cycle" this week, 8 people are dead and hundreds homeless after severe storms on sunday. this hour pat quinn who you just heard there gets a firsthand look at the damage. he's been chris crossing the state just left the hard hit town of washington, the twitter that hit there had a preliminary strength rating of an ef-4, that means winds up to 200 miles per hour. jay gray is in washington, illinois. it's unusual to get storms this strong so late in the season. what are you hearing and seeing on the ground? >> reporter: no question, tour'e, always good to talk to you. what we hear and see is shock. people still don't understand what happened here. this splintered wood and twisted metal. these pieces of people's lives scattered for miles right now. some moving into the neighborhoods for the first time within the last hour. let's push through some of this debris and you'll get a look at now poring through what's left of their homes and community, searching for anything that may represent their life, but when

you see the magnitude, the intensity of what's happened here, you begin to understand it's going to be very difficult to come by. we now know at least eight people are dead, six victims killed during storms here in central illinois, two in michigan. dozens have been injured. thousands still without power right now. teams are continuing to move into some of the hardest hit areas like this one. poring through this debris and rubble. there is concern, tour'e that more victims can be found before all of this is over. this shock and lot of victims still not able to get their heads around what has happened here. we heard from them. let's take a listen. >> this town will come together. we always do. we'll come back. we'll come back.

>> we ran around going to my neighbors' house looking for survivors. i mean, i just couldn't believe it. >> two vehicles sitting across in the field over there. one of which was inside our garage at the time. >> the emotions just like the damage here so very raw. there's a lot of people to get through right now. they can't begin to think about recovery. they have to decide how to start the cleanup here and again a lot of neighborhoods they can't get back in right now. downed power lines and cracked gas line and water mains preventing that from happening. local officials hope within the next day or so that the majority of those pushed from their homes will at least be able to get back inside. >> jay gray, thanks so much. our hearts go out to those families. we turn to politics, techies fixing health cacare.gov have 1 days left to get the website running properly before the

self-imposed deadline. if people don't enroll by december 15th, their coverage might not start on the first of the year. according to the "washington post," the administration says it will be happy if it works 80% by the end of the month. >> it's not acceptable ongoing but they are saying by the fixes to the websites they -- they are anticipating that 80% by the end -- by december 1 as we go forward. no, it has to be improved upon then. but again, the measure will be how many more people can sign up, have few eer mistakes and glitches and shortening time to get on. >> democrats won't lose seats next year over obama care? >> i don't think you can tell what will happen next year. i will tell you this, democrats stand tall in support of affordable care act.

>> friend of the show perry bacon is back. msnbc analyst and nency pelosi doesn't have a krystal ball but we do -- >> got to love the crystal ball jokes. >> we saw obama care making some folks get a little bit nervous. but obama care remains popular among democrats and as pointed out today, if dems help republicans obliterate it, it will be an enormous admission of governing incompetence and repud yags of poor progressive philosophy. so i'm wondering how many folks will be willing to give this up at this difficult moment of implementation. do you see more dems jumping ship in the future to perhaps where we get to veto proof number? >> i do not. the key thing to look forward to what actually happens in terms of the law.

if the website is working for 30% of the people next june, then we have a different conversation of course. right now 39 democrats defected and they also know in the house on friday and they know mostly democrats that that vote was symbolic vote. it's an easy vote for them. they know the bill will not pass the senate and senate democrats know it's not going to pass the whole senate right now. any kind of broad repeal or attack of obama care. they are casting symbolic votes that says, look, i'm upset about this website too. we're seeing democrats vent and you've heard the president speak to that. he all but apologized on thursday and look, i'm sorry, i sent you out with this message that wasn't quite right. they are kind -- the white house is trying to keep democrats calmed down right now and those votes basically give a chance to protest if they want to. >> what do you make of the importance of this november 30th

deadline? it seems to me, this isn't a cut and dry thing whether the website is quote unquote working or not on that date. both sides will see what they want when november 30th comes around. >> i think you're exactly right. i don't expect the white house to have a press conference that says, 77% of the users can use the website. if it's 93, they probably will. if it's 77, i don't think they will. i wouldn't focus as much -- the key thing is, there will be a ramp up in terms of number of people to sign up, like december 2nd, so on. on those days, is the website working or on october 1st where you have large numbers of people, journalists included trying to log on and can't? that's the key thing. when people actually need to sign up for health insurance, does the website work? and this will be anecdotal in some ways, there's no real nationwide report that comes out on how the website is working. but you can look and see state

by state how are things going. that's the real measure here. >> the difference between this situation and other second term controversy, something you've written about, whether it be the nsa, government shutdown, syria or irs, you name it, obama care is a signature issue, one that affects millions of americans. there no villain that obama can take on in this situation and strikes the heart of two core principles that defined his administration, competence and credibility. on top of all of that he has a problem with democrats, many of which are up for re-election, some would argue this is giving credibility to republicans. you would never would have expected that two or three weeks ago. it seems his domestic legacy at this point solely relies on getting this website fixed. >> this is really important to get this website fixed. you can see on thursday how emphatic he was about when to get this done. he was very apologetic in a way he is not. i do think right now if you look state by state in terms of 2014, it's important to note, the

republicans were going to keep control of the house anyway. it's very unusual for the party in control of the white house to gain seats in the sixth year. six year itch all the time where people get tired of the president. you're seeing the numbers falling in part for that reason. the senate is the real challenge. you have a bunch of democrats in red states who voted for this health care law and places where the president lost. i would say some of them are probably going to lose anyway but this is not an issue that makes it earier fsier for them campaign. >> you get told past performance does not indicate future success. and while the six-year thing is historical precedent, it's also unusual to have people threaten the good faith and credit of the united states, and to shut down the government after they got their deal. storylines have been momentarily displaced. i want to look more broadly, perry, whether the administration has been too quick to accept criticisms of obama care as the frame of this

discussion. the name obama care they tried to rehabilitate but it has been misleading and giving the sense it is a health care product but it's a series of regulations. the idea that the individual market piece is the whole plan. you have people, smart people who i talk to who think the website is the plan. and it's not. a huge part of the plan is expanding -- >> it's not? >> no. a huge part is complaining health care coverage with states and federalism and conservative value. many governors resisted that and even still we have expanded coverage under medicaid and medicare, et cetera. do you think there's a political problem here in being defined and apologized into one piece of the plan? >> i do. i think the one thing you're seeing today, the white house is beginning to start trying to change the dialogue. they are pushing the governor of maine today in a press conference in a conference call to expand medicaid. they haven't told the story about one that medicaid -- a lot

of people in the country, something like 400,000 in october alone received medicaid under this plan. they haven't told us during the republican governor stopping them. three, they haven't told the story yes, the website is nopt the entire plan. if you asked public politics about what happened last week. not a lot who thought it was a good move to basically change the health care law in the middle. they lost the message arguing it there and they thought they had to concede. i think you argue to the point that more concessions are not really building support, they are losing support for the law. it's not going -- these democrats in congress are going to keep complaining until this is what they do, complain a lot about a lot of things. the think the president does or nancy pelosi has to reel them in, this is our core idea. this is what we campaigned on. we worked two years on this and buck up and get back on it. i think they have to get that message now. >> so we have a lot of folks

saying that at the end of o bam am's second term but this seems to be very common, this idea of second term blues, not just an obama problem but pretty much everybody, back through second terms we get watergate with nixon and iran-contra with reagan and katrina and the financial crisis with the second bush. second term blues are fairly consistent. i want your opinion on why is that so common. >> people get tired of the president. and i think it's just something that happens. particularly people in his own party feel this is the time they can criticize him. he won re-election, he's safe. i would say, this is not hurricane katrina as you all probably agree, not the financial meltdown, definitely not. this is different. and if the website is fixed, remember how breathless we were about the irs earlier about syria few months ago. if the website is fixed in a few months and that's possible. this will be a different

conversation. obama's numbers may not be 50% but may get closer to 48 or 49 again. >> when you say this is not obama's katrina, you're giving a nice little preview of my rant there, perry bacon. thanks for that. >> good to see you again. >> up next, snl has its own recommendations for a presidential pancea and so will we as we spin. it's monday, november 18th. how are things with the new guy?

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>> treats a whole range of symptoms, like benghazi, the nsa scandal, the irs scandal, the ap scandal, the petraeus scandal, the time jay-z and beyonce went to cuba and obama care website problems. p paxil is not covered by obama care. we promised it would be but it's not and for that we apologize. >> it's no doubt that's a rough couple of weeks or months for president obama which means he might as well give it all up and move right out of 1600 pennsylvania avenue tomorrow. >> reporter: the flawed rollout of the affordable care act threatening to undermine the future of his second term and presidency. >> this will be a story of an epic collapse. >> last three years of presidency he'll have a hard time getting anything done. >> wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago everybody was saying this. >> the pressure on the republicans will continue to mount. >> the end of power.

boehner's power is diminished. >> they lost one presidential race, another presidential race. they lost senate races. >> looks to me everybody could use a little pain relief. >> now there's paxil republican strength. for tea party related depression. >> that's amazing. let's spin. i do think, we have such short memory, it was only recently it was the gop civil war and end of the republican party and they were going to become regional party and relegated to the best men of history and now obama's presidency is over and democrats will lose the house and senate. everyone should just calm down a little bit. in terms of health care, even though it hasn't been nearly what we wanted the rollout to look like, we have over half a million people who have health insurance, many of whom didn't have it before. i'm quite comfortable being on the side of the folks who want to give people health insurance, rather than those who are desperately doing everything

they can to take it away. >> amen to that. it reminds me of something mark twain says reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated. that's not quite where we are with the obama presidency just yet. what does it have to do to move forward? get the website going. it's not a policy problem. it's an implementation problem. that's a lot easier. if we had significant policy problems, we were worrying than right now we have an implementation problem which it totally is sur mountable. it's different than the syria issue where obama is decider and they are saying figure out what you want to do. he's not a coder, can't go down and figure out, here's the problem with the website. he's not even probably picking the person sitting at the computer doing that. it's a slightly different sort of problem. but i imagine that this too shall pass. >> that leads to the question of then maybe there should be some changes made here. i think people are willing to be patient if there is some accountability that they can trust that they know with that

patience that they are going to get what they are waiting for in the end. i think that's what is missing. you have a majority of americans that don't trust the president but that begs the question of do they fire certain people that were responsible for this disastrous rollout. some people say that might add to the chaos because think about the confirmation process which would be incredibly problematic. now there's an opening with the trust gap from republicans saying this is maybe an opening for us. i know this has been written about in politico, the republicans have gone with a blank sheet of paper because they don't have a lot, this is an opening for us to talk about the economy and really reach out to the middle class to a group of people we haven't won over in the last few election cycles. so this could potentially be an opportunity for republicans and give them more credibility but they have to put policies forward. >> i think a couple of dynamics here are deeper than the washington class.

you mentioned the confirmation process would be chaotic. well, only if the republicans continue to have the highest obstruction rate of any president's nominees ever in american history. that under -- the part of the hesitance to replace major cabinet members. we zoom in so narrowly and say, should we replace is sebelius o not and then the senate in good faith gets another nominee through. and they fill busted elizabeth warren into the senate. there's a larger context to the way government doesn't work or works slowly. >> how do you build up accountability if you don't make those changes? >> my point is, how do you make those changes when you have people in the senate devoted to that sabotage. as to approval numbers, it's important to understand, we look at gallup poll over the entire history of second term presidents and this president, 1700 days or so in, about where

w. bush was and lbj, clinton was higher. but this notion that this is really bad or worse for obama, it's actually right in the average. if anything impressive because we're in such a super polarized time period. >> also, not on the ballot for 2014. >> thank you for pointing that out. the author not in favor of getting anything done in congress, especially on immigration reform. let's bring in raul reyes. we have a house that will be in republican control for the foreseeable future and party on right that used immigration to motivate its folks for well over a decade. that math is not suggest to me that immigration reform has any foreseeable future or any life in its future. i think it's kind of dead. what do you think? >> i will allow that.

it is now -- things are not looking good for the remainder of this year. however, you all know this congress still has 13 months left. this is not a controversial issue. all the polling shows from gallup and other places, immigration reform is broadly supported by republicans and democrats and even in some very republican districts like congressman steve king's district. we have a failure of leadership in john boehner to move this forward. probably the number one question asked, whether immigration reform will ultimately succeed and what i tell them, remember how we hurt so much, yes we can and said that to president obama during his two campaigns, that came from chavez, one of chavez's other catch phrases was, the struggle continues, meaning no matter where we are, no matter what the odds are against us, we will keep going.

i think the pro reform is right now. >> you mentioned chavez, organizing workers and latino and we see what the dreamers are doing, i was looking at the bakersfield, california, had interesting video, dreamers and young people storming mccarthy's office just to ask whether they were going to hold a vote on this at this point. that drew him to say something he drew him to say, yeah, we'll try to do that next year. then john boehner was push the on this in public. i want to quickly play that sound. >> got to find somebody to get this thing done. you know not easy, not going to be an easy path forward. but it's time to get this done. >> so we can count on your vote for? >> i'm trying --

>> what does it tell you about the republican floor vote republican pressures than any other -- >> what else i see from these clips, you have to -- looking nationally, the interesting thing about where we are with immigration reform. is seems by political analysis, they say it's dead but doesn't have a chance of going anywhere. bupt the activist and civil diso bead yens has increased. the two girls you showed in the clip who tracked down speaker boehner at the diner and asked him about his position on immigration reform, they are ages 16 and 13. i don't know what you were doing when you were 13. to be honest, i didn't know who the speaker of the house even was. that gives you an idea that this issue for so many people in the latino community led by dreamers and young activists, it has really become a movement. so there will continue to be action and continue to be pressure. and hopefully at this point there will be some type of

breakthrough that we can see something actually accomplished legislatively. >> absolutely, they are so inspiring to watch. immigration reform has to pass through capitol hill, but are there actions that the president could take himself and go around congress to do so? >> right, he has resisted doing that so far. but it is well within its executive powers to grant? relief to the undocumented population. as a matter of fact on friday he issued an order saying that family members and spouses of active military and veterans can receive relief from deportation and granted a similar relief through the dreamers, through the deferred action program. what the president can do, republicans will absolutely -- they will be infuriated, he can expand eligibility for action and secure communities program, a pipeline for many undocumented people into detention and deportation or just broaden the

class of people eligible for temporary protective status. those are all fully constitutional, fully legal methods that he has. he's thinking about his legacy. doesn't have to worry about re-election. and unfortunately right now, his legacy is record deportations, new york times reported that the obama administration is on track to record not only record level of 2 million deportations but during his administration, he will have deported more people than the united states did between 1892 and 1997. that's not a record that he's happy with. look for him to take action unilaterally and do something to offer relief to undocumented immigrants. >> we're missing out on a reform that would have a massive positive impact on america. thank you so much. >> up next, americans inundating the nsa with the question, are you spying on me? answer not so satisfying, ari. [ male announcer ] at his current pace,

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>> in the midwest we're starting to realize the scope of the devastation from tornadoed that ripped through on sunday. pat quinn is touring the damage right now in the region the death toll has risen to 8. the national weather service estimates 30 to 40 tornadoes touched down and left 500 homes and businesses without power. stocks pulling back slightly after a record day. the dow stopped 16,000 for the first time ever and the s&p topped 1800 before easing off the gas. investors remain optimistic that the fed will continue with stimulus. george zimmerman was arrested in florida. a domestic disturbance call regarding his girlfriend. in july he was found not guilty of second degree murder in the shooting death of trayvon

martin. the supreme court ducked a chance to review the nsa controversial eavesdropping practices. documents leaked revealed the extent of spying and it was considered a long shot for the court to take up. and that decision by the court today comes as more americans than ever are formerly asking the nsa, are you spying on me? according to usa today, the number of open records requests by individuals seeking to learn if they are spied on increased 900% since the snowden story broke. the response they are getting back a letter that nsa can confirm nor deny whether they are being monitored. >> that's comforting. >> not exactly a satisfying answer and it is creating a rist in the gop between the rand paul libertarians and national security driven republicans and that could spell trouble for a tea party congressman.

he has been one of d.c.'s most outspoken critics of the nsa policies and got a bill within ten votes of passing this summer. now he finds himself facing a primary challenge from a more mainstream voice accusing the congressman of not representing republican values of his constituents. let's bring in secretary to president clinton, david, it's great to have you here. if he does not pull off the win in the midterms, does that say something about the nsa or general distaest for the tea party? >> well, i have to say, we don't know if there's any one single issue that would determine the fate of this congressman from michigan. what is interesting, you mention he came very close to getting a bill through the house of representatives that would have done a lot to shed light on the nsa program. don't forget, that bill -- that amendment was co-sponsored by john conyers, also from michigan, the ranking democrat on the house judiciary

committee. unlike anything we see in c contemporary times. it appeals to tea party belief there should be freedom from interfeens feerns from the state and that privacy should be held sacred and none of us should be spied upon. let's remember, when president bush was in charge and there were stories of progressive anti-war groups being spied on by the government, we on the left got all up in arm and thought that was terrible. you have to understand to a conservative to somebody who does not trust president obama, they have a similar reaction to the notion and that is something of a unifying force. in the case of this congressman. this will play well for him in grand rapids heartland michigan area. this is gerald ford country after all and it's going to be a good issue for someone even like him to run on in he needs to.

>> a long history of this, people who are civil libertarian liberals concerned about police conduct and brutality and skeptical of power. and bring some of that hearty american excepticiskepticism to programs. another big bill being talked about in the senate is al franken's transparency act. what would that do? >> it's a fascinating approach. the franken bill among other things would say that companies may disclose the number of people that have -- that the government is asked them to reveal -- i'm not saying that very well, the point is right now, companies are being told by the government, don't speak, you may not tell the public how many times we've asked you for information. and google -- >> they might take david's info and pass it to the government. if they want to do tell you what they did, they are not allowed

to. >> that's exactly right. google testified at a hearing on this bill last week and said we would love to be able to tell you, senator and everybody else in this hearing what's going on, but the nsa and federal government tells us we cannot and that's not right. we should have able to have that much transparency. the other thing the bill would do, require the government to disclose the number of searches it does, not the number of times under section 215 of the patriot act that it actually has zeroed in on anybody, but the number of times it's collected overall. we know that to be everybody, the nsa collected data on everybody. and that's something that the franken bill would require the government to report, just to tell us. >> and defenders of this type of surveillance would say yes, it's in america's national security interest. how much do we actually know about how effective this sort of surveillance is and how critical it is for national security? i know the nsa head said it helped to foil 54 terror plots

but it turns out it's more complicated than that. >> krystal, that is the question. the national security apparatus for all of the american history has justified based on national security. the internment of japanese americans during world war ii was justified on national security means. that went all the way to the supreme court and the supreme court said if it's national security, it must be okay. we have to be able to say to the government, you bear the burden of proof to show us that it is absolutely necessary. we can't take your word for it. the fact of the matter is as long as things remain is in secret and no public advocate to question and the congress can discuss with the public what's going on, too much secrecy is going to lead to abuse, period. >> that's totally right in terms of domestic usage of it but there's two issues unlocked in this kind of issue.

the foreign surveillance issue, i hope you see that as entirely different than the domestic issue. it seems to be running amuck but in terms of us staffing the phones of angela merkel or leaders of china or france, i think we have to do it for national security. >> i want you to consider this. we, the united states, have gone around the world and said we need to preserve and fry and open internet. that the internet should be free from government censorship and interference, our state department officials argue that. now, imagine you're that state department official today. and you go and say that to somebody from germany, they look at you and say, wait a second, pal, you hacked in my leader's phone and now you want government out of the internet? we have created such a problem for our own position worldwide that the internet should be free of government censorship. that's a bigger problem than

just the fact we've done it. >> we've got to get the right balance here, david goodfriend, thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> we asked if our fans wanted know if the government is spying on them of the anthony waterman doesn't think it's a question of if. he knows he's being spied on. interesting. like us on facebook and we will not use your information to spy on you. we'll leave that to the nsa. up next from cultural task maker, tv film music and literature bond v. bond, james joins us right here.

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>> that's just one of the many scenes from scarface that made the movie infamous and only ones ke can show on daytime television. our next guest review where he tore apart limb by limb no chain saw needed. for the better part of the last 40 yeerds if there was a cultural touchstone, our next guest probably wrote a definitive account. his best work is captured in a new collection of essays critical mass, four decades of essays, reviews and hand grenades. joining us now is james wall cot from vanity fair. >> it's amazing how that movie is still a cultural touchstone. at the time we had no idea. once in the caribbean and went

by a place and like everyone was gathered around the one tv set, watching scarface. it was like a bible to them. the quote. you never know what's going to last. >> it's not a great film as art, it's considered a powerful film that spawned so many other followers, music, rap artists based, why is that? >> i think part of it is pacino's performance which a lot of people at the time who is al pacino to play a cuban. but he turns it into something that's almost opera attic and say hello to my little friend and, remember in breaking bad, it was one of the moments of skyler's horror, when she comes in and walt and the sun are watching "scar face".

>> i'm in the middle of it, don't spill anything. >> breaking bad. >> no, that is a show tha a lot of people will see. >> and another essay i enjoyed was your -- you were looking at how woody allen sort of excavated the stand-up comedy icon and had that sort of newer otic jew, i can say that. he made the persona of pacing novelistic presence on screen. modernism and post modern six linking absurdism of the bohemian 50s to free floating irony of the upmy asendancecy, seinfeld, without woody allen no george kas tan za and no forest gump. you look at the later films that have gotten more serious and more moral. how does that hold up? >> i think a lot has changed

since he went over to london, shot movies and barcelona and paris. he's -- when he left the new york persona, he left behind a lot of stand-up persona. it's very interesting, i was with a comedian mort and brought there by woody allen. and the night everyone is like woody might get up. there's still a notion that woody might return to stand-up and he's now talking about it. stand-up gave him a rhythm to the dialogue that no one else up to that point. when you see stand-up comics, it is written for them by other people and doesn't quite work. he learned how to use his voice and also how to set his voice to make the rhythm of the movie fit his voice and his persona. >> another lasting cultural icon

in this book is in rand, he's given the books to his staffers. he's said that she was basically the reason he entered public service. why do you think ayn rand and her novels have stood the test of time and still such sources of inspiration to the right wing basically? >> the thing is they are like power drugs. the thing about it is, the woman was a total fanatic and i say that almost with a sense of admiration, which is any woman who -- any writer who would spend two years on the one speech, that has to have a belief in yourself. >> absolutely. >> when she's doing this, she knows, they will want to take this out. she wouldn't do it. she also had a imagination. two of the things she most liked

were perry mason, she was not high brow modernism. what weird about the way she's been taken up is all of these like really pidling policy walks who act like because they have ayn rand they have superman emblem on their chest. the other thing is, she was not religious and totally pro-choice. she said a woman's autonomy -- that is now totally forgotten. when you take someone like paul ryan, i embrace ayn rand but my catholicism -- they all have their religion. they take what they want but mostly take the power trip. >> you wrote this great piece about the transition from movies to tv, that that is where the action is and that is where obsessions really get formed because the movie industry doesn't have the leeway or ability to take chances quite like tv does.

you mentioned "breaking bad" and the finale had 53 million watching. why have we seen this transition and walk us through what both industries will look like longer term? >> i think they are all going to blend into each other. part of what happened is producers and show writers got real power on the cable shows, an absolute power, david chase. in the past nobody would have been able to say, well, we're not going to put the sopranos back on for a year and a half. because a network would have said, no, you're coming back in the fall. none of this stuff. and so they all created power. the social media also has a huge impact. with movies, the way i see this, it's mostly critics talking back and forth and maybe some civilians. on sunday night on twitter, it's like if you haven't watched a show you can't go on twitter -- >> it's so true. >> "walking dead" fans, when

"game of thrones" comes back, do scandal, there's an obsessional quality. >> and it's multicultural. >> oh, yeah. >> what's your favorite essay or article in the book? >> i really love writing a piece about doris day and rock hudson and those types of comedies, they were revery under rated and still underrated and i sort of like being able to like -- doris day has taken such knocks over the years, including myself. that was a really fun -- >> james wolcott, thanks for being here. >> what happens when washington plays mad libs with obama care website? thinks get truthy, handing out false equivalency awards. ♪ ♪

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the collaboration with citi was important for providing us the necessary financing; allow this small start-up to go provide a service to municipalities. citi has been an incredible source of advice, how to engage with municipalities, how to structure deals, and as we think about internationally, citi is there every step of the way. so the end result is you reduce congestion, you reduce pollution and you provide a service to merchants, and that certainly is huge. and the award for false equivalency of the year goes to -- ah, i knew it! the idea that the rollout of obama care is obama's katrina moment. and how could that not win? it's been everywhere. we have seen it on tv. >> barack obama is where george w. bush was three months after katrina. the same approval rating. so i think that was the quinnipiac poll. put this into perspective.

what does this crisis remind you of, and of course, we're not saying there is any moral equivalence. >> i think katrina may be the best analogy, joe. >> we have seen it on twitter. george stephanopoulos there. and we have seen it in print. a bush official recently told the "new york times" quote, the okay hes of the 2005 are erie. katrina matches to the rollout of the website. but katrina is not shorthand for bungled federal policy. it's a moment when the federal government responded callously, as 1,833 people died and tens of thousands suffered in the super dome and throughout new orleans. we can't just toss out the moral part. yes, both the response to katrina and the rollout of the aca involved presidential failure, mismanagement, and incompetence. that's not nearly enough to earn the analogy, the hand maiden of money dasty. in response to katrina, we saw a president who the "new york times" called, quote, casual to

the point of carelessness. does the rollout of obama care compare to that? as jamel buoy wrote, healthcare.gov is not in the same ballpark, not in the same league, not in the same sport. failing to provide a website to provide health care coverage to consumers is categorically different than a nonresponse to a natural disaster that claimed thousands of lives. this isn't comparing apples and oranges, it's comparing apples and space ships. the response to katrina flows out of a conservative small government philosophy where the aca troubles flow out of a liberal desire to take care of everyone. but this bankrupt analogy has been used in reference to a myriad of events. as chris hayes reminded me, jon stewart made a meal out of it in 2010. >> it's been called obama's katrina. >> is this going to be obama's katrina? >> president obama's katrina. >> it's crazy. it's like no matter what happens during the obama administration, there's the perfect bush

[ bleep ]. for the occasion. >> the crazy part is, it's conservatives and republicans that are in the biggest rush to make the comparisons. remember that terrible thing that bush did that we fought for eight years to convince you wasn't bad but actually good? is well now we use those very incidents as the low watermark for your guy! >> what i think is happening here, the deep bottom line, is the right had bush, a guy they originally believed in, who left office with record-low approval ratings, a deeply painful experience. their response has been to minimize obama in order to make bush seem less bad. but what you're doing in doing that is conceding that bush was bad, and that you're embarrassed about katrina. and though we may be embarrassed about the rollout, we will never be embarrassed by having fought to extend health care. we will never apologize for that. and when obama care becomes part of the american landscape, transforming health care in

america, what big bush domestic achievement will we liken it to? i don't know either. that does it for "the cycle." martin bashir takes over next. we'll see you tomorrow. on car i. mmmhmmm...everybody knows that. well, did you know that old macdonald was a really bad speller? your word is...cow. cow. cow. c...o...w... ...e...i...e...i...o. [buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. you get your coffee here. you get your hair cut here. you find that certain thing you were looking for here, but actually you get so much more. when you shop at these small local businesses, you support all the things that make your community great. the money you spend here, stays here. in this place you call your neighborhood.

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♪ last friday, on this broadcast, i made some comments which were deeply offensive and directed at governor sarah palin. i wanted to take this opportunity to say sorry to mrs. palin and to also offer an unreserved apology to her friends and family, her supporters, our viewers, and anyone who may have heard what i said. my words were wholly unacceptable. they were neither accurate, nor