bull, default. this is "now." apparently satisfied with a government shutdown that has furloughed hundreds of thousands of american workers, the republican party is eyeing the country's debt ceiling for its next kill. the latest sign the gop is seriously considering defaulting on the full faith and credit of the united states death ceiling trutherism. >> i don't think it's going to be collapsed. i think all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery, false demagoguery. >> steve king is not alone in his reckless ignorance. told failing the raise the debt limit would bring stability. congressman nick mulvaney cut his own slice. the wild theory is that even if

the u.s. breaches the debt ceiling the treasury could continue to prioritize certain payments including social security. it's a line of logic refuted by cannot mists and most people with a general understanding of the way things work. last week the treasury department learned default would lead to the events of the magnitude of late 2008 or worse. credit markets could freeze, the value of the dollar could plummet, u.s. interest rates could skyrocket, negative could spill around the world. cost in 20111 million jobs and $19 billion in borrowing costs. what do actual economists know about this stuff? apparently a lot. said former staff director of the budget committee, i don'ten any serious person who doesn't think this will be cataclysmic. don't blame numbers crunchers

saying default is a good thing for the economy, according to the leadership, it is the democrats who are being reckless. >> by refusing to negotiate, harry reid and the president are putting our country on a pretty dangerous path. >> whether it's on the government's funding or the debt limit, people expect to have negotiations when there are two differing sides. >> the president is expected to make a statement at 2:00 p.m. in response to the latest overtures from the gop. joining me today washington bureau chief of mother jones david corrin, columnist for bloomberg view margaret carlson. also joining us from washington nbc news political director and chief white house correspondent chuck todd. chuck, as always, thank you for joining us. i want to go to you first in terms of this news that the president will be making a statement at 2:00 p.m. what that is about? is the white house concerned some talking points from the

right that the white house refuses to negotiate is hurting the white house in their argument? >> they would claim no. clearly you heard a little shift in tone from the president yesterday. each day of the shutdown, if you've noticed, there's been a way the white house has tried to have an opportunity for the president to speak on camera. some of it has been impromptu, like when he walked to lunch but took questions, something he doesn't normally do. that was the way they decided to do it. yesterday was fema. today it's a news conference. so i think this is more of the president getting his perspective out today in front of cameras, so the form they have chosen is this news conference. they keep sending this message. they did it pretty subtly yesterday. i'm guessing not so subtle today, which is simply telling boehner if you simply pass a clean -- they will accept anything that gets to their desk that's clean, no matter the

duration. hint hint speaker boehner. if you want to do this in five weeks, a five-week window here to force negotiations, so you can say you got the president to negotiate, as long as you pass the clean -- temporary clean funding bill and debt ceiling height for even a small period of time, he'll sign it. the white house spent all day yesterday throwing out these hints in various ways. i suspect we're going to hear the president in some ways say the same thing. so i'm sort of befuddled here. i think boehner has a way out if he wants to take this. >> that's the big question. >> i don't know if he wants to take it or if he can. >> that's the point. right, david? we don't know if boehner -- whether boehner feels like he can put an end to this or whether there needs to be a "d" fault on our debt. >> we don't know if he's driving the car. the car up to now has been hijacked by 30 or 40 tea partiers in the house, ted cruz in the senate. and don't forget koch brother stoked right wing groups for the

past months spending tens of millions of dollars. they have all come in and taken away john boehner's speakership for him. >> incredibly shrinking shership. >> back in 2011 when they were going through debt ceiling negotiation one of obama's red line was we won't do short-term extension, i won't go through this in six weeks or six months. now gene spurling is out there saying, hey, lets not go over the cliff. lets do something temporary that we can talk about in the long run that's giving in a little bit but not on the substance. >> howard, reason here may have exited the room. >> clearly. it's not even in the city. >> you have republicans in the house arguing about whether a default would be that bad for the country. you have speaker boehner almost powerless in the face of that. eric ericson arguing we need to stick to our guns funding obama care. none of this, shutdown, prospect

of full faith and credit of the united states being thrown into the red zone seems to be enough to get them to the table. >> you said logic left the room, it's been replaced by religious fervor, the only way i can put it. the more they are criticized, the more correct, heroic and saintly they think they are. in speaker boehner's case, i know from talking to his people long ago, and he said publicly months ago that he didn't want to do either of these things. he didn't want to attach obama care to the spending bill. he didn't want to threaten another default on the debt ceiling. but here he is being forced into a situation where he has to do both. that's because the motive power in his party from the outside money and more important their thinking is the more trouble we cause and the more criticism we face, the more proof it is that our cause is just. it's very difficult to negotiate

with people who believe they are about to become martyrs. >> joan of arc syndrome. >> they want to do it. that's the scary part here. >> with republicans, the degree to which they were itching to shut the government down was kind of fright think. the word was used again and again once it happened how excited they were. they had gotten their goal. so the substance almost doesn't matter if you can just have the driverless car. and the frightening thing about republicans is that no one is in charge. that's the scary part. not the extremist necessarily, certainly not john boehner. remember the indiana congressman last week who said we've been disrespected but we don't know what we want. >> certainly not -- >> a theory, too, okay, you give them a shutdown and then you don't have default. you try to gain the system out. it seems like they just want the whole ball of wax. they want the chaos.

you had these people on early in the show, we don't believe in default the way they don't believe in global warming and evolution. >> the tea party is not just the republicans burden and not just john boehner. >> the american people's burden. >> it's everybody's burden and they made themselves president obama's burden. it's almost as though they are in a situation of demanding that he somehow rescue them from the position they have gotten into. >> chuck, i want to ask you, the republicans if they have done anything sort of together and in line, it is passing these mini funding bills. that effort continues on today. democrats haven't seemed to use the legislative toolbox but now hearing senate democrats are moving forward with the effort to pass a clean debt krilg lift basic lip. how effective do you think that will be in terms of changing the dynamics and putting pressure on boehner to deal with the bill in the house. >> depends what it is.

harry reid's challenge, he wants a clean one. he wants it to the end of 2014. doing that clean and keeping democrats together, frankly that's not joe manchin, that's not easy either. i thought one way this could get resolved, does reid come up with a way that is a clean debt ceiling lift that isn't as long as what they have leaked out but is an attempt to get a dozen republicans on board, right, so you create -- this isn't just about seeing if you can get passed the 60 votes and pass it in a partisan way but are you able to get the senate republicans to send the message they have been quietly sending. these are senate republicans not named ted cruz, by the way. the majority of these senate republicans who have quietly been sending the signal and some not so quiet they think this is a fool's errand, all these tactics have back fired, none of them are working, does harry reid use his bill as a way to

give some of these senate republicans to publicly join and then basically jam boehner that way, send the message to boehner that way and in a weird way help boehner out, same with the fiscal cliff deal. look, that got half the senate republicans, what am i supposed to do. we've bought to go with this. it might keep the base at bay. i don't know if that works. >> let me ask you, does all this talk coming out of the house maybe it wouldn't be so bad to default, does that push moderates to link arms and pass that bill? one would think outside pressure from wall street and donors hearing the rhetoric that they are would maybe push the moderates to action. >> can i just say this has been the assumption for three years and hasn't really worked. the chamber of commerce and business community doesn't have the influence inside the republican party that it used to. what boehner is trying to do in a weird way, he's trying to

paper over what is could be an explosive rift inside the party. everybody is like is this about boehner saving his job? no, this is about boehner worried the entire thing comes apart, open warfare, a tea party grassroots movement to split off from the republicans they don't trust. that's what boehner fears, that's what mcconnell fierce and what some of these senate republicans fear. >> the linchpin to the strategy chuck is talking about is mitch mcconnell. >> who? >> he's essentially the republican leader in the senate. he's got, as everybody knows, he's got his own problems with the tea party. he's in a sort of uncomfortable alliance of convenience with senator rand paul right now who could sort of pull the plug on mcconnell any moment if he wanted to. so mcconnell is not going to give the all clear signal to those moderate republicans to do what chuck is suggesting. mcconnell is not going to take that step. >> it will cost him his job.

>> all comes back to kentucky. i overanalyze things that way. >> chuck, don't you think eventually this thing doesn't get resolved unless boehner at some point says no to the 30 or 40 house members who do want to go over the cliff. >> it's never going to happen. >> if he doesn't say that, these guys will not accept yes for an answer. >> i think that's right. boehner has tried out different -- last week i thought one of the most overlooked statements mcconnell made was when he came out of the white house meeting, he didn't appear on camera with boehner, he did an interview on cnbc, he started promoting, hey, are you aware government spending is at its lowest levels. sound like talking points obama uses. trying to sell republicans that, hey, keeping spending levels they got democrats to agree to is a win. >> no victory. >> it's not working.

that's the problem. alex, you identified it. eric ericson is not going to accept a compromise. i don't think special interest groups, heritage action for growth, are going to accept any sort of compromise that comes out of this, anything that isn't total surrender by the president on health care or total surrender by the president on other issues. we know where the president is on this and we know where harry reid is on this. i agree with you, david, i think the only way out for boehner is it's not going to happen, we've got to keep the government going. that's why i assumed this idea of temporary short-term basically putting off, kicking the can down the road two months which the white house is screaming at the top of our lungs to john boehner, do it. we'll lock ourselves in a room. >> margaret, we often wonder about boehner psychology, i'll play armchair psychology, the

only thing that makes sense in his behavior is what chuck alluded to earlier, this is a historic moment in the republican party and he's the only thing sewing together these disparate halves. >> he's super glue. he said friday there won't be a default expanded ground beyond budgets and obama care. i thought, okay, he's going to play on the ground in which he can declare victory and tea party will as well. but they will not accept a victory. >> on sunday he said we are going to default. >> he switched back. they got to him on saturday. how dare you claim that we've won the spending fight. no, we want to fight another day. >> they want the fight. >> they love the fight. >> as you point out, chuck, the senate taking $988 billion funding, those are republican levels, those are close to the original paul ryan plan than they are to anything the president has proposed or even the senate. >> and alex, lets remember there is an ideology here that i think

that howard pointed out is being clung to in a religious way, which is there's a core element of the tea party caucus inside the republican party that simply wants to shrink government whatever means necessary that does it. not raising debt ceiling, these guys think, fine, pay the debt down, pull back on benefits by $200 million to cut the gap on an annual basis. they don't care on that because ultimately their ultimate goal is to do what? shrink the size of the federal government. that's really what this core fight is about. they lost this leverage and high ground on this when they tried to make it go after health care first and this. they have been very muddled in what they want. >> emulsioned is, in order, the name of the game. nbc news political director thank you for your time and thoughts. >> of course. >> you can catch chuck every weekday on "the daily rundown"

on msnbc. after the break, new poll numbers confirm what many of us already suspected. republicans love a good government conspiracy. we will talk a third obama term and the conspiracy to enslave americans through currency manipulation. that is all real next on "now." [ male announcer ] if you're a rinse user, you may have heard there's a new rinse that talks about protecting, even after eating and drinking. crest pro-health has always done that. it's clinically proven to fight plaque and gingivitis. rinsing with pro-health after brushing can take your oral health to a new level. now that's the new you need. right from the beginning i could really feel it changing something for the better. i know there's been an improvement. my pearly whites, they feel really good. [ male announcer ] go pro. with the brand you can trust, crest pro-health.

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exceptional, exceptionally prone to conspiracy theories. a month after sandra day o'connor lamented the alarming degree of public ignorance in this country we got another taste with the release of ppp's second annual conspiracy theory

poll. in it we learned 17% of americans and 27% of republicans believe that world bankers are slowly eliminating paper currency so they can then cut off the power grid depriving americans access to their money and forcing them into worldwide slavery. that is nearly one-third of the gop that believes that. one-quarter of americans, including 44% of republicans believe that president obama is secretly trying to figure out a way to stay in office past 2017, probably because 2013 that been so much fun for him. in news that should surprise no one 36% of respondents including 62% of republicans, 62, think president obama is trying to take their guns away despite the lessons of newtown proving the exact opposite. as to the ever present threat of the muslim state, 42% of republicans think muslims are covertly implementing sharia law

in american courts. where is this baseless fear coming from? quite possibly republican leaders. every gop with the exception of mitt romney espoused sharia law rhetoric on the campaign trail. this summer north carolina became the seventh red state to ban the phantom menace. democrats may not be immune to the nonsense but a tenuous grasp on reality is a hall mark of the right. a recent group of reporters conducted by james carville found just how deep the disdain is for president obama among the base of this party. among the reports, key findings, conservatives think they are losing ground and president obama has won on a socialist agenda. they are very conscious of being white in a country that is increasingly minority. the problem in d.c. is not gridlock. obama has won. the problem is republicans failing to stop him. the findings prompted andrew sullivan to lament the right return of the party attempting

to rationalize the irrational sullivan opined i see no way to integrate groups into broader body politic or conversion. their alienation is so deep it's close to unbridgeable. the center is not holding. i fear it will get even worse than this until it gets better. he's become a little stain magnet too. but tide free & gentle cleans better in one wash than that other free detergent. wait what happened? where did those stains come from? [ kelly ] that's my tide, what's yours? [ baby giggles ] they always have. they always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach.

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this morning the supreme court heard oral arguments in a case that could open the flood gates of campaign donations. at stake mccutchen versus fec is the total amount an individual can donate in an election cycle. currently they can give $2600 to each candidate but only until they give a total of $48,600. the case challenges that cap, they should give the $2600 maximum to as many candidates as he or she wants. the problem is wealthy individuals could give massive

donations that could be filtered to various campaigns around the country. an individual could give up to $3.5 million to politicians and political parties. this would dramatically raise the cost of access to elected officials silencing the voices of millions of average americans and giving a few wealthy donors unprecedented influence over legislators. joining us from outside the supreme court is nbc justice correspondent pete williams. pete, thanks for joining us. what is the argument from each side and what was the response from the justices today? >> well, the argument for people who support these limits is just as you've laid it out. without them people could basically overcome the individual limit, which is intended to prevent corruption and candidates would be so beholden to a few wealthy individuals who would end up financing the bulk of campaigns. the other side here, though, the people who are challenging these limits say, in fact, there already are checks in place that the parties and the other committees can give only so much money to candidates.

by the way, some of the conservatives on the court here say that's not an argument for keeping limits. right now an individual can give as much money as he or she wants to a pack and the pack can give lots of money to lots of different candidates. the people would know who that money is coming from. in any event, i think what's going to happen here, a part of these aggregate limits does seem to be doomed here. that's the limit that says you can only give $48,600 to all candidates put together. the chief justice is probably the controlling vote here. what he seems to say, doesn't make sense, can give the maximum amount to nine but can't give maximum amount to ten candidates. that doesn't make any sense of the other thing he says, suppose a person feels very strongly about wanting to support candidates who favor environmental regulation and gun control, he said they sort of have to decide which they are going to support.

they shouldn't have to do that. a restriction on free speech which said in previous supreme court money is. there don't seem to be five votes to strike down other limits challenged here on how much money in total you can give to political parties and pacs and other candidate committees. those probably will survive. there don't seem to be five votes either for what supporters of campaign finance would consider doomsday scenario where the supreme court goes all the way and says, okay, we're going to strike down all the limits on contributions together. that was always at play in this case any time the supreme court looks at this issue, that is always a potential that could happen. unless something happens between now and when this decision comes out, i don't think there's five votes to go that far. >> david cornyn here. david, as pete notes, it's not that the supreme court is necessarily going to strike down all campaign donation limitations but certainly in the way that citizens united dramatically changed the

landscape, i think we can see the decisions the court handed down thus far on donation limits have really changed the field of play. >> i would ask pete this, one of the core principles of our campaign finance laws that came out after watergate was to limit any one individual's influence. we don't want a system when millionaires and billionaires could have outsized influence more than anybody else even though there are free speech issues here. i'm wondering if that core issue got discussed much from either side today as they went through some of these technical arguments. >> absolutely. members of the court's liberal wing are very concerned about that, justice briar and justice ginsburg saying you have a problem here if justice ginsburg if the super affluent end up influencing campaigns and other people do not have a voice. other people will say what's the point of participating in politics anymore if my voice doesn't count. but i think for the majority of

the court, the issue, legal hinge are corruption. supreme court upheld limits on contributions on the theory if you can give unlimited amounts of money directly to a candidate, you buy the candidate, you get corruption, you get something for your money. what the court seems to say here, though, is you don't have that same problem if you're giving the maximum to lots of different candidates. the government's claim here is if you can do that, you can give to candidate committees and that money can get funneled back. in other words, you can circumvent the individual contribution limits. >> indeed. >> that's been the distinction. >> nbc justice correspondent pete williams, thank you for the latest. >> you bet. >> after the break latest u.s. raids in somalia highlight the war on terror, the new front in failed states when "new york times" mark mazzetti joins us coming up on "now." (dad) just feather it out. that's right.

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but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol®. two counter-terror raids over the weekend in libya and somalia, one successful, one not have people wondering if they are shifting from drone strikes and over to ground operations and special forces. in somalia the navy's stored s.e.a.l. team six was forced away. a deadly siege on a shopping mall in nairobi. in libya special forces got their prize, long sought in connection to the u.s. embassy bombings in kenya and tanzania. al libi who has yet to be red his miranda rights is detained

offshore aboard uss san antonio. he's likely to be brought back to the u.s. to stand trial and currently faces charges in new york city. a new focus on capturing rather than eliminating terrorist leaders was broadcast by obama. >> america does not take strikes when we have a chance to take individual terrorist. our purpose is always to detain, interrogate, prosecutor. >> mark mazzetti, author of "a cia, the war at the end of the earth." thanks for joining us. your thought about these two raids in the last week and what that means measurably in terms of u.s. counter-terrorism strategy. >> partly i think although they happen on the same day they have to be looked at separately. somalia is this case where the u.s. is still going to be loathe to do a lot of boots on the ground operation just because of the risk involved. since 9/11 they have really

avoided having american ground troops in somalia because of the history there with the united states and somalia but also because the intelligence is so bad. so i wouldn't expect to see dozens of these or a whole lot of u.s. counter-terrorism operations in somalia. in the libya cases, it's quite interesting because there is a government the u.s. deals with. it does signal that, you know, after the arab spring, with all of these authoritarian governments being toppled in north africa, the u.s. has sort of become more concerned about the terrorism problem in places like libya, tunisia and egypt. so i think it's fascinating and extraordinary these two separate things happen on the same day. >> when you talk about the libya piece, the libyan government is now asking the u.s. ambassador to explain what happened. any time you sort of have an american operations -- an american operative on the ground doing anything, it is risk, as you point out. the question, i guess, is how

does the u.s. tactically use these folks in a way that is both -- there is coverage and at the same time the host country is not alienated in the same way the libyans appear to be today. >> well, what the united states tended to do in the last decade, if they want to do an operation in a country where the u.s. is not officially at war, they put them under cia authority. for instance in the bin laden raid in 2011, they sent s.e.a.l.s in and didn't ask pakistani position but did it under cia authority. the really interesting case in libya, if it is under military authority and libyans didn't know anything about it, then it really would be an extraordinary precedent. somalia, again, the case is there's never really been a fully functioning government to deal with so the u.s. interpreted that as sort of they have cart blanche in the country to operate because of its status

as a so-called failed state. it's a case-by-case basis. it does show here we are 12 years after 9/11 and the military and the cia do interpret these authorities pretty broadly. >> your point about failed states, we are conducting drone operations, iraq, not iraq, afghanistan, iraq but certainly doing those things there as well but we're talking about north africa, we're talking bought mali, al qaeda in northwest africa, algeria, libya, al shabaab operation am in eastern africa and somalia and kenya, sharia in northwest and northern africa, mahli, tunisia, libya. africa is now the new front in the war on terror. i go back to this piece in the atlantic explaining why africa is a good host, if you will, for this kind of islamic terrorism. islamists are able to take advantage of the fact many of the continent's countries have porous borders weak and corrupt

governments, undertrained and underequipped mirlts, flourishing drug trades, vast space difficult to mount counter-terror efforts even if the war wary obama administration chose to do so. >> what the obama administration faces is how deep do they want to get into africa with all of the factors you discuss. they can do these discreet types of operations but the real question is do they want to launch operations across north africa because there are militants or suspected militants, or do they let other countries do it or do they have to narrow the scope. for instance, in smol yaromalian feeling al shabaab is a regional issue, not worth risking troops because they haven't attacked united states. the attack a few weeks ago changed that calculation.

this is what they have to figure out. do they want to go to war everywhere or narrow, tailor operations to who the u.s. is really worried about. >> behavior and policy stance on syria would seem to suggest administration doesn't want to get involved any place over there if it doesn't have to. "new york times" mark mazzetti, thank you for your time. >> wendy davis highlights hard scrabble bioin a campaign ad but a thing she's not mentioning that has some people talking. we will talk lone star politics and other crucial races just ahead. check it out.

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as washington acts out its on apocalypse now there's some glimmers of humanity. governor scott walker finally got a challenger when mary burk bicycle executive announced her candidacy. while burke is a millionaire she will need all the help she can get. survived a recall unprecedented $13 million two-thirds of which came from out of state. margaret, we talk a lot about scott walker. a lot of people think he may end up being a presidential nominee in 2016. at this appoint, where do you put mary burke's prospects? >> i put walker in the what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. he got his bad stuff out of the way and then survived the recall. she is a really attractive candidate.

if anybody could do it, she's the kind of fresh face, you know, entrepreneur, has her own money candidate. however, i hate to disappoint you, but i think it's uphill. i think he has solidified his popularity. >> he has a tremendous amount of national support. i wrote a piece about republicans in the senate maneuvering for the 2016 nomination. the smart people saying doesn't run out of congress look to conservatives. shrewd conservative activists looking to governors like scott walker as potential standard bearers in 2016. he's very popular out there. >> he's become a national icon that's howette $13 million out of the state. i'm biased because i own a bicycle and like it a lot. >> she's pro bike. >> someone that can talk about jobs and growing a family from a family business to a global bike

powerhouse, she's probably about the best bet the democrats could put up against scott walker. >> it's a lot of women democratic challengers around the country. >> speaking of which wendy davis released her first ad-in her texas run for governor and features her daughter. >> my mom started out like many folks do, in a tough spot. she was raised by a single mother with a sixth grade education. she married young and by 19 was divorced and raising me as a single mother. >> wendy davis setting aside the pink mizunos filibuster, remember record on reproductive rights, which may not help her in tech, has an incredible personal story. we don't know that much about her as a candidate. i ask you, wendy davis focus on background, by okay, hard scrabble economics and not talk so much about abortion and reproductive freedom. >> that's not a broadening issue to run on.

i hate to be debbie downer, whacking you really hard, in a few years as texas population changes, a democrat like wendy davis is going to have a better chance. i think now, especially since her signature issue, if she can broaden out, that one issue, nobody likes to run on a single issue. and abortion, even if you're pro-choice, it is not for the pro-choicers the totally animating issue that you're going to vote on. >> although it is. 63% of registered voters think the lone star state already has enough anti-abortion laws on the books. what tech has done to restrict reproductive freedoms is not your run-of-the-mill legislation. >> one thing she has going for her, she's made a name. she's now a character, an icon, a public figure. so probably polarizing in certain ways but she has a lot of good campaign skills. ann richards managed one back a

few decades ago when texas was a little different, a few democrats would win statewide elections. it really is uphill. the castro brothers have a blue state project but may be more like an eight, twelve year program than anything in the next two years. >> the democrats, even though they may not win the state house in texas, governorship in texas this way, all these very attractive, interesting populist-style and busy savvy women candidates help them nationally. it helps the national brand even more and creates an even bigger problem for the republicans who have huge demographic issues to deal with. wendy davis may not win texas but she may help the democrats win the 2016. >> she and mary burke are great faces to have on the up and coming democratic party. >> speaking of women in the republican party's problem with them. >> our favorite woman. >> and divisive social issues, a

new outside ad is attacking wyoming senate candidate liz cheney for not being sufficiently anti-gay. it features a clip from liz cheney appearing on msnbc in 2009. >> in wyoming cheney campaigns as a conservative. in washington she appears on msnbc to campaign against the marriage amendment and support government benefits for gay couples. >> i applaud, for example, the state department decision to extend benefits to same sex partners around the world. >> msnbc, nail in the coffin. >> this is mike enzy, the sitting senator announcing directly or indirectly we're going to play cuff here. you want to come in and tell me i'm not a conservative, okay, this is going to be tougher than you might think.

>> she has a gay sister. for the record, i love my sister but she is dead wrong on the issue of marriage. >> this is their version of f t fratricide. >> attacking her on the right is a smart thing to do. >> it is. she came out and said she disagreed with gay marriage with her sister. her sister posted a facebook thing saying i love my sister but she's wrong. cheney parents in favor of gay marriage. now she's being attacked for being soft on gay marriage. at the same time blood feuds between the cheneys, simpson and his wife. this is becoming dallas in wyoming. >> margaret, as we saw the schism, i think you're right, you want to play hardball, lets play hardball, this is terrible idea on marriage equality. maybe not in wyoming but --

>> like todd aiken, a legitimate rape. >> forces a conversation. >> it's such an interesting one causes brother versus brother, sister versus sister in wyoming. you have her making every clumsy mistake to people in wyoming who don't want a republican from mclane, virginia coming in and getting hunting licenses and forcing herself on the community just for her own political purposes. and that enzi, who is the kind of republican that you want in the senate. he seems reasonable. has he a pretty conservative record. >> there's a problem there. >> he's an accountant. he has a green eye shade on? we can't have those. >> that's what i'm saying. >> you want that kind of pocket protector sort of guy. >> she's trying to coin from a tea party perspective on a guy who wouldn't get a tea party challenge. talk about the national brand, i

think it's great. any time he gets out there and reminds the public of cheney in any way, that's not good for the republican party. >> howard. >> enzi having been threatened, having been a pocket protector accountant stair at his own shoes kind of guy, moderate old-fashioned republican is challenged and fighting back the challenge from the right. last month at a big conservative conference in new york that he never in the old days would have shown up at. he came to say, hey, i want you support. again, it shows the power of the tea party which basically now enzi and liz cheney are going to fight for support of prosecu. >> i wonder if in any way dick cheney and the brand are cowed by the potential defeat of his daughter in the senate race that stoked a lot of flames in the party. does dick cheney feel bad at the end of the day? >> i don't think he's capable of feeling bad. he started a war. >> your kids are always fighting about something.

>> i wonder how much he really encouraged her to do this. i know cheney a bit. i'm not entirely sure. >> we'll see. >> okay. >> if father knows best. we know he doesn't know best. thank you to david howard and margaret. that is all for now. i'll see you back at noon eastern when i'm joined by michael steele, ezra klein, aclu and vogue's editor-at-large. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. a reminder to stay with msnbc for full coverage of the president's statement at 2:00 p.m. today. unfortunately the southeast, we're still lingering with rain and wind and clouds. there could be minor travel inconvenience there. middle of the country looks great. pacific northwest just some showers. overall a much better travel day on this tuesday.

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meet is the return of their loved one's remains. >> for the sacrifice our kids are making at the age they are making them, i don't understand how this can be a benefit that's withheld. i one ever understand it. >> will this mother's cry be the wakeup call washington needs to fix this mess. >> we send our soldiers to war. we tell them we're there to take care of their families if something happens. now because of a small group of tea party republicans, we say we can't even take care of your family when you die in the service of the country. for shame, mr. president, for shame if that happens. good