the geography of the building, with the layout of the building? >> you know, none of that is clear. it's a total mystery because he and a number of others about a half-dozen others work as subcontractors for hewlett-packard on some kind of a computer project there at the navy compound. they had just arrived a few days earlier, they were staying at a

motel nearby. he purchase ad shotgun in virginia. not clear whether he had that ar-15 auto assault rifle with him at the time before he entered the base. but why the navy -- one could surmise, i guess, that it had something to do with his discharge from the navy but there's really no early clue as to why he selected that facility. target of opportunity, something came to a head, he simply blew at the wrong time. who knows. that's all going to have to be worked out. and there's, so far, we're not hearing any kind of paper trail to indicate why he would have exploded the way he did and why he did that yesterday at the navy compound. >> let's bring in gene robinson. wrote a piece in this morning's "the washington post." i want to read a piece of this. you write we don't want to get involved in syria, we don't want to assess where we are on the war on terror, we don't want to deal with gun control.

all of these issues are fraught with political danger, much safer for our intremendoused by elected officials to stake out their positions or yell at the other side. sometimes the issues our officials want to ignore hit tragically close to hem. talk more about your reaction and what you write today. >> well, my reaction was shock and sadness at what was going on. it was just crazy here in washington yesterday april driving in and you turn on the radio and listen to the news reporters and a certain tone of voice oh, this is going to be a long day and probably a sad day. but then frustration. you know you live here in washington and you see this sort of constant argument stuck without us actually doing anything that, you know, who knows if dunn control, if mental

health, if anything that could have been done in washington could have prevented this tragedy yet. we'll never know that because nothing ever does get done here and to have that happen here makes what's happening in the city and our government among our elected officials just seem all the more ridiculous. >> it's kind of hard not to make a connection when you hear his friend saying he would watch on a life-size screen these violent video games for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. >> which he had in common with the newtown shooter. >> here with us from washington, pete williams. pete, you can tell us more about aaron alexis if you would. do we know anything more about motives or anything? >> motive is going very difficult question to answer but the picture that i think is emerging from the people i talked to is of a man with a navy past, who was deteriorating

mentally remarks paidl lly rapi. he sought treatment from veteran hospitals for mental problems. he had a violent streak. he shot out the tires of the car of some workers who parked near his house when he lived in seattle nine years ago. he told the police at the time that he did it in a blackout fueled by anger. police investigator in seattle at the time talked to his father and he said well he's had anger management issues since helping rescue people from the twin towers on 9/11 in new york. he's from new york. his family lived in queens and then in brooklyn. then three years ago when he was living in fort worth he fired a round that went through an apartment above him. it was occupied by a woman that he thought was making too much noise. he told the police that it was

an accident that he was cleaning his gun. he had another arrest for disorderly conduct. so there certainly was this violent part of him. why he chose that particular building, why he chose that day, the day is probably simply a target of opportunity. he started planning this only recently. we believe he bought the shotgun that he carried to the scene just last week in virginia at a gun store. probably an illegal purchase because to be disqualified from buying a gun under federal law woe have been adjudged to be a mental problem. he was never convicted for these arrests or brought before a judge who said he had mental problems. there's nothing that would have alerted authorities that he was unqualified to buy the gun. after he got in then he got the other two weapons. >> pete williams, thank you very much. >> jeff greenfield i want follow

up on what gene robinson was talking about the frustration and nothing getting done in washington. in the coming weeks and months, obviously, we'll hear a lot of talk about background checks, gun trafficking laws, mental health, conservatives may talk about explicit video game violence. and how we have to have tougher ratings. we got a new one to deed the list, defense contractors between edward snowden and this murderer yesterday. now we've got totally to reassess about subbing out all of this work. >> first of all i'm struck, it's almost a topic for extremely dark comedy if it weren't so grim. we're now at a point where we have kind of a metrics to fill in. we know what we're supposed to talk about because these things happen so often. the thing that strikes me is how

the solutions or even topics we grapple with sometimes just don't fit, all right. gun control, this was a legally acquired shotgun. nobody is talking about shot guns as a source of this kind of behavior. are we talking about somebody who is driven by anger. the guy was a buddhist. how does that fit the model? the third thing and i know this is going to sound kind of weird sometimes you just have to look and say, you know what? it's in the human condition that thankfully a small percentage of human beings will go off the rails and do terrible things and after those things happen you can see the pattern. oh, this was a time bomb waiting to happen. how many people do you know who are angry, who even in their daily life display a lot of anger who wouldn't come close to doing something like this. the attempt to grapple and to grope for answers, as if there's a five point program, this is futile. this is something that's worthive a novelist or

shakespeare much more than public policy. >> aaron alexis, if you want to flush it out, is a perfect example of why nothing ever happens because aaron alexis, within days, within hours from now he was a loner. he was mentally ill. he had a grudge that can't be defined. he played violent video games. he had a weapon. aaron alexis was not us. he was not us as we walk around normally and go shopping and go to work. we'll put this behind us and do nothing. we'll do nothing. >> mike, what's the do something? do something if somebody is a brooding difficult person and this is the one among, i don't know how many that will do something. do you think -- i'm asking you -- >> yeah. >> is there oh, i know if we had mental health professionals in every office in every building in america maybe they can

diagnose this. i'm saying something that i know is contrary to almost american notion that for every problem there may absolution. what i'm saying -- >> might not be. >> what i'm saying quite bluntly there are some things like this that are not susceptible to tlu solutions. >> gene return. >> jeff makes an interesting point. you can look at it the other way. how many people out there are there who could have been aaron alexis, but who did, who work hard by some intervention and of course we'll never know because they do not go on to do a murderous rampage. yet whatever that intervention was, whether it was, you know, a friend who noticed erratic behavior and a professional or a parent who intervened and prevented this kind of thing.

>> in the past five, ten years, mental health has been pushed out into forefront so much more than it had. it's something families used to hide over the past centuries. you know, you didn't talk about crazy aunt in the attic. so many people went off in the past that, you know, we're starting to see and diagnose and gene you bring up a good point. for me certainly after noun i talk about background checks but we talked about mental health screening, violent video games. mental health s-i really do think that something that moving forward we as a nation have to continue to grapple with, and understand that there are people that have great challenges like this. but, i do disagree that there's not something we can do about it. i understand there's always going to be -- there's always

going to be people out there that are going to do the most horrific things. i think, though, following up on what gene said we have a better shot of stopping more of these in the future with proper mental health screening and the fact that now over the past decade we've actually started to talk about it. >> senator debbie stabenow and others in the wake of newtown wanted to get legislation pushed forward and money put towards mental health crisis management because there is so much that can to be done for people out there who are hiding in the shadows. the video games don't get me started. that's a part of it. >> we talked about grant theft auto earlier. i know this drives liberals and libra libertarians crazy. i saw my friends simulate murdering people thousands of

times. that's continued through the years. and it's gotten even worse. grand theft auto-5. my god after grand theft auto 2 no that's not coming in to our house again. again, of course, there are millions of people that use video games that don't do anything. after newtown, as i said -- >> if you're watching them day and night that's a warning sign. >> i know who this guy is without knowing who the guy is. >> 60 years ago under the instruction of a psychologist wrote a book called "seduction of the innocence," you know what was considered the threat of young people, comic books. every time there's a new medium, it is pointed to as the source of horrible behavior. it's comic books, rocknroll, video games, back in the days of

pac-man to desensitize people's brains. i'm not saying these games -- >> i'll sit down with you and i'll show you. >> i've seen them. my only point is -- >> they are a long cry from comic books. long cry from spiderman. >> "tales from the crypt" chopped heads off. the notion that here's the magic bullet if you'll pardon the expression bullet, this is the cause of it. it may not be the answer we think it is. >> there's no simple solution. no doubt about that. our next guest will tell us. >> from atlanta police chief of the dekalb county chief alexander. he was part of the panel with vice president joe biden. last month his county avert ad mass school shooting when a heroic bookkeeping talked down the potential gunman. i don't know if we have that

phone call. >> it's fascinating. you say here really what jeff is saying what we all understand, there are no easy answers to gun violence. just not. >> well, that's very true. it's absolutely no easy answers whatsoever. but i think part of the issue here after listening to number of your commentators there's one common theme that's at the forefront of all the recent shootings even as recent of yesterday there's been some mental health issue that seems to always come about with each of these individuals here in most recent years. and a lot of the conversation around mental health is being touched upon but never being talked about. that in itself is an issue and will continue to be an issue because we've stopped talking about one, gun control and two, very specifically what we're seeing is the mental health component that somehow always seems to be associated with a lot of the violence that we're

seeing across the country particularly when it comes to active shooters. >> so the aaron alexis, among other things, he bought a shotgun at a store called sharpshooters in virginia, according to a friend in fort worth, texas. he had a concealed carry permit for a handgun. he owned and used to go a gun range. and then had a brush in your state in actually dekalb county. he was arrested for disorderly conduct. what now about that event? >> well back in august of 2008 our records reflect that he was arrested for disorderly conduct charge, and, of course, he paid the fine and he went on about his way and we have no further record of him. we're going to delve into today once our county offices opened up to determine what were the circumstances around that disorderly conduct that we're able to determine that. i think what you're seeing here

with mr. alexis is clearly a pattern, a pattern of anger, a pattern of being alone, a pattern of violence that has occurred across the country over the last number years and, of course, on yesterday it came to some culmination. we got to go back and really have to look at very closely and begin to having the conversations again around mental health as it relates to gun violence in this country. we cannot avert that issue because it's going to continue to come around and we're going don't have these conversations without having the conversation that is leading up to a lot of these issues, i believe. >> just wonder, willie if you and i know about his past arrests and situations, why doesn't the gun store know? i don't get it. >> as jim miklaszewski and pete williams said he was never convicted. he never went before a judge. chief alexander, i want to ask you, you had mika touch on an

incident less than a month ago where a 20-year-old walked in with a gun and if not for the efforts of this heroic woman that talked him down and told him she loved him and held him at bay until police arrived we could be look at another sandy hook. what did you learn in terms of law enforcement from that incident? >> well there's a lot of things we learn across the country every time we have an event like this willie that occurs. but in this particular case for us on august 10th, here in dekalb, what we truly learned and what was very evident to us was the fact we needed to rapidly respond, in which we did. we had officers there within a matter of moments, not minutes but very short moments. in addition to that too, we had a very well trained school staff and of course miss tuft went far and beyond what her training had been given her but she was a

person who was very humanistic towards this person on that particular day and able to talk him down. that was probably an anomaly because we know historically that typically doesn't happen but we thank god that she was there on that particular day and was able to intervene. but that certainly could have been another horrific situation. but we should not overlook it because there was no death and mayhem on that day. what we need to take a closer look at is the subject on that day himself, who we as common lay people come to some determination and believe he probably had some mental health issues going on as well too. oftentimes what you find, as we saw yesterday with mr. alexis, swoeb a history of ptsd, they have some history of depression because it's all part of the same family, and this, this can

potentially lead to some other issues down road and particularly violence as what we saw yesterday. >> thank you very much. eugene robinson thank you as well. we'll be reading your column in today's "the washington post." jeff stay with us if you can. >> it was amazing what miss tuft did, sat there, talking to the man, talk about heartbreak in her life, talking about a recent divorce, talking about a child with multiple disabilities and a happy ending to that. but sadly that is often the exception and not the rule. >> still ahead in italy crews right the ship flipping the "costa concordia" after 20 straight hours of work. we'll get a live report with michelle kosinski. up next president obama threatens the republicans over the possibility of a shutdown. mr. bowles and mr. simpson join

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at the moment republicans in congress don't seem to be focused on how to grow the economy and build the middle class. i say at the moment because i'm still hoping that a light bulb goes off. i cannot remember a time when one faction of one party promises economic chaos if it can't get 100% of what it wants. that's never happened before. but that's what's happening right now. are some of these folks really so beholden to one extreme wing of their party that they are willing to tank the entire economy? just because they can't get their way on this issue? are they really willing to hurt

people just to score political points? that's the question and here with us now from capitol hill former co-chairs of the national commission on fiscal responsibility and now the co-chairs of the moment of truth project, erskine bowles and alan simpson. in the "christian science monitor" they write in part this budget talk in washington is again dominated by nonnegotiatable demands and a potential government shutdown or even an unprecedented default on u.s. debt in october, despite the heated rhetoric we believe that a bipartisan agreement is still possible. the sad lack of trust between two parties in negotiating on fiscal policy has been perhaps an even greater obstacle to an agreement than the deficit details themselves. however, the dinners that the president hosted with republican senators earlier this year were an important and long overdue effort at building the understanding that will be critical to getting that kind of bipartisan agreement.

it is going to take political courage on both sides to come together on skl common ground but there is room for a solution. and, alan simpson i'll start with you. what would that solution be? >> well, we need to think it would be a big time, do the big thing or go home but we can see now probably going to end up with some kind of a small ball which is a shame. but, every solution is out there. we did a 67 page report. got five democrats, five republicans, one independent ranging from a splendid man dick durbin and a splendid other conservative tom colburn, and if they are going to put their country at risk and that's what you're speak of, that's what america is speak being of, then we have to be in reserve but don't use our names because that might be too volatile, we're both on the witness protection

program now and we'll call it the path forward, and then we'll be back home. but let me tell you, it's -- we're just stunned at the stubbornness of both sides. >> the president, erskine, was asking the question your willing to tank the economy in order to win. what do you think? are they? >> no. i think it would be crazy. why in the world would somebody put the full faith and credit of u.s. government in jeopardy. it would be catastrophic not just in this country but because we're the world's currency, you know, we would be the -- it would be catastrophic globally. we got step up to this problem. you know, i've said many times it's our generation that created this problem, whether we're republicans or democrats and it's our responsibility to clean it up. we can't be the first generation of americans to leave the country worse off than we found it. it's just not acceptable.

>> good morning to both of you. when you're looking for a path down a middle isn't it true one side has won, the government is shrinking so hard and so fast in everything it's doing, the line has been drawn, no new revenues at all and what we have is a collapse in spending on every discretionary program we have in washington that we built up over decades. hasn't one side really won this battle? >> jeffrey, we've done the easy stuff. we raised taxes on people make being more than $400,000 a year. we put a cap on discretionary spending. of course we didn't tell people what we would cut. we've done the stupid stuff which is the sequester which is what we're referring to which really cuts the investments we need to make in education and infrastructure and high value added research, the kinds of things that will make us competitive in a knowledge based global economy. but we've avoided doing the really tough stuff and that's what we got focus on and that's

what we got push these members of congress to deal with. >> jeff greenfield we know what that stuff is but no one will do it. >> gentlemen, i listen to you and i think i'm seeing a place just before the start world war i, an archduke being shot in serbia, impossible. both of you folks have seen a decline of what senator simpson would talk about, that middle ground that used to be the place that everyone assumed was impregnable. isn't there a chance and that the political reality and more on the republican side and some of its members they are prepared to see a shutdown and maybe a default in pursuit of what they regard as an important principle of defunding obama care. is this the kind of washington you live in, senator simpson? >> no it isn't. you were here. you watched it all.

we used to collaborate on things. we worked together on things. this is a sense of madness. you have people in my party who didn't come there to limit government they came to stop it. now that's a lot different. we didn't have people like that. we talked to people on the other side. it wasn't embarrassing to work with ted kennedy. you didn't have to agree with the person. i worked with met disease zenba -- metzenbaum and ted kennedy. you are scared to death of the guy behind your own party that is ready to pick you off in the leadership. this is something to watch. >> right on that note, senator bowles, senator simpson thank you very much. jeff greenfield and dr. jeffrey sachs thank you both as well.

>> have you figured out how to solve that trust thing in the next couple of months. sneezy problem. >> at 8:15 we can talk about the deficit. >> coming up a piece on the gun control of this morning's "daily news." he joins us straight ahead. first we go live to italy where the salvage operation for the "costa concordia" enters the homestretch. michelle kosinski joins us next when "morning joe" comes back. here's the plan.

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all right the massive cruise ship the "costa concordia" is now sitting upright but there's still a long way to go before it can be towed away. michelle kosinski is live in giglio, italy with the latest on that. >> reporter: what a sight this is. people here in awe this morning to see the "costa concordia" pulled upright. in fact struggling for words to describe the damage you see in there, it looks like a giant had slammed his fits into it. as if someone had thrown an enormous ball into its side. it took nearly two years but

this is what it looked like to finally raise the hulking concordia over close 20 years. >> amazing. amazing. really when you see the ship come up it's amazing. >> reporter: celebration broke out in the middle of the night on this tiny island that wait sod long. >> we were expecting it to be harder. but it came off quite nicely. >> reporter: slow going to start. a few delays. but once they pulled the ship up to the point they could pump water into these enormous boxes that force took over. now resting upright looking like a ghost ship, a reminder too of the terror and loss of life that night. but now at last it can be moved way. is there still an element of i can't believe we pulled this off. >> yeah, i think so. i mean there always is that. you have these fears we didn't expect perfection but that's

what we got. >> reporter: so next salvagers can chain big floats to this side of the ship. they don't have to weld them on. we're looking at several months before they can pull them out of here. yesterday one of the survivors said the wreck itself has been a monument to stupidity but this salvage separation testament as to what engineering can do. so far the salvage say lone has cost nearly $800 million. >> oh, my gosh. michelle kosinski live from giglio, italy. thank you so much. up next "daily news" columnist joins the table. more "morning joe" in just a moment. um... where's mrs. davis?

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46 past the hour here with us now columnist for the "new york daily news," mika lupica. he's out this morning with a new book "qb1." you also have a piece on the gun, same gun different slay. tell us about some of your thoughts -- >> it's not convince wld he had the gun there or brought it in with him. i heard the chief police speaking before about how there's one common theme obviously in these shootings and it's mental illness. most of this it's this ar-15 which is a fast killing gun. and, i look at the website for guns like this yesterday. it talks about tactical use. it means killing people in movie

theaters and schoolyards and navy yards. there's no reason for this gun to be on the street. >> this is not a hunting rifle the ar-15. >> hunting people, mike. >> the whole issue of mental health and the chief that when he on from dekalb county addressed it a bit, we have got to continue, i would think, the advancements we made in talking about mental health, removing the stigma of talking about it. one of the good examples is the woman who spoke to the potential school shooter in georgia. what she did is she created a link, a human link, talked to him about issues that she had in her life, issues that clearly he was undergoing in his life. but that's a key component to this. >> yeah. they say well there were no great red flags because he was never charged or arrested or whatever it is. if you fire a gun through a roof whatever the reason it is or shoot some tires is somewhere that needs to go into a database

so when you try to buy a shotgun in a gun loving state like virginia. >> in his case he had never been convicted. he shot the tires out of the car in seattle, squeezed off a couple of rounds because the neighbors were dancing upstairs or whatever it was there was no conviction so thus it doesn't go into a database. the rifle itself address the rifle. you can get it almost anywhere. >> don't want to say the chain i looked up the information. they are very proud of this gun. but it's constantly called a hunting rifle. there are rifles that you use to hunt with. this is a the tactical weapon that was invented to kill people. and it certainly is doing a good job of it lately in this country. >> why wouldn't you say the chain? >> i'm sorry. >> why wouldn't you say the chain that want sells this gun. >> no. this was -- it was -- you know it's that big.

but i was saying about this yesterday he wouldn't have shown up in any database. google up any of our names. they have this deep knowledge of everything. >> everything. >> we know these something happ this guy, somewhere somebody ought to know about it. >> i want to hear about the before you go. this is your pub day. tell us about "qb 1." >> they're calling it the manning brothers meets "friday night-lights." the younger one isn't supposed to be anything yet. the father was a quarterback. he can't see the younger boy's talent. he's only had eyes for the older boy and across the book the father realizes that he has another son who's pretty great at football. it's about fathers and sons and a young 14-year-old kid who doesn't have to just get out of one shadow but two. >> so, mike, when it says -- i've read on the back of the book it says you're the greatest sportswriter for middle school readers. in his bio. is this book directed at younger

readers? >> yes, it is. i started writing these books about ten years ago. my middle son got cut from a travel basketball team because he was too small. i started a team for those kids that got cut and note wroet a novel about it. >> how is it different from what you do in your daily life? >> travel team, i first took off taylor, my wife said, honey, let's face it, you writing from inside the mind of a 12-year-old seems to be pretty much a perfect fit as far as i can tell. and so having -- i have four children. i've coached them all. i've had this life as a sportswriter. and the stories just keep on coming. but john, ultimately, the reason these books appeal to these kids from 10 till high school is they're about things that i think matter to kids, which are loyalty and friendship. if you're not a good teammate, you're not going to do very well in one of my books. >> by that reasoning, mike should be writing for nonenglish

speakers. >> great. >> greatest ever columnist for nonenglish speakers. >> the book is "qb1." >> off sunday's giants' broncos' game, it's clearly not about the manning brothers. >> okay, okay, okay. >> wow. >> had a bad day. >> mike lupica, great to have you, and thank you for your piece in "the daily news" today. appreciate that. still ahead, she says they borrowed each other's ideas and bought like dresses. delia ephron joins us with her new memoir where she discusses life, love, and her late sister, norah. ♪ as your life changes, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college, and revisit your investments

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up next, the latest details on the washington navy yard shooting. nbc pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski joins us with what we know this morning about the gunman. and the president's response to the tragedy. the criticism this morning to his decision to still hold his event on the economy. why the white house says canceling was never an option. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪

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there is something evil in our society that we as americans have to work to try and eradicate. there's something wrong here when we have these multiple shootings, these multiple injuries. there's something wrong. the only thing that i can say is we have to work together to get rid of it. i'd like you to put my trauma center out of business.

i really would. i would like to not be an expert on gunshots. >> that was dr. janice orlovsky, the chief medical officer, crystallizing what happened just after we got off the air yesterday morning. this morning we are learning new details about the lone gunman who went on a deadly shooting rampage at the washington navy yard. 12 people killed, 13 if you include the alleged shooter, aaron alexis, a former naval reservist who was killed in a fire fight with police officers. he moved to d.c. recently to work as a civilian subcontractor for hewlett-packard. a navy official told "the washington post" he was discharged in 2011 over a pattern of misconduct and that a gun incident in 2010 in texas played a role. >> he was also reportedly arrested in seattle after he fired three shots at a car belonging to construction workers. alexis claimed he had a blackout that was fueled by anger after

being mocked by the workers. his father told detectives at the time that his son had anger management problems associated with ptsd and that alexis had helped out with rescue attempts during the september 11th attacks. but other who is knew him in texas say he was a peaceful and prayerful buddhist, and monday's turn of events came with conflicting emotions. >> good man. good man. you know, funny guy, you know, party guy. >> were you never afraid of him having the gun? >> man, he was my best friend. why would i be? he's a good guy, you know, i mean that i know. when he was with me, nothing -- nothing to be, like, tell me that he's going to be aggressive or no sign that he's going to shoot someone. >> he didn't come out of his room much. like i said, he played a lot of the online games where there was

shooting all the time. and we were joking about that sometimes because they were, like, well, you know, his computer screen was life like, it was big, and it was like, wow, he's shooting a people a lot and we would joke about that. >> this was something that nobody expected to happen. so i just want to let everybody know that whoever got hurt, families and victims, alexis family, our hearts go out to you. we apologize for the inconvenience of losing a loved one. we also lost a loved one. >> with us on set on this today morning msnbc contributor mike barnicle, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and political analyst john heilman and from the pentagon, nbc news chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. jim, bring us up to date if you could. >> pentagon and military officials this morning are still shaking their heads. what drove aaron alexis to do what he did and how did he initially enter that navy yard past armed security guards with

at least one weapon? but all the focus yesterday was stopping the killing, getting the shooter. it was sheer chaos. >> reporter: morning rush hour in the nation's capital pierced by the wail of sirens. 8:15, the first reports that a gunman was on a shooting rampage inside the sea systems command at the navy yard, crackling across fire dispatch radios. >> we have a report on the fourth floor, a male with a shotgun, multiple shots fired, multiple people down. >> reporter: patricia ward was in line at the navy command's cafeteria when suddenly the first gunshots rang out. >> there was three gunshots straight in a row, pop, pop, pop. three seconds later it was pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. so it was a total of seven gunshot, and we just started running. >> reporter: for sean carroll, it was surreal. he couldn't believe what he was

hearing. >> i was running and heard gunshots and holy cow. that's -- i don't know. it could have been way above me, be, i wasn't stopping to think what was going on. >> reporter: eyewitnesses report that the shooter took up a position on the fourth floor overlooking a massive atrium in the center of the building. from there, he reportedly opened fire with an automatic rifle on the breakfast crowd at a food court on the ground floor. and then others on a third-floor balcony area. witnesses also report the gunman confronted a man in the fourth floor corridor and shot him at point-blank range. but most of the victims never saw their attacker. a man walking right next to navy commander tim juris was suddenly cut down by gunfire. >> basically saying there's a shooter in your building, then i heard two more shot, one of them hit him. he went down in front of me. he was shot in the head and did not look like he made it so i ran from there. >> reporter: 12 people were killed in the shooting spree, several injured, including a police officer. the gunman, identified as a

former navy reservist, aaron alexis, was also killed in the shoot-out with authorities who stormed the building. >> the response by uniformed police officers from the metropolitan police department and united states park police was absolutely nothing short of heroic. >> reporter: the chaos paralyzed the city. nearby schools were locked down, highways shut down. the capitol closed and the nationals baseball game postponed. air traffic from nearby national airport suspended while medevac helicopters airlifted the wounded to a hospital. as the navy yard's employees streamed out of the complex, many colleagues were helping each other to safety. at the white house, president obama paid tribute to the fallen. >> they're patriots, and they know the dangers of serving abroad, but today they faced the unimaginable violence that they wouldn't have expected here at home. >> reporter: now, from the sound of that, and you talk to military expert, say they this didn't sound like a random shooting because almost everyone he shot was killed, 12 were

killed as we know. the gunman himself was shot this-in a standoff, at least two or three standoffs with police so, he fought to the death. but the big question again remains he apparently entered the navy yard with a shot gup he purchased in virginia, shot one of the security guards and grabbed a pistol and perhaps the assault rifle he had at that time, then made his way into building 197, the navy sea systems command, with where he began his deadly rampage, mika. >> so there are concerns that -- did he have clearance or did he just shoot his way in? >> reporter: well, he did have clearance. he had a clearance -- now, this is where the issue of contractors and subcontractors has rearisen. he was working as a subcontractor, apparently, for hewlett-packard on some kind of i.t. service. he and several other people who came from texas. and they had not even begun the work yet when he entered with his i.d. card, confronted a

guard, shot him apparently, and then moved his way into the -- into the building. now, people are asking, well, how did he get that security clearance if he had all these other offenses? but he was never charged in any of the other shooting incidents in seattle or two of them, actually, in ft. worth. showed up on his record. >> was he dishonorably discharged from the navy? >> he was separated, not dishonorably discharged but separated. there are several levels of separation. he was not dishonorably darnled. but after a shooting incident in ft. worth where he shot a gun through the ceiling because the neighbor above him in the apartment was making too much noise, the navy said we're done with this guy. he was separated. >> he had two gun incidents. right? >> right. >> separated from the navy. >> he did. >> and it seems safe to ask two question, one, how did he get another gun a few weeks back in virginia, and, two, why would they let this man be a defense

contractor and walk on a base? >> again, it goes back to the fact that he didn't actually have a criminal record involving guns. now, apparently the seattle prosecutor is saying, you know, the paper work was lost. that case never came to the prosecutor. >> but he was separated, though -- he was separated from the navy. >> right. exactly. that should have appeared on his record. but even that, you can be separated for a whole host of reasons, and this is another enigma in this system, there are some prooich si regulations when it comes to a person's personal service record. so it appears that he -- and, look, a subcontractor to a contractor to a -- i'm sure that those security clearances get a cursory glance and people don't really delve too deeply into what our low-level contractors. but there have been many

instances where contractors -- look at eric snowden for example, probably the best case. he slipped through the cracks. >> in a speech yesterday, president obama addressed the navy yard shooting, praising the first responders. but it quickly turned to his planned speech on the economy where he criticized republicans for threatening a government shutdown. >> at the moment, republicans in congress don't seem to be focused on how to grow the economy and build the middle class. i say at the moment because i'm still hoping that a light bulb goes off here. so far, their budget ideas revolve primarily around even deeper cults to education, even deeper cuts that would gut america's scientific research and development. even deeper cuts to america's

infrastructure. i cannot remember a time when one faction of one party promises economic chaos if it can't get 100% of what it wants. that's never happened before. but that's what's happening right now. are some of these folks really so beholden to one extreme wing of their party that they're willing to tank the entire economy just because this can thai can't get their way on this issue? are they really willing to hurt people just to score political points? >> all right. when asked about the tone of the speech, white house press secretary jay carney defended it, saying the speech was necessary since congress must act to avoid a government shutdown. he says no consideration was give on the rescheduling it. john heilman, i have more of an issue with the staging of it, given what was going on at the time. do you think the criticism -- there have been a couple of

pieces and news outlets that have had opinion pieces on this that are saying it was a little inappropriate. is that fair? >> i think it's -- it's kind of fair in the sense that, you know, we just around the table here we're saying that you can imagine if a similar thing had happened under george w. bush that a lot of people would be outraged that he did not stop and just focus specifically on the tragedy that was happening yesterday. you know, there's so much with the president right now, if you think about this, you know, can't help but think part of his reaction to this still goes back to his frustration over an inability to get anything done and the resistance that he felt that he encountered when he tried to get something done on gun control after newtown. the culture is increasingly sadly inured to these things. some of his frustration, if you were a -- i'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, i don't play one on tv, but some of his frustration at the republican party, which is so pervasive

now, that you almost hear in his lashing out at republicans on the fiscal stuff here kind of transference that he's still incredibly frustrated with republicans over everything but specifically over the fact that there was a horrific tragedy that happened nine months ago in newtown and he tried to move gun control legislation and couldn't get it done. and i think he probably blames the republican party mostly for that. >> mike, willie, what was going on? what was going on at the time that the president delivered this partisan speech? >> well, he delivers the speech with jay carney -- and we love jay, we love jay, he's a great guy, but insist in response yesterday to the question why wasn't it postponed, say that never came into consideration, then there's something wrong with the management. >> by the way, willie geist, what was going on at the time the president was talking about republicans liking to, quote, hurt people? >> the building was obviously still locked down. they were looking for a shooter or shooters. they didn't know at the time.

they were finding bodies. there were people hiding in lockers. this was a scheduled speech for a long time. it was the five-year anniversary of the collapse of lehman and everything else. a critical issue no question. let's do it tomorrow, do it the day after. he did obviously talk about it at the top of that speech, the staging of it. >> that's exactly -- willie, i was distracted by the people behind him that looked very excited to be there. >> well, he brought his props along, and he had this political speech and it was -- it was a harsh partisan speech from the president of the united states op any day. but you know what, this president is frustrated and there is -- he certainly has every right to do that, but on the day while people were hiding, while people were bleeding, while people were dying, while the nation was locked down, he's talking about harsh partisanship, and

republicans wanting to hurt people. mike, what is more partisan than not being able to put aside one of these stupid washington battles, postponing it for a day? >> never came under consideration. >> never came under consideration. never considered it. there's not one person in the white house that said, you know, right down the block people are dying right now and there's a gunman on the loose and there's local schools that are on shutdown and the capitol is on shutdown and there may be a second or third gunman? and you know what, maybe we'll just give this speech tomorrow. really? nobody even -- nobody ever considered that? if you believe jay carney -- >> never came under consideration. >> unbelievable. >> i'm not sure i would believe jay carney about that. >> unbelievable. >> to say that it had been under consideration would simply open the door. my guess is that that would have been not entirely true.

>> others in congress were responding to this. >> i can't imagine if any other president did this, the ramifications. george w.? george w.? can you imagine? >> do you think they would have been upset about that? >> this network in 2006, seven or eight -- >> at this table, can you imagine the way mika would have reacted? >> mika would have been killing george w. everybody on this network would be killing george w. everybody at "new york times" would be killing george w. every journalist in washington, d.c., would be killing george w. >> okay, but also you -- i mean, i think -- >> it's unbelievable. >> i think he was put in a horrible position. >> no, he wasn't. he's president of the united states. he should be smart enough. the guy should be smart enough. there should be one person there that had the guts to say, mr. president, you know, people are dying right now. >> you can't do this. >> you possibly should not --

comfort the nation today. attack republicans tomorrow. >> do what you do best. >> or you would like to think he would have said that himself. guy, let's do this tomorrow. ? as the leader of the country you would think that. >> up next on "morning joe," our political roundtable with nbc chief white house correspondent chuck todd. and ahead, her movies include "you've got mail" and "sister hood of the traveling pants." now best-selling author and screen united statwriter delia up. first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> i can tell you a few things bill karins is talking about. >> thought we were going to keep that between us, joe. cat's out of the bag. aerials over colorado have been nothing more than jaw dropping. i mean, the floodwaters that rushed down these mountains, through these canyons, just took everything out, including large, huge bridges across major highways, homes were in the way, over 2,000 homes destroyed.

the water levels are just beginning now to recede. and now we're looking at just this massive cleanup. it's not like a flood in other areas like the midwest where if one road is closed you can go the other way. these are the roads that lead up to the mountains. there aren't many of those roads. when those bridges are washed out, there may be no other way to go. it will be really interesting to see how long it takes to get this area back on its feet. look at the devastation. it's widespread, not just isolated either. as far as today goes, it looks like another good day. looks like that wet weather pattern is over with in colorado. from here on out in the rest of this week, it should be dry and mostly sunny. that wet weather has moved towards kansas city this morning. it's very cold in northern new england. starting to warm it up. went down to about 36 degrees in northern vermont. so fall is definitely on its way, but at least it's going to be sunny and nice today. not many other weather concerns. just have an umbrella handy in south florida. hard to complain 92 with a

chance of thunderstorms in orlando. we leave you with a shot of washington, d.c. it's a cool, crisp, fall-like morning. it will be a beautiful afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" on this tuesday. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles

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we are confronting yet another mass shooting and today it happened on a military installation in our nation's capital. these are men and women who were going to work, doing their job, protecting all of us.

they're patriots, and they know the dangers of serving abroad, but today they face the unimaginable violence that they wouldn't have expected here at home. i will no negotiate over the full faith and credit of the united states. this country has worked too hard for too long to dig out of a crisis just to see their elected representatives here in washington purposely cause another crisis. let's stop the threats, let's stop the political posturing, let's keep our government open, let's pay our bills on time, let's pass a budget, let's work together to do what the american people sent us here to do -- create job, grow our economy, expand opportunity. that's what we need to do. >> here with us now from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd.

mike barnicle, john heilman and brian shakman are at the table. so, chuck, where do you want to begin? we juxtaposed the two key statements the president made yesterday. >> right. >> there is some criticism about the tone or about the timing or the fact that no one considered cannesling the event. >> you know, they seemed to have had struggles getting it right timing-wise. i've been having this song many my head when watching this white house over the last couple weeks, that song "just can't seem to get it right today." their timing has been off on everything, whether you want to start with the speech to the nation, which, by the time they gave it seemed frankly out of date the minute he gave it. right? it was no longer the speech he intended to give. there was potential deal with the russians at the time. and he didn't even get to that part of the speech until the end of the speech. so the opices and the timing was off there. then look at the interview he

granted to abc. he granted it on the friday rather than on the saturday so he gives the interview, saturday the actual deal gets cut in syria and everything he says about syria is completely out of date so any impact that they hoped that interview would have goes away. then yesterday, you know, let's set aside the optic debate a minute. who's going to hear their message? like that to me would be the reason not to do the event yesterday. who's listening? >> that would be one of them. >> what's the point? it's like yes you're going to do this later in the week, well do it later in the week then. what good did -- you know, there was only -- what i was trying to figure out about why they did that yesterday, what positive was going to come out of giving that speech? what impact did they think they would have? >> chuck, my question is that's a litany of basic communications and messaging errors. what's the explanation for that? what's going on over there that they're getting this wrong in

sequence like this? >> you know, people are going to be finger point, is it staff, is it the president himself. you know, when you look at the decision to go congress on syria, he didn't prep his national security team that that was even an option. they didn't even know that was an option until the night he did it. so that's not one of those things you can blame on staff. that was him. suddenly they had less than 24 hours to get a messaging plan together to roll that out. so, you know, i think that they feel like they're throwing a little bit of mud at the wall to try to fix their own messaging problems right now, to try to fix their own leader that they know they've take an hit on the perception on their leadership. and i just feel like they're just throwing it out there. they said, well, look at the syria thing. they granted all those anchor interviews, the next day spoke to the nation, and as if they felt they didn't need to get their message across on syria, they need to do this again. washington is beating the living

daylights out of them, let's do a sunday show because that will allow them to talk to washington. well, that didn't seem to work. i just feel like they're just off. every one of their messaging decisions -- again, i go back to that song, i think the singer's names joe purdy. they just can't seem to get it right. >> brian. >> if we brought it out, the debate was if he lost the syria vote potentially his credibility for the rest of his term could be compromised. chuck, i guess are rewe looking at the possible that they didn't have the vote that we are looking at some potential -- that it's moving forward to be get done? >> i think that's a thought in the back of their heads. i know it is in some of washington, which is when does the lame duck aspect of his presidency kick in. the fact is there's too many fights coming up in the next three months that give them plenty of tunnels to be relevant. >> he lost on summers. he would have lost on syria. so who's to think that some of

the fights that they might actually have to engage will go well? >> well, they haven't gone well before, so that's a very fair point. but i think that this is an opportunity for them to get it right, to get their mojo back if they can. i think they think that republicans can't get on the same page as to what their strategy is for debt ceiling and for shutdown, so i think they're hoping that there's a little bit of a -- that they have an opponent that shoots themselves in the foot. but i think at this point you're right, i think there certainly is a confidence issue and you can tell from congressional democrats they're not confident in their president right now as being the guy -- being at the forefront and calling the shots. >> chuck, are there any rumblings within the white house and the political side of the white house that says syria's out of the way? >> i was just going to say, it's all -- >> yeah. but with regard to the senate rancor towards larry summers

prior to his withdrawal and the cabal of senators coming together, democrats, liberals coming together, is there any feeling in the white house like, hey, we've got to slap these people around? we've got to show them? you know, we've raised money for them in several instances, we campaigned for them in several instances, maybe a couple of them wouldn't be here without the strength of the presidency or the white house behind him, and now they do this. is there any indication in the white house that they're going to deal with this mini rebellion? >> boy, i don't think they feel like they have the political capital to handle it the way you're describing because i think that there is a little bit of internal finger-pointing on how they handled the summers issue. you know, why did they let it get so public. he was put out there arguably by his advocates in the white house, sort of put in the public purview but didn't have a support network of folks, sort of a war room, if you will, to

defend him from shots. they had to know this was coming. this was not a surprise. so, you know, i thought it was -- when you look in hindsight, if they really wanted larry, then how they went about it was wrong and it was a bit inept. you know, there should have been a more -- you know, a concerted effort. they knew who some of the potential roadblocks could be in the democratic side. >> right. >> you know, they should have been working that a little bit harder behind the scenes before they went so public and allowed them to become a pinata on the left. >> all right, chuck. thank you so much. >> thank you, chuck. >> all right, guys. >> so much to talk about today in "the daily rundown" at 9:00. we'll see you then. john heilman, i've been surprised about this for years. i'm hearing more and more people say it now though. there is such a disconnect -- and of course you guys covered these presidential campaigns closely from 2007 forward. you're just wrappinging up your next book.

i'm struck, as are so many other people, about the disconnect between the obama team when they have the campaign cap on and the obama team when they have the governing cap on. and of course at some point the health care reform, we did this, we did that. well, health care reform by -- it was a political debacle. it is still a political debacle. it cost them the house of representatives. it cost them so much. and it could have ended a lot easier. i'm hearing from so many democrats, as you guys are, and, you know, people always say why don't you say their name? well, because. there's a reason they talk to me, because they don't tell you their names. so many diplomat, so many world leaders are e either talking to me or you guys or my friends who are saying it's a little early to have a lame duck meltdown. it's like -- like i was saying last week about syria, we're all

in this together. and right now this president seems bored or disconnected or out of touch or something. there's a serious problem going on in the white house. what have you seen about the disconnect between the campaign that is so ruthlessly efficient on communication skills and the governance which has been challenge prd the start? >> well, look, i think it's a really fair point. and the truth is, you know, a lot of defenders of the president will say, well, you know, tights republicans' fault and he has a determined opposition on the hill. he's faced determined opposition among republicans on the campaign trail too. you know, if you go back and look, it's an interesting thing that i recommend someone do. if you go back and look right after he re-elected, last november, there were a lot of pieces that were done at the time when they talked to the president's team and said you just won a second term, what's your plan for the second term? and you'll have quotes from many of this president's senior adviser who is said we recognize that we have a nine to 12-month window and we've studied

history, had historians who come in, we have a plan, we know this is a very narrow window for us to get stuff done. if you look at what has happened since they very confidently projected that they had figured it all out, almost nothing has gone right since -- literally since election day of 2012. and, you know, part of it is no question there's been a brain drain. this doesn't explain the first term and, you know, they had -- you know, there are a lot of things -- that's a big historical question, but right now the -- this part of what i was kind of leading chuck on a second ago, a lot of the people, the people who have been responsible for the president on messaging that did the 2008 campaign through most of the first term, a lot of those people aren't r gone. not to say there aren't still good people in the white house, but the people the president most relied on in those areas have left. that's a common phenomenon a lot of presidents face in their second term, but it seems to be hurting them and seems to have

hurt them in the course of the last ten months. the absence of a guy like david plouf is huge right now. >> what is your take on the political instinct or lack thereof with senators saying we don't care who you want or what you think, we are going to do what we want to do? >> in terms of the senators' instincts or the white house instincts? >> the white house. >> i think chuck is right that the white house doesn't think they have that much leverage with them anymore. there has been a lot of frustration on the part of democratic lawmakers with the white house for four years, and they i think are -- they're at the front of the line in identifying the lame duck syndrome setting in. they don't think that the white house is going to have much to do with their re-election in 2010. i'm sorry. in 2014. >> somebody like chris murphy who spoke against him in syria. he doesn't have to deal with obama's support when he runs

again. but obama never wanted to deal with the economy in his first term but had to. he was faced with dealing with that huge chunk of it. this nine months of the second term could have been an opportunity to go after things he wanted and that's where the disappointment is. we're not talking about immigration, obviously. who knows if that will ever come up again in this term. that was supposed to be one of the signature elements of his second term. >> if you think about the 2010 midterm, the white house did not help that many -- they were not seen as having provided much help to democrats in that midterm election so, democrats now, they're happy that the president helped them a little bit in 2012, although he didn't do much in terms of money that went to the triple c or the campaign committee. they're looking towards the midterms and the 2016 and the president has nothing to do with their re-election in the next two election cycles. >> isn't it stunning that you say the white house 3 1/2 years ago is saying we don't have a lot of control over democrats in the senate. the president goes on the air and says we don't have a lot of control about what goes on in the middle east, we really --

even his speech on syria. i won't pile on. it's deeply concerning to me as an american where the president said, well, yeah, i didn't draw the red line. i don't have anything to do with this. this has nothing to do with me. he is acting 3 1/2 years to go weather 3 1/2 years to go, like he is some sort of passive observer in a college seminar on american politics. and that's a very frightening thing. and it's a frightening thing for the democratic senators that you're talking to, that i'm talking to, that you're talking to. i they lot of republicans may be gleeful about it because right now he seems to be in a constant state of retreat. but i can tell you, most americans are concerned about it. international leaders are concerned about it. diplomats are -- you aef got 3 1/2 years left and you just look at the white house and you just wonder what's going on over

there. >> all right. coming up, best-selling author and screenwriter delia ephron. she joins was her new memoir on life, love, and her late sister nora. "morning joe" will be right back.

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my mother was a great, po r powerful person who taught me everything, who kept saying constantly, everything is copy, everything is material, someday this will be a funny story. she never said, oh, honey, that's so sad, you know, the way you're supposed to say to your kids? i'm so sympathetic -- no, no, no. just get over it, move on. this will be a story someday. she had four daughters who were all writers. we all learned to do that thing where you feel bad about your neck and then make a joke about it. >> i love it. >> that was the late screenwriter and filmmaker nora ephron on her family's talent for writing. here with us now nora's sister, best-selling author and screenwriter delia ephron, and she's out with her new book, "sister, mother, husband, dog, et cetera." delia, great to see you again. >> thank you. >> thank you for being on. >> and going off of that quote from nora from your essay on why i can't write about my mother.

as your mother was dying, scherr muttered what? "take notes." >> to my sister, she said "take notes." >> on her deathbed. >> and i've always hated it, all right? >> yeah. >> because it's just think, okay, your daughter is there -- >> right. >> and this is what you say to her. >> that's your instruction? that's her instruction? what's the meaning of life? take notes. >> right. but, but, but, to me she said, i hope you never tell anyone what happens here. >> oh, really. >> so that is really about -- i mean, my mother was an alcoholic, and when i was a child she was this fantastic person in the day. she was accomplished. she had a screenwriter, a feminist, and at night she went to pieces. >> you said you and your sisters kept her on a pedestal despite evidence to the contrary. >> yes. it's like you -- the myth in the

family. right? everybody has to believe in the myth. and then this "take notes" thing becomes this enormous thing, oh, isn't that wonderful, and there of course my message was entirely different, "i hope you never tell anyone what happens here." >> why do you think that is? >> well, maybe she'd had one message to one sister and maybe she knew who was judas. i don't know. right? but, you know -- she tornasaid me -- i was about to have my first book published and it was called "the adventurous crocheter." i was a crocheter there. it was a craft book. >> barnacle was, too. >> i'm sure you took up bread baking instead. right? my mother said to me on her deathbed -- i was telling her a story about -- she always used to take swimming lessons in college for other people who couldn't swim because half the people in new york couldn't swim and we always thought this was a hysterical story. for some reason i just reminded

her of it because she took them, because she hated math and her friends took her math tests for her. she said i didn't hate math. i hated crocheting. okay? so here i am, second child, you know, getting completely -- and it was complicated. i mean, having -- being the child of an alcoholic, i really needed to write about it because i think you carry it through life. >> yeah. >> you really do. it changes your life. it absolutely changes your life. that piece was like spitting up in my veins. >> your first essay of this book is called "losing nor rasmt" you say, "nora thanked me by send megaroses. two dozen gorgeous plump peach roses in full bloom. the sister in the hospital sending flowers to the one who was not. i have thought a lot about this. more than anything, i think about this. there are things a person does that you could talk about forever. they are the key. they reveal character.

they unlock secrets. i think nora's sending me flowers was that. it meant flat out, i love you." that's beautiful. >> it was -- nora was the greatest present giver in the world. all right? i mean, nobody gave presents like nora. and, i mean, i was always coming home to ginger cookies or a cake or something. and then i thought in the hospital that it was so hard for her to be vulnerable. you know, she was -- you know her. she was fierce. >> yep. >> working with her was like traveling in an armored vehicle or something. and there she was, and i was going there to take care of her and i thought she had to send me flowers because it was just -- >> to help you feel better? >> yes. a little way to get a little of her own back, just not to be on the receiving -- >> she is. she always gave -- always looking for an opportunity to give something. >> yes. yes. and you know, she was fierce and i pine for fierce. i long for fierce.

but it's not my thing. and i think in the hospital to be so vulnerable and then she had to send me flowers so that -- i don't know. >> wow. >> is that why so few people knew about her illness? she didn't want to be vulnerable? >> yes. i think that's one of the big reasons. absolutely. and of course she was very private. but, yeah, i mean, gosh, the person with the secret is the person with the power. but also how you -- how you die is really how you want to live. and nora wanted her life to be about living. >> the book is "sister, mother, husband, dog, et cetera." delia ephron, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> good to see you again. >> thank you for having me. >> "business before the bell" is next. ♪

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jbut when it comes to investing, things i prefer to do on my own. i just think it's better to work with someone. someone you feel you can really partner with. unfortunately, i've found that some brokerage firms don't always encourage that kind of relationship. that's why i stopped working at the old brokerage, and started working for charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today.

time for "business before the bell," brian sullivan. what's going on? >> the federal reserve, joe. today begins the first day of a two-day meeting for the fed, and back in november of 2008, nearly five years ago, the fed began quantitative easing, a fancy term for buying back debt for lower interest rates. tomorrow we could see the first reduction in that really in five years. >> what does that mean to consumers watching right now? >> it's going to mean higher interest rates and it already has. i feel like talking about bond yields bores is pants off everybody. >> yeah so, it means higher interest rates. right? >> that's what it means. but here's the thing, joe and mika, we've probably already got them because the bond market has already moved the last two months in anticipation that tomorrow the fed will announce they're slowing down their bond -- they could surprise us and not do that, but that's the reality and the expectation.

>> the markets have factored this this in so if interest rates are higher now it's because of that? >> that's the trillion dollar question. how much is baked in the or how much could the fed surprise us. that's the great unknown. i happen to think the market is priced in. the majority of what we'll see or hear tomorrow from the federal reserve. it's the fed, great mystery, secretive organization. we don't know. >> how is tim cook's apple doing after the latest iphone announcement? seems like much ado about nothing. i mean, they haven't introduced anything new in years. >> well, listen, things have got to start working. i've got a first-generation ipad. i'm ticked off with apple because things aren't working like they used to. apple needs to get it ship in order a little bit. but their less expensive phone, if you don't buy with a contract, was 550 bucks. the market was hoping they'd come out with a $350 phone to compete with android and other phones in emerging markets. in america we get subsidized contracts. most of world, you pay full

price for the phone then your plan every month. it's not seen as apple being competitive. >> brian, thank you. we'll be right back. reasonable doubt no two people have the same financial goals.

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. time to talk about what we learned. >> john heilman was well le be haifed today.

>> i'm going to be unwell behave now. two nights from now, thursday night, russet brantt wants you backstage at his show as town hall. >> well, you won't go going by yourself. that would be great. >> chaperons. >> together again. >> oh, yeah. i like it. >> won't be any different than the hallways before "morning joe." literally had a circus in the hallway when we roll into work today. >> mike, if it's way too early, what time is it? >> ordinarily time for "morning joe," but it's time for chuck todd and "the daily rundown." take it away, chuck. at the navy yard, a dozen people killed just blocks from capitol hill. we're learning more about the alleged shooter but so far very little about what pushed him to commit mass murder at a u.s. military facility in the nation's capital. this morning we'll have the latest on the investigation. we'll talk to the mayor of washington, vincent gray. ca