ter decisions. i don't like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. thanks for joining us. get ready to disrupt your afternoon as we talk about the week that was. a tax on attorney general holder. pushback against the gop caucus of no. and katrina, really? if they want to go there, let's go. >> there are moments in a presidency where everything is different afterward and i believe this is that moment. for us, it was hurricane katrina. >> even "the new york times" is calling this obama's katrina which is great for george w. bush. >> if you bring it up at the white house, they reject that. expletives start flying around. >> we hate to say we told you so but we look like geniuses now.

>> what is the republican plan? be careful. >> we have to concentrate, by the way, not on who we are against but what we're fighting for. >> i thought the republicans believed in the free enterprise system. >> it lets people keep the plans they like. >> the gentleman needs to read the bill. doesn't say that the insurance companies must sell the policies. >> we look like geniuses now. all right. disrupters, we are going to get to it. we have a false narrative to pull apart. we saw more angst about the rollout of the affordable care act and apology from the president and republicans and democrats expressing outrage and frustration putting forward proposals to reinstate the junk insurance plans that allowed companies to bilk millions out of americans and then republicans decided this was their moment to go in for the

kill. and with a false new talking point that for once had former bush officials eager to look backwards -- >> there are moments in a presidency where everything is different. afterward. and i believe this is that moment. for us, it was hurricane katrina. i believe this is a moment after which everything will be different for the president. >> can i throw this last thought in here? the right warned about obama care. >> right. >> there was no -- katrina warning whatsoever. >> president bush did tell them to evacuate. >> yeah. >> all right. >> you know, this is one of the reasons i like having a show because i really wanted to talk about this one. the hosts -- could leave the hosts speechless and david frum said president bush did not design and enact herman cain. i'm sorry to tell you that some democrats jumped on the false equivalency making the

comparison of the rocky rollout of a law that ensures millions of americans access to affordable health care to a storm that left billions of dollars of approximate damage, homes lives and dethe american city left to fend for itself. remember the haunting pictures of fellow americans without water stranded on roof tops begging for help literally dying in front of our eyes? bush was able to get food in to iraq on the day we invaded but not water into an american city for days. and then the image of george w. bush sered in our collective memory as he viewed the wreckage aboard air force one miles and miles above the devastation. oh, it was a heck of a time. it is not a valid comparison. the gop is working overtime to take away health insurance. now available to the tens of millions of americans who used to rely on emergency rooms and

it is the republican governor of the state of louisiana that is denying some of the very same people and hundreds of thousands of more in new orleans and the rest of the state access to health care that could literally change their lives. several other governors have followed the governor rejecting the expanding medicaid just for their own political interests. i'm joined by colleague and the host of the melissa harris perry show and howard dean. thanks to you both. >> absolutely. >> okay. so, melissa, i don't have to say much. katrina? >> yeah. yes. so, i mean, as you know, folks watch the show know, i live in new orleans. we are still -- there is one katrina. ours. and there is -- katrina is not a metaphor. it's a reality, happened to real people and continues to happen to us. >> that's right. >> here's where the comparison is apt. and i think you know about the

psychological notion of projection. basically what we see here is a massive projection. what is apt about that metaphor is that the response on the right to the affordable care act is like the presidential response of george w. bush to hurricane katrina. >> good point. >> think about what katrina was. it's an actual thing that happens but the disaster is caused bay structural failure of the federal levees. a failure and then have the disproportionate impact on poor people, the elderly and people of color. >> absolutely. >> same thing is happening here. the federal government which has power and capacity to create a new structural situation so that poor people, the elderly and people of color can have health care, they are refusing to extend that. they're doing the same thing that the bush administration did. refusing to extend what is necessary in order to make it happen. so i have a critique of the president in terms of willingness to back down from

what i think is the important legislation of aca but the notion that obama care is katrina rather than their response being the same as it was is the problem. >> governor dean, i think melissa makes such an important point. what strikes sme where is -- they're having political outrage. where's the moral outrage? more people should be outraged rather than repeating this false equivalency of katrina versus obama care. >> well, that's the real disappointment with me. i expect the right wing propaganda machine low life as they are to talk like. they have been for ages. it's what got them in ages talking like this about women and immigrants and so on and so forth. the thing that shocks me is repeated by the anchor of this network, of nbc, and it would be on the front page of "the new york times." that is the -- i mean, you expect the republicans not to have any respect for anything, including life although they claim they do. i don't expect the anchor of nbc

evening news and "the new york times" on the front page to make any -- it is the usual mainstream media some people say -- >> i know you love that the most. >> i was shocked by the cravenness of the mainstream media to even give this any air time whatsoever. 3,000 people died in hurricane katrina. nobody died because of the website screwed up. >> they might actually live. a longer life than ever before possible. >> right. >> you know, the other thing that strikes me about this, melissa, is bush never apologized. >> hello. >> president obama stood up and said, okay. it's messed up. it's my fault. he gave cover to the democrats in congress. he said, it's my job to get it fixed. i did not hear that from mr. bush. >> you still don't. if you back up to that notion of something happens in a presidency and never the same after, and then to hear bush

officials say and that was katrina, i just want to raise my hand and be like, first of all, 9/11 happened on your watch. and do you feel like that was not your moment? when everything was different. you lied to the american public and took us into a war in iraq about weapons of mass destruction which do not exist. do you not feel like everything was different after that? so this is back to that moment and the decision points autobiography where president bush says the worst thing that happened in his presidency is declared a racist by kanye west. both suggesting he has the emotional range of taylor swift and also that rather than sort of recognizing the issue that the worst thing that happened was 9/11. >> i like taylor swift. >> was katrina and falsely leading the american people in. the still thing they still care about was approval ratings and talking about their own popularity. not the american people. >> that's right. governor dean, the thing that really also -- well, my colleague melissa said it this

morning. i'll say it. i'm pissed about is governors rejecting the medicaid money and you know as a former governor talk about high crimes and misdemeanors. i mean, that is litd rally playing politics. a number of these states, they said months ago their goal was to not patient in the exchanges to try to put more pressure on the exchange so that it would be a negative experience and the medicaid expansion, that's just free money to help poor people. >> they're putting their party above their people in the states. some of them aren't. to give the governor of arizona credit and john kasich in ohio credit. 20 years we expanded medicaid and universal health care for kids under 18 in vermont since. thises a way to get health care

to people who need it. not only the republican governors refusing to accept money from the federal government throwing the poor people under the bus which we expect, they're throwing the hospitals under the bus because uncompensated care went away for the hospitals that used to see poor people without money and insurance and assumed that people take the expansions so it's not just the poor people that can't pay. the emergency rooms are still flooded and now the hospitals and their insurance premiums go up as a result of what the republicans are doing. it's stunning. >> right. >> how stubborn they are. how foolish they are and how poorly they serve their elect rat. >> melissa, so frustrated this week watching how this unfolded. i don't think the president should have been in the president of having to apologize. i think that i wanted the democrats to just stay behind him and let's just get this dealt with and fixed. >> yep. >> but i wanted to remind us why we got here. how we got here. going back to the crash, read

something that we were told to tpm about health insurance call. this is not what i was going to talk about. this is an insurance company that is using the chaos to try to essentially bilk her out of more money. she talked about this call and basically she -- it says she started to basically tell me how bad the exchanges are and only for the very sick people. she said, have you had cancer? a heart attack? you or your husband? i said, no. she said, well, good, because if you said yes i would have had to recommend the exchanges. that's what i -- i feel like they're getting away with murder on both sides of this equation. >> in fact, are. actual murder. actually at this point now because of the extension will not only be able to continue to cancel the people that they said they would cancel, no requirement to reinstate and then the second, they can sell new policies, right? new policy that is are the horrible policies the people on

the individual market and so what we know is that people's costs explode, that when they get ill, they have very little coverage and look. i spoke to gracely boggs, the 98-year-old activist today at the end of the show and asked her in the hallway, how do you feel about the obama administration right now and about president obama. she said, that's the wrong question. everybody keeps asking, what can president obama do for me? is he doing a good job for me? the question is what are we doing to make it possible to govern in our own interests? and again, when you look at a bobby jindal in louisiana, my neighbors, poor people who need health care, who need medicaid, who are telling bobby jindal, go, bobby, go, resist the president. resist the president? this is health care for you! >> you know, final point to you, governor dean. i mean, just imagine, could you possibly imagine when you were governor not taking the medicaid money and then literally having to face your constituents and

say, i don't want barack obama to succeed? i mean, as a governor, i can't imagine. >> i think -- these guys are going to pay an enormous price. i can see the attack already. sold out his own people to be president. and then you will have poor people on the screen who could have used health care and didn't get it. they're foolish. what they're trying to do is terrified of the tea party. they're trying to appease the tea party. and they're so far out of the mainstream. they don't know they're out of the mainstream. i think that we ought to keep the focus on making this work. i wasn't a big supporter of obama care. i thought we should have done it differently. >> single payer. >> it will work other places and i think our job as americans is to make this thing work and i think it can. >> i completely agree with you and remind us when the financial crash happened, why a lot of people were going bankrupt because of the health care costs

and those were people who had insurance so talking about our interests, this is in our interests. thank you so much, governor dean and melissa harris-perry for joining me. >> thank you. >> of course, you can catch melissa's show every weekend morning. go nerd land. coming up, reframing the conversation about the gop party of no. i don't want you to be fooled. they have still got real troubles. later, what is it about the president that could be the new political cool? ♪ ♪ you get your coffee here. you get your hair cut here. you find that certain thing you were looking for here, but actually you get so much more. when you shop at these small local businesses, you support all the things that make your community great. the money you spend here, stays here. in this place you call your neighborhood. small business saturday

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no doubt about it. wasn't a great week for the democrats but i don't want you to be fooled into thinking things are sunshine and rainbows

for the gop. they're on the attack to distract from their troubles running far deeper at their point. turn over the stone and here's what you'd find. the 2016 circular firing squad already started. the party continues to fight about who's more conservative than whom. boehner and the just say no caucus refuse to bring bills to the floor. why? they know they'll pass with republican support. that's the strategy of the old guard trying to control the new guard. republicans have basically learned nothing from that 2012 autopsy report. does that sound like a winning playbook to you? i didn't think so, either. joining me now is two guests. i want to begin, guys, with a preview of the 2016 republican primary battle already under way here in 2013. here were some of the top contenders throwing punches over last several days. take a look. >> i think the party in general is more conservative.

i think there's room for moderates in the party. i think it will be more difficult, states like iowa are very conservative, south carolina is very conservative. >> listen. we're all different states. it is a conservative in new jersey a conservative the rest of the country. >> for the labels, that's for people in washington, d.c. but the people in america aren't interested and given the approval ratings in washington they have shown that. >> now, rich, i want to start with you because one of the things i find interesting about this is that you have got a lot of folks out there making the rounds. but congress and washington are at all-time lows so if you're a republican looking at running for office in 2016, you have got kind of an extra mark against you versus the governors who where the talk is where things are really happening. same time criticizing each other and widening the fractures is not going to make it easy for somebody to win the nomination.

>> well, it's never easy for somebody to win the nomination, karen. you know, in 2007, people were saying essentially what they're saying now, if hillary clinton gets into this, boy, the nomination is hers. funny thing happened on the way to the capitol. you have to have a really, really good political hubbell telescope to try to look that far down the road but one of the things we have talked about over the years is senators tend to be at the top of the list of washington-based people because we know these people. we see them, talk to them. governs no, we don't know so well and probably governors on both sides that are out there that haven't just popped their heads up yet and if i had to bet it will be two governors against each other in the finals in 2016. >> you know, molly, i want to switch to kind of what's actually happening in the house with boehner and the just say no caucus. polls and we know there's a great deal of support for these

things nationally. you know, leader pelosi on this program last week and her feeling is -- >> boehner but pelosi is leader pelosi. just want to make that point. >> all right. so her point was that if you put the bill on the floor, the immigration bill from the senate on the floor, they would actually pass because there are republicans who are in districts where it's okay to support these things and yet the sort of control of the party says that's not our message so we can't let that happen. >> well, i mean, i'll stick up for speaker boehner a little bit here. that's his prerogative as peeker of the house. there's bills that passed the house and harry reid is not take to the floor of the senate and bill that is speaker boehner and or the majority of the republicans in the house and the republicans control think are bad policies so even if the majority of democrats and a few democrats support them and

enable them to pass, you know, again it's his prerogative not to let that happen. now, is that good for them political politically? that's another question. i think particularly on things like immigration, there is potential for political damage to the party as a whole if not to individual members of congress. but, you know, we don't live in a pure democracy. everything is not a referendum. a popular vote of the american people. there are thing that is are popular with a majority of americans you probably wouldn't support, as well. >> rich, here's the thing that strikes me about this. when i look at the polling, you know, in terms of level of support, we are talking about immigration, support with a path to citizenship, the numbers are there. and so when you then hear speaker boehner and other leaders in the republican party saying that it's -- you know i'll never not call him speaker boehner from now on, so thank you for that, rich. essentially, you've got some concerns at the top of the party about sort of the, you know, not upsetting the tea party people.

we might go through the shutdown thing again in january. >> that's exactly right. i think i said on this very program, remember we had congresswoman sanchez on four or five months ago and i said then and i believe it to be the case, now with enda, as well, getting past, molly, getting past the most of the filing deadlines, next spring and summer, that these two issues may well come to the floor so that the speaker doesn't have to put republicans in danger of being primaried but once the filing deadlines are closed, they're freer to bringing the things to the floor but just quickly, you showed a quinnipiac poll. another part of that is asking who do you trust more on these four issues. health care, economics, the economy, immigration and the budget. and in all four of those, the question was, the president or republicans in congress. all four of those they were substantially tied within one point one way or the other so the fact is that we are headed

down a path both from the white house and from capitol hill where people are completely losing trust in the organizations of the government. we've got to get that fixed. >> molly, last question to you. to that point, you know, i mean, i get the politics of waiting until after filing deadlines but if you're an american citizen out there looking at washington and you are seeing, you know, this kind of dance going on and then instead of thinking about when's good for me you're thinking about what's good for you and your filing deadlines, i mean, that is part -- i do think that the polls have shown that the republicans are taking a big hit for that and while it's true that the president has taken some hits, it is not the case that the republicans have gotten lift out of that fact. right? basically just dragging everybody down but they're quite low. >> well, but i think you make a good point is that democrats are not necessarily benefiting from this chaos engulfing the republican party. for a while they were. after the shutdown, in particular.

people did look at what was going on with republicans and sort of rally to the side of the democrats. now with what's happened with obama care, democrats have lost that advantage. president obama doesn't need that advantage. he is a lame duck. he is not running again. he doesn't need a high approval rating. history will judge him, not the voters but the democrats running in 2014 whether they're running for senate or for governor or for congress trying that very uphill battle to retake the majority, they're not benefiting from what's happening on the other side. >> let me quote from msnbc.com from this morning. jessica taylor's piece saying here's why 39 democrats broke with the white house in voting for the legislation on health care. politics, she said. >> of course. i don't think that's good for anybody but i do think if the website gets fixed and we go through another shutdown, you know in january, i think that everything will flip. to we have a long time to be talking about this to election day. thank you, molly and rich.

>> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, new face of american life. does it make want to make tea partiers gag? a team are attacking a reagan appointee and we'll tell you about the so-called high crimes. welcome back. how is everything? there's nothing like being your own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order. good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen. [ male announcer ] introducing fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. became big business overnight? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪

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remember that you can disrupt the conversation all week long on our facebook page or tweet us at msnbc disrupt. i want you to weigh in about the comparison calling president obama's katrina moment. and when we come back, it's a fact. conservatives want to impeach a reagan appointee fighting for voting rights and why are conservatives so afraid of the obamas? [ male announcer ] mmmm.

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all right. it's a fact that 20 house republicans have introduced articles of impeachment against the nation's highest law enforcement official. a man originally appointed by none other than ronald reagan and i'm talking about attorney general eric holder. the move is being led by a congressman pete olson of texas who alleges mr. holder's behavior clearly falls under high crimes and misdemeanors. offenses that the u.s. constitution explicitly defines as grounds for removal of a senate-confirmed cabinet official through impeachment. the time is now for the house of representatives to act with the authority vested in us by the constitution and remove attorney general eric holder from office. high crimes and misdemeanors? let's take a look at the charges. number one, they say that holder refused to comply with the subpoena of documents for operation fast and furious. it is a fact that doj provided

almost 8,000 pages of material. there have been seven hearings with attorney general holder. additional congressional interviews with many others throughout the department involved in the case. it is also a fact that the attorney general invoked executive privilege relating to some of the documents that have been requested which is something that reagan did three times, george w. bush did six times and finally it is a fact that those same guidelines were most recently invoked by a former bush appointee. number two, they say holder is refusing to prosecute irs officials involved in targeting conservative political groups. you remember that one? well, it's a fact that it wasn't a scandal at all. we now know that the irs targeted progressive groups as well as conservative groups to ensure compliance with the new campaign fiance laws and also a fact that chairman darrell issa selective released documents to support the claim that he was the one to request -- sorry,

guys. that the inspector general only look at conservative groups. and number three, they say holder failed to enforce multiple u.s. laws including the defensie of marriage act. doma struck down by the united states supreme court. now, granted, we haven't seen a lot of respect from the congress for the supreme court decisions these days but it was and it won't stop our friends not cuckoo caucus to undermine the attorney general but this is about the president. joining me now e.j. young and eric bolurt. thank you both. >> good to be with you. >> i want to start with you, eric, because what strikes me about this is, you know, it is not really about holder as so many of these things are. it's really about undermining the president, right? undermining the legitimacy of the obama presidency. >> yes. they have been attacking eric holder almost since inauguration

day and, you know, it reminds me of janet reno. i mean, they attacked her from day one of the clinton administration. she was there for eight years. looks like eric holder will be there for eight years. she was a historic figure. eric holder is a bit of a historic figure. it is constant attacks, sarah palins, sort of sabotage of the justice department. when there are legitimate questions he should be there, answer them. he answered them about fast and furious and the other conspiracies they have pushed. a.c.o.r.n. fox news, conservative media, tea party coalition in congress, they're absolutely committed to sort of completely trying to delegitimatize him as the nation's number one law enforcement agent and to attack president obama. i mean, they see holder and obama as one and the same. >> yeah. >> so attack, attack, attack. >> e.j. the thing on that is i

guess when you look at some of the others they have also kind of relentlessly attacked in the administration, i'll name a few names. eric holder, susan rice, van jones, sonja sotomayor and tom perez, it sounds -- something about each of those names to give me a picture in my head. what am i thinking, e.j.? >> i can't possibly read your mind, karen. i mean, you have to tell us. but i think, look. i don't want to charge racism here. you need proof for that. s if true that eric holder is the first african-american attorney general. it is not surprising that people ask that question. but the fact is i think his highest crime in their eyes is that he doesn't agree with them. in particular, which is not a crime. which is not against the law. >> right. >> as last i checked. thank goodness. and i think one of the things they really do hold against him,

it's striking on that list of congressman to impeach him, there are a bunch of names, republicans of texas. >> yep. >> eric holder has been very clear that he is going to enforce the voting rights act even though the supreme court knocked down part of it. and he's trying to use other parts of the voting rights act to knock down some of these voter suppression laws that have been passed in texas and north carolina and i suspect he's going to go elsewhere. and i do think that this is one of the things that eric holder has done to get under their skin. >> right. >> but, you know, on the race question they haven't been very nice to kathleen intel sebelius or a number of other people i could think of. >> it is striking me as interesting because the comments of these individuals, intentional or not, again, trying to undermine the legitimacy of the first african-american president, credibility, same thing with

attorney general holder and there's no there there is obviously a great offense on many levels. but, you know, eric, we all kind of know how this game goes. right? they feel like they're justified going after eric holder because they feel like they were in office and we went after their folks they, i don't know, started a war and things like that. there's an idea of this false equivalency but to the point that e.j. was making about the votes rights act, it also strikes many e that, you know, these kinds of fake scandals -- >> yes. >> time and resources are dedicated to -- i had to do it myself. xeroxing pages and pageless of whatever to get documents instead of going after texas on voter i.d. laws or making sure that laws are being implemented the way they should be. so i mean, it's interesting to me that, again, sort of what the ultimate motive is. >> back to sabotage. we have seen wit the health care law, the constant obstruction.

really republican party at this point refusing to move anything. any nominee. any legislation. anything that the obama white house puts forward. so they sort of do the same thing with the justice department and sabotage, putting sand in the gears and trying to slow down as e.j. mentioned, you know, voter i.d. laws and things like that and can't forget guns. >> right. >> yes. >> again like with janet reno, they were obsessed that she was going to take the guns, especially after waco. came up with the conspiracy theories. apparently looking at the pattern, any democrat appointed attorney general is an enemy of america. >> going to take your guns. >> gun control. this is really the ludicrous, the fast and furious campaign and fox news hyped forever. if you look at it. it just doesn't make any sense but they have hammered him for that for years. >> you know, e.j. to that point, there was even a video i have seen darrell issa suggesting

that president obama to fomented violence in order to get sympathy and support for an assault weapons ban here in the united states of america. that's the level of crazy that they're accusing this president and this attorney general of. >> no. i mean, it's really disturbing that, you know, sort of crazy paranoid stuff that used to be sort of held off in a crazy paranoid corner and you have always had people in america on both sides and all sides, but especially on the right wing, having these kind of conservative theories but they're now right in mainstream politics and i think eric's right in particular about guns. that, you know, the notion that we ought to -- it's odd. there's an inconsistency here because they say on the nra and others, well, let's just enforce the laws we have. >> right. >> but then when somebody tries to just enforce the laws we have, they're accused of doing terrible things and using the

government jack boots and all that. >> right. >> so there's a lot of craziness out there. particular craziness around guns. >> well, i mean, that's a thing about the enda thing that listing that in the articles of -- so you're not for enda but going to go ahead and go after the attorney general because he didn't defend it but the supreme court invalidated it anyway. thank you both. >> good to be with. here's a new one to try on the significant other. maybe my smartphone made me do it. that's later. as a business owner, i'm constantly putting out fires. so i deserve a small business credit card with amazing rewards. with the spark cash card from capital one, i get 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. i break my back around here. finally someone's recognizing me with unlimited rewards!

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dating sight for married people looking to stray, two thirds of cheaters would not be unfaithful if it weren't for technology. they said it was just too easy for them to get something-something on the side. okay. so in result that is we can believe, the survey also found that 45% cheated because their partner spent too much time online. put it down, folks. the big coin is taking over. subway sandwiches and now political campaigns. the fac will allow campaign contributions with the currency. it's around since 2009 and makes quick online payments without going through a bank. which has made it a favorite of less than savory operations like silk road, the shut down blackmarket. the fec won't consider the contributions money. instead, they'll be treated as in kind donations even though

the campaigns can spend it like money after it goes through a somewhat complicated conversion process. travelers, beware. the foreign industries of several countries are warning their citizens to avoid certain american cities. among those on the hit list, new york, especially tourist hot spots like times square and the statue of liberty and don't go to harlem or central park at dark. warn the french. canada's concerned about miami where the citizens, quote, been the victims of crimes uss such as break-ins, assaults and pick pocketing have they not seen their own mayor of toronto? now, germany has a more general warning. keep your clothes on. now, they say on their website, nude bathing and changing clothes at the beach stirs up public agitation and can lead to unpleasantness. all right. well, that's this week's fyi. next, when's up with the gag reflex?

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ugh. i'm sorry. i just had a conventional reaction. no, folks. let's be clear. cohen is specifically saying today's gop is not racist. therefore, it's not racist to gag when you see an interracial couple. a racist would actually throw up on them. >> and that was stephen colbert weighing in on the controversy this week over "the washington post" columnist richard cohen and the famous line about new york's soon to be mayor bill deblasio and wrote people with conventional views must repress a gag reflex when considering the mayor-elect of new york. the horror.

like the obamas in the white house, the deblasios are basically a typical american family. that is the reality of where america is today and while he's correct that attitudes need to catch up, achieving a postracial world, this is what it's going to look like. this is america in 2013. it's the reality. interestingly enough, the romney campaign and fox news tried to deny it and boy were they in for a surprise on election day. all they had to do is read the census. not everyone can keep up with the times and many americans are afraid of change. and i know and have lived it in my own personal experience as a mixed race person and now in 2013 we still see plenty of backlash and resistance to the trends that are shaping our nation. i would say for the better. and i will bet you can guess which side of the political spectrum it comes from. with me now is kevin noble-malard. thank you so much for joining me. >> thank you for having me. >> i love this piece you wrote

in "the atlantic." biracial cool. one of the points you make in here is how it just kind of became part -- it's who he was. it wasn't this is my black children, these are my brown children. this is my wife and kids. >> right. it is interesting because they're just a normal family as you said earlier but the difference is the deblasios eat cheerios and then just showing up anywhere, it could be just they're making breakfast, cookicoo cooking dinner and then on tv, you have them at an electoral rally. his kids in front of them. they have eyebrow peerings. stretched ears. a huge afro and then this incredible political issue. >> right. >> just because they're only being who they are and because they're of different races, it is something that people don't see on the television screens. >> that's part of what, you know, offended me about the

criticisms, you know, we heard this from the outgoing mayor bloomberg who suggested that he was using his family when this is his family. i worked with bill deblasio years ago and remember talking to him about his kids and him wanting to make sure they get to be, you know, who they are and that they have a great experience and that being biracial is just part of who they are. >> yeah. not anything out of the odd their because people do this in campaigns. right? you have the candidate who's always married to a person of their same race and they always have children and then that shows the voters, okay, this person is trustworthy, stable. and because you have these people on screen, they're of a different race, the kids are funky. she has a wonderful flower thing in the hair. >> awesome. >> amazing, yeah. because they're on screen in front of you, then it becomes this incredibly different issue and they're just doing whatever everyone else does. >> the thing is when donte did

that ad with the beautiful afro, part of what's so wonderful is a picture into bill deblasio to deal with as the father of a biracial child an issue a lot of people in this city have to deal with. >> absolutely. >> that was his experience. perfectly legitimate. >> right. it's interesting because when he says it it could happen to my son and recall when obama said this trayvon could have been my son, then it becomes a completely huge issue and all he's saying is this is a reality for me and i can understand these issues. >> this is my kid. >> yeah. >> a thing that's interesting is the conservatives came after you because apparently we have not given enough credit to wendy lee graham married to phil graham. and mitch mcconnell's marriage and the thing about that that bothers me is everybody should be happy that the world is changing, that we have a black president. that shouldn't be a partisan

issue. the fact that as you said biracial cool, not partisan. right? >> right. >> that's just america. >> right. it is not even that cool. right? it is just the people -- >> it is getting there. >> just existing. >> we are here and not going anywhere. >> but it's a difference because you don't see mixed couples on television a lot. you don't see them in movies. you will never hardly ever see a big movie star in a blockbuster movie opposite a romantic interracial lead. that's so rare. >> we will some day. >> some day. i hope we are getting there and then it's not really part of our collective identity but everyone knows a mixed couple, mixed people. it's not anything out of the ordinary but now to have it so public i think that's what makes it different for most americans. >> by the way, it is the reality of the change that's happening in this country. i hope it's more of the norm. >> and a good thing. >> thank you, professor. that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. please don't forget to share your thoughts. find us on facebook, tweet us. but i will see you back here

tomorrow afternoon same bat time, same bat channel. ♪ ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc works with you to understand yours and help plan for your retirement. visit a branch or call now for your personal retirement review. wout of landfills each year? plastic waste to cover mt. rainier by using one less trash bag each month, we can. and glad forceflex bags stretch until they're full.* so you can take them out less often. is a really big deal.u

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