the world. that does it for "the cycle." martin bashir, save the world. >> i'll try. good afternoon. it's friday, october 11th. and the polls, the polls, the polls. and for some republicans, sorry seems to be the hardest word. ♪ >> unmitigated political disaster for the gop. >> the worst numbers i have seen. >> kind of numbers you only see once or twice in a lifetime. >> an unforced error. a willing self immolation. >> record low numbers for the republican party. >> bad economics, bad governance, bad politics. >> the absolute destruction of our brand. >> ske daddeled out of there. >> a very useful meeting and hopefully we can see a way forward. >> do you worry about the republican party. >> a family feud that is extremely intense. >> senator cruz and his group have made obama care more popular. >> ted cruz and i have been

roundly criticized. >> thank you for being here. i wish you would participate in the democratic process through speaking respectfully. >> we make no apologies. >> after leaving here, i'm going to be going to the white house. if i'm never seen again, please send a search and rescue team. ♪ what else should i be ♪ all apologies ♪ >> good afternoon. that is a live picture of the white house briefing room, where press secretary jay carney is about to take the microphone. and we'll monitor what he has to say about possible negotiations to end the government shutdown as he speaks. and as we close out the 11th day of the government shutdown, there is now some hope of an 11th-hour resolution. to avert the one thing that's even more terrifying, a government default. after a two-week stalemate, there are signs that the establishment gop is now

striking back against the tea party insurgents who have sewn anarchy and mayhem within their own party. and most importantly, people are now talking. this afternoon, the president wrapped up a series of meetings with lawmakers, hosting senate republicans, including wacko bird, ted cruz, at the white house. senator lindsay graham characterized the meeting just a brief time ago. >> if we negotiated, if we had done this a couple weeks ago, we wouldn't be where we are today. i think you'll see something come out of the house in the next 24 hours to reopen the entire government. that will have changes to obama care, that will not destroy the program, but make it better. i think you'll see an effort by the house to raise the debt ceiling, not for a year, but for a period of time. i hope the president will accept these gestures from the house and we get this behind us in the next 48 hours. >> yep. 48 hours to hold our breath and the war on weekends continues with the house in session at 9:00 a.m. on saturday.

wow. today, house budget chairman, congressman paul ryan, struck a reasonable tone addressing the value voter summit in washington. >> this president, he won't agree to everything we need to do. a budget agreement with this president and this senate, it won't solve all of our problems. but i hope it's a start. i hope we can get a down payment on our debt. >> mr. ryan addressing conservatives there from a secret, undisclosed location, and perhaps that's because he's not vowing to call down fire and brim stone on the affordable care act. remarkably, mr. ryan and his cooler-headed colleagues have now delegated that line of attack to the sole purview of mr. cruz, who told values voter today that it's the democrats who are on the defense. >> look, the democrats are feeling the heat. in my view, the house of representatives needs to keep doing what it's been doing, which is standing strong! >> yes! that's because mr. cruz has been

commissioning his own polls, and listening to his own lunacy instead of reading the surveys that everyone else sees. like our latest nbc "wall street journal" poll, the one that nbc news political director chuck todd called an unmitigated disaster for the republican party. to start, by a 53-31 margin, more people blame congressional republicans for the shutdown than the president. 70%, including 40% of republicans, believe congressional republicans are putting their own political agenda ahead of what's good for the country. that's doing no favors for the party brand with a 53% having a negative view of the gop, the worst rating for republicans in the polls nearly 25 year-year history. oh, and nearly half of those surveyed now want democrats to lead congress. a margin of eight points, the

largest lead since 2009. mr. cruz, of course, was not buying any of it when nbc news caught up with him just a few moments ago. >> i think it was a poll -- if you seek out liberal obama supporters and ask them their views, they're going to tell you they're liberal obama supporters. that's not reflective of where the country is. >> yes, just keep skewing, mr. cruz. after all, it did great for mitt romney, didn't it? let's go to elijah couplin elij. i wonder if you would mind waiting, because jay carney is currently speaking from the press briefing room. we're going to take a quick listen. >> has insisted we cannot allow a situation where one party in one house uses the threat of default to try to extract concession through budget negotiations. and it is his position that the right thing to do is to remove that gun from the table. extend the debt ceiling in a way

that ensures that there is no suggestion or hint that default is an option. because our economy can't endure that kind of approach to resolving our budget differences. and a proposal that puts a debt ceiling increase at only six weeks tied to budget negotiations would put us right back where we are today, in just six weeks, on the verge of thanksgiving and the obviously important shopping season leading up to the holidays. and that would create, you know, enormous uncertainty for the economy. the president speaking with small business owners, heard from them that, you know, the continued threat of default into that season would be very damaging to them. >> but you said -- >> we don't think that's the right way to go. >> you said yesterday, though,

the president would likely sign a short-term debt ceiling increase. that still stands, is that correct? >> yes. here's -- but let's be clear about what his position has been and what i've said. it is the very least that congress could do to pass legislation that would raise the debt ceiling for a short term and pass legislation that would fund the government for a short term as the senate has already passed. and the president has believed that, as i think i've stated many times, we should raise the debt ceiling for longer than that, as the senate as proposed and will vote on soon, because we should not link the threat of default to budget negotiations. he's very eager to engage in budget negotiations. that's been something he's amply demonstrated all year long and is reflected in the budget proposal he made earlier this year. but we should not have a situation -- a dynamic that has led to where we are now that led to what we saw in the summer of

2011 and that would be recreated in six weeks if we had to, once again, go through a process where one party was trying to extract concessions and budget negotiations in return for lifting the debt ceiling. >> one more time. there was a proposal that the house republicans came to the white house -- >> listening there to jay carney, responding, saying that the president is unwilling to agree to any kind of continuing resolution or debt ceiling raise that is of an insufficient period or oh length of time. let's go back to congressman elijah cummings. congressman, what is this republican addiction to bimonthly chaos and fraught circumstances for the economy of the united states? >> i think it's basically to hold congress and the nation hostage. and to create these so-called emergency situations, so as to extract the things that they want, things they could not

accomplish through the regular legislative process. they want to do it through the back door. >> so what are we going to do? are we going to deny veterans' benefits again in six weeks? are we going to deny meals on wheels? are we going to throw children off head start every six weeks? is that where we are? >> unfortunately, that is the concern of the democrats. keep in mind, martin. we now have 30 republicans who have come out and said they would vote with all of the democrats to have a continuing resolution, a clean continuing resolution, which would, of course, open up government immediately. and, again, we -- and i agree with the president. you cannot function with regard to a continuing resolution, with regard to raising the debt ceiling, with a gun at your head. you just can't do it. and so -- and i think what it does, is that if you do it that way, you'll be in a few months

going through the same thing. and if you give them concessions, then what they consider to be concessions -- >> yes. >> they'll want more and more and more. and they're never satisfied, ever. >> all you do is, you introduce a pattern of behavior, and you affirm the rightness of this kind of practice. but republicans, as you know, sir, have done everything to oppose every single thing this president has tried. it doesn't matter if it's the americans jobs act, the affordable care act, they oppose it. now you yourself had a similar experience, indeed it's ongoing, with the house oversight committee and its idiotic chairman. what is it going to take for these people to realize that venting their personal bitterness is actually harming the people of this country? >> i don't know what it's going to take. i can tell you, martin, there's a lot of pain out there. a lot of pain. of course, i represent a district that is close to

washington. i have social security administration in the middle of my district. we've got over 16,000 employees who have been furloughed. and then there are others that are being asked to come to work with no pay. and i've had people calling me and saying, cummings, what am i supposed to do, i'm note not getting any pay, how do i pay my mortgage? and then, of course, all the services people are being denied. and i think one of the things that this is showing is that government is very important. people here -- republican friends quite often bashing government employees. but let me tell you, they play some very, very significant roles. >> yeah. in case our viewers walk away thinking a great wave of reason has suddenly swept the gop with their willingness to engage in conversations and maybe even consider opening up the government again, i'd like you to take a listen to the famed

dr. ben carson today at the value voter summit. listen to this, sir. >> and i have to tell you, you know, obama care is really, i think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. and it is slavery in a way. >> there you go, sir. the affordable care act is the worst thing since slavery. i mean, every aspect of the affordable care act is apparently a manifestation of slavery. we had the fugitive slave act as an analogy last week. now you have this individual saying it is slavery. what are you talking about? >> i don't have a clue. and i know ben carson. of course, he's from baltimore. and i've known him for over 30 years, and i'm really saddened by those comments. because dr. carson works in a hospital -- johns hopkins, one of the greatest hospitals in the country. >> no doubt. >> and within a half mile radius

of johns hopkins, there are so many people that are sick and dying, because they don't have insurance. the cure is in -- within the walls of johns hopkins, but they don't have the insurance to get in. and my friend, dr. carson, knows that well. i don't know what this is about. i'm concerned that he made those statements. and i think it's very, very unfortunate. i don't know who he is talking to. but he needs to come back to baltimore. and i'll take him a tour -- give him a tour of my neighborhood, where we can sit and talk to some of these people who are going to benefit greatly from the affordable care act, those many people who have preexisting conditions, the young people who need to stay on their parents' insurance policies until they're 26, the children and -- who need all kinds of care, 17 million of them, who are now able to have insurance and not be thrown off because of preexisting conditions. >> yeah. >> those are the folks that, you know -- that hear him and some

of my republican friends, they talk a lot about other folks, but they don't talk about the people that actually the affordable care act was put in place to assist in getting insurance. >> indeed. >> and so that's very unfortunate. >> yeah. well, congressman, elijah cummings, maybe when you take him back, you could introduce him to departmental members of the psychiatrist department. it sounds like he needs help. thank you, sir, for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, chris hayes and john walsh will join us. but first, it's republican open mic night. why not test out some new tgif material, hey? >> thank you. i am headed to the white house. and does anybody have a message that i can carry to the president? and i am in a toyota prius. so i'm not sure if i can take all his supporters with me. but if you need a ride back to the white house, we do have a prius, we'll take you along ♪ need to go home ♪ can i get a hell no ♪ because we're gonna go all

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it would appear that even republicans are not immune from the ravages of the government shutdown, because today it took away the one thing that they care about more than the affordable care act, food stamps, immigration reform and meals on wheels. yes, you guessed it. paul ryan. mr. ryan was forced to cancel his in-person appearance at the value voter summit in washington today in order to work on a detail to avert a debt ceiling crisis. instead, he pretaped a fresh message of, well, the same old lines you've come to expect. >> we need to apply our principles to the challenges of today. and that means we need to completely rethink government's

role in our lives. we need to completely rethink government's role in helping the most vulnerable. we need to completely rethink government's role in health care. that means we can never give up on repealing and replacing obama care. >> and joining us now is joan walsh, editor at large of salon.com and chris hayes, my colleague. chris, we're now being told that paul ryan is the savior for the nation. are we supposed to give him a standing ovation, because he suddenly realized that defaulting is actually a bad thing for the country? >> well, i think what's remarkable about it was, there was a real moment for about 24 hours -- maybe 36 -- in which it seemed possible that the entire lines of authority in american class politics had completely degraded to the point that wall street could no longer command the republican party not to set the entire world on fire.

but luckily, both -- in a perverse way, luckily for all of us, luckily for world financial markets, and for the lord's of finance who occupy the great lower district of this city -- >> yes. >> -- they were able to impose their will on them. weirdly, it is a relieve. it is a bizarre circumstance to find yourself in, in which you are rooting -- you are sitting there rooting the kind of american oil garbagy is placing enough calls into the offices of john boehner so that we are all delivered from totally savage destruction. >> and joan, here's -- >> the system works, please, please, god. >> and joan, i was just reflecting on the fact, we spent a year with paul ryan running away from his budget, frightened to discuss it on the stump when he was running as vice presidential candidate and yet now his budget is the salvation of the nation. >> and he's -- >> how did that happen? >> he's completely delusional, but not enough. being savaged for not showing up at value voter and this

compromise does not immediately destroy and defund obama care is he's a big sellout i'll he's thinking he's going to push this horrible budget on the country. >> here's what everyone misses, i think, about the paul ryan budget. now we're talking about this entitlement reform, benefit cuts. >> he's talking about means testing medicare. he's talking about cutting federal pensions. he's cutting taxes. and he's also talking about bringing back the key stone pipeline. >> the reason that won't happen is because the republican base does not want it to happen. this is the most important thing to understand about the whole politics of entitlement reform, is that the old white conservative people who show up at tea party rallies, outside the capitol, at the value voter summit, would like their social security checks, thank you very much and they would like their medicare, thank you very much. and you are not going to be able to go to them, and say remember, guys, we told you we were going to defund obama care. here's what we came up with instead. we're cutting your social security. no way, no way. even a party as hell bent be on political suicide as this party seems to be is not that stupid. >> right.

i guess what gets lost in all of this, joan, is that you've got -- you've got ted cruz who led the fight, and now you've got paul ryan, who saves them at the end of the day. where does this leave mr. boehner himself? >> on the sidelines, completely. he is speaker in name-only. nancy pelosi or somebody else to bail him out all along. and i talked to nancy pelosi last night and she was amazingly candid about the dynamic. >> you spoke to her personally? >> yes, i did. >> very q & a at salon. >> the dynamic democrats helped create, she said we have been enablers and we can't be anymore. they trust us to be the reasonable ones, responsible ones, so they will be irresponsible and we will bail them out at the end of the day. >> and i thought that answer was fascinating, because part of what we're seeing here is unprecedented unity on the part of the democrats which has gotten us to the point we are in which the republicans own this, as they should own it. >> yes. >> and in the past, republicans could always count on democrats

breaking away. and, in fact, there is reporting indicating that senate republicans thought we're going to gets some of these red state democrats to come with us on some of these votes. no, no, no, no. >> i couldn't help notice, joan, if it's hard to convince republicans that defaulting is a bad thing, how do you convince them about the truth regarding climate change, for example? what hope is there with that? >> there is no hope. there really is no hope. the only hope is that this turns out to be a way of election. we all have to wish we were in october, 2014, because it would be so horrible. they do have time to recover. but we've got to hope people come to their senses and a lot of these guys are swept out. i don't know if it will happen, but there is no convincing them. we live in two different americas right now. >> we certainly do. planet ted cruz and the united states. joan walsh and chris hayes, thank you. and, of course, remember, you can always catch my friend and colleague, chris, every night at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. thanks so much. coming up, a word of welcome for my newest colleague here at

msnbc, before his friday night debut. but first, travel in the republican ranks? don't believe me? listen to how representative louie gohmert described senator john mccain earlier today. and just listen to this. >> some senator from arizona -- a guy that liked gadhafi before he wanted to bomb him. a guy that liked mubarak before he wanted him out. a guy that's been to syria and supported al qaeda, and rebels. but he was saying today the shutdown has been a fool's errand. ♪ max and penny kept our bookstore exciting and would always come to my rescue. but as time passed, i started to notice max just wasn't himself. and i knew he'd feel better if he lost a little weight. so i switched to purina cat chow healthy weight formula.

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you go in there and show them, he's the best. just do it. is it in you? i'm loving it! >> the actor, alec baldwin, is well-known to most of us from characters like that. to characters like this. >> our target is a major transaction of micro processors. yes, those. i don't know what they are, you don't know what they are, who gives a [ bleep ]. cash. >> but what you haven't seen is alec baldwin like this, in conversation with new york city mayoral candidate, bill de blasio. >> the constitution laid out a tough mission. and in a time in history, by the way, when things were, you know -- they were chaotic dynamics going on. and in this new country, borne out of a war with the unknown ahead, people said, you know what, we're not going to allow authorities just to walk into a house and start searching. they have to get a warrant. and we're going to respect people's right to free speech and it built the greatest nation in the world oh.

>> and so tonight, "up late" with alec premiers at 10:00 p.m. eastern and award-winning edition that will light up friday nights on this network. i, of course, wouldn't dream of offering such an accomplished actor even a single word of advice, except to say welcome to the family. and as he might say, always be closing. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up, as the gravity of the shutdown sinks in for the republican party. >> i think the reality that the government shutdown is not playing out well is sinking in to everybody. >> it is day ten of the government shutdown. but you know what, day ten -- let me add that to my frequent shutdown punch card here. get that right there. and -- oh! hey! i win a free cdc emoto monkey! stamps.com is the best.

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from shock waves to wildfire, here are today's top lines. look out below. >> we now have polling data that shows the republican party less popular than its ever been. >> i come back though to the nbc poll. >> in the history of the party, which is shocking. >> jaw-dropping, the political plummet of the gop. >> i can't emphasize enough the effect that had in this building. >> it's a bit of a shock wave to a lot of republicans. >> i don't think it's self-serving of nbc news correspondents talking about it like wildfire. >> it went around here like wildfire. >> it was quick. >> yeah, it really hit like a ton of bricks. >> one impactful poll, that's for sure. >> it really resonated with a lot of republicans here on capitol him. >> the damage done to the republican brand is actually reaching historic levels. >> maybe it's not worth just the absolute destruction of our brand. >> record-low numbers. >> unmitigated political

disaster cruz and his group have pulled a neat trick. >> jaw-dropping members. >> making obama care more popular. >> the kind of numbers you only see once or twice in a lifetime. >> last month, 31% of people think it was a good idea, now 38% of people. >> it is completely back firing. >> well, the boomer an effect here. >> do you feel you owe your party an apology? >> did i do that? >> i know you desperately want to change the topic from obama care. >> what's it like to be the most hated man in america? >> politically republicans are the losers. >> we're losing! >> and it's not even close. >> it's lies! >> let's get right to our panel, joining us now josh barrow, of course, of business insider. and krystal ball, my colleague and one of the hosts of "the cycle" on msnbc. >> you can name me the host. >> and i'm sure you would be fine if you got all the colleagues' pay as well. a poll has had such an effect as

such been published. >> it is remarkable. and part of the reason why it has such an impact, we have had this sort of trickle all week. the gap gallup numbers, numbers coming out of utah about mike lee, the trickle of polling and then this comprehensive poll showing terrible numbers across the board, comparisons to the '95 shutdown in which republicans are getting more of the blame than they got at that time. i have to think this is a major, major wake-up call. >> and yet, josh, if ted cruz were capable of embarrassment, he might feel embarrassed but he's not. so take a listen to him. here he comes. >> you know, the polling has varied. and i'll know that that poll was very heavily weighted with an awful lot of democrats. with an awful lot of obama supporters and 20% of the people polled were government workers. so i don't think it's surprising that people who work for the government who are supporters of the president and who are

democrats support the president are democrats and blame republicans for the things that are bad in this country. >> josh, would you buy a second-hand car from him? >> no. that's amazing. i hadn't seen the -- >> you haven't seen the -- >> the skewed polls line. >> do you remember that from the last election? >> the funny thing, i thought in 2012, when you had republicans saying for months, the polls are skewed and romney is going to win and that didn't happen, that might have caused a reevaluation that led them to think, gee, are we in a bubble. and this doesn't seem to happen. you can see cruz's speech to the values voters summit this morning that seemed like it could have been given six weeks ago where he was saying the american people are with us, washington is listening to them when they say repeal obama care, our plan is working. it's like he was on a completely different planet. whatever news comes out from this poll, i believe that it's changed -- changed attitudes among a lot of republicans on capitol hill. but it doesn't get through to ted cruz and a lot of his allies. >> well, and, in fact, i think

after the election, there was a bit of soul-searching among republicans. they really -- they wanted to go forward with immigration reform. you saw marco rubio putting himself out there on that and the rnc autopsy report in which they say we've got to soften -- a terrible -- it was a terrible name for it. but they really wanted to do a little bit of soul-searching and try to figure out how they could be a majority governing party again. >> right. >> they were unable to do it, because they have been feeding their base this red-hot, right wing lrhetoric. you've got to change the rules, which is exactly what they're doing here. >> i should add, josh's piece is fantastic, he talks about ted cruz on a separate planet. but we should be encouraged that the living on that planet continues by some, including steve stockman of texas. let's hear what he was talking about with regard to this poll. take a listen to mr. stockman. >> we have a president that's really, to tell you the truth, very obstinate and not very open to being, you know i was here

when bill clinton was near. bill clinton never did this. he kept the lincoln monument open. he talked to us. this president is determined to destroy the republican party. >> it's not the president that's destroying the republican party, is it? it's the republican party. >> right. it's ted cruz's factions destroying the popularity. the funny thing, you have people like stockman and maybe 50 or 60 other republicans in the house who are on board with the ted cruz approach and then you have about another 160 republicans in the house who understand what a disaster this is. but cannot figure out how to stop it. if they're the ones who stand up and say no, these people are crazy, we need to move toward the center, we need to work constructively with the president, we need to show people we're willing to govern, they're going to get creamed by their own base that believes in the ted cruz thing. if they don't stand up, theyin, popular. and he's become very widely known. you know, now there's tons of talk about 2016. you can very much see him winning in these narrow

primaries the way they're set up. so for him, it's been, and i've said this from the beginning, it's been an entirely cowardly and self-interested act. he doesn't care about the party, he doesn't care about the untry, he cares about himself and this has been totally self-serving for him. >> is hard on poor speakeris. josh barrow and krystal ball, thank you very much. coming up, the usual suspects back at it at the value voters summit. too bad nobody wants to hear it. >> i don't remember how many of you remember the movie "the usual suspects." in that movie, they describe the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist. >> senator cruz, why won't you -- [ screaming ] >> you know what i'm curious? is anybody left at the organizing for america headquarters?

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some people... ugh! no, i've got it. the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn 2x the points on dining out and entertainment, with no annual fee.to apply, go to citi.com/thankyoucards and i have to tell you, you know, obama care is really, i think, the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. and it is in a way -- it is slavery, in a way. >> ah, yes, the values voters summit, a socially conservative elective held every year in washington and named after two things that republicans don't seem to have much of at the moment, values and voters. today's opening of the three-day event included a who's who of 2016 possibilities, including ted cruz.

rand paul. paul ryan. and marco rubio. at least five in all, assuming you include the great rick santorum, who is scheduled to speak in a moment. ted cruz, of course, was the star attraction, at least if you were a protester at the event, where he was heckled and interrupted on at least, by our count, seven separate occasions. and if there was an overriding theme for today's event, it is that these men and women are the true americans, and the president of the united states is quite clearly not. >> you remember the early christian martyrs, our disciples, disciples of christ. it's almost as if that is happening again throughout the middle east. this administration does nothing to stop it, and it can be argued that they're giving aid and comfort to those who tolerate these crimes. >> joining us now is hogan giddily, a republican strategist. unfortunately for him and julian epstein, a democratic strategist. hogan, if i might, i would like

to share with you some of the things i have learnt today from the values voter summit. first, conservatives are the actual majority. second, the president is helping to arm a war on the christian faith. third, the affordable care act is the equivalent of slavery. how is that going for rebranding, hogan? >> yeah, that's probably not the brand we want to start with, and definitely not the one we want developed for -- if we have any hope of winning future elections. look, i listened to rand paul and he's an interesting character. i obviously live in south carolina, i'm in d.c. right now. and i go out and listen to all these candidates on the stump, too, because they come to south carolina and want to get their message out early on. the day after doma and propel 8 and after they voted on immigration reform, rand paul talked solely about he wasn't his daddy on foreign policy. i think what you're seeing from him is attacked in that direction. he's trying to beef up his bravado, if you will, on the foreign stage, and say i will go to war, but he hasn't addressed

any of the values that a lot of voters are there to hear and talk about. >> but with respect -- what about interest ben carson saying the affordable care act is the equivalent of slavery? >> sure. look, i'm not going to defend -- >> what about the fact that they are accusing the president of the united states, himself a committed christian, read his autobiography, see his church attendance, ask him the question. they say he's waging a war on christianity. >> look, i was at all these speeches. i heard everybody talk. that has not been the central theme. i understand you're picking out a few things here and there, and those are the most hellacious of all of the language that we've heard. but for the most part, i'm not getting that. >> okay, well, hogan, forgive me, sir. but i like you, was watching the speeches very carefully. indeed, i've reread the transcripts in order to give them due credit where they have been quoted. but in my theme was wrong, what was the theme today? what was it? >> right. i think they're actually taking a more economic tone in this value voters summit, which i was actually kind of blown away by. it's something we have been talking about for years, and in

the huckabee camps and santorum camps, inex trickbly linking values to the economy. and how children born out of wedlock don't help the economy at all in the sense they're born into poor families, they have a rougher time getting a good education. and end up going -- a large majority have problem with crime. those are the things they're talking about for the most part. now, i completely understand that the branding issue we have, the problems we have, is really not being helped right now, because those who are more pragmatic in a sense are being treated as traitors. and not worth anything. and the fiery rhetoric is winning the day right now. but there is a large contingent over there that's not buying that. >> okay. julian, you've been incredibly patient. the floor is yours, sir. >> let's just do a reality check. i haven't seen so much self denial since karl rove on election night. the republican party, after the last election fiasco, talked about rebranding, having a

kinder, gentler, more moderate message. and all of this rhetoric we're seeing today is going in exactly the opposite direction. and if there is one way to diagnose the problems of the republican party since 2011, it is that they are increasingly speaking to a very narrow swath of the electorate. somewhere between about 20 and 25%, according to the recent polls. and what this has resulted in, at least in terms of the latest legislative fiasco, is an early halloween president gift for speaker boehner, a flaming bag of you know what, that he has no idea what to do with. i mean, all of these things are strengthening obama. the -- and hogan talks about a -- an economic message. i mean, get real, hogan. the republican party a month ago was talking about going after obama care. they had no plan on that, and that has imploded. republicans are running away from it. then they spoke about using the debt ceiling as leverage. that has imploded as soon as the business community told them they were nuts. now they're going after the budget shutdown.

this is a process if these guys knew anything about business, anything about the process of legislation, they would have started this the way everybody has done this for the last many decades. you start an appropriations process off in january and you come to a process in october. you generate consensus behind that and use the consensus you generate widely to leverage against the administration. instead they have come out at this last minute with no plan. no coherence, because they jumped from -- from health care to debt ceiling. now to the government shutdown. no -- and nobody even knows what they are -- what they're lobbying for. what is it -- what is the plan? >> very quickly, because we have -- >> look, i said this today in the "new york times." we're fighting the same battle. we lost that battle and we're fighting on the same battlefield we lost on. >> absolutely. thank you both. and i should tell you that we've got the great jim demint, the true head of the republican party, as key note speaker, coming up soon. thank you both. and coming up for us, we'll

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and of the proposal that house republican put forward. he has some concerns with it. >> white house press secretary jay carney, describing a lengthy day of discussions between the president and congressional republicans. starting with an hour and a half meeting with the senate gop and going right up to a phone call with speaker boehner. we understand late this afternoon. and actually, even at this very moment, jay carney is still addressing the press corps in the briefing room, and we started our broadcast today with that very same image.

for more, i'm joined by white house correspondent, kristen welker. good afternoon, kristen. we heard the press secretary say the president has concerns with the proposal that the house gop is putting forward. what is the latest offer, and what specific concerns does the president have? >> well, martin, fwachb. as you mentioned, president obama spoke with john boehner. i expect he expressed those concerns during that conversation. the house is essentially proposing to increase the debt limit over a period of six weeks. but to link that to budget negotiations. that is at the core of the president's concerns, according to white house press secretary jay carney. the argument being, if you tie an increase to the debt limit, reopening the government to budget negotiations, the country will essentially be in the same exact situation that it is in right now. so that is the concern. and when you talk about sort of the impact on the country, on

the economy, as you know, the debt limit is a real concern to economists. they say it could be an economic catastrophe if the nation were to default on its loans. the president says he wants a clean increase of the debt limit, no strings attached. martin? >> and kristen, in addition to you covering the white house so well for us and the politics, you've also spent some time, as i understand it, with a family that's been deeply affected by this shutdown in real living terms, is that right? >> that's exactly right, martin. i just came from a home in alexandra, virginia. spoke to a couple there, matthew barker, a government worker. he is an arborist for the capitol. he is furloughed. tomorrow he's going to be getting his first paycheck, he tells me it will be cut in half. to make ends meet, he has picked up extra jobs. his wife is expecting. she is five months pregnant. i can tell you, martin, because i just spent a few hours with them. they are incredibly stressed right now. incredibly stressed by this

shutdown. their message to lawmakers, to the president, is to get something done, to reopen the government. martin? >> kristen welker there with a moving story. thanks so much, kristen. >> thanks, martin. >> we'll be right back. max and penny kept our bookstore exciting and would always come to my rescue. but as time passed, i started to notice max just wasn't himself.

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fool ♪ >> so this afternoon, president obama has invited the senate republicans to the white house. >> i am headed to the white house. and does anybody have a message that i can carry to the president? >> stay strong, democrats. >> i will make a request. if i'm never seen again, please send a search and rescue team. ♪ >> better to be thought an idiot than to open y