government down. >> and we will threaten a government shutdown. >> that's not the goal here. >> unless we repeal the affordable care act. >> what does the motion look like? >> it's going to be a good deal. people will be asking what was the argument about? >> ted cruz and some of the tea party people, their object is not to win obamacare. >> they do not want the government to work on any level. any day that's a bad day for government is a cheering day for them. >> this is really a question that should be directed to mr. john boehner. >> this year is not going to be any different. ♪ here i go again on my own ♪ ♪ going down the only road i've ever known ♪ >> a familiar song to lead us into a familiar fight this fall. time for the latest act in republicans' delusional, illogical, farcical effort to defund the affordable care act this time with extra chaos. believe it or not, three years after the law was passed, a year

after it was upheld by the supreme court, and just two weeks before millions can begin shopping for insurance through exchanges, house republicans are back at it, getting set for their 42nd vote to derail the affordable care act. only this time they're trying -- they're tying its defunding to a continuing resolution to fund the government. and even speaker boehner seems to sense that this one is really getting a little tired and tawdry. >> this year is not going to be any different. we're going to continue to do everything we can to repeal the president's failed health care law. this week, the house will pass a cr that locks the sequester savings in and defunds obamacare. >> wow! it locks in the sequester, too, great! now, just because the government would shut down october 1st without action by congress, don't you go thinking that that's what the speaker wants. oh, no.

it's nothing to do with that. >> our goal here is to cut spending and to protect the american people from obamacare. it's as simple as that. we have no interest in our part in shutting the government down. jts protect the american people from the affordable care act. really? because some might not like to see it like that. like, say, the 30 million uninsured who can start applying for health coverage in two weeks. and before you say repeal and replace, congressman elijah cummings, he has a few words for you. >> republicans have taken more than 40 votes on the house floor to repeal obamacare, and replace it with absolutely nothing. there are things that we can do to improve this. but let -- and this may be hard, but this is america. we do hard things all the time. we can do this. because people's lives are dependent upon it. >> and, yet, rather than accept the law of the land, that offers

americans life-saving care and reduces the deficit, republicans have chosen to pursue a path that holds the entire economy hostage to those at the fringes of their idea logical extreme. and speaking at a business round table today, the president was having none of it. >> you have never seen in the history of the united states the debt ceiling or the threat of not raising the debt ceiling being used to extort a president or a governing party. i'm happy to negotiate with them around the budget. what i will not do is to create a habit, a pattern, whereby the full faith and credit of the united states ends up being a bargaining chip to set policy. it's irresponsible. >> that is certainly one word for it. joining us now is maryland congressman chris van holland,

top democrat on the budget committee with us from capitol hill. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> congressman, with the nation still at war, with authorities currently investigating the latest mass shooting, can you, sir, think of anything more boneheaded, idiotic and self injurious than a threat to shut down every single federal agency from the pentagon to the fbi in less than two weeks' time? >> no, martin, i can't. and what makes it even worse is in addition to first threatening to shut down the government, they then said that two weeks later they're going to do the equivalent of shutting down the economy, because they're threatening that the united states of america will not pay its bills on time. they're threatening the full faith and credit of the united states government and saying, hey, you know what, it's okay to default on our debt. so first shut down the government with all the chaos that would create. and then, you know what, just

for good order, they want to work to shut down the economy, if they don't get their way, as you say, on turning our health care system back over to the insurance industry and allowing them to once again discriminate against people based on preexisting conditions and all the other issues that we move beyond with the passage of the affordable care act. >> you know, such is the seriousness of the situation that the president, speaking at a round table this morning, gave some advice to business leaders. take a listen to this. >> make sure that you are using your influence in whatever way you can to get back to what's -- what used to be called regular order around here. doing things in a way that reflect the genuine, messy negotiations of democracy, but do not promise apocalypse every three months. >> the four horsemen of the apocalypses as you know are

messers boehner, cantor and cruz. tell me, what does it profit these individuals to so injury and jeopardize the nation for the sake of a political play that will never, ever be realized, because the affordable care act is not, under this president's tenure, going anywhere? >> well, martin, you're right. this is really an ego trip. this is a celebrity trip for a lot of these folks who go around to speak to certain very radical and extreme audiences, tell those audiences what they want to hear, whip up a lot of, you know, energy on the far right, and then try and impose that will on the entire country. and what you're seeing here in the house of representatives is that speaker boehner is no longer in control of the house. he's not even in control of his own party. he is essentially handing the keys over to the tea party wing.

and what you have as a result is a very small subsection of the country, essentially trying to call the shots and put the whole country at risk. so this is really a moment for americans of all political stripes to really pay attention to what's happening here. so we don't allow a small faction to take this country in the wrong direction and do great damage. >> but congressman, how do we resolve this impasse? because based on previous experience, it seems that we go through the catastrophe, we go into the apocalypse. we had the debt ceiling fight. we then had the sequester, which has been detriment theal to so many government departments, including those that protect this very country. i mean, are we just to assume that we head into, as it were, a hat trick of these disasters? >> no. and this is a moment in time where, really, the american people need to blow the whistle on what's happening here. >> but how does that happen,

sir? there are no elections. we can't throw ted cruz out. this just carries on. >> i know. but we now come to the point where people need to focus very clearly on who is doing what right now. and if you follow things closely, as you know, you have now got the tea party folks in the house calling the shots. what really has to happen is speaker boehner has to search some leadership over his own party. you know, one of the reasons we can't have a negotiation between the speaker and the white house is because the speaker cannot -- he can't negotiate, because he can't deliver his own side. he's trying to negotiate with his own side, and he's losing that negotiation. and, you know, it wouldn't be so bad, except this dysfunction is going to be hurting the whole country. so look, we're going to just have to keep making the case. the president made it in the clip that you ran. people need to understand what's at stake here. and hold people accountable. >> congressman, you sound

sympathetic to speaker boehner's position. and yet when i listen to some of the things speaker boehner says, it suggests he doesn't care either. let me read you what he said at a gop lawmakers meeting, a closed-door meeting today. and i'm quoting the speaker. people say a lot of things about me. people outside this room. people inside this room. i just let that is, h-i-t roll off my back. that must be nice. have another glass of merlot, have another chain smoke and not a care in the world. >> well, martin, i am -- not sympathetic with the fact that the speaker is refusing to exert leadership, right? what's happened in the last two weeks is he has gone eyeball to eyeball with the tea party wing of his party and speaker boehner blinked. what we need from speaker boehner right now is to exert some leadership. let's take comprehensive immigration reform for an example. we could pass that out of the

house of representatives today. the votes are there. we could get it to the president's desk. that could be the law of the land by midnight tonight. but speaker boehner refuses to allow the full house, the people's house to work its will, because he's got this faction of tea party members who is essentially -- he's allowing to hold them in a head grip. he has got to assert some leadership for the good of the country and not simply kowtow to the most extreme part of his party. >> congressman -- >> and we're just going to have to have everybody weighing in on this issue and shine a spotlight on what's happening. >> congressman chris van holland, thank you, sir, for shining a spotlight on the predicament of spaker boehner. one mother's anguish with the american gun epidemic. play close.

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the white house has announced the president will attend a memorial service on sunday for the 12 victims of the washington navy yard shooting. mean time, his secretary of defense has said the military will review how clearances are issued, like the one that got aaron alexis into the navy yard, despite a history of gun play and questions about his mental health. we also heard for the first time from kathleen alexis, the mother of the gunman, who offered a heart-rendering lament to her son. >> i don't know why he did what he did and i'll never be able to ask him why. aaron is now in a place where he can no longer do harm to anyone, and for that i am glad. >> but it's the anguish of

another mother that bears the full weight of the gun crisis that faces the nation. priscilla daniels buried her 14-year-old son four years ago when he was shot on the streets of washington, d.c. fast forward to monday, and she faced yet another disturbing interaction with america's gun culture. as mrs. daniels learned that her husband of 30 years, 51-year-old arthur daniels, who was working at the navy yard, was among the dead in the latest mass shooting. my husband was the one i loved through all the tragedy, she told "the washington post," until he too became a victim of this nation's violence epidemic. i can't believe this is happening again, she said. nor can any of us, mrs. daniels. coming up, today's top lines in which americans demand congress find higher ground on the issue of guns. it has to be sustained and

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breaking news like a mass shooting. >> what impact, if any, do you think that yesterday's massacre is going to have on the gun control debate? >> the kind that happens all too frequently in this. for some reason path logically unable to top them country. >> it's hard to believe that after what happened to newtown. >> to resurrect a campaign on gun control. >> nothing is going to come of this. >> why is there always this race to politicize the tragedy. >> is there a connection between video games and the shooter? >> i don't think there is a race to politicize it, except coming from the right. >> why aren't we looking at frequency per person, and also how often they're playing? >> don't bring up guns, don't mention guns. >> maybe they time out after a certain hour. >> guns have nothing to do with it. >> since 2012, our nation has endured mass shootings in pittsburgh, miami, oakland. >> i do get concerned that this becomes a ritual that we go through every three, four months. >> tulsa, seattle, wilmington, aurora. >> where we have these horrific

mass shootings. >> milwaukee, texas a&m, minneapolis, brookfield, portland. >> everybody expresses understandable horror. >> of course, newtown, connecticut, where 20 children and 6 faculty members were gunned down. >> yet we're not willing to take basic actions we know can make a difference. >> let's cut right to our panel now. joining us is my colleague, crystal ball, co host of "the cycle" and jonathan capehart. we just heard the president say we don't need to be a nation where mass shootings happen all of the time. yet we are a nation where mass shootings happen all of the time. and there is no sign anything is going change, is there? >> not at this moment. and as you're pointing out in australia, this has been widely reported, reforms to their gun laws and have not had a mass shooting since that time. so there are things that we could do. and it would be easy to despair,

because as long as there is a republican house, i agree with you and i agree with the president, nothing is going to change, because of the dynamics that exist with their base. but in this way, i think we have made progress. if we were able to take back the house and have a democratic-controlled house and a democratic-controlled senate, gun control legislation, i believe, now could pass through both those chambers. that seems unremarkable, but previously, there were a lot of rural democrats who would have stood against gun control, and i don't think that would have been possible. so in that way, we have seen real problem. real progress. >> okay. john, the newtown families held a news conference on capitol hill today, along with some of the lawmakers they're working with. here is richard blumenthal. listen to what he had to say. >> 8,000 deaths or more since newtown alone. shootings in america are becoming the new normal. the risk is that we accept the

binality of this evil in our society. >> we heard that doctor in washington, talking about the evil of guns in our society. do we just continue to accept these evils now? >> well, i think it's up to the folks on capitol hill to actually do something about it. remember in the wake of the newtown shootings, there was a lot of energy being put into coming up with some sort of gun control legislation to get through both chambers, get through both houses and get the president's signature to bring some sort of resolution to what happened there. and remember how the background checks was one of those issues that went down to defeat. and here's where the -- there's the giant disconnect between the nra, which we all know, the national rifle association wields enormous power on capitol hill. the separation between the leadership and the membership. there was a poll by the "washington post" done in april that surveyed nra membership,

whether they supported background checks. we have 74% of nra members supported a background check. 91% of all people surveyed supported a background check. so why -- how is it possible that when 91% of the country, 74% of nra members support background checks that they can't get through congress and become law of the land? it's because one entity wields enormous power over people in congress. >> yeah, but john, in april democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia said that he would revive a bill on background checks, even if it failed to pass the senate. now he says it would be, and i'm quoting him, ridiculous to try if there's not enough support. now, i put this to both of you. repealing the affordable care act for the millionth time, that's ridiculous. but i thought protecting the citizens of this nation, that was government's first job.

>> well, to put a finer point on this, i mean, i think you're absolutely right. and the more pressure that these lawmakers feel from us, the more likely they will be to at least bring a bill to the floor, and at least try. but the reason that you see that all the nuance lost in this debate is -- even though as jonathan is pointing out, you see 73, 74% of nra members supporting background checks, what the nra does is they choose their candidate in a race and before election day, they send out these little postcards that say this person is with us and this person is against us. so all the nuances of our debate, of reasonable reforms that the vast majority of americans support is out the window, and it just becomes us versus them. >> right. john, we saw the ceo of starbucks come out today and say guns are not welcome at starbucks anymore. does that give us a sign as to what people can do in a way -- in spite of of the failure and gridlock of congress to do something, just not to accept this continuing evil of mass

shootings, and even individual shootings on a daily basis? >> absolutely. as we were saying in the wake of the newtown shootings earlier this year, it's going to take individual effort, and a lot of people -- everyday people who are fed up with the gun violence in the nation as a whole and in their communities in general to rise up against the insanity that makes it impossible for there to be any kind of gun -- any kind of gun violence legislation to come out of washington. so you have this ceo of starbucks do his part. there are other people doing their parts around the country. and i think the most important thing for people to understand is, this isn't something an issue or problem that can be solved overnight. this is something that requires a sustained effort on behalf of people who care about this issue, but also on -- on the part of the american people who really want something done. it's not going to happen in one week or one month. we're looking at something that's probably going to take years. and it's only going to happen if people keep at it.

>> yeah. krystal, the united states has the highest number of guns in the world amongst its populus and also the highest level of gun violence. japan has the lowest number of guns and the lowest level of gun violence. is there a correlation there at all? >> i think if you look at the research, you can see that there are certain gun laws that if we had in place, it would make a huge difference, both in terms of mass shootings and in terms of the overall level of violence. >> might continue to tell us, krystal, it's not about the weapons, nothing to do with the guns. >> they do tell us that. if we're waiting for our legislators to have courage on this issue, i think we can stop holding our breath. really, it comes back to us, to the population making this issue so hot on the side of gun control that legislators cannot resist. and it is in their political interest to bring these issues to the forefront and pass legislation. >> absolutely. krystal ball, jonathan capehart, thank you so much, both of you. >> thanks, martin. coming up, climate change, sequester and benghazi. oh, my. it is a busy hump day in

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a belated welcome to wednesday. known in places of work across the country as hump day. and after a six-week recess and with very real economic deadlines looming and the opportunity to score some oh cheap political points in washington, there is the unmistakable sound of the thumping of chests. yes, there was a hearing of the house armed services committee on the sequester, wherein the chairman told top military leaders their credibility is, quote, on the line, if they could not provide greater detail about the impact of the sequester cuts on security. there was a hearing of the house oversight and government reform subcommittee, where house republicans variously questioned the validity of climate change and the obama administration's attempt to confront it. and, of course, what wednesday

would be complete in the house without a hearing on benghazi. where some lawmakers offered stale criticism like this. >> let us hope this hearing is a step forward in our effort to break down what i consider to be a wall of deceit and denial. >> hope springs eternal, but have no fear, there was some democratic members eager for the opportunity to answer the charge. >> ambassador, are you familiar with the term "second-guessing." have you heard that term before? >> yes, sir. >> what about the term "2020 hindsig hindsight" have you heard that term before? >> yes, sir. >> and how about the term "monday morning quarterbacking" have you heard that term before? >> yes, sir. >> good. i yield the rest of my time. >> and we're only halfway through the week and you won't be surprised to learn that two more benghazi hearings are scheduled for thursday, including get another to be hosted by the one-note melody man himself, congressman darrell issa.

coming up, the knives are out. but who is back-stabbing who? >> if the government is shut down, it will be president obama who shut down the government. if [ phil ] when you have joint pain and stiffness... accomplishing even little things can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. you should not start enbrel

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and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. that's why we partnered with hp to build the new nascar fan and media engagement center. hp's technology helps us turn millions of tweets, posts and stories into real-time business insights that help nascar win with our fans. . house speaker john boehner this morning was asked by a reporter whether he had lost control over his conference over budget negotiations. rather than answer the question directly, the speaker decided to deliver a discourse on the true meaning of leadership and his true mentor. >> the key to any leadership job is to listen. and i was here during the gingrich era. he had a little plaque that was in his office. and it was -- it was a management model.

listen, learn, help and lead. we listen to our colleagues over the course of the last week, we have a plan you're happy with, you're going forward. >> unfortunately, they're happiness may spell your demise, mr. speaker. as your democratic colleague, chris van holland noted, no one is taking your rules on leadership very seriously these days. >> speaker boehner is no longer in control of the house. he's not even in control of his own party. he has essentially the keys over to the tea party wing. >> joining us now is clarence page, a columnist for "the chicago tribune" with us from washington and josh barrow, politics editor, and steve core naki, my colleague and host of "up." steve, how frightened should the nation be that john boehner is now modeling himself on newt gingrich. >> well, newt gingrich's relationship with the base and newt gingrich's relationship with the republican members of the house is very different than john boehner's. john boehner is subservient to

his members when it came down in 1995 wasn't. the problem is when boehner says he has a plan his members are happy with, i question that. because you have two -- basically, he's decided they're going to try to get this resolution through with 218 republican votes. he's decided we're not going to get a single democratic vote. two sources of pressure now within the republican party. the first is the true believer, hard right tea party types like justin amash from michigan. >> we're coming to him later. >> mike fitzpatrick, more of a moderate from the suburbs of philly says he can't support it either. he's looking from the position of the general election. he doesn't want to be associated with a republican instigated shutdown of the government. if you lose a few votes over here and a few votes over here and only have about 12 to spare to begin with, you're good to have a hard time to get a two-way team. >> wow. josh, the markets are up today on news that the fed is going to continue with its current policy on quantitative easing and the buying of bonds. but there was an implicit dig at

congress in the fed's remarks. now, why was that? >> yeah, well, ben bernanke when he had his press conference this afternoon said one of the reasons they couldn't stop on the quantitative easing, there was down side risk in fiscal policy. what he means by that, congress might really screw things up again, either by shutting down the government or by bringing us very close to the debt ceiling. bernanke talked explicitly in the press conference how those sorts of actions would slow the economy. and he said the feds' ability to offset that is limited. he's being modest there. the fed really has done a lot over the last three years to undo damage that congress has been doing. but i think he's looking at this congress and seeing as it's been for the last five years, fiscal policy isn't working. the congress is not doing what it needs to, so the fed needs to be more aggressive than they would like to be. >> so he's almost acting like the only adult in the room. children behaving as they are. >> absolutely. as you know, the guy who has basically single handedly keeping the u.s. out of recession the last five years. people give bernanke way more crap. >> i agree. clarence, why do republicans from what josh has said, think a

debt ceiling fight that failed two years ago and contributed to the country's downgraded credit rating, why would that work now? why would that work this time around? >> well, as josh knows very well, this is dividing republicans. because there are the practical, pragmatic republicans and there are those who just want to make an ideological point. this sort of fight, fighting to repeal obamacare, fighting against raising the debt ceiling, is very popular with donors and contributors out there. and it's like -- in this post earmark era, the funding apparatus and the lines of power and clout are very different than what they were back in newt gingrich's day. >> and steve, to clarence's point and robert costa in the national review has written business has boomed since the push to defund obamacare caught on. conservative activists are lighting up social media, donations pouring in, and e-mail lists are growing. so that feels to me a bit like a hedge fund that spends money on

something that they know is a crappy deal, but they back it anyway because they're going to make money off the insurance policy they have taken out. same principle. >> there have been a lot of people who have written about this. the conservative marketplace is very dysfunctional. very possible in today's republican universe to be very successful in terms of your clout, in terms of your prestige, all within this closed bubble. your clout, your prestige, your -- the money you're making, your future prospects for employment, leadership. without winning a national election. >> and the nation can go to hell, though. >> yeah, i mean, essentially, you can exist in today's republican party without a strong national republican party approval rating, without winning a presidential election, without having control of the senate. you control the house and you -- you basically have an incentive to be the voice of purity in the party, the one massing the tea party folks against the establishment, against the people who would sell you out. and you will get rewarded for that more than you will standing up saying this is not a smart thing for our party. >> and yet, josh, to steve's point, poor boehner can't please anyone, can he, because we have

just heard from justin amash, congressman, and he tweeted, i can't support proposed cr, it's a #stealthdebtlimithike. it exempts interests from debt limit, effectively raising debt limit permanently. the man can't please anyone. >> no. and i think he's gotten very frustrated in what he's doing here. basically he and various cooler heads in the republican party have been trying to explain that the defund obamacare strategy isn't going to work. and ted cruz and these various money groups are saying no, it will work. so i think boehner is basically saying, okay, fine. let's try this and see if it works. i think he finds the only way he can explain to his base that their strategy won't work is to try it. >> to prove that it's failed. >> right. but the problem is, then you have to actually trigger the political disaster. >> correct. >> i think -- i really now think he's going to have to go to a government shutdown. how do you explain to conservatives that a government shutdown doesn't work without

actually shutting down the government and finding that it doesn't work. i don't think on september 28th, two days before the shutdown is supposed to happen, he's going to be able to convince them, okay, this plan didn't work, now let's cut a deal with nancy pelosi. >> clarence, do you agree with josh? we are now actually on the bases of boehner's failure to lead, heading for a literal shutdown? >> well, i was talking to a white house source last night who gave it 60/40 in favor of there being a shutdown and the white house is not rooting for it. this is not something that either side benefits from, really. but certainly politically we saw the experience and john boehner saw it with newt gingrich back in the '90s when they had back-to-back government shutdowns. bill clinton benefited and yet seems like a lot of people don't remember history very well these days. >> true. >> but there is also -- not just they don't remember history. there is this very intentional revisionist history taking place on the right where the 1995 government shutdown has become the seminole event in conservati

conservatism, this triumphant -- anybody who lived through it can tell you that's not what happened. >> how many presidential elections republicans have lost since then as a result? >> they have lost the popular vote in all by one. >> thank you. clarence page, josh, steve core naki, thank you very much. you can catch up with steve every weekend at 8:00 a.m. congress may have given up on guns but some americans refuse to take no for an answer. we'll introduce you to one crusader, straight ahead. okay ladies, whenever you're ready. thank you. thank you. i got this. oh, no, i'll get it! let me get it. uh-uh-uh. i don't want you to pay for this. it's not happening, honey. let her get it. she got her safe driving bonus check from allstate last week. and it's her treat. what about a tip? oh, here's one... get an allstate agent. nice! [ female announcer ] switch today and get two safe driving bonus checks a year

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i do get concerned that this becomes a ritual that we go through every three, four months, where we have these horrific mass shootings. >> it has become a familiar

ritual. a modern american lit urgency. first a mass shooting followed by grief and public outrage followed by literally no action whatsoever to prevent the next one. after the murder of 20 elementary school children in newtown last december, hopes were raised. surely such a schoolhouse massacre would prompt some kind of action. and although 90% of the country supports standard background checks, the senate proposed a bill, the manchin/toomey bill, which would at least have been a first step toward keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them. such as felons and the mentally ill. sadly, and infamously, that bill failed to make it out of the senate. in an interview today -- sorry, yesterday -- the president placed the blame squarely on the shoulders of those who are responsible. >> the overwhelming majority of the american people understand there is some common sense gun safety laws that we can put in

place. that could prevent some of this tragedy from happening. i've taken steps that are within my control. the next phase now is for congress to go ahead and move. >> so what has congress done about gun safety since that vote failed? nothing. absolutely nothing. for more now, i'm pleased to be joined by pierre kerraseason, executive director of americans for responsible solutions. good afternoon to you. >> afternoon, martin. >> you were working for congresswoman gabby giffords when she was shot, along with several others, six of whom died. given that we have witnessed the murder of children, the murder of school students, the murder of university students, the murder of public servants on a military base, shouldn't we basically conclude, it really doesn't matter what happens with gun violence. the congress is simply unprepared to do anything about it. >> it is seeming that way.

and it's -- it's very disturbing. i mean, over 90% of the country, for example, supports the idea of expanding the simple process of getting a background check before buying a firearm so criminals and the mentally ill don't get access to these dangerous weapons. but congress can't seem to even have an honest discussion about it. and that's the most disturbing thing, is that we can't have an environment, it seems right now, at least, where our elected leaders can debate these issues in the open, based on facts and metrics and data, rather than this sort of heated political rhetoric that we hear from both sides. but these days mostly gun lobby. and that's sort of why we're in this business, trying to bring some moderation and sense to a topic that for a very long time has been -- has been overrun by extreme rhetoric that really is not based on fact. >> so pia, is it your view that the atmosphere has been poisoned by the nra? >> i mean, it's not just the nra. you know, there is plenty of

different members of the gun lobby. today we're seeing the -- you know, national association for gun rights, you know, protesting the idea that certain senators are talking about passing a bill to address mental health issues. and that's just very stripped down version of what we think could be done in our public policy sphere. but already we're seeing, you know, members of the gun lobby extreme sides, extreme voices here, saying we shouldn't even be having that discussion. and i just think that's out of step with most persons. people are sick and tired of these mass shootings, they don't want to send their kids off to school and be afraid they're not going to come back or -- >> absolutely. >> or go to the grocery store like gabby and her constituents were and have one of these issues. so really, we need to do something about this. >> okay. so tell us. what's the most significant factor that is preventing congress from doing the will of the people on gun control? >> it's -- i think it's the

destruction of the political process, where there is so much fear that these folks won't be re-elected, that they're unwilling to even have an honest discussion. and that is not what the american people want when it comes to how we conduct ourselves in congress. legislators, you know -- for example, in missouri, the state senate was -- nullify -- federal law and put an end to background checks in missouri. so we're seeing some courage in the house. we saw the recall of two state senators who fought for gun control and future of gun control in colorado is unclear. so it can be a challenging thing to stand up and say something about gun safety, even in state legislators. >> no, you're right. it's a mixed bag. but in colorado, i just want to point out, that law stands today, the good progress made in

colorado, it's too bad those folks were called. but we can get into that. recalls are very different elections than normal elections and there is a lot to see there. but the point is the law stands in colorado and the very next day, missouri did the right thing by protecting their community. so, again, we're seeing it out in the state level. but in congress, where you have the influence of the gun lobby, the heavy money coming in, that bullies and badgers these people into not even being able to have a conversation, that's just not right. >> well, to your point, pia, here's what senate majority leader harry reid had to say on the issue. take a listen. >> we're going to move this up as quickly as we can, but we've got to have the votes first. we don't have the votes. i hope to get them. but we don't have them now. >> you heard harry reid there wanting to move this up the agenda, conceding that he doesn't have the votes but we do need some kind of optimism, because even the president on

the day of the shooting sounded as if he had given up. >> well, i don't think he's given up and i don't think the american public is giving up on the idea that we can do better as a country to keep our community safer. the fact is, congress is in a terrible position right now. very little progress is being made on much as the country knows. and, you know, the senate is doing with, you know, a potential government shutdown and budgetary issues that are of extreme importance to the general business of america. but, you know, this issue is not going away. and i think some people are hoping it does. but it's just not. for no other reason than these mass shootings are not going to stop. i mean, we wish they would. but they're obviously not. the navy yard shooting was one of the worst shootings in this country's history, some of the worst violence and loss of life in the city of washington. unfortunately, this is just continuing to happen. and if we don't as a public and country address this issue, we'll be in a very bad position. >> pia caruso, americans for

responsible solutions, thank you so much. >> thanks, martin. we'll be right back. but first, a look at my colleague, ann curry's, exclusive interview with the newly elected president of iran. >> mr. president, president obama has revealed that you and he have exchanged letters. could you please describe the tone of those letters? ♪ my name is mike and i quit smoking. chantix... it's a non-nicotine pill. i didn't want nicotine to give up nicotine. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. [ mike ] when i was taking the chantix, it reduced the urge to smoke. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems,

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so then we can go do, absolutely nothing. let's do this. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. this echo blower. just $159 bucks. final word now on one of the most fragile in international relationships. ann curry sat down for an exclusive interview with hasan rowhani who told nbc news that his country will never develop nuclear weapons under his administration. it is with that headline among other comments that one could be cautiously optimistic about a measure of improvement in relations between the united

states and iran. >> mr. president, president obama has revealed that you and he have exchanged letters. could you please describe the tone of those letters? >> translator: president obama wrote a letter to me. in that letter, he congratulated my election. and some issues of his interest were raised in that letter. i responded to that letter. i thanked him and expressed the islamic republic of iran's viewpoint on the issues president obama raised in his letter. and some other issues. from my point of view, the tone of the letter was positive and constructive. >> and he certainly sounds like an improvement on ahmadinejad and you can watch much more of ann curry's exclusive interview tonight on "nbc nightly news" with brian williams and, of course, on nbcnews.com. thank you so much this afternoon

for watching us. coming up next, right now is "the ed show." with my friend, ed schultz. good evening, my friends. let's get to work. >> nothing will kill obamacare faster than, in fact, a series of mistakes. i, for one, no, ma'am at one of those people who said i'm going to kill obamacare, i'm going to in a machiavellian way attempt to delay or deny. i voted against the affordable care act. i want to remind all of us of something we may have forgotten. this is the law. hello, this is the law. >> do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? >> every witness invited by the majority here today represents a state government that is openly obstructing