the way business is done in washington has to change. we nead to focus on what the majority of americans sent us here 20 do. i'll look for willing partners from either party to get important work done. >> ready to take action. good saturday afternoon, i'm craig melvin. you are watching msnbc. president obama laying out precisely what he wants to do next but republicans are refocusing their attacks on obama care. >> the law that carries the president's name is the hallmark of a reckless federal government that has lost its way. and live on the trail, hillary clinton will appear

there within the hour. she's in virginia helping an old friend or perhaps starting her journey to the white house. is texas senator ted cruz far behind? >> there are two levels of filters that should prevent this from happening again. >> also ahead, a florida judge speaks out about the killers who allegedly forged his name to escape prison. what he says about missed warning signs as the all-out manhunt stretches into the weekend. plus, gone and forgotten, the tangled lines of responsibility leaving some in colorado living in virtual ghosttowns that look like the wild west. and also this afternoon, blocking cyberbullies. right now, a group of computer hackers is building tools that can detect harassment as it happens. it's today's "big idea." a whole lot to get to. we start on the campaign train

where hillary clinton is about to take the stage. she's campaigning for terry mcauliffe. it's her first political event since she left the state department last year. casey hunt is in falls church, virginia for us on a saturday afternoon. here's the thing. normally campaign events, you know this, speakers are invited to introduce the candidate. here i understand we're actually expecting terry mcauliffe to introduce hillary clinton. who's really on display here? >> reporter: i think the answer to that question is pretty obvious, craig. hillary clinton is clearly the draw for this event. it's her name that's behind me on this state theater here in falls church. this is going to be our first chance to really see what hillary's campaign chops are like since her 2008 campaign ended. she was knocked a little bit during that campaign for not being quite as good on the stump as say now president barack obama. it will be interesting to see if she's gotten better or her approach is any different. it will be interesting to see

how the people respond to her. this is a women for terry event. if terry mcauliffe is going to win this race in virginia it's probably going to be because women voted for him over ken cucchinelli. her approval rating is 60%. the challenge will be getting the women voters to the polls. having hillary come in at this moment for him is potentially key. >> why now? why is clinton choosing now to head out on the campaign trail? and is this something we can expect to see her do more of? start to see her at more political events? >> reporter: you know, i talked to several people who are close to the clintons and they all say the same reason the reason why she's here for terry is just because it's terry. and they're old friends. he's been with the clintons for years, ever since bill was

president. he was the co-chair of clinton's 1996 re-election and of hillary clinton's 2008 campaign he was the co-chair. this is when he needs them to come in for him. of course it doesn't hurt that he's winning. she hasn't campaigned for some other democrats who have been running in recent elections. she been come out for corey booker who won that senate seat in new jersey and she hasn't campaigned for barbara buono. she is a woman candidate, that's something republicans have highlighted. she has a fund-raiser for bill de blasio. >> casey hunt in falls church, virginia. casey, thank you. again, folks, stay with us for live coverage of clinton's speech. that is coming up within the hour. we hear that hillary clinton is going to be taking the stage about 2:30. we'll bring it to you live here. now that the government is once again open for business, president obama laid out his

legislative agenda this morning. >> there are three places where i believe that democrats and republicans can work together right away. first we should sit down and pursue a balanced approach to a responsible budget. second, we should finish the job of fixing our broken immigration system. there's also a broad coalition across america that's behind this effort. third we should pass a farm bill, one that america's farmers and ranchers can depend on, one that protect s vulnerable children and adults in time of need. >> lynn swede is the washington bureau chief for the chicago sun times. when we last left off, the senate passed this immigration reform bill. it does a number of things, among them, creating a path to citizenship. it doubles the size of the border patrol, increases surveillance of the u.s. border with mexico, nearly doubles the number of visas available for high skilled workers and it makes e-verify, the employment

verification system mandatory for all employers. is this the bill that can go forward now, lynn? is this a bill that can get out of house? >> not in the form it's in right now. one of the things i think the house may do is break it up into pieces. they have got to put their own signature on it for political reasons. i think you'll see different coe legs being billed upon different elements of the bill. for dream act provisions illegally in the country through no fault of their own. that's the starting point now. the democrats did draft a bill. i think in this new climate post this shutdown but pre the next potential shutdown there will be people from both sides of the aisle looking to form coalitions they can brag good. >> you wrote in st"usa today" tt

there is virtually no interest among gop lawmakers to vote for the kind of sweeping bill that democrats are seeking. the congressman from idaho emphasized there's very little interest at all with working with the president on immigration. take a listen. >> i think what he has done over the last 2 1/2 weeks, he's trying to destroy the republican party and i think that anything that we do right now with this president on immigration will be with the same goal in mind, which is to destroy the republican party and not get good policy. >> so how is the process going to go forward in the house? >> well, it's going to be difficult. what you heard from representative labrador, represents a big chunk of that conservative wing of the house. they're the ones that drove the direction throughout the shutdown process. a lot of the them oppose the senate immigration bill. so as lynn was saying, they're

taking it piece by piece, advancing bills on border security, e-verify, things that are appealing to republicans. they're looking at a bill that would allow state and local police officers to enforce immigration laws, like we saw in arizona a couple years ago. when it comes to discussions about a pathway to citizenship, even for young undocumented immigrants, they haven't so much as filed a bill on that yet. we're very far away frommette gooding to a point where they can start matching up theple immigration bill in the senate and what they're doing in the house. >> a joint senate house budget committee has until mid-december to prepare 2014 budget. there was some talk that perhaps there might be something akin to a grand bargain or smaller grand bargain or any kind of bargain. what's going to happen with this joint budget committee, lynn? >> i don't have any high hopes for it. one of the reasons, if you look at the roll call from a few days ago on the compromise bill, four

of the people, rand paul, rubio, paul and congressman ryan who ran for vice president, they are all the major republicans who may be running for president in 2016. i think it will make it harder to strike a deal, especially with another deadline. these double deadlines coming up. again, may get piecemeal progress, not the big package. >> we should note if this committee like the last so-called super committee, if it also fails we're looking at more cuts come early january. >> yes. automatic. >> alan, really quick i, the president mentioned a foreign bill as well which regulates, among other things, subsidies to farmers, pays for food nutrition programs. what's the status of that legislation? >> it's similar to what we're seeing with the budget and immigration. what you have are republicans that are insisting on -- i think the ryan plan was $39 billion over ten years, cutting back on

food stamps. obviously democrats want something far less than that. they understand there needs to be reforms in the system and they want to work on that. that $39 billion number that the republicans have just been pushing, they're a world apart right now with the senate and with house democrats. we're seeing, again, that same sort of fight with that conservative portion of the house and how they try to reconcile that with this senate. >> alan gomez, "usa today," lynn sweet, "chicago sun-times." thanks to both of you. >> thank you. up in smoke in the mile high city? a new proposal would criminalize the smell of pot. that's right. just the scent of it. can it be enforced? >> south, east, west, young, old, will have decent quality health care as a fundamental right and not a privilege. >> the kennedy family's lasting legacy on health care. and this week they're making new calls to reform treatment for mental illness in this country.

former congressman patrick kennedy will join me live. what do don draper and claire dunphy have in common? they're stick in the middle with most of america. i'll explain after this. ♪ i'm wondering what it is i should do ♪ ♪ it's so hard to keep this smile from my face ♪ ♪ ...when the world called for stealth... ♪ ...intelligence... endurance... affordability... adaptability... and when the world asked for the future. staying ahead in a constantly evolving world. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. help the gulf ur commitment recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology,

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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. got some breaking news right now down in florida. this is a live news conference. the manhunt continues for two convicted killers who walked out of a florida prison using forged documents. this is the mother of one of those folks who escaped from prison. let's listen in. >> -- has experienced a frenzy of contact from both the media and law enforcement in the past week since the release of her son charles walker. some of the other family members are also present.

she was contacted by the department of corrections on the evening of tuesday october 8th informing her that charles was scheduled for immediate emergency release. to confirm that this information was correct, mrs. stanzi called back to the prison facility twice and was provided the same information both times. when asked if she could drive to the facility to retrieve her son, she was told that there was not enough time for her to make it to the trip -- the drive to north florida. she was also informed that the facility would take mr. walker to tallahassee -- >> well, it looks like we lost the feed there. we'll try to get back to that. this is a news conference down in florida. live pictures here, orange county. we're getting an update if the sheriff's office and we are going to in just moments hear from one the fugitive's mothers. charles walker and joseph

jenkins were serving decades-long sentences for murder and other crimes. again, let's listen in. >> the family made no attempts to conceal his whereabouts during this time. at this point, mrs. stanzi would like to focus on the safe surrender of her son to the appropriate authorities which is why she is making this appeal to the media and the public. ladies and gentlemen, mrs. stanzi, the mother of charles walker. she'll be speaking to you. please hold all questions at this time. >> charles, is there anything too hard for god? god knows who you are. i know who you are. your family knows who you are. we want you to return home safely.

we love you. we believe in you. we want you to surrender yourself to someone who you trust, who will bring you back in safely. we don't want any harm to come to you. i know you are a man of faith. you have a strong family bond and strong family values. i know who you are. you know who you are. and i just want you home safely, son. please come home. thank you. >> at this point i would also like to introduce mr. henry pierson, father figure to joseph jenkins. >> an emotional plea from the mother of charles walker. one of the two men in florida, again, both serving decades long sentences for murder and other crimes. they are on the run right now, at last check, authorities said they thought they were still in the area. but the mother of charles walker there essentially pleading to

her son's faith, saying i know that you're a man of god. is there anything too hard for god? we are going to, of course, keep our eye on this developing story down in florida. when there's an update we will, of course, pass it along to you. back now to politics. over the past few weeks we have seen how fragmented these united states at least congress can be. but are americans -- are americans as fragmented as well? there's a new survey out by "esquire" and nbc news. it attempts to identify the new american center. you can take heart from its key finding that the american public is not nearly as divided as congress. hogan giddley is strategist, chris is a democratic strategist. good to see both of you as always. >> good to see you. >> hogan -- >> thanks for having us. >> let me start with you, buddy. the study found that the majority of those polled fall

into the political center but some of the respondents didn't necessarily know they were in the center. 55% said they were moderates. 25% as conservative, 20% as liberal. why are not not nearly as polarized as its representatives in congress. >> paul pa-- part of that fallsn the shoulders of them, i think. the same goes for political parties. i think we do a disservice to the nation when we try and whittle it down to the most simplistic terms when it's obvious by that poll and things we've seen for a long time across this country that people have a wide range of opinions on several different issues. it's much more complex than right and left. mike huckabee talked about this when i walked for him as governor, when he went in for congress. so many people are focused on

being right or left. it's up and down. who brings the country up, who brings the country down? it's who can help your family, who can protect the nation. it's those type of issues where this poll exposed what's going on in america. >> the study further broke down the new center as party loyalists. 40% identify as democrat, 30% identify as republicans, they're anti-washington. the new center is secular. religion does not play a leading role in their lives. they believe in a safety net that government should be there in some way, shape, form or fashion. and the new center, tough on crime. does the model ring true by your experience, chris, is there a new political center in this country? >> i think there is. i mean, just in some of the work i've done over the last couple years i've noticed that it's harder to classify people in terms of boxes, meaning you're a

clear democrat and republican and clear independent. there's a lot, i think, movement across the lines, in part because i think people have moved away from the more divisive social issues. the country is becoming more progressive, more progressive on gay marriage and issues like immigration, even on issues like choice where i think it's more localized now in terms of the intensity. all that being said, i think here's the problem. the center i think is out there but they are constrained by the reality that because of gerrymandering and because of the primary system, the choices do not reflect their preferences. even if there is a center out there but the reality is you have the gerrymandering districts that produce more conservative or liberal members, you are a prison to that system. >> folks in the center don't win primaries. >> exactly. until that changes and you're see something of that change in states like, you know, california, where they're having top two races, meaning the top

two keanes go on to the runoff regardless of whether they're republican or democrat. that is not the norm. i think where the center has a chance of breathing and having more of an impact is where we're seeing it, which is in presidential races. in terms of congress it's not manifesting yet. >> hogan, here's an example of the groups that, according to this group of pollsters, this is an example of the groups that make up the center. mini van moderates, pop culture example, claire dunphy from "modern family." the nba middle, mostly white guys, they believe in the live and let live philosophy. this group, don draper from "mad men." the pickup populists. the whatever man group, who are

younger and less politically engaged than other groups. how is a strategist building an ad campaign for a 2016 presidential candidate, how would you target one of those groups? >> oh, wow. that's a great question. i guess that's what chris and i do. we have to figure those questions out. the whatever man is the most interesting. i think a large portion of the center while they do have politically strong views on certain things, i think they're less engaged for the most part than those small percentages on the far right or far left. it's not as interesting to them because, again, they're anti-washington. they don't like anything that's going on. a lot of people sadly, a lot of good people who could be running for office throw their hands up and say i'm sick of the whole process, i don't like any of these people. i'm going to be disengaged. they don't get involved like those on the hard core right and left.

>> hogan and chris, wish we had more time for you guys. we'll have to get you back. thank you. >> thanks. >> thanks. is there a rivalry brewing between the zuckerberg siblings? randy zuckerberg is said to release a children's book about a girl named dot who needs to put down her tablet and learn to unplug. some think the book and companion video is a not so veiled attack on little bro. >> there's more to life beyond the screen. we all need time to reboot, recharge and restart. ♪ we are family

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get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. it's a bird, it's a plane, no, it's philadelphia's mayor. michael nutter, he repelled down a 31-story skyscraper yesterday

to raise money for philly schools. that's what it's come to in the city of brotherly love, apparently. maybe with newark, new jersey mayor corey booker heading to the senate, nutter wants to be the next superhero mayor. that starts off saturday's political playground. speaking of booker, only straight-talking chris christie can mix congratulations and a slam in the same sentence. new jersey governor chris christie giving booker a pat on back for his big senate win this week, well, sort of. take a listen. >> i'm happy for the mayor. with his victory today. last night it was the first win the giants have gotten all year. little did tom coughlin know he was going to have to depend upon a washed up tight end from stanford. >> from one republican to another, does ted cruz have a future as a comedienne? in texas today he evoked a certain nbc late night host

while hitting a president. >> i'm reminded of a joke jay leno told about the last election. he said, so, president obama is targeting first-time voters. well, of course he is. the second-time voters have all graduated and they can't find a job. >> he cracked himself up, too. and more signs that washington is getting back to normal after the shutdown. the national zoo yesterday opening its doors to visitors for the first time in weeks for those outside d.c., that means that the zoo's giant panda cam is back up and running. you can waste hours at work or at home now and neighbors along pennsylvania avenue can take heart, the lawn got cut friday for the first time since the shutdown. in case all of that didn't cheer you up after the shutdown, the kid president has a new video up to remind us that we can all make the world a better place. ♪ the world's so big

♪ and the world's so small ♪ sometimes it feels like we can't do anything at all ♪ ♪ but the world can be better in spite of its flaws ♪ there's only two of us... how much dirt can we manufacture? more than you think. very little. [ doorbell rings ] [ lee ] let's have a look, morty. it's a sweeper. what's this? what's that? well we'll find out. we'll find out. [ lee ] it goes under all the way to the back wall. i came in under the assumption that it was clean. i've been living in a fool's paradise! oh boy... there you go... morty just summed it up. the next 44 years we'll be fine. you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪

when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪

malala yousafzai, is reunited with two of her friends who were also injured in that attack. they saw each other an a trip where malala was the guest of honor at the first public meeting of the global citizenship commission. the 16-year-old was also awarded with an honorary masters degree from that university. i'm craig melvin. good saturday afternoon to you. here's a quick look at some of the other top stories. the u.s. embassy in uganda is warning americans living in the country about an imminent attack. they say it could be similar to the westgate attack in uganda

last month. bill russell is in some trouble this afternoon. he was arrested earlier at seattle's international airport after tsa officials found a loaded .38 caliber in his legg luggage. he was also cited for having a weapon in a prohibited area. the nba legend was released. a south carolina deputy and a former marine is fired for handcuffing and roughing up a female soldier. the whole thing was caught on tape. both were off duty and out of uniform. at one point video shows paul derrick yanking on a chain and shouting commands at 23-year-old brittany ball. at this point it's not clear why the former deputy was doing it. could the smell, the smell of marijuana, could that soon be illegal?

in the mile high city, there's a new ordinance being considered by the denver city council and it would not only ban possession of pot in public parks but also punish people who want to use it in private. how you ask? basically if your neighbors can smell it, you could face up to a year in jail and $1,000 fine. i'm jone now by denver city councilman chris nevitt who helped draft that ordinance. how are you. >> i'm well. >> the editorial board strongly opposes this. clear deaf anythings of the difference between public and private space would help but the prohibitions cannot be as strict as what is being proposed. such harsh laws would undermine the will of voters and invite confrontations with law enforcement officers charged with enforcing unreasonable

laws. how exactly do you regulate what someone does on their own private property? >> that's a good question. and you know, this is early part of the legislative process. and i don't think anybody should confuse legalization with laissez-faire. we regulate the use and behavior associated with all kinds of things from alcohol to cigarettes to sex, frankly. and we're just in the process of doing that now for marijuana. we'll see how it turns out. >> here's the thing, though, cigarettes are legal and so is marijuana now in your city. >> right. >> secondhand smoke is legal. why wouldn't secondhand pot smoke be legal as well? we should know we know how unhealthy secondhand smoke is. >> sure. absolutely. there's places you're not allowed to possess or drink alcohol such as parks. there's places where you're not

allowed to smoke cigarettes such as in any enclosed space in denver. >> we're not talking about -- but we're not talking about possession and where you can smoke it, we're talking about essentially, correct me if i'm wrong, the actual getting a whiff of it. getting a whiff of it could get you in trouble. no? >> the first ordinance that was introduced is now being debated by my colleagues. >> what's the debate? >> and their input -- there's plenty to debate. you're trying to thread the needle here between allowing people to enjoy their own personal freedom while at the same time protecting the rights of others not to have the deleterious effects imposed on them. we do that for all kinds of substances. you should understand, denver was probably the first american city to embrace marijuana as an industry. we have licensed over 200 retail

locations. there's 700 lines in the city and county of denver if you include grow facilities and manufacturing pass -- facilities. we embrace marijuana. but we do need to find a balance between private enjoyment and public impact. >> denver city councilman, thank you. >> thank you. meanwhile, john hig -- hickenlooper is still looking at the damage done in his state. we go to colorado. tony? >> reporter: i'm in glenn haven, colorado, a town destroyed when floodwaters ripped through this state about a month ago. typically there would be hundreds of tourists walking around, townspeople enjoying themselves, caravans on the way

to rocky mountain national park. the roads here are completely washed out, destroyed. there's no timetable for replacing those roads. and the people of glenn haven are starting to wonder if their town is the town that the recovery effort has forgotten. we met the husband and wife that own the glenn haven general store. for more than 100 years, a centerpiece of this town. >> took a severe shot from several buildings crashing into it. >> 28 years we had flood insurance. we dropped it thinking fire was our biggest danger. >> water swept through the town and was followed closely by looters. with no sheriff and no national guard in sight, at this time, the people of glen haven are making sure it doesn't happen again. >> we're all armed. most of us are armed. it's one thing to have a firearm in your home and be willing to

use it to protect your home. in this case, it's everybody's home, it's our community we're trying to protect. if anything starts to happen, we'll have to take care of it and we will. >> reporter: maybe the general store and the town hall and the inn can be rebuilt but i spoke to an economyist athe university of colorado, he said the lost of one tourist season can be crippling and lethal to a town like glen haven. craig? >> thank you. time now to flashback to this day in 1985 when the first blockbuster store opened in dallas, texas. the video rental retailer became america's leading video chain. at its peak, more than 9,000 stores were open nationwide. but the digital age came along and took a toll on blockbuster's business model and the so-called dvd war soon followed. >> in an effort to compete with internet rivals blockbuster, the

nation's largest movie rental chain appears to deliver a hollywood happy ending. >> by 2006 blockbuster was confronting its rival netflix head on. >> blockbuster is desperately trying to stop online giant netflix. so through december 21st, any netflix customer can walk into a blockbuster store and walk out with a free rental. just bring in the part of the netflix envelope you tear off. >> despite the efforts, a harsh new reality arrived in 2010. >> blockbuster is filing for bankruptcy protection as it tries to re-organize. the company says it will keep its stores open. >> blockbuster did re-organize and today operates far fewer stores, instead focusing on revenues from online rentals and those blockbuster express kiosks. live right now in the commonwealth, hillary clinton is about to speak in falls church, virginia. terry mcauliffe at the podium now, of course, the democratic

nominee for governor there in virginia. is he in a somewhat unusual move going to be the candidate here interviewing the speaker. typically it's the other way around. let's listen in as terry mcauliffe gets ready to call hillary clinton to the podium. this is her first campaign appearance since she left office late last year, since she left the state department. >> of course, because of the schedule we were at a campaign event that day. luckily we were in beautiful winchester, virginia. dorothy and i have lived in northern virginia for 21 years. we have raised all five of our children here. we've gone to countless soccer games and school plays. and as dorothy mentioned, birthdays are a big moment. i wake up early every morning but birthday mornings are my favorite. now i have to admit that one of the toughest parts about being a parent is when your kids start to get older and start to leave

home. mary and dori have left for college. our son jack is at the united states naval academy. but they're growing up also reminds dorothy and me why we decided to do this campaign in the first place. we want all virginia children to grow up knowing that they're going to have the opportunities to succeed. and that shouldn't change because of your race, religion or where you were born. and it shouldn't change -- >> we have terry mcauliffe introducing hillary clinton. the introduction going on a little longer than we thought it might. chris has been standing by for us, democratic strategist, lynn sweet, washington bureau chief for the "chicago sun-times." the sheer optics of this, hillary clinton, no big secret she's considering a run for the white house. is this something that we are

going to start to see more of, hillary clinton out on the stump, campaigning in this case for a friend but might we start to see her just campaigning for other prominent democrats as well? >> well, i mean, i think we have to separate the two. i think one obviously this is a particular personal relationship, strong personal relationship with terry mcauliffe. that goes back years. i think she's very invested and excited obviously to be out there as a surrogate and supporter of his. that being said, going into 14, if she is leaning towards a presidential run, it's no state secret that that is seemingly the case, you'll see her go out there and become a very powerful surrogate in some of these key races, especially because there are a lot of races where there are key women running in congressional seats, senate seats. and obviously across the board in terms of the democratic party. she can be a very powerful voice, fund-raiser, surrogate, supporter, not to mention the fact that she also has a great

corporate part in the former president, bill clinton who can do the same thing. i think you'll see a lot of her but it's going to be strategic. >> lynn sweet, casey hunt brought up something at the top of the broadcast that i think bears worth mentioning again, this idea that hillary clinton when she was on the stump did not have the best reputation for being in that sort of off the cuff great stump spe speaker when compared to president barack obama and then candidate barack obama. hillary clinton, finessing the message, getting reps in, practicing that stump speech. >> hillary clinton in '08 was giving a terrific stump speech, especially when she had nothing to lose, when it became clear that obama was going to wrap up the democratic primary nomination. just remember the level we were at in '08. it was obama giving a super

duper stump speech. she was here, by comparison it might not have been as strong but compared to a lot of other candidates she was terrific. like i say, especially when she knew, craig, that whatever strategy was around her messaging, it was pretty darn good in the end. >> we're talking about hillary clinton here. let's not gloss over the fact that terry mcauliffe is running for governor of virginia right now. he has at least check i believe close to an eight or nine-point lead over ken cuccinelli. before the shutdown, that lead was considerably smaller, the shutdown appears to have hurt cuccinelli in a big way there in the commonwealth. no? >> i think what you've seen nationally in terms of the damage the republican brand, the republican party has taken, you're seeing it play out in glowing colors in virginia. now, for those who don't know virginia you have northern virginia which is obviously the suburbs of d.c. a lot of government workers who have not been happy with what

they've seen the national republican party do. in terms of what they see is an extreme o extreme out of touch wing. cuccinelli, he's the mayor for the out of touch voters. this has become ken cuccinelli's worst nightmare where he was having difficulty, i this i, connecting with voters in the key suburbs and the shutdown happens and the republican party brand takes a dive. he's in a brutal spot. i think mcauliffe is in a strong position going in the last couple weeks. >> lynn, why haven't we seen hillary clinton campaign for more prominent -- for more prominent candidates out there? more prominent democratic candidates? we didn't see her out there working for corey booker. we haven't seen her so far at least working for the woman who's running against chris christie either. >> one of the things i want to underscore is what chris said. you can't compare those other

candidates to the relationship that bill and hillary clinton have with terry mcauliffe. i think they want to help him because he has been a part of their personal and political life going back for more than 20 years. there's no relationships that the others have. so this isn't -- don't -- you know, craig, you just can't put them all as if it's equal and she'll pick one over another. terry mcauliffe plays a distinct role in the life of hillary and bill clinton. no one else does. i think this wasn't a matter that she now is going on the road for other people, i think she might have made an exception of not being on the road to take this saturday and other days leading in the runup to the election to help him out. he's the one person in america who has played a big role in both bill and hillary clinton's personal and professional lives. if there ever was a time for pay back, this is it. >> how will hillary clinton decide whether she's in it or whether she's not?

>> i think she'll take her time, as she should. as i know, i can only imagine and i've seen it from the candidate's perspective, running for president is an exhausting affair. she had an exhausting primary as we all remember. you have to get into the mindset and focused on i'm going to run and i'm putting everything again on the line because there will be -- there won't be another race. she's going to run to win and if she doesn't, that will probably be her last presidential campaign. i think she'll sit back, talk about it with her family and figure out the personal cost, the personal sacrifice you have to make to run for president. and then does she think she has a path to win? i think obviously the answer to that is yes. obviously in the prime, she goes in incredibly a dominant force. in the general election, the country is clearly ready for a woman president. and i think she will be a very significant, powerful candidate. you don't know where the country is. presidential elections reflect

the kind of environment that we face in a couple years. you don't know where the country is going to be. you don't know what issues will be dominant. she has to take all of that into consideration and say you know what, i'm going. my guess is, i think she's going to do it for a lot of reasons. >> again, you're talking, chris, and lynn, we continue to watch terry mcauliffe making, of course, he's got a roomful of potential donors, actual donors, campaign supporters. he is naturally enjoying the spotlight here. at some point he is going to be introducing hillary clinton. she is going to come to the podium and give remarks that are expected to last probably around ten minutes. lynn, you mentioned a long history between the clintons and between terry mcauliffe. can you speak more to that? what exactly -- what role has terry mcauliffe played for folks who may not be as familiar with their friendship? >> well, sure. just one thing that a lot of people i bet might not know,

because when they think of him as a fund-raiser web helped finance the house that bill and hillary clinton bought once bill clinton left the white house. it's a few blocks from where i'm sitting in northwest washington, their home down the block from the italian embassy was something that they wanted to buy and why now they have millions of dollars from bill clinton's various speaking fees and books. they were cash strapped when they left the white house. and terry mcauliffe helped arrange the bridge financing. if i'm remembering right, i think he signed the note to guarantee the money. >> that's a friend. >> that's just one -- let me talk to you about some other things if we have time. craig, i guess you'll let me know -- >> it looks like we have plenty of time. >> all right. so let me tell you some other things about donors. terry mcauliffe is one of the premiere democratic fund-raisers in the country but he's specialized in helping bill and

hillary clinton. he led bill clinton's -- he also is a personal friend meaning he will -- there's just so many stories written and it's in his own book, memoir, about playing cards with obama -- excuse me, clinton. because he is kind of works 24/7 like bill clinton did, he was a guy who the president could call late at night if he wanted just to talk. he also was a loyalist through the worst years of the clinton impeachment and the whole monica lewinsky thing. there is always terry mcauliffe around to be the loyal friend. then when hillary clinton decides to take her own list listening tour of new york, when she's thinking of running for the senate, he's there to help her organize her campaign and, most important, to raise money. he's also been an upbeat, cheerful supporter of the clintons. i know people who have been

solid friends of the clintons and loyalists. but no one has been there as 100% as terry mcauliffe. >> let's go ahead and listen in. it sounds like terry mcauliffe is about to bring hillary clinton to the podium. let's listen in. >> as first lady, united states senator and secretary of state, her leadership improved the lives of millions of women and made it even more possible for young women to realize if there was absolutely no limit to what they could accomplish. she started out working in her community representing children in foster care. and helping start a leading nonprofit for children and families in arkansas. as first lady, she fought for

efforts like the family and medical leave act which allows parents to take time to care for a new baby. without fear of losing their job. as a united states senator she stood up for the right of women to make their own health care decisions. and it was almost 20 years ago that she shined the brightest light possible on women's rights when she famously declared to the entire world that human rights are women's rights and women's rights are human rights once and for all.

it is an absolute honor to welcome her back to the commonwealth of virginia just two weeks from election day, dorothy and i are proud to call her a friend. ladies and gentlemen, hillary rodham clinton. >> hello, virginia! oh, thank you. wow. thank you all so much. thank you. i am so happy to be here, so pleased as i look out in the audience to see a lot of familiar faces. but also to be here to enthusiastically endorse my

friend, terry mcauliffe, to be your next governor. i thought hard about what i wanted to say to virginians today. i've been out of politics for a few years now. and i've had a chance to think a lot about what makes our country so great. what kind of leadership is required to keep it great. >> yours! >> so -- i want to start by sharing a little bit with you about terry and dorothy, because bill and i have been fortunate to call them

our friends, our very close friends for many years now. we've been in so many different situations together. we have watched terry and dorothy build and raise a family with five extraordinary children. we've gotten to know those children, dori and jack and mary and sally and peter. we have vacationed with them. they have been in and out of our lives as long as they've been alive. it says a lot about a person, about the values that they pass on to the next generation. terry's family is both his first love and his greatest accomplishment. nothing is more important and that's just the kind of man he is. now, it's also because he's married to an exceptional woman.

she is a champion not only for her five children but for all children. and she will bring both passion and compassion back to richmond. and so you ask yourself when you come to a political event like this and you see people standing up on the stage, what really brought them to this point? well, i've also known terry's parents and his brothers. and i've seen the values that he was raised with. he grew up in a middle-class family. he was taught about the dignity of work and the importance of looking out for each other. he started his first business at the age of 14. because he knew he was going to have to put himself through school.

he's lived those values and, boy, does he love people. you know, he's not one of these public personas that is great when the lights are on and then different when they're off. what you see is truly what he is all the time. he cares deeply about not only what happens to his own family and friends but to everyone. he has maybe the biggest heart and the most open mind of anyone you'll ever meet. terry has always been there for me and i'm pleased to be here for him. there are times when none of us

can sit on the sidelines, and right now, here in virginia, is one of those times. i don't have to tell you, i hope, that the whole country is watching this election. watching to see whether the voters of virginia lead the way of turning from divisive politics, getting back to common sense and common ground. also -- watching to see if it's possible to move toward a new economy that works for everyone. and also provides good jobs with good benefits for everyone. and where equal work really does mean equal pay. for everyone.

the whole country is watching to see if the rights of women and girls will be respected, especially over our own bodies and our health care. so even if i had never met terry and dorothy, even if i didn't know him to be a man of uncommon generosity and goodness, i would still be supporting him for your governor. because i believe that terry has what it takes to lead virginia forward in this rapidly changing world. now, i've spent four years traveling across the globe, a great honor and privilege to represent all of you. and i have learned --

i've learned even more about what it takes to make good decisions, what it takes to bring people together, to build the kind of future that we all want for our children and grandchildren. i've seen leaders who are divisive and i've seen leaders who are unifiers. i've seen leaders who are exclusive and i've seen leaders who are inclusive. now, recently in washington, unfortunately, we have seen examples of the wrong kind of leadership. when politicians choose scorched earth over common ground. when they operate in what i call the evidence-free zone --

with ideology trumping everything else, we've seen that families in virginia and across the country have felt the consequences. workers furloughed, businesses suffering, children thrown out of head start, poor mothers worried they won't get the help they need to buy formula and food for their babies. that is not the kind of leadership we need in virginia and america today. virginia has a history of getting it right. of electing problem-solving governors like mark warner and tim kaine who rolled up their sleeve sleeves, you know so well that both mark and tim reached across

the aisle, focused on getting answers to the questions that virginians had. that is the kind of leader terry is, that is the kind of governor he will be. for example, when governor mcdonald worked with the legislature to make historic investments in transportation that are vital to virginia's future, terry was there, supporting him and the legislature every step of the way. now, some would say why did you do that? he's a republican governor. it's a republican legislature. real simple answer. it was the right thing to do. and terry mcauliffe did it. and terry has focused his campaign on policies that will make virginia the most welcoming place in america for people who want to live, work and raise a family, not just for some but

for all. for women, for immigrants, for people of every race, religion and sexual orientation. terry will work to extend pre-k for our kids, because early learning will help them succeed in school and in life. and by the way, let's give another hand to our teachers like kelly who work so hard every day because they believe in our kids. now, terry has visited all 23 community colleges in virginia. because he knows that our young people and our not so young people, need skills and jobs that allow them to compete in the global economy. he has a vision for the commonwealth.

he understands how to create jobs, how to grow the economy and how to make people feel good about the future. and you can be sure of this, terry will do what is right for the women of virginia. he will stand up against attempts to restrict women's health choices and to ban common forms of birth control. you will not have to worry about that withive to in the governor's office. terry mcauliffe does not have a discriminatory bone in his body. he will work to stop efforts to discriminate against people for who they love. it is not just the right thing to do, it is also the smart thing to do. because if virginia wants to keep attracting the best minds and businesses from across the

world, openness and tolerance are essential. they are the building blocks -- for a creative, dynamic and diverse economy. so i guess you would expect me to say this but i believe it with all my heart. terry is running for governor for the right reasons. to help all our kids have the same opportunities to succeed that he had. when you think about why people run for office in these times, if it's only about yourself, if it's only about you wanting to get a job and get the perks that go with it and you know, have people stand up when you come into a room, that's not enough anymore because it's hard. politics is hard. as the lieutenant governor and

attorney general candidates know, because people are wary. they're wondering, can i give this person my vote? and will he then remember me? if i vote for him or her, will they do what i heard them say they will do? will they get diverted by big money or ideology or power or will they remember who put them into office? i can tell you, you don't have to worry about that with terry mcauliffe. he wants to give every person, especially every boy and girl in this commonwealth, the chance to grow up and fulfill his or her god-given potential. he will work around the clock. you will never find a more energetic chief executive.

there isn't anyone who will bring more enthusiasm to the task of helping you have the kind of life you are fighting for every single day for yourself and for your family. he will be a 24/7 governor for virginia. so we're coming down to the home stretch. i've been in a lot of elections. and i know -- i know that at the end of the day it all comes down to who takes the trouble to show up and vote. now, there was an article today in the "washington post," which quoted a young woman who was asked about this election and basically her answer was, well, i only vote in the presidential

elections. well, that's just not enough anymore. when you think about all the damage that can be done in a sta state. i hope -- i hope each and every one of you will take it on as a personal mission to encourage the people you work with, you go to school with, you live next door to, you meet in the supermarket, wherever you are, encourage people to vote. and recognize what is at stake in this upcoming election. you know, terry held up this card, the get out the vote card. and dorothy told me that many of you have already filled it out three or four times. but fill it out again and those

of you who haven't fill it out for the first time so you can be part of these final days, this push to make sure everybody who should vote for terry, for terry's values, for terry's plans for the commonwealth will do so. now, i love saying commonwealth. because you know that's an old word. and it is rooted in the idea that the common good should come before our personal or political interests. an old-fashioned idea but a really important value. it's who our founders, so many of them from right here in virginia, believed was the soul of the american experiment. you know, when alexis visited our country 200 years ago, he marveled at the way americans came together, how we volunteer, how we help one another. he called it, in a memorable

phrase, our habits of the heart. i don't think there's any other people in all of history or anywhere on the globe today who have those habits. but habits are no good if you don't exercise them. habits are no good if they atrofy because of cynicism about what we can do together. i have great confidence in what is available for each of us to do to contribute to the commonwealth and to the country that we love. every one of us has benefited by being given the fruits of the labors of so many people who came before. we cannot let those who do not believe in america's progress hijack this great experiment. and substitute for the habits of

the heart suspicion, hatred, anger, anxiety and insecurity. that's not who we are as a people. terry mcauliffe has some of the finest habits of the heart of anyone i've ever met. it's what makes terry the man he is and with your hard work and your help, it is what will make him a great governor. supporting and voting for terry mcauliffe will make you proud of yourselves, this commonwealth and, yes, of our country. because we will have confidence and optimism back in lead where all the values and ideas that can be generated to create the kind of future that the children that we love and cherish deserve. so everybody, please, let's get

out and get that vote on november 5th! thank you all very much! >> and there you have it, in her first campaign appearance since leaving at obama administration, hillary clinton went for about 20 minutes there and there were several vague and not so vague references to of course the shutdown that just wrapped up and gripped this country for some 16 days. there was also a fair amount of talk about women and girls rights in virginia and hillary clinton spent a significant portion of that speech talking about finding common ground and bringing people together. i want to bring backple dlic strategist chris, chicago sun times washington bureau chief, lynn sweet. lynn, let's start with she mentioned the scorched earth strategy that the gop employed there. several vague -- not so much vague or veiled, several overt references to the shutdown in my opinion. what was she trying to do there.

>> what she was trying to do without naming republicans, because that would have been too distracting to her main mission, which is to help elect terry mcauliffe, she was taking her shot, first time speaking out via illusion on the shutdown and basically politely in a low-key way jamming it to the republicans who brought the nation the shut down and to the brink of economic disaster a few days ago. because we could have a replay coming up in a few weeks, she was laying out a thing she is willing now to speak about. >> one of the things i found interesting about her speech, she was reading for prepared copy for 90% of the speech and halfway through it it appeared that she decided to go extemporaneous, speaking off the cuff. she said something akin to politics is har, people are weary of politicians and she talked about voters wondering why i put this person into office.

who was she speaking to there? >> i think she's speaking to every single american right now that is watching what's happening in washington and wondering what in god's name is happening in washington. i think it was very smart. the part i thought was impressive about her remarks, i mean, she's obviously a very good, you know, she's obviously very serious. there's a difference between giving a speech as secretary of state and giving a political speech. i like that she came across personal, passionate and very real, especially in the remarks she just mentioned that she went off her remarks. that is, i think, if that's what hillary clinton candidate looks like with her first political speech, i can only imagine where she's going to be in a year. that was very impressive. i'm not just saying that. i would tell you the opposite if i thought it was true. >> i know you would. >> always a pleasure.

thanks to both of you for sticking around as well. >> thank you. >> thank you. let's move now to the white house with the government shutdown now over, negotiations for a long-term budget have started. nbc's chrkristen kellinger is a 1600 pennsylvania avenue on a saturday afternoon. we know the budget conference was created, any sense, any hope that these folks will be able to reach a grand bargain? >> i think you might hear the white house lawmakers on capitol hill talk about a grand bargain publicly. but privately they acknowledge it is going to be incredibly difficult. first of all, remember, they have tried to get a grand bargain multiple times in the past, most notably back in 2011 when president obama and house speaker john boehner seemed to be getting close. those negotiations fell apart. washington is more divided now. it's hard to see them getting a big deal on entitlement reform and tax reform. i think what they will focus on

is getting something smaller, something that is more narrow, something that scales back the sequester, for example, potentially cuts in farm subsidies within insurance, employment insurance, maybe rolling back tax loopholes on a small scale. i think that the idea of getting something large done will be difficult. everyone just wants to get something done. of course, the budget battle we all just witnessed was bruising for all sides but particularly republicans, the majority of americans blaming them for the shutdown. president obama emerges with a little bit more leverage, democrats as well, they were unified in this past fight. still, republican say that the one thing the democrats want, which is potentially new revenues is a nonstarter. so here we go again. of course the deadline is in just a couple months. another cliff-hanger. >> oh, yes. kristen welker, thank you so much. appreciate that. >> thanks. let's turn to obama care right now. the signup website went down for

repairs again this morning and nbc news has learned that more problems are on the horizon. nbc's tom costello has more. >> reporter: good day to you. the white house is telling nbc news that it is not going to roll out the spanish enrollment tool of healthcare.gov on monday. it was initially expected to roll out sometime next week. hhs is telling us at the moment there is no expected rollout date. the white house does say the date of spanish speakers can still enroll in the affordable care act over the phone and in person. they can get information online where they will ultimately be able to enroll online but not yet. separately, the english version of healthcare.gov is being taken down over the weekend. it was done between 1:00 and 5:00 this morning. they expect it to be down overnight early sunday morning so the technical experts can work out the problems with the system. all of this as, of course, republican members of congress

plan to begin hearings in the coming week into the problems with the affordable care act and the rollout of the website that has been a very difficult experience for millions of americans who want to go online for insurance. technical glitches have been the problem and health insurance companies also tell nbc news that they, too, have seen big technical problems and they have received only a handful of applications. in one case, an insurance company in michigan told me they only had 24 completed applications and of course this was the second biggest insurance company in michigan. so this is still an ongoing problem. some applicants say they are able to get through and navigate the website but there are many, many problems out there, many glitches. craig? >> tom costello for us in d.c. thanks. tom just eluded to a hearing that will be happening this week. on the hill. health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius confirming a short time ago she's not going to be testifying at that congressional hearing

that's scheduled for this coming thursday. and the hearing itself is devoted to looking into the glitches related to obama care. secretary sebelius will not be there. no surprise that at this point republicans, including house speaker john boehner blasting the secretary for not attending. speaker boehner tweeting, quote, hhs secretary sebelius has time for galas and late-night tv but won't testify about obama care. he uses hash tag train wreck. what's going on here? ann joins me live from d.c. good to see you. let's start with the question a lot of folks are asking right now. what's the problem? >> well, we are seeing issues with healthcare.gov. we share that frustration and hhs needs to fix that. we know they're working night and day. it's important to know we have seen progress over the last few

weeks. i think it's important to note the work we are doing at enroll america at communities across the country, talking to consumers, working with other organizations has continued unabated. has actually grown. i think has even more importance. the reality is that for most uninsured folks out there, this isn't about visiting a website one time and going process. >> ann, ann, ann, you're going to start with a talking point there. there are a lot of folks that made this point. you knew millions of people were going to flock to the website to get insurance on the first day. why was the system not ready? again, i know it's not your system. i'm not asking you to defend the system. you can share in the frustration and perhaps shed some light on that. >> i absolutely do share the frustration. i think that anyone who is working on this or if you're a consumer that's checked out the website, it is frustrating. and we are all very eager to see that fixed. we know that hhs is working on that.

right now i'm focused on solutions. so i am, one, pleased to see the progress that we have seen. there absolutely needs to be much more. we know the white house and hhs is working on that. but i also think we can't just sum up the experience that consumers are having on what's happening at the website. because this is really about people having conversations, going to someone in their community, learning about the options available to them. taking that home, talking to their friends and neighbors and comparing their options. i think that's an important part of the story that isn't getting as much attention right now. >> in an invirtu with the "wall street journal," kathleen sebelius said this, we did not have enough testing. specifically for high volumes for a very complicated project. why wasn't more testing conducted? and was obama care perhaps, was the enrollment portion rolled out too early? >> i can't speak to the testing. i wasn't part of that process.

i've been focused on consumers. i think what's important at this point is we know it's an all hands on deck effort from the administration that they are taking it seriously and working night and day to get it fixed. i think 2349 meantime, -- in th, we nead to be talking to consumers, educating them and making them understand what options are available to them. for uninsured people, they may not know what a premium is. we need to meet them in their communities and help them navigate this session. i think it's more important than ever that folks are on the ground in answer those questions. >> we will be right back. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts,

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to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. 50 years ago this month, president john f. kennedy signed the community mental health act,

a historic step in educating funding and helping those with special needs. it was a monumental step in changing the way americans treated those affected by mental health issues. joining me live now, jfk's nephew, former rhode island democratic congressman patrick kennedy who continues working on the cause. good to see you, patrick. >> thanks, craig. >> first of all, how much has changed in last 50 years in the way that people with mental illness and special needs are treated in this country? >> well, a lot has changed, if you think about 50 years ago, if you had a serious mental illness, you were basically locked up in an institution. you were warehoused. you didn't even get treatment and, frankly, a lot has changed in both the attitudes in the general society and also in the ways that we take care of people, such that many people today live independent lives thanks to modern medicine.

but also modern health care that provides the array of services that allows them to live independently. i would say, craig, there are certain things that haven't changed. that's what we need to continue to work on. because if president kennedy were alive today and walked through any of our jails in america as i did just two weeks ago in our cook county jail, the cook county jail is the largest single mental health institution in the country. the los angeles county jail system has the largest percentage of people with mental illness of any institution in the nation. so what in some senses we've done in failing to reach president kennedy's vision is we have had a public health system in mental health like we have in other areas of health care. >> you're holding this mental health summit in boston with, among others, vice president joe

biden, kathleen sebelius, chelsea clintons. our own chris matthews will be there as well. what will you be talking about there? >> we need to understand the brain is part of the body. and it sounds so simple but we look at mental illness as a moral issue. we look it at someone acting strange, well, it must be their character that's bad. rather than looking at them as the chemistry in their brain might not be good. so we often treat these issues as moral issues rather than medical issues. we treat them as character flaws, not chemistry issues. i think ultimately we need to as a society have that conversation, because all of us have a brain and like every other organ in our body, it doesn't always work perfectly. and so we need to have a medical system that treats our brain just like it would any other organ of the body. that's the whole idea, craig, is

equality for the brain, if you will, by our medical system. >> switching gears slightly here before i let you go. your father, the late senator ted kennedy have a life-long dream of making sure every american had health insurance. he did not mince words at the 2008 democratic convention. here it is. >> this is the cause of my life, new hope that we will break the old gridlock and guarantee that every american, north, south, east, west, young, old, will have decent quality health care as a fundamental right and not a privilege. >> what would your father have thought about obama care? which of course has had a rocky rollout these last few weeks to say the least. >> well, what my father looked at health care as is a moral issue, because it is immoral, it's inhumane to not treat someone when they're sick. that is just beneath us as a

people. if we're all children of god, the notion that we could leave people out of life-saving care is a threat to our very society and who we are as a people. i applaud this president. yes, the rollout is rocky but the intentions and the goal of this health care bill that president obama was courageous enough to fight for is really what should unite us. we should come together, rather than criticizing and in the peanut gallery, we should come together and try to make it work rather than tear it down, because this is a noble effort. and that effort is to treat human beings with life-saving health care and it could be your family member that gets that life-saving health care. that i think is the reason my father felt like this was a kind of civil rights issue, a human rights issue. >> former congressman patrick kennedy, always a pleasure, sir, thank you. >> thank you so much, craig. with the government

re-opened, the president is planning to break the immigration impasse. but will bad blood between the parties block any deal-making on immigration? i'll talk to a congress mman wh has been leading the immigration fight. i'll do it on the other side of this break. this is msnbc. ♪ ♪ more adventures await in the new seven-passenger lexus gx. lease the 2014 gx 460 for $499 a month for 27 months. see your lexus dealer. for $499 a month for 27 months. building animatronics is all about getting things to work together. the timing, the actions, the reactions. everything has to synch up. my expenses are no different. receiptmatch on the business gold rewards card synchronizes your business expenses. just shoot your business card receipts and they're automatically matched up with the charges

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[ male announcer ] introducing at&t digital life. personalized home security and automation. limited availability in select markets. ♪ with the shutdown out of the way, president obama wants the house to act quickly on immigration reform. the senate passed a reform back in april. i want to bring in luis gutierrez. he's the author of a new book called "still dreaming," jie journey from the barrio to capitol hill. basically telling "usa today," quote, good luck, saying in part it's disingenuous to treat the house as an irrelevant branch of government and say by the way, tomorrow you'll need to push immigration reform. you said yesterday president obama needs to get on the phone

and talk to john boehner. how difficult is this going to be considering what we just went through? >> i think it's going to make it more difficult. obviously incredible victory. i supported the president. i came to congress to expand health care for americans. we stood up for health care and we stood up for obama care. i thought that was important. at the same time, we need to move on. but let me just suggest the following. i know, i look so young. i was actually around in 1996 the last time they closed the government down. interesting thing happened. newt gingrich, i didn't agree with him but he was thinking strategically, he didn't fare too well after they closed the government down. we passed kennedy-kassenbaum which helped expand health care rights, especially around pre-existing conditions, again, bipartisan. maybe this is a time for bipartisan.

>> things are different. >> give it a couple weeks. >> things are different than they were in 1996. congress seems to be more polarized than it was back then. >> true. i believe it is more polarized but at the same time how does the republican congress control house of representatives come back from this defeat? i think it was a success. and there are many members of the republican caucus that want to get this done. >> i want to ask you about the approach. there are some who are suggesting, of course, the senate has the bill they've passed the thinking now is that the house may do what it may do with the government shutdown and pass these piecemeal attempts to reform immigration. what's wrong with that approach? >> as a matter of fact, president barack obama has said if you want to do a piecemeal approach as long as at the end we do a complete bill -- >> piece by piece would be okay with you? >> it would be okay with me. look, if what you want to do is serve me coffee at 10:00 and toast at 11:00, i'm serious. but at the end of the day i have

a full breakfast, i'm okay. what we want to do is fix the system completely. if we only fix parts of it it will always be dysfunctional. >> i want to talk to you about securing the border, doubling the size of the border patrols to 38,000. this comes at a time when apprehensions are down from 1.7 million back in 2000 to under 400,000 in 2012. why pour so much money into a problem that seems to be getting better in a dramatic way? >> because the republicans -- look, the democrats wanted more votes. here was their thinking. >> we throw pork in the barrel? >> it's true. it's true. here's what happened. the thinking was, if we get a massive amount of votes in the senate, the house of representatives would just have to feel compelled to take up the vote. i thought that was faulty thinking. >> yes. >> so they had 60 votes, enough to get through culture and pass the bill. they wanted eight more. here comes a couple of senators and say give me 20,000.

they took $47 billion and where do they get the money from? from the savings of legalizing the immigrants. that is to say the congressional office budget if you legalize 11 million people, it's $157 billion to the good the first ten years. what did they do? simple math. give me 175, let's spend it right away by putting border patrol. it's a massive government employment program. >> the border patrol agents aren't picking up people anymore. >> it seems crazy. >> i was there. what we're doing in the house of representatives, even the republicans in the house of representatives want the mccall bill, a bill that has much more sensible border patrol and doesn't do this outrageousness of putting more border patrol. that's one of faulty areas in the senate bill. >> before i let you go, i'll give you an opportunity to plug your book. it's called "still dreaming." what's it about? >> a kid grew up living in an

apartment. i lived in an apartment, slept on a cot. my dad drove a cab, my mom wokked in a factory, came to new york city 60 years ago. it's a great american story. i got to sit down with the president of the united states in the oval office and debate comprehensive immigration reform. >> congressman luis gutierrez, always a great time. up next, worry sicked, dick chen cheney's shocking concerns over his pacemaker, the story line straight out of hollywood. copd makes it hard to breathe... but with advair, i'm breathing better.

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too hard for god? god knows who you are. i know who you are. your family knows who you are. we want you to return home safely. we love you. we believe in you. we just want you to surrender yourself to someone who you trust, who will bring you back in safely. texas senator ted cruz spoke at the texas medical association's fall conference earlier today. in his remarks he continued to hit obama care. >> obama care is doing is driving all sorts of people out of the market making it where they can't afford health insurance. i have to tell you by the way as i tour around and you talk to people, some of the most chilling conversations i've had is talking with the heads of hr at big companies. who describe how they and all of their colleagues are talking

about, well, as soon as these exchanges get up and running, as soon as there's a viable alternative, in all likelihood we're going to dump every one of our employees. >> dick cheney feared an assassination attempt by a heart attack. that's according to a new interview. the vice president worried about that possibility so much that he actually had the wireless feature of his implanted defibrillator disabled. cheney's cardiologist worried that a terrorist could hack into the device and send a signal that would send the then vice president into cardiac arrest. coming up, the brain trust is here. is there a hillary clinton and joe biden rivalry already deviling just years before a possible democratic primary? we'll talk about it. i'm not happy. sales go down, i'm not happy. merch comes back, i'm not happy. use ups. they make returns easy. unhappy customer becomes happy customer. then, repeat customer. easy returns, i'm happy.

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i've been out of politics for a few years now. and i've had a chance to think a

lot about what makes our country so great. what kind of leadership is required to keep it great. >> yours! >> someone was screaming you. i don't know if you could make that out in the background. former secretary of state, former first lady hillary clinton stepping back into politics a short time ago. in virginia she was stumping for her friend, terry mcauliffe, who's running for governor there. and matt welch, editor in chief at "reason" magazine. christine, let me start with you. mrs. clinton there in the commonwealth, you worked with her during her presidential campaign. can we draw long-range inferences from her appearance this afternoon? >> well, if she were here she

would tell you she still hasn't made a decision. >> if she were here i would say the same thing i'm saying to you. i don't believe you. >> for all intents and purposes the infrastructure is in place. >> was it ever dismantled? >> there are two mistakes the organization said they made last time. one was not having as many experienced presidential operatives. they bring on some of the obama operatives and craig smith has been brought on as number two. they took barack obama for granted it was too late. they're not going to take joe biden for granted even though he's pretending not to really be out front until she makes a decision. >> and the report is ttself

featured a somewhat provocative quote that said time and time again, clinton mentioned the vice president's opposition to the raid while characterizing herself and leon panetta, then director of the central intelligence agency as the action's most fierce advocates. could the former secretary have been laying the ground for what's going to be perhaps a line of attack against joe biden? >> craig, i would not read that much into this. i've seen reporting subsequent to that saying she's made a reference to this once or twice. it was a long speech. she mentioned this. joe biden has said in the past he was opposed to the raid anyway. to be totally honest, you look at the polls, i don't think hillary clinton should be worried about joe biden. she's well ahead in the polls. most democratic operatives, even some close to biden consider her be the front-runner. i think elizabeth warren is more

a likely person to upset hillary clinton like obama did a few years ago. she's been praise-worthy of him in the past. let's talk about obama care and the glitches that continue. obama care gets rolled out. >> kathleen sebelius will not be testifying at that hearing. she of course has been the at physician's point person. speaker john boehner wasting no time going on the attack. hhs secretary sebelius has time for galas and testifying about the obama care train wreck and reported a short time she

will be at this event with patrick kennedy, as well. how much of a mistake is it, matt welch, for her not to show up? >> i think it's a big mistake and pales in the comparison of the colossal mistake of the way the administration rolled out obama care, the exchanges themselves. "the new york times" last week had an incredible story on sunday talking about the political in some cases decisions to delay naming the regulations and this kind of stuff. this is a train wreck. this really is and they had ample warning from the people operating the computer technology and stuff and said this is not working and what she said publicly and privately, over and over again, don't worry about it. we'll wish it and make it come true. >> how real is the possibility they knew that the roll-out itself was not ready for prime time and fearing the backlash to get from those on the right, they said, you know what, we got to put this thing out? we can't delay anymore. >> that's a good point.

i don't think the administration and president obama wanted to back off the program, particularly with the pressure on the hill over this whole shutdown to try to repeal it or defund it. you know, matt's right. it has not gone well, particularly the national computer networks. some states like connecticut and others have been working well but what i would say is this. back in 19 -- 2005 rolling out the part "d" changes in medicare, that also stumbled for a while. any new program like this, 13,000 new health care products, takes a while to get the bugs out. on the other hand, you can't wait too long. people back off from going on the computer network and trying to sign up if they feel they can't get on. i would say one last thing. in massachusetts, when romney care was rolled out, people went on 18 times before -- >> you mean obama care part 1? no, no. just kidding. >> yeah, right. they went on 18 times to look at things before they made their decisions so it's really too early to say, you know, whether

because there have been very few enrollees yet what will happen. you don't want to discourage them, especially the young, healthy people. >> not too early to say if they don't get the people to sign up by december this system is screwed. >> in trouble? >> program might be delayed. >> they have to march, don't they? >> they do. this was brought up to me a few days ago. part of this is also about the president's argument that government can do big things to improve people's lives. and then you have something like this, a big thing and it becomes, you know, a pain. >> i think you're right, craig. that's the thing. this was -- this law not just about health insurance but can the government take on the big challenge and succeed in doing so? so far it's been really messy to see that health care law and the worry not necessarily the website doesn't work today. i'm not sure based on what i have read is december 15th which is the day that if you sign up for insurance that it will go

into effect for next year, that it's working then either. it has to be working. >> perry, christine, matt, by thanks to all of you and you, as well. see you tomorrow. 3:00 eastern. my special guest former texas senator hutchinson. first, "disrupt." ing warm and dy has never been our priority. our priority is, was and always will be serving you, the american people. so we improved priority mail flat rate to give you a more reliable way to ship. now with tracking up to eleven scans, specified delivery dates, and free insurance up to $50 all for the same low rate. [ woman ] we are the united states postal service. [ man ] we are the united states postal service. [ male announcer ] and our priority is you. go to usps.com® and try it today. prefer the taste of gevalia house blend over the taste of starbucks house blend? not that we like tooting our own horn but... ♪ toot toot. [ male announcer ] find gevalia in the coffee aisle or at gevalia.com

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thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. 88 days until the next government shutdown. >> there are no winners here. >> that was a remarkable victory. >> in the old days we'd strip them naked and make them leave town. >> of their entire list, they're going to get nothing. >> i say it's president obama, his arrogance fueled the shutdown. >> can you make sense of the week that just was? >> no, i can't. nobody can. >> thank god it's over. >> over? did you say over? >> you would do it again? >> i would do anything and i will continue to do anything i cano