senators have now gone on record to say defaulting on the debt wouldn't be that big of a deal. october 17th, that's the day that's front and center in this game of congressional chicken. so far no one is blinking, but a lot of finger pointing going all around. >> we're arriving at a point in a few days, we're not going to pay our bills. this is america. we're not asking the speaker to do something that's unreasonable. >> i want to have a conversation. i'm not drawing any lines in the sand. it's time for us to just sit down and resolve our differences. >> i heard a lot of talk over the weekend that the real problem is, is that the president will not negotiate. well, let me tell you something. i have said from the start of the year that i'm happy to talk to republicans about anything related to the budget. >> speaking of blame, new polls show no one is smelling like roses, but a lot of blame is being heaped on the gop. here are the numbers from cnn

and orc. 63% blaming republicans, 57% democrats and 53% obama. check out "the washington post" and abc news poll, 70% put the fault with republicans, 61% with democrats. >> there's an old proverb that says beware of the man with nothing to lose. these house republicans have nothing to lose. they're very popular in their own district. if i saw 51% of americans were angry at bill clinton back in 1995, i'd turn to my friends and i'd go step on it, boys. >> democratic congressman from connecticut, jim himes, joins me now. sir, it's great to have you here. it was just a few minutes ago that roll call now reporting house republicans want to propose a new super committee to resolve the budget impasse, similar to the one created in 2011. do you feel that's completely necessary or is that just a stall tack tatic in an already

elevated game of stall tactics. >> first thing is to restart the government and stop this nightmare developing for all too many people. by the way, let's stop screwing around with the debt ceiling. i heard people saying the debt ceiling breach won't be that bad. it will be a catastrophe. so let's take that off the table. and then by all means, let's do it. look, there are any number of democrats and republicans here who are willing to do what the president said he would do, talk about entitlement reform, talk about making those programs long term viable, just we'll have a negotiation. but we're not going to do it with a gun to our head. people understand that john boehner at the last minute saying we'd like to negotiate is just not a credible offer. >> as you say, let's not screw around with the debt ceiling. as we approach that date, that deadline of october 17th, the white house has given the signal that it would be open to raising the debt limit in the short term deal. that shift is raising concerns privately among democrats that the white house seemed to be softening its iron-clad passion.

does that sound like the president is giving in where he said that he wouldn't? it's the phrasing of this being short term. >> you've got to remember the date is not october 17th, right? the date of catastrophe is whenever the financial markets decide that this time congress has lost its mind and is not going to honor its obligations for the first time in its history. set aside october 17th. it could happen tomorrow, three days from now, nobody really knows. look, if the president proposed a plan where for a four or six-week period we set aside the shutdown and this gamesmanship with the full faith and credit of the united states and in favor of negotiating, you know, a better deal, you know, get rid of the sequester, put our country on a long-term sustainable fiscal path, i know i would sign up for that. first things first, which is that we cannot hold the full faith and credit of this country hostage to a repeal of obama care, to a repeal of whatever it is that the tea party republicans are demanding today. >> so forgive me for this, but

for so many americans and people that are watching this, unless they're following the minute by minute machinations of how all this process is folding out, a lot of people should be and would be confused to see how the debt ceiling fight and the shutdown are almost inseparable now. harry reid has said that himself. so the house has now passed nine mini funding bills to fund portions of the government. there's seven more piecemeal bills on deck. that's for the shutdown. when it comes to the debt ceiling, do you think the republicans, the colleagues that you have are in denial about the impact of u.s. default? if we can just show the markets where they are today, the dow jones down by 72 points, red arrows across the board. do you think they're in denial about the implications of it? >> i think most of my colleagues, i'm a little bit of an exception in that i spent 12 years working in the capital markets. most of my colleagues tend to think about a debt ceiling the way they think about fiscal cliff or the way they think about a government shutdown,

which is the government shuts down the next day. in both of those cases, congress has total control. they can stop a fiscal cliff, they can stop a government shutdown. we can stop a government shutdown today if speaker boehner would bring a clean cr to the floor. that is not the case with the full faith and credit involved in the debt ceiling. when the markets decide that this place has finally and completely flipped its lid and we see a 3,000 point market drop, there is nothing we can due in this institution that will recapture the business confidence in this country that we need for the recovery to proceed. so, no, i am not confident that my colleague any idea what will happen if we continue to screw around on the debt ceiling. >> vice president joe biden is commonly known as the deal maker. the article goes on to say biden's deals rub democrats raw, he gave up too much they said and for that they have frozen him out. do you think that biden is frozen out right now? and if so, is that a smart thing for the vice president to be sitting on the sidelines? >> you know, i don't know if biden is frozen out right now.

i think right now the president is taking a very reasonable position, which is that you don't get to come to me with a list of demands. if i don't acknowledge these demands or abide by these demands, you are going to destroy the full faith and credit of the united states government. by the way, my republican colleagues should think about the fact that they don't want me doing that to a republican president down the road. this is just something that should be off the table. when time comes, and hopefully it comes soon on the other side of this crisis, to continue the good work of getting our country on a long-term sustainable fiscal path, one thing i know for sure is that nobody is going to like that deal. i was one of the voters for the simpson-bowles budget. nobody liked anything about that. so you know success will come in the final negotiations when pretty much everybody is grumpy about the final deal. >> congressman jim himes, great to have you on. we really appreciate your time. >> thank you, thomas. we mentioned that 11th hour deal between biden and mcconnell in august of 2011. but even with the deal to avoid default, there was still fallout. take a look. >> standard & poor's credit

rating agency tonight has downgraded america's aaa credit rating for the first time in u.s. history. >> downgraded, the u.s. loses its perfect credit rating for the first time in history. >> s&p said last night the political brinksmanship highlights what we see as america's governance and policy making becoming less stable, less effective and less predictable. >> here's the damage from today. the dow down over 634 points. that's the sixth largest point drop in its history, the worst since '08. nasdaq lost just about 7% of its total value. s&p 500 lost 6.6% of its value in one day. it's a bigger systemic problem with no real end in sight. >> all right. so that was 2011. joining me now, ezra klein, msnbc policy analyst. ezra, good to have you here. >> good to be here. >> we're all living through this once again and we're freshly getting our brains up to speed on how to understand all of

this. what actually happens come the 17th and october 18th? does the government basically run out of money? and what happens if that date is reached with no deal? are we just completely broke? >> yeah. being broke isn't the way to think about it because we are not broke. we can create money. the federal reserve can just create money. what we stop being able to do is have the legal statutory authority to use the money we can create or the money we can borrow in particular to pay our bills. it's really important to recognize what representative himes was saying earlier. it's not like a fiscal cliff or a shutdown or something we control. what you're talking about at that point is that, number one, america is doing something that it's never done before. we are going to go into some kind of default, whether or not it's an organized default or chaotic default, we have hit a governing -- a moment of governing gridlock nobody expected us to ever hit and we are now doing something the markets have never expected. so when we hit that point, what everybody in the markets has to do is figure out, okay, how much

do we think we need to add to the price of every government bond the u.s. government puts out to account for this new risk in the political system. and when they have to make that repricing decision, all of a sudden forever all of our -- all of our bond purchasing becomes more expensive. all of our borrowing becomes more expensive. this is assuming we get things under control. if we don't get things under control then you're dealing with a chaotic financial crisis like what happened after laehman fel so you're dealing either with a huge crisis or at the very least a huge, huge, huge long-term increase in not just what it kpaufts us to borrow but because of that what our deficits actually are. >> but why are we so apt to elect people willing to take us to the brink? because we put all of these people into these elected positions. but i'm just so confused by why we would allow our elected

leaders to get away with this. why we would allow them to drag us along for this hay ride that is really unenjoyable and ridiculous. >> i think if you look at the polls, people are unhappy about it. one thing that's worth remembering, you and me, thomas, are very strange people. we are sitting here following every twist and turn of this, but most people just are not. they're not paying that much attention. and so in the past what we have done is we have not actually defaulted on the debt. we have not actually been shutting down the government, at least until now. an that's very important because while it is the fact that folks are electing folks who end up taking people to the brink, you know, when you back up, it ends up being like a lot of washington mishigos and people tune it out. if they take us over the brink, i don't think we have any idea what the american people will do or what the next election will look like. sam wang, a statistician was

writing about it today. there's some evidence that the polls for congress are shifting radically towards the democrats. i expect that would fade over time. if they actually breach the debt ceiling, i don't think anyone knows the devastation that could have to the republican party. so the families of five troops killed over the fwweeken in afghanistan will not be getting death benefits because of the government shutdown. andrea mitchell exclusively breaking this report. death benefits are usually paid within 36 hours to help pay for funerals and the flights for loved ones to meet the cousins. andrea will have more at 1:00 p.m. eastern. here's another reason to be outraged by the government shutdown. a young mom battling cancer who says because of congress, she can't get the treatment she needs to fight for her life. she's going to join me coming up to talk about her personal story in just a few minutes. and just how worried is wall street over washington's dance on the debt ceiling?

coming up next, i'll speak with former labor secretary robert reich and we want to know how is the shutdown impacting you. weigh in with the #don'tshutmedown. from your first breath, to your first roll, pampers swaddlers was there. and now swaddlers are available through size 5, for many more firsts to come. ♪ pampers.

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developing now, the u.s. supreme court has just finished hearing oral arguments in a critical challenge to campaign contributions. the plaintiff, a republican donor, wants to end the cap on the amount of money an individual can contribute during a two-year political campaign cycle. nbc justice correspondent pete williams was in court during those arguments. so, pete, fill us in. how'd they go? >> reporter: well, i would say that the issue here, the limited issue is a dead letter now. the question is not how much an individual person can give to a candidate. that's not challenged. that's $2600 per election for

federal candidates, members of the house, members of the senate, presidential candidates. the issue that's being challenged here is there's another limit people haven't heard of. the total amount that you can give to all candidates put together in any two-year period or all political parties and pacs and other organizations. that's what's being challenged here and i would say after listening to the argument today, there are five votes on the supreme court to strike that down as unfair. however, the big question here was, was the supreme court willing to take the other step that it hasn't been willing to take since 1976 and drop all limits whatsoever on any contributions at all. and it didn't seem that the court was willing to go that far. as a matter of fact, i would say that the controlling vote here may be the chief justice's, who seemed to be trying to find a way to just strike down the so-called aggregate limit on how much a person can give to all candidates put together. he said it doesn't make sense to

him to say that you can give $2600 to nine people but you can't give $2600 to ten people because that would be over the limit. he said that didn't seem to make sense, thomas. >> pete williams outside of the supreme court there on day one. pete, thanks so much. appreciate it, sir. china is speaking out public low for the first time over the fiscal fiasco going on right now in capitol hill with a warning for the u.s. china says it's concerned the u.s. will default on the debt, adding that it's the united states' responsibility to resolve the matter. now, on the "today" show this morning, cnbc's jim cramer said a default would have global ramifications. >> it would be a calamity because almost everything in the world is priced off of treasuries. this is the most important single piece of paper in the world, and no one knows what will happen. >> joining me now is robert reich, former labor secretary under president clinton and a professor at uc berkeley. he is the star of the new film "inequality for all." it's great to have you on.

let's dig into what you know about the fact that you were there during the '95-96 shutdown so when it comes to the debt ceiling, bl bloomberg news has u.s. default seen as catastrophe dwarfinglehman's fall. a worldwide economic catastrophe because markets depend upon the treasury bill. markets depend upon the full faith and credit of the united states. this is a building block for the global economy. if we don't actually pay our bills. as the leading economy, the biggest economy in the world, the entire global economy suffers as a result. >> all right. it's odd now how some of the messaging is getting out there, because we have republicans who appear to be downplaying the effects of default. again, this is all money that was approved by congress to be

paid off eventually. let's listen to congressman joe barton on cnbc yesterday. >> this talk about default by the u.s. treasury is nonsense. the president can be smart or the president can be stupid. and i would assume as smart as president obama is, when push comes to shove, he'll be smart. so we are not going to default on the public debt. but that doesn't mean that we have to pay every bill the day it comes in 100 cents on the dollar. >> so how does that logic make sense about being slow pay to no pay? >> that makes no sense at all. look, we have on october 31st and on november 15th, we have very specific bill that say we've got to pay to our creditors. not only global creditors but also everybody in the united states that has a treasury bill. if those bills are not paid, then immediately -- in fact even before they're not paid, if there's a good chance that they're not going to be paid, immediately the interest rates spike on those things. and if we don't pay those -- you know, one thing the republicans

are not saying, thomas, is, well, we can pay the interest on those debts and then we just defer everything else that we owe, like social security payments. that means that millions of social security recipients would not get their checks. can you imagine what that would do not only to them but to the economy? how can republicans with a straight face make these kinds of arguments? that is the height of irresponsibility. >> and with good conscience knowing all of the risks that comes along with this. even if we're having this discussion, we went through this in 2011 and coincided with the credit rating getting downgraded. that's so fresh it's hard to even think that people cannot remember just back to 2011. so why in the world would they want to flirt with it now? >> well, i think that 2011 actually is a case in point for not only the problems that come, that is we were downgraded, that cost the united states a lot of money. but also financial markets and the republicans assume that

before we actually got to a default, just like in 2011, somebody would blink. the president would agree to something. now, i think the president learned in 2011 that you cannot negotiate with extortionists. you cannot begin to say that the full faith and credit of the united states is on the line because once you do that, then the expectation is from those same extortionists that you're going to do it the next time and their demands get larger and larger. so the president has decided, and i'm sure he has decided that he cannot do this ever again. >> robert reich, great to have you on, sir. thanks for your time. >> thanks, thomas. manhattan road ranl. new revelations with an undercover police officers role in that incident involving a biker gang here in new york city. we're also learning more about a 9-year-old boy who managed to slip through airport security boarding a flight to vegas. turns out he is a practically pint-sized houdini.

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while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, or if you develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. it feels wonderful. i don't smoke. i don't smoke. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. i don't smoke. rep. rokita: obamacare hurts this country much more than any government shutdown. vo: reckless. rep. blackburn: people are probably going to realize... they can live with a lot less government. vo: destructive. rep. bachmann: this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. vo: the government shutdown is hurting veterans, seniors, and our kids. now tea party republicans are threatening...

an economic shutdown. refusing to pay our nation's bills. endangering american jobs. tell them to stand up to the tea party. enough already! breaking news to fill you in on. it was less than an hour ago that john boehner had asked to have a conversation with the president to talk about where they stood on the issues, willing negotiations about the government shutdown and raising the debt ceiling. minutes later, around 10:45, we're hearing now from the spokesperson to house speaker john boehner, the president called the speaker today, reiterating that the president called to say that he won't negotiate on government funding bills or debt increases. so john boehner asked for a conversation. he got a call less than an hour ago saying that the president reiterating his stance that he will not negotiate over a government funding bill or debt limit increase.

so a mini conversation was had. here's a look at some of the stories. a marines task force is on high alert after the weekend raid at libya. 100 marines are in place at naval air station in southern italy, another 200 on the way. teenage pakistani activist malala yousefi who survived after a gunshot wound to the head is once again getting death threats from the militant group. she is out with a new book nearly one year since she was shot at the age of 15 for simply trying to make sure that all young girls can get an education. >> we know that the terrorists were afraid of the power of education, that's why they stopped us from going to school. so we realized its importance when we were stopped. i don't want these girls to realize it in the same way we did and i'm trying and want to tell the students that this is a big chance and this is a great opportunity for you to go to school. >> malala is a candidate for the

nobel peace prize. the winner will be announced on friday. the 9-year-old boy who snuck past airport security on a delta flight from minneapolis to las vegas reportedly had a pattern of trouble behavior that includes car theft, sneaking into a water park and contact with child protection investigators. we're also learning his mom is an employee of minneapolis/st. paul international airport where the boy boarded the plane. parents of a florida sixth grader are outraged after she was sent home from school with a letter from the collier county health department saying that she was overweight. her mom was on the "today" show this morning. >> don't send a letter home with the kids. how hard is it to put these letters in the mail? this letter can do no good. if a kid is overweight, they know they're overweight. >> a spokeswoman for the health department said the screenings are just meant to alert patients to potential health problems. and she's bringing sexy back. seven years after "esquire" named scarlett johansson the

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welcome back, everybody. we are following that breaking news coming out of d.c. right now. house speaker john boehner's office saying that president obama called the speaker this morning just before 11:00 a.m. boehner's office saying the president reiterated that he won't negotiate on a government funding bill or debt ceiling increase. joining me now is republican congressman luke messer of indiana. sir, it's good to have you with us. what's your reaction to that, that speaker boehner asked to have that conversation, that was roughly around 10:30, 10:35. by 10:45 his office is getting a ring from the president saying

we're not going to negotiate on that. >> yeah, i think that's inconsistent with what the american people want. house republicans have been saying for day that say we recognize there's disagreements and we need to come to the negotiating table. the president has said that he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling and he won't negotiate on the budget until he gets his way. frankly, i think that the american people are starting to understand why we're in a shutdown. >> but isn't that more an answer of what part of republicans and the answer of no is not being understood here? because there is a negotiated budget at sequester level spending. the problem is that there's a hitch with obama care being linked in to the shutdown conversation. that gets taken out and a clean cr goes to the floor, everybody, all the people i've talked to, they say that would pass. >> well, remember, that the house has voted for nine bills in recent days that would fund everything from food stamps to our national parks to our

national guard. and most of those bills -- every one of those bills has passed with support of dozens of my democratic colleagues. >> but do we run the government on appropriations bills? in a shutdown mode, should we run the government on appropriation bills? >> i think what our position is we know where we disagree. let's fund the areas where we agree. and that -- by the time we're done tonight, we will have funded over half of the government. the president continues to say that he won't even negotiate. frankly, i think it's not ringing well with the american people. >> well, i think the american people would disagree with that statement because there's a new washington post/abc poll showing that when it comes to the budget negotiations, 70% kidisapprove the way republicans are handling things, 61% say democrats, 51 say president obama. but, sir, the largest number is 70% of americans find republicans at fault for this breakdown. and for our shutdown. and the reason why we're in shutdown mode now barreling down

the line at a debt ceiling debalk sglucl debacle. >> what i take is over half of america understands that all parties are in fault. when we're in a shutdown, government isn't working the way that it's supposed to, we need to come to the table and we need to negotiate. frankly, the president needs to lead. it's not leadership to call the speaker and say once again he won't meet. he's called press conferences to say he won't speak. he even called the speaker to the white house to tell him that he won't meet, he won't speak. >> isn't that leading and getting an obstinate crowd not following? the president has said this is what my leadership role is. this is how i was elected back into office in 2012, a mandate of the people, something that has passed both houses of congress and was vetted by the supreme court, that obama care needed to start in rollout, which it has. isn't that leadership? the president is sticking by his guns. why won't republicans follow? >> well, remember, we're way past now the question of

defunding or even delaying obama care in full. what we've come to now in our most recent offer is a delay of the individual mandate and repealing the medical device tax among others. it's not negotiating to pick what you think the compromise ought to be and then say you won't come to the table until everyone accepts it. i think the american people are understanding this. i think, frank low, the president, has overreached. when he's closing down open air national monuments that don't need to be closed enclosuclearl political reasons. when they're threatening vetoes on bills where there's already yae agreement. >> but that was the republicans shutting down the government. sequestration level funding was agreed upon by both sides. the only glitch in the system has been that you snuinstituted obama care hitch into the government running. that's the only thing where you disagree and that has nothing to do with open air parks. it has nothing to do with the

nih, it has nothing to do with the government running. it has all to do with what you guys have been trying to do, dismantle obama care. >> again, i wasn't there in those conversations a few weeks ago between the speaker and the president. what you can tell you is this, i know where we are. and where we are is we've passed nine different bills that have the support of dozens of my democratic colleagues. the president won't allow them to even be heard and then he threatens that he will veto them. it's not adult behavior to not be willing to negotiate and come to the table and at least talk. that's where the president is now and frankly i think the american people expect more than that out of their president. >> congressman luke messer, sir, thanks for your time. i appreciate it. so for some news around the country now, this shutdown really is a matter of life and death. every week about 200 new patients, including dozens of children, are admitted for clinical trials at the national institutes of health. with the government shut down they're now being turned away from experimental drugs and procedures that could save their

lives. joining me now is michelle langbehn. a new mom and has been battling sarcoma, a rare form of cancer. she started a petition to pressure congress to reopen the government so she and hundreds like her can start these clinical trials. michelle, thank you for joining us to share your personal story. as we start with your medical treatment, that's being held back on two different fronts now. describe how the shutdown is impacting your fight against this sarcoma. >> thank you for having me on. it is greatly affecting my ability to get in at this point. my treatment has been put on hold and i am not doing chemo anymore as a result because it might deem me ineligible for this trial. so right now i'm -- it's a waiting game for me and hundreds of others, as 200 people are trying to apply each week to nih and each of them are getting turned away right now. so as this week comes to a close, it's going to be up to 400 people.

so it's not only me, it's affecting so many others right now. >> michelle, were you able to hear congressman luke messer just a moment ago? >> yes, i did. >> what's your response to where he is putting the fault? what do you say to how he feels that the president is the one that's responsible for this shutdown and why you're not getting the medical treatment you need? >> well, i agree that it's not about winning at this point. it's a matter of life or death. and so many others are trying to get treatment right now. and they can't. it's not just a matter of inconvenience or an irritation for us at this point, it's, like i said, a matter of life or death. so something needs to change and negotiations need to be made. >> do you think, though, that this is such a potentially fatal irony for so many people. >> yes. >> people like you that are fighting for their lives over a health care glitch in the government shutting down. i mean this is all over the republicans wanting to shut down obama care and now you're not getting the much-needed health care that you need in the fight to save your own life.

>> exactly. it's -- no one wanted this to happen. obama care is here and it's here to stay. so it's almost a nonissue at this point. and it needs to change. >> michelle langbehn, thanks so much. we really appreciate you taking time to share your story and we send nothing but love and support to you and your family for your fight. we hope nothing but the best for you. >> thank you so much and thank you for mentioning the petition as well. it's change.org/shutdown, it would be ready appreciated the hello to my little daughter that's watching at home. >> michelle, thanks so much. we'll be right back after this. so i c

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we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ great. this is the last thing i need.) seriously? the last thing you need is some guy giving you a new catalytic converter when all you got is a loose gas cap. what? it is that simple sometimes. thanks. now let's take this puppy over to midas and get you some of the good 'ol midas touch. hey you know what? i'll drive! and i have no feet... i really didn't think this through. trust the midas touch. for brakes, tires, oil, everything. (whistling) more now on the breaking news we're following over the last few minutes, president obama calling house speaker john boehner. peter alexander joining me now. so, peter, what have you heard? this was pretty brief, correct? >> yeah, this was brief. it took place about 10:45, about an hour ago.

what we're experiencing here is that dueling, the competing message between house speaker john boehner's camp and the white house. we heard boehner -- his office saying the president had called to reiterate the fact that the president would not negotiate on government funding bill or the debt limit being increased right now. the white house is pushing back against that. again, the white house just putting out this statement a short time ago saying that in this call they repeated what the president told john boehner during their meeting at the white house last week, saying the president is in fact willing to negotiate with republicans but only after the threat of government shutdown and default have been removed. suffice it to say we're pretty much back where we started throughout the course of this thing as we barrel toward that debt limit, that crisis, the next catastrophe on the calendar scheduled for october 17th. of course we're now a full week into this shutdown taking place right now. on one side you've got the

republicans saying the white house needs to negotiate and they won't. on the other side, the white house saying we're willing to negotiate but only after you, the republicans, clear up this mess. thomas. >> my head hurts, peter. my head really hurts. >> reporter: it should. >> but speaker boehner wanted a conversation. so at least he got the phone call. he got a little bit of conversation out of the president. >> reporter: yeah, progress, sure. >> all right. nbc's peter alexander. peter, thanks so much, buddy. appreciate it. joining me is melody barnes, ceo of melody barnes solutions. good to have you here. my head really does hurt. i'm not going to lie to you, my head hurts over this because it just seems from the department of ridiculous that we're at this point right now. so as we look at the numbers here, 63% disapprove of the way republicans are handling this, 57% credemocrats and 51% on the president. plenty of blame to go around.

who wins if this mud fight continues? who's the big loser? >> i think the president said it well before when he said this -- no one is the winner here and we're not talking about winners and losers except for the fact that we have to stop holding the government hostage. we have to stop holding our full faith and credit hostage to these kinds of negotiations. so we need to reopen the government. we need to have a sensible then conversation about how to move forward and how to assure not only the american people but world leaders. we've got world leaders from china to japan to europe saying america, you've got to get your act together. >> what does this expose that's coming out of washington, d.c., right now? we talk about how dysfunctional washington, d.c., is but i feel like this is an overexposure of a great er thing that exists. >> the fissures have always been there and the fracturing has now been lifted to greater heights as we sit just a few days away from what secretary lew has told

us is the final countdown around raising the debt ceiling. so now it's not just a question of ideology or debates on the house floor or senate floor or whether or not people will negotiate with one another, it's actually very serious business and it's going to ripple into our mortgage markets. it's going to affect people like the guest that you just had on whose life is literally at stake because she can't go to nih. so the american people now i think are realizing just how serious these problems are. but at the same time, we also know that we have to be very serious about how we move forward. the government needs to reopen and we cannot put default on the table and pretend like this is something that's normal or something that won't cause serious shocks to our economic recovery. >> real quickly, i want to switch because education is affected boy this and we have education nation going on. this is also something very close to your heart. an article in "the new york

times" paints a bleak picture. it says that the well documented pattern of several other countries surnliging past the u in test scores and graduation rates corresponds to a skills gap extending far beyond school. it's based on a study being called the most detailed of its kind. we have japan, sweden, finland and norway all near the top. the u.s. lingering there in the middle. how best do we repair the playing field? you know, so that we can get our students, our kids where they need to be and to keep us in a dominant position on the globe? >> absolutely. and secretary duncan and i work very closely together and would talk about this. the fact of the matter is that america has remained stagnant. other countries have gone, you know, full blazes in moving forward. this is something they take very seriously. i was just in china at the end of the august. to talk to people there about education, the seriousness with which they take this issue and

the earnestness with which they face this issue means that america now has to move very, very aggressively because other countries aren't going to wait for us to catch up. it starts and it is a full package. >> it's to their benefit to see us fail. >> but we are living in a global economy, so we're all very, very closely linked to one another. we have to start with early education. that's one of the best investments we can make. if you look at it in pure economic terms, you get something like $10 for every $1 you put into early education. the kind of k-12 reforms that the president and secretary duncan have laid out. issues that are in jeopardy as a result of not only the sequester but shutdown and more seriously if we enter into default. and certainly higher education and job training. these are good middle skills jobs, middle class jobs that people can get with some kind of education after high school, but we have to make sure our students are prepared for that and they get that two-year grow, that credential, or that four-year degree and go on to

graduate school if they're going to compete globally and if they're going to live economically secure lives. >> former director of white house domestic policy council melody barnes. great to see you, thanks for your time. we've been asking you to share your thoughts on the shutdown and the stories with the #don'tshutmedown. man died when his helicopter crashed in texas yesterday. there's no one to go. we're all furloughed, faa, ntsb investigators. thanks to the gop shutdown, my 6-year-old daughter can't get a flu shot. from jen, my husband is a federal employee working without pay. add on to the 2010 cost of living pay freeze and then the mortga mortgage, question mark. you can only imagine what this is doing to people around the country. keep your stories coming in at #don'tshutmedown.

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welcome back, everybody. just learning this breaking news, the president will deliver

a statement and answer questions at 2:00 p.m. from the brady press briefing room. the president delivering a statement and answering questions from the brady press briefing room, this on the heels of reaching out to john boehner. after the president asked for a conversation, he called and reiterated he would not negotiate about the shutdown or debt ceiling. a brutal attack on an suv driver by bikers. new video of the attack showing the undercover cop riding with the bikers punching the car's rear window. the cop doesn't appear to participate in the assault. officials say he could now face criminal as well as dental charges. a former new york city police department investigator joins me more to talk about this. tom, this has a lot of people scratching their heads and questioning the role of the undercover officer in this group of bikers. now, this video coming forward of him actually assaulting the

vehicle. how does that change the narrative of what his responsibilities on site were. >> they changed the narrative. if they do have him participating in the assault or things leading up to the assault, as you alluded to in the open, he possibly could face dental as well as criminal charges. >> for a lot of people that don't understand why he waited so long for coming forward, there was a four-day span before he came forward. he didn't want to blow his cover. what is the responsibility, what is the edict of undercover officers in a situation like that? where do you draw the line on not blowing your cover but trying to jump in as a bystander to say, guys, cool it. back off. >> i think it's important to understand that there are different levels of undercover. if you're deep, deep undercover, there is a drastic difference. all my years of police work and law enforcement, i've only known two people who are really deep under cover. joe pistone, the fbi guy

well-known in all the movies. those are the three people i've known in my whole entire career. there's different levels. he has to do something. his main job is to protect and serve the people of the city of new york. if he sees something he has to come out of his undercover role to protect the people and he has to do something as a police officer. in my years, there were officers who had to take police action. they lo nonger were good as undercover. they couldn't be used as undercover. they had to be pulled out. >> again, this video allegedly showing him beating on the vehicle. in all, a total of five undercover cops, as i understand it, were a part of this group. some were off duty, though. we don't know where they were in the alignment of all these bikers and what they were witnessing or not witnessing. more details for sure. tom, great to have you here. that's going to wrap things up for me. see you back at 11:00 a.m. "now" with alex wagger coming up.

i said to peter alexander, you know me, my head hurts, my head hurts with all this stuff. it's from the department of ridiculousness. >> and now there's a press conference at 2:00 p.m. i can't follow the bouncing ball. it's hard. >> i'm taking a break. i'm going to go eat a snicker's bar and hang out and watch the snow. >> enjoy the snicker's bar. if at first you don't succeed, default. debt ceiling deniers and gop's latest game of chicken with chuck todd, howard fineman, margaret carlson. "new york times" mark masszetti. latest polling on conspiracy theories and republicans who love them. all that when "now" starts right after this. the end. lovely read susan. but isn't it time to turn the page on your cup of joe? gevalia, or a cup of johan, is like losing yourself in a great book. may i read something? yes, please. of course. a rich, never bitter taste cup after cup.

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bull, default. this is "now." apparently satisfied with a government shutdown that has furloughed hundreds of thousands of american workers, the republican party is eyeing the country's debt ceiling for its next kill. the latest sign the gop is seriously considering defaulting on the full faith and credit of the united states death ceiling trutherism. >> i don't think it's going to be collapsed. i think all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery, false demagoguery. >> steve king is not alone in his reckless ignorance. told failing the raise the debt limit would bring stability. congressman nick mulvaney cut his own slice. the wild theory