>> they might be cutting back. one more. >> carmike says kleenex. i never knew what a tissue was growing up. >> coke, q-tip. you name the whole you don't say cotton swab. heinz ketchup, obviously and the jolly green giant, another that natalie probably had commercials before she was born. "morning joe" starts now. >> we have now put together a segment that we hope will give the legislative bodies in washington the incentive they need to get together. it's called united states congress, finding common ground. ♪ >> i love horses. >> i love horses. >> i love horses. >> i love monkeys. [ buzzer ] >> my gosh. they can't even do that.

top of the hour, 6:00 on the east coast. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, september 24. with us on set we have national affairs editor for new york magazine and msnbc political analyst john heilb man and donny deutsch is here. we have associate of the washington post eugene robinson as well. joe, good morning. >> good morning. what a line-up. donny deutsch? we'll just stop there. i undercut my entire premise right there. >> oh, boy. >> before you go further, joe, it's sad. >> willy, do me a favor. take off my glasses. take off my glasses from donny and my hair cut. just take that off. seriously. he's going to be wearing these sweaters soon. it's creepy.

>> i know you try to deflect what you know is troubling news but i have to share it as you eat your double egg mcmuffin. do you know burger king is introducing a lower fat the french fry? what's happening to this country? >> we don't want that. >> i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the wheels are coming off. >> actually, speaking of the wheels coming off, how did the show start this way? >> that's not real. you made it up. [ hissing ] >> either called satis-fries. >> you're making that up. >> they have a burger you can buy with fries already in it. >> now that is innovation. >> order is restored. >> a bugrger, mound of fries, bun. >> can you get cheese?

>> i'm going to be sick. >> america is back. >> the pulitzer prize winner. >> mika, we have given donny enough time. >> thank you. the debate over funding the government including republican opposition to obamacare is officially under way on capitol hill. harry reid will reportedly move forward with the spending levels proposed by house republicans and, as expected, remove any language to defund the president's health care law. the first vote could come wednesday. did eugene just moan? >> i said "duh". >> yesterday senators reid and ted cruz debated on the senate floor. take a listen. >> any bill that defunds obama and his health care plan is dead on arrival in the senate. we are not going to bow to tea party anarchists. america will know who to blame.

republicans, fanatics in the house and senate. >> i wish the majority leader had not objected to doing so right now. i wish the majority leader had not said he intends to continue to use the threat of a default to engage in brinksmanship to force obamacare on the american people. >> i think the law was -- okay. minority leader mitch mcconnell and the senior editor announced they would not support a filibuster. and the hill points out the defund obamacare movement will likely play a significant role in the mid-term elections. nearly every republican expected to run supports the effort to strip funding for the affordable care act. meanwhile a new cnbc poll finds 59% of americans oppose shutting down the government because of obamacare. even if the threat of a shutdown is removed, 44% still oppose

gutting the 2010 health care law. something we were talking about yesterday. president obama will officially begin the roll-out of the affordable care act today with a conversation, joe, with former president bill clinton. don't you think that will start helping? >> i doubt it. >> i do. >> let's talk about the news today. the republican party and more importantly the conservative movement has really started to coalesce around the idea that losing elections is a bad thing, pissing off the american people is back-to-back bad and winning elections is good. we have talked about adopting a strategy that could never work because we have to count to 51 in the senate and have barack obama defund his own bill to make it work. tom coburn came on the show and said it makes no sense to run

into fixed bayonets and lose the battle. scott walker said the same thing. paul ryan said the same thing. charles krauthammer said the same thing. the mother ship of the american conservative movement, "the wall street journal," has written an editorial. in it, they, too, warn against conservatives running into fixed bayonets, talking about how ted cruz and mike lee have been more interested in saying exactly what we have been saying and what house members on the hill have been telling us all along and conservative champions have been saying all along. this has never been about defunding obamacare and shutting down the government. it's been about ted cruz getting on cable tv more, as the "wall street journal" says and expanding his mailing lists. he's been called out. he's been ex posed.

i for one am very glad the conservative movement from tom coburn. is he a rhino? if he is, i want to be one. krauthammer? count me in that group. scott walker, paul ryan? these people locked themselves into a little, little room. it's a room that the people jammed inside that room, they don't carry majorities, not in presidential campaigns, not in senate campaigns, not in congressional campaigns. mika, this is an important moment for the republican party and the conservative movement. this is a moment when the party and the movement decided, hey, you know what? we'll be responsible and we're going to engage in tactics that have a chance of working, helping the american people, and winning presidential elections. i, for one, very happy. >> here is what the "wall street journal" editorial board writes.

the cruz campaign against obamacare, when mr. cruz demands that house republicans hold firm, he means they should keep trying to defund obamacare even if it results in a shutdown that president president obama will blame on republican uhs. it's nice of him to volunteer house republicans for duty. the supposedly in tre pid general cruz can view the battle from h.k. while the enlisted troops take casualties. the only real way to repeal the law is to win elections. our strategy would be to conduct an island hopping campaign that attack it is law's vulnerable parts to help win those elections. we have lost this debate. generals cruz and lee are in charge. if things don't go well, let's not hear any excuses about the surrender caucus or claims that t it would have all worked out if only everyone were as brave and principled as the generals up at hq. joe ? >> hard to believe, john, how

stupid ted cruz believes not only the american people are, but members of his own republican caucus. after getting exactly what he asked for, then turning the rhetorical guns on members of the house. after talking about shutting down the government for months after running 30-second ads, then holding a press conference after he figured out the house of republicans would call his bluff and say, you know, obamacare is not really worth a shutdown. there is really nothing we can do. we have to win a couple more elections. he got backed into a corner. his biggest mistake was backing himself into his own corner by conservative members of his own party. they have all turned against him. >> he is the least popular ebb member of the united states senate right now. but, as you said, joe, it's nuts what he's done. it's been a fun-filled year for ted cruz. he's gotten more attention than any freshman senator i can remember in the longest time.

if the wall street journal, you and others were right that this is -- and i think you are -- about building his mailing list, his national profile, building a brand as an outsider. somehow playing the game of i'm in the u.s. senate but i'm an outsider, and get over cable tv he h's accomplished a lot over the last nine months, but the truth is he climbed out on a very long branch and now has found himself with nowhere to go. whether this is a good long-term play for him or not, job. he may fall to the ground with a loud thud. >> h he's an outsider. willy, he is an outsider. h he's an outsider in the united states senate. he's an outsider that went the to harvard, that went to princeton. h he's an outsider that worked on presidential campaigners. such an outsider that when he

went to law school he rethe fused to study with anybody that didn't go to yale, harvard or princeton. a real man of the people. >> the thing about being an outsider in the senate is when you have moments like this you need friends to get vote s to push this through. not good to stand by yourself in the corner of the chamber. you mentioned harvard and prince ton. he was called the distinguished wako bird from texas. one of his law school roommates said the elite academic circles that cruz was now traveling in began to rub off. as a law student at harvard he re fused to study with anyone who hadn't been an undergrad at harvard, princeton or yale. he said he didn't want anybody from, quote, minor enor ivies" h penn or brown. >> did he mention alabama?

is that a minor ivy. >> i take major offense to that. >> florida? southern state schools? can he study with ted cruz? are we too dumb for him? >> this guy is so disliked by other republican senators it was interesting. chris wallace had him on sunday and said he'd never had a week with so many unsolicit ted pieces of research and questions to ask him to trip him up. this guy is repulsive. you said americans are not stupid enough to buy into him. 40% of americans, 4 of 10, almost half, would rather see the government shut down, not understanding what that would do to their iras and mortgage payments, than fund obamacare. >> i didn't see that. >> that's crazy. >> i saw a cnbc poll that said 19% of americans would support that approach and 5% are opposed

to it. what's on twitter and some of the blogosphere they will present a false choice. you are either with ted cruz and this asinine plan, as the journal says, of running into fixed bayonets or you are with obamacare. that's not the case. i have been against obamacare from the beginning. krauthammer has, coburn, scott walker. all of the people h he calls members of the surrender caucus. we we are all against obamacare. we think it is bad for america, bad for business, the wrong way to deliver health care to america. we think there is a better way to do it. that doesn't mean we have to agree with one of the stupidest tactics i have ever seen in modern american b politics. to run into fixed bayonets.

this is, again, willy geist, this is like someone looked at old films of bud wilkinson and said the coach was great, he won 5 straight games in h a row and deid sided last night since the wishbone worked for bud, we'll implement the wishbone h in the nfl in september of 2013. it's a tactic that won't work. it's obvious on its face. >> it's a tactic that won't work, gene, and it allows harry reid to not address concerns about obamacare. it allows reid to call republicans anarchists, nancy pelosi to call republicans arsonists. that's the frustration. the republicans are all painted with the ted cruz brush. >> they are. they can all count to 51 and

understand this is creating a huge unnecessary vulnerability for them and they are going to get slammed. i have a question for our image experts -- >> oh, great. >> donny and joe. >> when did joe -- excuse me. >> joe was in congress. here's the question. suppose ted cruz wakes up this morning, slams himself in the forehead h and says, i'm such an idiot. >> chances of that happening are nil. >> i know. it won't happen. but, you know, in a parallel universe, suppose it happened. how does he climb down from this? does he just come out and say, i was wrong, play it out to the end. >> gene, this has started. it started last week when the house passed the c.r. that defunded obamacare. ted cruz knew the house republicans called his bluff. he immediately scurried over to

the house and in effect said, hey, listen, i have been talking big, but i'm not going to be able to do anything in the senate. so basically as the journal said, i will be shouting orders from headquarters in the senate. if you people don't hold the line over here then you're failures. that started last week. that's why the conservatives in the house caucus all exploded at the end of last week. then, you know, b he started saying, we have to win it in elections. forget the town hall meetings where he riled people up. forget the fact that i had republican members of congress had offices shut down for days with people calling in, following my suggestions on tv. i can't do any of that. we're going to need more elections to change this. he tried to come off of the limb last week and republicans who had been the target of his attacks, you know, they went

after him. donny deutsch, that's a problem. he doesn't have a lot of people in his corner. he's been attacking the conservative republicans in the house. >> here's the sad answer, gene. joe, you touched on it i earlier in the cable age. he doesn't have to come down. he doesn't have to do a me mea culpa. he gets to say, i'm brave. i'm the outsider -- the princeton, yale, harvard outsider -- and i'm a team player and i will go with the flow. somebody has to speak up. it's the rand paul strategy. guys that come out of nowhere and yak, yak, yak, to the extreme degree and never held accountable other than he's an outside agitator, speaks his mind. >> do you mean like barack obama who came out of nowhere and a couple years later people elected him president of the united states? is that what you mean? >> exactly what i mean.

>> yeah. that's the problem. people come out of nowhere, mika. >> okay. >> barack obama was against the war. they sold him like he was a bag of potato chips, marketed him. he becomes president of the united states and everybody thinks he can be elected to the -- >> are we making this parallel. >> we are. i can tell you this. barack obama has proven over the past five years he wasn't ready to be president of the united states. he proves it still today. >> they both came out of nowhere but i think there is a difference between a guy votinging against the war which a lot of smart people did and in hindsight seemed to be the right decision. >> he didn't vote against the war. >> he didn't vote against it. donny deutsch, he gave a speech in a district -- a state senate district where it was the safest

position to take in the world. let me ask you one question, donny. >> you can ask me two. >> i want to ask one question about barack obama. donny, name me the major piece of legislation barack obama passed in the united states senate that would suggest he knew how to work in the united states senate and would be an effective president of the united states? >> i think he was there less than two years. >> donny, he was there for four years. answer my question. >> he was in the state senate. >> joe. >> he got elected in 2004. >> joe. >> i'm not debating he came out of nowhere. what i'm challenging you on is to -- >> one piece of legislation. >> extremist views of a ted cruz, it's different. >> donny, i'm asking you a question. i know as someone who loves me -- this is like a scene in "breaking bad" where i'm walter white's wife asking if you

cooked meth. name one piece of barack obama passed that would suggest barack obama knew he knew how to work with other people better than ted cruz. >> just admit that you cooked the meth. >> no! >> you just admitted you cooked it. >> one guy was a lunatic, one had a sane level of thinking. >> to go back to the topic before which was the question of the conservative coalescence. mika read a thing from the hill which said although it's true that a lot of people -- and you uh had a list of people who decided cruz is wrong in the strategy. according to the hill all the republicans who were running for senate in 2014 think the defund is the right strategy. doesn't seem there is unanimity that cruz is a wacko bird.

there is force that obamacare should be defunded. the pro defund movement, everybody running for senate in 2014 is on cruz's's side. >> they are. there have been months of 30-second commercials. these people are protecting themselves with their base. i suspect as this moves on you will see other people moving away from the the position. there is no doubt there are members on the hill, leaders on the hill of the conservative movement that are in the republican study group that moved away from the fixed bayonets position that, as the wall street journal says. even these people say i may pay for it in a primary down the road. we'll pay more as a party if we shut down the federal government and have absolutely no reason to do that. listen. even people being critical of

ted cruz are concerned about their base. so it's going to take a couple more weeks before the fog clears. no doubt about it. >> the parallel with the president is unfair. can anyone name a president who passed health care? no. can you name presidents who tried? yes. no one has been able to do it. >> mika, what's your favorite piece of legislation the president passed. >> health care actually. >> when he was in the senate? >> if you think of what the feat of that was in this country and you don't. do you really think it should be completely defunded and start all over again? >> no. >> do you think people shouldn't have access to health care? can we get back to what this is about? ridiculous. you can't make a parallel between ted cruz and president obama. >> i certainly can. i certainly can. you have people who come out of nowhere, get in the senate. they don't want to be in the

senate. they don't want to work for the people that hired them. they start running immediately for president of the united states, a week after they get to the senate. harry reid said to barack obama early, you don't like it here. it's b obvious. why don't you run for president. he was already on his way there. yes. i can make that comparison. let me put in marco rubio. here is a guy who could be a great united states senator from my home state. but the second he got in, he immediately started running for president. i think it hasn't served him well. >>le like joe kennedy. >> you can go one after another after another. this doesn't the work. the barack obama way does not work. our own party, our own republican party needs to understand that. >> all right. >> jack kennedy also startsed running for president immediately. >> coming up, david axelrod and james carville will join us. also, former prime minister tony

blair and a founding member of the band metallica. >> who doesn't fit in that picture? >> lars! >> lars could run for president. i have no problem with that. >> up next, the top stories the politico playbook including the closely watched virginia senate race. first a check on the forecast. >> good tuesday morning. the one state that typically gets beautiful weather isn't getting it today. that's the sunshine state. florida will get drenched. if you are in tampa, orlando, the i-4 corridor, heavy rain moving in along with thunderstorms, even this morning. tampa especially we could see significant delays at the airport. even in orlando, especially mid-morning to the afternoon, you will get drenched with heavy rain. miami and new orleans, just scattered storms. for you especially later this afternoon into the early evening. as far as the forecast goes out there for the rest of today, we are watching a gorgeous, gorgeous afternoon. it's a chilly morning in new england. this afternoon will be

fantastic. chicago, kansas city, dallas, denver. it's a beautiful september day. one thing of spres. our european computer model is send ing a storm system at the east coast as we go through sunday into monday. we'll watch that. our american computer model doesn't show that. we'll see which is right. if anyone has weekend plans on the eastern seaboard i will uh keep you updated on that throughout the week. you're watching "morning joe" on this tuesday. americans take care of business.

they always have. they always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach. 28 past the hour. i like the headline in usa today, for crackberry addict, hand held heart ache. let's look at the morning papers. new york times, a retired fbi

agent will plead guilty to charges he leaked classified information to the a.p. about a terrorist bomb plot in yemen. investigators secretly got telephone records of reporters. also national security documents on his computer. he'll spend 12 years in prison. joe ? >> wow. from the parade of papers, the boston globe. blackberry announced its largest shareholder will buy the handset maker for $4.7 billion. the news is long in the making after blackberry reported a billion dollar loss and laid off more than 4,000 employees. shareholders will be getting $9 in cash for each share. >> the washington post, the irs official at the center of the tea party controversy has resigned. lois lerner refused to testify to congress about the agency's screening of tea party groups during the 2010 and 2012 elections. her retirement comes as the review board was determining if

she should be fired. she was placed on paid leave in may. republicans in congress say the irs investigation will continue. >> and the seattle post intelligencer, dick cheney caused a scene when his gun wouldn't fire. he h jokingly blamed the mishap on oh remington after being mocked. his teammate matt immediate said he hoped the former vice president would return next year. i have no idea why we put that in the list of news stories other than a lot of hateful people inside the control room that just don't love america. me what's next? >> the telegraph. a russian history book will dedicate an entire chapter to vladimir putin. the textbook will be used in russian schools. >> will there be photographs? >> there you go. >> o yeah. >> nice. >> the books for commissioned by

putin himself this year. >> oh, babe. >> he's against the idea of a whole chapter devoted to him. >> i'm sure. >> sources say putin feels it's too early, quote, to le valuate his initiatives. wow. >> maybe they could do a chapter on all the journalists that have been associated with by putin's people. that would be interesting. the usa today, winner of last week's powerball drawing came forward to collect the prize but wants to be anonymous. that's just the way i am. it was purchased in lexington, south carolina. one of a happenedful of states that allow winners to keep their names private which is why i go to south carolina to buy my tickets. this marks the fourth largest jackpot ever valued at $400 million. i have no idea how i will uh spend that money. >> taking the lump, joe. i assume? >> of course i am!

i can have the $4 million or $14.75 this week. i'll the take the money now. >> take it now. >> let's go to politico and talk. >> look who's here. mike allen with look t at the play book. >> whoa. >> good morning. >> whoa! >> great to have you here. let's talk about the virginia senate race -- no, the governor's race. we have no polls that said mcau uh liff is pulling away, wu in the post it's five points. likely seven or eight. where do we stand? >> we are see ing movement. this reflects what the campaigns said for a long time is the reality. a lot of polls show them tied. both campaigns will tell you they have showed the democrat surprisingly up, substantially up. what's notable in both polls, one from the post, one from nbc

4 is the movement over the summer of women. in the washington post poll the democrat is up 24 points among women. in the nbc poll 18 points among women. >> well now. >> just in may the post had them tied. this is a big boost for mcauliffe going into debate. >> there's been scandal on both sides of the campaign. how has it impacted the race? >> it really hurt the attorney general cuccinelli over the summer. this race is so bad they say you have two people, both with ethical issues against them. but terry mcauliffe is the one people feel they know more about. tomorrow there is a debate moderated by chuck todd -- >> oh, exciting! >> mcauliffe goes in feeling good. >> let's go to the chief northern virginia correspondent, gene robinson. what's the vibe on this where

you sit? >> where i sit, there was this scandal on both sides. and the names and frankly integrity of both candidates have been muddies somewhat. i think the deciding factor may be the issue of cucinelli and women. his views on abortion, women's reproductive rights in general. there are ads running basically nonstop in this market. terry mcauliffe ads that target this aspect of cucinelli's ideology and record. i think they are effective. >> republicans can't believe this is happening to them. that mcauliffe is the clean candidate. >> the president won in virginia in 2008, in 2012. if terry wins this race, there is no question virginia is a purple state now. no question it's purple.

but if terry wins do people say virginia is a purple state trending blue? >> absolutely. it's because of the power of northern virginia. krshs ucinelli is from prince county. the swinging, dwiegd line between northern virginia and what we call downstate virginia. he hasn't been able to capitalize on it. he hasn't been campaigning much in northern virginia. that was an early sign of trouble. >> i was going to say to willy, i don't know that you can really put a big national sort of slant on this race or talk about the future of virginia politics. there are scandals on both sides. we know about cucinelli and his connection with bob for jobs. on terry's side there is a deep dark scandal from right here. >> yeah. >> cucin, lli has attack ads

showing mcauliffe drinking on "morning joe." >> yeah. >> that was a banner day for "morning joe" during the 2008 campaign. i think h h he had just come back from puerto rico. he had rum with him. >> he's very excited. >> that's "morning joe." drinking on air. there it is. >> how about the shirt? it's the shirt. >> the shirt was key . >> he once wrestled an alligator. >> i think he got it from secretary hagel. >> he's drinking again. >> they had just come back from sweeping the puerto rico primary and he was excited. >> big sweep. >> he's doing shots on air. the good people of virginia have never had alcohol. nobody drinks bourbon down there. >> virginia gentleman. >> we were celebrating. >> when did you get your first blackberry? >> the moment it came out oh. i made a switch a year ago. i uh went cold turkey. we have both devices.

the kids were doing it, so i went for it. >> a man who e-mails so much, have you adjusted fully to iphone typing? >> never. this is embarrassing. but i will write an e-mail on oh my desk top and text it to myself. >> i have done that before. >> we don't usually listen to mark hallperin about apple. he's a sycophant. >> totally. >> but i tried siri. the difference between this generation and the last is unbelievable. a couple of operating systems down the road you won't use the keyboard because the dictation is good now. >> i was wondering about that. >> we'll see you back later in the show. >> thanks for having me. >> did you say passing around

the joint? >> classing up the joint. don't get excited. >> that's after the show. >> i thought, huh, interesting. >> shh, shh, shh. mika. >> it could be the best start to a season ever. peyton manning's nearly perfect game in denver last night. we'll be right back. with the spark miles card from capital one,

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time for sports. let's go with monday night football. the broncos are good. peyton manning throws three touchdown passes and only five incompletions in the entire game. led the broncos 37-21 victory over oakland, good for an nfl record 12 touchdown passes for manning in his first three games of the season. h h's yet to throw an interception and the broncos are rolling now. baseball's pennant race, pirates and cubs. pirates with a chance to go to the playoffs for the first time in 21 years. here is the bottom of the 9th with a man on. >> ball to right center field. that will drop for a hit. bobbled. breaks for the plate. here is the throw. he's out. the bucos win it. raise the jolly roger.

>> a play at the plate for the last out of the game. that's how the pirates clinched the playoff spot for the first time since 1992. thaer partying in pittsburgh tonight. what a way to get into the playoffs. let's go to cincinnati. the team they are neck and neck with here. mets and reds tied in the 10th. sin shu choo rips one off the wall. reds too lock up a spot in the playoffs. just a question now of how they will shuffle. to the american league, orioles and rays in the 9th tied. one over the wall. that's a walk-off homerun. the rays win 5-4. another team competing for the wild card spot the angels taking on the dreadful astros. alex rios finished up with a triple to right center in the sixth. it's the 7th cycle in rangers franchise history. texas wins 12-0.

here are the a.l. wild card standings. the rays still on top. a game ahead of cleveland. the rangers are within a half game of cleveland. we have some graphic problems. >> you don't need visuals and words to match up. >> let me edo it myself. >> to the internet. >> tampa bay and cleveland tied for the lead. texas is one game back. any three of the teams now could make it. >> anything with a champagne bottle? >> oh, yeah, jacobi jones was partying sunday night. hit over the head with a champagne bottle by -- a stripper. >> i hate it when that happens. >> is it worse on top of the head or on the side? you have experience in this area. >> all right. >> i don't like to get hit in the head head and tell. >> up next, dr. jeffrey sacks to

whom we owe an apology for this, what we expect as the president gets ready to address the u.n. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." (vo) you are a business pro.

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♪ a live look at the white house as the sun comes up over washington. welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now the director of the earth institute at columbia university. economist dr. the jeffrey sachs. good to have you on board. >> good morning. >> all eyes on the u.n. today and potential meetings between president obama and hassan rouhani. is that possible that it might happen? >> is peace breaking out? >> naw, what? >> good news in the last couple of week s, of course. the sudden reversal from going to war in syria to a diplomatic approach and now lots of

positive vibes on iran. i think it's very exciting. i think it's real. >> the meeting could happen? or they are waiting to see. >> they are talking about what kind of choreography perhaps to bump into each other at the corridor or the luncheon of heads of state. >> the handshake. >> the underlying significance is real. both sides are groping towards some kind of first avoidance of conflict. that was the direction we were heading. actually some kind of new direction that's more constructive. president rouhani is definitely speaking a different language. the supreme leader is speaking a different language. the step back from the brink of syria. the fact that the american people are signalling we don't want more wars. we want to find a diplomatic approach. to my mind this is significant. >> you mentioned positive vibes with iran. what con city uh tuts a positive vibe in the relationship with iran? the change in tone is nice.

a lot of people would say, let's see what they are doing from a po policy point of view and pursuinging nuclear weapons. has that changed? >> iran is discussing nuclear issues and part of the problem is that we have been increasingly drawn into this sunni, shia conflict which is not our conflict. syria is in many ways a proxy war. saudi arabia. this is a lot smarter and safer for the united states. i it opens up a new way to have a constructive relationship with iran. >> as much as it was watching themaking, or however to put it, with syria, the outcome is what most people wanted. >> exactly. two things were dramatic. one, the american people were

clear. stop. we don't want more wars. it's too dangerous, too explosive. it's not our fight. that was one thing. second, president putin, despite every claim and for some reasons, acted in a diplomatic way to show there is a way out of this diplomatically. i think from the world scene and from the american people's perspective that was also extremely important. there was someone on the other side. now we can see the same thing with iran. of course, the right wing in the united states is screaming, oh, my god, peace, this is horrifying. the fact is this is what the american people want. >> it's amazing the shift in the last few weeks to brink of war to a warm and fuzzy iran, putin stepping forward. >> so much criticism. >> everyone was banging on obama. how he was stumbling. somehow h he stumbled to a victory lap. >> this is significant.

tomorrow is the meeting not on war and peace but on poverty, fighting disease and sustainable development. there is also good news. it's below the headlines and the radar screen, deaths from malaria, aids, the spread of these epidemics is coming down because the quiet work of the united nations is working. it's less drama. people don't know but there is a tremendous amount of progress. the world leaders are actually going to take on the goal of ending extreme poverty. this is dramatic what's happening under the radar screen. >> going on at the united nations, the equal futures partnership. yesterday with secretary of state john kerry and valerie jarrett hosted the third high level meeting of the partnership which president obama announced two years ago the to challenge countries at the u.n. to do more to empower women to break through political and economic barriers. with 24 countries and the head

of the world bank aboard, the movement is gaining steam. also starting next spring the president will convene a summit on working families designed to make the american workplace more inclusive. thank you very much. >> thanks a lot. >> good to have you on. still ahead, former british prime minister tony blair will be here to weigh in on iran, syria and the middle east. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ and just give them the basics, you know. i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k)

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♪ coming up next, political analyst james carville and david axelrod join the conversation. also walter isaacson and chuck todd. more "morning joe" in a moment. [ taps baton ] [ dings ]

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>> during the te le cast neil patrick harris was proving the show and watch behind him. >> jimmy fallon presents lead actor in a series and the creator of family ties when we come back. >> that guy is a writer for the emmys named paul greenberg. i'm surprised he didn't know to stay out of the area. someone should have told him. what kind of operation are they running? the emmys. you would think the best people would be running it. so unprofessional. >> i hate it when that happens. welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour. john is still with us along with eugene robinson in washington. joining us the president and ce o of the aspen institute, walter isaacson and political strategist james carville. in chicago, director of the

university of chicago's institute of politics and msnbc contributor, david axelrod. good to have you all on board. >> dear lord. >> what? >> it's like the bill clinton alone. some kind of joke about that. this is like new orleans. >> comparing -- >> going to new orleans in a couple of weeks. james and i are fighting about where we should go. >> try not to insult anyone, okay? >> table rednecks. >> look at that face. >> heilman's? good lord. god knows what he'll vomit out next. >> ooh. >> what point he's going to make. it's just verbal -- what? i'm not going to say it. the debate over the government including republican opposition to obamacare is under way on capitol hill. majority leader harry reid will move forward with the spending level s proposed by house republicans and as expected remove any language to defund

the president's health care law. the first vote on the plan could come wednesday. yesterday, senators reid and ted cruz debated the bill and obamacare on the senate floor. >> any bill that defunds obama -- and his health care plan is dead on arrival in the senate. we are not going to bow to tea party anarchists. america will know exactly who to blame. republicans, fanatics in h the house and senate. >> i wish the majority leader had not objected to doing so right now. i wish the majority leader had not said he intends to continue to use the threat of a default to engage in brinksmanship to try to force obamacare on the american people. >> minority leader mitch mcconnell and the senior senator from texas announced yesterday they would not support a filibuster of the bill. the hill points out that the defund obamacare movementle will likely play a significant role

in the 2014 midterm lebss. nearly every republican running or expected to run for the senate next year supports the effort to strip funding for the affordable care act. meanwhile, a new cnbc poll finds 59% of americans oppose shutting down the government because of obamacare. even if the threat of a shutdown is removed, 44% still oppose gutting the law. president obama will officially begin the roll out of the affordable care act today with a conversation with former president bill clinton. joe? >> obviously, these polls tell us a variety uh of different things. we have seen polls from nbc wall street journal that americans aren't in love with obamacare. a lot of them, in fact, oppose it. james carville, obviously we saw a cnbc poll that shows that they don't want republicans as the wall street journal said this morning running into fixed bayonets.

>> yeah. >> they want them to be a little bit smarter. you and i understand and david understands why republican s re running in 2014 have to hold this position for the base. >> right. >> there is nothing interesting in asking that question. what about conservative democrats running in arkansas? what about conservative democrats in the senate running in 2014 in red states? how do they handle this? it's not as cut and dry as people of the nation are, you know, the new rep pupublic woul like them to think it is new mexico in louisiana, arkansas they voted for obamacare. so if they now vote to defund it, it won't help them. it makes them look stupid. they are already in. in for a penny, in for a pound in that sense. for the republican side, the

base doesn't want this. they think it uh will supress turnout. i can't imagine and somebody help h me. h how does this end well during the republicans? how do they come out? >> it doesn't. that's why they are bailing out. >> what's the happy ending? >> i think it's starting to move in that direction when you have tom coburn saying no to this extreme approach. it's a stupid tactic. you have krauthammer doing the same, the wall street journal doing the same. it seems the overwhelming majority of conservatives are saying, hey, you know, we are not going to blow ourselves up. that's not happening. the house republicans have decided not to do it. >> david axelrod, bill clinton stepping in to help sort of sell

obamacare, among other things. what can the white house do? there are polls here that show hopeful signs that people at least don't want to go backwards. >> there is no doubt. almost every poll i have seen suggests the general view of obamacare is let's not gut it. let's go forward with it and fix what's wrong with it as we move along. even on the polls on ai approval it's important to note that 15 to 20% of people in the polls are people who say they don't think it went far enough. people wanted a single payer system or something more than obamacare provides. i think the polls can be misread. what the president needs to do in the short run is make sure that it works. and the exchanges are the most important thing that's on deck. october 1, that process begins. people need to understand if they don't have insurance or are

in the independent market paying 1 to 20% more for insurance here is an opportunity to get insurance they can afford. i think that's what you will hear a lot of today when the president gets together with president clinton. >> so eugene robinson writes obamaca obamacare's real danger for the gop is that it will succeed. central provisions of the affordable care act are set to come into effect. the insurance ex changes that guarantee the screen that republicans are sure to fail. what they really fear is it will succeed. that's the reason for the desperation. republicans are afraid that obamacare will not prove to be a bureaucratic nightmare, that americans, in fact, will find they actually like it. the gop fears obamacare will be credited with slowing the rise of health care costs to a more

manageable rate. there are signs, in fact, that this bend ing of the curve is already taking place. medical costs are still rising much faster than inflation, but at the slowest rate in decades. walter isaacson. >> you were talking about what a conservative democrat might do. james and i know mary landrieu well. you say she can't walk away from the vote. she's walking, saying i voted for it, i'm in favor of it. this will be a good thing. a lot of people are already there. you can't say let's take that away from you. as more people start signing up for the ex changes next week it backfires when anybody says now we want to take that away. >> i think walter is right. if you look at the kind of gross positions here, one side is

saying, don't get health insurance. you know, a bunch of people are about to be able to get health insurance. we don't like that. i don't see how that, in the long run is really an attractive position. >> i want to ask a narrower political question. not narrow but a big one. james and to david. you guys both helped elect presidents. >> okay. ask it. >> okay. >> you're also democrats. so you probably don't know about this. is there a way in which this works out well for ted cruz to be a republican nominee in 2016? >> no. >> just like joe says, they say, look, we don't want to shut down the government. they fund the government, they fund obamacare. all of the conservatives and talk radio people were told they could do this. ted cruz says, the hand that held the dagger has plunged in my back, but i will take the wound for you. i will be out there fighting again. let the scarboroughs and mitch

mcconnells and the establishment -- >> i believe he's the one who left people hang out there. >> hold on. james carville, if you can -- if you can at least get the litany right. let the scarboroughs and the tom coburns and the wall street journal editorial page and the charles krauthammers and the jeb bushes and who did i miss? did i misanybody else? the real conservatives in the party. let them go ahead and be conservative and try to win elections. i will not go that route! >> senator cruz will say, i stood -- >> try to destroy the entire republican party in the process. >> i hate politics. >> from north florida anyone who stands with me -- >> just walked in. i'm moving abroad.

lord. >> did james just call me a yahoo from north florida? >> ted yoho? >> yoho. >> i'm sorry. >> yahoo, yoho. >> i would never call you a yahoo, joe. just an alabama fan which is worse. >> so we really do though have mr. heilman, a battle for the republican party. i think any disinterested observer has to say right now that it is the main street conservatives, the pat tumi's, charles krauthammer, wall street journal editorial page types that are winning the day. >> they are certainly winning the debate. you pointed out a couple of times it's a crazy strategy that went end well in terms of legislation. i want to ask the question i asked to james to david.

38% according to the polls that are in favor of defunding obamacare. that's obviously a big chunk. almost exclusively consistent of republicans. a lot of those people are activist republican primary voters. is there a way in which this end s well for ted cruz? if all this is about is ted cruz's personal advancement which a lot of people think it's about him getting on tv. >> if the question is whether ted cruz as a result of this is going to become president of the united states, the answer is no. if the question is does cruz have a constituency within the republican party as a result of this, the answer is yes. why are all the primary -- i know joe is excited and should be because there is not much to cheer about the republican party these days. when you look at the primary candidates, all of whom are taking the position, this crazy lemming-like position that cruz is advocating you get a sense of where the republican party is. i think there will be a battle

in oh 2016 over who is in control of the party. yes, the leaders of the party are taking a seasonsible positi but the rank and file are taking a different position. at least activists in the party. that will be a big battle coming into the next presidential race. >> joe? >> if i could just correct you. my dear friend, david, there is plenty to be excited about in being a republican for the first time in some time. if youing look at the latest nbc news/wall street journal poll and others, you are seeing the republican party start to make advances against democrats for the first i time since 2011 on who do you trust more on the economy, who do you trust more on jobs, who do you trust more on foreign policy. this is why this battle inside the republican party is so important right now. because with trends finally moving our way in polls, now is not the time to blow ourselves up or have a picket's charge

over shutting down the federal government. things aren't so bleak for the republican party. in fact, things are better than they have been since 2011. >> the question is the array of notables you associate yourself with can control the nominating process. there is no doubt you have a core of people making the right judgment here. but you still have, you know, all of the primary candidates taking the position for political reasons. you yourself said earlier we know why they are doing it. that says to me that the republican party is still being led by its id and not the ego that these people who are going to control or at least be active in the nominating process are going to drag the republican party in the wrong direction. until you solve that problem you won't be a national party. >> i think -- >> we obviously have a long way to go until we get to 2016.

at this point in the last cycle or two cycles ago barack obama wasn't even listed in polls in 2005. he ends up winning in 2008. nancy pelosi wasn't the speaker. she would be the speaker in the next year. at this stage of the cycle if republicans smarten up, i have a lot of evidence suggesting that they are tired of losing. they have lost five out of six of the last presidential campaign popular votes, that they could b turn things around. james carville, they have to do the right thing here. they have to do the smart thing here. >> the problem is what i call a problem with the georgia prisons is the quality of the inmate. the problem with the republican party is the quality of the person who votes in the primary. 59% of them say the party isn't conservative enough. >> oh. >> mika, i'm going to get a cup of coffee. >> you're doing well.

>> leave the marxist variety hour to you. >> you are aligned with an array of impressive notables, joe. >> walter, quick. >> walter will be the superego now. >> i think you look at them saying let's take away the health care. when people sign up next week. even walking away from so many things including core standards that was led by jeb bush, margaret spellings, things for education. as they say no it hurts the party. people my daughter's age who care about education can say this is kooky. >> james carville, david axelrod, thank you. eugene robinson, thank you as well. we'll read your column in the washington post today. walter, stay with us if you can. still ahead, lars ulrich, drummer from met tallica and to blair, former british prime minister, joins the table. this is "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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21 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joe, i think the last time this guest was on he was bringing you a birthday cake. here with us now -- >> i'll tell you what. that's something you don't forget, right? >> i figured you would remember that. former british prime minister and representative to the middle east tony blair joins us on set. good to have you back. >> thanks, mika. >> nbc news white house correspondent and host of daily rundown, chuck todd who didn't bring a cake. not even a cup cake. >> i remember singing. joe spit on it though. that was the problem. blew out the candles. >> all right. we have a prime minister in the house. let's go to the prime minister. mr. prime minister, obviously

the situation in syria is bleak. 100,000 plus dead, chemical weapons used more than once. now we find ourselves in the strange position of being partners of sorts with vladimir putin and assad on destroying those weapons. how do we trust these people? >> we have to make sure whatever happens is verifiable. the pressure is on us, but it is also on russia, frankly, and on assad to do what they say they would do. there is a process that will be put in place. now we've got to see it through. but even, frankly, if we deal with the chemical weapons issue -- and i hope we can -- you still have the ongoing civil war there that's disintegrating the country, b posing huge b problems and threats for the whole of the region. we have to look t at syria in two respects. deal with the chemical weapons issue and that's the question of verification and the process being a proper process. then secondly we've got to say

how we are going to bring the conflict to an end to present it destabilizing further the whole of the region. >> when we look at what's happened so far and the process that was very publically picked apart here as the president dealt with the situation, do you think the outcome up until now is the best possible outcome? >> the only outcome that counts is one that delivers the result. i don't think it matters how we got here if we manage to disarm syria of its chemical weapons that would be a huge plus. but you are still then left with the essentially c conflict. the risk we put on the table is syria effectively becomes partitioned. you end up with a state in the eastern part that is run effectively by assad and his uh allies. in the western part you have then a sunni large enclave that may be the property increasingly of those who are more extreme on

the sunni side. your risk is, as well as the millions of people already displaced, over 100,000 dead, is you then create for the future training grounds for extremism, terrorism and the things we see all over the world now. >> one of the reasons we are in the position we are in now, one of the reasons the president decided to go to congress and basically held back on going to syria was because of what happened in the british parliament. the labor leader ed mills iband decided to oppose prime minister cameron on this. number one, i'm curious, where were you on this issue? were you lobbying in either direction? second, was it the right call? >> well, i was probably where you would expect me to be. i think our alliance with the u.s. is vital. frankly, i think it was important to support president obama. >> you think one of your successors in the labor party made a mistake? >> you know, i know it is a tough job being leader of the

opposition and tougher being prime minister. there is no point in me hiding where i stand on this. think what is important across the region now is that we grip these issues. you have syria, iran, the middle east peace process. you've got what's happening in egypt which is still important for the development of the region. what i think we need to do is to see this as one whole picture. there are people out this the middle east now who are struggling against forces of extremism and sectarianism. we have to be with them, help them and promote peace and stability. that means the uk and the u.s. in this together. >> quickly, you would have launched the strikes. you think the president should have done this? >> i think what the president has done is per if he cannily understandable and right. he's wanted to -- >> but if there hadn't been the rejection in parliament then this probably would have happened. it sounds to me like you believe

that's the way it should have gone. that we may end up with a result you want but this wouldn't have been the way you would have done it. >> in terms of the uk parliament i would have been sticking with the united states. i can't tell what difference that makes. you're more in a position, chuck, to say that than me . >> i understand. >> what's important is to get the result now. there's been a lot of discussion about the el guidance of the process and so on and so forth. to me that doesn't really matter. both on syria and iran and the middle east peace process what matters is the result. if we get the result we should be happy. >> you have raised the middle east peace process a couple of times as being part of the holistic situation we face. how does this reverberate with what you are doing with the quartet and secretary kerry on the palestinian/israeli peace process? >> i think what's clear now is the israeli/palestinian issue isn't the cause of the upheavals across the region and so on. in one sense it uh's separate.

on the other hand, if you were able to make solutions toward a viable state of palestine it would create optimism across the region and would also solidify what i call the alliance of moderation and modernization against the forces of extremism that operate across the region to try to destabilize it. as we see from even far afield in nairobi try to create terror, dismay and death across the world. >> finally, turning to iran, would you see signs of hope that secretary kerry is meeting the iranian counterpart of the u.n. and there may be interaction between president obama and rouhani? >> again, i'm all in favor of en gau -- engagement. bear in mind the iran uhs have changed at least their public attitude in many respects because of the sanctions applied to iran uh because they have been tough. they hurt the economy.

they have crippled some of the sectors of the economy. that's why we have come this far. we should go into this with our eyes open without any illusions about the iranians and what they may try to do. that's the way the administration -- i'm sure that's the way john kerry will approach it. talk and engage. the result is what matters. if you can prevent iran acqui acquiring nuclear weapons without conflict, do it without conflict. >> joe? >> angela merkel obviously is headed toward her third term. how important is germany to europe? have they become at least financially the indispensable nation in europe, in the e.u.? >> yes, is the short answer to that. yeah, because germany is vital to keep the single currency together. frankly to pay the bill of getting us out of the hole we

are in now. i think her victory was not surprising, but it was also an indication that people want the european situation to stabilize and for the european economy to come out of its difficulties and move ahead. germ any is, you know, pivotal. >> tony blair -- >> you know, great britain and the united states continue to struggle with economic growth. what lessons can we take from germany and what germany has done right over the past five, ten years? >> i think the big issue for all of us is you've got huge change miss the demography of the population, technology and the way the world works. you've got to make reforms continually and update your systems of public services, entitlement and the state in order to keep ahead of the game. it's the same for us in the uk. same for you in the u.s. the issue for europe, frankly, is it prepared to reform? under the pressure of the crisis

europe is reforming but it has to see reforms through. and in many ways the reforms that were done in germany over the past ten year s or so that delivered a strong german economy today. are we going to take that lesson, learn it ourselves and apply it. >> tony blair, great to have you on. i always remember you and your wife and your beautiful young children. i read now here your son just got married. >> oh, my. >> are we that old? >> wow. >> they grow up, yeah. >> what happened? that's fantastic. >> he got older. >> congratulations. look! >> are you ready to be a grandparent? you're not ready, are you? >> i'm a little conflicted on that actually. >> oh, look at you. you look shocked. >> the day someone shouts grandpa and you turn around, hmm. i don't know. i have to get used to that. >> it's a good thing.

>> oh, my gosh. best to your wife. great to see you. >> thank you very much. walter isaacson, thank you. chuck todd, stay with us if you can uh. coming up, how is president obama's health care plan changing the landscape of medical treatment? the head of the world famous mayo clinic joins us ahead. my customers can shop around.

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♪ i see our president criticized for playing golf. i think he ought to play golf. >> uh why is that? >> i know what it's like to be in the bubble. to get outside and play golf with your pals is important for the president. it gives you an outlet. >> again, living up to the graceful way bush was in the white house, also not criticizinging the current president. >> george w. bush has been -- you talk about martin luther king. he talked about our president. he's always shown barack obama the kind of ex-presidential deference you are supposed to

show and i think he's right. the golf thing, like the teleprompter thing it's ridiculous. >> also president bush thought it was a stupid criticism of himself the way people would pile on him. oh, you're bike riding, doing this. the burdens of the job. >> the job follows you wherever you go. doesn't t matter if you are reagan, who you are. the job follows you. >> every single one of us though about the importance of destressing. >> w.'s brand keeps ratcheting up. the further he gets away from office, yeah, i liked him. he was all right. >> all right. up next -- >> a large aside, my friend. we just had a guy struggling with his own legacy with iraq just now. >> doctors and the fight over health care. later, exit sandman. metallica helped say farewell to the greatest closer in baseball. the band's drummer, lars ulrich joins us ahead. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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♪ >> i uh hope you've quit smoking. >> sometimes, have you. >> yeah. no, no. i haven't because i'm scared of my wife. >> that would do it. wouldn't it? >> yeah. if it hadn't been six years. >> you don't think so? >> no. he himself admitted it a few years ago. it was six years since he smoked in front of the first lady. >> oh. >> he's totally off now. he said he'd fall then off the

wagon. he and marvin nickelson, they stopped smoke ing together. ni nicore tte. when the president is chewing gum it's not trident. dr. john noseworthy from the mayo clinic squoin joins us. good to have you back. president clinton will be having a conversation with president obama about obamacare. there is a lot of criticism for now expensive this law is going to be on businesses. how it's going to just cripple the country. do you agree? are there any ways in which obamacare brings health care costs down? >> well, it's not for mayo clinic to decide about the affordable care act. we do agree it's good that americans will have insurance. we believe that's a good thing. we don't think the law has gone nearly far enough to recognize the complexity of care or the continuum of the quality of

outcomes. but we eel see where it goes. >> overall, do you think the law is something that should be -- look at the defund obamacare evident. what do you make of that as opposed to what we have here? >> we have to put it in the context of a greater economic problem than n the country. there is a slow economy unemployment, aging population, rising health care costs. somehow we have to see health care is too expensive and too fragmented. mayo clinic will auh bide by the law. we are making recommendations to the senate and house about how it should be amended. we are here for the patients. >> what challenges 'cause it pose? what amendments would you think are necessary? >> it should be appealed. we need to put in place a payment mechanism that reck niez it is intensity of care, not simply preventative services

and primary care but how we best provide care to patients with complex needs and also recognize there is a spectrum of outcomes. some groups provide high quality at low cost. others do the reverse. we believe that would help a great deal. >> my understanding of the way the new health care system >> we have been on a long

journey to provide better care at lower costs. highly efficient care. the last couple of years we have had to axccelerate that, how we worked differently. >> what have you changed? >> we re designed every process in patient care and how we process patients so that we are more efficient in the hospital. patients are getting in. spending less time in hospitals. they are less likely to be re admitted, to have infections. >> give me one specific -- okay. if it goes through. one specific way i i'm going to be treated better at the mayo clinic and one way it will come up short. >> mm-hmm. >> if you are having a complex problem we'll evaluate you before you come. when you get to the hospital you will be there for a shorter period of time with less time. you will get out sooner and be less likely to be reinfected

with infection. >> because of the affordable care that forced you to make re forms? >> we have been making the reforms forever but this amped it up. >> how about the down side? create one scenario where, okay, we don't love it. consumers need to make sure the premiums, that doesn't cover everything. the premiums -- >> what were you able to do that i walk in, get a three-day mayo complete workovers. what can't you give me now for the same thing? >> there may be more out of pocket expense for you. you always would and will get what you need. if this doesn't cover care you may have to cover it uh out of pocket if you're not covered. >> thank you so much. you can join the conversation online with dr. john noseworthy. tweet your questions for him now using # mojoe.

watch our extended web interview on afternoon mojoe.msnbc.com to find out which of your questions are answered. chuck, thank you. see you at 9:00. >> who's better than chuck? nobody. >> i don't know. in my household, at least my son and my daughter. >> then there is metallica like you have never seen them before. >> you're kicking me out for metallica. >> good trade. >> come on, man. >> one of the ta greatest metal bands of all time joins us on set. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ [ jen garner ] what skincare brand is so effective... so trusted... so clinically proven dermatologists recommend it twice as much as any other brand? neutrogena®. recommended by dermatologists 2 times more

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wow. that was a look at metallica through the never, the brand-new 3d movie hitting theaters this friday. the band's dumber, larz, joins us on set. i found out an interesting fact. your father -- >> father. >> was a professional tennis player. >> he was, yes. >> so you became a drummer for metallica. >> that's short version of the story, but i grew up -- i grew up around the tennis circuit, and so when i was -- up till i was about 15 or 16, my aspiration was to follow in my father's footsteps and become a professional tennis player. >> were you good? >> i'm good enough. >> good enough. >> but i wasn't good enough back then. >> tell us about this movie. >> well, it's a 3d movie for the theaters. it opens on every imax screen in america on friday an we've been working on it about three to four years, sort of a hybrid between a concert film and a dramatic film.

it's set against the background of a concert and there's a dramatic story that sort of weaves its way through. there's a runner, some people call, whose name is trip, played by the wonderful actor dane dehahn, who is sent on an errand for the band and then things go terribly wrong from there. it just takes on a world of its own. >> john heilman. >> a big question on metallica in a second. do you think "purple rain" is kind of a -- it's a similar thing, concert plus actual narrative in it? >> yeah, i mean, "the wall," obviously, is a cornerstone of that kind of film. "purple rain" to a degree. we used the last waltz, the band, which is a very sort of cinematic film. >> right. >> when we were trying to sell this movie in hollywood three years ago it was easier to talk about what the movie wasn't than what it was because in hollywood if you bring something they've never seen, they like references in hollywood, there's no real

references for this movie so it took a little while to get people to pie it in hollywood. >> the band's been around 32 years. >> right. >> there's a great scene in the movie, almost famous, where jimmy fallon says if you think mick jagger will still be making music when he's 50 years old, you've got another thing coming. the most important heavy metal band ever. did you think 32 years ago when you started metallica you'd still be making this music 32 years later? >> the goal 32 years ago was to have an imax movie and sit here with you guys. that was what we were striving towards. at that time, i come from denmark, grew up in copenhagen, denmark, and i was never -- i thought that was an american thing. when i came to america when i was 17, everybody's like you want to make it, what are your long-term goals, i just want to play music and have fun and live sort of in the moment, be a little more impulsive.

the fact we're still doing this 32 years is obviously pretty crazy. >> and the height of discipline, by the way, because you said you weren't going to play tennis, because you weren't that disciplined, yet look at you. >> yeah. just thinking the last three to four days we've been here in new york, we've played the apollo theater, played yankee stadium on sunday for rivera's, you know, good-bye. we played howard stern. we played at howard stern's show yesterday. >> oh, my gosh. >> sitting here 32 years in. >> talk about mariano rivera for a second. he's one of the greatest baseball players ever to live, the greatest closer of all time, and he comes in every time to "enter sandman," which you played live. i like the cello version at fenway. i don't know if you've heard that one, too. >> heard most of them. >> when did you know that he was doing it and when did you realize it was kind of a big deal? >> well, it's been on our radar. he's been doing it for about 15 years. >> take it back to when somebody brought it to your attention and then all of a sudden you're at yankee stadium in his

retirement. >> obviously, i mean, it since last year so we've been aware of that. a couple, two, three months ago they came to us and said this is going down this fall and would you like to be part of it. obviously at the all-star game out at the mets stadium, that was a big moment when he walked in and had the whole stadium to himself and the song played in its entirety for five minutes. it's been pretty cool to be associated with that. we're very proud of that. >> when you think back on the long arc of this career, what are you proudest of? what's the music right now if you were -- >> i'm proudest of the longevity and the fact that 32 years into a career we can still sit here and talk about it and be considered somewhat relevant. >> oh, yeah. every time i teased you coming on the show, people started -- oh, my god. >> mika's a big metal fan. >> she thinks you guys are a lilt soft. >> she's not the only one. >> she's a little more -- like

faster. >> def metal. >> don't believe a word he says. lars ulrich, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> "through the never" hits theaters this friday. go see it. up next, why ted cruise said he would only study with harvard, princeton, and yale students, and not the mi oonor ivies. forty ti mes. forty ti mes. that's how often a group of house republicans have voted against obamacare, just to prove their allegiance to their party's right wing. okay - they've said their piece. but now they've gone even further... threatening to shut down the government if obamacare isn't dismantled. it could disrupt social security and veterans benefits, hurt job growth and undermine our economic recovery -

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we have now put together a segment that we hope will give the legislative bodies in washington the incentive they need to get together. it's called "united states congress finding common ground." >> i love horses. >> i love horses. >> i love horses. >> i love monkeys. [ buzzer ] >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." it's gorgeous. back with us on the set. >> gorgeous. >> john heilman and donny deutsch. >> oh, he's gorgeous. >> he's not. >> heilman or -- >> clearly deutsch. >> let's go with willie on that one. and in washington, eugene

robinson. the debate over funding the government, including republican opposition to obama care, it's officially under way on capitol hill. majority leader harry reid will reportedly move forward with the spending levels proposed by house republicans and as expected remove any language to defund the president's health care law. the first vote on the plan could come as early as wednesday. did eugene just moan? i think he did. yesterday senators reid and ted cruise debated the bill and obama care on the senate floor. take a listen. >> the bill defunds obama and his health care plan is dead on arrival in the senate. we're not going to bow to tea party anarchists. america will know exactly who to blame -- republican fanatics in the house and senate. >> i wish the majority leader had not objected to doing so right now. i wish the majority leader had not said he intends to continue to use the threat of a default.

to engage in brinksmanship, to try to force obama care on the american people. >> i think the law was -- okay. minority leader mitch mcconnell and the senior senator from texas john cornyn announced yesterday they would not support a filibuster of the bill. "the hill "points out the defund obama care movement will likely play a significant role in the 2014 midterm elections. nearly every republican running or expected to run the senate next year supports the effort to strip funding for the affordable care act. meanwhile, a new cnbc poll finds 59% of americans oppose shutting down the government because of obama care. and even if the threat of a shutdown is removed, 44% still oppose gunning the 2010 health care law, something we were talking about yesterday. president obama will officially begin the rollout of the affordable care act later today with a conversation, joe, with former president bill clinton. don't you think that will start

helping? >> oh, i doubt it. >> i do. >> let's talk about really the news today. the republican party has really -- and more importantly the conservative movement has really started to coalesce around this idea that losing elections is a bad thing, pissing off the american people is a bad thing. over the past several weeks we've asked what people thought about adopting a strategy that could never work because we need to be able to count to 51 votes in the senate and have barack obama defund his own bill to make this work. but tom coburn's come on this show and he said it makes absolutely no sense to run into fixed bayonets and lose the battle. scott walker, conservative governor from wisconsin, has said the same thing. paul ryan has said the same thing. charles krauthammer has said the same thing. this morning the mothership of

the american conservative movement, "the wall street journal," has written an editorial, and in that editorial they, too, warn against conservatives running into fixed bayonets, talking about how ted cruz and mike lee have been more interested in saying exactly what we've been saying, and what house members on the hill have been telling us all along and conservative champions have been saying all along. this has never really been about defunding obama care and shutting down the government. this has always been about ted cruz getting on cable tv more as "the wall street journal" says and expanding his mailing lists. he's been called out. he's been exposed. and i for one am very glad that the conservative movement from tom coburn -- is he a rhino? if he is i want to be a rhino. is charles krauthammer a rhino? count me in that group. scott walker, is he a rhino? is paul ryan a rhino?

you see, these people have locked themselves into a little, little, little room. and it's a room that the people jam ined inside that room, they don't carry majorities, not in presidential campaign, not in senate campaigns, not in congressional campaigns. mika, i think this is an important moment for the republican party and the conservative movement. this is a moment when the party and the movement decided, hey, you know what, we're going to be responsible and we're going to engage in tactics that actually have a chance of working, helping the american people, and winning presidential elections. i for one am very happy. >> well, here is what "the wall street journal" editorial board writes. "the cruz campaign against obama care when mr. cruz demands that house republicans hold firm, he means they should keep trying to defund obama care even if it results in a shutdown that president obama will blame on republicans. it's nice of him to volunteer

house republicans for duty. the supposedly intrepid general cruz can view the bat from the comfort of hq while the enlisted troops take any casualties. the only real way to repeal the law is to win elections. our strategy would be to conduct an island-hopping campaign that attacks the law's vulnerable parts to help win those elections. but we've lost this debate, and generals cruz and lee are in charge. if things don't go well, let's not hear any excuses about the surrender caucus or claims that it would have all worked out if only everyone were as brave and principled as the generals up at hg." joe. >> it is hard to believe, john heilman, how stupid ted cruz believes not only the american people are but members of his own republican caucus after getting exactly what he asked for, then turning the rhetorical guns on members of the house, after talking about shutting

down the government for months after running these 30-second ads, then holding a press conference after he figured out that the house republicans were actually going to call his bluff and say, you know, it's not really -- obama care is not really worth a shutdown and there's really nothing we can do, we've got to win a couple more elections. he got backed into the corner and his biggest mistake was backing himself into his own corner by conservative members of his own party. they've all turned against him. >> he is the least popular member of the united states senate right now. but as you said, joe, i mean, look, it's nuts what he's done and it's been a fun-filled year for ted cruz. he's gotten more attention than any freshman senator i can remember in the longest time. if "the wall street journal" and others are right, and i think you are, this is about building his mailing list, his national profile, building up a brand as an outsider, playing that weird game of i'm in the u.s. senate

but i'm an outsider and get on cable tv, he's accomplished a lot over the course of the last nine months. i think the truth is that he climbed out on a very long branch and now has found himself with nowhere to go. whether this is a good long-term play for him or not, i don't know, but he may end up falling to the ground with a pretty large thud over the course of the next couple weeks. >> you know, mee kashgs he is an outsider. willie, he is an outsider. he's an outsider who's in the united states senate. he's an outsider that went to harvard. he's an outsider that went to princeton. he's an outsider that worked on the presidential campaigns. he's an outsider that is such an outsider that when he went to law school he refused to study with anybody that didn't go to harvard or yale or princeton in their undergrad class. a real man of the people, willie. >> the thing about being an outsidner the senate, when you have moments like this you need some friends to get votes to

push these things through so it's not always so good to stand by yourself in the corner of the chamber. you mentioned harvard and princeton. senator cruz profiled by "gq" magazine with the headline, "ted cruz, the distinguished wacko bird from texas." one of his classmates said, "the elite academic circles that cruz but now traveling in began to rub off. as a law student at harvard, he refused to study with anyone who hadn't been an undergrad at harvard, princeton, or yale, sald he didn't want anybody from, quote, minor ivies like penn or brown." >> wow. >> did he mention alabama? did he mention alabama? >> i don't think he did. >> is that one of the minor ivies? >> is that a minor ivy? >> as a penn guy, i take major offense. >> what about florida? southern state schools? can you go to southern state schools and study with ted cruz? are we all too dumb for him? >> this guy is so disliked by

the republican -- other republican senators that it was interesting, chris wallace had him on last sunday and said he had never had a week where he was getting so many unsolicited basically pieces of research and questions to ask him to trip him up. this guy is repulsive. joe, one thing you said that scares me a little bit, you said americans are not stupid enough to buy into him. still 40% of americans, 4 out of 10, almost half, would rather see the government shut down, not understanding what that would do to their i.r.a.s and mortgage payments, than fund obama care. that's as scary as ted cruz is. >> i didn't see that, paul. i saw a cnbc poll that said only 19% of americans would support that approach and actually 59% of americans are opposed to it. what we conservatives have been saying, because what you'll have on twitter and some of these people in the blogosphere, they'll present a false choice. you're either with ted cruz and this asinine, as "the wall street journal" says, this

asinine plan of running into fixed bayonets or you're for obama carcare. that's not the case. i've been against obamacare from the beginning, charles krauthammer has, scott has. we're all -- like scott walker, like pat toomey, like "the wall street journal" editorial board, we are all against obamacare. we think it's bad for america. we think it's bald for business. we think it's the wrong way to deliver health care to america. we think there's a better way to do it. but that does not mean we have to agree with one of the stupidest tactics i've ever seen in modern american politics, to run into, as the journal said, fixed bayonets. this is again, willie geist, this, as if somebody looked at old films of bud wilkinson and said, you know, cutch bud wilkinson was great at oklahoma, won, what, 59 straight games in a row, and then decided on last

night's monday night game, since the wishbone worked for bud wilkinson, we're going to implement the wishbone in the nfl, you know, in september of 2013. it's a tactic. it's a tactic that won't work. and it's obvious on its face. >> it's a tactic that won't work. gene robinson, also as "the wall street journal" points out, it allows harry reid to change the conversation and not to address concerns that a majority of the american people have about obamacare. it allows the harry reid to call republicans anarchists, nancy pelosi to call republicans arsonists. i think that's why you see so much frustration from congressional republicans because they're all being painted with the ted cruz brush. >> they are, and they can all count to 51. and they all understand that this is just creating a huge unnecessary vulnerability for them. and they're going to get slammed. you know, i have one question for our image experts, donny and joe. >> oh, great.

>> you know -- >> when did joe -- excuse me. >> joe was in correct me if i'm wrong. here's my question. suppose ted cruz wakes up this morning, slams himself in the forehead and says i am such an idiot, how did i get myself in this situation? >> chances of that happening are nil. >> i know. it won't happen, but in a parallel universe. suppose it happened. how does he climb down from this? does he just come out and say i was wrong? does he play it out to the end to retain some sort of credibility? >> eugene, that's exactly -- this actually started last week when the house passed the cr that defunded obamacare. ted cruz knew that the house republicans had called his bluff. so he immediately scurried over to the house and in effect said, hey, listen, i've been talking big but i'm not going to be able to do anything in the senate. so i'm basically going to be shouting orlandoers from headquarters in the senate, and if you people don't hold the

line over here, then you're failures. that started last week. that's why the conservatives in the house caucus all exploded at the end of last week. and then, you know, he started talking act, we've got to win this in elections. forget everything i've said across america, forget the town hall meet wrgs i riled people up, forget the fact i had republican members of congress had their offices shut down for days with people calling in around the clock, following my suggestions on tv. i can't do any of that. we're going to need a couple more elections to change this. he tried to come off of this limb last week, and republicans who had been the target of his attacks, you know, they went after him. donny deutsch, that's a real problem, because he doesn't have a lot of people in his corner because he's been attacking these conservative republicans in the house. >> here's the sad answer, gene, is that -- and, joe, you talked about this earlier in the cable

age, he doesn't have to come down and he doesn't have to do a mea culpa. what he gets to say is, you know what, i'm brave and i took a stand for the american people and i'm the outsider, albeit with princeton, yale, harvard outsider, and, you know, i'm going to be a team player and i have to go with the flow. but somebody's got to speak up. it's the rand paul strategy. coming up on "morning joe," he went from person aide to president bartlett in the west wing to performing last night for the real president. actor -- >> wait, wait, wait. willie, president bartlett isn't the real president? >> oh, no one told you. >> yeah. it's all right. >> we'll talk offline. >> that changes everything. that changes everything i've said over the last couple hours. >> oh, good. actor dooley hill joins us to tell us if there were a few extra nerves putting on his play "after midnight" for the commander in chief. and terry mcauliffe is hanging on to a lead in the race for virginia governor.

which voters have given him an unexpected boost? mike allen has another installment of the politico playbook. but first, bill karins. check on the forecast. >> i think you missed it. that was the first guest to be writing live on the chalk board as we introduced them. tampa, florida, the worst weather heading out the door on the way to school and work, getting drenched right now, thunderstorms and torrential rains, flashflooding a possibility in many areas today, especially some of the low-lying areas out there. that will move along i-4, orlando vicinity, you're next with that rain during the day. airports today, tampa and orlando, the two airports that will have the most delays, maybe miami and new orleans, too, but some stray thunderstorms, our friends in portland, oregon, and some seattle, just some showers. i don't think you left many issues at the airports. for everybody else, this is a-plus-plus type of weather. look at sunshine from the northeast, mid-atlanta, low temperatures, low dew points.

i'll tell you what, we're going to see quite a week here even through the beginning of the weekend. low 70s for areas like new york city. this is just a banner start to fall. so many of us. the shot of another spot, a gorgeous sunrise this morning, the arch, the gateway, st. louis. you're watching "morning joe." [ male announcer ] let's say you pay your guy around 2% to manage your money.

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i like the headline in "usa

today." let's take a look at the morning papers. "new york times," refired fbi agent will fleed plooed guilty to charges that he leaked classified information to the ap about a terrorist bomb plot in yemen. he was caught when investigators secretly subpoenaed telephone records of associated press reporters. the fbi also discovered national security documents on his computer. he will spend 12 years in prison. joe. >> wow. from our parade of papers, "the boston globe," blackberry announced its largest shareholder will buy the handset maker for $4.7 billion. the news has been long in the making after blackberry reported a billion-dollar loss and laid off more than 4,000 employees. shareholders are going to be getting $9 in cash for each share. "the washington post," the irs official at the center of the tea party controversy has resigned. l lois lerner refused to testify to congress about the agency's

screening of tea party groups in the 2012 elections. her retirement comes as review was deciding if she should be fired. she was placed on paid flooef may. republicans in congress say the irs investigation will continue. and the seattle post intelligencer, former vice president dick cheney caused his team a victory at an antelope hunting competition when his gun wouldn't fire. he blamed the mishap on the gun manufacturer, remington, after being mocked by other contestants. his teammate, wyoming governor matt mead, said he hoped the former vice president would return next year, and i have no idea why we put that in the list of our news stories. a lot of hateful people inside the control room that just don't love america. i don't know what's next. >> "the telegraph," a russian history book will dedicate an entire chapter to president vladimir putin. the textbook will be used in russian schools. >> will there be photographs?

>> well, yes. there you go. the books were commissioned by putin himself earlier this year. >> oh, yeah, baby. >> he apparently is against the idea of a whole chapter devoeded to him. >> i'm sure he is. >> his sources say putin feels it's too early, quote, to evaluate his initiatives. wow. >> maybe they could do -- just do a chapter on all the journalists that have been assassinated by putin's people. that would be an interesting chamter for the kiddies to read. >> exactly. "usa today," the winner of last week's powerball game came forward to collect the prize but wants to be anonymous. that's just the way i am. the ticket was purchased at a gas station in lexington, south carolina, one of only a handleful of states that allow powerball winners to keep their names private, which is, of course, why guy to south carolina to buy my powerball tickets. this marks the fourth largest jackpot ever valued at $400 million. mee kashgs i have no idea how i'm going to spend that money. >> taking the lump, though,

right, joe? >> of course i am. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> can i have $400 million, they tell me, or i can get $14.75 this week. i'm taking the money now. >> take it now. >> let's go to politico and talk about something. >> look who's here in the flesh, the chief white house correspondent for politico, mike allen weather a look at the playbook. how you doing? >> good. >> good to have you up here. got some new polls about mccauliff's pulling away, but look at "the washington post," it's five points, likely voters seven or eight points. where do we stand there? >> what we're seeing there is movement. this reflect what is the campaigns have said for a long time is the reality. there have been a lot of polls that showed them tied, but both campaigns will tell you they've showed the democrat, terry mcauliffe, surprisingly up, substantially up. what's notable in both polls, one from "the post," one from nbc 4, is the movement over the summer of women. in "the washington post" poll,

the democrat, terry mcauliffe, is up 24 points among women. in the nbc poll, 18 points among women. >> well, now. >> just back in may "the post" had them tied so this is a big boost for mccauliff going -- >> they don't -- there's been a little scandal on both sides in this campaign. how has that impacted the race? >> well, it really hurt the attorney general over the summer, cuccinelli, and this race is so bad that they say you have two people both with ethical issues against them, but terry mcauliffe is the one that people feel like they know more about. so tomorrow there's a debate moderated by -- >> chuck todd. >> exciting. >> and so mccauliff is going into that feeling good with this. >> let's go to our chief northern virginia correspondent gene robinson. gene, what's the vibe on this race where you sit? >> well, where i sit, there was

this scandal kind of on both sides. and the names of -- and frankly integrity of both candidates have been muld died somewhat. so i think kind of the deciding factor may be the issue of cuccinelli and women. his views on abortion, his -- women's reproductive rights in general. there are ads running basically nonstop in this market. terry mcauliffe, the target of this aspect of cuccinelli's ideology and record, and i think they're effective. >> i can tell you, republicans, jumping in here, republicans can't believe this is happening to them, that terry mcauliffe is the clean candidate. >> right. so the president won in virginia in 2008. the president won in virginia in 2012. if terry mcauliffe wins this race, there's no question virginia is a purple state now, right, but no question it's purple, but if terry wins this race, do people start to say

virginia is a purple state trending blue? >> absolutely, because of the power of northern virginia. that's where the growth is. and cuccinelli is from prince william county. the swing state's sort of dividing line between northern virginia and what we call downstate virginia. but he hasn't become a capital -- he hasn't been campaigning much in northern virginia. that was one of the early signs of trouble for him. >> go ahead, joe. >> i was just going to say, m a mika, to willie, willie, i don't know that you can really put a big national sort of slant on this race or even talk about the future of virginia politics because there are scandals on both sides. we know about cuccinelli and his connection with bob mcdonald. but on terry's side, obviously a deep, dark scandal from, you know, right here. and cuccinelli is actually running attack ads showing terry mcauliffe drinking on "morning

joe." >> a banner day for "morning joe" during the 2008 campaign. i think he'd just come back from puerto rico. he had rum with him. >> he was very excited. >> there he is right there. drinking on the air. there it is. >> how about that shirt? >> the shirt was the key. he once wrestled an alligator. >> i made him do that. >> i think he got it from secretary hagel. >> they show it about four times in that ad. just came back from sweeping the puerto rico primary in 2008 and he was excited. >> he's doing shots on the air. the good people of virginia never had any alcohol. nobody drinks like bourbon and -- down there. >> virginia gentlemen. >> when did you buy your first blackberry? >> the moment it came out. >> when did you switch? >> about a year ago. i went cold turkey. vandehei still has both twices. i just went with one. the kids were doing it so i

figured i would. >> a man who e-mails so much, have you ajulsed fully to the iphone typing? >> never. and i will write -- this is embarrassing but i will write an e-mail on my desk top and send it to myself. >> up next, celebrating the life of duke ellington. and dule hill and his latest part on broadway. that and a look at president obama. here's the plan. we're gonna stop beating ourselves up about our weight. we're not gonna give up what we love. it's not gonna happen. and when the pounds still come off... we'll be like, "whoa!" one night we'll even eat a cupcake like it's our job.

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♪ nice. here with us now, emmy nominated actor dule hill, co-stars in the upcoming broadway play "after midnight." i just heard some things about who's co-starring with him. very cool. we'll get to that. last night dule and the cast of "after midnight" performed for the president at the united nations general assembly. that must have been fun. >> it was surreal. >> are you tired? >> i'm tired but i'm still riding high off of it. things like that don't happen every day. >> they don't bp were you nervous? >> no. when the music start, you just hit it. >> exactly. go and hit it. >> where was this? >> at the waldorf-astoria. >> in their ballroom kind of thing? >> one of their ballrooms on one

of the top floors. >> did you tap? >> i did more of a soft shoe then i sang a song. >> one of the things i like best about this bio here is avid tap-dancer. >> now i kind of want to see something. >> i've seen a lot of tap-dancing. >> right here, right now. >> let's see it. >> watch your mike. oh, i love that. i've always wanted to do that. >> wow. whooo! smoking. >> and a soft shoe also? >> well, it's -- >> what's the difference between soft shoe and tap-dance? >> i still don't know. how much you're hitting i guess. but a lot of that in "after midnight," not just myself but amazing tap-dancer, performers, singers. >> can't wait to see it. >> going to be a good time. >> whooo oes on with you? >> back in the '30s, the cotton club was the greatest show on earth. we take a look back and bring it

to today. bring the cotton club floor show. myself and teja barrino. >> amazing. >> the lincoln center jazz band will be on stage. >> it's got langston hughes. >> words by langston hughes. >> that is serious. >> that intellectually takes you out of mix, doesn't it. >> come on. >> it's going to be a good time. previews start october 18th and we open november 3rd. >> awesome. >> and you have k.d. lang? are you serious? >> after "fantasia" leaves, k.d. lang is come nothing replace her. >> that's interesting. >> in the cotton club, you always had a special guest star. with our show, we have a rotating special guest star that will come in. k.d. lang will come in for a few weeks then somebody else. a whole different track. >> amazing nobody's brought dinner theater back to new york. how cool that would be, show, eat. >> i don't know if we have

dinner but we will have the theater. >> is it a great show to be on so far? i'm looking at your career. >> i h "morning joe." of course. what's better than "morning joe"? >> i don't need to ask that. exactly. what else is there? >> that's what i'm saying. >> yeah. see? why would youen go there? >> i don't know. >> so you've done a lot of stuff since "the west wing." >> i've tone stuff. i don't know about a lot of stuff. >> a fair amount of stuff. >> yeah. >> how often do you get hit on the street and people say charlie young? >> happens every other day. it's a show that resonated with a lot of people. >> off a long time. >> goes between charlie young and gus from "psych." sometimes i walk into a place and someone will say there's gus. the person next to them will say, no, that's charlie. >> "west wing" a network show but a precursor to what's happening in the golden age of television with amazing writing

and acting, mostly cable but also networks. in the days the it was on there was not a lot of stuff at that level, at the sorkin level if you will. >> i would say that's true. even now i don't think there's a lot of stuff. i think that are at that level and some may have surpassed it. but aaron's in a world of his own. there aren't too many aaron sorkins out there. >> he's got to be a whack job. is that fair to say? >> i think to be in entertainment you have to be a whack job. martin sheen, rob lowe, we're all whack jobs. i think you're a whack job. >> duh. >> different words. >> okay. preview performances of "after midnight" begin on october 18th at new york's city's brooks atkinson theater. >> we're all going. >> i'm going. >> it will be a good time. >> dule hill, thank you so much. great to see you. >> always a pleasure. up next, chrysler files for an ipo but company management wasn't exactly pushing for the

move. how the union pushed the company's hand. "business before the bell" is next on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] the wind's constant force

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wherever you are today, a fidelity i.r.a. has a wide range of investment choices to help you fine-tune your personal economy. call today, and we'll make it easy to move that old 401(k) to a fidelity i.r.a. ♪ "business before the bell," with kelly evans. a little market slide and some companies talking about going public and others going private. >> that's right. good morning, brian. good morning, guys. friday i was telling you about a flurry of ipo activity on the floor. now today it's going to be one in particular that's in focus as markets generally are flat, they're waiting on more clarity

from the fed, and of course from washington for the next move. but chrysler is much of the story this morning. now this automaker, like ford and gm, has been on the rebound since the crisis a couple years ago, helped by jeep grand cherok cherokee, recently revamped. here's one you don't hear every day. the case of a company, a reluctant public offering pushed for by its union. what's happened in the case of chrysler is the united auto workers, which took a big stake in the company back in 2007 when chrysler needed help, says it thinks that stake worth about 40% of chrysler would be worth as much as $30 billion and it wants to test its value by going public with part of it. it's fiat, though, the italian company, which also owns the majority of chrysler, doesn't necessarily want to pursue this move. fiat would rather just buy the united auto workers' stake outright. of course it's not necessarily offering as much as the autoworkers would like. so here's a case again, a back

and forth internal company dispute, but if you think that what the union did at the time was basically helped to bail out chrysler by removing its health care costs, now the union is saying it wants to make sure it's gettinging the full value of that stake. the trouble is this -- if it goes public, fiat saying it's not necessarily going to participate, and if it splits the two companies, which have been operating in an alliance for the last couple years to help the company turn around, you might see a big loss of momentum. so here again -- >> what's the bottom line, though? >> if it goes public, could be a big problem. >> what's the consensus? this is obviously a political game. do you think it will happen or will it stay private and stay in fiat's hands? >> so we were watching this one with a wary eye for the last couple weeks thinking maybe they'd come to an agreement, that fiat would pay more to buy out the stake or the autoworkers would say we don't want to ris ak rupture by going public. but, guys, chrysler filed for this public offering last night. so barring a last-minute decision here, this is -- this appears to be the path that the union is pushing for them to pursue. >> kelly, donny deutsch.

in about an hour and 15 minutes barack obama will speak in front of the general assembly. does the street pay any attention to that? >> absolutely. >> they do. >> they'll definitely keep an eye on it. of course it would really take something different, something new, something unanticipated from the president to get the market's attention here. it's both the market and oil in particular they'll be watching to see if he says anything about syria that would perhaps indicate he's taking a harder line than some of his colleagues or not necessarily or perhaps taking a more skeptical approach to the iran janish shoe that he has indicated over the last couple days. we know there's high-level meetings happening between iran and the u.s. so, donny, people will be keeping an eye on it. he's the second out of 18 speakers expected at the u.n. this morning, but it would take something unexpected to shake stocks out of their current range. >> we've talked about the downfall of blackberry. five years ago worth over $80 billion, and now kelly, we get an offer for less than $5 billion. when you read between the lines and tell people at home who don't follow the story, this offer is a little bit of an odd

one. it might not be that legitimate some say because they're trying to spark more offers on blackberry. >> i was jokingly calling it a maple syrup knight, not a white knight. blackberry was a huge source of national pride for the canadian, really. this was a company that was kind of a banner story for entrepreneurship and for global influence and the blackberry handset had total control of the market for a period of time, has completely lost it and now this fairfax group, again, a canada-based group, is stepping up and saying that it perhaps will pursue an option here with the company. but again, rolf winkler in "the journal" says they'll buy the house, blackberry, but only have they have a better inspection and can get a good mortgage. a lot of what-ifs and not a lot of potential suitors behind them. >> i'm still a blackberry guy. old school, baby. old school. >> please don't let us see that. >> he's a weanie. >> kelly evans thanks so much.

>> thanks, mika. up next, reports about the company ya mall standoff and the question of whether or not it's almost over. the latest on the crisis, now in its fourth day. keep it here on "morning joe." w. w. the timing, the actions, the reactions. everything has to synch up. my expenses are no different. receiptmatch on the business gold rewards card synchronizes your business expenses. just shoot your business card receipts and they're automatically matched up with the charges on your online statement. i'm john kaplan, and i'm a member of a synchronized world. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches? i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles? i do... drink water.

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welcome back to "morning joe." mika, apparently a lot of questions still coming out of kenya about whether the siege is drawing to an end or not. >> yep. the deadly standoff at that high-end mall in nairobi is

entering its fourth day, even though kenyan officials say the ordeal is close to its conclusion. there are reports of new explosions and gunfire exchanges throughout the morning. and now the al shabaab islamist group says its militants are holding out in the mall. according to a kenyan government official, three gunmen have been killed since the siege began. officials believe 10 to 15 terrorists were involved in the attack. this comes of course after an intense day of clashes between the military and the gunmen. battles have been so intense that journalists and other people nearby were forced to flee. we're also learning troubling new details about the people behind the attack. kenya's foreign minister says americans were among those who played a role in carrying out the killings. >> from the information that we have, two or three americans, i think so far i've heard of one brit.

the americans from the information we have are young men. >> mm-hmm. >> about -- between maybe 18 and 19. >> somali origin? >> all somali or arab origin. but, you know, thatted in the u.s., in minnesota and one other place. you know, so basically, look, that just works to undermine i think the global nature of this war that we're fighting. >> the state department says -- >> she does the script. >> what? okay. there's no definitive evidence that americans were involved with the group. republican congressman peter king says dozens of somali men with u.s. passports from minnesota have sought training from al shabaab, but many have fallen off the radar. >> about 15 of them have been killed. the other 25 we're not certain if they're still over there, if they've come back, and exactly what they're doing. >> president obama spoke for the first time about the attack amid concerns that similar assaults

could pop up around the world and in the u.s. >> this i si underscores the rude awakening all of us as an international community have to stand against the kind of senseless violence that these kinds of groups represent. and the united states will continue to work with the entire continent of africa and around the world to make sure that we are dismantling these networks of destruction. >> the massacre has left more than 60 people dead. "new york times" photographer tyler hicks made it into the mall shortly after the shooting and described what he saw. >> once i got inside the mall i could see how teps everyone was, the army and police, how carefully they were moving, they were dashing across open areas, taking extreme care with their cover. it seemed like everywhere we went more people came out of the woodwork. in one sense it seemed very abandoned. for example, music that plays in the shopping mall, the typical kind of music, was still playing

on the intercom, so it was kind of this eerie silence of this music interrupted occasionally by gunfire. terrified people crying, screaming, running for their lives really. i never thought i would encount they are kind of tragedy in a public place like this where completely innocent civilians were gunned down and murdered. it's not like a conventional war where you expect combatants to get hurt or expect there to be collateral damage in those kind of situations. this is just a suicide mission and murder. >> obviously expect updates on msnbc throughout the day. beal right back with what we learned. [ taps baton ] [ dings ] ♪ [ male announcer ] every thought... every movement... ♪ ...carefully planned, coordinated and synchronized. ♪ performing together with a single, united purpose.

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the steelers game was on opposite the emmys l.a. night. i kept going back and forth. did you see that one hit on ben roethlisberger? i thought it was this was really strange. take a look what happened. >> second and five. >> watch this. >> look out. >> and the emmy goes to -- >> neil patrick harris was previewing what was coming up on the show, and watch closely the guy behind him. >> jimmy fallon presents the award for lead actress in a drama series and michael j. fox

remembers "family ties." >> turns out he's a writer for the emmys. his name is paul greenberg. and i'm surprised he didn't know to stay out of the area. someone should have -- kind what kind of an operation are they running? the emmys. you think they'd have the best people running it. so unprofessional. >> so that's the emmys. and jimmy kimmel's version of louis bergdorf, who appears on our set for no good reason. >> all the time. >> what i learned today is that canada has two reasons, two sources of pride, one, blackberry, and two, teld cruz. "the wall street journal" this morning suggesting sales on both of those. brian, what did you learn? >> lars ulrich stopped playing tennis because he didn't think he had the discipline. wanted to play rock 'n' roll and have fun. you don't get to rock for 32 years unless you're pretty

disdisciplined. >> good point. >> i was with mika the first megadeth to metallica. back sabbath. >> i know what i learned today, joe. what david axelrod sent me. to answer your question, because he couldn't get in, apparently. obama passed the lugar lsh obama act, the coburn/obama transparns si act, teamed up with coburn to install financial oversight on the kath relief effort and to provide competitive bidding for kath. >> i think lewis is behind you. thank you. so you made my point. that unless somebody is specifically running to help get barack obama elected democrats selected a guy who had no idea was anything other than a rock star. donny, what have you learned? >> i learned -- you know, dule hill was doing a little soft shoe and john heileman whispered

to me he is a great ballroom dancer. we did not know that. >> donny and i am going out tonight. i'm going to lead and donny will follow. >> i'm a top guy, so i don't know about that. >> that's disturbing. all right. if it's way too early it's "morning joe." thank you for your patience today. i think you need -- i think we required more patience of you today than on most days. hopefully one day all of your patience in "morning joe" will be rewarded. right now, stick around. you of got chuck todd and "the daily rundown." by chance, on purpose, will there be an impromptu formalized handshake or photo at the united nations today between president obama and iran's new president? has the time finally come for a tone-changing moment? it's about a photo, not a speech. also today, the president's u.n. speech isn't the only big speech on the schedule. he'll be with former president bill clinton at t c