fantastic comic. you got another one? >> yeah, "snl" will never be the same without bill hader's james carville. >> so good. just give a little snippet of it. >> rest assured that the issue >> the "morning joe" starts right now. . >> here's the 2, 2, a swing and a mills. and the boston red sox are moving on. oh, how about those red sox? >> they're nice. they're fantastic. >> i tell you what, the rays, they are the -- i was more concerned about the rays. you know what they do with that money down there, you have to

give them credit. the red sox, last place last season. now, here they are in the alcs, they host the game one on saturday fenway, they'll be favorites. they go back to the world series. >> detroit and the as and that series has been unbelievable. the as, man, talk about money ball. >> all good for baseball. >> all good for baby. this is good for baseball. you know, agser newburg. whether we want to know, obviously, that was great. >> by 07, you know what, we were starting to become what we always claimed we always hated. seriously. we paid a lot of people a lot of money. we won the world series. it's kind of hard to be self-righteous against the yankees. >> right. >> but this team, everybody is really excited about this team, they're a bunch -- they are low key guys that nobody expect --

everybody expected to be them in 3rd, 4th, 5th place. >> they were a middle of the pack team at best. i remember talking at spring training, ah, you know, we were 500 they fell a little abefore 500. they have been awesome. they got that idiate back. 2004. they had the borders, kind of strange. >> yes, it is like walk. >> yes, it is like washington. >> these guys, they're not exactly no names. man, they are stars. a lot of these guys are -- i don't know how they do it. >> at this point you can say that jim cramer is here, host of cnbc's ""mad money."". >> he's maed. >> from the huffingtop post, sam steinman. so we will get to the government

shutdown to where everything stands at this point. >> the president gave a little yesterday. a little flexible. >> no, i don't think so. >> they started weeping. >> if we're going to go there, eactually. >> he did say, i'll give you a couple weeks extension to physical out h figure out how to save yourself. >> they can figure out how to save themselves. >> he came to him back in july and offered to pass a clean government funding resolution. no obama care amendments. they were $70 billion below what the senate wanted. they've accepted it. now, you've reneged on this offer. >> there were several conversations. >> several. >> you wanted a clean resolution. >> i and my members decided that the threat of obama care and what was happening was so important it was time for us to take a stand.

>> did you bleeping hear that? can we stop having the conversation about it? oh, they had a deal, but, obama carry. we didded to take a stand. look, you think obama care is a big enough threat to this country that you need the shut down the government over it? fine. own it. don't fart and point at the dog. [ laughter ] . >> like i said, it was a little coarse. i think it makes the point. you all are laughing. >> what do you want? how true is it john meacham? >> all true. >> i'm going to the first lady's lunch. i'm a republican. i'm going to put a lot more hair spray in and fawning all over you. >> i don't think that was necessary. >> i don't understand, why does she heat first ladies in. >> he was making fun of my

jacket. i never wear a jacket. i know, i look like a republican. >> you do. we got the lincoln dinner tonight. >> yes, darling. i gotcha. >> it's not an echo. >> what down the president is trying to give the republicans an offramp? >> trying to make something happen in that long event the ought day. i think somebody's got to do something to move them off the dime and i think if the president is going to do that, that's why we are. >> yesterday the president called the house speak tore reiterate he will not negotiate with republicans until the debt ceilingis raised. both spoke in the afternoon. here we go. >> the american people do not get to demand a ransom for doing their job. you don't get a chance to call your bank and say i'm not going to pay my mother-in-law unless you throw in a new car and ax-book.

imagine if they promised for gun background checks or immigration reform. i think it's fair to say republicans would not think that was appropriate. we can't make extortion a democracy. democracy doesn't function this way. to all the american people, i apologize you have to go through this stuff every three months it seems like. lord knows, i'm tired of it. >> the long and short of it is, there is going to a negotiation here. at times leak this, the american people expect their leadtories sit down and have a conversation. i want that conversation for now. the president said today was if there is unconditional surrender by republicans, he'll sit down and talk to us. that's not the way our government works. >> meanwhile, the house has passed a bill that would make sure government workers are paid on time instead of after the shutdown. the bill also creates a bipartisan negotiating team between the house and the is thatt to work on the debt limit.

democrats have rejected another so-called super committee. democrats in the senate are also moving forward with a clone debt ceiling increase. they are looking up to shore up republican support to bypass a filibuster. the bill would raise the debt ceiling through 2014. >> jim cramer, you know, hearing some logers claim that we can have a defall. it's not really a default, america would be just fine if we didn't pass a debt krielig increase. >> it's just not true. i know, there is a lot of people sad this morning. senator johnson that representative joe barton that says we have enough money. we don't have enough money. why do we do these auctions? we don't have enough pin mon. we to have to raise money. there will be a recession in two to six months. >> why do they say it then? >> because you can prioritize if you want to and pay social security and the debt and have

enough min to do that, pay some of medicare. there will be several, i don't know, maybe 100 billion that can't be paid beginning say the second week of november. these are just, it's aright met tick. october 17th seems like a drop dead date. it's a goal post move. in a golden stance, you can't score. >> sam stein,let bring in sam. so, basically, the reporting we are hearing yesterday is that republicans may be opened to a temporary raising of the debt creel figure the president negotiates with them. what would republicans be looking for and since the president hasn't showed a lot of willingness to goekt negotiate then, why would he be willing to do it during that period? >> for the president, it comes

down to can you get an agreement? that's his precondition. he soemd opened to a short-term deal. john boehner came out and said that's unconditional surrender for republicans. i'm not sure how close heads are on negotiating to negotiate. if they were to make it no that place, where they were sitting down and talking and we didn't have the threat of the default looming over our heads and the government was reopened. the negotiations are somewhat there. paul ryan for the "wall street journal" when she talked about how theoretically republicans can give in on sequestration cuts for some sort of entitlement reform. paul ryan was immediately attacked by the senate conservative fund for not going over obama care. democrats would not like the component. those are the relatively small type dole that could taik take place him none of that will happen unless you get some sort of relief from the threat of default an a government

shutdown. >> okay. and then, of course, sam -- >> yes, a question. >> you did. >> sam, i'd like to show that. >> can we do that? >> so this is -- it's all right. we're proud. >> sam stein. >> mr. president, when speaker boehner so far unwilling to hold a vote on a clean cr, what assurances can you give those affected by a shutdown concerned by a longer impassee and how worried are you personally that your clean sequestration levels may do harm to the nation's economy? >> well, i mean, sam, you are making an important point. >> you are making an important point. >> worry asking -- >> you were reading the question. who reads the question in did mike wallace? >> sam donaldson. >> sam! >> i thought you were going to

criticize me for my tie or something. i didn't think it was going to be the reading of the question. >> you don't rode questions, do you? >> i didn't have a lot to read off my note pad. >> why do you think, john meacham? >> rookie. >> from fdr forward, i think. >>. >> i'll try better next time. sorry. >> now he said it's a good question. >> it's important. >> the staff wrote it, but, i mean, sam, i'm joking, come on. >>let move on. >> there has been one piece of common wisdom that i think deserves looking at, which is that we have never had minorities controlling the government before, that the majority has always been in control. that was implicit in president's argument yesterday. it's not introduce. southern democrats control the congress for a great chunk of

the 20th century, stopping various civil rights ledges laegs that they didn't want to have happen, representing the minority view. because they master the procedural mechanics. we have been here before and even when there were adjudicated public opinion had ripened to a certain course of action, there were senators who could stop action. and so this is a part of the madisonian model here and it's something that there are no structural reforms that can i think of. >> i had a guy come out with me yesterday and say, oh, this is ful illegal. madison would say, if the house of representatives is doing something that goes against the majority of americans, guess what they're up for election every two years. >> exactly. >> and it will be corrected at

the ballot box in 2014. >> what would hamilton say? you have to pay no matter what? the president backed away from the 14th amendment, we will have a recession in two to sex months. great word out from j.p. morgan talking exactly how long it takes to have a recession, two to six months, very reasonable to expect we have massive layoffs if this is true. >> if this continues, j.p. morgan, who, the guy has been the most right about it, we could be in a recession within two months. >> yes. >> by the way, jamie doirnlgsd he used to like the president. >> no, i'm saying, this is a company for conspiracy theorists for the write-up, this is wall street, no, this is a company run by agy that used to like the president, has very little right now to be honest. >> i don't disagree. >> they're saying if this continues, mika, a recession in

two months, possibly. >> we have some problems right now that are direct results of the controversies. >> this is horrible. >> the bodies of four soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice in avg will arrive at dover air force base and the family of sergeant hawkens and the others will have to pay for their own way to delaware. and pay out of their own pockets for their funerals. that's because the pentagon said it's unable to pay out debt betts benefits because of a shutdown. >> that means any servicemen member killed sense october 1st will not receive the automatic $100,000 usually paid to families within 36 hours of a death for found ral costs. it's an crash that has led to outrage on both side of the aisle. >> it's shameful and embefore a rasing. america could fail the families of our fallen heros.

appalling, frightening. >> i don't care who it is or how it's shaped, let's sit down and get out of this so that these family whose loved ones just died, just died will receive the benefits at least will give them some comfort and solace in this terrible hour of tragedy. >> the house is scheduled to vote on a billed to to restore the payment, but. >> that's as low as it gets. >> pass it clone. >> the update to that story, there is a foundation out of maryland called fisher house, it says it will pick up the tab now. because this is a great country, better than the people that represent them in washington. group has stepped up and will pay for the advance grants, the flights for the families, hotels and other incidentals. it is beinging picked up by the

government. >> wow. >> a couple other stories to get to. chris chris tow locks to lock up a second term as government of the garden state. last night, he met his challenger, state senator barra buono. the two spoke on a number of issues, including christie's presidential aspirations. >> people have been talking about me running for president in 2010. they said i was doing it in 2012. i said i wouldn't and i didn't. after 20, 17, i will be looking for a new job anyway. i will in the declare for you or anybody else. >> it doesn't matter whether you are running for president. it matters how you are running. >> i can walk and chew gum and do the job. i can dell with the future. >> a recent quinnipiac poll had chris tow leading 64 to 30%.

that was pretty clear. >> pretty clear. isn't it interesting, sam stein, that most politicians will hedge, i'm not going to do it. they will do a don't am, a don't am, undon't am. he was basically saying, you know what i'm going to do, i'm going to run for president while i'm governor of new jersey. i can do both. what's it to you? >> he nearly had the ball there, can i walk and chew gurnlgs which is an ad mix he is running. i like the candid inside i gechlts i think it's overstated how people react to politicians with greater ambitions. i think voters get that. chris christie has been blunt throughout his term. i think people appreciate that as well. i think he has this in the balg. 46 to 30. i'm not a mathemetician. >> doesn't he lock great? he's lost a lot weight. he and coach ryan if a foot

race. >> yeah, whatever race they're in. but wall street is going to be behind this guy. >> christy, wall street loves christie. >> he is firm, he understands how to create jobs. people feel he has the pulse of the country. >> i think he's going to, yeah, what does the house republican caucus make? >> i don't think they matter in the lowest. i think actually chris christie is going to be even more popular with the business community, not just on wroet, but from wroet to, you know the west coast. because he's tre angulated, just lick clinton did against the liberal house democrats. it just makes him, it's just going to make him stronger. >> really, in his outsider status has never locked better than it is right now. he doesn't have to be asked. he will bring it up on the campaign trail.

taking shots at walk. that's me, not them sample joe, add to that the fact that everyone, a lot of republicans in washington traditionally pro business republicans are questioning the significance of default. they are embracing the notion of a government shutdown. i can't imagine that wall street sources, people in the community, republicans will be thrilled with having to get behind a washington, d.c. republican. so they're looking for someone like chris chris tow to emerge within the party. >> we are seeing such a dwoid yesterday, bobby jindal governor, we governors that control 60% of the governors mansions, worry getting things done and we're getting things done working with democrats. worry balancing budgets. worry growing economies. here doing everything that washington republicans are not doing. it really is, you lock at some of these republican governors, the really god job they're doing. it is a tale of two parties

here. >> voters like that. it's not hard. >> in ohio, chris christie and new jersey. >> baefk amy, embracing the oil ref lougs. jindal making more jobs in texas. >> one story, in a few hours president obama will nominate janet yellin, she will be the first woman ever to lead the central bank. she is currently the fed's vice chair woman and was a key architect to keep interest rates 94 record lows, yellin would replace ben kline bernanke whose term ends in january. opposition is starting to take shape. republican senator from tennessee bob corker said in a statement, i voted against vice chairman yellin's original nomination. we will closely examine her records since that time, but i am not aware of anything that demonstrates her views have

changed. >> so bob corker, as we all know around this table, is a rational guy. >> under peyton manning. >> oh, that, to. but he's a very rational guy. what's he talking about? >> i think this is a shame, i think corker is really the conscious of the senate. the same way we used to spoke about joe clark. >> howard baker, actually. people spoke of howard baker that way. what is he talking about here? >> the dovish policy is buying bonds. how pressures was ben kline bernanke when he said they weren't going to taper off bond buying, he may have to pass a dent ceiling resolution the chinese who own 1.3 trillion said yesterday, listen, very vocal t. chinese are never vocal. they said, listen, we are ready to stop. yellin supports that position. i'd like to know whether senator corker understands. i think he's a perfect goichlt at this very moment, somebody

has to boy these bonds when the chinese and japanese start teleselling. >> what is yellin? >> she is a middle of the read, consensus builder. she was involved with the federal reserve during 1995 during the last shutdown. she is a person regarded as an experienced hen. >> it's kind of amazing when you think about we talk so much about elective politics. when you think of voerk, grown span, b -- voelker, greenspan, bernanke. up next, jim vandahy joins us with the politico playbook. and here's bill kierans with a check of the -- i'm scared.

>> after yesterday. >> oh, boy. >> he's still here. >> it's amazing. >> do you believe they didn't fire him after yesterday? >> a suspended sentence. >> the punishment was being forced to come back again. >> oh. that's good. >> there you go. what do you got? >> unfortunately for the east coast, we sen a beautiful fall so many great days. now we have the storm coming up the coast. we will get fourks five days in a row of rain, wind, glomy weather, probably maybe until tuesday of next woke. let me take you into it show you this storm, this is combined with tropical storm karen. it feels like a tropical storm on the outer banks t. rain is moving northward into virginia beach, later no washington, d.c. this will occur over the next five days. the high to the north will

protect northern new england. from new england southward to the outer banks, we will have this flow off the ocean day after day. in the middle of the country, you are great, look at washington, d.c., this takes us out through saturday and sunday. that's the worst five-day forecast in the mid-atlantic for two or three months. you are watching "morning joe" on this wednesday. lyrics: 'take on me...' ♪

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♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach. ♪ >>. >> oh, that's great. did i ever tell you the time your father talked to david mcintosh and -- okay. never mind. before your time. how are you doing? >> do you locate your dad?

>> do you like your dad? >> gutsy. >> most of the time. >> did you have a food time in new york? thanks for coming. >> we now have to talk to twrour your dad. we'd rather talk to you. thanks, cutie. >> lock at that, james, jr.. >> so cute! >> it doesn't get any better tan that. >> all mom. you bought the to tell mom. >> he's awesome. >> lock at him strutting out. >> all right, let's take a look at the morning papers. we will start with the pawing post, more than 200 poem were arrested yesterday at an immigration rally 94 capitol hill, including at least 81 member osf congress. john lewis, cart wrang el. louis go out res, they are calling for a reform bill that includes a path to citizenship.

an undercover detective will be in court in connection with the road rage episode caught on camera in new york city. this is unbelievable. nbc new york confirmed new video showing that there was actually one of the undercover officers punching the suv and shattering its rear window. the ten-84 veteran of the nypd is charged with rioting and criminal mischoevgs that cops are doing that? that's unbelievable. >> i think that explains why the others aren't coming for. some furloughed government workers are back to work at the cdc after 94ly 300 cases of salmonella were reported over 17 states. federal officials saty outbreak may have originated at the foster farms chicken plant. no recalls have been issued. switzerland will hold a vote to grant an unconditional income of

$2,800 a month for every adult living in the country. it comes after ork noisers collect 94ly 100,000 signatures t. group behind it calls it a financial safety net and says it will be partially financed through the country's social ens. >> wow. okay. l.a. times, a former school in california is charged with embezzleing $1.8 million from the realto unified school district. she was filmed on under surveillance stuffing lunch money into her bra. >> she got $1.8 million. >> she is suspected of stealing money over the course of eight years as much as $3.16 million may be missing from the direct. >> that's a lot of money. >> that's a big bra. >> that is a big bra. >> wow. >> okay.

>> all right, well, still trying to digest that. >> new york daily news, long distance swimmer don't na nyad began her women in new york. she is swimming a 44 marathon in mi midtown manhattan. last month, she became the first person to swim to cuba in a shark cage. >> shows so col. >> what happened that day? >> let me tell you, so, there is this horrible story written about me. >> early fall. >> a leaker. >> i am actually going to talk to his son. >> did he ever apologize for that? this feels like a good time.

>> he never apologized, just like al sharp torngs you thought he was going to apaleyes, he never did. >> i brought you from ob skurpty? role call. yeah, thank you so much for that. >> jim, aren't you glad you came up to new york? >> it's on, man. >> that's pretty col. call your wife this morning? >> not yet. she will be jacquied. i will be like dad of the month. >> all right, jim. >> bring your kid to work in new york. >> your lead story on the site this morning. john bohner's end game. you talk about how he's slowly, modestly, winning favor with hard loin conservatives in his own caucus. >> i think that's the darnedest things now, all the conservatives who don't like him or trust him are the ones singing his praises, because he's taking this hard len approach. i simply do not believe he will allow default to happen.

i think he is saying the things that he's saying balls he knows at the end of the day, he's going to have to lift the debt limit. this is a guy who has a business background who gets a ton of money from business, i cannot imagine that he's going to allow it to happen. in private, he keeps telling people, i got your back, i got a plan. nobody believes him he has a plan. they're just hoping some kind of idea materializes between now and catastrophe that gives him a plan to be had. there is not ap obvious on obvi there, folks. >> we have seen this a million times. there is a community that talks to republicans and democrats, it's like a jedi mind trick, you will not allow the government to default. they go out and make a dome. it hams time and time again. >> well the only thing that's different, i think the republican party is much more responsive, now they are much

more responsive to the grass roots. i don't care, john boehner does. >> if jaemtd jaemd diamond says, listen, you can vote against it. put a clean up or down vote on the floor. john bohner is not going to say no to. he keeps saying he will no to that. i think sadly it's a solution, let's give it another month and come up with a grand bargain. there is no grand bargain to be had. a grand bargain was last december when you didn't have the tax increase kicking in. remember, there were going to be tax increases no matter what. there was leverage to accept tax enkrosses to get the entitlement reform. republicans will fight raise taxes to get tax reform. they won't raise defense funds held in sequestration. so there is not a grand bargain

to be had. i think in john bohner's dreams. >> jim, there is a consequence of. this people at home might be screw wall street. that's fine. >> wall street -- >> our business. >> it's about credit. >> if you like winning elections, you got to worry about people that run the american economy f. they figure out that it's more economically stable to support democrats running the house, they will pile money in democrat's districts and it will make a district. this does make a difference at the end of the day on whether republicans hold onto the house or whether they win the senate, whether they when the white house. >> who gets credit? big rich international companies gets credit. small and mid-size businesses. somehow this has become jamie diamond's issue. i wish target should say something. small business should be saying something. the fact that it's not mane stream is ridiculous. the poem that get hurt are never the ibms, goggle doesn't get

hurt, apple doesn't get hurt. those companies collectively have trillions of dollars. it's the little dpoi who can't get enventory for christmas. hats who goes under. why can't the president eblgs plain that better. >> you were talking about the debt don'ters being bloggers. there is a lot of member was are now going on record saying, no, this is all media hype. it's not going to be that bad. we can stack our payments in a logical way. >> let's do social security and the debt t. rest of the stuff, we can hold off. >> we can hold off? what are we going to hold off, on medicare? what are we going to hold off on? 60 billion goes out, 60 billion comes in. what do we do? maybe we pay army, not navy, how about air pors? >> so these debt don'ters, the math is 60 goes out. >> why do we borrow? why do we take this money from

the chinese and japanese? because we can't fund it ourselves. what happened in known 60 in the united states said if you don't pull out of the suez canal, we will still your sterling. what happened to the united kingdom? what happened to pound sterling? this is how we afford the debt. we're the reserve currency. you take that away, what are they doing jack up of rates? companies have to borrow in this country. not companies that can borrow in ireland and borrow in u.k. and germany and france. you are a little drug store, let me call them back? >> it's the small business owners that get hurt. >> they don't get howard. it's always jamie died. hemodo fi he'll do fine. >> okay. we got him mad there thank you, jim. >> and jim, jr.. >> and jim, jr. he is adorable.

>> he is a good man. a year after finishing in last place in the a.l. east, the boston red sox are back in the alcs. we'll show you their game four against the rays, sports is next. ♪

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>> mike allen spotted, soccer prodigy james vavendehy gets fist pump and top of the politico playbook. >> are you reading? >> wow, that's huge. >> i retweeted. >> with that, do you like your dad? what kind of question? >> that's hard hitting journalism. i thought you asked tough questions yesterday. >> man, that's a good one. >> he was adorable. >> red sox-rays game four, tied game, 7th inning, shane victorino for the sox at the plate with a man on 3rd. >> victorino broken back, long run for escobar, he has to

throw. out of time. the red sox have taken the load. >> single infield, still has it, still love playing philly. >> i love the way el berry gets to 3rd. there was a passed bauchl he went from 1st to 3rd on that. >> then scored. >> he made that happen. the last out of the game. boston wins 3-1. they move into the alcs a year after finishing in last place. they will now play four games away from the world series a major story. >> it is a major story. it is a team you like to watch. >> guys who love to play. they won't play for nothing. you feel like they would. >> compare that to $250 million of super stars they played last 84. these guys are playing well. >> a bunch of kids, ped royia,

it's a fun team. they'll play either the as or the tigers. game four of the alds in detroit, oakland up 3-0 in the 5th. oakland johnny peralta. >> peralta hits it to left field. it's going back, on the track, leaps. it's gone a. three run home run ties the game for the tigers with one swing of the bat. >> that was about six inches of being caught over the wall, ties the game. 3-3. detroit's victor martinez, solo home run to right field. check this out, martinez seems le like he got help from the fans. game tied at 4. tigers take a 1-1 lead later in the inning. a pivotal moment, a bases loaded

jam with no outs, 39,000 hometown fans looking on. here's how it unfolded. >> a swing and a miss and a near strikeout for scherzer. he leans it to 2nd, on the run, he'll get there. scherzer is out of a jam. >> wow, bases loaded, no outs. >> they come back and when is this series, watch out. watch out for detroit. >> tigers when 8-6. they have a game five on thursday back in oakland. they try out justin berlander. so the right to play the sox. steve cole joins us for a must read opinion pages. we'll be right back.

>> a live look at capitol hill. stop it. >> we are reading some of the dumber tweets of the morning. there is one great one. >> okay. >> this is from len da lee. she said i hopepy very republican mom is watching. morning, mika, in saint john wear. she would be very welcome at the country club. linda, it looks like saint john wear. >> okay. here with us now, the dean of columbia university school of journalism. i got my mug and staff writer of "the new yorker" steve cole, it was wonderful to speak at jay's school yesterday. thank you so much for having us. >> you lit them up. did you see them women in len to talk to mika?

they encircled lou wis? i was like playing jacks. >> they were having both of us. really appreciate it. >> lewis? >> you were great. >> louis was a beg hit. you made a big impression on people. >> it is. quite a message. let's get to the must reads. i picked this one. this is actually a letter to the editor. tell me, if anyone at this table disagrees with this. sam stein in washington as well. the affordable care act, ratified by duly elected representatives of the american people, signed into law by our now twice-elected president, and upheld by the supreme court is now the law of the land. yet, they want to kill this statute by whatever means necessary. the government shutdown and

their conspirators reflects a contempt for our democratic process and constitutes a complete ab rogation of their responsibility to support and defend the constitution. >> you asked. i will answer. i disagree with every part of it. the madisonian answer to this is vote out f. everybody announces a representative, vote them out. that's what madison would say. >> vote it out. yeah, i mean, we can disagree about whether this should be happening. >> and whether this president should be set. >> it's not. >> there is a precedent. >> really? >> yeah the southern democratic caucus 20th century stops civil rights legislation. >> 30 years. this has happened before. let me ask you, here is a question a lot of democrats are asking, republicans will ask it another time. how does a journalist take an issue like this and not engage

in false equivalency and say, well, on the one hand this, on the other -- what do you teach your students? zp . >> i think you have to look below the surface of the news and that takes you past the false equivalency of the news of the day t. madison yan proposition, how do we account for redistricting as a source in the house caucus, i think in the last election a million more votes were cast for the house than republicans, we still have a solid majority. that's a result of the census and the republican control of the safehouses led to safer districts. the senate caucus in the south during the civil rights era was the function of the role of the senate. the fact that you could bring two senators out of every state.

we sut up the equivalent of those safe zones for the republican party. >> they have. do you think, therefore, it's unconstitutional for them to do it? >> no, i think it's a part of the structure of the crisis that we have, that this sort of system is not responsive to the popular vote that raises questions about whether we got a redistricting system, a census system working in the way the cons stougs was designed? >> what do you think before we go? because we got such great questions from students last night. what do you think as you spent many years as a working journalist yourself and you have written books and -- >> won pulitzers. >> unlike meacham, he didn't have anybody taking a picture. >> that didn't happen in steve cole's house, that's true. what do you think the bigger challenges are going to be for them? >> i think louis signaled it.

you are working in newsrooms. you have to have lots of skills. have you to be able to use a camera, use social media, do all of that reporting deeply and thinking critically about these complicated subjects. it's a lot to ask of a 27-year-old to learn multiple skills and how to think and report at the same time. >> hold on, alex had a question. you want to ask that on the air? >> are you talking about louis bergdorf? i think the pulitzer committee wants their prize back. >> oh, oh. >> so for people not listening, phil griffin will say lou who we make fun of is the future of news. louis will go out, film it, do the interview. he will edit it. he will write it. i mean. >> that's what you got to sort of be a one-man band now, whereas before, you know, when you were growing up in the business. >> there were layers of

protection, editorial. >> two cameramen, all the guys. >> they all collaborated. >> it benefits not just the business, it benefits you, on top of that, you can write. if you can write your own stuff and shoot it and put it together yourself, you are more valuable than five people to do that from a business point of view, looking at it cynically, it's easy to have one person to do that. >> steve cole, good luck launching these people no the world of journalism. >> come back with you can. still ahead, we will talk to an emmy award actress, sela ward, helping parents teaching their kids how to manage money. and in a few minutes, walter isaacson joins the table. more "morning joe" when we come back. la's known definitely for its traffic,

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. >> coming up next, chuck todd will join us, sam stein the proper way to ask the president a question. >> oh, wow. >> i can't read? >> no. >> i mean -- >> it's a faux pas. walter isaacson is here as well as msnbc's alex wagner.

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>> we're $30 trillion in the hole, plus another 17 trillion in debt. wouldn't it be smart if we started addressing that problem before we blankly give an increase in the level of credit ard? actually, what we should do, we should cut this credit card up, which is what i'm going to do, because that's the way i vote. i think it's time we quit borrowing money actually, i

think i will tear it up. it's time we quit borrowing money against the future of our kids. it's time we quit mortgageing their future. >> you know, he's a great law maker, womanly geist, in my opinion. as far as the props go. >> no edward says soreshands. >> i see the scissors going out. i know it's going to end badly. >> cut up. >> get it straight down or cut up. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the president of the aspen instit e institute. >> tear it up. >> the host of msnbc's "now," adam wagner and sam stein. we like sam. >> following up, some republicans, my party is saying,

we can evolve. in fact the "wall street journal" has a story written about this. you know what, if budget office seles you actually, if you don't increase it, you may have money for a week or two, then we will not be able to fund say more than 70% of our government. so, great, you will not get veteran benefits, no social security payments, people will stop getting medicare checks. this is badly. >> cramer said it, there is a date, november the 1st. it's a friday. it comes up, we will owe 30 to $50 billion on social security payments, civil service retirees. there is a big bill that comes due. we don't have the money to pay it. >> i always blamed liberals accused liberals of being debt deniers. really, you say republicans don't like skievenlts liberal

economists don't like math. i have always gone after recruitment, now, some republicans, walter, that are debt deniers. they're in paul crudman's campaign. >> oh, wow. >> seriously, they're denying simple path. >> to be clear, are you not supposed to question the full credit of the united states, whether it's late october or november 1st, you don't want to be playing games like that. the problem is we sort of tried a lot. everybody said the sequester would be the end of the world. it wasn't the end of the world. everybody said the shutdown would be the end of the world. it's bad the shutdown is not the end of the world, people are still getting nobel prizes. >> that's a good thing. >> worry discovering the hedge particle, all the things that really matter. but the default on the debt, that is a beg dole. >> the default is a big thing. alex, this article talks about

the united states getting scolded. the chinese, as cramer said, usually kind of quiet about these things. dope stick their noses out publicly too far, they said, you guys got to get yourself together. >> they own dlb 2 trillion of debt t. president was saying, is this helping china in is this a good thing for america on the global stage? i think this is happening for two reasons, one, people like ted yoho who are recklessly ignorant saying in my veterinarian business, we dealt with it there. the united states is not a veterinary business. the more insidious master plan, some people in the fractious raucous caucus in the house won like to see the government fall apart and sort of piecemeal put it back together. >> that way this government shutdown worked really well for them. >> i will say what has worked

well for them, mika, president obama i think made a horrible miscal claegs. he basically said planes will fall out of the sky, old people are going to like suffer, kids are going to be starving in the streets and they kept whipping up a frenzy. it never came. same thing with the government shutdown, some people are suffering, really suffering, but most voters aren't going to experience that suffering. >> it's a tricky balance. >> but you did get, like you said, though, talk about defaulting on our debt. guess what, the international markets are going to reverberate with that impact. it will end up hurting small business owners and people living on main street. >> you know, he probably should have said, okay, this is surreal and social security checks will stop coming out, things like. that because whenry sort of piecemeal stitch it together, make people say maybe we can

muddle through on these things. you made a good point about china. china never medments in the internal affairs of other countries. it is a part of her to dna. now they're do iing. >> we want to go to chuck todd. there is a lot of confusion about the debt ceiling. a brand-new national journal poll believe 62% believe, they are increasing the amount of money borrowed for future expenditures. just 28% said it was to pay off debts we already accumulated. 47% said it's essential the debt limit be raised to avoid a financial crisis. 39% said the country can go past the deadline without major financial problems and as far as who americans trust more in the debt ceiling debate, less than 40% says congressional republicans. >> is chuck here yet? >> yes, he is. >> chuck, those numbers are

still really close. if i'm at the white house, again, i can't, i'm just talking about the political realities here. there are no moral equivalency. if i'm inside the white house, i'm a republican president, let's say, and a democratic congress is doing this, and my numbers are that close to the democratic congress and i know all those democratic congressmen acting in a rational way will get re-eleblged. i'm sitting inside the white house going, pan, they can stick at this longer than i can. this has to be concerning for people inside the white house. these snipers. >> well, it depends if you have the experience they had in 2011. it depends if you had the experience they had in 2012. i think they view it as if this were an isolation, joe, this was the first time they were having a confrontation, i think the political reaction you are assuming the white house would have would be probably the reaction they'd be having. because of there's experience, because they're not running for

re-election so there is a little bit of freedom in their own, that they feel in this, they don't feel the pressure. i keep reminding folks the biggest difference between 2011 and bill clinton in 95, re-election was staring obama in the face in 2011. clinton in the face in '95, at the end of the day, that was a motivating factor to maybe give more on their positions than they wanted to give at that time. this is why this one is different. >> if this goes on two or three weeks the republican's approval rating goes down to 3%, let's say the president's goes down to 35%, is he going to be fine with that, sit there and be cool and fine what w that? given george w. bush territory? >> i think they feel they will lose the race to the bottom in that scenario, that the republicans will hit bottom before they hit bottom, before

they feel they have to cry uncle. so, no, i think that's their mindset here is that they're not going to lose faith, the public's faith as fast as republicans are and i think you've seen the polling play out that way. >> i have a question, you talked a little about this yesterday, in terms of the legislative toolbox the republicans i think have been pretty shrewd in constantly fuvending these funding bills, now there is a committee to talk about a resolution herewhile that may be political theater or legitimately rounded in the desire to goerkts it appears they are being quote/unquote reasonable t. democrats in the senate have not used any of those mechanisms to further their talking points. do you think we reap a point where they are going to the legislative toolbox on the part of the senate democrats? >> it will be interesting to do

that. they will try to recruit a dozen republicans so it's a bipartisan show of force or does he force the one year clean cr. it ends up being a vote i think there is a chance you will see that. you want to talk about kubuki theater, yesterday, rhetorically, it looked like an awful day in the standoff t. president beating up the republicans. boehner calling what i think is a fairly reasonable compromised proposal here the idea of a six to eight week delay that everything is clean. bohner called that unconditional surrender, you are thinking, oh, boy, this is never going to en. paul ryan in an oh-ed today talking about look at all the stuff we agree on, entitlements, things like that. you got them talking about these weird legislative ideas. the fact is, bohner is trying to move the house republicans away from health care. >> that is a significant shift that tells you he is trying to

find a way out of this. does he get will? do the house conservatives ae lou it? does aaron eric sorn allow it? does he light himself on fire? i don't know. but i think they're moving. >> did ted cruz say this was about obama care? >> it used to be. >> that's so -- joe, that's so last week. >> i'm so couldn't fuconfused. >> paul ryan's op-ed piece, obama care doesn't appear in it at all. it is a pathway out for both sides. >> and, by the way, paul ryan thought this was a stupid idea. here we go, by the way, charles -- this was a stupid idea. scott walker thought this was a stupid idea. exactly, chris christie thought it was a stupid idea. basically the future leaders of the republican party thought this was a stupid idea. 2016, i germany tee you all of

these people engaging in sound and furry situation fifying nothing, they will be eclipsed be i the chris christies and the scott walkers and the john casics and the republican governors out there, the bobbyin dams, the people talking about the stupid when of the republican party -- bobby jindals, the people talking about the stupid wing of the republican party. >> it's a calculated move, this is a first for a guy whose career is centering around the budget the core of all this. he has been silent. >> the timing is good. >> he has been smart. >> what is interesting about that op-ed at the end he says this is not a grand bargain. he knows the phrase grand bargain has been so sold. both sides are not willing to take up that mantle again. >> do you think president obama will invite him over, maybe for

tea? >> at this point i'd like to see president obama invite anybody over for a breath of fresh air. >> sam, speaker boehner knows there is not going to be a grand bargain by october 17th. that's not going to happen. the president hasn't shown willingness to move. what happens at midnight on october 16th with the debt ceiling looming, what does john bohner do? does he walk away with nothing after all this fight he's put up in. >> that's the $100 million question. the convention ams with dom was that he would buckle under the pressure. that was there, the convention wasn't prior to a government shutdown. if you look at it from obama's perspective, john boehner earlier said we have an agreement on a clean cr. then i realized obama care was an existential threat. so i added it on.

shouldn't we go back to the clean cr they proposal agreed to? that's where the white house is. bohner has a tough path here. walter made the good point in paul ryan's op-ed, obama care wasn't mentioned. you know who else made that point? ted cruz's communication, on twitter this morning. even if they go towards this paul roin path. >> wait, tell us what is communication -- >> they said there is a word missing from paul ryan's op-ed. it begins with the letter o and ends with bama care. >> a rhino. clearly is a rhino. >> boehner has to balance that portion of his party. so does mitch mcconnell, frankly, when they examine any of this stuff. >> chuck, how does it go down? it looks like the ted cruz faction is going to be standing in front of a steaming train,

political train going straight for them. because republicans are going to go back to what republicans should worry about, debt and jobs and this political gimmick to raise money and raise names will be washed aside. we will get back to business, number one, debt and jobs. >> well, i think what we will see is i think what boehner is trying to come up with, he still doesn't want to pass anything that's clean, but they're trying to come up. you saw yesterday they floated the idea of forcing super committee 2 on us, superman 2 wasn't a great sequel. i doubt superman 2 committee will be. the fact is, they're trying to come up with they call it a sidecar approach, but something that will be passed with it, you could feel that bohner is floating different ideas in the next four or five days, you got to feel he will come up with something. it will be processing, what he does is force the negotiation t. question, though, is, how does

the conservative grass roots group, heritage action, erick erickson, how do they hand him this when it happens, is it a -- you got eric eric zorn railing against ron johnson, upset he has been railing ted cruz on a specific issue. how does this play itself out? does mitch mcconnell become a pin ata? you see the incumbents if 2014, revenge of the grass roots, us that by a will feel the republican elites dropped the ball on health care. >> i think that's the unknown here. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. walter, alex, stay with us if you can. still ahead, he was there for the last budget standoff in 1995, congressman mark sanford jones us straight ahead. also, former white house official melly barnes will be here. up next, members of the

senate republican committee, pat toomey joins us. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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>> welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at capitol hill, blue skies in washington. here with us now from capitol hill, republican senator from pennsylvania senator pat toomey. senator, god to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning, guys. it's nice to be back with you. >> so what's the best way to end this thing without raising the debt krolling, with or without defaulting, how do we do that? >> first of all, there is zero chance the u.s. will default on its dent it's unfortunate, people have not completed this idea of this debt ceiling without defaulting on our debt. we bring in tax ref few 12 times as much money to pay our interest on our debt. there is no way any treasury

secretary or administration would willfully choose to have the catastrophic defaults occur when it's not necessary. so this is pretty well understood in financial circles. you see treasury provides have barely moved. i have legislation that would codify and formalize the obligation to make sure under no circumstances we would default on our debt. interestingly, the white house threatened to veto it precisely because they want to be able to hold the specter of a catastrophe in front of republicans to tell us and intimidate us into giving the president what he wants, which is a whole lot of additional borrowing authority with no reforms whatsoever. i think that's irresponsible. >> i can't agree with you, joe is coming to set. alex, you want to join us? >> i think before we talk about the white house cowing anyone, i

would like to get your lobbies to collapse to the u.s. it seems and sounds like there are a lot of people in the senate, not just the ted yohos. i use my time on television to say ted yoho. richard burr, people who are not rowdy members of congress, are not speak income terms, and suggesting it's not all that bad. >> i haven't heard any of my republican colleagues to suggest it may be okay to default on our debt. what is totally unacceptable is for the president to think he should be the first president in modern times not to have to address our overspending problem that's causing the need for all this debt in the first place, ronald reagan addressed it, george bush did, bill clinton repeatedly, george w. bush. this is a part of the process of getting spending under control, solve, our deficit problem and this president thinks it

shouldn't apply to him. he refuses to negotiate and wants more borrowing authority after he's added more debt to our balance sheet than any other property. >> aren't these the levels republicans wanted months ago? i think he's negotiating. >> what would you say to the argument that republicans are trying to relitigate the health care bill instead of address the fiscal issues, accepting health care is a huge driver in all this? you all are pushing something that has been passed that has been litigated to the supreme court. >> well, first of all, no action of congress finds future congresss. to think a bill passes and forever thereafter we have to find it immunable. could we acknowledge there are maybe some flaws? how about the medical device tax? 79 senators voted to repeal it,

including two-thirds of all democratic senators. that's not controversy i think that could frankly be one of the ways out of this mess. i never thought we would completely defund obama care. we can't even address some of the flagrant flaws? i think that's unreasonable. >> the senate, now that you said you will defund obama care, what did you think of the paul rain op-ed piece in the "wall street journal"'d? did you sign on to something like that. >> i didn't have a chance to read it. if paul ryan wrote it, i will read it. i am locking period to it. lock, i think we should be very flexible. we have been about what measures we take to get spending under control, get these deficits under control. i have suggested among other things, we could lock at the modest reforms the president has put in his own budget in professor years t. white house is saying, no, we will mot have

any such negotiation until you give us the borrowing authority and spending authority, then we'll have a conversation. that will load nowhere. >> the president is giving the sigh len treatment. it could be a break through to break the deadlock, both sides should agree to reforms in the entitlement programs and tax code. this isn't a grand bargain, for that, we need a rethinking for government's approach of helping the most vulnerable and a comploet rethinking of government's approach to health care. . >> this is our moment. >> so, pat toomey, if a deal

puts forth the ideas you and i have been talking about ten, 15 years. >> right. >> it's not going to defund obama care. it may not delay obama care. if we can get common sense entitlement reforms and tax reforms, isn't that a big win for the republicans? especially when we keep the funding at our levels? >> well, remember, the funding, this isn't a massive concession on the part of the democrats t. funding levels have been signed into law two years ago. look, i agree with your central premise, what year trying to do is get on a sustainable fiscal path. the big entitlement programs are clearly the structural programs. i have been spending years trying to find a way to get somebody on the other pseudoto work with us on this. i think anywhere we can start and make real progress, it would be real important. >> senator pat toomey, thank you

so much. walter isaacson, thank you as well. alex wachner, whole see you at noon on msnbc's "now." >> the question is you have to have some really great guests. >> joe, i have a question, i want you to address, do you think when paul ryan wrote that piece today he floated it by speaker boner, it was more coordinated? . >> i don't think it was coordinated by john boehner, they have shoulder to shoulder. >> so he knew about this piece, probably? if you had wrint and were a budget chair, would you have written it in. >> things are a lot crazier today. paul ryan, i'm sure he talked to the speaker about this. i'm sure the speaker would love anyway out possible. and this really goes to our republican brand, which is,

let's worry about the debt. let worry about the entitlement crisis, let's save social security. let's save social security. that's our wheelhouse, that's how we win election, not by shutting down the go. and not by possibly causing a default. so i think it's great for the republican party. >> still ahead, they're working lon hours without pay. we're not talking about the federal workers. the debate over why the ncaa refuses to pay college athletes? we'll talk to the film makers in a new documentary straight ahead. we'll be right back. at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires?

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'80s an emmy award actress and alumnist sela ward. we will be talking to the makers of a new documentary that tackles that topic, the president of the nfl player's association, dominique foxworth and director andrew muscada when we come back on "morning joe." helicopthierhis hibuzzing, andk engine humming.

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>> it's a scheme to keep kids quiet. >> schools the price of college sports the big business of college football an basketball, joining us now, one of the producers, the president of the nfl player's association the film's director, brian chatman at the table as well. this looks terrific, really revealing is there thank you so much for having us. >> what specifically, we talked about this with the "time" magazine piece a couple weeks ago, in this broad discussion about whether we should pay them or not. >> i think it's somewhat distracting when we talk about playing them. it's about the players getting the rights they deserve. so i would be disappointed if they paid the players without giving them a voice. it looks good for the presidents of the universities and ncaa from the top down. it doesn't look good from the bottom up if you are a player. >> to me that is the issue not

talked about enough, joe, we talk about those who made millions of dollars, what about that division i schp athlete who plays four years and doesn't go pro and has that career, that's where any modem that's created. you can change a person. >> you really can. i have been an alabama fan for decades, there are always these guy the freshmen and sophomore years that are super stars, five years later, someone said, did you hear, so and so is working in a piggly-wiggly? >> there are athletes and current athletes who say they suffers thee terrible injuries and had to live with them the rest of their lives. no one is paying their medical costs. >> i was fortunate to have an nfl career and move on. it's a ridiculous minute percentage of people able to do that. >> what are the pitfalls of

paying the atmosphere lotz? if it were easy, this would not be an issue? >> it lies in incentives. there is no incentive to make sure the atmospherelights are taken care of. so athletes don't have power or a voice in the process. the people with the power, if you run a business, which essentially they are, in this case, they don't have to pay them anything. >> mika, you always talked about mcdonald's and how much they are making, i disagree with you, but the ncaa makes $12 billion a year, more of a profit tan mcdonald's or chevron or so many other massive corporations and they don't pay their players. >> the rate of growth of the college industry has grown exponentially. the point of this film was to dig doper and show people how this system works and how these

athletes entertaining us every weekend don't have any rights. >> hold on a second, they're getting a scholarship. my kid is not getting a scholarship. >> they're getting a scholarship. they got the opportunity to go to class to learn if they want to. >> they do have an opportunity. it's back to incentives. it was extremely discounted. the incentive for the player is to play well t. same for the coach the incentive for the university is to win games a. lot of players, from is no one pushing you. i remember circling the majors and my adviser broke out a list of majors that were realistic. that's what i money having a discount. academic experience. several thursday notice games in georgia. so you miss class on wednesday, on thursday, on friday is there that's not right. but i mean, it's funnily, they

put student first. it's obvious all incentives lie with an athlete who has to go to class. >> it's interesting, i missed a lot of wednesday, thursday, friday classes, i didn't even pay football. samstone. >> efor theing the critics are paying, athletes say it could be corruption. has anyone proposed the idea of setting up es kro accounts? money that are will for students, once they graduate, academically that, they will be paid. it just one happen in laterally time? >> i think call eight gateway to corruption. hilarious this system is already corrupt. they force them to abody by rules that cannot be measured or followed and they're unjust. so i'm not sure, one of the things that upsets me about this debate is people like to focus on, should they be paid or not paid? throwing money at the problem is a pacifier. the real problem is the players

don't have a voice in the process. >> that could change a. lot of people think there is a sort of an unspoken movement to get rid of the ncaa because some of these schools and conferences are more powerful. maybe the ncaa will be forced to do something. even the pac-10 commissioner came on and said if you don't want college, you have a path to go try to get to the pros, if that's your choice to do. >> these kids you were talking yesterday about the kinetic force of the nfl, how violent it is. take a guys, my default is the university of alabama, made the catch of the year the prior year against florida. he snaps his leg in half. he went from a 1st or 2nd round draft pick to a guy who now he's a bank teller last i heard in tuscaloosa. what happens to him next? what happens to his health? this guy helped make my university millions and millions

of dollars. there needs to be a trust fund to take care of these kids. >> these universities, their priority is education. most of the athletes are concerned with going to the next level of the nba, after they finish playing, they would appreciate that education even more. >> i can't underscore, how many of them think they will go pro? they all think they're going pro, every one of them. >> the schools the price of -- >> like every senator thinks they will be president. >> premiers on the channel epics. it looks really riveting. emmy award winning actress sela ward is here. she wants to teach kids how to spend money online. it's educational. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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what do you wish for? you know, when you see a shooting star or find an eyelash or you say toss a penny into a fountain? >> for my kids to be all right,

of course. for alabama to win another bcs championship. >> very good ones. most people wish for money. >> not if you spend four years in tuscaloosa. >> that stole joe's house. that was the scene showing off her roots and the actress, university offal bama alum joins us now. she is a member of the board of advisers for virtual piggy and e commerce solution that helps kids manage money with the help of her parents. she has the shelter for children and i admired her and thought she was perfect. i am looking in her back and she was homecoming queen and a cheerleader. seriously? >> look at that. >> hasn't changed a bit. amazing.

>> they are all the same. isn't that something. >> she has a lot of questions for i think you. for us. turn the tables. >> every time you meet a fellow person from alabama. >> how did you get here? >> i took the greyhound and bought a plane ticket. >> where were you a congressman? >> florida, but thank you for following my career. i was from the riviera, northwest florida. pensacola. about 3 1/2 hours from tuscaloosa. >> that makes sense. >> deep south. it's all southern roots. you necessary mississippi, obviously. i lived there for about five years and you have done great

things. we will talk about virtual figure. we all have kids who are gutting our bank account. >> atms. >> talk about what you have done. >> this is wonderful. >> i don't know what it is. that sense of community and belonging stuck with me my whole life. i lived in new york and i lived in los angeles and i keep going back there and giving back there because as cliche as it sounds, that part of the world give so much to me. i started a home for abused andy in neglected kids. that's my passion project there. so desperately needed. >> it's great. >> it must help a lot of kids. that's great. >> you have connections all over the south. you have something in common with me.

>> my cousin was the first e-mail admitted. >> everybody in the south knows everybody. that's right. wait a second. what are you talking about? >> brothers and sisters. >> we are all related. >> virtual piggy. >> i'm on the board of advisers to this company because when my kids were younger i wanted to find something to help them be financially literate. i had business managers handle my money. still to this day i am trying to empower myself as a woman and not rely on the business manager. when i found out about this, i went this is fantastic. children have a safe space online protected to manage their money. the parents control it and give

use of the money and decide stores you may shop in or not. the child is able to spend his money, save his money and gave money to charity. as early as 6 years old if you wanted to, but it's more like 11 or 15 where kids understand what they are doing. you are putting all the components into their brain and they see it in front of them. i will give $10 this month to kids helping kids or the animal shelter. they get the experience of giving back to themselves in spending money and saving money. >> it makes that connection between when we were growing up and money was cash and you put it in and now it's a plastic card and money comes out and where it's online, they don't really see the levels.

>> it's not like they have a checkbook and they deposited 100 and they have $40 left. now they have this total because i spent at clair's. i only have $30 left. they see it like having a checkbook. >> does it cost? >> it's absolutely free. >> i'm a 7-year-old and i have been talking about taking her to the bank and seth up a bank account. do you skip that? >> you skip that phase. >> she doesn't even know about the bank and pennies. go to the virtual world. >> 7. >> you won't be able to open up a bank account for her. she can't open up an account for her until she is 15 or something. this is why i was so impressed

with this. because there is no other venue for them to be financially literate. >> to work with the computer and conceptualize monoline. it's brilliant. >> i'm taking my son to an ole miss game and his frat brothers from the university of pennsylvania this weekend. that should be interesting. >> i actually went to the homecoming last year because i always wanted to go there. there is curtis wilke. i promised kurt we would take the showdown and we had a great time. my son who is a university of alabama graduate. my son who gets upset when i do a hash tag. it's hard not to cheer for ole miss. they will have a great time. >> they will have a fabulous

time. that's an awesome city. >> it is. >> thank you. >> thank you for coming. appreciate it. >> a chance to get involved with the conversation online. if you have a question for sela, tweet us now. #mojo. watch afternoon mojo@msnbc.com to find out which of your questions have been answered. stay with us. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp. losing thrusters. i need more power. give me more power! [ mainframe ] located. ge deep-sea fuel technology.

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. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 on the west coast. get out of bed. >> jim cramer is here and in washington, sam stein. >> we will get to the government shut down and where everything stands at this point. >> the president gave a little bit yesterday. >> no, i don't think so. >> he was in the corner weeping.

give a couple weeks of extension for you guys to figure out how to save yourself. >> they have to remember who owns it. john stewart is on course. >> he came to him back in july and offered to pass a clean government funding resolution, no obama care amendment that was below what they wanted and they accepted and you reneged on the offer. >> there was a conversation about doing it. >> it was a clean resolution. >> i decided that the threat of obama care and what was happening was so important there was time for us to take a stand and we took it. >> did you [ bleep ] hear that? can we stop having a conversation about it? they had a deal. but no obama care!

we decided to take a stand. you think obama care is a big enough threat to shut down the government over it? fine. own it. don't far and point at the dog. >> i like that. >> you all are laughing. >> what do you want to do here. >> go through with it. i'm going to the first lady's lunch. i'm a republican. i'm going to put a lot more hair spray in and faun all over you. >> first lady? >> you came in here to make fun of me. i look like a republican. >> you do. we have a look at that.

the president trying to give to republicans and all. they are trying to make something happen in that long event the other day and somebody has got to do something to use the dime and if the president will do that, that's what we do. >> the president called to reiterate he will not negotiate with republicans and the debt ceiling is raised. both spoke about the crisis later in the afternoon. >> the american people do not get to demand a ransom for doing their job. you don't get a chance to call your bank and say i am not going to pay my mortgage unless you throw in a new car and an xbox. for them to crash the economy and you don't agree to gun background checks and immigration reform. republicans would not think it's appropriate. we can't make extortion part of

our democracy. we don't function this way. the american people are tired of it. i apologize that you have to go through this every three months it seems like and lord knows i'm tired of it. >> there is going to be a negotiation here. at times like this the american people expect their leader to have a conversation. the president said if there is unconditional surrender by republicans, he will sit down and talk to us. that's not the way our government works. >> the house passed a bill to make sure they are paid on time and make sure the bill creates a bipartisan negotiating people between the house and the senate to work on the debt limit, but they rejected another super committee. democrats are moving forward with a clean debt ceiling increase. looking to shore up republican support to bypass the

filibuster. they would raise the debt ceiling through september 2014. >> hearing some claims that we can have the default and it's not really his fault and america would be just fine if we didn't pass the debt ceiling increase. >> it's just not true. senator johnson represented barton and said we don't have enough money. why do we do these auctions? we don't have enough money. you have to come up and there will be a recession. >> why do they say it? >> because you can prioritize and say social cute and pay the debt and you have money to be able to do that. you have 100 billion until

november. it's a disaster. there is not a lot to it. the president reiterated the drop dead days. in the end, they're going in november 1st. >> hey, sam stein. basically the reporting we are hearing yesterday is that republicans may be open to a temporary raising of the debt ceiling on the condition that the president agreed to negotiate with them. if they do that, what would they be negotiating over the four to six weeks. what would they look for and since the president hasn't shown a lost willingness, why would they negotiate during that period? >> can you get 18 agreement to enter the negotiations and they seemed open to the short-term deal. john boehner said that's unconditional surrender. i'm not sure how close they are

to negotiate. if they were to make it into that place where they were talking and you didn't have a threat of the problems over our head, then the negotiation is somewhat there. paul ryan talked about how theoretically republicans could give in on they is questations to exchange for entitlement reform. paul ryan was attacked by thes enative conservative care for not going after obama care. that's the deal, roughly the small type deal that can take place. none of that will happen from the administration's perspective unless you get refrom the default and the government shut down. >> then of course sam -- >> he asked a question. >> yes, he did. i would like to show that.

it's all right. we're proud. >> sam stein. >> thank you, mr. president. is speaker boehner holding a vote and what advice could you give to return and wandering back and how worried are you personally to get a solution to the sequestration may do harm to the nation? >> well, you are making an important point. >> yeah, you make an important point. that's the reason for the question. ever read the question from sam donaldson. >> i thought you would criticize the tire and it was the reading of the question. >> i didn't know i was not allowed to read off of my note pad. >> we have problems right now

that are direct results of the -- >> this is horrible. >> the bodies of four soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice will arrive later today and the family of sergeant patrick hawkins and the others will have to pay for their own way to delaware and pay out of their own pockets for the funeral because the pentagon said unable to pay out doubt sentences is because of the shut down. any service member killed since october 1st will not receive the automatic $100,000 it usually pays to families within 36 hours of a death or fun eral cost. >> it's shameful and embarrassing that america could fail the families of a fallen hero.

appalling, frightening. >> i don't care who it is or how it's shaped, but let's sit down and get out of this so that these families whose loved ones just died will receive the benefits at least that would give them comfort and solace in this terrible hour of tragedy. >> that are house is scheduled to vote to restore the payment. >> that's as low as it gets. >> it is as low as it gets. >> the update to that story called fisher house that it will pick up the tab now. this is a great country, better than the people who represent them in washington. they step up and will pay for the advance grants for the family's hotels and other incidentals. it is being picked up by the government. >> chris christie looks to get a

second term as governor. he locks to his challenger for the first gubernatorial debate. including kriscris presidential aspirations. >> i said i wouldn't and didn't. after 2007, i will be looking for a new job anyway. as we go forward, i will continue to do my job the best way i possibly can and i will not declare for you or anyone else. >> it doesn't bother me that you are running for president, it bothers me how. >> i can walk and chew gum at the same time. that's exactly what i will be. >> a recent poll has chris christie leading 64-30%. >> isn't it interesting, sam

stein, that most politicians will say i will do a denial or a non-denial denial. he said you know what i'm going to do? i'm going to run for president while i'm governor of new jersey. i will do both. what's it to you? >> i can walk and chew gum. i like the candidness, i guess. it's overstated how they react to politicians. every one has greater ambitions. they get that and chris christie appreciates that as well. he has this in the bag at 64-30. i'm not a mathematician. >> he lost a lot of weight. >> he and coach ryan. >> whatever race they are in.

they will be behind this guy. >> he's firm and he understands how to create jobs. people feel he has the pulse of the country and he's not an idea log. >> i don't think they matter in the least. i think chris christie is going to be even more popular with the business community not just on wall street to the west coast because he's triangulated. just like clinton against the liberal house democrats. it makes him stronger. >> his outsider status has never looked better than it does right now. he doesn't have to be asked to take shots at washington. that's not me, that's them. >> i would say that's a fact that a lot of republicans are

now questioning the significance there and embracing the notion. i can imagine that wall street sources people are going to be thrilled with having the guests defined in washington. someone like chris christie emerging in the party. >> hit hard by the government shut down and congressman mark sanford is standing by support of the house republican strategy. he joins us straight ahead. former white house director melanie barnes joins us. caught on camera, taking part in the biker attack. that is next on the morning papers. joining the table for another look at the political playbook. first a check on the forecast. >> good wednesday morning to you. 90 to 95% of the country has a

beautiful wednesday. the 5% is not happy. this radar does not look good to you. it's a soaking cold rain. the winds are at 30 miles per hour. moving up the coast. even some of the areas near the potomac and washington, d.c. you will see the wet weather. enjoy whatever sunshine you get, because this will be the last time you see the sun until monday or tuesday of next week. that dreary weather lingers on the east coast through the upcoming weekend. southern california, this is the end of your dry season. three months since you have seen raindrops. we are predicting to get rape. only a couple tenths of an inch. the roads will be slippery so be careful there. coming home. are you in the middle of the country? enjoy it. how beautiful is that.

70s up to the canadian border. philadelphia, clouds moved in. leave the sunglasses. you will not need them for at least a week. you are watching "morning joe." ♪ [ male announcer ] may your lights always be green. [ tires screech ] ♪ [ beeping ] ♪ may you never be stuck behind a stinky truck. [ beeping ] ♪ may things always go your way. but it's good to be prepared... just in case they don't. toyota. let's go places, safely.

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>> nine? that's great. did i ever tell you about david mcintosh? how are doing? >> do you like your dad? >> you explain that.

>> wow. >> most of the time. >> thank you for coming. >> thanks for coming on the show today. we have to talk to your dad, but we would rather talk to you. thanks, cutie. >> look at that. james junior. >> how cute. >> you have to call mom. >> he's awesome. >> let's look at the morning papers. 200 people were arrested at an immigration rally near capitol hill including the eight democratic members of congress. among those arrested were john lewis, keith ellison. luis gutierrez and protesters are calling for an immigration reform bill that includes a path to citizenship. >> the "new york daily news," an

under cover detective will be charged with the road rage pep soed caught on camera in new york city. nbc new york confirms that an under cover officer crunches the suv and shatters a rear window. the ten-year veteran is charged with writing and criminal mischief. the cops are doing that? >> maybe that explains why they department come forward and why the others didn't. sacramento bee. furloughed government workers are back at work at the cdc after 300 cases of salmonella were reported. the outbreak may have originated at the foster farms chicken plant in california. >> the bell fast cetelegraph.

they can vote to have an unconditional income for $2800 a mopping for every adult living in the country. they called it a financial safety net and said it will be partially financed through the country's social instruments. >> wow. the l.a. times charges $1.18 milli million. she was filmed on surveillance stuffing lunch money in her bra. >> she got 1.8 million out of the school in her bra. >> stealing money over the course of a year as much as $3.16 million may be missing from the district? >> that's a lot of money to put in your bra. that is a big bra.

wow. >> "new york daily news," long distance swimmer diana nyad began here in new york. the 64-year-old is currently swimming a 48 hour mare none mid-town manhattan. it will benefit victims of super storm sandy. nyad will be joined by people in new york and new jersey. last month she became the first person to swim nonstop from cuba to key west without a shark cage. >> she is so cool. >> think about that. >> this horrible story written about me. totally false. and dave mcintosh, they conspired together. did he ever apologize for that? never apologized. you thought he was going to

apologize and never did. you thought jim would apologize for that. the roll call. thank you so much for that. aren't you going to give up to new york for that? >> yes. like the end of the month. >> you get one thing in new york. john boehner's end game and how you slowly, modestly win favorably conservatives in his own caucus. we have seen the conservatives who don't really like him or trust him are singing his praises because he is taking this hard line 3r5067. i do not believe he will be

allowed to fall back. he will have to lift the debt limit. he has a business background and gets a ton of money and costs them all the time. i cannot imagine he's going to allow it to happen. he tells people i have got your back and i have a plan. nobody believes he has a plan. they are hoping an idea materializes between now and catastrophe that gives him a plan. there is not an obvious one out there. >> we have seen this a million times. it's always in the business community that comes down. not only talks to republicans, but democrats. you will not allow the government to fall. we will not allow the government to fall. it happens time and time again. >> the only thing that's different is the republican party used to be more responsive. much more responsive to the grass roots. the rank and file members.

>> if jim diamond goes to john boehner and said you have need a clean up or down vote, you can vote against it. put a clean up or down vote on the floor, he will not say no to that. he keeps saying no, but i can't imagine there is not going to be some -- it will be an awful solution of let's give it another month. there is no grand bargain to be had. i can't emphasize that enough. when you didn't have that tax increase. there were tax increases no matter what. there was the leverage and capacity to get republicans to accept taxes and get the entitlement reform. republicans are not going to raise taxes to get entitlement reform. they are not going to get rid of the defense funds held in sequestration. there is not a grand bargain to be had.

>> jim, thanks. coming up next for the last government shut down, congress mark sanford joins us next. former director of the white house domestic policy counsel. melody barnes joins us. sfx: birds chirping.

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>> plus another $17 trillion in debt. wouldn't it be smart if we started addressing that problem before we blankly give an increase in level to credit cards? actually what we should do is cut this credit card up. which is what i'm going to do. that's the way i vote. it's time we quit borrowing mon money -- it's time we quit borrowing money against the future of our kids and put more into their future. >> sometimes you have to play it by ear. good point. >> joining us now from capitol hill, republican congressman from south carolina, representative mark sanford and

here on the set, former director of the white house domestic policy counsel and ceo of melanie barnes solution. do i look like a republican? >> you look lovely this morning. i turned on the and i was struck. >> this is how republicans look. from the lincoln day collection. you look lovely. mark sanford looks like a republican too. >> oh, yeah. >> they are talking about hey, you know what, let's talk about entitlement reforms and let's talk about tax reform and let's make a deal. the sort of things you and i have been talking about. >> it's a very good structure path. the math he laid out in the

"wall street journal" is compelling. it's about 15% of the time and the other 85% will be addressed and get our arms around the numbers. we have to deal with entitlement and tax policy. >> let's expand that out. everybody is always talking about we need to cut this and cut that. all the debates in washington is over discretionary domestic spending. it's like pre2008 levels. that's not going to save us. we are have to save social security, medicare, and medicaid for the long run. this is all a distraction. >> it is. it's real. it's other than a distraction these days and involves the impact of people's lives and

ultimately -- >> i'm talking budgets over the next 20 or 30 years. it's discreationary domestic spending. >> the question is how you get your arms around it. there has been a break down to the process in the time that you and i left congress. i have been gone for 13 years and the difference is stern. >> can you pause there for a second? you get people assigned to the committees and those bills would go to the floor. we have seen school house rock. we know how they become a bill. talk about the stark difference between how none of the old rules that sustained this country for 200 years apply anymore in congress. >> it's not just this congress. you look back over the last four or five years and the process is

broken down. the government is operating on what they called continued resolution and said let's take what we saved last year and spend it this year. if you are liberal, you say we want to operate well and it's a habit because the ones that are doing well don't get rewarded and thes that are not, don't get penalized. that's the way we operate now. back to the time we were in congress together, there 12 categories that make up spending in washington, d.c. and we have a food fight every year on how much we should or shouldn't be spending. i remember going down and you were a part of it. with tom coburn, we had 100 amendments and it lasts for participation by younger rank and file members. right now decision making can concept rate at the top of the

republican or democratic leadership and they don't get the voice as was the case when they were there last. >> what do you make of all this? >> absolutely. two things. one, i'm struck by the people calling for regular order have been blocking it all year long. it's a little bit like crying wolf. all of a sudden you want to go to negotiations and there is a super committee and we have done that. congressional committees that can kaer this out. what is perplexing to me is why do we want to question the public debt in order to get there? it seems like we are thumbing our nose at the constitution and holding that hostage to go to negotiations and it's striking that republicans who say that they believe in the constitution

are there. that is a perplexing matter when we need to get into a conversation with where we are as a country. >> i would say this. the past is prologued to agreeing to the politics. if you look since the mid-1970s, there have been 53 increases in the debt ceiling. if you look at the same time period, there have been 17 government shutdowns. in every one of the instances with the debt ceiling increase and government shutdowns with exception of a couple of years where a debt ceiling increase was based on whatever the budget was set, with that one exception, 100% of the time with no exception there has always been negotiations between the president, the senate, and the house in these matters. what the approximate the is saying in this instance is let's step away from the precedent of how it has been done for the

last 35 years. >> congressman, the president has negotiated on these points over the last several years and now the country is being held hostage to a few members who say they love their country and don't want to stand up to this. >> six months is an eternity and the fact that he may have negotiated a deal he may not like a couple of years ago with budget agreement or an attempt in that direction, it is not -- no, they want to break it. the deal wants to come from the democrats he wants to lower -- >> he is honoring the deal set by the sequester. they want to pull back from that. >> i want a yes or no. >> i would say no. the impasse we are at right now

is based on a whole serious of different republican bills going-over that have been tabled. i think a great mistake that was done in the last shut down, you may remember the "time" magazine that said is the presidency relevant. in essence, newt gingrich and republicans overplayed the hand. i would argue that the democrats are overplaying their hand given the president's unwillingness to sit down at the table with john boehner. what happened six months or two years ago is not relevant to the crisis we are at and these were all free parties to sit down at the table and the need for harry reid and the president not to be dismissive of that. >> all that being said, bringing obama and the affordable health care act into this with the political cast on what could be a discussion about physical

discipline. what would you say to people who think you know what, there is a hard core group of people who believe that the affordable care act should not be part of the landscape and they are going to make their stand here. but that's really not a relevant question. >> i would go back to a speech we did months ago in gettysburg. gettysburg originated with a cavalry unit out looking for shoes and a battle ensued and neither believed that, but it was there. i think that there two issues here. in the on set, there was a nexus. what a lot of republicans questioned going to the clip of a few minutes ago was wait a minute. can we really afford another trillion dollar entitlement? normally if the budget process was working, we would have it during the appropriations.

because there is no budget between the house senate and the white house, it is left to the end which is where we are dealing with it. there is a nexus with regard to cost and the constitutional argument that was touched on. you have a bill and in this case the affordable care act which is signed off by the judiciary which you have a most unusual interpretation with the executive branch is choosing that. there is no cause being able to pick piece male. that would enforce the law and that is the case when all business is exempted from the law and individuals aren't. i think there is a constitutional question as well. that brought a number of republicans into the fight and saying wait a minute -- can you imagine president clinton or bush doing any of this? we wouldn't be having the debate. >> we wouldn't. >> we don't have a lot of time.

you do not take him at face value saying take care of these two elements, the shut down and the debt ceiling and we can talk about reform. you don't believe him? are. >> history is a degree of indicator. he spent five years in office and shows not. why is the political pressure indifferent over the next couple of weeks that we cannic it down the road? >> you talked about regular order, the house is at least four appropriation bills? >> absolutely. har hear harry reid passed zero appropriation bills. democrats are saying gee, republicans are talking about regular order now, why weren't they doing it from the go think? harry reid said that himself. the senate has not passed a single appropriations bill this year. >> it calls for a budget conference committee and republicans have stood up every

time and blocked that. it's not just here. there letters saying we can't go to conference on immigration. we don't want to do that. republicans don't top the do that. >> harry reid controls the senate. he appointed all the appropriations chair and they decided not to pass the bill like harry didn't want to pass a budget for four years. there is a much bigger problem on the culture in washington that changed radically since we were there 800 years ago. both sides are completely broken. it irritates me so much when harry reid is self righteous when he passed zero appropriations bills himself. that's all i have to say, mark. if you want to talk about north

carolina baseball we can. >> the contrast between this shut down and the last, to the credit of bill clinton, you department see open air memorials close down in washington. in south dakota, how people can view or not view mt. rush more. they have always been unmanned. the president is overplaying his hand in terms of trying to create political pressure by inconveniencing a large number of people or going to other spots that it involves federal properties. >> okay. >> all right. senator mark sanford, thank you. melanie, we will give you the last word and straight ahead we will have a five-year economic low the country just hit in business before the bell. jc: lunch at that one restaurant we all like?

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. let's go to brian sullivan. some news about consumer confidence. not good. >> not good at all. according to the gallup reading, drop in consumer confidence was the steepest in a weekly period since lehman brothers collapsed this 2008. they said how do you feel about the economy? the number fell the most since the crisis began with lehman. if you want to know about the imfact or how they feel about it, i saw the approval is what, 5%? they go hand in hand. look at the drop. >> that's a big one. >> that is ugly. we have news and i have been

saving this line for you. the markets are shouting about yellin. >> okay. >> what are they shouting? >> janet yellin is federal reserve chair, the first ever to be nominated for the position. that is 1,000 reports expected to come down and the market likes it. yellin is likely to keep interest rates lower for a longer period of time. even if low rates do cause inflation, there is no perfect policy and if she had the two to choose from, she would view lower rates from the center and inflation as the lesser of the two evils. only as a trivia question. the first u.s. female to be nominated as head of our fed, but there is a female central bank head, first in the world. it was in which country? russia. >> russia. >> elvira nebulina. >> i knew that.

>> educating us. did you know that? not in the driveway. yeah. it's in the shop. it's going to cost me an arm and a leg. that's hilarious. sorry. you shoulda taken it to midas. get some of that midas touch. they tell you what stuff needs fixing, and what stuff can wait. next time i'm going to midas. high-five! arg! i did not see that coming. trust the midas touch. for brakes, tires, oil, everything. (whistling)

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>> up next, did we learn anything some. >> i don't know. >> nope, we didn't.

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there was a connection that started it all and made the future the wonderful thing it turned out to be... at bank of america, we know we're not the center of your life, but we'll do our best to help you connect to what is. >> do it, man. on the government shut down. talking about what we learned. the learned that the president is making things a lot rougher by shutting down parks. >> i care about parks and i have a favorite monument, but we

should also focus on what it's doing to people. >> you are admitting that the president deliberately is making it harter? >> i am not saying that, no. >> right. >> i learned that mika is shopping. >> you will see you all later. >> how do you think john is? >> if you don't top the direct me to a question, just engage me. >> or not. >> thanks so much for watching. it's always great low appreciated. stick around at chuck todd is straight ahead on "the daily rundown." >> the 200 hour mark. just what we wanted to hear. almost year since the "veep" debate put him on the national