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new juicy details on the campaign change in the campaign. one potential contender is in hot water this week for plagerism. what exactly did rand paul say? where was it said before? most importantly, will there be long-term fallout for rand paul going forward? today on up against the clock, very exciting, we inaugurate the legends division. our first congressional slate of contestants. stick around for that. first, this weekend marked one full month since the launch of the obama care website october 1st. >> that rollout we can safely say has been an absolute disaster for the obama administration both in terms of image and impact, all for the very simple reason the website has not worked. the driving principle behind the site is to acquaint uninsured americans with the various health insurance plans available to them to entice them to sign up for what is the signature legislative achieve. of this president.

if the success of that plan depends on getting young people to sign up, young and healthy people to buy into this system, expand the poll to offset the cost of older americans, all that is true, it is critically important that the main vehicle actually works. just yesterday, darrell issa's house oversight committee released document, that were meeting notes allegedly from the 4.7 million americans who trapped down the site on its opening day, only six people enrolled on an insurance plan on that day. day two according to issa documents, 248 actual enrollments have taken place. the obama administration has not released its own numbers. if they stand, they are incredibly low, low numbers are not all that unusual t. dwrd that most people don't sign up until they are absolutely forced to and even then at the very last minute. under romney-care in massachusetts, in many ways, this was the template of the

affordable care act. this is where things stood after one month, 123 people have seened up. granted, it is one state, there are 34 states using the federal obama care website. that's about one-third of 1%. after otwo months in massachusetts, just 2,300 people have enrolled. it was only after 11 months under the threat of a penalty about to be imposed that more than 36,000 people in massachusetts would go on to enroll. most of them didn't enroll until that 11-month mark. so obama care can work. it won't kick in until the end of next march, five months from now. getting it to work depends on getting the problems ironed out and getting americans of all ages signed up. the obama administration needs to straighten out the political mess it's created. it's not just one future cabinet secretary at stake.

this is the fate of the democratic party and beyond it is tied to whether obama care succeeds. the short term, that means getting the website fixed. in the long term, that means getting the website fixed. once americans who don't currently have health insurance are enrolled, what do republicans then arc you? do they still push for appeal, taking away this tangible benefit that members of the public have gained and grown to like? there there is a chance obama care will fail, what does the gop aim for next if it doesn't? i want to welcome the head of the environmental agency, christine todd whitman, democratic congressman joachim jeffreys from new york and msnbc political reporter david weigel. thank you for joining us today. a heavy new jersey presence here on the panel today. the rollout of the affordable

care act, it seems like there are two issues, one has to do with the basic fact of what the administration can do what are the real deadlines they are up against? it's been problematic this hasn't worked for the first month. at what point does this become a crisis all this talk about extending deadline, at what point does that come in? congressman holden, i'll start with you, where do we stand on that time table right now in. >> well, to have an effect by jurn, you have to sign up by december. so that if you really want coverage, that's the deadline. if you are looking at when penalties start to accrue, then you've got a couple more months, so it is somewhat flexible deadline, i guess maybe the insurance deadline is different than the political dead lean. >> so to be clear, deadlines we are looking at, january 1st, people could actually start, obtain the way it's designed, people could start obtaining

coverage, coverage could go into effect january 1st. it's not until march 31st people need to be signed up for it. when you look at it, this idea of delays put out there. i know there are opponents of this that want to sink it. do you think that should be in the conversation here at all? >> well, i think a lot of it depends on when the problems with the website can be remedied. it appears the administration has set a deadline i think of november 30th in terms of making sure healthcare.gov is up and running, accessible by the public. everyone who is interested in being able to review the marketplace and access health care. if that is a realistic possibility, that these glitches can be worked out, i think it's reasonable to move forward in the current time line, if for some reason there will be further problems in getting things remedied, then i think the administration may at that point in time have to put on the table a short term delay.

>> how do you feel about that? we all knew october 1st was coming. it looks like this clearly was not ready for october 1st. now as you are saying, the administration is saying around thanksgiving time, end of november, this will be up and running. do you have high confidence? do you have a sense, yeah, we can take this to the bank? >> i know the white house and hhs, nobody is pleased. the president is not pleased. leader pelosi is not pleased. democrats aren't pleased. i think we should take a step back and recognize this is a fundamentally landscape authoring landscape that will make a difference in the lives of tens of millions of americans. with that in mind, yes, there are short-term problems. not withstanding that fact i think if we all put the attention that is deserve e deserved on making it work as opposed to my friends on the other side of the aisle concerned with simply making sure it fail, in the end, it will be the greatest thing for america. >> we have a friend on the other

side of the aisle. governor whitman, that's interesting to think about. republicans have made a lot politically in the past few weeks about the problems that splattered up here. from the minute this was proposed, from the minute the blue print for this was established by the president if 2009 the public position has been totally and complete opposition. as you look at the roam of this, yes, there is a possibly it will be successful, they will get the numbers into this thing. this could still be an effective law. as a republican, do you think, yeah, this could work and our party needs to change its pos cure at some point here? >> i thought from the beginning the party had the wrong posture, i would be advising and said, look, it's a huge reach. it's a big government program coming down on people, forcing people to buy insurance that they may not want, coverage, say that, you can say that. but say here's what we need to change it. here's what we need to make it

work. because the average american knew our health care system was in need of help. they have seen costs go up dramatically, there are costs that are absolutely things people want, preexisting condition, allowing you to keep your children under 21. those kind of things. so to say you are going to do away with it doesn't make a lot of sense. i would have said, we think this is a big problem, it's going too fast. it's a 2,000 page bill that nancy pelosi says we won't know what's in it until we pass it. here are the changes we'd like to make and then sit back. if it's going to fail, let it fail of its own accord. >> governor, when you mentioned, we have to pass it to find out what's in it. i mean, you know that it is a, well, let's call eight red herring at least. >> it's a quote i heard referred to many times, that's all. >> we can say that about a transportation bill, about any complicated piece of legislation. >> sure. >> we have to see how the

citizens responds to it. you know, is the incline of an onramp, is the height of the guardrail good enough to stop highway debts? we'll have to see how the drivers respond to it. >> we'll have to see how the mayors participate and monitor that. >> you are covering down on capitol hill hill, too, what is your sense? right now, they have been successful at. it's easy when the rollout is rocky and are you the opposition party that point to all the problems. but is there a longer term, are they thinking, hey, if three months from now, the enrollment numbers are pretty good, what are we going to do? are there conversations taking place at all? >> i don't think they've thought that quite far ahead. one of the reasons ted cruz would give for the fess saysty of defunding obama care, at the end of 2014, when subsidies kicked in, people are getting free stuff from the government, i'm paraphrasing. then it's going to become a popular law.

they haven't quite reckoned the hope. i don't want to be too cynical about it. the hope and expectation is it was going to collapse under its own weight. you talk to a lot of republicans that say, i was under the cruz plan, they haven't reckoned with what will happen if after a long laborious process people end up liking what they got. a lot of stories, people are getting letters canceling their plan, when you dig a bit, those are plans that would not be great at all. i think it's, i'm going to mention a statistic about a lot of people who go where you want from medical bills have that kind of insurance plan. after the sticker shock wears off, they don't quite know what to do and their hope and expectation is this is going to remain popular. democrats panic a little bit but can see the good things coming down the line. >> i want to take that point. if you take a step back historically, it's been more

than three years since this passed to see one political party be unanimously opposed to something. it's become law, you have to go back to before the civil war to find legislation that sort of consistently polarized and controversial. we will also talk to a republican from massachusetts where they went through the rollout of the blue print for obama care, six, seven years ago, a different bipartisan experience. we will talk to them right after this. my customers can shop around--

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>> then governor mitt romney, democratic legislators, senator ted kennedy, many of the folks who are here today joined forces

to connect the progressive vision of health care for all with some ideas about markets and competition that had long been championed by conservatives. >> that was president obama on wednesday in boston, comparing the affordable care act with the bipartisan care act in massachusetts that served as its model. it was passed by then mitt romney, he was also the president's republican opponent last 84. the massachusetts senate minority leader joins us now from boston. he served since 1995. he supported that massachusetts health care law within it passed in 2006. senator, i thank you for joining us this morning. i wanted to talk to you specifically, republican for massachusetts today because the contrast between how the implementation of what you call romney care in massachusetts and the implementation of obama care at the national level, it's so striking to me, in massachusettes, this was a bipartisan effort. this was a republican

government, democratic legislators, romney and ted kennedy, can you talk about what that process was like. some of these early glitches, the enrollment from massachusetts, it took a long time for people to get enrolled in this. it sounds like a hopeful model nationally. can you talk to people about it? >> it's great to be here in boston. we celebrate the red sox victory, i will tell you when we started down this path, we actually did it in a different way than what the federal government has proposed and enacted with regard to the affordable care act. our act was based on getting flexible from the federal government. we tried to put pieces together. great credit to governor romney and then united states senator ted kennedy for actually going to washington and saying we need the flexibility to be able to use medicaid in creative ways, for instance, to be able to insure our population t. goal at that point was to preserve the free market. preserve competitive forces, not to say there would be one health

insurance plan offered by state government but state government would help people avoid the private marketplace. there was a substantial difference between the environment between doing those kind of things and having what we have in the affordable care act, which are a set of rules impairing our ability to carry out the massachusetts act as we envisioned it when it was passed just a few years ago. >> but the basics of romney care, what he did in massachusetts is the blooper. the guy that designed romney care is the guy who basically designed obama care on a fascial level. his quote, he said it's the same bleeping thing we he is asked about this. basically, the principle you have up there in massachusetts is making private insurance affordable to individuals who don't now have insurance and using state subsidys to pay for it. that's the same guiding principles at the federal level. it's striking they are in board in massachusetts but not nationally. >> one of the things that we

would never do and where we take issue with that statement is we would never impose a medical device tax on an industry that represents about two-and-a-half percent of our gross domestic product in massachusetts that will cost jobs here in massachusetts. one of the problems is what we did in massachusetts was tailored to our population. it took advantage of health care and a number of different things, one of them, steve, was the fact that we had merged the non-group market with the individual market to try to spread out risks. what does the federal plan do? well, it reduces the number of rating factors we can use to evaluate risk for that pool. it's undermine wack we want to do. in fact, we have pleaded with our governor, governor patrick has asked the federal government, give us a waiver so that we can evaluate and price risk fairly and yet we now are going to be forced to use 4 rating factors as opposed to 106789 that's one of the major points of distinction here,

massachusetts plan worked because it was designed for pennsylvania. we had expertise, for instance, in pricing risks. we had growth markets in medical devices. yet, when we look at what's happening at the federal level which claims to be mirrored on what we did in massachusetts, it's impeding our ability to carry out the plan we set out that has worked so successfully. >> i know governor patrick has a different version. congressman holt wants to ask you a question. >> senator, thanks for taking time away from the ducks this morning to join this conversation. i mean, what you have just described is the justification for having the state exchanges we have tried to have all across the country. what was different in massachusetts was not that you had more freedom, it was that you had a commitment to providing standard for what is offered and greater coverage for everyone if massachusetts.

>> that is what is lacking at the federal level is a oneness by all parties to try to do that, to seek higher standards for insurance so that it's worthy of the name health insurance. i mean, it's easy to him co up with a policy that doesn't cover anything and it will be cheaper and what's lacking is this determination, with everyone that's covered and you had that in massachusetts by all parties and the funding you didn't have to have a device tax or other taxes. sure, you were getting a lot of medicaid money from the federal government. that's the point. >> there was no doubt we were getting medicare money and having flexibility to our needs was very important. unfortunately, one of the prices of that medicaid money now is to have some things that in my

opinion are very detrimental to the act we passed and to be able to continue to move forward. because one of the things we did was one of the relatively easy things here is reduce coverage. we now have one of the greatest rates of insurance coverage in the nation. in fact, we're at about 98%. i don't know it will get much higher than. that but the elussive thing here is always the issue of cost containment and what are you going to do to truly make things affordable? so the flipside of your argument is that if we continue to mandate things people can't afford, we have two choice, one, we will increase our subsidies or, two, we have to have a safety valve, in fact, one of the most recent studies released indicates that for males, non-smokers, 30-years-old, they will see a premium increase of 230%. for females, it will be close to 200%. so if we continue to mantate things, i agree, we don't want elouisry policies that don't

mean anything. if we continue to have these heavy-handed mandates for coverage, we will price the people we want to help out of the market. >> we can litigate the differences between the two. we can point to cost saving initiatives that exist at the federal lechlt i know the providence journal, not in massachusetts, close enough. looked at the plan a few months ago and said there is more cost control. . because there is bungling of payments by medical conditions. it does not take place. we request go back and forth. i want to thank you for joining us today. we will pick up this discussion right here right after this. bou. ♪ and smarter. ♪ it's the culmination of a million decisions... it's where you see yourself going... and how you choose to get there. the 2013 gs. our boldest response ever.

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spending the day with my niece. i don't use super poligrip for hold because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free. with just a few dabs, it's clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip. . >> let's pick up this discussion where the affordable act is. congressman jeffrey, you got a little about the opposition, the republican opposition presented for since the very beginning going back four years. i was saying i can't think of

any law, any major law that's been passed in the last century plus that faced that sort of level of reflexive partisan opposition when it was being enacted, after it was enacted. that's the extraordinary thing here. there was a story in politico yesterday that looked at the measures republicans had been taking since it was enacted to ab to go this thing. can you think of any parallel to what we have seen from republicans on this? >> i don't think there is any parallel modern civil discourse. the house republicans since they took office in 2011, the terms of the majority they attempted to delay or defund the affordable care act. each time it's failed, it's cost the americans more than $50 billion in the context of the latest government shutdown brought to us, tied to the affordable care act. it costs the american people $24 billion in terms of lost economic productivity, what is

important to note is that the fundamental underpink of the affordable care act is a conservative idea first put into the public dopane by the heritage foundation in the 1990s because this was a market based approach. they were for it before they were against it because it's tied to president obama. >> so, governor, is that really what this is? because we've heard a lot about you. it was the heritage foundations plan in 1949, it's the basis for obama care, what we had in massachusetts, is it really as simple as republicans looked at this and said this is the president's initiative. we want to oppose him and they've sort of stuck on that the last three years? >> it's a combination of the hyper partisanship we see that has been coming several decades, getting worse and worse, where every issue is looked through the policy prism, what is going to get me another vote on caucus

and those who honestly believe a program like this from the federal government this size, which we said, you said it, all the big ones have glitches coming out, inevitable. they tend to be a one size fits all. you got to deal with the entire nation, for those that believe so strongly, this is a real overreach, it is requireing people that have somebody my age to have maternity coverage, it's not going to be something i'm going to need, that's mart of the pushback that you get, of course the disaster of the rollout, which has been a disaster and people trying to get onto it. maybe, i'm sure, over time, we can work anything out. we work things out. i think you are right, now it's become part of the philosophy, you just will be opposed to this and i'm not sure that that's in the best interest of our party. >> steven, i remind you to look at the vitriol that was thrown at medicare in 1965 and for years afterwards.

it's a program that's loved now. as far as rollout, look at medicare part d, many years ago most of us democrats opposed the way it was done thinking it should be a regular part rather than a separate insurance program. actually, it's worked better than i thought it would. i'll admit that. but at the time it was rolled out, there was lots of glitches. the difference was democrats many of us held town meeting, sent out e-mails to try to make it work. even the program we had voted against. >> one of the first stories congressman role call, remember a story in 2005 or 2006 about the congressional black caucus walk u working on the signups for medicare part d. a lot of the members voted against it. awe said is what i am waiting for, when a republican says what you said, this has worked better than i thought, that's when you know we have entered. we have not heard anything like that. that's what i'm asking. >> if the enrollments work, come

on this show, do it. the plot to dump joe bodyen, mitt romney making fun of chris christie, president obama getting exasperated with bill clinton. so it's time for the tell-all books. >> that is next. ready to run your lines? okay, who helps you focus on your recovery? yo, yo, yo. aflac. wow. [ under his breath ] that was horrible. pays you cash when you're sick or hurt? [ japanese accent ] aflac. love it. [ under his breath ] hate it. helps you focus on getting back to normal? [ as a southern belle ] aflac. [ as a cowboy ] aflac. [ sassily ] aflac. uh huh. [ under his breath ] i am so fired. you're on in 5, duck. [ male announcer ] when you're sick or hurt, aflac pays you cash. find out more at aflac.com. wears off. [ female announcer ] stop searching and start repairing. eucerin professional repair moisturizes while actually repairing very dry skin. the end of trial and error has arrived.

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may i read something? yes, please. of course. a rich, never bitter taste cup after cup. net weight 340 grams. [ sighs ] [ chuckles ] [ announcer ] always rich, never bitter. gevalia. . >> there's one thing political junkies love more than the suspense, it's the tell-all books released after the campaign. the 2012 race is turning out to be no exception t. latest pot boirl is "double down" by mark halperin and john heilemann. something they uncovered has been unveiled by jonathan martin in the new york times including the obama campaign looked at possibly maybe replacing vice president joe bodyen with

hillary clinton and he finds it difficult to spend long times with president clinton. said obama about clinton, supposedly, i like him in es dos and mitt romney released as a potential running mate because of his concerns of background and health. the book hasn't been released yet. i'm sure there will be more people will be talking about. i'm always of two minds, i. my all time favorite campaign book is "what it takes" it was the an antithesis of game change, people you run for president, it was timeless, it was about 1988. it could have been about any year. this is so geared towards the sort of what was going on behind the scenes. >> that said, it is interesting. this biden hillary thing, you heard it from the minute they were inaugurated in 2009, oh, are they going to replace biden with hillary? it never made sense to me, it would look like a desperation move. why would hillary want that

either? it would be on her to win or lose the election. is it real, do we know? >> this is one of those stories in walk or the new yorker, those centers of iniquity, you can rt the sum democrats want hillary on the ticket easily, there are interests in both camps. >> but the story here, bill daily the white house staff, he is admitting saying we did poll it. >> biden is still here, daily isn't. we saw where obama went. >> i think we learn in the book. i'm reading myself. as a boot leger for this book. obama and biden got closer as the presidency went on t. flare-ups leak the gay marriage in 2012 were middle eastern. those are the kind of things in the campaign that never made any sense. the last time i think this was done successfully was fdr, it would have looked desperate. it does, the way i think it's

more interesting what we learned in this book that biden was trying to kind of run a side game at some of the donor events he was doing, it makes a lot of sense, using more donors, we don't hear it in that context is if you look at his polling, it is lousy, he is not covered the way dick cheney is covered. he has obama's numbers, minus the democratic support. if he became serious, democrats would worry about him running. i think he has been effective in thisb jo. they are raising the national figure. >> well, he seems, from what i can tell from the reporting and what i've heard from talking to a few people, joe biden clearly has interest for running for president. he is sensitive to the idea that he is not taken seriously inside the organization. i look at a revelation like this i wonder, in 1996, you were sort of in the deep stakes that you rumor milled. you had been through that

process of having your name thrown out there. from the joe biden standpoint, what is going on in the administration where this news breaking what he might be saying? >> that's a problem. you always got to be skeptical of gossip. you know how reporters do it. you talk to one person, you get a little green. you go to another and say i've heard, you try to get something that substantiates and build it that way. i would imagine the vice president is feeling a little nervous. a little unhappy. this can't be good for him. it's not a big deal. it's a book, a gossipy book. supposedly what happened. i'm sure they did get some verification, we know there was polling done. you can't be happy with it, i don't know whether it will affect his decision to run for the presidency. >> so is this the kind of book, did you read game changer? will you read double down? >> well, it is an interesting book. i'm not sure i'll have the time to read it. however, i do think as it

relates to vice president biden, he is incredibly well respected. he's got relationships on both sides of the aisle, particularly in the senate. but as well as in the democratic house side of things and, you know, it's a good thing that vice president biden hadn't been similar in the person that in which he's conducting himself with dick kane. that was a debacle. but vice president biden has been a trusted aid, a useful allie both politically and governmentally. now, in terms of what will happen in 2016. hillary clinton's potential can the daisy will trump everything in all likelihood, short of her entering into the race, he has as good a chance as anybody. >> thank you for joining us. up next, what happens when you put two former congressmen an one current law maker together in front of some podiums. today on up against the clock, it means having very different. because we are inaugurating the

legends division, america's fastest abbreviated saturday morning politics an or current events kwisz show, our first all congressional slate of contestants, today will be 12% gold in honor of congress's approval rating. they will play for it next. .

. >> here we are calling the legends division. country. member the only five time jeopardy in congress, he bet the super computer watson a few years ago. they are about to face the weekly test. up against the clock. they personally assured me they put their politics aside, no red, no blue, quick thinking, ijuvenile buzzer pressing. -- agile buzzer pressing.

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. >> live from rockefeller usa, a special member of congress edition of "up against the clock." first, the man who represented the world famous 24th district of texas, between dallas an fort worth between 1979 until 2005, please welcome former congressman. and from virginia, who represented the commonwealth and celebrated the 11th district the home of the george mason patriots, the former congressman tom davis. finally the only member of congress to take on the watson super computer and win, the man who would beat the future resistance to the robot

uprising, but now the host of "up against the clock," it's steve kornacki. >> thank you, bill wolf, thank you, studio audience, thank you at home for tuning into a special edition of "up against the clock." today the legends division our first all congressional group of contestants. you know the rules by now, there are a few instant bonuses scattered in here. i implore you, studio audience no, outburst, our contestants deserve and demand absolute concentration up against the clock. with that, contestants, are you ready to play? >> yes. >> they look ready to me. hand on buzzers, please, the 100 point round with 100 second on the clock. we begin with this. this one-time rising republican star who was rumored to be a contention for john mccain's vp slot in 2008 is expected to announce on monday he will run as a democrat for governor --

rush. >> governor crist of florida. >> correct. >> who predict what happened top democrat this week? time harry reed said that to rachel maddo yw. >> what iconic boston fifteen venue. >> nathanial hall. 100 point question, the second circuit court of appeals on thursday blocked a series -- rush. >> the prescription contraceptivive. >> incorrect. tom. >> the texas abortion law. >> no. >> encorrect. martin, i can complete the question. it blocked a series of questions mandated be afederal judge to

what controversial new york city practice? martin. >> stop and frisk. >> stop and sfrifk correct. 100 point question, doning a formal tie over his signature red fur, who joined michelle obama at the white house this week to pro moes healthy eating habits? time. correct answer is elmo joined the first lady this week. 100 point yes question, op ed called obama care a ponzi scheme and was amended multiple times this week was pinned by what three's company sit-com star. time t. correct answer there was suzanne somers. the old pop culture questions, doubling them up there. brings us to the end of our 100 point round, martin at 100. tom at negative 100. rush at 100. very even match. with ego to the 200 point round. these questions get a little

trickier. we put 100 seconds on the clock. gentleman, we go with this according to politico, at the time cruz sought to improve relations with his republican senate colleagues this week by promising them he will not -- >> run against them, not work against them in their own primary. >> be more smefk spec. >> not support or contribute or support anyone running against them in the republican primary. >> we cannot accept that. i'm sorry. i will complete the question. he will try to improve relations with his colleagues by promising he will not raise money for kwi which specific group targeted? >> senate conservatives. >> correct. >> the boyscouts of america selected on wednesday which former dfgs secretary rt man. >> gates. >> robert gates is correct. the new boyscouts of perk question. 200 point question with regoing to be on permanent defense for the foreseeable future is the bleak assessment of a strategist

writing in a moem memo in what major state? >> time. correct answer is california. california. 200 point question, this leader, this world loader was named this week by "forbes" magazine as the world's most powerful person. time. vladmir putin of russia. 200 point question. this current cabinet secretary received a high five from red sox center fielder jacoby. >> secretary kerry. >> john kerry is correct. dwurg world series game on wednesday. during his 2004 campaign, kerry famously mangled the name of the green bay packers home field calling it what? >> calling it? >> no penalty for guessing here. >> frigid field. >> he called it lambert field, it was actually lambeau field.

brings us to the end of the round. tom at 100. martp at negative 100. however, this is the ph.d. round. this is 300 point questions here. >> i got a 200 point question. >> he's contesting the score. judge, is he right or wrong? >> right. martin you have been elevated to zero. tom you have 100. rush 300. i'm sorry about the mixup there. rush is up by 200 as we enter the 300 point round. thank you for catching ut. we begin with 100 second on the clock with this. if terry mcauliffe is elected as governor on tuesday, it will be the first time the white house has won a gubernatorial election in the old dominion, tom. >> since 1973. >> correct. 300 points for tom. if joe bodyen had been dropped from the ticket during the 2012 election, he would have become the first incumbent vice president. martin. >> rockefeller. >> nelson rockefeller the last

incumbent not to run with the president. 300 point question, with cory booker joining robert menen dez in the senate, new jersey this week became the second state to have a simultaneous non-white senate delegation. which was the first? >> illinois. >> incorrect. >> one guess here. call time. answer is hawaii. state of hawaii. 300 point question, when booker was sworn in on thursday. he became the fourth elected african senator in u.s. history, who was the first? >> enbrooke of massachusetts correct. instant bonus. what future presidential candidate coasted brooke in his 1978 campaign? >> paul song ssongas. >> who delivered a book to every congressional office entitled impeachable offense, removing barak barak from office?

-- barak obama from office? correct answer steve stockton of texas. no one since 1843 had been blocked from confirmation. >> mel block. >> he was blocked by the senate to be the head of the housing finance agency. >> that is correct. with that rush you finish with 300. martin 300. the winner tom davis, former congressman from virginia with 1,000 points. congratulations, tom, as our winner, we will tell you, bill wolf will tell you, here's what you have won. >> as our champion, you will have your name printed in exquisite sharpee on the coveted "up against the clock" gold cup. you get to show it off to friends, family and local school chin for exactly one woke. you will receive an appearance this coming week on msnbc "the cycle" airing weekdays 3:00 to

4:00 p.m. eastern time. you get to play if our bonus round for food's grand prize of a gift certificate to little pony the most authentic eating and drinking experience in new york's historic village and while there, get a tattoo or a piercing. back to you, steve. >> that is an exciting prize packet. congratulations former congressman tom davis with ve a little unfinished business for that $50 gift certificate, we have your jackpot question. it is this, starting this month, the united states capital dome will gain $60 million restoration project which will cover the dome and scaffolding two years. this will be the first overhaul of the capitol since who was president? >> a practice ham lenton. >> dwight eisenhower. now he knows. you do win the gold cup. it was a very impressive comeback in the third round, martin, rush, you will both

receive the home edition, i don't know if congressional rules allow you to accept that. we can sneak it to you if you want. thank you for playing, tom, you are if contention perhaps to play in our tournament of champions in march. there is the current leaderbird, this places you with the fourth highest of all time, stay tuned. we pay have you back in march for. that up next, we are back with the real show. as a business owner, i'm constantly putting out fires. so i deserve a small business credit card with amazing rewards. with the spark cash card from capital one, i get 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. i break my back around here. finally someone's recognizing me with unlimited rewards! meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? i need your timesheets, larry! that's the sound of car insurance companies these days.

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. >> george w.h. bush, the next election, the 1992 election couldn't have felt farther away. it was the first thing and may be the only thing on the mind of a notorious corner-cutting oertive named lee atwater. atwater had been the mastermind behind bush's 1988 victory. he had been awarded the

chairmanship of the national committee. he was thinking how to get his boss reelected. which is why in the fall of 1989, atwater was keeping a close eye on the state of arkansas. everyone in politics knew a democrat bill clinton wanted to run for president. no one took him that seriously. atwater looked at clinton and saw a threat. he saw a young intelligenic southerner, northern liberals led the democratic party to two state national drubbings, the guy can win back the voters at the core of the reagan-bush coalition, a guy under the right conditions could knock off j.w.h. bush in 1982. atwater became up with a plan, a governor's race, clinton would be running for re-election, he would use it as a springboard to a national company.

to atwater, this was the perfect opportunity to nip a huge problem in the bud. very quietly, he found a candidate of his own, tommy robinson was his name, he was a loose cannon, a sheriff known for off color and inflammatory remarks and controversial tactics. he won a seat in 1980 abruptly switched parties. he was going to run for governor of arkansas in 1990. lee atwater's plan, they later reported he met in the fall of 19 european with tommy robinson's team. he told them, we're going to take to himpy robinson and use him to throw everything we can think of at clinton. drugs, whatever works. we may or may not win, we will bust him up so bad, he won't be able to run again for years. within months, lee atwater fell ill. he was dead a year later. his plan never went into full effect. the arkansas republican primary of 1990, he lost to a far more

reserved, mild mannered candidate, who didn't throw any of the stuff at clinton that atwater wanted to throw at him. would history be any different if his candidate had won that primary, if his plan to stop bill clinton had been carried out? we will never know for sure. there is for the questioning atwater's foresight. he saw bill clinton as a threat and he was right t. strategy he devised was as low road as they come, the instengt behind it was smart. it's usually not that far to figure out who the strongest contenders are, who the biggest threats to your party are long before the next election. if you can deal with it then, neutralize the threat then, you will be doing yourself and your party a fuge u huge favor down the road, with i is what brings us to the biggest threat the party currently in power faces. his name is chris christie, he is the best position by far to win the white house in 2016,

consider the latest nbc news poll, of all the fames surveyed, exactly one republican with a positive rating is chris christie the threat to democrats is obvious, christie is on the ballot this year, three days from today in a blue state that voted for president obama by 17 points last 84, a blue state that last voted for a republican presidential candidate in 1988 that last elected a republican to the senate more than 40 years ago, there has been no effort by the national democrats in the new jersey race, no campaign swings by obaum. no visits by the clintons. they're not even trying. christie hasn't even had to break sweat here. he's going to win and win big. then he will get to go around the country telling republicans how electable he s. how he and only he is in position to win over blue state america and win back the white house. of course, there is a reason the white house hasn't made this a fight. probably because of this. >> the brought has been all over this. he deserves great credit.

i have been on the phone with him yesterday i said personally three times, he gave me his number at the white house, told me to call him if i needed anything. he absolutely means it. >> that's right. >> it's been very good working with the president and he and his administration have been coordinating with us great. it's wonderful. >> so those words uttered at the height of a crisis, essentially made chris christie the most valuable surrogate for obama's re-election campaign. a real concrete example of bipartisan help. he had so much time and energy searching for the first term. they're not eager to give that up. it's been more valuable to christie. his leadership during sandy lifted his poll numbers to stats fearic heights by maintaining an alliance with obama, it's kept his numbers there. sandy is what brought christie and obama together. it's kept the white house out of the new jersey election and has

christie on course to win a huge victory on tuesday. what remains to be seen is whether it will come back to haunt democrats three years from now. to talk about this, we have former virginia congressman and now reigning up against the clock champion republican tom davis. reporter dave weigel is with us and former texas congressman democrat martin frost. now also getting a more formal introduction following his up against the clock appearance, governor whitman, a resident new jersey politician on the panel, i wonder if you could talk about what in the estate of new jersey, we think of this as a blue state. you won there in two close elections in the 1990s, now, chris christie will probably win this by more than 20 points on tuesday, is this something where sandy, the alliance with barak obama everything that happened a year ago changed his appeal in that state? >> i think it was happening anyway. chris is a leader. he's taken on big issues. he's gone after improving

education, putting money in. he was doing things people wanted to see t. state had not been doing well between the previous two governors between he and i. he was starting to get the state back on track, making it feel good about itself. sandy just catapulted him into the national scene, as far as new jerseyens were concerned, while he took on the big issues, there will be people that push back, he was clearly a leader, people are anxious for a leader. >> has it surprised you where the real lack of, i don't believe after sandy that christie was going to lose this race. has it surprised you the lack of interest that national democrats have shown in this race? i think there was an e-mail, that might be the entire extent of it. has that surprised you if. >> not really. it's been evident for quite a while chris was going to be a very strong candidate, unfortunately, i have respect for barbara buono. she's in the senate.

she has some very gaping problems with her association with some of the labor and some of the positions that these taken that have put her in a place where nobody is supporting her. chris has been very smart about meeting with democratic mayors, doing things with democratic mares. they'll stand up. i had democratic mayors. he has been able to basically sweep the field. it would have been a losing proposition. the president didn't want to put his reputation on the line, going out there. having the white house when and get smacked from early on. >> so that's, i get that cal clax, too, if you are in the white house and the more you make a show of this the more you will be embarrassed if you can't win or come close to winning. do you think your party right now, governor whitman talks about in the state of fuge, the national lack of involvement. is your party setting itself up here, two, three years from now, you will look back and say, geeze, we built christie up a

little too much? >> i don't think so. of course, we were saved by the virginia race. we will win in virginia. the republicans have a weak candidate this election will be a draw. will you have a democrat win in virginia. it's off to the next election. >> in terms of the image that we show that nbc poll that shows christie, the only republican poll, nationally, it's like a two to one spread. when you look to all of the problems, we've talked so much about the political party in 2012, it seems to me like you nominate christie, superficially, you will solve all those problems? >> it will be an interesting race, remember, steve, since world war ii, there has been no 12-year presidency by a single party other than reagan, reagan, bush. every two years, it seems after every two terms, the presidency has gone to the next party. so this is going to be a contested election. we all know that. it doesn't make any difference quite frankly who the republican

candidate is. christie looks like he is the strongest possibility for them. the republicans will have some momentum going into 2016. we will have to nominate a strong candidate and work very hard. i think we can win. i don't think anything was to be gained by trying to rough up christy at this point. >> three days from now, we will have the election. as i say, he will probably win big. wednesday morning, we will hear three years to him co, christie and his people saying look what we did in this really blue state, republicans, there is your ticket to getting back to the white house, is that going to mean anything to republicans? >> i think it will. i thought it was interesting governor whitman referred twice, starting with christie being tough on them, continuing with bono being and in 2010 when christie was -- the national reputation was starting to develop, i remember going to tea party events in virginia and iowa and people loved christie because he was taking on the union. as soon as they elect him, he

can get back to that. if we had been around a similar table, we would have had this conversation about john pittsburgh kane, because john mccann was one of the most popular politicians in america, has kind of recovered some of that with the democrats fearful running against and there is a playbook and one thing we did mention, the game change sequel, democrats i think they didn't do it this time, it was hard to do it this time. christie didn't make too many lines. there is a little contents they're not screaming about yet, it's stuff in his record as u.s. attorney that can i can bloody him up with. not in a hurry to do it. that i have dirt on him to use. >> also, tom, there is what the republican process, once we saw this with mitt romney last year, what was required? what he had to go out there and say the whole self deportation thing is mitt romney trying to get back. >> that process i don't think has changed. is that going to change the way people see chris christie just to get a nomination?

>> christie is from new jersey, remember, i don't think romney could have been reelected governor of massachusetts. christie is re-elected. he understands those bobby traps and the landmines. but we're to the point, remember, obama needed christie in the closing days of that campaign when he was up there having a republican governor with his arm around him. i think for that reason alone, owe baum and his team, they couldn't have done anything except get their nose bloody. >> one other thing, don't forget, chris christie is very socially conservative. >> he is a pro-life. >> that's right. >> well, he's conservative enough. he's super, not super hard. >> if you think in a republican party. >> if you think in a republican party, abortion is this litmus test issue, can you speak of that as the role? when we talk about a blue state governor, chris christie's position is he's anti-abortion. we said in 1996, you were sort of the in the mix for the vp

thing. are you pro choice. that made you a non-starter with a wing with the republican party. >> that doesn't exist. >> that particular one doesn't. they still don't, the very hard right conservatives, the purist conservatives, he has i think about the highest negative numbers. that's where they are, the very hard right conservatives, again, these two elections come out the way it looks as if they're going to and the republicans lose virginia, which tra terribly does not elect a governor, the same party of the sitting president and we lose the demographics of women and minorities and chris christie wins in new jersey and he picks up women and minorities, particularly hispanics and black, then it's going to at least be pretty clear to people if you want to win obvious a national scale, you've got to appeal to more than just the very narrow base. >> the hard leaners in the republican party don't care about that. they don't care. there is going to be a civil war tore the nomination. he's not going to walk into the

nomination. he may ultimately be the nominee. he has to overcome a lot. very interesting on gay rights recently, a gay marriage, he initially said, oh, no, no, he doesn't want it to happen. then he got out of the way and let it happen. >> he got out of the way and let it happen. i have a feeling social conservatives will remember that. >> he will try to blame it on the court, what can i do? >> the crazy liberal course. we will go from this northern state poised to let the republican. we will go south to a traditionally red state. now more of a swing state. that's ahead. nches? 24/7. i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. .

lenol®.

>> the virtue of political extremism is that once you get people all torn up and upset, steam coming out of their ears,

they will show up and vote. will you care as much as they do and show up and vote? >> that was bill clinton rallying the troops for terry mcauliffe to be on track to be elected three days from now. he has energized the far right. this turned off women and swing voters in the process, for the first time in 40 years, virginians are poised to elect a government as the president they can sweep all three offices on tuesday. lt. gov. and attorney general to add to the two u.s. senate seats they already control. if that happens, it will mark the first time since 1969 the dying days when segregation has led the democratic party. the democrats have held all five offices at once. how are they making all of this party history? with an uninspiring candidate at the top of the ticket. they described mcauliffe as quote the democrat democrats have been dying to vote against.

he's the consummate washington insider, a millionaire bungler crushed in the primary. former congressman tom davis, a republican expressed his exaspiration with his party. he said this should have been a slam dunk, virginia almost always votes against the president's party. all we needed was a mammal up there. fortunately, we happen to have former congress tom davis and mammal at the table today. congressman, can you tell us, what has happened to your party and how is your party in virginia interpreting and processing what it has seen play out? >> first of all, we have gone to a congressional process. it brings out the most conservative candidates. you have a conservative ticket. republicans have become the issue. traditionally in mid-term elections, it's the president's party. it sends a message to washington. it appears this election is all about the republican candidate who is upsidedown, his negatives

for hire. >> let's illustrate it a little bit. first of all, look at the gender gap that exists. i have not seen a race horse this stark. this is the washington post poll 45-44 among men. among women a 24-point lead for terry mcauliffe among women. here is a quote. one of the interviews from that poll that sort of illustrates where that's coming from, a 64-year-old female voter from virginia saying i am not a fan of terry mcauliffe. i think he's a light weight, if he's the only democrat, he gets my vote the devil himself would be better on women's issues than ken cuccinelli. tom, i guess, this to me seems in virginia the ultimate test of what the tea party can do in a general election in a swing state. terry mcauliffe is a weak democratic candidate this is an off year election. it should favor the republican. all these conditionsist that should make this a winnable race for republicans. like you say, the fact that cuccinelli will lose this, is

there any sign, are you hearing any seen from the republicans of rethinking their strategy, rethinking that convention and more broadly rethinking the leaning on the pea party? >> i think, lock, the party has become estranged from the business base, you have the lt. gov. not endorsing cuccinelli. a number of high profile republicans not supporting the ticket at this point. there is a lot of rethinking. remember the party is controlled by the nomination process which happens to be convention at this point. a very conservative central committee. so for all of this i think it will take a few years to sort out. this is not going to sort out overnight, look, the election is not over. you had about five polls with different turnout models. this is all about turnout. the real question is what will happen in the legislature, a an appreciable number of seats. they'll hold it. chris christie in new jersey, winning in a blue state, virginia appears to be in per im. so it says something about the party? steve, the republicans in virginia are very slow learners.

a few years ago, they didn't want tom davis to be their candidate for the united states senate and so they refused to have a primary which tom probably would have won and they had their convention and produced a candidate who couldn't win. so what do they do? a few years later, the elephant doesn't forget. the elephant doesn't learn anything. mcauliffe has won a masterful campaign. he absolutely hammered early on cuccinelli on women's issues, in the washington, d.c., suburban market. never left him off the map. he has run a text b.c. campaign. >> i have to peck up on that point we think of virginia tra terribly. how do you win as a democrat? you got to sway the rural voters, guns, maybe cultural issues. the terry mcauliffe speaks to the steam out of the 2012

election the electorate in virginia and fascially is changing. it's a lot more liberal on cultural issues now, terry mcauliffe said, hey, don't worry, i'm not too liberal this guy is too conservative. that's resonating. >> republicans are optimistic what they can do for him, forgetting they won the state. in north virginia on monday, part of the speech was the war on coal. who in northern virginia care or thinks there is a war on coal does not prefer clone air. you look at where the vote is shifting. it's fun to compare a map, not fun, you know where i'm coming from. >> i think it's fun. >> how dralts when they would lose virginia, 20 years ago, they would take southwest virginia. they now win the state and get blown away there. it doesn't matter. cases come up that produced, that convention process produced

probably the worst candidate e.w. jackson, won the speech and the nomination. >> lt. gov.. >> so they have to learn something from that. there is always a tendency to spin. they will probably trade libertarians for spoiling the vote. >> i heard that one. the ties to the businessman and the scheme with governor mcdonald. in the republican convention in virginia of course gave us oliver north 20 years ago. there is another race on tuesday, this name probably won't mean anything to folks out there. but in alabama, there is a special election the republican primary and a special election in a very republican district to replace a member of congress who just left. so these are the two candidates. dean young and bradley byrne. this is the test after the republican establish. versus the tea party win. bradley byrne is involved in the republican paemplt dean wrung the unabashed tea party candidate. there are national sort of

republican groups that have from both sides that have poured into this race now in the last week. this is a test, governor whitman, i think of where -- if anything has changed in your party nationally and especially among the base of the party in the wake of the shutdown, the disaster that was for republicans. >> i think as you defined the base today, it probably hasn't changed much. the base, we are looking at a small pluerality of people. the average turnout of primaries in this country is 10%. so by definition, you leave it to the most partisan who tend to be people who have single issues. they tend to be far left or far right. >> thatt really the base problem here is trying to get people to understand a vote. you got to start voting in primaries. vote in these elections. right now, there are so many republicans. the fastest growing demographic on registration is the independent. not republican, not democrat. both parties are losing. republicans are losing more than democrats. poem are saying attacks on both your housings. i suspect in this race, most

ener joidz people will be the tea party people. >> if that happens, we will reenforce. >> the republican base in the south is the crazy rank. this is a southern state. of course the tea party candidate is going to run strong. that's their base in those states. now, in other states, you can argue that the establish. might be able to mount a campaign against the tea party candidate. it's awfully hard in a southern state. >> so this is one to watch. we have virginia. we will have new jersey, here at new york city, this is one to watch, quickly. >> it's an urban district a southern district. an urban district. modern establish. candidate before him, sonny calahan before him jack edwards. look. it's in the south. so it gives the tea party an advantage. >> folks, keep an eye on this tuesday night. this is a test of where the republican party is post-shutdown. anyway, a ken cuccinelli campaign event is causing pobs for another candidate in another state who has designs on a fascial office. we will tell you who that is after this. . but isn't it time to turn the page on your cup of joe?

. >> our friends prompted another tv host to do his own digging. >> oh, oh, just because he and wikipedia use the same words, rand paul is a imageerist. you don't know that. maybe rand paul wrote the wikipedia entry? i mean, for pete's sake, i don't know what else they do in the senate and how dare, rachel maddow, you besmerch this man's great name, rand paul is not a prajerrist. he is the junior united states senator for kentucky, a member of the republican party, a graduate of the duke university school of medicine, paul began practicing ophthalmology in bowling green, couple, so show a little bit of respect rachel maddow, who the hell do you think you are? an american television host,

political commentator and author? >> we are going to talk about the long storied political plagerism. we will try to avoid using wikiped why. so stay with us. ak it, break it. (dad) just like i showed you. dad, you didn't show me, you showed him. . ian sausage. and everybody loved it. and you're definitely proud of that. johnsonville. served with pride since 1945.

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the end of trial and error has arrived. try a free sample at eucerinus.com. . >> on monday senator rand paul campaigned at jerry falwell's university in lynchburg in a red western part of the state. it's common practice for a national known figure to drop in an help a candidate out in the waning days of the campaign. one person rand paul didn't help at that cuccinelli event was himself. the tea party senator lifted 12 lines directly from wikipedia. >> that day rachel maddow reported paul's speech was word-for-word from gattika. why, you ask? something about genetic testing. >> if the movie gattaca, in the not too distant future, it's the

primary role. >> the weird thing about that lean from senator paul's speech today in the into the too distant futures eugenics. >> that line almost appears verbatim in the entry on gattaca, dna plays the primary role in determining social class. >> on wednesday, paul denied any allegations of plagiarism. >> well, we borrowed the plot lines from gattaca the movie. i gave credit to the people that wrote the movie. nothing i said was not given attribution to where it came from. i talked about a movie "gattaca." i gave every bit of credit where that plot line came from. >> as the week went on, he found out he used pages from another

movie "stand and deliver." they found plagiarism in speeches by paul, one at howard university which he appeared to take passages of the magazine of a social conservative group. by thursday the adviser told politico quote going forward paul will be more cautious in presenting and attributeing sources. so, i have to say we have some interesting examples from the past. when you think of political plagiarism, i think of joe bind, 1987, sort of appropriatiating this very inspoiring story of how government sort of helped lift him and his family up. you almost watch that and say i know why somebody would imageerize. that it's a good speech. now a guy that plajerrizes on "gattacca" and "stand and deliver." what's the fallout for rand paul? >> i think it helps him, it came first from this network. can you go into a rub rally and mention you were attacked by rachel maddow.

they will applaud. i can see somebody weaponizing it later on, but one sample of how angry, rand paul will speak before voting on tuesday. we need to wait and see, but because this was not a particular author, because the wikipedia things were high minded writers on the internet, i don't think the basis is going to get angry at him. the problem with him, it's not a problem, he's not a canned speech guy. he likes to rip on things, put what he has learned into, if you look at his filibuster, for example, he likes to put in what he just read. >> cut and paste. >> he does not repeat the same thing len. if he runs for another office, it will bite him, he loves to rip. >> it's more than that, though. this is not ready for prime time stuff. this indicates poor staff work. if he has to be a national candidate, he has to have good

staff and be very careful. if he uses something from someone else, he nodes to properly attribute it. he's not ready for prime time. >> this was my favorite one of what we came up with. this was an idaho republican primary in 2010, if tea party for congress, you had this candidate vaughan ward who was running, this was his announce. speech. it was sim laer to somebody else's speech. you will see in a second. >> we stand on the crossroads of history. >> as we stand on the crossroads of history. >> we can make the right choices and meet the challenges that face us. >> i know we can meet the right choices, and meet the challenges before us. >> if you feel the same urgency i do and the position i do. >> if you feel the same passion and urgency i do. >> i have no doubt. >> i have no doubt. >> the people will rise up in november. >> that our voices will be heard in november. >> o'love this one, this is the

tea party candidate appropriatiateing barak obama's speech of his own, incredibly sloppy. he had different paragraphs lifted from a pennsylvania republican congressman in that same speech. he ended up losing the primary seat. but you guys have been in politics. how easy is it for this stuff to happen? >> first of all, there is a difference between taking an entire speech of most of a speech and a line or two from a wikipedia, that is ubiquetous. everybody knows everybody gets in there, you say wikipedia. you don't know who wrote that. i may not agree on rand paul, this one i think he is being overly attacked. it does speak to the speech writers. he doesn't write all the speeches t. speech writers have to be more careful. the time he gets in trouble is in denying and defending. we made a mistake. >> i assume you have been handed speeches for the house floor.

does it go through your head, geeze, am i sure this is original material? have you talked to your staff? >> we have to give so many speeches, sometimes, five, six, seven in a day t. candidate doesn't have to for rand palm, this is a kind of a warning shot. i don't think there is any harm in this. after a movie review. but at the end of the day, he's going to be under stricter scrutiny. he has to up his game there it go es to, people start checking your bio, some candidates have been disqualified because they claimed to have served in vietnam when they didn't, i'm not saying that rand paul has done anything like that. then it encourages reporters to start digging for the everything he's ever put in print to see if it's true. >> the other thing, too, you think, earlier this year, remember, dave, there was a controversy with rand palm, the southern avenger. paul wouldn't just deal with it and disassociate himself. he kept him -- it turned into a much bigger story as well. >> he is a very proud guy.

he does, i'm using this in defense of him. he's an interesting member of the senate. it's interesting, he plows through kind of quickly. he tries to gain expertise pretty fast. if we talk about him as a standard bearer of libertarianism, that mows you down. when the press is interested in you. they are referring to the compounding factor. joe bodyen in '87, he credits and look back into his college records. >> that itself the kind of thing, palm, i think paul is a really good libertarian member of the senate. but once at the presidential level, i don't know how he swoivs. >> if there are residuals for the writers of the movie "gattacca" they owe rand paul a cut. two if you twists this week in the saga of immigration reform. we will tell you if it's actually kwloeser to happening now. that's next.

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>> after the 2012 election, mitt romney took 27 percent of the latino vote. in a changing america, you need to reach out beyond the party's older, wider and more male base. it briefly became clear in the wake of that election, florida senator morocco marco rubio became the face of bipartisan immigration reform. they helped put a bill through this past june. >> that bill has languished in the house since then, rubio has gotten quieter and quieter until this week they told a conservative site he is no longer pushing his own bill the house should instead pass a much less peacemeal reforms. it sounded like the official demise of congressional reform. then this happened, three house republicans signed on this week as co-sponsors in a deal that

mirrors the blue print. it's an open question, more house republicans need to face down the interparty pressure and put tear name on a democrat ig plan. it may not be enough if house refuses to put the bill up for a vote. so try to figure out where we stand here. martin, what is the status right now of immigration reform in getting it through any time in the near future? >> immigration reform is the meanest, toughest issue congress has to deal w. it makes social security reform look like a walk in the park. it is hard, hard to pass. i'm skeptical we can get anything done. >> whatmatics it so hard? is it as simple as the republican base we keep talking about has its heels in this and republican lawmakers are scared with the challenge that comes with it? >> i think both side, remember, 2002, the bush administration sent a bill up to the house, to the hill. you had a senate version pass, a house verse pass.

they never appointed the conference committee because it was 2002, each side wanted to use it against each other, this issue, in that election. real people get hurt. this is what has to stop. we have to stop thinking about not politics but policy. >> we see the story, also, later in the bushed a penstration, the story was there was a real bipartisan push. it was sort of the beginnings of the tea party in hindsight. >> i was there in 2006 and '7. we had passed a bill out of each house, there was no way to reconcile it. look the democrats held off on a discharge petition. now they're putting it forward, republicans haven't been able to come up with a product. you are finding one republican, another republican, you will have a few from these swing districts. republican moderates are put out, cut out to dry, left out there on this government shutdown. they've got to do some making -- >> what is behind? so we have three republicans who sign on with the democratic plan, which is like the senate

plan. how do we read this? is this just republicans who want to tell their local newspaper, see, yeah, i put my name on it or these are republicans that will eventually sign a discharge thing or something like that? how meaningful is this? >> they have enough of a hispanic vote. they are seen as joining a republican effort to stop this bill, in california, there is all the runoff primary, so he has ungrateful faith unless he gets democratic votes. i don't see republicans worrying about them starting a trend. you saw lindsey graham come up this week, demand more benghazi interviews. he nodes to have something he is going tooth and claw on while he's working on something that will make the administration look good. >> he calls for impeachment? >> don't forgive we went down this road. i was in congress in the 1980s, within we passed simpson and mazzoli. >> in '86 reform. >> it was a big flop.

we tried to legislate on this subject. we had a hard time getting anything passed. we ultimately got it passed. it was a problem. if i was still in congress, i'd be for immigration reform. i think it's the right thing to do. i think there is a lot of resistance. >> this is marco rubio. let's listen to what he explained at the start of this week. >> i also don't think it's realistic to believe the house will take up and pass whatever the senates are demanding. i think there are many things on immigration we should move on, i think we should move on those and make progress. there are a handful we have for the consensus in this country yet. they may have to be delayed to reach a consensus on how to approach him. >> if the house does nothing on this thing, it will come back to haunt them in the mid-terms. right now the mid-terms are the oyster, you are looking at picking up senate seats. if the house becomes the issue,

you will wake with the hispanic vote and immigrant votes in general. the republicans at least have to pete. >> that i don't have to get a loss, but that they have to pass a product. >> that's why the rubio signifi. marco rubio doesn't feel safe being associated -- like he sort of took a step out there at the end of the last election, like this is where the party wants to go now, it's seen the error of its ways. now you can see the political calculations. i'm going to lead them there. he's retreating a year later. that says to me the republican party is nowhere -- is not at all different now than it was preelection 2012. >> it's not a good sign, i agree, but on the other hand, he's a pragmatist. he's say, look, we can get some things done and at least move this forward a little bit. better than nothing. >> rubio is a young, still inexperienced united states senator. and there have been a lot of fits and stars during his career so far. this is a guy who hasn't quite figured it out.

>> today this idea of the piecemeal solution, also is there any -- would democrats be interested in that at all at this point? or is it we want a comprehensive plan or nothing at this point? >> they're not interested in piecemeal. when conservatives who want this bill talk about rubio, they try to say he was going for a nuance, he was trying to say that the house needs to move first. i asked him on tuesday. he said, look, my position on the house needs to move first. you can't have the senate pass a bunch of bills. you need to see what comes out of the house first. until it is proven completely i think what they need to see is that paul ryan bails on this. one of the hopes they still maintain is paul ryan who who maybe wants to run for president, who wants to balance the budget at some point, still wants an immigration bill serious enough to do that. they're not going to piecemeal yet. >> members of congress only want to vote once on this subject. it has to be -- >> putting out fires. the sparkd from capital one,

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. time to find out what our guests know now they didn't know

when the week began. governor, we'll start with you. >> i didn't realize mitt romney had quite the sense of humor he did. all the nicknames he gave his vice presidential candidates was an eye opener. >> i don't think chris christie would appreciate it. congressman frost. >> i want tom davis on my trivia team, not against him. when we teamed up a couple years ago we won a contest in washington. >> and the reigning champion, congressman? >> there's a series of elections, you know of course about new jersey and virginia, talked about the alabama special. there's a state senate election in washington state that will determine control of the state senate, not partisan control but operational control out there. everybody's going to look for trends about who the winners and losers are and everybody will have bragging rights after tuesday, both parties. >> dave. >> the next republican move against bom care will be another stab at the naf gaye or thes. at the end of the week, republicans were saying we need to investigate where these will be. republicans will keep

maneuvering for ways to make implementation of obama care hard. >> and i know tom davis, i am in awe because i have to tell you upstairs we did a little betting odds, rush holt was the big favorite and you defeated him. congratulations. thanks for playing and being good sports. thanks to governor christie todd whitman and the rest of you. appreciate you getting up this morning. thanks for joining us for "up." tomorrow, they call him the jon stewart of egypt. what he tells us about u.s./egypt relations and a free society. up next is melissa harris-perry, a all-out assault on women from texas to oklahoma to wisconsin whose bodies continue to be subject to control by legislation. some pockets of the republican party, signs of a backlash. that and the latest on the fact and fiction when it comes to obama care. that's next. i love having a free checked bag

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responsibility. what's your policy? this morning, my question -- what are the women of texas going to do now? and we'll answer calls about obama care. plus the connection between slavery and the ivy league. but first why we all stop whatever else we are doing when the shooting happens in an airport. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. today new details are emerging about yesterday's shooting at los angeles international airport that left one transportation security administration agent dead and seven others wounded including the shooter. this video from tmz shows the chaotic scene inside the airport as the shooting was happening. the alleged gunman