for the speaker. put it to a vote. ♪ the shutdown is entering week two. >> the debt limit is right around the corner. >> speaker boehner, who is pretty hard-line when he said -- >> there are not the votes in the house to pass a clean co. >> there are enough votes to make sure the government reopens today. >> you have a very weak hand. >> we've got to put on a poker face. >> there may be a back room somewhere, but there is nobody in it. >> if they don't get 100% of the way, they'll shutdown the government. that has to stop. >> there is a reason why congress has 10 to 15% approval rating. >> it's been causing -- exactly the type of things that he's doing. >> when i came to the senate and i certainly didn't go around trying to shut down the government. >> do you in washington have any idea how totally disgusted the american people are? >> the fact that you're seeing those attacks, i think is addictive of the fact that we're winning the argument.

>> this isn't some damn game. ♪ we begin with week two of the government shutdown and absolutely no clear sign of how it will end. and in a throwback to the protestant work ethic, the house is actually back in session today on a monday, for heavens sake. and right out of the gate, a bullish speaker, john boehner, is pushing back against claims that he is being bullied by right wing rebels. he says he simply can't put a bill on the floor, because he doesn't have the votes to pass a clean continuing resolution. and in his effort to get the president to give in on something, it sounds as though the speaker has already moved on to the next even more cataclysmic fight over the debt limit, while, of course, blaming the president. >> a senior white house staffer this morning said that the

president would rather default on our debt than to sit down and negotiate. now, the american people expect when their leaders have differences and we're in a time of crisis, that we'll sit down and at least have a conversation. >> yes! all the speaker really wants is for the president to call him up, sit down, have a conversation. he said so about 22 times, i think, on sunday. >> we asked to sit down with the senate and have a conversation. worry interested in having a conversation that begins with a simple conversation. it's about having a conversation. it's time for us to sit down and have a conversation. sit down and have a conversation. let's sit down and have a conversation. you know, we've had conversations before. >> yes, yes, yes. well, the speaker was in his office listening on repeat, the president stepped out to visit the headquarters of fema, just one of the agencies that could be reopened if speaker boehner would give up his silly bluff. >> hold a vote oh. call a vote right now. and let's see what happens.

pass a budget and the government shutdown pay our bills and prevent an economic shutdown. and as soon as that happens, i am eager and ready to sit down and negotiate with republicans on a whole range of issues. >> unfortunately, as of moment, that vote has not been called and the public has noticed. a new "washington post" poll showing that disapproval of house gop handling of budget negotiations is now up to 70%. up seven points from last week. congratulations, mr. speaker. joining us now is dana milbank, a political columnist for "the washington post" and ryan grim for "the huffington post." good evening to both of you. dana, given that the speaker appears to be suffering from multip multiple personality disorder, one day doesn't want a debt ceiling fight, next day does, is the president's position the safer bet at this particular point in time? >> well, the speaker is having many conversations and some are

with himself, obviously, and within his own head. look, he can -- it's a debatable point whether there are enough -- there are more republicans who would support what's called the clean cr that the democrats are looking for. but there's no question that there are enough votes for it to pass through the house. that's why it hasn't been brought to a vote there. >> of course. >> there's the old -- there's the traditional thing called the hazard role, if the speaker doesn't have the majority in his own caucus, he won't bring it to the floor. it's arguable, i suspect, he may even have enough votes within his own caucus. but problem is, once he does that, he's going to have an insurrection on his hands with the tea party crowd. so it's really a conversation the speaker needs to have with his own conscience and with his own caucus. >> indeed, both. ryan, how does john boehner thread the needle of bringing legislation to a vote that can apiece his base, as dana just mentioned, as well as democrats in the house and senate?

>> well, another five or ten points on the disapproval side might help. once you -- >> they're already up to 70. how much higher do you need to go, ryan? 90? >> liberal and moderate republicans still are -- they're under water with him, but about 40 to 45% of them approve. if they lose all of those moderate republicans go down to 25, then they're left only with the tea party, and that could -- that could put a lot of pressure, and that pressure will come from wall street. so, you know, if you have a combination of these moderate republicans backed by wall street putting pressure on boehner, then he just caves and says, look, there was no other choice. >> right. dana, speaker boehner, to coin the words of the author, graham green, seems to possess a logical belief in a hopeless future. is he now literally switching his position on a daily basis, simply to ensure that the tea party caucus just doesn't throw him out as speaker? because there's no logical reason to what he does.

>> i think so. what it is, it depends on which audience he's speaking to. so quietly, he was saying to his caucus, look, we can't default. we just can't do this. word of that gets out, and then the speaker has to backtrack and say no, no, no, because he doesn't want to sacrifice his bargaining position. the problem, he doesn't have a whole lot of bargaining position here. i suppose the good news is the shutdown is now being combined with the debt default so at least we're moving on to get that issue addressed, as well. but problem is, if we can't address either of them now, then we have a double calamity occurring in ten days' time. >> yeah. do you think, dana, that we are going to head towards a double catastrophe? >> i have generally -- air on the side of expecting catastrophe and being surprised if i'm wrong. >> that's a very, very good position to take. ryan, without referring to him by name, the president appeared to make a little jab at mr. cruz this weekend. here in his interview with the

associated press. take a listen to this. >> i recognize that in today's media age, being controversial, taking controversial positions, you know, rallying the most extreme parts of your base, whether it's left or right, is a lot of times the fastest way to get attention or raise money. but it's not good for government. >> ryan, virginia's gop gubernatorial candidate, the kuch himself, reportedly did not want his picture taken with mr. cruz at the event where mr. cruz assured everyone of a win. is it possible that ted cruz is now as toxic in the constituencies as he is in the capitol building? >> well, especially in a statewide race in a place like virginia. i mean, you know, it's traditionally thought of as a pretty conservative state, but it's growing more purple. but more importantly, hundreds of thousands of people who work

for the federal government live in virginia. so -- and cuccinelli is directly connected to the movement against obama care. he was the state official who took it to the supreme court. so, you know, he's now trying to run for governor while people are literally out of work, thanks to the movement that -- that he seated. >> congratulations to mr. cuccinelli. dana milbank, of a newspaper described by justice scalia as shrill and nasty, and ryan grim of "the washington post," thank you both so much. >> thank you. coming up, mr. speaker, i thought you said the shutdown was not some damn game. did your members not get the message? >> does anybody remember charlie sheen when he was kind of going crazy last year? and he was going around jumping around saying -- >> the fact that you're seeing those attacks i think is indicative of the fact that we're winning the argument. ♪

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with the shutdown entering its second week and america poised to crash into its debt ceiling as early as next thursday, the president and the house speaker continue to argue about whether there is, in fact, a simple solution to the gridlock. >> there are enough republican and democratic votes in the house of representatives right now to end the shutdown. >> there are not the votes in the house to pass a clean cr. >> strangely enough, it was the senator giving both men trouble, mr. ted cruz, who appeared to be having a similar argument with himself. this time, about what

constitutes victory for the gop in this debate. reports over the weekend indicate mr. cruz told a crowd of conservatives in virginia that, yes, the gop can win this debate. a point he seemed to take away and take back on sunday morning. >> let me be clear. i didn't say republicans will win this. listen, i think career politicians in both parties have been part of the problem. what i said is the american people are going to win. >> come, come now, mr. cruz. don't be so modest. because i seem to remember a different, more confident senator cruz a few moments later when asked about the people opposed to his strategy. >> the fact that you're seeing those attacks, i think is addictive of the fact that we're winning the argument. >> now, that's more like it. joining us now is democratic congressman joe courtney of connecticut. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, martin. >> you heard the speaker boldly state this week -- this quote, and i read it to you -- there

are not the votes in the house to pass a clean cr. would you care to dispute the authority of that statement? >> absolutely. i think it's been the worst-kept secret in washington by the middle of last week. and, again, there's no, you know, wall of china separating the republicans and the democrats when we're on the floor or in the halls or even some of the committees that still are meeting. to know that many members actually were telling us that they were -- were ready to support a cr, and we now know there is a list of about 22 or 23 who have already come out publicly and said they would support a clean cr. but what's really amazing to me about the speaker's comment is that he talks as if he's sort of a helpless spectator of, you know, this issue. and the fact of the matter is that if he was really serious about trying to find a solution for the country, which clearly is desperate for that, he can actually sit down and organize some votes to get a clean cr

passed. so, you know, on every score in terms of whether or not the votes are there even without his intervention, or if he actually did get off the bleachers and get -- into the -- you know, the mix of trying to get votes lined up, the fact of the matter is, we could get this done today. and get this country back on track. >> congressman, here's the problem. disapproval of republicans, according to a new "washington post" poll on this issue of the budget now stands at 70%. i'm assuming that you have a large number of federal employees within your very own constituency who are suffering terribly as a result of this. and it begs the question, do republicans not really care about the impact of the shutdown? i mean, has it come to this, that they just don't give a damn? >> well, actually, i think if you looked at the map of republican districts around the country, the fact is, many of them represent districts with high levels of federal

employees. i mean, many represent military districts. again, that have large numbers of civilian dod employees like myself. i represent southeastern connecticut, which has the congratulaten navy base. >> yes. >> but there are many other military and nonmilitary federal installations in republican districts. so if you look at that list of 23, the fact is, there is a high correlation between those types of districts and those members who now are getting obviously pounded from their constituents about the need to get back to work and get some, you know, security about the fact that there's going to be a paycheck this month. a lot of these are federal employees who literally go from paycheck to paycheck. there's many -- almost low-level wages and middle-level wages where a mortgage payment really is -- turns on whether or not they actually get paid in regular order. so that explains, again, a lot of the numbers that are starting to emerge in the public. but the fact is, there is more

than 22 or 23 as peter king himself tweeted earlier today, that there would be closer to 50 or more at the end of the day if the speaker would just, again, listen to the country and allow us to get a vote and end this nonsense. >> congressman, final question. can you give these people some hope? can you tell us that this matter is going to be resolved in the next few days. >> well, again, what i would tell people is that the external pressure is important, and they should keep calling those members, some of whom -- again, have appeared in public, saying they would support it. the fact of the matter is, they've got to translate those public statements into actual votes. and that really still has not happened yet. again, that's how we got the fiscal cliff passed, was external pressure. that's how we got the -- external pressure, hurricane sandy, external pressure. really, that's the only strategy for getting this place to unlock. and having the speaker listen to

the whole house. >> absolutely disgraceful behavior from people who reportedly are supposed to be representing ordinary civilians of this nation. representative joe courtney, thank you, sir. >> thanks, martin. coming up, the supreme court is back as fists full of political donations hang in the balance and pete williams will join us next. ♪ when we send them off to school, we want them to be explorers - critical thinkers who can make connections and interpretations all their own. that's why nearly every state has chosen to adopt a set of consistent, game-changing standards that will better equip students for college and careers in the global economy. join the nea in supporting the common core state standards and their common-sense implementation. so no matter where they're from, every student will have the chance to succeed.

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after the 2010 citizens united supreme court decision, removed limits on political contributions from corporations and labor unions, as long as the spending is independent from the candidates, wink-wink, some were left wondering how many fewer limits there could possibly be on political contributions. and soon we may find out. tomorrow the supreme court will begin hearing oral arguments in

mccutchen versus federal election in a case that will determine the overall limits on what an individual can give to candidates, political parties, and political action committees in a two-year election cycle. which means more money in politics. just what we all need. for more now, i'm joined by nbc justice correspondent, pete williams. pete, the actual amount you can give to a candidate is not being challenged here. but rather the aggregate limit that you can give to all candidates or all political parties or committees. is that right? >> precisely right. there is a limit of $2600. that's how much any individual person can give any individual candidate in an election. that's not being challenged. but there is what are called aggregate limits. and you've put up all the known numbers in the universe. but the bottom line number is the one to look at. the two at the bottom. this is the aggregate limit. $48,600 that any individual person can give to all federal candidates. this is all federal candidates,

remember. and a separate limit of about $75,000 to all -- not just pacs but political parties and committees that support candidates, the fund for a better america, that sort of thing. >> these limits were placed following the scandals post watergate, correct? >> well, the dollar amounts have changed. but what the congress said is, we have to have these limits. or people will use devious ways to get around the individual limit, and they'll figure out ways to funnel their money to individual candidates through sort of cutouts. what the challengers argue is that the law has been changed so much since congress initially gave these al got limits their place in the law, they're no longer needed and, in fact, are unconstitutional. the thing you have to think about when you think about campaign finance cases is that the supreme court considers money to be speech. and it says you can't limit at all how much a person can spend,

that is to say if martin bashir wants to give all the money he wants to the sierra club or whatever, he can do that to support issues. that can't be limited. but the supreme court has upheld contribution limits on the idea they help curb corruption. so that's the question here. do those aggregate limits help. now, the weakness for the government here is it's pretty hard to come up with a good constitutional reason why it's okay to give the full amount to nine candidates, but it's not okay to give the full amendment to ten candidates. and that's going to be the challenge for the obama administration for the lawyers, for the federal election commission who are going to defend this law in the supreme court tomorrow. the reason that this is such a closely watched case is exactly the way you put it at the beginning. any time the supreme court comes near this, will they do what many people, including senator mitch mcconnell hope they will do tomorrow, which is to eliminate the distinction and take away the limit on contributions all together. that doesn't seem likely, but the question is, will they take

a step in that direction. >> nbc's pete williams. thanks, pete. we look forward to your reporting on this tomorrow with us. thank you, sir. >> yes, sir, you bet. >> stay with us. the winners and losers of today's top lines are coming up. and you don't want to miss it. loser! john boehner. i feel sorry for you, buddy. it's exhausting watching you try to maintain your dignity while rangeling those tea party main action. you're like seinfeld if there were 30 cramers. winner, canada! senator ted cruz was born in canada. so while we were worried about iran, china and north korea, canadian shut down the u.s. government. well-played, canada. ♪ ♪ nowhere to run to baby ♪ nowhere to hide ♪ got nowhere to run to baby not double-talk. if you have the nerve to believe that in a puzzling financial world, clarity is king.

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to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. from our very first default to your very last nerve, here are today's top lines. thanks for the conversation.

in washington, the united states is edging closer to the possibility of the first-ever default on the government's debts. >> the bottom line on this whole shutdown deal is -- >> federal government, still shut down. >> it does not seem like this is coming to an end any time soon. >> okay. it's now week two of the shutdown. >> judging by the weekend's comments -- >> i told the president -- >> we would be looking at week three very easily. >> it's been a long shutdown already. >> speaker john boehner has ruled out a house vote on a bill to boost the borrowing authority. >> really? why? how? >> how is this going to end? >> how does it end? >> you're clearly not budgeting right now, even the whole show that most americans blame republicans. >> a new fox news poll shows disapproval of the republican party has jumped to 59%. >> republicans own this shutdown. >> and that's a fox news poll. >> how long is it going to go on? >> that's like the real news saying it's 3,000%. >> the debt limit is right around the corner. >> both sides warning, if the other doesn't cry uncle -- >> say uncle!

>> stop! >> the nation could be headed for its first-ever default. >> uncle! >> uncle! >> the president saying i won't have a conversation. >> we asked to sit down and have a conversation. it's about having a conversation. >> what's up, i'm pay pay phone. if it you're there, pick up, pick up, pick up, pick up. >> he knows what my phone number is. >> we're having ourselves quite a little game of phone tag here. >> george, i'm ready for the phone call. >> i just want to hang out. no big deal! >> i'm ready for a conversation. >> let's get right to our panel. joining us is msnbc contributor, goldie taylor. the "atlantic's" molly ball and jonathan capehart of "the washington post." welcome to all of you. go goldie, this crisis, there could be an up or down vote and end today. the president has advised him to do so. why doesn't he do it? >> because, frankly, his

position is at risk. if he puts the -- a continuing resolution on the floor of the house, it's going to be sheer pandemonium and you're going to find speaker boehner as just another member of the house. and i think that's really the crux of the matter. then too, you could see a deep position of the tea party if this happens. all of the political power in capital they have amassed over these brief years they have been in existence as a very populus party would be really gone by the wayside, if he were to put this up for a vote. and that would really splinter the party in ways we cannot number or name today. >> so jonathan, given what goldie has just said, john boehner seems willing to sacrifice the jobs of hundreds of thousands of americans, all for the sake of saving, what, his own? i mean, his own -- how much longer does he get to stay in this position? >> well, what's today? october 7th? >> yes. >> maybe ten more days. i wrote last week that, you know, speaker boehner has to choose. between his caucus and our

country. and back then i was hoping that maybe, just maybe, we would avert a government shutdown and not come anywhere close to the october 17th deadline for when the united states officially bumps up against the debt ceiling and doesn't have enough money to pay its bills. but after yesterday's performance on this week with george stephanopoulos, i'm not so sure if he's going to choose his country over his caucus. clearly, as we all know from the whip counts that we're doing here at the "washington post," that "first read" has done, the votes are there for a clean cr. and the votes are also probably there on the senate side for a clean debt ceiling increase bill. so at least in the house where a clean cr could get passed, the only person standing in the way of that happening is speaker boehner. >> and to that point, molly, listen to what jonathan chate writes in "new york" magazine. to weaponize the debt ceiling, you must be willing to inflict

harm on millions of innocent people. it is only useful for the most idea logically hardened or border line sociopathic. now, molly, is john boehner so feckless and imfeebled he can't even resist borderline sociopathic tendency's within his own party which will then wreak such damage on the nation? >> i think the charitable explanation -- >> give us the accurate one. not the charitable one, molly. >> i think i would have to be a mind reader to tell you accurately what is going on. >> i know you're not a psychiatrist. but i've just described the borderline sociopathic nature of these people. tell us. >> the more charitable view might be that boehner is trying to save -- to save whatever political capital he has within his caucus for the debt ceiling, because he believes that that would be far more catastrophic for the country and for the economy as a whole. that if he has to choose one or the other, if -- if the members of his caucus will only let him

surrender in their view on one of those things, he's got to make that the debt ceiling rather than the shutdown. that being said, that makes this whole thing very uncertain. it's not clear that boehner has a strategy as the charitable view would suggest, or that he has control of any significant part of his caucus. >> molly, while you separate those two issues, he seems to be conflating them. in the way he's managing this issue. >> yes. he has -- well, he has said all along he wants to negotiate in his words the whole thing at once, and the closer the two deadlines come or the closer the debt ceiling deadline comes with the government still shut down, the more plausible it seems we resolve both things at once. >> goldie, since speaker boehner has had such a miserable time -- i mean, people talk about him, people who know him, say that he is a man who likes to do deals. he wants to serve the nation. he has been at war with this lunatic fringe of his party. they're about to force the country to crash against the debt ceiling. why doesn't he just give up the

job? why doesn't he just step down honorably and say, i cannot stand working for these people anymore, because their intention is not good for this nation? >> you know, i don't know speaker boehner. and i'm not inclined to take the charitable or less charitable view. but every piece of evidence that we have seen runs contrary to that. he is, in fact, very willing to put his party, his job, his everything else before the american people. as we speak today, hundreds of thousands of american workers, not just federal workers, but american workers, are at home, out of work, without a paycheck. and no matter if this government voted to give them their back pay, it's going to cause them irreparable harm of not having a paycheck in the house today. and so he's willing to do that. but something else is curious to me. we keep hearing republicans over these recent days, rand paul and some of the others, saying, oh, breaching the debt ceiling won't be quite so bad. we can simply prioritize our debt. you know, some of that is true. but breaching the debt ceiling

will, in fact, impact not just millions of people, but billions of people, because it will cause a global cascading of events that we simply cannot foresee and predict all of them. what we do know is that it will mean calamity in the markets. it could mean a freezing of the central line of funds that get transferred overnight in this country. and so i just think that we have to kind of take a step back and reexamine who we're talking about here. speaker boehner has not shown himself to have the political courage to step out and put a clean cr on the table. and so i'm not sure that he's willing to put his party before his country when he's just so -- put his country before his party when he's shown otherwise. >> you speak truth, goldie. marty ball and jonathan capehart, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. coming up, new details about the dueling raids in libya and somalia as the president flexes american muscle on terror targets abroad. stay with us. up in alaska, we find the best, sweetest crab for red lobster

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[ male announcer ] go to redlobster.com now to get free crab-stuffed mushrooms with two dinner entrées. he had a $5 million bounty on his head. he was one of the master minds behind attacks on embassies in kenya and tanzania 15 years ago that killed more than 220 people. and in libya over the weekend, u.s. commandos forcibly removed abu anas al libi from a car in tripoli and took the suspended al qaeda operative into custody. he's now being held on the "uss san antonio" out in the mediterranean sea. the capture followed an earlier raid in somalia where navy s.e.a.l.s went in pursuit of a man known as as ecreama. due to heavy return fire, s.e.a.l. team 6 made the decision to withdraw from the raid, unable to confirm that their target had, in fact, been killed. and while the domestic

government of the united states may be shut down, the secretary of state had a single message for the enemies of this nation. >> the united states of america will never stop in its effort to hold those accountable who conduct acts of terror, and those members of al qaeda and other terrorist organizations literally can run but they can't hide. >> for more now, we're joined by michael o'hanlon of the brookings institution. hi, mike. >> hi, martin. >> from the perspective of american forces, this is obviously a much more risky approach than, say, using drone strikes against terror suspects. but isn't this also a far more effective approach from the point of view of gathering intelligence? >> i think that's exactly right. and even though we have been talking mostly about drones these last few months, let's not forget, we have a lot of troops on the ground in afghanistan who have been doing raids like this and continue to do rates like this. and we continue to risk their lives. and as you know, we tragically

just lost four americans over the weekend in afghanistan. in other words, i don't think we've reached some point where the nation will not or cannot risk casualties. and for all the reasons you just mentioned, it's often quite preferable to approach things the way we did over the weekend in libya and in somalia. for one thing, you can also perhaps be a little more confident that you're not hurting innocent people, depending on the exact circumstances where the fight might occur. >> is it your view, mike, that al libi is likely to give us any important useful information? >> there is a decent chance, martin, because, you know, he's been plugged in pretty well as far as we know. at various times in the past. now, it's also possible that he just sort of went to ground and hasn't really been leading a very active life in the terrorism department. i don't know for a fact. but i think it's good that we not just get all in one direction or another, use just one tool in our tool kit. people have been saying for

quite some time it's regrettable just because guantanamo bay is sort of no longer a good place to put prisoners that therefore we seem to prefer to kill suspects instead of arresting them. i think that's an oversimplification of the logic. a lot of the reason we kill people in pakistan, for example, we have no choice of doing these raids on pakistani soil so we have no other means available besides drones. but in general, you want to be able to carry this kind of a raid out, even if you're not sure of the intelligence value of the person you may arrest. >> now, the capture of al libi is obviously something of a break through, particularly given his involvement in those horrific attacks, alleged involvement, back in 1998. but do we now find ourselves in difficulties with the libyan government, since their preference, presumably, would be to try al libi on their own soil? >> well, you know, i think we have committed a big mistake in regard to libya. but it's not that one. it's because they don't really have courts. they don't really have a

functioning state. we have not helped them get on their feet. we did a very minimalist intervention in 2011 and then essentially left them to their own with best wishes, if that. and so we have had these big debates in the united states about benghazi. we had this recent raid and now a big debate with the libyan government. but i think it's all sort of about the wrong question. the right question is what can we do, even at this point, to try to help the libyan government develop its courts, develop its army, develop its economy. right now their oil production is very, very low. the state is probablyctiose is very, very low. the state is probably worse off than it was under gadhafi. and i think we probably owe them a little better than that. >> michael o'hanlon of the brookings institution. thank you, mike. >> thank you, martin. coming up, a democratic governor from a red state joins us to talk about the benefits of the affordable care act. but first, we can't stop, and we won't stop. ♪ even for health care

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we are now one full week into government shutdown, and on the seventh day republicans are sticking to the script that it's the president's support of his own health care law that is actually causing the shutdown. >> we think obama care is a bad idea and will hurt the people it was intended to help. but when that didn't pass, when

the democrats didn't accept that, we said, well, what about a one-year delay? they're the ones who are unwilling to compromise on any facet of obama care. and i think thattin intransigence has led to the shut down of the government. >> as proudly as he wears his devil may care that much of tussled hair. he might want to take heed of his own governor who has advice for senators paul and mcconnell in the "new york times." quote, the affordable care act is the law of the land, get over it. and get out of the way so i can help my people. here in kentucky, we cannot afford to waste another day or another life. steve bashir is the democratic governor of kentucky, and i'm delighted to say he joins us here in new york. thank you, sir, for coming in. you just heard senator rand paul there saying the affordable care act is going to hurt the people,

mitch mcconnell virtually every day on the senate floor says it's a train wreck. is it a disaster for your people? >> martin, they keep weaving this web of misinformation and deception. and they just need to face the facts. they said just the other day that nobody in kentucky wants the affordable care act. well, there was 138,000 people from kentucky in the first 72 hours, our website was up after october 1 that swarmed all over that website, and all over our hotline, wanting to get the information and wanting to get health care insurance. as of this morning, we had, i believe, 174,000 people. 200 businesses. you know, this thing is going like wildfire. >> but these guys are telling us every day that it's a train wreck and nobody wants it. >> that's exactly what they -- they're trying to do, is to make sure it doesn't work. because they know that about a year from now, they're going to have egg all over their face. because this thing is going to work. it worked in massachusetts when then governor romney put it in. as their plan up there.

and it's going to work in kentucky. it will work all over this country. >> okay. well, these senators would say that they're the people who represent those individuals in the great state of kentucky. so take a listen to senator paul again from sunday. take a listen to this. >> you know, 61% of the people in kentucky voted for romney. 70% of people in kentucky don't like obama care. so the thing is, i'm supposed to go and fight to make bills either less bad or make them better. >> he says 70% of the people don't want it. >> it's amazing that there's -- that many thousands of people who are trying to get it right now. >> is he not telling the truth there? he's just lying? >> well, they run these polls and put the name obama care on it, and, you know, if you put afrdorm of your. >> exactly. >> your exchange system. >> we've got 640,000 uninsured kentuckians and a historic opportunity to change our state for the next generation. and by golly, i'm going to do it. >> you know, the other interesting thing about the state you represent is that you

score so poorly on the average health indices. but when you hear these individuals talk, they say the affordable care act is a waste of time, a train wreck, going to destroy jobs and so on. but they have no plan whatsoever to address the needs of people that you're trying to help, basically. >> that's exactly right. you know, we've got some of the worst health statistics in the country. it's been that way ever since they started keeping statistics. and, yes, we've made some improvements. but we need a big tool to make transformational change. the affordable care act is not perfect. i'm sure we could come up with two or three different changes in it. but the fact is, it's the law of the land, it's a tool that i can use to change this state for the good, for the next generation. >> and the health of individuals. just one other thing. we keep hearing again from senator rand paul and multiple republicans that it's going to destroy jobs. and yet there was a pricewaterhousecoopers and urban studies institute study that

suggested that far from destroying jobs, it's going to create jobs. tell us, how did that come about? >> that's exactly right. i made the decision as the only southern state to both expand the medicaid program and to have our own health benefits exchange. number one, it was easy to make the decision, should you do it, from a moral standpoint. yes, you should do it, so that our teacher -- our people can have health insurance. but as a governor, i've got a fiscal responsibility to make sure we can afford to do it. so i asked pricewaterhousecoopers and the urban institute at u of l to study this. they came back in six months and said, governor, you cannot afford not to do this. it will create 17,000 new jobs, $15 billion into your economy over the next eight years. a positive $800 million impact on your budget. i mean, come on. what else -- what else do you need? >> extraordinary. governor steve bashir, thank you, sir, for coming into new york and joining us. and we'll be right back in a moment.

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it matters. ♪ time now to clear the air. and for a man who doesn't know if he's leading his caucus or being led by ted cruz, it's easy to see why the house speaker is now all over the place when it comes to his public pronouncements. one minute, he says he won't allow the nation to default because he knows that it would be catastrophic for the economy. the next minute, he says this. >> every president in modern history has negotiated over a debt limit. debt limits have been used to force big policy changes in washington. >> his ability to speak out of both sides of his mouth would be a clever parlour game if it

wasn't so serious. one minute, he says the only thing that matters is the economy. the next minute, he says the only thing that matters is insuring that 30 million uninsured americans are prevented from getting access to affordable care. one minute, he says he doesn't want a government shutdown, because he and his fellow republicans do not think that this gridlock is a game. and the next minute, one of his most outspoken colleagues says this. >> this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. because we see that we're starting to win this dialogue on a national level. >> and so with such entrenched confusion matched only by his utterly incompetent leadership, the house speaker is taking the nation down a road that every economist believes will end in economic disaster. and as he does so, he seems to personify a form of despotism as described in this great passage from the toetville's great work

on democracy in america. as for the rest of his fellow citizens, he is close to them, but he sees them not. he touches them, but he feels them not. he exists, but in himself and for himself alone. and if his kendrid still remain, he might have lost his country. and if he has lost his country, isn't it time he lost the speakership too? thank you so much for watching on this monday afternoon. and a reminder that our education nation summit is in full swing right now for the next two days, attendees will participate in more than a dozen sessions, exploring what it takes to achieve student success. you can watch live at educationnation.com. and join the discussion by using the hash tags educationnation and whatittakes.

coming up next for us here and now it's ed with "the ed show." ♪ i gotcha ♪ uh-huh ♪ you thought i didn't see you now didn't you ♪ ♪ uh-huh huh good evening, americans and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. we're not shut down and we're not going to default. let's get to work. ♪ imagine me and you i do ♪ ♪ i think about you day and night ♪ >> he knows what my phone number is. all he has to do is call. i get emotional. >> we're not going to negotiate under the threat of economic catastrophe that economists and ceos increasingly warn would result if congress chose to default. >> i'm a reasonable guy. i'm a reasonable guy. >> don't tell me democrats, that john boehner is a nice guy. because nice guys don't do this. >> the press is risking default by not having a conversation. >> 24 hours a day, i live with this aching possibility