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tv   Lockup  MSNBC  November 23, 2013 6:00pm-7:01pm PST

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due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. ♪ the shocking execution style murders of four women result in the arrests of two brothers. >> you trying to kill me for something i didn't do? >> now with pressure mounting, distrust comes between them. >> most definitely going to be brother against brother. >> this is soap. it actually comes out of the showers. >> an inmate with a long arrest
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record discovers an incredible talent and -- >> i cut her like this. she had my hair. >> a fight breaks out between two female inmates. there's more behind it than meets the eye. >> i love you. >> i love you, too. >> one of these two friends will suffer an unthinkable tragedy. ♪ ♪ >> with a population just under 400,000, tulsa, oklahoma, still maintains a small town feel. but it is not immune to big city crime. there are 1800 men and women
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incarcerated at the tulsa county jail. most are only accused of crimesen are awaiting trial or the resolution of their cases. >> i'll see y'all later. be good. >> because the inmates are innocent until proven guilty, officers try to afford them as many privileges as possible. one man just booked into jail will require special handling. >> this guy here in holding cell nine, he is here on four counts of murder. we keep him in a cell by himself because of the high publicity of the case. we don't want him to be with general population in case someone here is a relative of someone he's accused of murdering. just for his safety and ours. just keep him locked up by himself. >> the new inmate is james poor. he is charged with first degree murder for the execution style slayings of four women a month earlier. they are found together in an apartment.
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all four had their hands bound behind their backs and each had been shot in the head. poor said he lived in the same complex and was friends with two of the victims. he has yet to enter a plea, he says he's completely innocent. >> people say you supposed to have faith in the system but it don't work like they say it's supposed to. these people going to kill mow for something didn't do? i don't want to die for something i didn't do. the part that got me so emotional is that these are our friends and now i'm being -- they saying i'm being charged with their deaths. >> poore recently completed a 12-year prison sentence for
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the armed rob riff four convenience stores and had numerous jail stays on less serious convictions. >> for the first time in my life, i'm innocent and everybody except me and god thinks i'm guilty. >> tulsa homicide investigators believe poore is not only guilty, but he did not act alone. they say he was aided by another man booked into the jail a few days earlier on a parole violation. it's poore's older brother and he, too, is charged with four counts of first degree murder. >> i'm dwayne poore. i haven't killed no one at no time ever, in my life. it's not my case, period. do i know what's going on? no. am i lost? yes.
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do i need help? yes. am i ready to cry? yes. am i pissed? yes. i don't have any feelings about the case. i don't want to sound cold-blooded or coldhearted about this case, i don't. i don't have no feelings toward this case because it's not my case. as for my brother, i can't speak for my brother, but i don't believe he had anything to do with it. at this point. i don't believe it. >> i seen brothers turns against each other for justly they bitty stuff 4. that's like they wasn't brought up the right way or something. >> raised in a large family, both james and cedric say nothing can break the strong bond they share. >> my relationship with my brother is tight. all of my brothers. i got five of them, all of them is tight, very close. very close. >> we always say one after
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parting after finished talking on the phone, one love. >> there's nothing i wouldn't do for my brothers. >> i don't believe nobody would love me more than they would. we have been through so much coming up. >> those bonds could still be put to the test. they have both served sentences for armed robbery, they have never faced such serious consequences. if they are found guilty of the murders, they will be eligible for the death penalty. >> i have done wrong in my past, but honestly, i don't think i'm going to get a fair shake on this one. >> why? >> because of my past. >> why are you convinced you are going to be found guilty? >> because my last case, i didn't go into the store or even shoot at the people and i got booked for it. now, i'm in the same position and i don't know who to tell. so, i'm locked up again because
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i didn't snitch. this time, i don't have a parole date or nothing like that. there's going to be an execution date. >> but james poore might have already spoken. the police report states he says and cedric committed the murders. and robbed the victims. it's been reported to the media as well. >> i don't want to say my brother got me involved in this. i don't want to say they don't have me involved in this. i don't want to say what the news media is trying to get me to say. i don't want to say my brother is trying to implicate me. i doernt don't believe it, i won't say it. do i love me brother? yes. would i kill for my brother, hell no. coming up -- i would lie for him, hey, you're talking about death penalty. >> cedric poore -- >> when the poore brothers make their first appearance before
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the judge, one is left feeling betrayed. and -- >> she said no, what you should have did is move out of my way. i said, no, bitch you should have said excuse me. >> the fight between two inmates with an ulterior motive. you start at point "a." and you work hard to get to the next level. it feels good when you reach point b, but you're not done. for you, "b" is not the end. capella university will take you further,
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♪ >> like most other jails, tulsa county has plenty of hard luck stories among the 1800 inmates. drug addiction is often at the center of those stories. richard roberts is no exception. >> i had a cocaine addiction. it was brought on. about '86. it's been on and off struggle. >> drugs that his prison stays over 25 years. he's pled guilty or no contest
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to 14 different charges ranging from driving with a suspended license to burglary and assaulting a police officer. he says he's drug free now but his current problems are rooted elsewhere. >> i have a thing about women. i've set back after 56 years and i finally realized something. women are the downfall to all great men. we can go back to adam and eve. we can go to napoleon. we can even go to bill clinton. >> now richard roberts. >> now richard roberts. i have always been a womanizer. that's what most people think. something about a nice man in his mid-50s with a nice smile, healthy body and a full head of hair, women have a tendency to attract themselves to it. they are like moths to light. they just flutter right on in. >> though roberts considers himself a ladies man, some of
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the women in his life disagree. he is currently charged with assault and battery against a former girlfriend. he's pled not guilty and is awaiting trial. 16 months earlier, he pled guilty to three counts of violating a protective order. taken out by another woman. he served 60 days in the tulsa county jail. >> i was hooked on women for a long time. after my wife left me and everything, my attitude changed about women. that was probably where the switch started going in reverse toward cocaine. >> though he has been caught in the jail's revolving door, robert says it was during a stay two year earlier that he had an epiphany. it had to do with soap in the
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shower stalls. >> i actually take the leftover refuge. this is off the floors in the shower. left over. it's not new soap, it's used soap. my name in the jailhouse is nut soap crafty. the soap sometimes has filaments of other people's parts. i started back two years ago. i was sitting in jail and had been here two months and it was just boredom. i said let me try something. i told my celly i was going to make a monkey. he said you can't do it. i made a monkey. i take the bits and pieces on the floor, i take the pieces, i bring them in here and dry them out and grind them into a powder. since it's contraband and
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there's a window right behind me, i wear my cape while i'm working so officers can't see what i'm doing. then after grind it into a powder you add a little water anne make clay with it. >> he makes his sculpting tools from discarded items. >> lay it intact and put it in the sharpener and sharpen it to give you an edge on it. >> a lot of work with the feathers and skin and detail. >> yeah. yeah, that's staple work. hours sitting with the stapler, etching. one little scratch at a time. >> though, his artistic skills are notable, technically his scul sculptures could be considered contraband.
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>> the system has you believe anything not in the matrix is contraband. to me, i'm utilizing the soap, maybe not to take a shower with, but i'm not losing any of the quantity of soap. all i'm doing is altering the shape. what i tell them is if you are upset with me for using soap you should be upset with everyone that uses their soap for showering because they ailt altered the soap as well. >> if, in fact, the staff has turned blind eye on repurposing of soap, there are many other things that will send to you administration segregation, as trinity baker learned after fighting with an inmate. >> i have been here eight days. >> i go crazy in this little room. i'll never fight again, i promise. >> like all other segregation inmates, baker is confined to a
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single person cell 23 hours a day and has lost most of her privileges. >> how do you spend your days? >> i spend my days trying to sleep. when i can't, i try to write, read. read a lot. >> this is baker's final day in segregation and her time at jail is coming to an end as well. she is awaiting transfer to prison to serve a five-year sentence after pleading for false ownership at the pawnshop. at the time of her arrest, she was on parole including for earlier corrections including auto theft and meth am at the ti -- methamphetamines. a drug she's been addicted to for the past ten years. >> i was so bad, my mom passed away, i didn't even notice it. i still haven't dealt with it. all she wanted was a relationship with her daughter and i was so high i couldn't do that. now, she's gone. i can't go back to that. >> the incident that led to her
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going to segregation -- >> she walked past me and pushed me. i said you could said excuse me. >> i went to get on my bunk. i walked past her without saying excuse me. >> she said you should have moved out of my way. i said what you should have done is said excuse me. we started cussing each other out. >> i just broke them up, called an escort in to get them separated. >> after detention officer rich broke up the argument, she decided it would be best to move baker to another housing pod. >> she was severely agitated. she was the one that was being really verbal. >> she said y'all moving me because of this bitch? i'm going to get you bitch. i'm going to get you. i had her hair. like this and she had my hair and i was on top of her. >> i just yanked baker off there to break them up. they were on the floor. told her to quit resisting.
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she said the only way she was leaving was going to seg. it's where she went. >> the girl is crazy. she needs medication. >> it seems as though she wanted to go to segregation. turns out she did because her best friend was also in segregation. >> i'm like if i'm moving, i might as well fight her and go to seg. i knew michelle was down there. i would rather go somewhere where i know somebody. she encourages me to do well. i listen to her. i don't listen to nobody but her. >> the one hour she is allowed outside her cell, she could visit with wise but wise returned to general population. >> ready to go, baker? >> yes, sir. >> now it's time for baker to return to general population as well. she's going to housing unit f-22, not f-20, where michelle wise was assigned. >> why the sour face when i told
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you you were going to 22? coming up -- back in general population, trenity baker works the system and another inmate to get the housing assignment she wants. >> i guess she did what she had to do to get where she needed to. >> my best lawyer is me right now. >> the poore brothers face the judge and each other. for all those who sleep too hot or too cool,
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♪ the tulsa county jail is a few miles from the courthouses where many inmates will eventually be taken to resolve their cases. to save time and resources, routine matters such as arraignments, the proceedings where inmates are read their charges, take place in the jail through a video link to the courts. >> see you back here on the fourth. good luck. >> three days after being charged with the murders of four women inside a tult satisfy apartment, james and cedric
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poore will have their arrai arraignments today. it is the first time they will have seen each other since they were charged. >> cedric poore. good morning, mr. poore. >> cedric was out of prison several months prior to being charged to the homicide. he had served nearly 17 years for armed robly after holding up the customers in a tulsa strip club. >> i wanted to work like the jeffersons, but live like donald trump. it wasn't worth it. nevertheless, i did it. i suffered the consequences of doing it. >> probable cause found. detention of four charges of murder in the first degree. three charges of robbery with a firearm. on the murder charges being held without bond. >> now facing charges that could result in the death penalty cedric can in the afford an
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attorney. >> my best attorney right now is me right now. i can read. i can write. it don't take much for me to learn. >> a public defender to represent you on the case. good luck. james poore. good morning, mr. poore. i believe you are represented by cathy frye, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> unlike cedric whose public defender is likely carrying a heavy load, james poore hired a private defense attorney. >> miss frye has been in this morning. not guilty plea entered on your behalf. good luck. >> thank you. >> after the arraignment, the two brothers try to talk. an officer notices the exchange and separates them. >> did that go the way you thought? >> i didn't know nothing about no attorney. how is his court process is moving quicker than mine. >> you tried to talk after you were arraigned.
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>> how did you get an attorney? how were you able to afford an attorney? i'm scrambling to get an attorney myself. >> you gonna be cool? >> i don't know if i'm going to be cool or not. >> it never hurts to shed a tear, especially when you're a man of deep feelings. catch up, catch up. >> on the advice of his new attorney, james declined to discuss the case any further. as he is led to a single person segregation cell, cedric has much to say. for awhile, i was standing by the cold, believing that as long as i don't talk, as long as i don't snitch, i'll be all right. there's no way in hell my brother would throw me under the bus, so to speak. now, i don't say it with great
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pride, trust me, i don't say it with great pride at all that i have to do what's best for me and mine. so, i got to start talking, you know, to save my own ass. >> when you say you have to talk, what does that mean? >> tell them everything i know. >> that indicates to me you have awareness of this crime? >> yes, i do. i have awareness of the crime, yes, i do. >> how did you come about this awareness? >> it was handed to me. by both, two of the three perpetrators that did the crime. >> who were the two of the three? >> i'd rather not say. right now. do i got anything to do with the crime? no, i do not. did i kill anyone? no, i did not. only one person that's implicated my name in this crime. unfortunately, that's my brother.
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you know, you have an attorney when you could have gave me indication or something about it. i mean, makes it seem as though you are trying to push everything into my direction. no. it's not going to happen that way. this is my brother putting me at the scene of a quadruple murder. armed robbery now, it's going to turn out to be brother against brother. coming up -- >> cedric poore. >> cedric poore gets a visit from the woman who might help prove his innocence and -- >> was one of those situations where i didn't want to take him but i knew i had to. >> richard roberts sculptures wind up in the hands of authorities. stick with power. stick with technology. get the flexcare platinum. new from philips sonicare.
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breaking news, world leaders in geneva reached a deal on iran's nuclear program. the finer points have been
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hammered out in just the last few hours. foreign ministers from iran and six other nations working out the deal for the last few weeks. secretary of state john kerry flew to the swiss capital just yesterday to join in these discussions. ann curry, nbc news correspondent on the phone where this is being hashed out, she has the latest. >> hi. nice to talk to you. this deal has been reached in gentlemen ne vashgs historic breakthrough in the world's decade-long nuclear standoff with iran and in the 35-year diplomatic freeze between iran and the united states. this deal, which has yet to be signed, was struck with aston ishg speed given the history of failed negotiations coming in just the third round of talks in less than two months and less than three months after iran's new president rahani promised to dramatically alter iran's a relationship with the world. as you mingsed iran and six of the world's powers that includes
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the united states, france, britain, germany, china and russia, agreed on a first step deal which is meant to limit advancements in iran's nuclear program in exchange for easing some of the economic sanctions that have deeply hurt iran's economy. all six world powers have sent in their foreign ministers hours before the deal was announced and several purposely gave the impression it was their participation needed to carry the ball across the finish line. the ministers worked late into the night, it was a marathon pace, it did not end until nearly 3:00 in the morning, local time here in geneva a store the time ago. we're awaiting a news conference when all is to be made official. this is presumably after the deal is signed. this first step deal is currently set to last for a period of about six months. it has set off a massive sense of relief here on all sides. it is expected to make iran less capable of building a nuclear
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bomb for the time being while at the same time, easing the financial pain iran's economy has been enduring under the sanctions. and perhaps most significantly, it also makes a final comprehensive nuclear agreement between iran and the world suddenly much more possible. now, we don't have a lot of details of the first step deal at this writing, it's a closely guarded secret. subject to speculation and there has been a lot of erroneous and conflicting reporting about this there is however, no doubt the sticking points included iran's insistence that it has a right to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes and also perhaps as problematic the tacked on proposal they stop production of heavy water facility in iraq, this is araq, a place in iran. the facility needed to create medical isoto pshg es f-- isoto
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f for cancer treatment. we expect to hear details soon, however they'll resolve will influence the expected pli cal fallout in the united states and in iran as you know members sts congress are threatening new sanctions and hard liners in iran have harshly accusing the president of iran and his foreign minister of giving up far too much in the negotiations. in fact, as i speak, there is a sense of national pride that has been apparently driving even a backlash among moderates and liberals in iran who have been afraid that iranian negotiators are giving away too much in the deal. but what is very clear despite all of the concern is that both sides, the united states, primarily and iran, have wanted to make this deal. this is remarkable that this first step deal has announced -- is being announced today because it was virtually inconceivable
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before president rahani's dramatic phone call conversation with president obama last september. we can confirm that the deal has been struck from the foreign minister and also several key spokespeople and also a thumbs up from the foreign minister, so, there is a deal to repeat, we do not know the details. it is a first step deal they hope of a final comprehensive agreement and it has been struck with astonishing speed. >> ann, there is a lot of questions here and i think one that a lot of us will be wondering about, what will the reaction be from elsewhere in the international community, especially israel? >> well, israel, as you know, the prime minister netanyahu has been voicing increasingly a loud and angry objections and that
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has had a negative impact on u.s./israeli relations, apparently so and also, there are also is expected to be an impact on u.s. relations in saudi arabia, a sunni nation, and apparently threatened by signs of improved relations with shia iran. any final come pprehensive agreement is expected to have political and economic implications throughout the middle east, changing the landscape, give than iran has oil reserves and to end the sanctions would presumably unblock billions of dollars, for iran. so, there will be vast implications and i think it's impossible to fully understand the impact of a final comprehensive deal. this initial first step deal will certainly set off a lot of
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backlash and political fallout all across the board. >> all right, ann curry, i'm sure we'll talk to you very soon. the president is expected to speak 10:15 eastern time on the issue. once again, nbc news has learned that a confirmed -- iran and six other nations have agreed to a deal on iran's nuclear program. more to come. right now, back to our program. avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive" sales event is back. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on any new 2014 volkswagen. hurry, this offer ends december 2nd. for details, visit vwdealer.com today of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®.
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there is 2001 inmate who says incarceration exposed a hidden talent.
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>> everybody looks up to me because of my soap sculpturing. it gives them something to admire. they all appreciate it. >> richard roberts says it was an earlier stay at tulsa county that led him to discover the incredible things he could do with the discarded shards of soap. now, other inmates contribute to the raw material. >> i get deliveries in my window sill or under my door. a guy brought me a bag of broken up soap. everybody contributes. >> but his roberts sculptures were confiscated. >> that is a very talented man. he is extremely talented. it was one of those situations where i didn't want to take them. i knew for the betterment of the facility i had to. >> because i took soap out of the shower off the floor that was garbage and made something beautiful, i was penalized for it. >> i explained what the problem was, of it being an unsanitary situation. he really didn't quite get it.
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>> the confiscation of contraband is routine at the jail. robert's case is brought to the attention of the woman who runs the facility, chief deputy michelle robinette. >> he had an elephant sculpture with the big ears, tusks, was phenomenal. phenomenal. i wish they could use those talents for something other than soap sculptures in jail. >> the staff followed policy and confiscated the sculptures. but all is not lost. the chief put them on display. >> i moved them down to the library where my programs manager is. we are gearing towards an art program. we have so many programs right now that talk about life skills and getting your g.e.d. and all the bible studies and the church programs, but we don't yet have something geared toward the creativity of the individual inmate.
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so, she's putting together an art program because that shows everybody that they can do something positive while they are in jail. if we can have one person leave this jail better than what they came and give them a skill or a tool to use when they leave so they can get a job that may affect their coming back, that one is a success. >> in robert's hopes, he might be the jail's next success. >> is that it? >> that's it. >> he entered a guilty plea. on his charges of do domestic assault and battery and larceny. the judge gave him a suspended sentence of 18 months plus time served. today, roberts will be released and have a chance to make it on the outside. >> one moment you are tied, you are locked, shackled, then one moment all of a sudden the chains are gone and now you just ready to fly away.
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>> cedric poore says he looks forward to a release date as well. that's not likely to occur anytime soon. he and his brother james are charged with the execution style murder of four white women. before he stopped speaking to us, james said he feared race would affect the trial. >> didn't think there would be a fair shake. we're in oklahoma. four while the women got killed. me and my brother, two black gentlemen with prison records. i mean you do the math. >> cedric says, if nothing else, he can prove he's not a racist. his wife of five months just arrived for a visit. >> you here to see -- >> cedric poore. j-11. >> cedric poore for a noncontact, please. >> i'm waiting for her to come through.
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>> what do these visits do for you? >> keep me motivated, keep me going. keep my spirits up. get me to think about everything besides these four walls. >> hey, handsome. >> how you doing in. >> good, how are you? >> cedric is very family oriented. he's quiet, if you don't know him. not racist. yeah. the media is portraying him to be racist. obviously, i'm his wife, i'm white, his best friends are white. he's not racist. >> i miss you. >> i miss you, too. >> i don't know if they know he's married to a white lady. surprise. >> i want to touch. >> i know. anxious. >> this glass is killing me. >> frustrated. >> that will work, too. that will work, too. that's the closest we can get baby, for now. >> i know. >> when i learned he had been arrested and charged, i actually had to pull over and vomit on
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the side of the highway. my world has changed in every aspect. i have received threatening texts on my phone telling me to do the world a favor, put a gun to my mouth and pull the trigger. i love you. >> i love you, too, baby. >> i love you more. >> can't, it's not possible. >> yeah, it is. >> it's not. >> we'll just say we are even. he was very close to both my kids. he taught my 15-year-old to drive. he's not going to be here when she gets her drivers license. i'm going to get upset, sorry. >> what have you told your children? >> not to believe what they see on the news. i wouldn't be with someone that
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could do something like that. >> how you doing out there, emotionally? >> i'm okay. >> no more roller coasters? >> always going to be a roller coaster with you in here. i'm handling the roller coaster better. >> you at the controls now? >> yeah. >> that's what i'm talking about. all gas and no brake. take me up the hill, baby. >> yeah. >> all gas, no brake. >> sorry. i wish i could fix it. >> i wish we both could fix it. it will be all right. you fixing it right now, you here. rain, sleet or snow, so you fixing it. it will be just fine. >> i believe my loyalty and commitment to him has been shown and he realizes that he chose the right person to marry because i am willing to be with him through thick and thin, good and bad, till death do us part. >> kiss. >> love you. >> love you, too. >> one more. >> see you. >> love you. >> love you, too.
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bye. get a sense of calm when you know you have somebody there for you all the time. now, this is like the ultimate test. she's like front and center. she don't care. she's right here. i'm a little bit lighter because anything i have going through my mind or the doubts i have running through my heart at times, all that gets taken away. coming up -- >> let's get ahold of the chaplain. >> a phone call brings tragic news for a tulsa county inmate.
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inside the tulsa county jail, michelle wise hopes her latest drug conviction is her last. she's due to leave jail to serve five years in prison. she said her goal this time was to overcome her addiction and become a better mother to her three children, including the
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2-month-old son she gave birth to while incarcerated. her son has been in the care of her brother. >> is one of my officers up there? we have an issue. >> now sergeant collette received tragic news. last name wise, w-i-s-e. first name michelle. she doesn't know or maybe she does know, i don't believe she does, that her child died. the baby was, i believe, 2 months old. let's get ahold of chaplain to see if he's aware of that and rehouse her in medical, if we can. all right, thank you. bye-bye. >> so, sergeant, what is that about? >> if she doesn't know the child has died, i want to make sure the chaplain's office knows. i sent an officer to go there and make sure they are aware her child did die.
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then i have her going to mental health department. we have a person on staff right now, make contact with them so they are available to her and talk to her. at the very least, i want her to move to medical where they can keep a closer eye on her. the jail chaplain delivered the devastating news. it was almost one month later before wise was willing to discuss her son with us. >> my son stopped breathing. my brother found him unresponsive in his crib. and, i don't know. >> his death was attributed to s.i.d.s., sudden infant death syndrome. >> i didn't believe it at first, i thought it was a sick joke. i just, i didn't believe it. i don't know. i mean, you know, i got three
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days with him in the hospital. my life has been so messed up because of my drug addiction and because of my choices and my mistakes since i turned 18. i have two other children that i lost due to my drug addiction. this was going to be a chance that i was going to have to change. to be different, to have my son, to be a mother to my child. that's why this is so much harder because all of me, every bit of me wanted to change. that last day was the hardest when i had to say good-bye because i didn't know how long i was going to, you know, i didn't know how long it would be before i could see him again or hold him or smell him. now i can't hold him or smell
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him or see him. >> jail officials permitted wise to attend her son's funeral. >> i remember him being warm and soft and holdable. not in that casket and being cold and stiff. but, i don't regret, i'm glad i went. i probably would have regretted not going. >> wise, who no longer has a relationship with her son's father last saw her brother at the funeral. she's not been able to reach him since then. he got two full months with him and now my brother is nowhere. my baby is dead and he's gone. i don't have my baby and i don't have my brother. it's -- i don't understand how he can't. i know he's grieving. my son is gone and my brother is gone. it's like [ bleep ] i'm here by myself and i need my brother or
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my baby, one of the two. >> is there someone here you can talk to? >> i don't want to talk to people. i just want people to leave me alone. i go to all my classes at nighttime. i lay in bed and i have all kind of bad thoughts. >> normally, wise would have had her best friend and her brother's girlfriend, trenty baker to speak to, but baker was transferred to prison two weeks earlier. >> it was so sad watching her go. a crying battle. she was a really good support for me, you know. i would like to think i was for her, too. it was sad watching her walk out. >> let's go to the chapel. >> today, wise will have someone to speak to, her brother. chaplain farnam arranged for them to have a contact visit. >> he agreed to come at 10:00. he may be running late.
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>> is it past 10:00? >> yeah. >> a short time later, it's apparent her brother had not made it to the visit. >> i just want to see him. >> i know. we are going to work on you seeing him, even if you don't see it today. the problem is, he's running through the same processes as you. you know the other day on the phone you told him it isn't his fault. you talked to him about that. you telling him that and him coming to the belief of that is two different things, you realize that, don't you? >> yeah. >> remember you questioned the other day, was it something you did prior to your child being born? you questioned all that. david is going through the same things. he's questioning, is it something i did? could i have done it different or better? until he settles those questions in his mind, as much as he knows you love him, it's hard for him to come see you.
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for that reason. there's two reasons he might not have made it. he might not know what to say yet. i know that doesn't help your feelings any because you want to see him. >> it makes me angry. >> yeah. it's fine to be angry. all we can do is try. we can't make him come. >> i know that. >> she really wants to see her brother, michelle does. she has no answers yet. she's hoping by seeing her brother, she can get answers. most of all, she feels for her brother and wants him to know she cares for him, loves him, doesn't blame him and that's what she wants him to know. ♪
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due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. i can be your best friend, at the same time, if you cross me and doing me wrong, i can be your worst enemy. >> he comes to terms with his past and present. >> i'm sure i heard that last time. >> beat up bloody and beat up on grandville

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