congress is capable of rising to this occasion. here's where we are for those trying to keep track at home without getting a migraine. we are heading into week three of the government shutdown and this thursday is the next big crisis, the day we hit our heads on the debt ceiling and potentially send this country careening into default for the first time in our history. negotiations are now focused on senate leadership on both sides of the aisle. two men not known for their warm and fuzzy friendship, senators harry reid and mitch mcconnell are the last best hope. can they succeed so far where everybody else hasn't. >> all of us are talking about spending, which is where we should have been in the first place. and i do sense tremendous amounts of unity within senate republicans. >> so wall street does not seem to be sharing that optimism. stocks opened sharply lower this morning after a weekend that went nowhere in washington. >> the whole financial world is looking at us right now and we can governor ourselves. we've just got to put our country first. we came here for a purpose. >> so for now the government is

still closed and the next crisis is coming and the financial world is moving from caution, concern, now to serious worry. here's a result of this one combined mess. it covers, look at this, the "new yorker" saying congress is the haunted house. speaking of ghosts of the past, look who revealed herself in washington this weekend, sarah palin was at senator ted cruise's side at a rally at the world war ii memorial. >> how do you tell you're losing in american politics? sarah palin is standing right beside you. that's how you tell you're losing in this game. >> joining me right now is nbc capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. kelly, break it down, the progress or lack thereof that's been made over the weekend and where do we stand now to potentially get out of this mess? >> while everyone is talking about signs of optimism, the practical prg ogress is hard to measure right now. leader reid and leader mcconnell, while they don't have the fuzziest relationship, they are tactically skilled and are charge of this.

they met saturday morning, they had one phone call on sunday. i've checked this morning and so far no communication, although it's expected they will talk today. how do you measure that? well, the timing is so important, thomas, because as we get closer and closer to that thursday deadline, the pressure does continue to build. and one of the things that senator corker talked about is this is really now about spending. and one of the positives in that is if you are debating over numbers, there's a way to meet in the middle. when the issue was changes to the health care law as the main issue that house republicans were putting forward, there's just not an easy way to meet in the middle on that, especially when the president is not going to gut his own signature piece of legislation. so with that, a much de-emphasized issue now, if you're talking about budget, how much should the government spend in the weeks and months ahead and for how long should a due debt limit, how long should that last. that's the real question. an those are things that involve numbers and a calendar. and there is a potential for

them to meet somewhere in the middle. thomas. >> nbc's kelly o'donnell keeping an eye on all things congress. kelly, thanks so much. joining me right now is democratic senator from montana, jon tester. sir, it's good to have you here. the senate reconvenes in just a couple hours from now. this morning's "washington post" is suggesting that the troubled relationship between harry reid and mitch mcconnell could be the thing holding up this deal. we know senator harry reid wants to weed this sequester into this deal. you've warned that this is like playing with fire. are democrats in danger of overplaying their hand because of the polls showing republicans are taking the bulk of the blame? >> well, i think ultimately what needs to happen at this point in time, and it's unfortunate what we've gotten to this point, is that we need to get a plan that's going to work for the country and give some predictability to the economy moving forward. look, both harry and mitch are adults here. they understand the impacts of fooling around with this debt ceiling.

i am hopeful and somewhat confident that they're going to come up with an agreement that will put this country on sound economic grounds. if they don't, then i think we've got some serious problems that are going to make what happened with lehman in 2008 look pretty good actually. >> you know, bipartisan plan, it was put forth by your colleague, susan collins, it was shot down by senate majority leader reid. her plan would have reopened the government, extended the debt ceiling, delayed a medical device tax and upped the requirement for obama care income verification. she had six democrats on her side, including joe manchin, who's been very vocal about this, appeared on "morning joe" today. take a look. >> i don't know why people don't grab something that already has attracted bipartisan. that's why susan's plan that we've worked with together and all of us working together is a good template. it takes into consideration everybody's needs and concerns,

but it also does no harm, it really helps move the ball forward. >> sir, do you think that the senate majority leader should have given this plan more consideration? >> i think what harry needs to do is work on a plan that's going to help move this economy forward. sequestration, by most folks' account, is done very little as far as moving this economy forward. and i think that if you talk to the economists, if you talk to policy makers back here, they will tell you that our economy needs to get popping if we're going to get our deficit and debt under control. if we can get a plan going forward this addresses our deficit and debt and addresses the fallacy of sequestration, i think we can have a good plan moving forward. i think that's what harry is looking at. i applaud harry working with mitch to get something that we can get passed in the senate and get over to the house. what the house does with it, i'm not so certain. but hopefully common sense will prevail and we'll get a long-term plan to move the economy forward and address our deficit and debt. >> i like your language of get

popping here because it's what's needed with the time not on everybody's side but senator john mccain brought up vice president joe biden this weekend. had a warning for democrats as well. i want to show everybody, take a look. >> democrats, they better understand something. what goes around comes around. and if they try to humiliate republicans, things change in american politics, and i know what it's like to be in the majority and in the minority. and it won't be forgotten. maybe we need to get joe biden out of the witness protection program. >> all right, so mccain talking about political karma. so how can your party get more deal makers at the table, like the vice president, who was pivotal at the last impasse? >> this -- let me just say this, thomas. this is a problem that was created by congress that needs to be solved by congress. if we want to bring the executive branch in, we can. but the fact of the matter is this was a man made problem created by some pretty poor decisions on some folks' part in the senate and in the house. we need to fix the problem that we've created.

we shouldn't be looking to somebody else to fix it. we should be looking to ourselves to fix it and i think that's why i'm encouraged by harry and mitch's conversations. >> is the president showing -- i know you said you don't want the executive branch to get involved because this is a congressional mess. but for those people that would finger point at the president, has he provided the leadership necessary to show an exit route? >> i think the president has done exactly what he needed to do and that was that he was not going to be put at a point where somebody was going to hold a gun to his head and he was going to have to make decisions based on that kind of -- that kind of situation. so i think the president has done what he needs to do. the truth of the matter is, that folks over in the house haven't acted like adults and some of the folks in the senate have followed. >> senator jon tester, we'll let you get to work. get popping back there on the hill, sir. >> thanks. >> later this hour we'll get an opinion from the other side of the i'll, republican congressman reid ribble will be my guest. mitch mcconnell and rand

paul say their state does not want obama care but the numbers tell a different story. we'll talk to kentucky's governor of why people are signing up at a rate of 1,000 a day. also can kentucky be a model for other states and susan collins jumps into the male-dominated huddle trying to make a deal in washington. our agenda panel will jump into why more women, specifically republican women are stepping up to the plate. that leads to today's big question. do you think that we'd be able to reach a debt deal sooner if more women, if women in general were in charge of these negotiations? weigh in on twitter and facebook. we're back after this.

there's growing anger this morning over the death of a young philadelphia student and it's placing the spotlight on the city's school budget crisis. sixth grader la portia massey

died from complications of asthma. budget cuts in the district has restricted the school to a nurse just two days a week. but the american federation of teachers contends the schools would have more cash on happened if the state's republican governor would release $45 million in federal funds ear marked for the sdrichblgt joining me is randi weingarten. it's good to have you here. i know you penned a letter to pennsylvania's governor specifically about that money saying we'll never know if having a school nurse onsite could have spared la portia's life but school nurses are trained to detect symptoms of asthma attacks. mr. governor, we can do better and we must. have you gotten a response to that letter? and where does that money sit in perpetuity? >> of course i haven't gotten a response to it. you know what, this is what angers me about this. look, i am an asthmatic myself and so we don't know if a school nurse would have saved la portia's life, but a school

nurse is trained to detect the invisible symptoms of asthma, because asthma just constricts your lungs. so somebody can look like it's not an emergency, they're not blue in the face, but your lungs are getting more and more and more constricted. and that's what a school nurse can do that those of us who are, you know, regular school teachers will not be able to do. but what has happened in that $45 million is that bob brady and others in washington were able to get that money to the school system in philadelphia, no strings attached. but because it has to go through the state, then corbett, the governor, put strings on it. this money should go to schools so we have school nurses, so we have guidance counselors, so the kids actually have a decent start in life. >> and specific to laportia's case, the spokesman for bryan elementary school told a local paper, quote, you see that a child is not breathing, you will call 911. that's the same situation you will have in any location, a

mall, a school, a day care center. he goes on to say the emergency actually happened at laportia's home so it is fair to blame budget cuts. as we look at the budget cuts here, because she did show symptoms at school but she did not show the major symptoms until home and her father got to take her to the hospital. but i know that the adult in the room at the school who was noticing her symptoms, they called home a couple times, they couldn't get somebody, but they didn't have a school nurse to take her to. >> exactly. they don't have a school nurse. that's why i'm saying that this meant so much -- look, one out of 11 people nationally have asthma. one out of five kids in philadelphia have asthma. asthma is a silent killer. but what happens with asthma is that you are not going to see -- people who are not trained medically are not going to see the symptoms, and so if you call 911 with a child saying i can't breathe and she's breathing, 911 is not going to come. >> here's the bigger thing,

randi, with schools having a nurse two days a week are kids supposed to plan the days their kids get sick. so most parents take refuge their kids are going to school and professionals will be taking care of their child. i know these nurses are disappearing across the country, that is we look in major cities, los angeles has reduced school nursing staff by 13%, cleveland laid off 55%. in philly it's one nurse for every 1500 students. san diego has cut half its school nurses. bottom line, are schools compromising the safety of the kids, the lives of the kids because of these budget cuts? >> yes, absolutely. so when we see the effects of sequestration, when we see the effects of the $1 billion budget cut that corbett did to the philly schools, this is the evidence of it. so how many times can we keep on saying give us that $45 million so kids can have school nurses and guidance counselors and their extracurricular activities back and their enrichment back.

that's what government is supposed to do. it's supposed to invest in kids, not try to point fingers when a child's life has been snuffed out. >> yeah, this is really sad for the massey family especially, but to know for so many kids they don't have a school nurse, it's kind of ridiculous. keep us posted if you get a letter or any type of response from the governor. >> i will. >> randi weingarten, great to have you here, as always. so she vanished on a family holiday six years ago. why british police are launching a new push in the disappearance of madeleine mccann. and a woman on a breast cancer walk ends up dangling 22 feet from a railroad bridge. we'll show you how she was able to get down safely. ay. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before,

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covered by most insurance plans, including medicare. ask your health care provider about levemir® flexpen today. you keep the peace. we calm your congestion and pain. [ man ] thank you. thank you. [ female announcer ] you rally the team. you guys were awesome. [ female announcer ] we give you relief from your cough. you give them a case of the giggles. tylenol cold® helps relieve even your worst cold and flu symptoms, so you can carry on with your day. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol cold®. so we know the republicans have been bashing obama care for months, even years, and senator minority leader mitch mcconnell and senator rand paul, both of kentucky, wrote a recent op-ed saying obama care might sell in

new york but kentuckians aren't buying it. the governor's office says people are signing up at a rate of 1,000 a day. as of 9:00 a.m. this morning, almost 11,000 people have signed up. joining me now is kentucky governor steve beshear. you are a governor of a red state, a democrat of a red state. we haven't heard any numbers coming out from the federal government about enrollment nationwide. we know there have been a lot of glitches in the federal exchange system so explain what kentucky has done differently. your system is called connect. explain how you've been able to make it work. >> thomas, we worked on it for a long time. we did a lot of planning. we took every planning grant that the federal government offered. we got ready, pulled all of our folks together, coordinated it well and it's working. as you've mentioned, we've had 225,000 people as of 9:00 this morning swarming all over that website. we're signing people up about

1,000 a day to get affordable health care. so it's working in kentucky. >> all right, so you talk about it working because of the preparation that went into it. you basically pushed through to make sure that this happened, against republican roadblocks that were happening in your state. we know a lot of republican governors around the country, they have not been, shall we say, lit on fire to make this fire. but connect had so much traffic on the first day, the system went down in about six hours. you all had to provide more servers to deal with that surge. were you surprised at the overwhelming response especially when the drum beat from the right kentucky senators, rand paul and mitch mcconnell say kentuckians don't want this? >> on october 1, it was probably the most exciting day of my governorship. you know, this is not a political decision for me, it's a moral decision. we've got 640,000 uninsured kentuckians. our health statistics are awful. and they have been awful ever since they started keeping health statistics. and so if i had an opportunity to finally get every kentuckian

to have access to health care, we needed to do so. it's economically the right decision. i had a study done by pricewaterhouse coopers, it is going to create a $15 billion positive impact over the next eight years and 17,000 new jobs. so both from an economic standpoint and from a moral standpoint, it's simply the right thing to do. >> one of the criticisms of the federal exchange, users have to create the account before they can surf for the plans that they want. it actually makes the sign-up longer and more complicated. what would your suggestions be? again, you've been doing this since october 1st. so you've got time and successful time under your belt. what do you suggest the federal system could do to be improved? >> well, obviously we're not experiencing the volume that they're experiencing. and in their defense, i think that nobody ever expected when they first got this bill into

law that 37 states would just fall back and let the federal government do it. so i know they're working hard. they'll make it work. you know, glitches are going to happen. when you've got millions of people like they do from all over the country, it's going to be a lot of glitches. but we've got a good long time to get this done and it's going to happen. we're going to get eventually all 640,000 of those kentuckians enrolled or in medicaid. you know, we're the only southern state that is both expanding medicaid and running our own health benefit exchange. and i'll tell you, it's going to put us in a better competitive position. we're going to be better off than a lot of these other states. we're going to be more competitive. we're going to have a workforce that will help bring business into this state and create more jobs. i'm excited about it. >> kentucky governor steve beshear. sir, thank you for joining us. again, more states can learn about connect's success just by looking at your example, so

thank you. >> thank you. here's a look at some of the other stories topping the news for you. british authorities are reporting a man has been arrested trying to enter buckingham palace carrying a knife. that man, who authorities describe as british, is in police custody. no one was injured and the queen was not at the palace. british police investigating the 2007 disappearance of 3-year-old madeleine mccann have now released two new composite drawings of a man they want to question about her suspected abduction. police say they have a more detailed reconstruction of what happened around her disappearance and the timeline and version of the events has significantly changed. madeline's parents, who were initially regarded as suspects, spoke out on british tv. >> the person who has gone into the apartment and taken a little girl away from her family. >> police say all 19 boys who went missing from a new mexico ranch for troubled youth are with their families. the teens, ages 13 to 17 were reported missing after police executed a search warrant at the ranch. they were investigating reports that boys were being beaten,

shackled for days and denied food. a terrifying ordeal for a woman on a breast cancer walk ends well in florida. look at this video. this is a picture of the woman holding on for dear life underneath a drawbridge. it lit up twitter over the weekend. she held on for an hour before firefighters came to her rescue with a 24-foot ladder. still no word on how she originally got stuck, although some are speculating this could have been a stunt. and the george clooney/sandra bullock outer space dramatic soared to the top of the box office for the second week in a row. "captain phillips" the true story of a cargo captain who protected his crew after he was hijacked by somali pirates came in number two. it grossed $26 million in its opening week. ♪ gravity is working against me ♪

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but we have to do that without being in the midst of crisis moment and without jeopardizing our full faith and credit. >> all right, so the house is scheduled to go back into session in just about a half hour from now. with no break in the gridlock, the co-chairs of president obama's deficit commission are taking action. erskine bowles and alan simpleson are launching a new ad tomorrow to tout their solution of fixing the debt. >> for crying out loud, erskine, who's not fed up with what's going on in washington? >> these politicians are playing games. >> ignoring all the long-term problems we face. >> al, it's going to take some real political courage for folks to start working together. >> joining me now is republican congressman reid ribble. sir, it's great to have you here. they're talking about more people joining together and working together. we saw congressman peter king on "morning joe" today also saying that this cannot go on. basically giving the same message about trying to work together and breaking through

some of the rhetoric. take a listen. >> we, as republicans, have to anticipate there's going to be another one of these in six weeks or eight weeks or three months, whatever it is. we just can't have republicans, national republicans credit sieg -- criticizing the system or saying this was the wrong decision to make. we have to anticipate that ted cruz is going to try to do this again. ted cruz and 30 or 40 people in the house. we have to start going after him my name. i've been doing it all along. i wish i had more company on it. >> hearing more about ted cruz there, calling him out by name. i know you've been very vocal saying it's crazy talk for some of your republican colleagues to think about defaulting on our nation's debt. why is there a small group that seems to have john boehner's control? >> i don't know that that's necessarily a totally accurate description. you have to have 218 votes in the house of representatives to pass anything. you could make the same argument over in the senate. i'm kind of an equal opportunity

basher, bipartisan basher on this whole thing. >> do you think if a clean cr went to the floor it wouldn't have the votes? >> i'm not sure at this point because everything has moved toward answering the big question, which is now the debt limit. i think we need to stay focused on that, because the big systemic threat that we have this week. i think we've got to move off of the conversation on the cr and actually focus on the real issue, which is the debt limit. you can do both of these at one time, but i'm more concerned about getting an agreement on the debt limit. and i actually have a tendency to agree with erskine bowles and alan simpson on the philosophy that we have to deal with the big long-term threats that face this country. that's where we need to come together. and by the way, there are a lot of sidebar meetings going on in the house of representatives with republicans and democrats that are outside of leadership, trying to find a path forward. there's a lot of discussions that i think are actually constructive and instructive for the american people because they're happening out of sight and out of mind. but in reality, they are starting to shape the debate a

bit. >> all right, so let's talk about where that debate is being shaped. as you point out, it's almost putting the cart before the horse the fact that we're now dealing with the debt ceiling in a government shutdown mode. however, you feel that dealing with the debt ceiling at this point is a true pivot point for the nation's economy and it's sending the wrong message internationally. explain. >> well, i think that we have to demonstrate internationally that we can actually function and we can govern ourselves here. but both sides have dug in their heels and both sides would make an argument that they have got good reasons for digging in their heels. but the reality is that the american people suffer and the economy suffers when both sides dig in so harshly. i've got my own opinions and i'm a very conservative guy and my voting record bears that out but i'm at a pragmatist and i realize that we've got to actually get around and get to the real point here. the debt limit is simply a symptom of a bigger problem where revenues and spending are

out of balance. we've got to somehow get those back in balance and we have to look at the biggest expenses that the government faces, which are they center around the health care arena and retirement plans. when i talk about retirement plans, i would include social security in there. that's where all the money is going. >> talking about the full slate of entitlements here. ted cruz and sarah palin attended a rally over the weekend at the world war ii vets memorial. they pretty much stoked the public anger over the shutdown. akin to working to close a grocery store and then being outraged that the bread aisle is closed. at that rally there were people carrying confederate flags, calling president obama a muslim. these are the voices that are showing up and with the faces of the republican party, you know, branches of it anyway, ted cruz and certainly sarah palin has a following, but these people are showing up with your brand stamped on them. are you worried about that and what it means for your party going forward? >> sure, i'm worried about it. i'm always worried about the

brand, because i think we can damage the brand. we ought to be the party that is actually looking out for today's current seniors and tomorrow's future seniors, children like my two grandsons, ben and joseph, they deserve a government that can actually solve these problems. what we need to do is get everyone to set their sword down for a minute and actually have a grownup conversation. i think all the bomb throwing, whether it's coming from the right or coming from the left is counter productive to a negotiation that's required. and quite frankly, i don't know that the president has actually led much in this deal because he has this kind of i'm a negotiating nonnegotiator and i don't think that that's particularly helpful either. we need to have everybody at the table and we need to have the reasonable reasoned voices at the table so that we can find some solution here. >> sir, i think people will relate to this, that you're worried about your grandkids and many people feel the same way. but people like me are worried about their parents who are on fixed incomes and rely on social security. so all these people that have

paid in, all of these years their entire lifetime, has been invested into this promise and now this is what they get. >> yeah, and my concern here, quite frankly, for your parents is that the promise gets broken. and my brother passed away december 31st and he was on social security disability income. that was his whole source of income. but that fund goes insolvent in 2016. so to stick our heads in the sand and say we can't address it doesn't help your mom and dad, didn't help my brother and wouldn't help my grandchildren. we have to actually face up to the fact that there have been promises made. we have a massive shift in demographics. and your parents and my grandkids deserve the same types of protection. and that means we have to talk about this. and there are solutions. i've put forward my own solutions on it and i would like to see other leaders come forward with theirs. if they don't like my ideas, give us yours and let's have

that discussion so that we can protect your mom and dad and we can protect my grandchildren. >> as long as the debate continues, just figure it out for us, sir. >> we'll work hard at it. >> reid ribble of wisconsin. thank you, sir, i appreciate your time. i want to bring in our agenda panel. dafna linzer, ryan grim and corey dade. gang, thanks for being here. ryan, let me start with you. do you know what's bad and should people know what's bad when sarah palin comes out and support -- shows up in washington, d.c. with ted cruz? is it a sign that tea partiers are sticking together? >> it is. it's kind of a retreat. the tea party is down to about i'd say roughly 20% of the population still has -- you know, still considers themself a part of this movement. but, you know, it's not as if the people in the other 80% look with any sympathy on that 20%. if it were like these are the diehards, these are the activists, but everybody kind of thanks them for the work that

they're doing for the country, that would be one thing. but they are in it, increasingly isolated and anilistic bunch. some of them are getting to an attitude of a spurned lover looking at this country. if i can't have her then nobody can. they kind of see themselves losing the country and, you know, this is the reaction to it. it's complete and total anarchy and chaos. >> corey, "the daily beast" has an article that says the fight over the debt seal and the shutdown are an impeachment on the cheap. it was a great read. is this the goal to keep president obama's government from actually working? their goal was to make him a one-term president and that did not work. >> now they're playing for keeps pause they're trying to set the stage to energize the base for the 2016 presidential election. and what they're doing by not

actually passing any meaningful legislation beyond this point is they're endangering their own party nationally. immigration, the restoration of section 4 of the voting rights act, all these things that the public, that polls show the public are behind. you know, if they're not taking sort of active steps to pass these issues, to actually work with obama on anything, they're risking their brand. and they have as much success at succeeding at this as the dallas cowboys had of losing to the redskins yesterday. shameless plug. >> the short game, watching some of the boomerang of this could come and the results could show up in 2014 for the republicans. today on "morning joe" debbie wasserman schultz said women on the hill could help foster and lead the way through the woods. take a listen. >> if we put all the women, republican and democrat in the

house together, the consensus from all of us is that we would get this done in a few hours. i would argue that even if sarah palin were in the room, that we could find a way to get together. >> that's like a triple dog dare, dafna. even if sarah palin were in the room we could figure out a way to get this done. msnbc.com also takes a look at how women are shaping up the talk. so explain, are republican women worried about what's going on? we know that susan collins was over the weekend trying to spearhead her own effort. >> sarah palin is not in the room and neither is michele bachmann. these two tea party women are just not part of this effort, though, as you said that's being spearheaded by republican women who have had a very successful year in working very closely with their democratic counterparts on everything from military sexual assault to other kinds of benefits for women across the country. and i think that republican women, especially, are seeing the effects of the shutdown on their party. the fact that women are watching the effects of the shutdown very

closely and i think they really want to try and move their party in a different direction and away from where the tea party is taking it at this moment. >> so it would be a nice fantasy to think that more of our female leaders could help get everybody out of this mess. however, the weight, ryan, seems to be falling on reid and mitch mcconnell. but the personal dysfunction of their relationship, is that really a linchpin? they know that the country is resting on their professionalism. >> i think they'll be able to put that aside. you know, you have to think about how remarkable it is that we're in a place where we say, oh, the united states senate is taking a look at this. we're probably going to be okay. you know, that's how -- that's how dysfunctional we have gotten, that we actually look to the senate to save us. but every deal that has been struck in the last several years has gone through this exact same pattern. the house pretends like it's going to come to something, things blow up with the white house and then they rely on the

senate to bail them up and then they jam it through the house. >> corey, are democrats kind of pickling themselves a little too much in the joy of all of this because of the republicans getting so much blame and now they seem willing to take more advantage of it than finding a solution? >> yeah, thomas, they do have to be careful here. they don't want to overreach. as we know over the years, the republicans have been graded, you know, snatching victory in key ways but they overreach. in this case the democrats until now are playing it just right. you know, the moment that their base starts to shift, the moment that the public starts to shift toward them and start criticizing them, they will have to dial it back. the one thing they have on their side is branding. the democratic party is not the party that's associated with anti-government. so the idea that they're going to take the biggest hit off of the shutdown or the debt limit increase, they're not because they're not associated with that kind of tactic in general. but they do have to be careful. >> today's agenda panel, dafna

linzer, ryan grim, corey dade, thanks, gang. corey, thanks for your shoutout to your football team. get more on our website, tv.msnbc.com. just follow the link to my name. give s me rates for progressive direct and other car insurance companies? yes. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes. but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes! you want to run through it again? no, i'm good. you got it? yes. rates for us and them -- now that's progressive. call or click today. into an easy dinner with crescent dogs. just separate, add hot dogs, cheese, roll 'em up, and bake. lookin' hot, c-dog. pillsbury crescents. make dinner pop.

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the power of the pardon is the only absolute power afforded to the president of the united states. it's one that this president very rarely uses. president obama's record on pardons may surprise even political observers. here's ari melber with the latest edition of presumed guilty. >> when the justice system gets it wrong, the constitution grants the president a special power to make things right, but it's a power president obama rarely uses. >> i think this is going to surprise a lot of people, but this president is the most miserly pardoner of any modern president. >> the numbers back that up. barack obama has the lowest clemency rate in modern history. at the same point in his

presidency, bill clinton had pardoned one in every eight applicants. george w. bush, 1 in every 33. president obama, just one in every 50. why does the pardon power matter? the constitution empowers the president to decide when the interests of justice are served by overturning a conviction or shortening an unfair prison sentence. beyond individual mistakes in the courtroom, one of the most compelling reasons to use the pardon power is to release americans serving prison terms for activities that the law would punish differently today. a prime example, the shifting approach to the war on drugs. the justice department is no longer seeking harsh penalties for some nonviolent drug users, but it has yet to apply that same logic to inmates serving time right now for those same offenses. >> at the other end, the executive himself has discretion under the pardon power, and i think there's a correlating imperative to use it at both

ends. >> mark osler runs the law clinic at st. thomas university in minnesota. >> we have people serving time, over 5,000 people probably serving time under harsh crack laws that have now been undone by congress. >> among the 5,000 is clarence errand, in prison for two decades since the age of 23. a first-time offender, he was still given the maximum sentence for arranging a meeting between two drug dealers. three consecutive life terms in prison. obama has the power to release him right now. >> there's a lot of people now currently serving sentences. had they been sentenced today, they would already be out. >> dafna linzer, managing editor of msnbc.com, co-authored a series on the issue with "the washington post." >> it would take the president the stroke of a pen on ca commutations to right that disparity now. >> they invited the obama

administration to discuss the issue and they declined the interview request. for an administration that has battled congress over protecting many of the president's constitutional powers, the pardon power is rarely discussed or used, and it's not clear what would change that or whether thousands like clarence errand will have a shot at mercy or a life behind bars. >> ari melber, co-host of "the cycle" joins me on set. it's an amazing piece. clarence errand, it's hard to believe that he got three life sentences for a first-time offender. that's just amazing, it blows my mind. dafna, coining that phrase miserly pardoner. almost like scrooge mcduck when it comes to giving out any type of recognition. is that because of backlash? >> we don't know. as i mention there in the piece, the white house declined to participate in this project, which suggests sensitivity right there because they do grant other types of interviews. there isn't a lot of understanding about how this pardon power and these

commutations can actually make justice work. if people have served some of their time, under the constitution the president can do this. i don't think there has to be a backlash particularly for nonviolent offenders. >> do you think that that would make him a target, though, honestly for the critics that have been there from the very beginning, that this would just open up another style of achilles heel? >> possibly. another person we interviewed for this piece who's written books about this said that while the old politics worked that way, nowadays when you look at the reaction to eric holder's reforms, which were sweeping in saying let's be smart on crime and not keep people in prison for so long, there wasn't a lot of conservative attacks. in fact some people like rand paul, a tea party leader, praised eric holder and said we can work together on this. i think the politics of this are potentially shifting. i think regardless of the politics, this is a second-term president. we have a failed war on drugs. we have over 5,000 people, as we report here in the piece, that are stuck in jail for nonviolent drug abuses that are no longer

criminalized the same way today. >> do you think the president will ramp up his record toward the end? >> i think that's possible, but i think that's dangerous. dafna linzer, who has done a lot of reporting on this, talks about the fact that a rushed process at the end can lead to the mistakes lead to the very kind of mistakes that can upset pardon power. last point. president george w. bush told barack obama one thing when they were in the limousine on the way to inauguration. he said be careful with the pardon power. put a plan in place early. i fear they haven't done that. >> great to see you. catch him this afternoon. more in-depth analysis. the latest of presumed guilty. again, don't miss "the cycle" at 3:00. today's producer's pick comes from associate producer. dropped out of playing lead role of "50 shades of grey." university studio said "sons of

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>> mission control at 4% oxygen and dropping, please advise. >> mission control is not here right now but can i take a message. >> what do you mean they are not here? >> this is awkward but the government has shut down. it turns out i'm the only essential employee in the place. >> that was a spoof on snl. maybe that won't be the case any longer as we're getting breaking news that the president is going to meet this afternoon coming up at 3:00, the president and vice president this bipartisan by k m

camm cammca meeting. the debt ceiling looming thursday the 17th. we asked and you answered, the question being would we reach a debt deal sooner if women were in charge of the negotiations. barbara tweeted we would never be in this pissing contest if women were in charge. i don't think so. women can be as tough as men, sometimes tougher. steve, if women were in charge we wouldn't have a debt ceiling. again, the president and vice president will meet with minority leader mcconnell, boehner, pelosi and reed coming up this afternoon at 3:00. that's going to wrap up this hour for me. i'll see you tomorrow at 11:00 eastern, chris matthews and senator murphy join our conversation as the u.s. government gets closer to the fall. hopefully this afternoon we'll put out positive notes. "now" with alex wagner coming up next.

alex, you are very close by in washington, d.c. >> we are trying to emanate the strongest positive vibrations we can, thomas, so we do not go into economic catastrophe. i don't know how successful we will be. we are live, as you said, in the nation's capital for day 14 of the shutdown. can reed and mcconnell right a finale. can he reprice his role as hapless leader from fiscal cliff. robert gibbs, deedee myers and robert costa. plus, whose republican party is it anyway? we will discuss tensions, schisms and grand old identity crisis. obama health care rollout and sports. all that right after this. ♪

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it is monday october 14th and this is "now." day 14 of the government shutdown and three days until the nation reaches its borrowing limit. so far a deal has approved elusive. for now all eyes on the dynamic duo of senators harry reid and mitch mcconnell. on sunday reid proposed a long-term deal. the proposal came after diagrams rejected a republican plan drafted by senator susan collins which wooch locked in deep on sequester cuts in exchange for opening the government through march. reid's offer met with chilly response from same senate republicans who claim to want a deal. >> here is what i'm worried about, a deal coming out of the senate a majority of republicans can't vote for in the ho