and be sure to watch maria at the alma awards starting at 10:00 eastern here tonight on msnbc. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a great weekend. "hardball" starts right now. lost weekend. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews up in boston. let me start tonight with this. washington goes to war. this weekend the nation's capital becomes ground zero in the fight over the country's future. will the congress agree to keep the american government working beyond monday night? will it refuse to do unless the president agrees to eliminate the affordable care act.

the chances of a peaceful outcome on all these fronts appears weak or remotely foreseeable. but to the election of their own districts. a strong majority of those districts voted against barack obama in november. even as the overall population voted for him. and this, i believe, is the cruel arithmetic that drives the divide in today's american politics. while the big city has given the president the majority and mandate, the district by district vote in rural areas has given the republicans their mandate. the vote against obama and the health care act that will join him in the history books. i make one prediction tonight. and even this is based on a hypothetical. if obama agrees to any bit, he will be rebuked as no president has before. and not just by the right. the irony is those on the political right are asking him, barack obama, to end his political life by his own hand.

it is for this reason they haven't figured out the end game. if obama will not do what they bhand he do, the only thing we can predict is the government will be shut down monday night at midnight. that will not be the ending of it. but the beginning. an episode in history that will not end the way the perpetrators say they want it to. david gregory, peter baker. david, i'm just not optimistic. with fewer than four days to go until a government shutdown, the senate passed a spending bill. the bill passed on a party line vote as was expected. before that the senate voted to end debate which required 60 votes. ted cruz has been lobbying to reject it. in the end, 79 voters voted to invoke cloture including 25 republicans. ted insisted the fight wasn't over. let's watch. >> today unfortunately the united states senate, the democrat-led senate refused to

listen to the american people. but this process is not over. it will now go back to the house of representatives. when it returns to the senate and after the house acts, it will return to the senate. i am hopeful and optimistic that will present an opportunity for senate are ms to come home, for senate republicans to be reunited. i'm hopeful the next time this continuing resolution is before the senate in the next few days, that all 46 senate republicans stand together united arm in arm with the house republicans and against the train wreck, the nightmare that is obama care. >> well, later this afternoon the president had some stern words of his own for house republicans. let's watch. >> the house republicans are so concerned with appeasing the tea party that they threatened a government shutdown or worse unless i gut or repeal the affordable care act. i said this yesterday, let me repeat it. that's not going to happen.

so over the next three days, house republicans will have to decide whether to join the senate and keep the government open or shut it down. because they can't get their way. >> here's how speaker john boehner responded. quote, the house will take action that reflects the fundamental fact that americans don't want a government shutdown. they don't want the train wreck that is obama care. grand standing from the president who refuses to even be part of the process won't bring congress any closer to a resolution. david, to you, your thoughts as you approach this sunday's program and what looks like a pretty dreary weekend for compromise. >> i think it is dreary. i've got senator ted cruz as my exclusive guest on sunday. he's in the middle of this. but i think you raised the key point. what is the end game? the president's not going to give on obama care. republicans are not going to come home as senator cruz hopes they will with another shot to vote on defunding obama care.

and senator cruz talks about rallying the american people who are so engaged in this. are there a lot of protests around the country, people who want to unwind obama care at this point? surely it is unpopular, there's no question about that. there's certainly a lot of people who would not like to see it become law. but it is law. it's law. and now it's about to go live in and the exchanges are up. people are going to begin signing up. i'm with you. i don't see the end game for all of this drama. it's not clear what they've accomplished particularly since there's nothing to unwind at this point. the president would have to as you say, all of a sudden volunteer to dismantle everything that has been held up. so republicans who have been calling me today say this is fantasy on the part of those like ted cruz who are making this push. >> peter, i think david's word fantasy is great. sometimes to figure what's going

on, i try to imagine what would happen if something else happened. if the president were to give in and say i'm putting them on my hands, we're going to kill obama care. the one thing that puts me in the history books besides being the first african-american president, i'm going to kiss good-bye to. imagine the turmoil on the left and right that says has this guy lost it? is it a reasonable demand that could keep the government going or are they dead set on a shutdown? >> well, look. they do seem set on a shutdown of some sort. to speak to their point of view, i think they think they're acting on principle. in their view, this is a principle stand against the obama health care program. having said that, i think the chances of the president capitulating that you outlined seem pretty remote. he's made clear this is something he won't negotiate on. he said it yesterday and will say it again today. he'll probably say it again over the weekend. because you say this is a central signature achievement.

to give in on this is to not only give up the one thing he has left in terms of a large legislative legacy. also to send a signal he's weak and can be rolled. that's something the white house is cognizant of and don't plan to give the republican congressmen that kind of reaction. >> go ahead, david. >> i was going to say this is a second term president now who has the luxury to think about what message he sends for future presidents. so i can tell you talking to his top advisers that they are quite dug in on the idea of not wheeling and dealing when it comes to the debt limit. and again, i know a lot of people think that's posturing and he'll find a way to do it. but i think they feel they're at a strong political position to say absolutely no way, no how, we're not going to do it. >> let me ask you about the difference between john boehner who looks like he's having a terrible time, just watching him. the guy's face looks like what a week he's had. i wonder if he's sleeping.

i'm thinking this. if each congressional member of congress votes their district, i think it's 232 districts voted against obama last november, they're safe at home. but the leadership has to think nationally. that dichotomy and division seems to be working this weekend, working its will. how does boehner reflect the national will for obama and has to be respected and the will of the districts adding up to them not wanting obama care. or obama. how does he figure it? >> there is a way to do that, but it may mean that "a," he loses any leverage that he wants to use on the debt ceiling or he loses his speakership. because what's the rip cord as one of the aides said to me. it's go to the democrats. use democrats to get over the line. he could do it here. he could pass the bill that the senate passed which funds the government for the rest of the year, but restores that obama care funding. if he has to rely on democrats for that, doesn't he lose all

leverage in the debt ceiling fight if it comes to that or worse. so he's got about 45 members here, tea party folks, who are as you say getting calls from ted cruz. they are -- boehner thought he had them on board, and now they're excited about what cruz has done and said you have to keep at it. they're going to keep going and resisting. >> here's cruz last night on sean hannity. he told many fellow republicans they're scared. he's saying they're scared of being blamed for a government shutdown where he isn't afraid. let's watch. >> a lot of republicans, they've been here a long time. and they're beaten down. and they're scared that if we stand together on this and if a government shutdown results, that republicans will be blamed and it's too politically risky. you know, i just think we need to stand for principle and actually stand together. >> i've never seen peter, a

person stand so far apart from their party to the point where they're basically saying these other guys have lost the fight. they don't have any fight in them and i do. >> is well, that's right. look at the back and forth on the floor with senator mccain earlier this week and senator cruz shows you the personal and deep divide you see. senator mccain chastised senator cruz for using the appealmeseme. that the republicans are appeasing the tea party. so a lot of freighted historic comparisons here. but the white house seems very, almost serene on this. that even if there is a government shutdown, it won't last very long. that the political blowback will force john boehner to pull the rip cord that david describes and come through with a

continuing resolution that reopens it. >> nobody is going to carry an umbrella to work next week. david, can you divide -- you're a smart guy, but i don't know if you can do this can you divide a root between now and monday where they resolve this damn thing? where they can smoothly continue on through tuesday. >> the way i think you do that is that boehner somehow prevails with his core group there and says, look. let's shift the fight to the debt ceiling. let's attach these things that we think are important including a year delay of obama care. let's bring that fight for awhile to the american people and see where we get with that. we're not going anywhere here. what the blowback he's gotten is let's not capitulate on that too quickly. he could say, look. we've let that ride a little bit here. but let's make the showdown over the debt ceil, higher stakes, more opportunity for the president to feel the heat on this. because i'm with peter.

serenity is one way of putting it. i think the president is almo almost -- he's just quite comfortable out there in the way he's jabbing and punching at republicans. because no president is in a better position than when the opposite party is at each other's throats. that's what's happening. and he's also dealing with a measure here in obama care that is settled. it may not be settled in terms of the impacts on the country, but as a legislative matter, it's settled, as a legal matter it's settled for now. democrats i've talked to today say, look. if republicans instead of having a purity test, if they want to change the law let's talk about the ways we can do that. that debate's not happening, of course, because people don't know a lot of the impacts yet. >> well said. thank you very much peter baker and david gregory. we'll hear more from senator cruz on "meet the press" sunday. coming up, now that the senate has voted to fund the affordable care act and avoid a

government shutdown. the leaders don't want a shutdown, but they're not leading anymore. they're following the tea party and the party right possibly right off the cliff. also, the democratic governor won the nation's poorest state, kentucky, offers the best defense of the affordable care act that i've seen. steve bashir writes get over this. this is the governor of kentucky. get out of the way, he says, so i can help my people in kentucky. also planned parenthood takes on texas. finally tonight, it's your chance to play "hardball" with me. i'm going to answer your twitter questions. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

finally a grownup in the republican party is speaking out against threats of a shutdown. here's new jersey governor chris christie. >> i don't think you hear responsible republican leaders advocating a shutdown of the

federal government. that by definition is a failure. you got to work it out. >> christie's up for re-election this year and likely has his eye on the white house in 2016. he's taking a chance to sound reasonable and make a play for the middle in contrast with other potential 2016 candidates like ted cruz. we'll be right back. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card.

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welcome back to "hardball." the house of representatives will meet tomorrow to figure out how or whether to fund the federal government past midnight on monday. it's anybody's guess what's going to happen because republican members aren't following their leaders these days and the leaders aren't really setting a clear direction. what we may learn this weekend is who's in charge of the party. the establishment or people on the right like ted cruz of texas. joining me now is john kul ber son and brad sherman. congressman kul ber son, i was trying to speculate because i've never seen anything like this.

do you think if ted cruz were to say you know what, let's throw in the towel on this baby. we're going to fight on the default issue. would that change people's opinions or are they set already? >> my job description is representative. my constituents, the people of texas are adamantly opposed to the imposition of we really ought to call democrat care. this was jammed through on a straight line party vote without a committee hearing. remember the senate sent this over and less than 24 hours later it was jammed through the house. no one had a chance to read it. even nancy pelosi said at the time we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it. and on the effects it's having on driving up premiums and making the cost of health insurance unaffordable to so many people and the intrusion of the federal government into our lives, people of texas don't want any part of it.

we want to use whatever legislative vehicle we can to stop it, repeal it, defund it, delay it. whatever it takes. i'm in their -- >> congressman sherman, your view? your reaction to that. >> no one doubts republicans hate obama care. the question is are they willing to destroy the american economy and run up huge costs in the american government just to show us what we already know which is that they don't like obama care. the fact is obama care is the law. it's going to remain in force. already democrats have made a huge concession. this is a funding bill. we've agreed to the republican funding levels which is the most important thing in a funding bill. we are coming in seven or eight points below the senate budget. we're coming in line with the ryan budget. that concession has already been made to the point where nobody's even talking about it. then we're told that we're going to mutilate the american economy and government unless they get

to win the battle that they lost on the floor of the house in 2010. that's a rather extreme bargaining position. it's not consistent with americans who just want us to get along, compromise, and keep things efficient. >> let me ask you congressman culberson. i think this is a good debate and we don't know how obama care is going to work. you're right about everything. let's talk about technique here. do you think the president here is a rabbit? do you think he'll just run away? what do you think we will all think of him if he buckles to your demand to basically get rid of obama care? what will you think of him as a person, as a man if he does that? >> it's not our demand. it is the -- we are representing our constituents and we're standing on principle. >> what would you think by eliminating his number one achievement? >> i think the president has already diminished himself in the way he handled the situation in syria, in the way he handled himself with russia.

i think president obama has diminished the office by his own behavior. and not anything that we are -- >> i'm not getting into this. >> chris, let me ask you this. >> one question. go ahead. >> my friend brad sherman and i, we have already passed in the house the military appropriations bill. for pentagon, military construction, veterans, energy and water. we did that in june. the senate could have avoided this by passing the essential bills they had for 90 days. this would not be a problem for our military or homeland security, by the way. >> let me straighten the record out here. do you believe president obama was legitimately elected twice? >> of course. >> you're not a birther. or anything like that. you don't question his birth? >> no, sir. we have a legitimate difference on principle here.

we don't want the federal government socializing the greatest health care system created in the history of the world. >> that's your philosophy. i accept that. do you believe that the affordable care act was passed legitimately by the congress, both houses 60 votes in the senate and signed by the president when he was re-elected? do you believe that to be true? >> of course, chris. but laws can be changed. congress changes laws all the time. we're elected to do so. and we've been in this last election, this was a keystone of ted cruz's election and my election. i support ted cruz. we are both committed as are the texas republicans to defund, delay, repeal obama care. >> okay. that's all true. but congressman sherman, i have to say this before you say it. every american knew obama was for obama care when they re-elected him. mitt romney ran against him on it. the public chose obama for a second term knowing he was obama care. and they said yes. that's my point. >> a majority of democrats voted to have -- be represented in

congress by a democrat. it's just due to the j gerrymandering. they may say we're divided on obama care is good or bad. but we're united in the belief we should not shut down the government or impair our credit in order to eliminate obama care. it's one thing to be convinced that we should take a particular course of action on health care. it's another thing to destroy our economy in order to get what you want or even get what your constituents want. >> actually, brad, we took care of the credit problem in the bill we sent to the senate. had language in it that said the united states will always pay principal and interest on the debt. and the senate stripped that language out. we're committed to protecting the full faith and credit of the united states as you know, brad. >> could you imagine going back to your district saying we paid china and we're not paying social security recipients. >> actually, social security,

brad, runs on autopilot. those checks will continue to go out. >> let me ask you congressman culberson. let's move ahead two weeks. >> you're confusing the appropriations process with the debt process. >> okay. let me go ahead two weeks from now. tell me about your thinking about the debt and the question of extending the debt limit and how you deal with those amendments. a lot of them have -- what do they have to do with offshore oil. what does hat got to do with keeping the government's full faith and credit out there. it seems not germane unless you're an oil guy. why are we talking about those amendments? >> magic number in the house is 218. our leadership is looking to find a way to get 218 votes, and at the same time try to save enough money to offset the increase in the debt limit which my constituents also feel very strongly about. texans do not want the government to pass this debt on

to our kids. nor do i. so we're looking for a way to offset that debt increase at least dollar for dollar. >> is boehner buying votes? >> of course not. no, no, no. this is a matter of principle. this is a matter of core principle. you've got great ideas that have passed the house that conservatives believe in as a matter of principle. and by putting these different ideas together on the debt ceiling bill, chris, they're matters of principle. i think that's a great idea and that might help cause me to support -- >> what's the principle of exploiting federal lands for oil and gas? what's the principle there? >> we can make the united states energy independent, chris. we've discovered more oil and gas in the last ten years than has been discovered in the entire history of the united states. but president obama and the democrats are trying to block its production. it's crazy. i would love to tell the middle east to basically, you know, pound sand. we don't need your oil or gas because we have it here in the united states.

in particular, texas. that's why. >> why do you think all these goodies having added to the bill arguing whether the democrats don't agree to oil and gas exploitation and exploration in the federal lands, they don't agree to the keystone, the federal government is going into default. i think that's an odd demand. your thoughts. >> that's what taking hostages is all about. the hostages aren't germane to the ransom that you're trying to get. if you can convince the american congress that we ought to change our oil and gas policy, fine. but you don't take the full faith and credit of the united states hostage. likewise, you don't pass a law that says that the executive branch will have so much money, but it's supposed to pay 19% more. and we do, unfortunately, borrow 19% of what we pay out and say we have to pay china but you don't have to pay social security. you don't have to pay veterans

benefits. to -- >> we have to wrap, i'm sorry. congressman culberson, please come back. i like debating with you guys. it's more fun than anything i can think of. >> it's fun. >> thank you. up next, your chance to play "hardball." i'm going to answer your twitter questions coming up next. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ca had big dreams for her wedding. i want peacocks. peacocks? walking the grounds. in tuscany. [ man ] her parents didn't expect her dreams to be so ambitious. italy? oh, that's not good. [ man ] by exploring their options, they learned that instead of going to italy, they could use a home equity loan to renovate their yard and have a beautiful wedding right here while possibly increasing the value of their home. you and roger could get married in our backyard. it's robert, dad. [ female announcer ] come in to find the right credit options for your needs. because when people talk, great things happen. because when people talk, help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do.

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i don't think this was such a good idea. i'm on it. if we can't secure the quarterback center exchange... you're doing a great job, coach. well they're coming along better than i anticipated. very pleased. who told you to take a break? [ male announcer ] want to win your own football fantasy? just tell us. then use your visa card for a chance to win it. welcome back to "hardball." it's time now for our segment let's play "hardball" where you the audience gets to turn the tables on me and ask me anything on twitter. let's start with a question from a user. she asked what would tip o'neill think of the tea party? he's enjoy them to a point. he called the crowd three stooges for awhile. then talking about patriotism, he got hot about that. and the funny part was over. and this comes from donna of oklahoma city.

quote, chris simple yet complicated question. how do the republicans keep getting away with this nonsense? over the top really. it comes down to the numbers. 435 congressional districts, a big majority of them people voted against obama last time. and the members of congress from those districts are very comfortable voting against obama care and the whole works. they're comfortable at home. the problem is they're not thinking nationally. and that is definitely boehner's job. he's got to do it if they don't. the next question from john of louisville, kentucky. chris, why did jimmy carter lose the election in 1980? i think it was iran. i think it was the hostages. i think iran has played a huge part in politics ever since. and if you have a question for me, any other question, just tweet your questions to @hardball underscore chris. we'll be right back after this. la's known definitely for its traffic,

congestion, for the smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the buses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution into the air. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment.

here's what's happening. in a historic phone call to iranian president hassan rowhani, president obama said the two nations have an opportunity to work for resolving the nuclear issue. he also said a breakthrough could have benefits elsewhere in the middle east region. the council will vote tonight on eliminating the syrian chemical weapons. and must allow same-sex marriages because the federal government now recognizes them. now back to "hardball." here is a prediction for you. a few years from now when people are using this to get coverage and everybody's feeling pretty

good about the choices of competition they've got, there are will folks who said yeah, yeah, i always thought this was excellent. i voted for that thing. you watch. it will not be called obama care. >> welcome back to "hardball." president obama took on the koch brothers without naming them for funding those off-putting awful ads that show uncle sam about to perform a gynecological exam. >> some of the tea party's biggest donors, some of the wealthiest men in america are funding a cynical ad campaign trying to convince young people not to buy health care at all. i mean, think about it. these are billionaires several times over. you know they've got good health care.

but they are actually spending money on television trying to convince young people that if you've got the choice between getting affordable health care or going without health care, you should choose not having any health care. now, do you think if you get sick or you get hurt and you get stuck with a massive bill these same folks, they're going to help you out? >> the president was being nice. that ad is sick-o. it's uncle sam looking up a girl's dress. it's unbelievable advertising. "the new york times" today, governor steve beshear pointed out that more than 600,000 people in his state are uninsured and need help. then he took a swipe at mitch mcconnell and rand paul. quote, to those more worried about political power than

kentucky's families, i say get over it. the affordable care act was approved by congress and sanctioned by the supreme court. get over it and get out of the way so i can help my people here in kentucky. we cannot afford to waste another day or another life. perry baker and robert hoops. perry, thank you. i think it's so amazing that late in this ball game, this political game over whether we go back and look at obama care after it's been passed and signed and approved by the supreme court, that the kentucky governor had the best way of selling it. not about politics but about patients. people who need health care. >> exactly. i was actually in kentucky on saturday, and i went to this event -- this state fair style event where they're trying to vote the health care law in kentucky. and the key thing there, they set up a program called ky-nect. that's what they've dubbed their obama care there. when you're in a state fair

talking to people, it's not a political conversation. it comes down to pre-existing conditions, health care, your relatives, who's not insured. and that's what steve beshear is talking about. they're trying to make this less than a political issue in kentucky and more we want to save people's lives and here's how we're doing it. i think the piece he wrote today is one of the more defensive articles i've seen. >> robert, i think i know cruz's politics although it's taken me a long time to figure it out. rich lowrie came out with it today. it's like reagan opposing the panama canal knowing it's going to be approved but this puts him on the hard right for the next election. even though he was wrong on the issue, certain i i think he was, he positions himself as the most nationalistic, the most all that stuff in that position to win the nomination the next time. but it seems to me that there's no real argument except that they're afraid that it will be

popular. and that's what they're afraid of. if they thought it was going to be a mess, they'd say bring it on. what's that tip o'neill did when reagan came in. he said pass this crap. we'll see how bad it is. and i think when you have that kind of confidence, you don't get in its way. your thoughts. >> well, i think you're right, chris. they've tried so hard to stop this for so long. 43 votes in the house, the supreme court, presidential election. the polling for the kinds of things they talk about at these state fairs like no penalties for pre-existing conditions, no caps on lifetime coverage, keeping your kids on after they graduate from college. everybody, you'd think, would be for those things. and once people learn about them next week when there's these programmatic rollouts that are going to be taking place, people are going to get facts. they're going to see the price points on these things and they're going to be able to see the benefits of these things.

and they're going to gravitate to them. >> i hear you. that's all good middle class argument. perry, the reason i supported health care is not for all these reasons. i think he well explained there. but it was because there's 40-some million people in the country without health care. they go to the work and catch the bus at 6:30 but don't have health care because they can't afford it. that's who i cared about. the president never seems to talk about the 40 million people sitting now perhaps in the emergency room. is he afraid to look too much like a poor person's president? what's the fear here? why doesn't he do it the way the democrats for years have sold it? >> i think in the first term, i've talked to the white house officials, they wanted to sell the health insurance program in the first term as a middle class program that helps you reduce costs. but i think yesterday hearing that speech, he's now being more practical and more populous about this. he talked yesterday about how republicans are trying to pull health care away from people who are getting it. i think you're going to hear him

in the next few weeks be more direct. and i think he's getting to where you're talking about, chris. >> yeah. i would add there, too, not just -- >> go ahead. >> it's not just the president. finally the cabinet officials are being rolled out in a thoughtful surrogate program, the vice president's being rolled out talking to nurses. i think there's a much bigger, broader communications program coming out of the white house on this speaking to lots of different audiences. >> here he is. the president taking on the republicans yesterday asking what are they so afraid of. let's listen to the president. >> i mean, think about it. if it was as bad as they say it's going to be, then they could let it happen and everybody would hate it so much and then everybody vote to repeal it and that would be the end of it. so what is it they're so scared about? >> you! >> senator cruz answered that

question on what republicans are so afraid of when he spoke this summer, not a million years ago, at the western conservative summit. here's cruz admitting what he's afraid of, believe it or not. >> on january 1, the exchanges kick in and the subsidies kick in. once those kick in, it's going to prove almost impossible to undo obama care. the administration's plan is very simple. get everyone addicted to the sugar so that obama care remains a permanent feature of our society. >> well, talk about elitism. people getting addicted to decent health care. who is this princeton guy making fun of people who need health care hoping they might get it some day and seeing it coming and k and calling it some kind of addicti addiction? >> if you look back, remember ronald reagan in 1960s was sort of famously opposed to medicare.

this is nothing new. so i think this is i'm not surprised by this. but ted cruz is right. his fear is right. if people go online next week, they're going to look at these price plans. if the price is good enough, i don't care if you're a tea party republican or an occupy wall street democrat. if you're looking for cheap health insurance and the prices are right, you're going to sign up for it. i think that is something the republicans are very nervous about. >> exactly what you'd expect of a guy who make fun of people who go to the university of pennsylvania, dartmouth. he looks down on people who need health care and he's saying that's addicts behavior. unbelievable. perry bacon, thank you. robert hoops. up next, planned parenthood takes the fight to texas against abortion providers. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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the other big announcement president obama made in his white house statement late today was historic. the president said he spoke on the phone with iranian president hassan lowe rowhani. that's the first time since 1979 revolution that the leaders from the countries have spoken. he thinks they can reach a comprehensive solution over iran's nuclear program. we'll be right back after this. did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age? [ male announcer ] that's why there's ocuvite to help replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health. ocuvite. help protect your eye health. from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please?

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the state. according to the complaint filed in u.s. district court today at least one in 12 women will have to travel more than 100 miles t the able ility to seek care. this is how, now look at the number of clinics that would be left over after the law takes effect. the republican efforts to reflect the gop's strategy nationwide to restrict access to abortion and health care. joining me now is se sill richards, who actually did and happened to be the daughter of the last democrat and last woman to be governor of texas. ann richards. also with us is contributor joy reid. thanks for joining us. it seems to me those of us who know something about roe v. wade says you can't place an undue burden, you can't place an undue burden. is is what they're doing in

texas an undue burden? >> absolutely, chris. i mean, this bill was so extreme of course rick perry couldn't get it passed through the regular session of the legislature. called two special sessions, finally jammed it through. it would have a devastating impact on women's health care in texas and that's why planned parenthood joined today with the center for reproductive rights and the aclu and filed in federal court in austin. the women in texas, this is just yet another blow to their access to health care in the state. >> well, if a woman is considering an abortion, considering terminating a pregnancy and she thinks about her options and obviously, lots of moral reflection in most cases and thinks about it and then has to do how to go about doing it. geographically, what will this law now do? >> literally, this is going to result in the closure of dozens of health centers in the state of texas. it's a state of 26 million

people. and we're going to be reduced to a point in which women are going to have to travel hundreds of miles and already, restrictions on women are so heavy in texas, that means two trips to a doctor's office and for so many women, that's simply impossible. and i think the other thing that is sort of perhaps an unintended consequence, but it's going to be a result as well, is that you know, rick perry already ended the texas women's, the health program in texas, so that cut off more than 100,000 women off of health care in texas, preventive care, and these clinics that are going to have to close as a result, not only provide safe and legal abortions, they provide cancer screenings, birth control and for a lot of women, the only doctor visit they get all year. >> i have confidence in the courts generally speaking. they seem to know when voter suppression is the purpose of some photo i.d. law, and do you think they will see what we're really talking about here is

creating an undue burden? in other words, finding ways around the edges to outlaw abortion. >> if you look at the recent voter rights decisions, the courts have a good track record on this. when you have to traverse the state in order to exercise this right, i think yeah, there's a good chance that courts will restrict it, but i think on the other side, the lawsuit itself is activating a lot of younger women, who never understood this right was in jeopardy, i think the lawsuit will raise the profile of the issue, which is again, i think bad for the brand of the republican party even in a conservative state like texas. >> i'm looking at virginia now. that close state. it's so much about whether state now virginia. used to be the old dominion, now, metropolitian because in northern virginia, all the single women and other women living there.

is that going to be another great test of women's voting power because cuccinelli is so tough on the issue? >> absolutely. it's incredible to see what's happening in virginia. public polls are showing an 18 to 24-point gap of women support for terry mcauliffe against ken cuccinelli, completely based on the extremism of cuccinelli's positions. this cannot help when you have a state of texas now essentially taking away a right women have had for 40 years. what i don't understand is how the republican right can't get off these issues. it's been ironic in texas, ranks 45th out of 50 states on women. for women. and this is a state that needs to be actually doing more for women, not trying to take them back to the 1950s and women are paying attention. i think joy's exactly right. >> joy, thank you for joining us

and thank you, cecile richards. when we return, how divided government can work. it's possible, you know. it's happened before and you're watching "hardball", the place for politics. too small. too soft. too tasty. [ both laugh ] [ male announcer ] introducing progresso's new creamy alfredo soup. inspired by perfection.

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i'm about to begin an important week for a number of reasons. beginning sunday with an appearance on "meet the press," i'll inaugurate a discussion between tip o'neill and president reagan. when politics worked. it's my eyewitness account of the half dozen years of the 1980s when these two political giants, both irish americans fought it out philosophically, but also found a way to work things out. it's a story of common humanity across party lines and a bipartisan patriotism which set the standard for the world. going to be a big week. on sunday, "meet the press" with david gregory. on tuesday, the "today" show and on msnbc from "morning joe" to the last word. wednesday, "the colbert report." i hope i can tell this important story with the importance it deserves. we need to understand, we need

to hope that this weekend's march to the cliff is not the norm, much less the ideal of thousand american government, even in divided political time, must be run. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. tonight, not one, but two foreign policy have me wondering if we are now seeing in action, president-elected in 2008. the one who ran on a flat form, diplomacy over war. rachel mjoins me. but tomorrow, the continuing resolution upon the government with just three short days until the government shutdown. >> it's starting to look like we may be having a harder time avoidi