there's no education in the second kick of a mule. the first kick of the mule was in 1995. the second one was the last 16 days. a government shutdown is off the table. we're not going to do it. but texas senator ted cruz, who spearheaded the shutdown strategy is singing a completely different tune. >> i would do anything, and i will continue to do anything i can, to stop the train wreck that is obama care. and i think our focus should not be on d.c. politics, it should be on the people who are getting hurt. >> does somebody at some point tell him to stop? >> the other tea party members will go back and be told you're doing a great job. >> ted cruz is not about how to move the republican party down the field, ted cruz is doing a fabulous job of moving ted cruz down the field. >> so he's not alone. former senator jim demint, still a conservative powerhouse of his own penning this op-ed in the "wall street journal" entitled we won't back down. president obama who sent an appaology letter to federal

employees today has his to do list. we're talking about a budget deal, movement on the farm bill and finally that long promised immigration reform deal. >> passing a budget, immigration reform, farm bill. those are three specific things that would make a huge difference in our economy right now. >> all right. so there we have it. the agenda laid out. joining me now, democratic congresswoman, joe ezoe lofgren california. senator ted cruz says he would not rule out the threat of shutting down the government once again in the future. do you think more moderate republican colleagues of yours in the house would ever let that happen again? >> well, i certainly hope not. the remaining moderates did not want this shutdown, but i didn't observe that they were able to stop it. so i really think it's up to the republican leadership in the house not to go down such a

reckless and disastrous course again. >> we heard the president there come out yesterday saying he wants congress to move on immigration reform and it looks like that really does rest on the house and you're on what used to be the house gang of eight to come up with a bill. three republicans have since dropped out so you're a group of five. where does the gang stand right now, especially with the president mentioning yesterday by name the bipartisan senate bill that exists. is the onus now on you? >> well, we've drafted a bill but as you know the republicans basically left the group for reasons that i understand, so i think here's where we are. i'm the senior democrat on the immigration subcommittee. we have a bill that we haven't introduced, although we could find other republicans to do it. the senate bill has been introduced in the house and it's really up to the republican leadership to decide how to move forward. they could take up the senate bill. we'd be happy if they took up the bill we drafted. they could do something else. but they, as we've seen in this

shutdown, it is the republicans in the house that control the agenda. we're not able under the rules to put a bill on the floor for a vote, although if we did, it would pass and we would have immigration reform. >> congresswoman, many republicans say after what's happened with the shutdown there's really no way that they want to take up immigration. here's what republican raul labrador, formerly in your gang of eight, had to say about it. take a look. >> i think what he has done over the last two and a half weeks, he's trying to destroy the republican party. and i think that anything that we do right now with this president will be with that same goal in mind, which is to destroy the republican party and not to get good policy. >> okay. so the republican party's own implosion and the fact that there is a civil war that exists is the president's fault in all of this? is this a deflection by republicans, trying to blame the president for the fact that he does want to move on immigration reform and it's not some type of

red herring that the president wants to see the republican party implode? he talked about it yesterday, the fact that washington is supposed to exist on disagreement, not on dysfunction. >> well, you know, the republicans held the economy hostage to get their way and lost. and i would hope that we wouldn't hold reform of the immigration system hostage because they're mad that they lost. we can work together on this. i know that. there are a lot of bruised feelings on the republican side of the aisle. maybe they need this weekend to cool down. but i know that we can work together. i know that there are republicans that want to have reform. the president is showing leadership, the democrats are ready to work through the issues. some of them are difficult, but i know we can succeed if we'll just put our minds together and say we can do this. i can we can do this. >> cooler heads always prevail. zoe lofgren, thanks for your time. >> thank you. immigration also the topic

of today's big question. does immigration reform have any hope on the hill? weigh in on twitter and facebook. the conversation is always going there. i want to bring in karen finney, host of the msnbc show "disrupt with karen finny. " karen, good morning. >> good morning. >> we get the cook political report saying the shutdown and the debt crisis has made 14 house seats shift toward the democrats. do you think the democrats now have a viable shot at taking back the house over the shutdown? >> i do. >> we heard from the congresswoman there. they control the agenda. >> i do, but here's the thing, having -- thomas, as you know, i was at the dnc during the '05-06 cycle. the key is not just the level of dissatisfaction with republicans. that's important. but to get people to really make that change, you've got to make an argument about why what your vision is better than what they're offering. so what i think the democrats have is a brilliant opportunity to say that they're dysfunctional. that republicans cannot lead.

they put ideology ahead of what's good for the country. i think if they combine this idea of, you know, a strong message as well as some of those numbers where things seem to be breaking in favor of democrats, even on some senate seats, then i think they have a real shot. >> let's look at this, though, because this got headlines. the headline of the houston chronicle pulling its endorsement of ted cruz. it's thought that he and other tea partiers forced the shutdown partly because they were not in danger of losing their seats. so the "houston chronicle" takes back the endorsement. no take-backs, the damage is done on that one. but could this change? when we think about this and the timing. as you point out when wuyou wer with the dnc, is there too much time between now and 2014 and the fact that we're so short-sighted about things, that there are going to be bigger distractions and everybody will forget what we went through? >> when we talked about a culture of corruption, that

messaging took six months. so even though, yes, on the one hand we have a long way to go, heaven knows like all kinds of things can happen, certainly, to get us on a different message and this could be a memory of the past. again, i think what the democrats have the opportunity to do, is to keep trying to push forward and keep using the opportunities. i think there will be plenty, given what we've been hearing from the republicans, to illustrate they're putting ideology ahead of the country. if they hit that drum beat over and over and over again, that's part of how you build a message. you were just talking about immigration reform. there's data that suggests that that's actually a good thing for some of these republican house members. it would be good for their races. and yet they're, as you showed, blaming the president? what? >> it seems a little odd, but, you know, perception trying to be reality in all of this, trying anyway. senator minority leader mitch

mcconnell said another government shutdown is off the table. he criticized ted cruz saying it wasn't a smart play, it had no chance of success. do you think, though, that these two can play nice together in the months ahead, especially given the fact that, you know, senator ted cruz has raised his national profile? >> right. >> and in washington, d.c., people have to respect that he can create a ripple effect? >> i think it will be very hard to see those two men come together for a couple of reasons. not just because ted cruz has now kind of established himself with a sort of base within the party of the tea partiers both within some of the house numbers, but some of the sarah palin tea party caucus outside politics, but also remember he's very adept at raising money. i think his quarter results or he's raised over a million dollars. so he's able to raise money. he's got heritage clearly on his side. so he has money and he's got

people behind him that i think is going to make him a force that he certainly can cause trouble going forward. >> karen finney. always great to have you on, thank you. you can watch karen finney every saturday and sunday, 4:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. you like k. fin, don't you? >> from you, thomas, i love it. >> karen, i love you. so a glitch here, a glitch there, a glitch everywhere. reports of more trouble with the health care exchange website. coming up i'll speak to ezra klein who has called the rollout a disaster. also ahead, a massive manhunt for two convicted killers who managed to walk right out of prison. how forged papers helped give them their freedom and slip justice.

stick with innovation. stick with power. stick with technology. get the flexcare platinum. new from philips sonicare. so if ydead battery,t tire, need a tow or lock your keys in the car, geico's emergency roadside assistance is there 24/7. oh dear, i got a flat tire. hmmm. uh... yeah, can you find a take where it's a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah? yeah i got it right here. someone help me!!! i have a flat tire!!! well it's good... good for me. what do you think? geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

i think it's important to remember that the website is not alone the affordable care act and as i've done some in recent days, it's important to remind folks that even as there have been some challenges in enrolling through the website, those challenges are being addressed and progress is being made and people are enrolling across the country. >> there you have it. white house press secretary jay carney yesterday facing repeated questions about when problems with the affordable care act's healthcare.gov's website will be fixed. abe days after the launch there are new reports of all the issues. the wall street journal reports the health care marketplace is generating flawed data for insurance companies. everything from duplicate enrollments and missing data fields to problems with eligibility and spouses reported as children. and usa today reports the site was built on 10-year-old technology that may require constant fixes and updates over the course of the next six months and eventually overhaul the entire system.

joining me now, "washington post" and bloomberg review journalist ezra klein. ezra, you haven't held back on this at all. you've been extensively covering this and briefing everybody for a long time. as you have the data now of the rollout, you call it a disaster. so based on that, where are the earliest signs of how and where it can improve. >> i'm not sure we have them yet. let me say what's improving and what i'm worried about. the thing i'm worried about is never the traffic load. that's getting better. if you go to healthcare.gov today you have a much better shot of getting deep into the process or all the way through it than you did a week ago or two weeks ago. but that's an issue simply of adding servers. that is a mechanical issue so much as anything in a site's architecture is. what i've been worried about and what the obama administration told me is not going to be a problem and is clearly becoming a problem is that the back end is a mess as well.

people have been talking a lot about what happens when you as a users go to the front of the website. but on the back of the website, a bunch of very complicated things are happening, right? so the website is communicating with different parts of the federal government, the irs, the social security administration. it's getting all this data about you so it can say what is your subsidy, how much will you ultimately be paying for health care insurance. it isn't clear if all of that data is coming through correctly. also more worryingly, if anything, that the data then to the insurer, you go and buy a plan from aetna or cigna or blue cross or whatever, that website needs to show what you bought in this plan. we're hearing widespread reports of that data coming in wrong, garbled, glitchy. if that keeps happening, that's the most dangerous of all the glitches. it's one thing if you can't get in. but if you sign up for something and then you actually don't have it when you get sick or you

don't have the right thing when you get sick, that is a huge betrayal of faith. >> so those are two very separate and distinct issues here. one, as you say, not being able to log on or get in to start that process. but if you've completed that process to then find out some type of incorrect or switcharoo. that's a big problem. this morning we had eugene robinson on "morning joe" talking about what might be the best option for the website. take a listen. >> if it's 10-year-old technology, why isn't another team, like a team of overcaffeinated 20-year-olds, building a new website based on current technology? >> so how long, ezra, do you think that the patience of people around the country, the millions of people that need to sign up, is -- how soon do you think it's going to wear thin to the point where the president, who has said all along that there are going to be glitches,

there are goinging to hbe hiccups, how long do you think people can give patience to this? >> i don't know exactly. you get this question of how long do you need to get the number of people into the federal exchanges that you need for an appropriate risk pool. on the -- on eugene's comment, and i've heard this a lot, i actually don't think you can overstate ha complicated what they're doing here is. how complicated this website is. it's not like building a static website. it's not like building the kinds of things that we think about as a website. it's a back-end architecture. that's where all of the real problem is, the kind of thing that worries me. now, it might not be this bad. we don't know the scope of these back end problems and the error rate. the white house is not giving us very good information, to be perfectly honest about it. so it might not be that bad, it might be very bad, it might resolve itself, it might not. what i'm hearing from people in the industry, health care policy experts, people that support obama care, people that don't, they get this fixed in two, three, four weeks, nobody will remember this in five years.

two or three months from now, people can't actually log in, then you have a problem where it's not clear the first year can actually work effectively. so they need to get this fixed quickly and they don't have time to build a whole new website. they need to get this fixed. >> the republican house committee has schedule a hearing for next thursday and may subpoena kathleen sebelius, so we'll find out next week potentially more on this. ezra klein, great to have you on, buddy, thanks. >> thank you. moving ahead after the shutdown. why the pressure on the president from within his own party could be stronger than ever. and then listen to this, arnold for president? what started the rumor mill that he could be eyeing a run for 2016? ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness if you qualify, and new car replacement standard with our auto policies. so call liberty mutual today.

and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? why would i take one pepcid® when i could take tums® throughout the day when my heartburn comes back? 'cause you only have to take one... [ male announcer ] don't be like the burns. just one pepcid® complete works fast and lasts. rely on unitedhealthcare for their medicare coverage. if you're looking at your options, see why aarp medicare plans from unitedhealthcare could be right for you. as you know, medicare doesn't cover everything. that's why it's important to consider your choices. aarp medicare plans offer a range of options, including plans that help lower your prescription costs or let you enjoy extra wellness benefits. and all these unitedhealthcare plans are backed by a commitment to quality and service. call or go online today to find out more.

with over 30 years of medicare experience, unitedhealthcare can connect you with the right coverage to help you enjoy a healthier life. millions of people have chosen aarp medicare plans from unitedhealthcare. so join them and see what these plans can do for you. call unitedhealthcare today or go online to learn more.

so more now on that bullying case in florida that led to the suicide of a 12-year-old girl. mark o'mara, the lawyer who represented george zimmerman, is proposing a law that would hold parents criminally liable for cyberbullying. this week police arrested two girls, ages 12 and 14, and charged them with felony aggravated stalking in connection with the suicide of 12-year-old rebecca sedwick. she killed herself by jumping from the top of an abandoned concrete plant tower. the sheriff who made the arrest said he believes their parents are partly responsible. >> at this point in the investigation, we don't have a criminal case against any parents. we wish that we did. >> so they wish that they did. joining me now is attorney faith jenkins. faith, great to have you here. this is such a sad case all around, especially since we're talking about youth bullying, it continues. again, with suicide going on here. the two girls who were charged this week, they're 12 and 14. nbc is not releasing their names because of the sensitivity around their ages there.

but the sheriff's office was holding up those images as we saw, they were blurred out. but when you're dealing with kids so young, who probably can't fully comprehend and understand their actions, is the onus on the parents? should we have tougher and stricter criminal laws on the state level that go after them? >> i haven't agreed with much that mark o'mara has said this past year, but actually on this issue i think he's right. the parents are the first line of defense here. at some point it's not about the village, it's not about the school, it's not about the tv. you as a parent have to be responsible for what your child is doing. and now, thomas, bully, the reason why this problem is becoming such an issue now, it used to be kids could go to school, they were bullied, and in this case the child's mother removed her from that school and put her in another school and the problem would be resolved because they're taken away from those kids. but in this age with the internet and social media, it's 24/7. that's why this young lady was harassed and stalked. i don't even call this behavior

bullying anymore. it is absolutely criminal. it was stalking and it followed her even when she went to another school. >> unfortunately because we are so tech addictive now in our homes with our computers, with the phones that are in our pockets, you know, we can allow this to get to us so easily. but according to the police rebecca had been targeted about ten months for the two girls who told her she was ugly and recommended that she should kill herself. these felony charges against them, felony charges against these young girls, they seem unprecedented. so how did they move forward legally? and is that going to be kind of a, and i don't mean this flippantly, but is it going to be easy for a judge or attorneys to plea this down to much lesser charges? >> florida is one of the states they do not have criminal anti-bullying laws, unlike new jersey, for example. and so it's harder to prosecute these cases because you have to look at the criminal code and here they looked at stalking, they looked at harassment and said we could move forward. those are both course of conduct cases. so they're going to look at the

course of conduct that's taken place. the good thing about social media is there is a record so they can look at the record that's basically now set in social media. all the messages that these two girls sent to this 12-year-old and go forward there. now, where the parents come in, if you know as a parent, the parents were aware. there had been a parent-teacher conference. the schools had become involved. the parents were aware that these things were going on. and you turn a blind eye and still allow your child to have access to facebook and all these other social media sites and still allow them to use it unmonitored with unfetterred access, then yes, you then become responsible because you are giving your child the tools to move forward and continue to harass meez kids. >> real quickly, the lawyer for one of the girls says the girl is saddened by all of this. the parents also claim their child's facebook was hacked and that's where these messages have appeared because of a hacking but we'll wait to see more of the evidence that comes forward. faith jenkins, appreciate it.

fbi agents and new york city police have made a new terror-related arrest on long island today. the suspect is identified as marcos alonzo zea. he is accused of trying to travel to yemen and do violent jihad. two killers were released from a florida prison by using forged court documents. state and local authorities are searching for joseph jenkins and charles walker who are on the run. an investigation into how they were released is currently under way. six people are dead and an ohio police officer injured after a squad car responding to a robbery slammed into a passenger vehicle. this crashed happened early this morning about 80 miles northwest of the columbus, ohio. none of those who died, including a 2-year-old child, were wearing seat belts. bay area rapid transit workers walked off the job after negotiations over money, health care negotiations fell apart. this is expected to affect 400,000 commuters in the san francisco bay area. yo u really love, what would you do?" ♪

[ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪ when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪ life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisinfo.com to get your complimentary q&a book, with information from experts on your condition.

we've learned how to stretch our party budget. ♪ the only downer? my bargain brand towel made a mess of things. so goodbye so-called bargain brands, hello bounty basic. the affordably priced towel that's an actual bargain. watch how one select-a-size sheet of bounty basic is 50% stronger than a full sheet of the bargain brand. it takes a strong towel to stretch a budget. bounty basic. the strong but affordable picker upper. and try charmin basic.

and miss universe 2012 is usa! miss universe! >> wasn't that a dramatic moment last year? that's where miss usa was crowned. for the past six years the miss universe competition has been held amidst the glitz and the glamour of the las vegas strip. this year the international competition originates in moscow and that has caused some outcry. in june vladimir putin signed what he called an anti-gay propaganda law which imposes heavy fines on people forcing information on nontraditional sexual relations on minors. i have agreed and accepted the assignment to co-host the miss

universe competition next month in russia. i've taken some heat for that decision. i outline my rationale in a new column on msnbc.com. joining me right now to talk all about this on the phone is donald trump, whose organization is one-half of the miss universe venture, the other half being nbc universal, the parent company of msnbc. donald, thanks for joining us. >> absolutely, thomas. my honor. >> all right. so first before we talk about russia and the new anti-gay laws, how do you react to people who would say that miss universe is potentially outdated or sexist or masogenistic. >> i would hear constant constantly, it's outdated. it's become one of the hot shows. the miss universe pageant will have one of the largest worldwide audiences of any show and it's a very, very powerful thing from television, from every standpoint. first of all, we're really

honored to have you being a host. you're going to do a fantastic job but this is the first time i've heard this question in about five years. we've made it so hot that the question just isn't asked. we've had a lot of controversy. we have had the problems with drug abuse with some of them and they came back in a couple of cases and really came back and have become successful and we've had a couple of controversies over the years and i'm sure controversy isn't the worst thing. but the miss universe pageant and miss usa pageant have done so well that you don't hear the word "outdated" anymore. it's sort of just the opposite. >> i know that in doing my research on this, i know that it's about building confidence for these women who spend most of their year traveling around doing great work. i know olivia has spent her time educating people on hiv and aids. but do you have concerns about the russian laws having a negative impact on the contest this year? >> well, i don't like it. i don't like what that is all about and, as you know, and i

think you probably feel very similar to me, we can go over there and maybe make a difference. you know, you can avoid it and that's one way of handling it or you can go over and perhaps make a difference. we have many people in the packa pageant and pageant system who happen to be gay and many of them you see how great they are and they are enthused about this because they think we can make a big difference as a group and individually. and i know you sort of feel the same thing, thomas. >> i feel exactly the same way. visibility is very key on this. so i want to ask you, in offering me this assignment, i'm an openly gay and married man, you are professionally flying in the face of these laws and you are agreeing that lbgt people are integrated and equal members of society. so does that change any of your prior public stances on marriage equality here in the u.s.? >> no, it doesn't change. i just think it's -- you are a wonderful guy. nbc felt very strongly, they came to me an explained it to me

and i agreed immediately, as you probably heard. it wasn't -- you know i did not put up a fight, in fact i was very honored. i think you're going to do fantastically and i love the fact that you feel the same about the whole situation as me. because it has been controversial. going to moscow is a great thing. going in the face of some of their rules, regulations or laws is something that, frankly, we can avoid it and hide, which i don't think is good, and i can tell you the gay groups over in moscow are loving the fact that we're going over there. so we can hide or we can do something about it. and i think you're going to do something about it and i think i'm going to do something about it. >> do you have plans to meet with vladimir putin or any other top russian officials to talk about your concerns about what these laws mean for the country and internationally? >> many of the officials are meeting and many of the officials are coming to the big contest, and it's going to be on november 9th. it's a very, very big deal in

moscow and it's just prior to the olympics, so it's a whole big thing leading into the olympics. this is a major deal. you can't get a ticket for anything in moscow. it's totally sold out. it's really an amazing thing. we have invited vladimir putin and i know for a fact that he wants very much to come, but we'll have to see. we haven't heard yet, but we have invited him. >> okay, we will wait and see. i am very glad to align myself with this an i think visibility is important so i appreciate you all agreeing that i can handle this assignment. >> you will do great and you and i will be working hard. you'll be working on the stage but we'll also be working behind the scenes. good luck, i'll see you there. >> thanks so much. all right. so now we're moving on, now that we've gotten a reprieve from our fiscal crisis, the pressure is on to pass president obama's agenda. and the drone debate, could president obama's pick for department of homeland security chief alienate some on the left? joan walsh is editor at large

for salon.com. viviana hurtado and james peterson. james, i want to start with you because we're in this post-shutdown mode. the president has a lot on his plate addressing directly the obama care rollout, immigration has been put out there as the president addressed that yesterday, and the next budget deal. after what's happened with the house republicans having such a difficult time surrendering and now triaging some of their political wounds, how do you think that those big items, those big ticket items are going to play out in washington? what is the appetite? >> well, i think it's going to be tough. you know, the appetite from the american people's perspective is great to get things done and functionality of government is going to be very, very appealing to the american people. i'm not sure if those in washington understand that. i think from the president's perspective, i think the rule of the day is multi tasking.

you have to do multiple things. yo obau have care, fix the website, push the agenda on immigration and some of the other things and then you have to remember this republican caucus will need some time to heal. when it comes to immigration, it's not just tea party versus conservatives here, thomas, it's actually -- there's an ideological rift here because some republicans say, hey, we can't let 11 million more democrats start voting and some republicans say, hey, we can't exist in the future without being open to immigration so there's a lot of complexities on both sides. >> viviana, there's a new ad by republicans for immigration reform, a super pac, they put this ad two days ago out pushing for comprehensive reform. i just want to play a small part of it. take a look. >> instead of the do-nothings that currently take up space in washington, we could yoz a few more people who work hard and fix our problems. >> we heard raul labrador at the top of the show talking about the fact that he doesn't feel

that there is anything that can happen on this because the president is out to destroy the republican party. the president is in charge of how they are all failing in terms of governing right now. so can't they save face by looking at what the senate has already done on immigration reform and get to work in the house? >> you would think, thomas, that they would have learned their lesson after the shutdown crisis and getting so close to the fiscal edge and averting that by really a hair. in fact what we're seeing right now is that, i believe, the extreme wing of the gop is doubling down on their party of no message. so the fact of the matter is if there is a way to fix the immigration and, for example, it's very heavy on border security, but there could be more done perhaps with really putting in e-verify and so forth, you're not hearing those ideas in the same way you hear those ideas with obama care to improve it. what you're just hearing is a very negative no message. that is something that i think is very, very damning for the

party going forward, not just in 2014 but really for the big year, 2016. >> it's really interesting, joan, as we look at the president and what he laid out in terms of the farm bill, immigration reform, the grand bargain, those are things he'd like to concentrate on. we know that the president did nominate, will nominate jay johnson to be the secretary of homeland security. now, if we look at the resume of johnson, a former top pentagon lawyer, heavily involved in the legal issues of drone strikes, the targeted killing of terrorist suspects overseas. is this going to bring up some uncomfortable feelings, especially from the president and also from the right? they hate to make the democrats look like the daddy party. they hate to make them look like they are the hawks. >> but they are at this point. they are. i mean it's a tough one. look, i have a lot of respect for jay johnson. he might be as good as we're going to get. what i like about him, he was a skeptic about going into libya without any congressional approval. he's somebody who actually knows how and is willing to buck the president, is willing to buck the administration on drones.

he's pro-drone, which i have issues with. on the other hand, he's more transparency, more process and moving it away from the cia to the defense department. and so -- but i think it is -- it may not be what the president wants, but i think that this nomination is going to be a forum for some people -- for some of us to get more answers about this policy. >> okay. so while we look for more answers on that, i just want to take your bets. james, i'm going to start with you. the three things the president talked about yesterday, farm bill, immigration reform and potentially a grand bargain. which one of those do you think has the best legs? >> okay, so there's no such thing as a grand bargain. the terms upon which they're talking about, there's no such thing as a grand bargain, i'll say that. the farm bill has the host likelihood of passing in a way that will satisfy both sides. and immigration is much more about border security than it is about comprehensive immigration reform. >> viviana, for you which has the best legs? >> i think some kind of budget

resolution because you have public opinion. that is what the president had on his side with this last debate. he doesn't have that with immigration. there's still a lot of people, the center that's not convinced with immigration reform. we need some kind of movement with entitlement reform, tax reform and some kind of budget resolution. it touches absolutely every single element of american society. >> joan, what about you? >> there won't be a grand bargain. anything that gives up earned benefits is a nonstarter with the progressive wing. i think there's still a chance for immigration reform if republicans would realize they don't have to concede. have policies that reach latinos, don't concede that they're democrats. there's going to be some republicans that become citizens. why are they so afraid of that? why are they writing them off? it's ridiculous. >> so we've got two for immigration reform -- wait, hold on, let me get my calculations in the form. how about none for farm bill. joan walsh, viviana hurtado,

james peterson, have a wonderful weekend. you can find more on our panel on our website, tv.msnbc.com. just follow the link to my name. [ male announcer ] when you have sinus pressure and pain,

you feel...congested. beat down. crushed. but sudafed gives you maximum strength sinus pressure and pain relief.

so you feel free. powerful sinus relief. sudafed. open up. reading fiction may help social relationships. a recent study had people read different types of writing, then guess the emotions of people they don't know. people who read fiction were more likely to correctly guess the emotions than readers of nonfiction and other genres. nearly 50 years after the assassination of president john f. kennedy, questions still remain about whether his accused shooter, lee harvey oswald, acted alone or if he was part of a greater, grander conspiracy. now using modern technology to examine old evidence, university of virginia professor has uncovered new details from that fateful november day in dallas.

reveals them in his new book and joins he live from charlottesville, virginia. larry, it's great to have you here. a lot of us think about kennedy half dollar, kennedy the last half century. interesting details, as everybody still wonders about what happened on that day. hundreds of books have been published about the assassination of the president, several documentaries, feature films have been made about this. but tell us about what your book breaks new ground on now in this 50-year-old mystery. >> sure, thomas. thanks for the attention to the book. look, there are too many theories about the kennedy assassination and not enough facts. we have provided a big fact in this never-ending controversy about what happened on november 22nd, 1963. thomas, there have been two formal investigations of the kennedy assassination. the first, of course, was the warren commission, deeply flawed study. i detail about 30 ways in which it was completely inadequate.

and the fact that they did such a sloppy rush job has condemned us to 50 years of cynical questioning about what happened on that terrible day. the second investigation was by the house select committee on assassinations in the 1970s. a three-year study that concluded in the end that president kennedy was probably killed as the result of a conspiracy. how did they reach that conclusion? they looked at a police recording on a so-called dictabelt at police headquarters. allegedly it was taken by a policeman who had his microphone stuck on his motorcycle as he was traveling right behind president kennedy's limousine. what we have done in this book through the most sophisticated audio analysis ever undertaken, we hired the best people in the world for this, it turns out there's no gunfire at all on the dictabelt and in fact the

policeman with the stuck microphone was two and a half miles away at the trade mart, the location where president kennedy was going to deliver his luncheon address. >> all right. so you were able to interview key witnesses that government investigators apparently missed. so what type of new information did they offer, especially when we think five decades, you know, nearly five decades has gone by. a lot of people's memories fade and details get less sharp. >> yes, but listen, that was a flash bulb moment, thomas. no one in the country can forget where they were when they heard the news. imagine how it is for the people who were right there in daly plaza as president kennedy was murdered. they remember every detail. here's the problem, though. they all saw different things, they all heard different things. because the warren commission failed to go down all the trails in 1963-64, i believe we'll never know the full truth.

obviously lee harvey oswald was killed by jack ruby just a couple of days later. that's another reason why we'll never know the full truth. the only firm prediction i can give you other than my personal belief that lee harvey oswald was the one that fired the bullets from the sixth floor of the school book depository, not sayings there wasn't anybody else behind the picket fence, i will tell you my prediction is 100 years from now whatever succeeds your program we'll be having on experts like me to propose new theories about the assassination. it's never going to be over. >> we will be talking about it and hopefully our grandchildren will be using your book as a reference point to talk about it. larry, thanks so much. we're back right after this. ith 0-calorie monk fruit in the raw. it's made with the natural, vine-ripened sweetness of fruit, so you can serve up deliciously sweet treats without all the sugar. raw natural sweetness, raw natural success.

a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one.

that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪

today we're going to tell you about the soup ladies.

a group of women from washington state who instead of running away from disaster, they go straight towards it. their goal, to help the people who are there to serve. ginger mama pastor eli is one of the founders of the soup ladies. mama pastor elli. and i can call you that? >> everybody does. >> your mission is to help the first responders. you go into the area and serve hot meals to people who provide emergency relief. explain to us how that got started in the group. >> i went to mississippi after hurricane katrina. the first few days we were feeding first responders and there was no one taking care of them. when i went back home, i talked to my fire chiefs and said is this true? you guys are stuck out there? they said yes. so i just found a way that we could work with emergency services and do it the right

way. so we've had a lot of training. we don't just show up. we're invited. you never go uninvited. >> right. >> command training for fema. we've been rental stirred with the state as emergency workers. so when there's a long investigation we go to locally here in washington we go to homicides, s.w.a.t. teams when they are stuck for a long time so that we can -- and we bring food to them, food, drinks, whatever they need. then we leave, because they are just stuck out there, so we take care of them. >> in shawnee you served 13,000 meals in five days. you can to new york after sandy, joplin, the twister that hit there. what is the most popular soup those on the ground prefer?

>> well, i've actually had marriage proposals over prime rib and horseradish soup they love that. >> that sounds worthy of a diamond ring and marriage proposal. >> yes, it is. >> we wish you nothing but the best. thank you for the work you do, the work you're doing with the soup ladies and for all the people that you're providing these great meals for and just the inspiration you're providing to all of us. ginger mama passer elli, thank you. >> thank you. >> if you know someone with the go and do spirit, tweet us using the hashtag of go and do. >> that will wrap up for me. i'll see you back next week at 11:00. alex wagner is up next. is that how you scored your engagement ring? >> no comment again, thomas. we have a great show, the latest cliff hanging ended but ties that divide are never truly broken on capitol hill. we'll discuss lessons learned

and governing by crisis with gene robinson, josh green and others. plus we'll examine roadblocks for comprehensive immigration reform. maria teresa kumar. and we'll discuss with nbc's richard engel and "new york times" mark masseti u.n. report on drones and america's security state all that when "now" starts right after this. avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive" sales event is back. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on any new 2014 volkswagen. hurry, this offer ends october 31st. for details, visit vwdealer.com today. have hail damage to both their cars. ted ted is trying to get a hold of his insurance agent. maxwell is not. he's on geico.com setting up an appointment

with an adjuster. ted is now on hold with his insurance company. maxwell is not and just confirmed a 5:30 time for tuesday. ted, is still waiting. yes! maxwell is out and about... with ted's now ex-girlfriend. wheeeee! whoo! later ted! online claims appointments. just a click away on geico.com. it guides you to a number that will change

it guides you to a number your life: your sleep number setting. it even knows you by name. now it's easier than ever to experience deep, restful sleep with the sleep number bed's dualair technology. at the touch of a button, the sleep number bed adjusts to each person's ideal comfort and support. and you'll only find it at a sleep number store. where right now our newest innovations are available with 36-month financing. sleep number. comfort individualized. we rented this resort, hid smelly objects all over each villa and plugged in febreze. then real people were asked to stay for a long weekend.

would they smell anything? the room itself was like [sniffs] ahhh. feels like someone has pumped fresh oxygen into the room. [ male announcer ] on the last day we revealed everything. [ both ] oouugghhh. we were sitting right on it. febreze is stunningly effective. [ laughing ] [ male announcer ] pluggable febreze eliminates odors and keeps your home continuously fresh for up to 30 days, so you can breathe happy. what to do when your party is backed into a corner. knock down the walls. friday october 18th and this is "now." i got overrun. according to "politico" that was the excuse given by house speaker john boehner when confronted by the president of the united states about why he shut down the federal government in an ultimately fruitless

attempt to shut down the affordable care act. having cost the american economy $24 billion and lost the confidence of a nation, republicans just may have learned their lesson. speaking to the national view senate minority leader mitch mcconnell warned fellow republicans about the next budget fight. one of my favorite things is an old kentucky saying, there's no education in the second kick of the mule. the first kick of the mule was in 1995. the second one was the last 16 days. a long mule kick. a government shutdown is off the table, we're not going to do it. mcconnell's former counterpart harry reid was cautiously optimistic about whether the grand old party was broken. i don't know said harry reid, i don't like the word broken. remember, we're not dealing with rational folks. i do believe they have been hurt