d focusing on what you need to know so you can get a degree at your pace. and graduate at the speed of you. flexpath from capella university learn more at capella.edu breaking right now, at this hour, the united states creeps closer and closer to its first government shutdown in nearly two decades. right now the house is getting ready to debate a new spending plan. a vote is expected at some point this evening. but senate majority leader harry reid is calling this a nonstarter. is there any way of stopping the shutdown before then. good saturday evening. i'm craig mall venn. we are waiting for a vote in

this house on that new stending plan by republicans to fund the government. the proposed plan, among other things would delay obamacare by one year. it would also repeal the medical device tax and in a separate bill it would ensure that members of the military would still get paid in the event of a shutdown. just moments ago the white house released a statement saying, quote, the president has shown he's willing to improve the health care law and meet republicans more than halfway. but he will no do so under threats of a government shtdown that will hurt our economy. any members of the republican party who votes for this bill is voting for a shutdown. that coming a few moments ago from the white house. luke russert has been in the middle of this three. ring circus all day. first of all, when is the vote actually posed to happen this evening? >> reporter: that's a good question. we were told it was mostly going to happen by 8:00 p.m. but the

schedule was fluid and they're agreeing to sort of the process right now which is the rule on the vote and how to move forward. probably going to be later in the evening. the gop conference is supposed to meet one more time. i would guess around 10:00 p.m. or at least as 11:00 p.m. what's good news for the house gop leadership is that unlike the last few bills of the shutdown, this one is on track to pass with only republican votes but it's gotten the approval from the outside approval groups, groups like heritage action, club for growth. those types of groups are very much in favor of the legislation. >> what's happening right now? what's going on in the united states capitol right now? are lawmakers talking to each other?

are they trying to hammer out a compromise or have they all pretty much resigned themselves to the inevitable? >> reporter: house democrats are sitting here watching the show very much like you and i are. i've talked to a lot of the house democrats and they're constantly asking me for updates. house republicans they're going down the plan. many of them know it's going to run into a very difficult situation. so there's a lot of college football on here in the capitol. a lot of members are wearing college football gear today. they were fired up for their respective teams. sort of waiting for the vote to happen. basically no one knows how this is going to end because we know that john boehner has to pass a clean bill with democratic votes. so the question is, when will he do that? it's not going to be today or tomorrow. it won't probably be on monday. and when we get to monday at midnight, you have the shutdown,

maybe new negotiations talk. but this idea that both sides are in the room and cigar smoke going on and the lights are flickering, no, that's not happening at all. this is basically watching the house gop trying to get the bill through. they'll say they did their job. harry reid says he's not moving on it. >> is it our understanding at this point that the senate majority leader harry reid has already said that not only is this thing going to be dead on arrival but he's not even going to call the senate back tomorrow? >> reporter: so far that's what we've heard. the senate is on track to come back at 2:00 p.m. on monday. meaning they won't be in tomorrow. so tomorrow literally the day before the government is supposed to shut down could be a total get away day. which whatever message that sends to the american people, it can't be a good one for optics at least.

this is a very strong arm strategy from democrats. they felt in past negotiations, they don't want to move any farther to the right. they feel even the fact they're allowing the sequester to continue is more of a concession for the republicans. they're more than happy to sit back on this one. as long as you have that, we're going to still be in the same predicament. >> it sounds like at this point we are headed for a shutdown. >> reporter: at least for a few days of some sort because no one seems to be wanting to budge. >> stand by, i want to come back to you in a few minutes. >> reporter: sounds good. >> what's the politics? what are the politics behind what we are watching play out on the hill. earlier this afternoon i talked to florida republican congress who admitted that for many in this party this is all about delaying obamacare in the 2015 mid terms in the hope they can

reclaim the senate and repeal the law all together. >> i think that the economy can begin to function. what happens. there's a political part to this. >> there's a political part to the whole thing. >> yes. and what's going to happen is we're going to win the senate and then we're then going to be able to do what's best for the american people. that is why the ball is not in my court anymore. the ball is in harry reid's court. the government shutdown rides on him. we're doing the right thing. we're here, working, we're going to pass the bill. we're going to keep government open and we're going to delay obamacare for a year. >> congressman, your initial reaction to that hearing a colleague admit this that this is essentially an effort to kick the can down the road. >> well, that's not a real form of governing. it's not offering real solutions

and unfortunately it's more of the same where we have a fraction of the republican conference in the house that's led by the tea party extremists that are making these very significant demands on a process that is just about keeping government open for the remaining months of this year. >> there are those who have suggested that you and your democratic colleagues are sitting on the sidelines right now just rubbing your hands together, chomping at the bit, loving how all of this is playing out because you know that come 2014 you will probably reap the rewards of this gridlock. whatcy you do that? >> it's not about politics. it's not for me and i's not for the majority of my colleagues, the house democrats who want to pass a clean continuing resolution. i just got back from my district earlier this morning. i have people who are already being affected by the sequestration who on tuesday may not be able to show up to work.

and if they do show up, may not get paid. this is real. we have 40 million tourists that come to las vegas. there may be delays in them being able to process their visas. so the consequences are real. this is not about politics and it's time for speaker boehner and the house republicans to allow for a vote on a clean continuing resolution so that we can keep government funded. >> what's happening in the lower chamber right now? just give us a sense of who's doing what and where it's happening? are people talking? is there someone trying to hammer out a compromise somewhere or are folks just sitting around essentially resigning themselves to the fact that our government is going to shut down? >> well our leadership has been meeting with all of our members in the house democratic caucus providing us with regular yup dates. i have talked to several of my colleagues. craig, look. there are members, house

republicans that would join with house democrats to pass a clean continuing resolution. >> who? name names. >> but unfortunately there's a fraction of tea party extremists who are holding the process hostage. and if speaker boehner concedes his gavel to the tea party then we will have a government shut down come tuesday. >> who are the moderate republicans who are willing to join the dems? >> they are individuals who understand the consequences of a government shutdown. the fact that 800,000 employees will be furloughed. social security for new beneficiaries will be delayed. and as i said in my home state of nevada, tourists who are trying to come and be part of our economic tourist base will not be able to travel or will be delayed in that travel. so there are real consequences

and my hope is that the moderate republicans will push back on their extremists colleagues. >> what makes you think that? at this particular point what would give you that hope? >> well my hope is that we'll do the right thing on behalf of the american public. this is not about partisanship. this is why the american public is so frustrated with correct me if i'm wrong to begin with, that there is this gridlock. that we have a faction that's able to hold the process hostage and it's for what, to keep the government funded for just the next three months? that's all we're talking about. this is not a larger budget plan over several years that we can talk about having a balanced apreach to. this is about meeting or obligations at the current level of funding just through the rest of this year. >> i'm glad you pointed out the ridiculousness of this on going co stuff. you guys can't even pass a fuel budget. it's laughable. >> it's also irresponsible.

it's why the american public is so frustrated. i just returned from any district and people say, can't you all work this out? and i tell them, yes, there is a faction that wants to govern, but unfortunately there's a far right tea party extremist group that doesn't. >> congressman, thank you sir. >> thank you. >> as expected senate democrats none too happy with today's action in the lower chamber. harry reid call the republican's plan quote pointless. he said in a statement this afternoon, to be absolutely clear, the senate will reject both the one-year delay of the affordable care act enthe repeal of the medical device tax. after weeks of futile political games from republicans, we are stale still at kwar one. republicans must decide whether to pass the senate's clean cr or force a republican government shutdown. goldie taylor is the managing

editor of the goldie taylor project. robert, i'm going to start with you. i know you've been talking to some of the republican leadership. at this point is there any hope that we avert a shutdown or should we start to prepare for that? >> i think you better prepare for one. at the 11th hour let's say the republicans come up with a clean cr they can send over to the senate. maybe it has a minor concession on balm care. but we really look like we're heading to a shutdown. >> how did we get here? >> we got here because there's a right flank within the house republican congress that does not want speaker boehner to cut any kind of deal with senate democrats forcing the speaker to follow along like he's doing tonight to have a one-year delay in obamacare. we're going through the motionings right now as we head toward a shutdown.

>> goldie taylor, i heard you on the air a little while ago. i think congressman horseford alluded to it. it's outright disgusting to a lot of folks that this is how our government is going to be run for the foreseeable feature, crawling from one crisis to the next. >> it's laughable, irresponsible and downright dangerous for far too many families that are going to have to endure the imminent government shutdown. it isn't just the people inside the beltway that are going to be impacted. there will be first, second and third chair fed call contractors who will not get paid. so we're talking about a very, very dangerous situation here that really i don't think can be averted. the fact of the matter is my colleague is right. we've been heading towards this a very long time. we've had 40-plus votes in terms

of trying to repeal obamacare. we're having this one now and we're going to have another one. it seems like they would like to delay it a year so they can take control of the u.s. senate and kill the program all together. that's not going to happen. never is this president going to sign a delay and never is this gop with this far right flank going to take other this u.s. senate. >> robert costa, here's the other part of this. you would think that smart guys and women as well, very intelligent, most of them, a lot of them have a whole bunch of money. i mean, you would think that they're sitting in a room and some point someone says to them, you know what, the last time we shut down the government, we got blamed for it. it cost us an election. is that conversation not being had? >> it's being had. you have a lot of veterans in the house, the older members, the republicans that were around in 1995 and they remember that

ended quite poorly for republicans and they don't want to go through it again. but you have a lot of younger member bers who are never been through a shutdown and they're ready to see what happens. >> a lot of people are taking to twitter. this is congressman jason cha vas, quote it's reasonable to delay obamacare for one year. it is not ready for prime time and so many delays have already been put into place. congressman virginia fox will vote again vote to put obamacare on hold congressman tom price ready to vote with house republicans. will listen to the republican people -- listen to the american people and pass it. goldie, you know, at some point you would think and you just alluded to it, more than 40 votes have been taken.

at what point does it stop? when does this end? >> well it doesn't stop until we send them home. so that's really the plain fact of the matter. but there are three very dangerous implausible messages coming from republicans. one that this will be the democrats fault that the government is shut down and in fact it is just the opposite. two, they believe somehow or another this is the will of the american people. the american people voted the congress that approved obamacare, they reelected this president based on obamacare. so this really is the will of the people that this can go through. and then the last part of this is, and this is a flat out lie, the idea that they want to delay obamacare for a year because it isn't ready for prime time? they want to delay it because they want to kill it. this kind of disingenuous message that's kooming out of house gop and senate gop isn't going to fly.

>> big thanks to both of you. folks we continue to watch closely the breaking developments on capitol hill. we'll bring you new details when that happens. up next, diplomatic break through, what led to that surprising phone call between president obama and i ran's new president? [ male announcer ] now, taking care of things at home is just a tap away. ♪ introducing at&t digital life... ♪ ...personalized home security and automation... [ lock clicks ] ...that lets you be closer to home. that's so cool. [ male announcer ] get $100 in instant savings when you order digital life smart security. limited availability in select markets. ♪ i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy

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it is going to be a late night on capitol hill, a saturday night on capitol hill. that is quite rare, late night is rare and late saturday night is even rarer. the house preparing to vote on the republican plan to fund the government through mid october. the white house announced that the president will be vie toing any bill that delays implementation of obamacare. you can stay with msnbc as we continue to bring you breaking developments throughout the night. we are keeping a close eye on the lower chamber.

meanwhile it took only a short phone call to break decades of silence. president obama telephoned iran's president rue juw ru jua rouhani. it is the first time they'a u.s president has spoken to. president of iran in 30 years. the president addressed the nation. shortly after that phone call, this is just part of what he said. >> while there will surely be important obstacle to moving forward an success is by no means guaranteed, i believe we can reach a comprehensive solution. >> first of all, just in broad terms, what do you make of the phone call and what kind of obstacles is the president talking about?

what kind of obstacles could president obama face with talks with iran? >> well the iranians have shown they're very tough negotiatorne. they use delay toed a skrans their program. they mislead, they hide things. rue handny said they never engage in secrecy. they're secretive and misleading all of the time. they're tough to negotiate but i happen to agree with the president that he ought to try. >> what's the likelihood that they're duping us. what's the likelihood that the iranian president is using the administration in some way, shape or form to bolster his position at home? >> i don't know that there is any likelihood that he's doing that right now. but if it looks like he can't pull it off or we get in the way one way or the other, then i think there is a likelihood that he will pull out, which is what

aimmediate did. >> president obama is set to meet with netanyahu on monday. given the developments with iran, how do you think that conversation is going to go? >> i think it will go pretty intensely. netanyahu is very concerned that the u.s. will be taken down a road that goes nowhere, that the iranians will get another year or so of time to gild -- to continue to move toward a nuclear weapon. and he feels probably particularly that there's a danger that the u.s. will start making concessions as gestures in order to get the iranians to negotiate in good faith, which would be a big mistake. >> what's at stake here? why is this such a big deal? >> this is a great opportunity

rouhani is a tough guy. the fact is, though, that he is an insider. he knows the ropes. he has credibility within iran. most of his effort here was to play back to his home crowd. and he did that very well. and he also won a lot of people over here and in europe. so the call, the phone call which he invited was really a signal that he felt confident enough to engage directly with the president and get this, get this possible negotiation moving on a good track. >> thank you for your insight, sir. >> you're very welcome. >> we continue to following breaking news in the nation's capitol. the house set to debate that new gop funding plan. again, senate majority leader

harry reid said it's dead on arrival. the white house said it would vie to the plan. the house set to vote on that plan in a few hours. we'll bring you new details as they happen. up next, we'll take you inside the new library dedicated to none other than george washington. you're watching msnbc. ommitmento the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over!

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well his face and name are everywhere from your money to city as and even a national monument. one thing george washington did not have until now, a presidential library. >> george washington after he left the presidency wrote a let tore a friend and said the last thing he wanted to do was find a house place to house his papers. >> it's a bridge, a university and even money. but while he's everywhere in your live, many at the foot of

the washington mon umt know very little about him. >> the wooden teeth, the couldn't tell a lie. i think that was him? >> house at mountain vernon. >> now on the grounds of his home a place to fill in the blanks, our first prez, the last to have a presidential library. at the time of his death there was an inventory of his books. we have 650 of the volumes and we're continuing to collect them. >> that wasn't clear to anyone. library director took me into the rare book vault. >> this wrinkle of course is that washington doesn't read spanish. >> unlike most presidential libraries you won't find a place for mrs. washington. >> she burned every letter.

>> so basically a love letter written with better words that you and i might use. >> that's exactly right. i might copy that. >> we're 14 miles from the capitol which feels like a lifetime away. so all of the chatter at the library dedication has been about how would the more nonpartisan george washington handled today's washington. be very interesting to talk about. >> yes, chuck todd. thank you. we continue to stay on the breaking news on capitol hill. the house planning to debate the plan that could defund obamacare. live reports from the hill and the white house next. loses his computer, exposing thousands of patient records to identity theft. data breaches can happen that easily. we don't believe you should be a victim of someone else's mistake. we're lifelock. we constantly monitor the web so if any of your personal information is misused, we're on it.

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some answers today for the families of the 19 firefighters killed in the wildfire back in june in arizona. investigators now say that communication problems, communication problems caused by a radio glitch are partly to

blame for the firefighter's death. i'm krig melvin. >> another dramatic fire this time in philadelphia. check this out. flames tearing throw the city's oldest fire house. it happened yesterday. according to officials the fire started when an ambulance parked in the garage erupted in flames. firefighters were returning from a call at the time of the fire. meanwhile in new york, a big drug bust at a day care. that's right. a day care. the nypd found 14 bags of pot in a little girl's backpack. parents say the marijuana belonged to a friend of the family and has now been arrested. stun man pulling off his

latest feet, wearing a winged suit he jumped out of an airplane and flew through a crack. seemed like he had a pretty good time >> it was the single gnarliest thing i've done. i have never experienced anything more hard core, period. >> just a short time ago the white house issued this vie to threat. if the president was presented with hj resolution 59 as amended by these amendments he would vie to the bill. the house of representatives should pass the senate passed hj resolution 59. in plain speak they can send u but i'm not going to sign it. for more let's go to white house correspondent kristen welker. what's the white house preparing for at this hour, kristen?

>> well, krig in plain speak as you say, the white house is essentially digging in its heels. senior officials administration insisting all afternoon that the president is not going to negotiate on the issue of health care, what they view as his signature achievement. jay carney releasing a statement just before the vie to threat was issued. that statement reads in part, quote any member of the republican party who votes for this bill is voting for a shutdown. it's time for the house to listen to the people and pass a bill that keeps the government running and move on. >> to some extent the white house believes that they have some leverage in part because republicans are so divided over this issue. you of course have the tea party members really pushing this effort to defund or delay the president's health care law. but you have the more established republicans saying this is not the time to fight this fight. so some extent you are seeing

the white house sort of step back and let the republicans duke it out amongst themselves. once the bill does pass, if it does in fact pass later tonight through the house, i an its pate there will be more negotiations going on between the house white house and lawmakers tomorrow and meetings occurring today and i anticipate that throughout the weekend. the whout doesn't want a shutdown but it is appearing increasingly more likely at this hour. >> kristen welker from the white house. thank you so much for the update. e want to go back to the hill and get an update there. luke russert is standing by for us there. luke, when we checked in with you about 30 minutes ago, at that time it sounded as if a lot of lawmakers, a lot of the leadership had resigned themselves to the fact that a shutdown is inevitable. has that changed at all? >> no. and the reason being because we still do not know what comes

after this. and when i say this, i mean this republican-backed bill that will most likely be passed later tonight between 10:00 p.m., 12 midnight. the reason it's being delaying is strictly procedural. the gop conference is going to be after meeting around 8:30 p.m. they're going to discuss their messages after they pass their bill, what their members should sfa and how they should go into the last two days of the fight before the government shuts down. you heard from kristen welker, the white house said they're going to vie to the bill if it got through and the senate said they're not going to take it up. everything that comes out of here right now is dead on arrival in the senate and the white house. we don't know what the next step is and that is what people are trying to figure out. if anything that buys john boehner a little bit more time, but the time is ticking until he has to pass more likely than not a clean bill with democratic votes.

when he makes that decision it will be a very difficult one for him to make because it will upset a an element of his conference. and a lot of people want to make red state democrats vote on these issues that they feel they could get democrats in a tough position. however if reid doesn't take it up, it's not going to move anywhere. i can report to you, though, kind of a neat story. there will be one significant member not voting tonight. that's nancy pelosi, the house minority leader because it's her 50th wedding anniversary. even when you have terrible partisanship in washington, d.c., love still reigns supreme. he's not going to go to the vote. she's going to go to dinner with her huds. love is still strong in washington, d.c. >> at least in one house hold. keep us posted. >> again we are still waiting for that final vote on a new spending plan. again this is the plan that's being presented by the house gop

actually presented earlier today. they're hammering out some details now. there's a rules committee meeting going on as well. i want to bring in california's republican congressman tom mcclinic tok. i think he's standing by. good to see you. >> good to see you, craig. first of all, walk us through what's happening right now inside the gop specifically. what's going on in the conference meetings, what are the conversations like at this point? >> well, the conversations are actually quite united. i don't think the republicans are divided on this. i think you're going to see a unanimous or near unanimous vote on the next measure to keep the government open while we deal with the health crisis that's occurring with the implementation of the obamacare. >> what's the crisis again? >> well the crisis is i'm getting floded by phone call, as are all members now, people

seeing their health care plans cancel, the ones they were told they could keep if they like. they're seeing their premiums go through the roof. i've had complaints of over 300% increase in premiums. some of them are ruz lurzing their jobs. we can't pretend that this isn't happening. >> congressman are you aware of a number of reports that surfaced last week that premiums were lower than what many were expects? >> what many were expecting but they're much higher than people are currently paying, again in some cases three times as much. this is a crisis and i'll be reading a lot of letters from constituents that i've been getting in the last several weeks. i think for a lot of people this has been a disstant theoretical discussion, they were told if you liked your plan you can keep it. they believed it and now they're learning that was all a lie. they're losing their plans, they're seeing their premiums skyrocket and they're being cut

back on hours at work. >> what you're talking about now, you're talking about a health care law, obamacare that was not just passed, not just the law of the lapd, not just validated by the supreme court. there have been more than 40 votes take nn the lower chamber, 40 votes. none of them have been successful. and here we are on the brink of a shutdown and you're talking about obamacare again. at what point -- go ahead. >> craig, wait a second. the mandate on big corporations was excused by the president just a few weeks ago. so big businesses aren't affected now by the mandate. congress has been shielded from baring the costs of their obamacare policies that ought to be a wakeup call for everybody. if congressmen don't think they can afford the premiums of obamacare, maybe that's a

warning that we ought to delay the entire program which all of the bugs can be worked out and that the promises made to the american people when that bill was adopted can actually be fulfilled. >> i want to play you a piece of sound from a colleague of yours. this was just a few hours ago on msnbc talking about the move to repeal obamacare. >> i think the economy can begin function. what happens. there's a political part to this. >> there's a political part to the whole thing rnlts what's going to happen is we're going to win the senate and we're then going to be able to do what's best for the american people. >> is that what this is about? i mean at the end to have day -- >> no i don't think so. >> you disagree. none of is -- >> i disagree fundamentally. >> none of this is about kicking the can to 2014 hoping you win the senate all together and you can repeal obamacare? >> no if that were the case we would be stepping bab and letting the train wreck unfold, let obamacare collapse, let all

of those folks that are losing their jobs or seeing their hours cut back, take out vengeance on the authors of obamacare in the next election. i'm not willing to do that. i've got a responsibility to my constituents and they are being hammered of this law as it unfolds. >> that responsibility that you just mentioned to your constituents, is that a responsibility that should supersede the responsibility that you have to the larger poddy of politic? >> well, responsibility of the larger body of politic is not to proceed with a law that we know that is not working. it is to do anything i can with the parameters of the law to see a reasonable compromise where the effect of this plan can be delayed until the bugs can be worked out. >> but you know it's not going to happen. you know the senate is not going to pass it and you know that even if the senate did that the president would vie to.

it's an exercise in futility at at the end of the day i think you probably know it. >> calm down, craig. the president has already delayed a lot of the implementation of obamacare for big businesses, for example. why don't we delay the mandates on the individual employees so they can keep the plans that they like so that they're not being hammered by the massive increases in premiums. so their employers are no longer cutting back on hours trying to keep their doors open. >> why is no one talking about the cost of a shutdown? why haven't i heard anyone today talk about -- >> nobody wants a shutdown. >> no one wants a shutdown? why has there not been a legitimate effort made over the past several days to avoid a shutdown. because you know -- >> craig, the house passed a bill last week to afoid a shutdown. u eats going to pass a bill today to avoid a shutdown. the house and the senate are

designed to act independently. the house is supposed to exercise its best judgment. it did last week and will tonight. the senate did yesterday. but then the two sides are supposed to come together and negotiate the differences between them. but haifrry reid and the president have said they're unwilling to negotiate. our process of government cannot work under those circumstances. and that's something that we're going to have to address in the next 24 hours. >> congressman tom mcclin took, thank you for your evening. >> my pleasure. >> james pet areson is an msnbc contributor. bill, let me start with you. the house adds we just heard there is going to be voting in a few hours, presumably senate democrats, majority leader harry reid has said that measure is going to be rejected. the president has issue the vie to threat. are we back at step one again? >> more or less, yes.

republicans of the house have made one concession. they're not talking about defunding obamacare anywhere. they're talking about delaying obamacare. the president said that's not going to happen either because the preem sums would skyrocket if they delayed the implementation of the mandate and they know that. but they have made that concession. >> james, i understand you were shaking your head a little bit while the congressman was speaking. >> craig i applaud you for your patience because every time you've asked one of these represents about what's at the core of affordable care act, they're giving you anecdotal evidence. when we look at the facts, we can see that these exchanges are in some cases bringing costs down in all cases they're managing inflation. health care cost is about the equivalent of franch's entire economy essentially keeps going up and it outpaces inflation.

so it's not necessarily going up or down it, it's managing the rate of inflation. it's too complicated to get into on tv but i appreciate your patient with our nation's representatives as they do the dance and sound as if they care about the american public. >> i'm glad you think it was patience. here's the thing. i don't think fund mentally this is not a partizan issue. congress raid l from florida said this and i applauded him because i felt like he was being honz. there are a lot of folks in washington, d.c. on the hill right now who know what this is pabt. this is not about the continuing resolution. this is about appeasing a very tiny sliver of folks that can win primaries but cannot win general elections. i don't know how we got to a point where those are the people that are holding us hostage for

lack of a better word. >> our political system is broken. that's why ted cruz can emerge as a star because he can outflank everyone and play presidential politics right now. listen, the last congressman who was on said there's supposed to be some kind of separation between senate and the house. ted cruz has demolished that. he's been directing the ways in which the house republicans are going to respond around the government shutdown. >> bill, just before we go i do want to ask you about this dcc thing we just got. the detective congressional committee already sending out e-mail to raise money for a rapid response fund. it would seem as if now democrats are trying to politicize a potential shutdown as well. trying to raise money off of a shutdown. >> they both are. the republicans are trying to raise money on it also. this has got passions boiling. the congressman reported all of these calls from people who were

suffering. a lot of this is just people who are furious and most republicans respect districts that are overwhelmingly republican and they're complain until they kill obamacare. passions are high on both sides and republicans and democrats are both raising issue on this issue. >> bill snyder, james pete areson, thank you so much for you time on a saturday night. our breaking coverage of the dramatic night on capitol hill continues right after a quick break. ♪ ho ho ho [ female announcer ] at 100 calories, not all food choices add up. some are giant. some not so giant. when managing your weight, bigger is always better. ♪ ho ho ho ♪ green giant [ male announcer ] that's why there's ocuvite to help replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health. ocuvite. help protect your eye health.

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so how scared should we all be hurling towards the government shutdown? joining me you, edward isaac do var. good to see you. thanks for coming in.

how concern should we be be? >> i think pretty concerned at this point. the house republicans do not seem to be moving away from a position that is a position that leads to a shutdown. >> why? why are they not moving? >> why are they not moving? >> yeah >> this is what they've decided they need to do to get unity in their conference. they'd made a decision that unity in their conference is more important than a way that they could negotiate legitimately be the president and the senate to avoid a shutdown. >> to concern about potential backlash from voters in the mid terms. >> we're years away from that. this is how many political gameship they can play with obamacare. it's not really a surprise when the house republicans have voted 42 times to defund obamacare and pull it back that they want to do that this time around. but the president is in a position where he -- it was clear he was never going to go for this and the house republicans kept pushing.

and even this slightly scaled back position where it's a year delay is also something that the president simply can't go for. >> is it merely pandering or is that an over simp occasion? >> pandering to who? >> pandering to the base of that particular wing of the gop. >> those people are the republican caucus at this point. the people who you think of as the primary elector rate are the base, they have members of congress in there who believe this and who either the majority of the republican conference at this point either is a tea party faction or people who are scared enough of where the tea party faction is that they're willing to bend to it or feeling like for political reasons they should bend to the political will of the tea party caucus. >> are we reaping the dirty nasty seeds of gerrymandering that both parties have sold in

this country over the past 20 years? >> that's clearly part of what's going on where you see members of congress who say there's nobody in any district who thinks obamacare should go through and then some members say this is everything we should do. how can it be that members of congress have that much of ady vur jens of opinion. their voters are truly different. >> 15 seconds. what's going to happen when it's time to raise the debt ceiling? >> well that's part of what's going on here and why the white house has not wanted to move on this. because the debt ceiling is really the one that would be the true havoc with the economic if it doesn't get raised. the white house want to make sure that even though a shutdown is bad, this fight goes on ahead of the fight in two weeks that

will have to happen. >> thank you so much for watching our special coverage on this sat night. again, the house expected to hold that vote later this evening. stay with msnbc for live coverage of that vote when it happens. i'll be back tomorrow 3:00 eastern. until then, have a great night. . [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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