♪ 'in a day or...' man: twooooooooooooooooo! is that me, was i singing? vo: not paying for scheduled maintenance feels pretty good. no-charge scheduled maintenance now on every new volkswagen. that's the power of german engineering >> a stalk in the air, but the senate may not even be talking to each other. at the start of this saturday morning, we find ourselves questioning the status quo, that barak barak and the democrats found the formula to end the cycle of crazy and u.s. legislative process. we will talk about that in just a minute. also, eight democratic members of congress got themselves arrested in an effort to change washington away from the shutdown. we will be joined by one of

them. has cory booker done enough to stop his recent polling slide? the final debate was this weekend. it was kind of ugly, finally, we will be shaking things fwhup america's favorite, abbreviated made for current events quiz show.l get ready to meet up against the clock's celebrity contestant. first, we begin with the latest in washington, a quick check of miriam webster dictionary the verb to compromise has more than one definition. one is to give up something you want in order to reach an agreement. the idea here being both sides give up something to come to a mutual agreement or it isn't compromising. nor do you get everything you want, nor do you expect to by the same toen token, some are non-starters. another definition of to sxhiez as to expose something to risk or danger. to compromise, puts yourself in a compromising position. you heard that one before.

that, yes, brings us to the third definition which is to leave something dangered or weaken as a result. on day 12, if big definition is which compromise is actually in play here. is aan agreement on the verge of being reached? we should look to the definitions involving danger, leaving things damaged or weakened. exactly who or what is in danger or how might they or it be damaged or weakened? that is precisely what we are here to discuss. how optimistic you should feel depends entirely on whom you ask. senators met at the white house yesterday to discuss the government shutdown, one said he's more optimistic now than he has been in the past two weeks. is he predicting a plan put forward by house republicans will morph into a senate plan, maybe that has happened t. walk

post reported senate republicans are pressing how republicans to adopt a blueprint that would reopen the government and fun it for six months but also raise the debt ceiling through january 31st of next 84 t. key here under this plan the senate and the house would have until then to reach a long-term agreement on the budget. if they succeed in doing that, the debt ceiling would automatically be raised at the end of next january, avoiding a showdown. if they fail to agree 2009 now and then, another showdown could potentially loom. the plan would delay for two years the implementation of the medical device tax that would fund obama care. >> we'd negotiate it. if we had done this a couple weeks ago, we wouldn't be where we are today. i think you will see something come out of the house in the next 48 hours to reopen the entire government that will have changes to obama care that will not destroy the program but will make it better. i think you will see an effort be i the house raise the debt

ceiling not for a year but for a period of time. i hope the president will accept these gestures from the house and we get this behind us in the next 48 hours. >> what seems clear right now, about the only thing is that the republicans are feel agnew urgency to try to find a way to get this resolved. the impetus is clear. this is from the latest nbc news-"wall street journal" poll, 24% have a favorable rating. the generic ballot 2014, democrats lead by 8 points, 47 to 39%. >> that is the largest leap since 2009. there are other polls just like this that have come out in the last 72 hours, clearly, they've unnerved a lot of republicans. what is far from clear, though, what that sudden urgency republicans are feeling that some republican, at least are feeling, will translate it to. will they put together a package

president obama presented or will they end up making the farfetched demands that got us into this situation in the first place? if are you the democrats what do you do? maybe the republicans will offer you a short-term fix if you want to put yourself in the position of having to do this all over six weeks from now t. democrats have leverage here. if so, how will they use snit i want to bring in mj lee, a reporter with politico.com. a correspondent for public radio internationals the take away and msnbc contributor perry bacon, jr., msnbc reporter ka rin carmone. thanks for being here. we have that talk from lindsey graham, some republican senators speaking up basically saying 48-72 hours there will be a ruchlgs everybody out there yesterday the idea of a deal being near was sort of in the air. i guess this morning i'll start with you m.j., is your read on

this situation that we are that close to a resolution here? i'm looking at this seeing a lot unresolved or short-term unresolvable issues. do you think we're that close to getting something done sneer. >> it does sound like we've reached a point where republicans realize if we don't get something done to raise the debt ceiling and open the government, i think that message has been received by the republican party. it's been fascinating, though to see senate republican, house republican, sort of a lack of coordination there. i think that's actually a good thing for the president he can sort of sit back and say, well, you know, i'll be here to listen to you and, you know, see what plans you all come up with. i'll pick and choose. if the senate republicans and house republicans are not going to coordinate and work together, then i think that actually gives the president an advantage. >> that's interesting. i think it was politico reporting this, in these meetings, the senate republicans

came in yesterday to meet with the president. they were asking him in the meeting, hey, when you met with the house republican, what did they say? what is their plan? i can see mj's point that certainly that would give a little leverage to the president at the same time the reality is something ultimately has to get through that republican-controlled house. we have this question area of idea of republicans are sort of getting it, they're losing the public relation game here. but how widespread among the republicans? i see the leadership understands it. we have a huge tea party commission. we talk about these republicans from the same district. how widespread down they're feeling? . >> you know the senate feels this way. they are elected, state wide, i don't think we have a great sense for exactly how the house members feel. we know they have given up on defunding obama care. how much they'll accept? you saw hal rodgers, talking none of the conservative who is actually going to wear the

disagreement. he has until january. so we haven't seen a lot of house republicans so far say raise the debt ceiling until january 31st. i think we have to feel if more feel comfortable with this dole, susan colin the most moderate one in the chamber. >> you don't win over saying susan collins and lindsey graham are for this. >> i think it's interesting lindsey graham went over to meet with chambliss and boehner. he is trying to have it both way, maintain his reputation as someone that can work with people and get things done at the same time looking over his right shoulder. i also think the white house is doing something interesting here, they're trying to feed the republican their own tea party poison and seeing how that goes. they invited ted cruz to the white house yesterday, he got in a shouting match with president obama. they're kind of saying to both let's say conservative democrats

and to republicans in the senate, watch what happens when these people get her to way. >> let's understand exactly, we have all these different names, the chambers floating around here. let's understand the basic differences between what the house republicans are pushing for and the snalts, susan collins and lindsey graham. it would immediately reopen the government for six month, fund it at the skweser level. i think there could be talks. they will open it for six months, the house plan as it was originally constituted, leaves the government shut down. john boehner said we will dole with that. the length of the debt krolling is house is proposeing is much shorter than the senate t. senate is saying let's extend it to the end of january. the house is saying six weeks. there is a difference there. do you see these things, can they reconcile this? >> they may not be able to reconcile it. it may be the senate approach here that gets shut down speaker

boehner's throat. i'm sorry to use such -- why did lindsey graham come out of john boehner's office with chambliss, lindsey graham is one of the republican senators saying all along this is a stupid idea, why are we are doing this? he will come out and say we have a deal in 24 hours. he is trying to put the thumbs on the scales to get the house to agree. >> is the modem for somebody like lindsey graham is thinking of, what happened with the fiscal cliff where john boehner's house couldn't get the act together. the senate had to put it on the floor? >> even further back the fiscal cliff, go to 2011, super committee debt reduction deals and the names we haven't mentioned yet, which is mitch mcconnell, which had been in a similar six with a tea party challenge in the south and mitch mcconnell is the most important person from behind the scenes who has said enough is enough.

he is the one and has now gone to our colleague sam youngman at the paper down there in kentucky and said it is time for a come together moment. it's because mitch mcconnell is the epitome of what republicans are going through right now. he's the lathe leader. he's an established spender, an operator and looking over his right shoulder as well in kentucky. so he's trying to navigate these exact same waters. why does the senate win here? because it's clear to everyone. it's been clear to lindsey graham. it's been clear to mitch mcconnell since 2011 that speaker ban kerr not manage the vocal minority in his own conference. there comes a point he just needs help, mitch mcconnell to the rescue. that's what's happening now f. he can reach him. i don't know he's far enough down to grab his hand like fredo falling off the cliff. this is what happened before, it's happened again. >> another piece, if you look at the senate plan, let's just say

that's what gets through congress, the question is, or let's say the republicans kind of rally around that, what is the incentive for the white house here? again, it's a longer term debt kreeblg, six months on the opening of the government. that's still not too much, but we're going to get a report when we come back. we will find out what the white house is thinking about. this may be emerging a posture from the republicans. that's coming up right after this. customer's not happy, i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy. repeat customers, i'm happy. sales go up, i'm happy. i ordered another pair. i'm happy. (both) i'm happy. i'm happy. happy. happy. happy. happy. happy happy. i love logistics. i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't?

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>> tying the extension of the debt ceiling for only six weeks to budget negotiations creates a dynamic that is very sim laer to the one we are experiencing now and very similar to the one the country experienced in 2011. it has been the president's position, it is one that he holds to this day, that that's not the appropriate way to go.

the president cannot as he said so many times pay ransom in exchange for congress doing its fundamental, fulfilling its fundamental responsible, which is to insure the united states doesn't default and pay its bills. >> that was jay corny at the white house saying there was sill no deal. joining us from the white house, kristen welker, we were talking about the basic contours of the senate republican plan that seems to be emerging. a lot of questions of what final form it will take as well as up in the house. i'm kur yusz from the white house perspective what you are hearing of this idea of reopening the government for six months, extending the debt ceiling to the end of next year the bucket negotiation process with republican, we are also hearing part of this would be getting rid of for two years this medical device tax. those are the basic parameters we are hearing. what are you hearing about whether that would be okay with them? >> reporter: well, steve, first of all, i think when that

proposal was offered to president obama during that meeting that occurred here at the white house yesterday with senate republicans, i am told he looked at it and said, look, this is constructive. so that tells you something. in terms of whether or notr whether or not the president can get behind this type of a deal, i think that they are encouraged by the fact that it's six months. it's not the six weeks that the republicans were offering. >> that would have put the country right back in the same negotiations that they're in right now in the middle of the holiday season. so i think that is what you heard in those comments from white house press secretary jake carney, the white house found so disconcerting. in terms of the medical device tax, can i tell you about this as a possible concession for weeks. based on my conversations here, that seems to be the one thing that the white house could potentially get behind. >> that is the one thing they are opened to looking at. remember, president obama had said he is not going to

negotiate. that stance seems to have shifted t. white house seems to have gotten to a place they know they need to have some type of concession to move these budget negotiations forward to lift if debt ceiling. i think that medical device tax is one to watch. they are inching closer to a deal. clearly no deal at this hour, steve. >> one quick follow-up question in terms of let's say something like this, let's say this ends up being the basic framework, into this budget negotiation process we would plan over the next few weeks or months, i'm thinking back over the last three years, republicans running the house and the white house and senate, these budget negotiation haven't gone anywhere. there are fundamental issues they won't budge on like revenue. is there any reason to think going into this could yield a different result the time? >> reporter: well, i had the same reaction you have. i think all of us in washington covering these budget battles are scratching our heads and

saying how will this outcome be any different? one thing is some of the things potentially on the table are things that president obama had said he could support before, entitlement reforms, for example. choongs for medicare men bish areas, folks who made more money potentially paying more money. >> that is something president obama expressed a willingness to consider in the past. so it seems like some of the potential praermts of these budget negotiations that are coming together would be around things have had some bipartisan support in the past. again, they've never made it through that final hurdle of getting past both cham befrs of krong congress. so certainly i think there is some skepticism about. that i want to say on one point there is a growing course of voices among house republicans i am told, presented to house speaker john boehner, any deal has to lift the debt limit.

there seems to be a growing limit around that as well. >> you can tell we're later in the year. it's still dark behind her there at the white house. >> it's a metaphor. >> it's been dark for weeks. brew let's pick up that point about the medical device tax. it seems like an almost trivial thing. in terms, in the context of the president's position, the white house position as christian is saying is, look, these are fundamental issues. we should not ever be negotiating over a debt default. we want to kind of reclaim this precedent. mj, if they end up giving ground and giving in to republicans on that, does that sort of break up the precedent the white house is trying to establish here? is it trivial enough the press is established or reestablished? >> i think the president's stand, even if they were to make a concession on the medical device tact. it was an interesting tactic the president took, seemingly telling lawmakers, you know what, that is not a core

component of obama care. i think if he comes out front and says before anyone can tell the story in a different way, he's the first one to say this is not a major part of obama care. i don't consider it to be so important that it's a core part of the law, then i think if we reach a deal that involves a two-year delay of the medical device tax, the narrative doesn't become, well, the president made a big concession, he got what he wanted in terms of reopening the government, of raising the debt ceiling. there is this other thing he didn't consider that important anyway. that's the way the deal gets made. >> the other side of this, too, if that's not a big concession from the white house standpoint, from the tea party standpoint, if that's all they get out is a two-year delay, they will have a problem with that. we had an interesting new statement, i'll share that when we come back and talk about the implications after this. ♪

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>> so this is one of the stumbling blocks i see, how imminent a dole is, you have to get it through the house, while republican leaders may understand at this point that a radical overhaul of obama care is not going to happen, i'm not sure the republican base has that idea at all this susan colins senate republican plan we have been talking about, which would not touch obama care except for this medical device thing, this is what the heritage group said, various reports show congress is preparing a deal to allow obama care to move forward virtually uninterrupted. if that is what happens, a political win inside the beltway but a loss for the american people, what i'm reading there, that is a threat to john bohner. >> that is a threat to republican members of the house, a threat to senators. that's the threat that has sort of been behind the republican party the last few years, hey, this is a core vote for us.

do you remember mike castle, christine o'donnell? that's going to happen to you if you are on the wrong side of this. >> i didn't hear any deal making yesterday. what i heard is doubling down on this strategy. so i think this is on a collision course. what's interesting is part of the strategy for defunding obama care or shutting down the government was the fear of conservative senate democrats or senate democrats in red states. they don't seem very afraid. things seem to be moving in the opposite direction based on polling. they will find themselves outnumbered on this front. >> on the policy, heritage is right t. medical device tax is a tiny part of the law, elizabeth warren and al franken support of getting rid of it, they're right, it's not a concession to the republicans at all. they are hoping it will be unnoticed for anybody for the law. they are right about that point. i think we have gotten to a point where a few house republicans, the ones heritage

is pushing the most are going to oppose whatever deal comes out. it seems to me it gets to the floor, democrats will vote for this, peter kings and the sort of more main stream republicans will as well. i don't think you have to have many tea party republicans be for this. the people that drove the shutdown probably will not vote for the final group anyway. >> and then when that happens, perry is probably right. you are back exactly where everybody thought this would be when you started. maybe not the medical tax device per se, a situation in the house the jig is up. this thing expires on thursday. so this is not like three weeks ago when everybody was saying, hey, speaker boehner, pass the clean increases and will he, won't he? he's not going to cross ted cruz and the tea party faction in the house, no, no, now there is a deadline, he's going to have to i think one of the most interesting things about this. if you are a democrat, this might be heartening to you, democrats aren't used to winning and being quite so smart. steve, it was weeks ago, weeks

ago. let's all remember, we haven't talked about spending in the continuing resolution bill you talked about before on your show the democrats have lost on this, the spending levels in this deal, going into this, the republicans levels, weeks ago, you went to democratic aids, some senators and said, you guys are really going to let the sequester be the new baseline? they said, we're fine. because these guys want to fight about obama care. we're going to watch it. we don't want to have that argument. we will let them tear it apart. >> let's say they're unified, they won't talk about the unified levels because it shows disunity especially with the president. what happens then? how do we get rid of those spending levels? how do you get back from that? >> they think, they hope, if there severe a bubt budget conference which is out of reach the budget conference that patty murray and paul ryan have been so at odds on for the last two

or three months, maybe longer, they think in an actual budget negotiation, this sequestration could be placed. don't forget how badly the republicans hate the defense sequester. >> we have congress is in session this weekend. the house republicans are meeting in about a half hour. we have a house democrat that will joinnous a minute. we will find out if he and his party are on the verge of winning this shutdown, winning or losing is not the right term, emerging with something satisfactoriry to them. we will talk to him after this who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? . i'm pregnant. really?

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it's a stationery and gifts store. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. so you have time to focus on the things you love. ink from chase. so you can. speaker. it wasn't an accident. it was planned. >> that is the lowest thing you could ever read about a government. >> that doesn't even, wasn't even elected. who the heck are these people to decide what we're going to do? >> that was a very fiery bill pasquale. he's a democratic congressman

from new jersey tuesday night after a report in the new york times that detailed if current government shutdown was actually planned way back if february by a coalition of conservative activists led by reagan-era general ted meece. congressman joins us live. thank you for taking a few minutes. i want to run by you, we have been talking about it here on the show the basic parameters reported of a potential deal, you know, the senate republicans kind of pushing this, pushing this on the house republicans, it would be reopening the government for six months, funding it at the sequester level at that time, extending the debt ceiling to next january and another increase contingent on a long-term budget deal between the senate and the house, the third piece being a two-year delay in the medical device tax. if those are the basic parameters you are presented with, are you as a member of congress okay with supporting

that? >> as long as we open the government, as long as we agree to pay what we owe, both sides have voted on these things. we need to pay our bills. then we can negotiate. so whether it's the medical device thing, which i'm not very happy about it about removeing, what are you going to replace it with? but we are not going to essentially effect the affordable care act. thank god. >> well, can you peck up that point for a minute? i think maybe we should take a step back on the medical device tax. i think everybody has been hearing and reanxious, why is this thing such a big deal? why is this tax such a big deal? can you explain why this has become a central issue and what it represents? >> we are talking $40 billion over a period of time, it's one of the ways we are paying for the o'fordable care act. i think there has been enough evidence over the last 15 years that parts of this industry, i say parts of the industry have actually been in collusion with

doctors, have many times been indicted, gotten away with it be i the way by paying a fine. i'm not so sewer thature that's way to go, steve, it's nothing to hang your hat on and say this is the essential point i will not go beyond. if it's a part of a package, if it's reasonable, i think senator colins is headed in the right direction. it's something we can be talking about as we are now. as long as it's reasonable, i think the democrats will go for i. one thing for sure we're standing our ground not because of a party six, but because of america. we are not going to back down from people who threaten who we are. whether a small group or a larger group. we made our point. that's it. the president supports us. we port the president. that's what we should be doing right now. this is not the time for party politics. >> congressman, i'm with politico. good to see you.

>> good, how are you do something. >> good. you have been critical of your colleagues across the aisle and your state. what is your sense right now in terms of republicans wrand they stand on defund og baum care or weakening obama care. do you think that most of them view it as a moral issue or do you think ooenk even the folks who in the beginning were initially for defunding obama care, how much of a concern is it for them, this looking over their shoulder and being afraid of having, you know, a primary challenger who is considered more to their right come after them next year? >> well, i'm not questioning the motivations or the clack that support what is he does. he has been very, very clear. i think you would understand this, that he wants the essential changes. it's not a total dismantling, a delay in the affordable care act. scott. that's not going to happen. so i don't know what you are

going to do when you get to the point of whether you will keep this government opened or try to get it back opened again and what you will do when you have the debt of the united states on your hands and whether we're going to pay our debts and not simply become afterthoughts. i don't know what he's going to do about that. and we either have great -- that's fine. the american people are more important than the political party. we have to make a decision. we are talking about 80-wise. we are talking about people that can't communicate with their own party. we didn't make this up. who would have thought two weeks ago that we'd be talking about the dismantling of one of the great political parties. 20, 30, 40, 50 people are not going to do that to america. they're not going to do it to the republican party. i can assure you. all right. congressman, it will be a busy day in washington. we appreciate it. >> very busy. thank you very much.

a world famous up against the podiums have a new level of infamy. if you watched our current events the podium looked a little different tan usual. on the left side of the screen are the podiums from two weeks ago. they told us they had to switch them out because they were sending off the first set to new england we didn't think anything of it until we turned on our tvs and saw this, there they r. right, live, right smack in the heated senate debate. i'm telling you, those things will be in the smithsonian some day. they are still making their epic journey back to our humble studio. >> they're in your apartment. >> you know what they say, though, not blizzards, not hurricanes, not smallpox outbreaks will stop us from playing up against the clock. that's up next. let's go places.

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>> in 1973, this governor showed on the classic tv show "what's my line?" if you don't remember, panelists would try to figure out what job it was by asking yes or no questions. on that day in 1973, the celebrities did not know what to make of jimmy carter. >> all i can tell you about mr. x is he provides a service. >> is it a service that has to do with the women? >> yes, it certainly does. >> is this anything to do with the world of fashion? >> no. >> mr. x has a spiritual quality. does he recruit nuns? [ laughter ] . >> three years later that, nun recruiter was elected president of the united states. in just a minute, we'll be taking a page from "what's my

line" and be bringing out a celebrity contestant. our first at up against the clock. we will unveil who he or she is. then we'll let the game begin right after this.

. >> live from studio 3a in rockefeller center. it's time for up against the clock. today's contestants, it's tom willig. from seoul, south korea, say hello to m.j. wi. today's celebrity question, from tennessee, say hello to the pride of dorchester, massachusetts, lawrence o'donnell. right now, with the host of up

against the clock, it's steve kornacki. >> thank you, bill. thank you to our live studio audience. thank you to those of you joining us at home. can you forget high noon is three hours from now. the gunfight at this okay coral is just about to begin. we are joined by two new contestants, todd and mj. they have both passed our rigorous contestant screening process. welcome to both of you. for the first time, we are joined by a celebrity contestant, lawrence o'donnell. we know you from the last word, eknow you from the west wing. we know you from monk. it is an honor to have you today. >> there is a problem. i didn't get the questions ahead of time. >> lawrence, this is the ultimate test of challenge. >> they told me there were supposed to be here. >> if you did your homework for your show this week, you will be ready. >> tweet me the answers, okay,

because i haven't read the paper. >> there is no tweeting during the show. >> tweet me the answers, please, okay. >> let me get a quick refresher, lawrence needs one. we should have confiscated that blackberry. this is a rapid fire quiz about the week in politics, therer three round in regulation play, each round will be 100 seconds long, in the first round, questions are worth 100 point, in the second, they're harder the third round, we call this the ph.d. round, we will move fast and get through as many questions as we can. don't forget, there are a few instant bonuses. these are follow-up questions for a no risk chance for to you double your winnings on one question. contestants, remember, you will be penalized for encorrect answers. i will remind our people here in the studio. >> it's hard. >> not as it used to be. we eliminated the early in. no outbursts.

our contestants deserve and demand absolute concentration up against the clock. with that, i will ask you, contestants, are you ready to play? >> ready, steve. >> lawrence, all set? >> this is as ready as i'm going to get. >> hand on buzzers, please, we put 100 second on the clock, it begins with this. in response to the federal government shutdown, a state of emergency was declared by this notoriously blunt republican maine governor. >> angus king, steve. >> angus king is incorrect. >> it is? >> oh, yeah, he's a senator now. >> used to be. >> maine governor. >> three seconds. >> geeze, let me see. >> oh, shoot. >> time. lawrence. >> twitter. >> i'm going to give you the twitter penalty t. correct answer is paula paige. >> i was going to say this. >> the famous senator from south carolina who wrote an open letter to president obama defending the government shutdown is now the president of what contributor --

>> heritage foundation. >> instant bonus, a chance to double your winnings, when demeant left in saturday. who was appointed to fill his seat. >> tim scott. >> tim scott is correct. double her points. mj takes an early lead. for 100 points in what may be the single biggest penalty in u.s. history, which former big city. >> mj. >> kwame kilpatrick. >> correct. mj surge here. >> five minutes away. >> inspired a unique sense of civic responsibility this week as a civilian carrying a south carolina state flag spotted mowing the lawn outside which d.c.. >> the lincoln memorial. >> you got to get those twitter answers faster. rick scott is losing by 4 points in a hypothetical matchup against what party switching former governor.

>> oh, christie. oh. >> lawrence. >> that guy whose name i'm forgetting now, charlie kris. >> charlie kris is correct. on the board. that was the end of the round, be i the way. >> we are told not to hit the button. >> end of the 1st round. mj 200, lawrence o'donnell 100, todd zero. we move ahead to the second round. >> i got one. >> you lost one earlier angus king. >> minus. >> laziness is for the reward. we will not make it. mj has 300 i am told. 100 for your honor lawrence o'donnell. we move onto the 200 point. round now. put 100 second on the clock, according to surveys, three out of four americans agree with antonio scalia's assertion this week that what exists? >> oh. >> lawrence. >> god? >> incorrect. >> todd.

>> health. >> is that what he just said, god doesn't exist? >> more specific? yes, the seventh circle bell. >> we can't accept that, i'm sorry. >> what is more specific than hell? >> time. what is more specific the devil. specifically said the devil exists. a new poll says the majority of vote, approve of the u.s. senator's job performance in his solidly republican state. lawrence. >> mike lee, utah. i did the show, prep pays off. i told you. >> 40 years ago this past week, this man became the second vice president in u.s. history to resign. 40 years ago this week. todd. >> spirot.ing a new, steve. >> correct. >> after debateing his opponent on tuesday, a poll shows chris christie maintaining a lopsided lead and on course to be

reelected new jersey governor since whom? >> oh, a new jersey question. >> that is so hard. >> that's not fair. >> 3, 2, 1, the answer is christine todd whitman, 2001. 200 points, which 2012 presidential flameout remarked this week, quote, i have never done twerking in my life. >> michelle bachmann. >> correct. 200 point question. who was president of the united states when 82-year-old florida republican bill young who announced he is retiring from congress this week was first elected to office 22 terms ago? todd. >> it's math. it's a math question. dwight d. eisenhower, steve. >> incorrect. >> 3, 2, 1. >> arithmetic. >> carter. >> richard nixon is correct. >> that moves us to the end of the second round of play, mj with a healthy lead. 200 points, todd, negative 200.

we move down to the 300 point round. this is going to decide the winner. the game can change on one question here. 100 seconds on the clock to decide the game, president obama probably wouldn't be in the white house today if i had run against him in illinois in 2004 lamented what hall of fame nfl coach and broadcast er this week. >> mike ditka. >> iron mike is correct. of the 16 cabinet level agencies, the department, created as a part of lbj's great society in 1965, furloughed the largest percentage of its work force. lawrence. >> no, it isn't there, i was going to say education. >> yeah, it's not that. >> 3, 2, 1, time. it's hud. 300 points this high ranking republican congressman from oklahoma who is also a member of

the chickesau nation. >> i think they're ahead of me. >> todd has moved into the lead. mj him when they lost in four games to the los angeles dodgers this week, it marked the eighth consecutive time the atlanta braves made major league baseball's post-season without advancing, who was president of the united states when they won a series? >> sports questions aren't fair. adult questions only. >> time the correct answer is george w. bush if 2001. >> sports questions. >> a.of a former democratic for who is seek stock win the seat her father once held next year announced tuesday she had raised $1.7 million over the last three months. >> go ahead him. show off your political intelligence. >> todd. >> cleland, steve. >> incorrect. answer, time, todd, that would have won you the game, instead you fall to 100 points, j with 500 points.

you have won the game, lawrence o'donnell next negative 200. mj, congratulation, an exciting victory, bill wolf, tell her what she has won. >> as our champion, will you have your name printed in exquisite sharpee on the coveted up against the clock gold kentucky you get to take the toef home with you, show it off to friends, family, local school children for exactly one woke. you will receive an appearance this coming week on msnbc "the cycle" airing week dais, 3-4:00 p.m. eastern time. you get to play in our bonus round for a $50 gift certificate to little pony the most you a thntic eating and drinking experience in new york city's historic village. while there, get a tattoo or a piercing. back to you, steve. >> that is quite a prize package. mj, you may have unfinished busy before you collect all.

that i have in my hand the instant bonus question that could win you $50 in pierogies or other polish food. are you ready? >> i'm ready. >> for the bonus, we mentioned earlier spiroagnew was the second president to resign from office. who was the first? take your time. have you five seconds. >> i don't know. >> do you have a guess? >> i'm sorry. the correct answer was john c. calhoun back in the 19th century. >> you didn't want the polish food. >> sorry, you didn't win it. you get to keep your prize package. you are also in contention to play in our upcoming tournament of championles. let's show you our current leaderboard. these are the high scores. asterisks are contestants that won their game. mj, that means you will get

preferential treatment lawrence, todd, you might qualify, too. >> how? >> negative 200. >> i will say that's unlikely. lawrence, todd, will not leave us empty handed. you both get the home edition of up against the color by the way that, is now available on cd rom, one more way to bring the excitement into your livingroom. thanks to everyone for playing along. we will be back here next week for a battle of the ages. we go back to our regular programming. the house conference, we will talk to our panel and them if you there is a way out of this mess. that's all coming up next. never. the end. lovely read susan. but isn't it time to turn the page on your cup of joe? gevalia, or a cup of johan, is like losing yourself in a great book. may i read something? yes, please. of course. a rich, never bitter taste cup after cup.

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. >> this is what it looked like when the country went to the polls to elect the president 25

years ago. this is a county by county map. if you remember the bush-dukakis rachls you remember it wasn't that close. george bush won by 8 points t. broadcast networks went on the air on election night, the count was 81-0 for bush. it was a route the kind of route we haven't seen in a presidential election since then. you look at that county by county map, there is no surprise it's an ocean of red. more than 3,000 counties in america. mike dukakis won 118 of them. last year, barak barak wins a second term by 5 million votes, he nabs 332 electoral votes. it's a solid victory. for democrats, it is light years better than 1988. here's what that county by county map looks like. it looks like there is less blue on the 2012 map. let's put them side-by-side.

1980 in 2012, yes, you can see it there. there is more blue for 1988. the election democrats got crushed in than for 2012 the ones they won handily, the numbers bear it out. in 2012, barak barak carried 690 counties, 129 fewers counties than dukakis won in 1988. why are we showing you all this? we are showing you this because it illustrates what democrats are really up against if 2014. they try to win back control of the house t. popular explanation for why republicans have such an advantage when it comes to house elections, why they were able to hang onto the majority, even though they won more votes than they did is jury meandering, a preponderance of districts devated by legislatures. it's part of the reason republicans control the house now. why they're in a position to shut down the government and threat an default, why they are

insulated from paying a price at the polls in 2013. the bigger reason is that map, that county by county map. it shows us how geographically exact the coalition has become. there are now eenough votes to elect and reelect a democratic president. they are overwhelmingly concentrated in metropolitan areas. they are absent elsewhere. that's the real story. look at that map, cut it up into 435 districts. it would take a lot of work to make sure republicans don't have an advantage. population distribution is not a glamorous term. it's a big reason they are heavily favored. history is on the gop side. since the civil war the best the white house party has ever done in mid-term election is a gain of then house seats, that's half of the 17 need to win it back next year. yet, for all of this, it was hard to ignore another stat that made the news this week.

28%. that's how many voters say they have a favorable view of the republican party from a gallup poll on wednesday, that number, 28% is 15 points below the favorable score of the democratic party, ten points below where the gop was last month before the government shut down. it is, in fact the lowest score ever reported by either party by gallup. the only time they have been in the neighborhood of 28% is at the end of 1998 when the gop defied public opinion to impeach president bill clinton. in 1998, not consequence dentally the white house party, bill clinton's democrats actually gained seats. it was a shocking result. republicans were so shaken up, they gave newt gingrich the boot the next day. i'll be the first to point out the real structural and historical factors that made the idea of gaining house seats seemed far fetched. when i look at that gallup poll i pointed out earlier in the

show, it makes me stop and think, is there a point at which the gop could damage itself so badly it could pay a real political price in 2014. is this what that point looks like? still with us to talk about this is perry bacon, jr., msnbc's corinne carmone and todd zwillig, international take away. i said my piece there on this a week ago, i was saying even if this backfires against the republicans and they're losing the pr game, they're still really broekt protected in 2014. i don't think ago republicans certainly included, it's one of the reasons we expect the numbers would fall this low for them. >> they now have a year to recover, in politics, pom numbers create reaction. these numbers where so bad republicans have completely adjusted their strategy to deal

with them. they suns the senate republicans have taken the lead. mitch mcconnell is not bad, he was very conciliatory. we need to work together, build bridges, get things done. those poll numbers are showing you something. the republicans are reacting. i would say if it's 28% on election day in november, i think you are right. i do think the republicans will adjust and be less divisive. maybe that will change their numbers, get their numbers up some. in politics, if you are 28%, you can only go up, really. so they will figure out a way to go up. >> well, you look at a state like arkansas, prior did not have a lot going for him in terms of ways to go after tom cotton, now the shutdown is what going into almost the third week, we saw his recent ad saying what was tom cotton when the government allowed the shutdown to happen? he wasn't there to take the votes. clearly, this is giving some of the more vulnerable democrats

ammunition they didn't have before. he doesn't just have to be on the defensive anymore. he has things, like he can try to use to attack his opponent. >> here's another example of this, we got a pretty dramatic illustration of the potential for democrats. in some states at least this week, in virginia, a couple polls out this week, a governor's race in quinnipiac. terry mccoll, 8 points ahead of ted cuccinelli. attitudes on the shut down. shutting down government as a way of stopping health care reform. 71% say they're against it. 24% say they support it. i don't think there are a lot of states like this, todd, that like swing states anymore. back in the '90s, there were a ton of swing states. there's e here's swing states turning against the republicans. >> if it is skewed in northern virginia, the tide water region is all military, veterans,

active duarte, in terms of a shutdown question, virginia is unlike other states. there is so much government there. the other factor, in 2014, you mentioned the tightness of counties, the other things that democrats should be remembering is who comes out in a mid-term? it's a base election. there is nothing that's good about a 28% approval rating for republicans, surely, but if it were 2016 and they were looking at that, it would be an absolute disaster and it may spell disaster for 2016 if they can't get it together on immigration the shutdown will be forgotten i guess. they're insulated by the fact that the ted cruz's of the world and michelle bachmann even though she's not running. they love this stuff. it gets them out to the polls. they want to fight obama. traditionally, those are the ones that come out in mid-terms. not the people who just have,

who are politically active, pay a great deal of attention. that's important. >> we have been talking about it this morning the meeting of the house republicans, house republicans had a meeting. it is getting under way as we speak. we are lucky to be joined by one of the people. leonard lance, republican from new jersey, joins us from the capitol, congressman, thank you so much for taking a few minutes for show. i guess i should start, we have been discussing the basic parameters maybe reported as potentially being a part of the deal here which would be sort of crafted by the senate republicans, which would be a six-month reopening of the government funding for six months. the debt ceiling through the end of next january with a budget negotiation process between the house and senate playing out t. two-year delay of this medical device tax. that's what the senate republicans seem to be pushing. where do you come down on this? is this what you would like to see be the outcome of what is happening this weekend?

>> i would support that outcome. there are those of us in the house who are working on the medical device tax issue on part of a group, bipartisan in nature that's working on that. i certainly would support that proposal from the senate if na comes to us here in the house. >> let me back up for a minute, ask you, i have been asking this to a bunch of republicans, actually. why did we get the shutdown in the first place? if it end up being the two-year delays, it seems like an awfully small thing to shut the government down over. why did republicans say, we're okay with a shutdown? what is that really all about? >> i think we need stronger leadership, for example, i think the president should have come to the negotiating taishl table early yemplt i am pleased he is at the negotiating table. regarding the republicans, i would have preferred to have vote on an initial cr in july to get that process moving more

quickly than it has moved. i hope the shutdown can conclude as quickly as possible and certainly, steven, i do not want to default on any financial obligation of the united states. >> just one question, too, we have been talk sock much about the impact of the tea party on the republican party. we were talking before we brought you in about some of the polling, the damage done at least right now for the republican party in terms of the standing. when you look at the push on the right to defund obama care, to get rid of obama care, to use the threat of a shutdown or a default as a means to undermine obama care. can you talk about the pressure you feel and your brub colleagues feel from your base on that issue? that seems to be what's been driving this. >> i certainly this that obama care is not the way to proceed, but it is the law of the land. so at the very least, i think it should be modified. the medical device tax repeal is something in which i have been working, not only do i support

it, i have worked on that, that's very important to new jersey, the state i represent and the district i represent. and regarding default on our financial obligations, i have stated explicitly and repeatedly as has speaker boehner that under no circumstances should the united states default on its obligations? >> representative, corinne carmone from msnbc.com. you described yourself as a main stream republican. what does that mean and are you doing anything to stand up to the more extreme elements in your caucus? >> let me say i try to be a colleague to everybody in our caucus, regarding my positions of public policy as a main stream republican, i certainly believe under no circumstances should this government ever default on its obligations and regarding the shutdown, i want it to be concluded as quickly as possible. my views are well known in the caucus. i met with a group of house members. i think there were six of us

last week with speaker boehner i certainly made my views known. >> todd zwillig from the take away radio here. insofar as this isn't about obama care anymore and it might be about entitlements. if there is going to be a budget negotiation, which so many people say they have wanted for so long. it comes down once again to cuts to social security and medicare for republicans in exchange to revenue for democrats and the president, are you willing to gather together your main stream republicans and put pressure on speaker ban tore go for the revenue side of the deal, which hasn't materialized for these so many years and try to get that through finally? >> i would respectfully disagree with that. revenue has increased this year based upon the compromise that was reached at the beginning of the year. i voted for that compromise. >> they want to vote for it again, of course. >> it extended if bush tax cuts for 98% of tax filers.

and i think that the best indication of where we might be on this comes from paul ryan's excellent op-ed piece in the "wall street journal" several morning, ago and i think that he is really taken the lead in that regard. i don't know whether there can be entitlement reform in the course of this weekend. certainly, i want to pursue that moving forward. regarding the compromise that will be reached, i hope as quickly as possible this weekend, i would imagine the medical device tax repeal or perhaps not letting it come into existence for two years or something leak that, it's probably the way we are going to be proing. >> congressman, before you go, i want to ask you one more sort of philosophical question about this idea of using, the bake idea of using the threat of a default as a political tool. as a tool to extract concessions from the other side t. president is saying this is a bottom line why, he wants to establish or reestablish the principle, the

opposition doesn't do that. i imagine a republican president would feel the exact same way. do you think house republicans, if and when we emerge from this, that norm will sort of have been altered. we will not have another, the debt ceiling used like this again in the future? >> as i understand american history. i try to be an american student of history, steve, there have been discussions reducing the debt ceiling in the past back to the time of dwight d. eisenhower. i have voted to raise the ceiling, i explained to my constituents why it's important not to default on our obligations. i would point out when president obama was in the united states senate in 2006 as i recall, he did not vote to raise the debt ceiling. i have tried to be responsible on this issue. let me repeat, steve, under no circumstances do i ever want to default on any obligations, not only the payment of interest on treasury bills, but to our

contractors, to those within whom the federal government engages in contracts. we should pay all our bills. >> congressman, i appreciate the time. i hear this something of barak barak from 2006, brought up all the time. i'm not going to say this was a profile encouraged to cast that vote if 2006. i don't think he should have cast that vote. but the difference was, it really was, in effect, a symbolic vote. there was no threat attached to it, no concerted movement by democrats, by the opposition if 2006 to say we are going to actually use our power to allow a default if we don't get x. it was a symbolic protest, a campaign for what they were looking for. we seem to have moved into a different territory. doesn't that alarm you a threat attached this time? >> as i recall in 2006 the vote was quite close perhaps 52-48. i don't know exactly. >> it was a party line vote, though, republicans controlled the senate. i'm not defending it. but they did not attach a real threat to it. >> i want to move forward making

sure we do not default on our obligations and i hope now that if president is at the negotiating table, government will reopen as quickly as possible and we should move forward, making sure that we can fund programs in a responsible way that will meet budgetary reform and also making sure we pay our bills on time. >> all right. congressman, i remember you. i covered you when you were the republican senate leader in new jersey. i appreciate the time. thanks for the update. >> thank you for having me on your program, steve. >> we will pick it right back up with the panel right after this. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes. but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes! you want to run through it again? no, i'm good. you got it? yes. rates for us and them -- now that's progressive. call or click today.

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. >> so, you know, we are talking about the potential deal, the theme of the show. we will find out a lot more. er that meeting right now t. house will be in session, too. it strikes me that it's even the

basic tension we are talking about playing out here, this whole idea of using the shutdown and the threat of a default to make a real dent in obama care. it is not going to happen. i wonder after going through all this, watching the parties get dragged through the mud. ted cruz the guy that led them into this, right into this, if hess standing in the party could be diminished. you took a huge price. you don't have much to show for it. the influential comments, laura ingram's radio show, this was him talking about ted cruz just yesterday. >> how exactly was it akeefd? abolition of obama care? explain that to me. has he ever explained it? and where is he now? his sidekick, senator low said, oh, we're past obama care. we've moved on. i mean, you know, these are the

generals, it's the battle of little bighorn and then go home and have lunch and leave the troops out there? where are they? where are the generals? what is their strategy for the abolition of obama care? >> i heard it yesterday. it happened on thursday, are we watching sort the? i know a lot of conservatives have been privately quietly without their names attached it to saying nasty things ability ted cruz, they don't like him. they haven't felt safe to say it. are we seeing a turning point where there is a marginalization of ted cruz on the right? >> i think the concerns of what folks like ted cruz is doing to the party and the party's image, those concerns have always been there. it's obviously a tricky position for ted cruz's colleagues to come out and say we think he is doing is not good. you look at someone like marco rubio clearly eyeing 2016, he can't come out and be seen as someone not an allie of ted cruz, especially after all of

the immigration debates. he, you foe, obviously suffered with the tea party grass roots movement. i think that, you know, it's been interesting to see how he has clearly been positioning himself for 2016, coming out strong, sort of trying to rebuild his image as a true conservative when all the ted cruz standoff and the filibuster was happening on obama care. i think that was very interesting to see for 2016. >> wasn't marco rubio fascinating to this long run judgment after that, marco rubio being an early allie on the senate floor, a vote for a cr that funds obama care is a vote for obama care. he was on board. have you seen him since? >> where has he been? >> where has he been? which is an object lesson in what mj is talking about. it was important for a presidential hopeful to be on the side of the right and on the side of right going into a

potential republican primary. he said the right things, got out on the senate floor as an allie of what ted cruz was doing. i haven't seen him since. >> sorry. go ahead. >> i was going to say, i don't think ted cruz has made it clear from the start he doesn't care what columnists think. he doesn't care what senate leadership thinks. yesterday, he explicitly said, we're going to go over the head of senate republicans. he believes as long as the grass roots is behind him, if problem is, if no one told the grass roots they can't get everything they want, those leaders came out and said, we will repeal obama care. the debt limit, they're going to say that's not a real default. they're telling their grass roots they're in a fantasy land. they can get everything they want. they don't care about a long-term strategy as long as they hear what they want and it ob secures that nothing is changing. >> that is exactly what we see happen today, this weekend, there seems to be an emerging i

guess like a consensus among republicans, we are not at this whole obama care, that's what the script says, i don't think the grass roots knows that at all. >> as long as they support ted cruz, why does he have to change his strategy? >> it will be hard for ted cruz to be the republican nominee in 2016. if he wants to have a career, he's the leader in the senate, wants to have a fox news show, i think he is doing fine. i don't think he's marginalizing himself with the basis i think you are right, where this deal goes, i'm not sure conservatives in the country have accepted the nbc news-"wall street journal" poll will be powerful to us. i'm not sure leaders in texas or so on, we should watch them before this deal goes on. >> places where the favorable score a lot higher in. >> jim is doing great. ruffled feathers in not quite as

badly as this, in a lot of the same way ted cruz is doing, left the senate, jim demint is kneeham capping himself with republicans forever. >> his power was always more outside the senate than inside it. there are, believe it or not, there are two big elections coming up in the next few days. we will mention them and talk about them, more than mention them, we're going to talk about them.

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running through my town, seeing the pollution and contaminants that wouldn't allow people to swim and eun industries, trust me, we need to make sure there are protections. >> we may not be able to swim in that river. i think it's the bodies from shooting victims in your city. >> oh my god! oh my god. >> yeah, oh my god, oh my god!. >> oh my god the final debate between booker and lanegavnl we will preview that election and the most memorable political ad of the year. we will find out if it actually worked ahead. yo, yo, yo. aflac. wow. [ under his breath ] that was horrible. pays you cash when you're sick or hurt? [ japanese accent ] aflac. love it. [ under his breath ] hate it. helps you focus on getting back to normal? [ as a southern belle ] aflac. [ as a cowboy ] aflac. [ sassily ] aflac. uh huh. [ under his breath ] i am so fired.

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jcron: i'm sorry, who are you?nt we all like? jc: i'm your coworker! c'mon guys. i'm driving. hey, you guys comfortable? it's best-in-class rear legroom. and with a turbo engine that gets 35 highway m-p-g. you know j.d. power ranked passat the most appealing midsize car two years in a row? i bet, uh, dan here wishes somebody found him most appealing two years in a row. ron: it's ron jc: ron... exactly. vo: get 0 down, 0 due at signing, 0 deposit, and 0 first month's payment on passat or any new 2014 volkswagen. >> you know, not everything in politics is shut down. there are disastrous things outside walk. nearly 90 hours on a wednesday polls open in new jersey, the steshl e special elections for the new york senate.

new york mayor cory booker is widely expected to win this one. steve lonergan fired his top staff. >> that interview went up last night. this week they squared off in a very contentious final deba it. >> look at what he has coming in, he talks about hollywood folks. look who he has, he has three tea party people coming in, sarah palen endorsing him, rand paul? oh, yeah, rick perry endorsing him. >> all that income tax and sales tax money gets thwarted to newark. the biggest portion of our income tax dollars goes to newark, new jersey. >> against the backdrop of the shutdown, it's a gathering of social activists meeting in d.c., ted cruz, rand paul, mark 82 rubio, those are the usual suspects when it comes to the

2016 race, except one conspicuous race chris christie, they suspect he has been too cozy with obama. organizers tony perkins said, quote, we only invited conservatives we work w. we got two interesting new jersey rooted stories, one about the special election coming up, chris christie, clearly is positioning himself for 2016. i guess, let's start with the booker-lonergan thing. i would guess cory booker would be safe. we had this interview his consultant gave last night. if you have seen any of this, it was unbelievable. maybe he didn't know he was going on the record. no excuse for saying it. mj, how does cory booker look coming out of this race? has he been tarnished? people look at him differently? are we locking at the rising star? >> i think if cory booker wantings to get to the senate

and be considered a serious legislator, he has to sort of take his hand off twitter, not be as focused on doing the tv hits. a lot of senators that get to the senate after having a bit of a following and being, you know, very popular in terms of doing a lot of media, elizabeth warren is a great example. she got to the senate and kept her head down. her aids will say, her strategy is very clear. she wants to focus solely on the issues that matter to her. with someone like cory booker, it will be interesting to see, will he carve out and build his brand as a legislator or will he sort of continue being the person he has been up to this point? shove eling people's driveways. being involved with the constituents. it's not the same thing when you get to the senate. >> the hillary clinton model reaching the senate. one of the most famous

politicians in america and the world. does anybody remember about her stint to the senate? >> other than voting for the iraq war. >> great point, actually. that was the vote. hillary clinton's tenure in the senate was marked by her keeping her head down, she had enormous star power. a celebrity, running for president. and she was rank and file when she was in the senate. >> see, what i wonder about booker,io enif he will be able to say no, the meet the press syndications, the sunday shows the up invitation, that has been a sort of a big part of the brand has been through the media. >> he won the special election, he has to run again next year in 2014. i think i know before i talked to his aids, he planned a lot of ways to campaign next year the way obama did in 2006. the way when hillary was in the senate. i'm not sure can you do that

anymore. it looks like he is not as popular as i anticipated. he probably watches back in the state and there is not a lot of great republicans in new jersey to run. i knew he had to be careful how does he manage his, doesn't go watching the world. not as twitter, in terms of making sure he is focused on what new jersyans care about. >> what about chris christie? he is coming out. he had to worry about new jersey. he is probably a month away from winning the election. when you look at something like this, with the value this week. he snubbed, that will play well in new jersey. there is no question, he has immediately been thinking about the republican nominee for president, where do you think he stands with that? >> i think we are talking about tactical and stylistic difference not ideological difference, chris christie is a conservative. he posed with president obama after hurricane sandy. he did not radically change or

depart from what they believe. >> what is it? look at the poll voters. >> that's right. she a pro-life, one in new jersey, he is now fighting the gay marriage in the supreme court in new jersey. what is it that drives them nationally? people look at him and say he can win in the blue state, why would they go out of tear way to snub him? >> he hates president obama. the idea of them paling around is too heinous to them. >> it is. well, sort of obama phobia, that's been a big part of our politics. from nurnlgs i want to get this one, travel north to massachusettes, voting will happen on tuesday, not wednesday, which moans four days from now, we should know the most clever political ad in a long time has actually worked. it is the primary in a special election to replace ed marky in the house. seven democrats are running. at the start of the race, most would agree state representative carl sortino was around last place. that was when he hit political gold with this ad.

you probably remember it. he did a special coming out with his tea party father. >> i'm carl sortino. i will never forget that conversation with my daed. >> that's me. >> i had to tell him. >> wait for this. >> that i was massachusetts liberal. >> and he's proud of it. >> dad's in the tea party. >> dam right. >> he has been like this for 35 years. >> that's why i approve this message and i still love you, dad. >> me too, son. >> it was a great ad. it got a ton of viral attention and a ton of interviews. we had him on the show and the media environment we live in. it's almost forgotten. this is now a trip down memory lane. this is the ultimate test i think how effective a television ad can be. i think carl sortino, you lock at all the attention he got the mane he raised from it. i think we will find out next tuesday in this crowded primary field. can this win an election for you? >> it will not win the

election-on-for him based on the polk. there is a great, ads do help. i wonder every year, why are ads so boring? you know any add barak barak had, there was one about mitt romney singing. it was quite clever. beyond that, ads in politics, as people increasingly get media in a viral way. they don't watch television as much. having a god ad strategy is one all people think about. i'm steve kornacki, i believe in universal health care and so on. the ads are so far behind where you know businesses are, where our society is moving to. >> yeah, i this i the big winner here, no matter what happens with carl sortino. >> there are other more established candidates. there was another candidate, katherine clark endorsed by the boston globe. he is young, he has a future ahead of him if he wants to be involved in lbgt issues or on another scale. yes with renow talking aboutment

him. he has one in that respect. >> this is not a race where different candidates have different ideological stances, it's all about identity. if this ad helped in anyway to sort of help voters like him better, i think it's certainly an ad helpful for him. >> it wasn't a general election ad, i'll be real interested, if he gets 15 or 20%. it's a five-way race. 25% could win this. it was supposed to be the biggest achievement for president obama. it has nothing to do with the shutdown. it is going nowhere because of the shutdown. we will talk to one of the democrats trying to change that. that's right after this. (dad) just feather it out. that's right. (son) ok. feather it out. (dad) all right. that's ok. (dad) put it in second, put it in second. (dad) slow it down. put the clutch in, break it, break it. (dad) just like i showed you. dad, you didn't show me, you showed him. dad, he's gonna wreck the car! (dad) he's not gonna wreck the car. (dad) no fighting in the road, please. (dad) put your blinker on. (son) you didn't even give me a chance! (dad) ok. (mom vo) we got the new subaru because nothing could break our old one.

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their differences and come together would come true. the one issue they saw compromise is being in theirself interest. after all, barak barak had won 71% of the latino vote in the so-called post-election autopsy concluded that quote we must embrace and champion comprehensive immigration reform. there was early momentum, too. a comprehensive reform bill passed in july. even bill o'reilly was on board. >> the republican party has a lot to lose here. if it doesn't schmeiser i compromise, many hispanic voters will reject entirely in the future. that's reality. it is time for usa to pass immigration reform. >> then came summer recess, the government griendz to a halt, defund obama crusade, the shutdown, everything else, including immigration vanished from the radar. there used to be a gang of eight, a bipartisan plan to

merge with senates. now a gang of five. all republicans except for one abanded it. ed a votes staged a rally to remind the political world this major issue everyone said would be resolved is just as unresolved as ever. 100 peaceful protesters were arrested for blocking the capitol building. one of the arrested me, the rolling stone.com rebel with a cause is illinois congressman luis gutierrez. thank you for joining us. >> it's great to be with you. >> we set it up there where the momentum for immigration reform that seemed to be there 11 months ago after the election. it seemed to be there the start of the year, seems to have stalled out when you have republicans scared to touch this thing, leaving the gang of five. what is your strategy right now to get the being on track to get momentum to get a republican

house to pass real immigration reform in the next few months, a year, whatever it is. >> good question. so last saturday, over 160 events across the nation. you saw what happened on the mall this tuesday. look, i remember when i was at the white house stopping deportations alone. i invited other members. they didn't want to come. they didn't think it was an issue that they want. now we had eight. we were there with john lewis. look, we're not going away. the movement is stronger, more determined than ever. so you can't -- all of those blocks that were put together to pass in the senate the bills are still there and increasing in terms of their power and the broadness of the movement and the structure. so it's really dark. right. syria came. then the debt ceiling and the budget came the cr came.

but this cloud will dissipate. the sun will come back. what is it? the republican colleagues of mine will have to see? is they're going to have to dole with of activities that are going to take place across this nation. the immigrant community isn't giving up. let me give you a couple of really positive things so that we see where the momentum is going to take us. number one, 2007, 2008, '09, '10, democrats held a majority of 240 to 250 in the house of representatives. never, not once, did the democratic leadership ever engage in getting a bill passed. they are energetic about getting the bill passed now. they used to tell me, steve, why don't you go get 45, 50 republicans and i used to get four or five. now we're getting 40, 50. what we have found is even right-wing magazines, ideologically right wing, are talking about there are 80 to 90. it's there. it's a question of harvesting

it, and the only way we're going to harvest it is the -- >> that math, i'm interested to hear who those 80 or 90 are, because that math doesn't seem to mesh with the trajectory of this thing, in the senate, 15 republicans in the senate -- it wasn't a majority of the republicans, but it was a big number in today's day and age. and in the house is the opposite, gang of eight in the house has become a gang of five because republicans are running away with it. and it feels like the story of the year in the house, and this relates to the shutdown, too, is republicans from districts, they don't look like the rest of america. all these demographic changes we're talking about nationally are not playing out in these republican house districts, so where is the momentum to get those republicans onboard for something like this? >> sure. the momentum is in the street. the momentum was shown last tuesday. it's a momentum that isn't going to dissipate. i think the country should know and understand that every day 1,100 people are deported.

we're going to soon mark the point of 2 million deportations since barack obama assumed the presidency of the united states. this is not an issue that can be waited for. this isn't something that, oh, well no damage is done. we'll just wait a few more months. no, the damage is consistent, persistent in our community, our immigrant community. so look, the republican -- there are many. one day maybe we'll see. i know today there are 40 to 50 republicans that are ready to vote for comprehensive immigration reform. what we have to do is get speaker boehner to allow a vote on that. and how do we get that? i think by making sure that we marshal our forces and make sure the republican party understands you can't walk away from this one, that there is a demographic tsunami that you're going to have to deal with that is angry, but it's anxious, for an answer on immigration reform. and you're going to have to give them one, or suffer really dire consequences.

look, if the republican party wants to be a party of localities, of provinces of a few states, fine, don't do comprehensive immigration reform, because you will never be able to do it again. 2,000 latinos turn 18 every day in america, and that's 2,000 more voters. we know millions, 2 million more vote between each election cycle for president. it's going to happen. >> okay. very confident words there. we thank you, congressman luis gutierrez from illinois. thanks for joining us, and we'll be right back with closing thoughts. ♪ [ woman #2 ] to share a moment. ♪ [ man #1 ] to remember my grandmother. [ woman #3 ] to show my love. ♪ [ woman #4 ] because life needs flavor. ♪ [ woman #5 ] to travel the world without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish. make it delicious with swanson. [ woman #1 ] that's why i cook.

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very busy day in washington, a lot happening. that house republican meeting is still going on. democrats held a press conference, it's an unfolding story, please, stick with msnbc for all the twists and turns today. in the meantime, my thanks to all my guests. thanks for getting up and thank you for joining us today for "up." join us tomorrow. up next, melissa harris-perry.

the trouble with zombies is there are always more zombies. honestly, that's all they gave me for this tease. you'll have to stick around and find out what that's about. the zombie show with melissa harris-perry. see you tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. thank you for getting "up." ♪ [ male announcer ] maybe you've already heard what they're saying about the nissan altima. ♪ and we have to admit, that it's all true. but don't just take their word for it, check it out for yourself.

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this morning my question, can you get salmonella from the shutdown? and brain-eating ameba invades indiana. plus, justice scalia believes in the devil and thinks he's very busy these days. but first, if you think devils, salmonella, brain-eating amebas are scary, wait till you see "dawn of the debt." good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. all right. so the thing about zombies, besides the rotting flesh and all that, they are really