this is "now." twelve victims are dead and eight injured after a former navy reservist opened fire yesterday morning at the washington navy yard. what president obama called yet another mass shooting. it all began yesterday at 8:15 in the morning when the suspect aaron alexis a 34-year-old computer contractor, a man who was honorably discharged from the navy in 2011 arrived at the washington navy yard. he then made his way through security and proceeded to open fire in building 197, a workplace for 3,000 navy military and civilian personnel. alexis allegedly stood on the fourth floor of the atrium shooting victims down in the first floor cafeteria. chaos quickly ensued as fire alarms rang, hundreds of employees fled the building and first responders rushed to the scene. within minutes d.c. officers killed alexis in a firefight. authorities recovered three

weapons from the gunman. yesterday's attack marks the largest mass casualty event in the district in over 30 years but little is known about the motive behind the massacre. the fbi has posted photos of alexis on the website and is asking for the public's assistance with any information. details on his life so far are scant. in 2004 alexis was arrested for firing three rounds of gunfire through the tires of a car. police called the incident & an anger fueled blackout. alexis father told police he had ptsd. he was a navy reservist until he was given an honorable discharge. according to the "washington post" he was cited for misconduct eight times during his naval career. before the discharge he was arrested for firing a gun through the ceiling of his apartment. alexis moved to d.c. from ft. worth, texas. in washington he worked as a navy contractor specializing in

airplane electrical systems. this morning they say about the the shooting he was treated for serious mental illness and hearing voices but he was not stripped of his security clearance. yesterday's rampage marks the fifth mass shooting since newtown. this morning standing on the floor of u.s. congress senator dick durbin made a plea to his colleagues to renew the debate over gun safety. >> how could a man with that kind of background end up getting the necessary security clearance for a military contractor to go into this navy yard, to be permitted to go into this navy yard? how did he get those weapons into the navy yard? what happens yesterday brings into question some important values in america. if we value our right for ourselves and our families and our children to be safe, if we value this constitution, if we value the right of every american to enjoy their liberties with reasonable limitations, then we need to return to issues that are of

importance. >> joining me today executive editor at msnbc richard wolffe author of the new book, "the message, the reselling of president obama." author of "columbine." >> i'd like to start with you, this is obviously not the first time we've had you on the show. each time it bears mentioning we should be patient in terms of why people do things like this. given the fragments of biographical information we have thus far, what do you make of alexis and the kind of person he might have been? >> well, it's actually really early to comment on that. i think we have some ideas, but it can be irresponsible to talk too much about those. i do have kind of a different idea of one thing that all these people have in common, which is

they are seeking attention. they are always lashing out. they want to be heard, seen, known. here is something i haven't talked about on your show before, haven't talked publicly except at some seminars, i think we in the media have to look at our own role in this, because the fact that we cover these things, we put them on stage. we make, call them a hero, anti-hero, something, we give him a starring role in this. i don't think it's realistic to say we've got to stop doing this or cut back on coverage, i don't think that can happen. that's not necessarily a good thing, we can talk about this. i think we can stop using his name. i think you could have done your same intro without using the name. i've been trying it for a year on your show, it's so easy, i don't know if you noticed. i did it on rachel maddow, a whole bunch of msnbc, no one commented. call them the killer gunman,

suspect. it's easy to do. we disappear him. >> can you really disappear a crime like this? is that even possible on a national level when you're talking about a tragedy that killed 12 people. >> you don't have to go from 100% compliance. that's not the goal. i don't think that's a good thing. i'm working out an op-ed suggesting because i've been talking about this for a while. say we have a 48 hour window where there's some good to be gained by high school teachers, ex-girlfriend, has to know who this person is in life come forward. we saw that with tsarnaev brothers. >> tsarnaev brothers. >> a lot of useful information out there. we need the name out there. it can be googled. i don't think we bury or hide the information, but take it off the marquis. his name gets used sparingly for a day or two, then hold it

completely. future killers see this person was named, but for the most part he's deprived of it. he's off the stage, made anonymous. >> the other factor here, richard, this is happening now at a rate -- each tragedy is singular in its own respect. you notice the president didn't stop making his economic remarks yesterday, and the wheel turns almost to a certain degree. we'll stop and talk about this, but there's a genuine question what comes of this, what comes of this tragedy. dick durbin making comments, richard blumenthal. they are saying we need to return to the issues. there's a scepticism of the american public and inured to the idea of mass violence in the 21st century. >> that would be bizarre and strange. where this debate has shifted is that congress isn't willing to do anything. this was a mass shooting very close to capitol hill.

this is a mass shooting in a highly secure complex. the nra has the argument of the only thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with guns. plenty of good guys with guns in a d.c. navy yard. there needs to be an examination of what happened and what could be done and the policy implications of that by the people who are only three minutes away from where this terrible tragedy happened. if we all say it doesn't really matter, like 12 people, what happens when it's our neighborhood, two minutes away from your home? it's just twisted for us to ignore it. >> we should mention that also here the executive director of mayors against illegal guns. mark, thanks for joining us. to continue on richard's point about what measurably -- will there be anything that comes of this, a renewed push for gun safety, reform. as richard brings up, the argument made by wayne lapierre,

the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. there were some good guys. it seems he took those guns and used them on civilians would seem to be a fairly strong and powerful rebulges to that line of argument at the very least. >> sure. many of these situations, columbine and virginia tech, good guys have guns, too, but they are outgunned by the bad guys because of laws we have or don't have. i think what congress should consider, the public is at a tipping point not because of the one particular shooting but aggregate affect of mass shootings happening faster and faster on a grander scale. this was probably one of the top ten mass shootings in history. five or six of those have happened in the past five or six years. the reason is not we don't have policy options and don't know what to do. if you insisted everybody that the country got a background check if they bought a gun, something that takes 10 minutes and most do anyway, 70% of nra members think is a good idea

you'd stop mass shootings. also 33 members were murdered that you didn't hear about. >> this guy went out and got a shotgun the weekend before. he was at that time seeking treatment for mental illness, had been stopped by the police for incidents. he got a gun. there was some question whether he would have passed a background check since he didn't serve jail time and wasn't convicted. i'm sure the nra would use as a talking point would a background check have stopped alexis from getting a shotgun? maybe not. maybe there was nothing congress could have put in place to stop this. it's something deeper we also need to address. heather, i know we talked before this show began, i think i'm a proponent of gun safety but we need to talk about the culture of violence and here is someone playing, obsessed with violent video games. there is a thread of that that bears discussion. >> absolutely. i think that the whole issue has

to be taken from what we know in terms of psychology and human behavior. i think you're right, dave, what motivates these killers is that they are looking for attention and connection. frankly, we all are, right? that is part of the human condition. the thing that i keep calling to mind to this, what if someone like antoinette tuff, someone who walked into a georgia school building aimed armed to the hilt to kill children and she was able to stop him by looking at him, talking to him, keeping him in human connection for an hour. she was not a good guy with a guy, she was a great woman with a heart. that is the type of thing that i'm thinking alexis and every other homicidal murderer actually needs. now, i'm not saying that's all they need. mental health is at the root of this issue and we simply aren't doing enough as a country to make sure everyone has access to

mental health and they have it in their schools and throughout their lifetime. >> dave, we talked about this before i think the show began. the fact that alexis was seeking out treatment for voices in his head in and of itself i think separates him from other folks who have done things like this. >> it does. i'm really glad you talked about that. the deeply mentally ill are a small percentage. it's usually not that situation. however, most people, especially with paranoia tend to be afraid of treatment, fear repercussions. so typically if somebody is seeking that, going after it themselves, there probably is a problem. i think, heather, you really kind of nailed it. whether most of these people are depressed, deeply depressed, mental health, whatever is going on in their head, they usually have a very vague kind of motives or intentions for outcomes and they don't

really -- they haven't thought it through. they know they want to get a gun, they want to do something, they want to lash out, but they are not really clear on the purpose or how it's going to all play out. there really is an opportunity for that heroic woman to do something like that, to step in with the right voice at the right time can bring him down. what house negotiators talk to, not so much you talk him down, you listen him down. it's about hearing what's going on in his head and what his reasoning is and responding to that instead of trying to -- it's all about the responding. >> let me ask, though. alexis did not necessarily -- again, this is the day after. but from what we know, he had a girlfriend. he had a best friend. he lived with people. he wasn't engaged in sort of -- we don't know anything about his online profile but he didn't fit the traditional portrait of a missanthropy as it lined in

others. >> that's not true. four things they have in common. they are almost always male. the other queue here, nearly all of them have recently suffered what they perceive as a failure or loss. so again, we do have this here. that was one of the transcribinging things the fbi discovered -- or maybe it was the secret service -- when they looked at all the mass school shooters over 25 years. they were astounded to find 95% have that condition. that and being male is the only thing all of them have in common. what do you do with that? that's a lot harder -- that defines a lot of people. this is something where the person felt it really deeply. whether it was significant or not objectively to other people is really in consequential. it's that person -- >> to take that action. mark, in terms of the gun question, we know the family of newtown survivors were supposed

to go to the hill today. that's happening this week. is it your sense of that in combination with a greater sort of public awareness and dialogue about the issue, about the realities of gun violence, we return to it in terms of national news dialogue, that can move something forward in congress? >> sure. we and sandy hook families and other folks who care about this are having a rally in washington, d.c. thursday. we planned it before this latest mass shooting. but the timing doesn't work depending on your perspective. here is what i would say about mental illness and guns. you're absolutely right we have a mental health problem in this country and all of us, including those who produce movies and video games need to check our consciouses. here is a fact that doesn't dispute. they watch american movies, play american video games. the difference, we make it very, very easy, including people who are seriously mentally ill to

get firearms and other nations don't. the easy way to deal with this problem is look at that. longer term we have to look at mental health in the culture but gun laws are the culprit. >> to close it out mass shootings have occurred at an average of one a month since 2009, so the franlg equitiry is upward. we have to leave it there. thank you to "columbine" author. >> confirming use of chemical weapons, now the real work begins. crime and punishment when executor director of human rights watch joins us on "now." ♪ [ male announcer ] now, taking care of things at home is just a tap away. ♪ introducing at&t digital life...

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a syria deal has been announced and now the question is can it be put in place. >> if properly implemented, this agreement could end the threat these weapons pose not only of the syrian people but to the world. >> all eyes are on the united nations to see if the world body can come to an agreement on the terms of the deal struck over the weekend by secretary of state john kerry and russian foreign minister sergey lavrov. at present both sides remain at odds whether the u.n. language should include a chapter 7 resolution authorizing the use of military force should syria fail to hold up its end of the agreement. yesterday the u.n. released its highly anticipated investigation into the august 21st attack that killed as many as 1400. the report cited, quote, clear and convincing evidence that surface to surface rockets containing the nerve agent sarin

were used. though the report did not directly assign blame for the attack, weapons experts say details clearly indicate the assad regime, a point seized upon by ambassador to the united states. >> the technical details of the report make clear that only the regime could have carried out this large scale chemical weapons attack. >> moments ago u.n. secretary ban ki-moon also weighed in. >> the use of chemical weapons in syria is only the tip of the iceberg. the suffering in syria must end. next week as world leaders gather here, i'll make a strong appeal to member states for action now. >> the road ahead will undoubtedly be uphill. today russian foreign minister continued to insist rebels may have been behind the attack and

a herculean effort, one expert told the times they are cramming five or six years of work into several months. further complicating matters "the wall street journal" reports syria's government has spent the last few months scattering their 1,000 ton chemical weapons arsenal to as many as 50 sites around the country. all this is happening while fighting on the ground has intensified. with another 1,000 people killed in the past week. joining us now is the executive director of human rights watch ken roth. ken, thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure. >> i know human rights watch has, a, taken on its own study whether there was a chemical weapons attack and i want to talk to you about that. i know you're pushing for a referral the assad regime to the international criminal court. my question is there is not only pushback about any sort of punitive measure, whether icc, military intervention. the syrians will and the russians will not even admit they had a hand in this chemical

weapons attack and we are negotiating a resolution. is it premature? it seems almost unthinkable they will agree to any kind of punishment or global justice of any form. >> alex, that's exactly the problem. russia is blocking any kind of pressure on assad to stop the slaughter. the issue is not just chemical weapons. that was a horrible attack. say 1400 killed. there are over 100,000 killed with conventional weapons. russia is doing nothing with assad to stop the slaughtering of civilians. they are saying no to condemnation, arms embargo, international criminal court. they aren't even let humanitarian aid cross the border. russia is becoming the knopf nation.

>> that would be the stumbling block in all this. short of saying, okay, we'll talk about military intervention later, icc later, lets just get the rest of this done. what can we hope for? >> okay. the good news is there now is serious pressure on assad to stop using chemical weapons. these are weapons of a different order of magnitude. lets say there were 5,000 being killed in a week. the chemical weapons killed 1400 in a night. if we can stop that, that's good. now russia's credibility is on the line. we have every reason to believe assad will continue to try to cheat, tip to hide chemical weapons, but for him to use them again on that kind of scale i think would be a disaster him and something russia has committed to stop. so far, so good. but the victims of chemical weapons have no justice. the only way that happens is through the criminal court.

russia says no. russia continuing to give massive arms to the regime so it can continue its killing machine. people are starving. they are lacking medical care in rebel-held areas. russia is blocking efforts by the u.n. to do cross-border assistance. time and again the problem lands in moscow. >> we were doing a little armchair analysis before the segment began as we are want to do. there are problems with this diplomatic option. we're outlining all of them. at the same time people are arguing this outcome, if narrowly defined, if deliverable is to get them to stop using chemical weapons, we are on a more potentially successful path than military intervention. i ask you, though, as a humanist and american, do you think the country and those that care about the outcome in syria are bothered by, as ken says, the increased strikes against syrian civilians, bombing of hospitals,

tore tourituring of victims, th continues unabated. >> yes. i have a few friends from syria. it was interesting to watch online debate and traffic between my friends from middle east and from syria who are really torn. they do not want america to get into a war with syria. they are mostly incredibly, incredibly in a moment of grief and terror about what's going on to their people. they are responding to people on the american left who are knee jerk against any kind of intervention and likening it to iraq in a way that was very, very hurtful for them. it's not the same situation at all. i think we are stuck in a world where we are no longer being asked to be superman for the globe. people don't want us to be superman for the globe. at the same time we want to have

that same moral standing in the world. we don't want to act on it. we don't want to move into war wherever there is pain and suffering and war. >> we want to think of ourselves -- >> we still want to feel like we're a leader in the world. this is the question of these next couple of decades, to figure out whether we have this obama doctrine of pulling back, which i think if you look at the blood and the purse american people are with him. we haven't reckoned with the fact that we're not america of world war ii anymore. >> lets talk about that the president talked about american exceptionalism in remarks to the nation a would you weeks ago. there has been and continue to be a lot of analysis about how he has conducted himself. he spoke to george stephanopoulos and brushed off he should have a clearer line of foreign strategy at not performing with style points, that it was a matter of style

not substance. there are some that have taken issue with that, among those "the washington post." style points? seriously. style points. that's what president obama thinks the criticism of his zigzag syria policy amounts to? if this is what he really believes, it's scary. not mincing words, ruth marcus. >> he's ended up in a good position with russia given what he set his goals to be. it was not a small achievement to get russia to sign up to this agreement, and it's meaningful. it's meaningful in terms of the inspection rating. it's meaningful in the case of noncompliance where russia says there will be a chapter 7 action, that means implication of source. but getting there, if you're trying to project leadership, if you're trying to give people a message about what is acceptable in the international community, you cannot do what the president has done.

there have been too many reverse always. it's been too confusing and confused. maybe we'll forget bp. i think this is just one chapter. we'll end up in a situation in syria that will look -- this is going to outrage people, but it will look like iraq before the invasion. no-fly zone, humanitarian corridors. there will be outrages. this is not the last one. humanitarian intervention will be defended. weapons inspections. that's what happened in iraq after the first war. will it be as clean, and it wasn't that clean in iraq? probably not. this is one step along the way of the president has to clean things up as well. >> there's so many questions i have. one is assad looks at what happened to gaddafi, saddam hussein, okay, you open up your country to an international weapons inspection team, you cede control of some of your weaponry and ultimately there's only one place this path ends,

and that ends with assad no longer being in power. begin that you would think he's highly incentivized to drag his feet as long as possible, which is something those leaders also did. highly incumbent on the british, french, americans to keep up pressure. at the same time this doesn't seem like an issue that the president himself is very eager to keep putting on the front burner. >> pressure is absolutely necessary. because the chemical attack was symptomatic of assad's broader strategy not to fight the rebels but killing as many civilian as possible in a rebel-held area to show this is what you get if you side with the rebels. that broader strategy of draining the sea to get the fish, that has to be taken off. chemical weapons is one tool assad is using. we need to take the whole strategy. >> we know they are meeting in new york to draft security

council resolution. do you think banks moon helps move the ball forward at all? >> ban ki-moon has been great in terms of pushing on this. it's clear russia wants a minimum list resolution, doesn't want chapter 7, doesn't want threat, doesn't want international criminal court. it won't even say assad used the chemical weapons, which all the proof points towards. this is an uphill battle. >> one wants a blank piece of paper, the other wants a lot of stuff on it. all right. we'll leave it there. thank you for all the work you're doing at hrw. coming up, the latest of the future of egypt and democracy in the middle east. just a small discussion. ns of ts in hidden fees on their 401(k)s?! go to e-trade and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. none of them charge annual fees and all of them offer low cost investments. e-trade. less for us. more for you.

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♪ you make me, make me, make me go crazy ♪ ♪ you make me, make me, make me go crazy. ♪ it's been less than three years since arab spring swept

through egypt and swept hosni mubarak from power. the government has been overthrown and military violently seized power and consolidated control. we will talk global post charlie senate about his documentary on dipt when he joins us on "now." ♪

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most pob lsu country has returned to military rule. tonight on pbs, frontline and global post document egyptian military's violent crackdown on protesters following the july 3rd military coup. >> headed for the bridge. military on the other side. muslim brotherhood trying to shut down the bridge. >> we can see the bridge in front of us. full of civilians. they are taking part above the bridge, they high-quality fireworks to shoot at the protesters. >> this week military forces recaptured an islamist held town where former morsi supporters targeting christian minorities. against this bloody backdrop, former egyptian president hosni mubarak. co-founder and editor-at-large

of "global post" charlie, good to see you. hosni mubarak no longer in prison and egypt under military rule. has the revolution come full circle? what do you make of the situation on the ground. >> it's unfolding. revolutions take a long time. if you look at our own history it took a very long time from the boston massacre all the way to the point where we had a constituti constitution. there's a good length of time needed for this now and on the streets in egypt. a big challenge for egypt as it tries to move forward, so much has happened. i was back on the streets all summer. looking at the -- just the dramatic way in which the hope is gone, remember those great demonstrations in tahrir square or liberation square, millions of people came and brought down mubarak after 30 years of a police state. now, total violence, chaos and

where it's going to go is really a big question. ening the reason americans need to care is that we need to decide what are we really for in the region. are we for stability or are we for democracy? we had a democracy there in egypt where they democratically elect add government that didn't do so well. husband limb brotherho muslim brotherhood was a failed movement. military coup is not something all egyptians support and not something we should be supporting. >> don't some egyptians, april 6 movement founder, sort of their arab springs, we don't agree with military rule but we cannot back the radicals. there is no alternative at the moment. i hope one day egypt will have a leader that will look out for the country's interest and not just those of his clique. that sounds like resignation to the status quo. >> we know him, he was featured

in the first film with frontline and early 2011. we've been going back to the same characters. when we go back to abbas, young muslim brotherhood leader. he, too, was disillusioned by that and military. you have secular and traditional islamists who are all disappointed with where things are right now. big question, big issue that lies ahead i think for american foreign policy is how do you effectively get in there and support civil society? how do you restore the idea of democracy taking hold? a military hold, what's often referred to in egypt as deep state, this entrenched notion of the military running everything is not good for democracy and really makes everyone in egypt feel like they are pulling back to the past. >> richard, as charlie touched on, also about making americans care and making those who lead the american public feel like we need a long-term investment of some sort or at least pay

attention to what is happening in a constructive fashion because it does sort of speak to global stability and american interests in the long run. i think you look at what's happening in syria, the way that was discussed, the notion of intervention of any kind, military aid, foreign aid, the way it's discussed, it's very hard to make the case to john q. public you need to be caring about what's happening in egypt, you need to be caring about what's happening in syria. >> i think the american public has had a long-term engagement with the middle east. we may be tired and war weary but worry not about to give up on israel, strategic interests in egypt or iran. i don't see us detaching completely. we have a long record of being engaged there. there were groups actually on the ground in egypt post revolution and they got kicked out by the military, imprisoned by the military. it's extremely difficult for america to do what it does best,

"encouraging people to stand for office, understand what party organization looks like when you've got a hostile government. that was post revolutionary hostile government. not muslim brotherhood, this is military as well. how do you do it? you cannot do it at the point of a gun, and you can't do it with civilian volunteers. >> if we have a shot of doing it, it's egypt. egypt is an ally, recipient of $1.3 billion to military, the same military that moved in under morsi to arrest the heads of the civil society groups foundations trying to work on civil society. if we can't convince egypt to embolden its democracy, if we can't play a role there, we'll really in trouble. this the arab's world most populist state, key ally, neighbors israel. there's a lot at stake. i think the american public, as

you pointed out, needs to get more sophisticated about who are the islamists. the muslim brotherhood rejected violence and supports democracy, believes in it. in fact, it was elected to 40% of the parliamentary seats and its candidate was elected president. al qaeda has said we reject democracy. anyone who believes in it is a fool. you don't want to give al qaeda an argument to say muslim brotherhood was wrong to embrace democracy. >> transparency, education, awareness, the three principles we need to be furthering in so many sectors of the american public. founder and editor, always doing great work. that documentary airs tonight. >> amazing team. the camera man, marty smith, the producer. this is really two and a half years of work covering this story and staying with it. >> i assume you will stay with it, it is ongoing. thanks again for your time. >> thanks, alex.

>> coming up romney 2012 certainly had its share of issues but a look inside the president's re-election campaign describes team obama as a quagmire of infighting and suspected conspiracies. we will discuss richard wolffe's new book about the obama message four years later. ♪ [ male announcer ] now, taking care of things at home is just a tap away. ♪ introducing at&t digital life... ♪ ...personalized home security and automation... [ lock clicks ] ...that lets you be closer to home. that's so cool. [ male announcer ] get $100 in instant savings when you order digital life smart security. limited availability in select markets. ♪ limit♪d availability in select markets. (announcer) answer the call of the grill with new friskies grillers,

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♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. it's been a year to the day since the release of mitt romney's 47% video. >> 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. 47% with him who are dependent upon government, who believe they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to health care, food, you name it. that's an entitlement and the government should give it to them. they will vote for this president no matter what.

>> sometimes you make an excuse to play that video. we know what it did for team romney. we don't know what happened behind the scenes of both campaigns. we will discuss richard wolffe's book on the next four years. that's next. we've completely redone the house. it's hard to find contractors with the passion and the skill, and that's why we use angie's list. online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time with honest reviews on over 720 local services. i want it done right. i don't want to have to worry about it or have to come back and redo it. with angie's list, i was able to turn my home into the home of my dreams. for over 18 years, we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today. do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. okay. it's easy to erase any recent travel expense i want.

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the message may have worked against mitt romney but president obama's strategists had a much harder time communicating with one another. that is the scoop from richard wolffe's new book "the message, the reselling of president obama." reports david plouffe was seen as the brains, axelrod felt jim messina was up to the task and jay carney kept his head down as bullets whizzed by. the senior communications team could not commune with each other. one of their greatest successes

was to hide their own dysfunction from public view throughout most of the election cycle. richard, for a lot of us who followed that campaign very carefully in the news media, this is a pretty big revelation that it actually was, in fact, so dysfunctional inside. >> this was not the story i expected to find, i'll be honest with you. one thing you do with a campaign book, you try to get behind the headlines and what you know. there was some extraordinary. overcoming the economy was a big achievement, getting re-elected was a big achievement. that was not the full story. the full story was this really messy situation, chicago, the white house, internally in chicago. that personal dynamic was such a contrast to 2008. i do think it gives us a window into some of these repeated questions we all have of looking at this. how come they had such problems with health care, recovery act, syria, different cast of characters maybe but some of the

root causes really come from the top and they are recurring problems. in terms of actual issues where you think the team suffered or the american public suffered as a result of the dysfunction, are there cases in particular where that messiness gave short stick to the president in terms of policy. >> the campaign is judged whether they win or not. some extent, they won, so everything is great. if they had been against a halfway competent campaign on the other side, they would have been in significant trouble. one of the things i discovered was everyone said the tech team was so amazingly genius. parts of it would great, analytics, ground game, people building developmental tools, software, they messed up. they were a year late on some of their basic projects. there were huge arguments between people political, who had done campaigns before, the

people who are not political. specifically by chose people, the head tech guy came from a t-shirt company. what a great idea. romney, they all crashed. compared to people who couldn't tie shoe laces they were awesome, from people on the inside, it was far from awesome experience. >> lets be fair. fair to say the clinton white house as you mentioned a few minutes ago, not the most functional places in america. a lot of democrats say if that's what physical dunks looks like, we will take it again. >> i feel like there was something really interesting, i read an excerpt. >> it's on stands today. to be fair. but you have a line in there that really actually resonated with me. the white house only cared about 100 voters and all of them were u.s. senators. that really sort of cut me to the quick. i remember during the campaign the president had a line in '08 he used all the time, which is

i'm not going to washington -- i don't want to represent washington to you, the american people, i want to represent you, the american people, to washington. that contrasted the campaign and white house something we have to keep exploring. >> we started off the show talking about gun control of the first blow to the president in the second term was the push for gun reform laws were stopped, right, stopped in its track. one of the things they are trying to do this time around, mobilize grassroots. out of an election, move forward. turned out nra was better at it. that was a huge failing. >> outlined distaste for menning to congress. i think we're seeing that now as we talk about legislative priorities. the president would rather take the message to the american public and continue that broader campaign as opposed to person-to-person with congress. it is an ongoing sag ark, fascinating read, i haven't read

it. i will pick it up and read it tonight because it's on sale. the book is "the message." i'll see you back tomorrow noon eastern. "andrea mitchell reports" comes up next. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health. ocuvite. help protect your eye health. pull out the paper and what? another article that says investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars in hidden fees on their 401(k)s?! seriously? seriously. you don't believe it? search it. "401(k) hidden fees." then go to e-trade and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. we have every type of retirement account. none of them charge annual fees and all of them offer low cost investments. why? because we're not your typical wall street firm that's why. so you keep more of your money. e-trade. less for us. more for you.

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rampage at the navy yard. flag are flying half-staff at the white house and capital, just blocks away from this chaotic scene 24 hours earlier after a former navy reservist entered the base with a shotgun, grabbed one handgun after shooting a guard and fired randomly from a fourth floor into a food court below. >> we got a report on the fourth floor a male with a shotgun. multiple shots fired. multiple people down. >> as you can see behind us, we have a lot of personnel heading to the naval yard. >> i was running