hello, disrupters. i'm karen tfinney. no doubt in the week ahead we'll see more proof that even when the president and the administration lead a process for a nuclear free iran, it just ain't good enough for the gop. >> speaking of game changers, disrupters. >> a major diplomatic breakthrough. >> we have halted the progress of the iranian nuclear program. >> this is the first diplomatic breakthrough with iran. >> we caught off iran's most likely path to a bomb. >> i think it's a huge deal in the middle east. >> israel will be safer. the region will be safer. >> this agreement has made the world a much more dangerous place. >> this interim deal is a good deal. >> that strikes me as a terrible

deal. >> there's going to be bipartisan concern about this deal. >> we made it very clear we will not tolerate iran having a nuclear weapon. >> we led them out of the trap. >> that old beach boys song, bomb iran. >> what you have here is an opportunity to avert a war. >> these sanctions have, indeed, hurt the iranian people very, very much. >> the united states of america will do our part on behalf of a world of greater peace, security and cooperation among nations. after months of secret diplomacy followed by high level international talks, president obama made a rare saturday night appearance to announce what just days ago seemed out of reach. a first step deal to stop iran's march toward a nuclear weapon. >> today, that diplomacy opened up a new path toward a world that is more secure.

a future in which we can verify that iran's nuclear program is peaceful and that it cannot build a nuclear weapon. >> for the latest on what many are calling a historic breakthrough in relations between iran and the international community, we turn now to nbc's ayman muhadin. i want to start with reaction from the region and how angry are you sensing the israelis are at this deal? >> well, the israeli leadership has not been hiding its feelings at all. in fact, the prime minister you heard in the introduction was saying the world is more dangerous today as a result of this deal. other israeli leaders, senior leaders, including in the defense establishments and elsewhere expressed a tremendous amount of skepticism and criticized the deal. some have gone so far as to say

israel reserves the right to keep all options on the table. a veiled threat it could consider a military operation against iranian nuclear facilities. israel as a political leadership has been very critical. there are those within israel, perhaps a good indicator, the israeli economy. today the market in israel rallied behind the news this deal had been struck. that's one positive indicator. but a lot of israeli policy experts and others have come out and said this not a bad deal. this is a very good deal. it gives the u.s. and israel more time. and more importantly it is not the final agreement, but at least could begin to pave the way. >> to that point, it strikes me that part of what we're seeing and hearing here is the difference between sort of policymakers who talk about the deal versus the politics of what the prime minister has to do to keep the pressure on. that seems like we will be hearing statements like that from other leaders throughout the region. >> that's correct. absolutely right. in fact, it's not yus the

israelis that are expressing their reservations about this deal. some of the u.s.'s closest arab allies including saudi arabia have also been somewhat reserved about this deal between the united states and iran over this nuclear deal. obviously there are a lot of geopolitical tensions between iran and some of its allies in the region. and saudi arabia and the united arab emirates. so this is shaping up to be a very challenging moment for the united states in the region because of the fact that it is, if you will, fracturing some alliances, but also making some strange bedfellows with countries that are seeing this as a new chapter for the region, if you will. >> let's talk a little about what's in the deal. can you give us the broad strokes? >> sure. from the perspective of the united states and the permanent members of the security council and germany, they now have at least, perhaps, the most important point is almost unfettered access to inspect

iran's nuclear facilities. they also have a complete halt to iran enriching its uranium and a suspension of the development of centrifuges. for the iranian regime, they are going to have a short term alleviation of some of the sanctions that have crippled that economy. they will not have a complete lifting of the sanctions, but they will be able to at least have a short-term easement of the punishment that has been put on that economy. so it does not necessarily, depending on who you ask, fulfill every side's desires. but without a doubt, both sides are spinning this or claiming that they are coming out of this better off. the iranian government today came out and said what they want out of this deal, what they were able to gain, was the international community's legitimacy in iran's right to enrich uranium. that has been a central point for the iranian government. that they have the right to enrich uranium.

they interpreted this deal yesterday to mean that they now have that blessing from the international community. >> just very briefly, i know it seems the white house is really moving on three tracks. track one the sort of 20% uranium stockpile. track two is the 3.5% uranium stockpile. and advanced centrifuges. the third track is plutonium enrichment. they've really broken it down into three different parts in terms of how they are viewing this deal and what the requirements are moving forward. >> absolutely. you know, there was a big part of this deal that was very, very technical. and one of the issues of the iranian nuclear program over the course of the last several years hacked a deal with the technical capability of the iranian nuclear program. more importantly, that is why this deal took so long. it wasn't just about broad strokes. it was about very nitty-gritty details about what iran can and cannot do with its centrifuges, with its uranium, with its

ability to enrich that uranium. that is why it took longer than expected, perhaps. but also why this is such a historic first step in the eyes of many, that they were able to actually address so many of these very specific issues. >> okay, thank you, ayman mu held dean. even before president obama stepped to the podium to announce the deal with iranian, the haterade was flowing. at 6:08 p.m. former george w. bush press secretary ari fleesher. you can't spell abandonment without obama. at 7:09 p.m. lindsey graham tweeted unless the agreement requires dismantling of the iranian sent tcentrifuges, we h gained anything. john cornyn tweeted, amazing what white house will do to distract attention from o-care. all right. let's get a couple things straight here.

first, both graham and cornyn are facing very difficult tea party primary threats. second, while many in the gop have waited -- have long wanted to bomb iran, as you heard earlier in the opening, and start a war, it was president obama who said in 2008 that america should lead a process of reining in nuclear weapons slowly. joining me to talk about the politics, "washington post" opinion writer dana milbank and msnbc contributor james peterson. thank yo thanks to you both for joining me. dana, i want to start with you. already there are suggestions maybe this is some kind of distraction from obama care. when we learned from the associated press that actually these talks began a very long time, in fact, something that the president said he wanted to be a priority right after he became president. >> yeah. well, from the point of view of the republican critics, this deal has one very important flaw in it. that is it was negotiated by the obama administration.

>> right. >> so, i mean, it doesn't matter. the president could come out with some statement in favor of motherhood and apple pie and the republicans are going to be opposed to it. so i think the fact that they're opposed to it, the fact they were opposed to it before seeing the nature of the deal indicates all you need to know. but it is a reflective opposition. and sort of silly in this case since they're actually talking about a very short-term reversible agreement. so how can you possibly get so exorcised about it? you have to pass more sanctions. go ahead. pass more sanctions. they'll take effect in six months if this thing doesn't work. >> interestingly enough, this argument about more sanctions, dr. peterson, we know that in -- i believe it's 2003, the number of centrifuges was something like 600. and that now we're talking about thousands. so tougher sanctions wouldn't necessarily, you know, be the answer. it hasn't so far been the

answer. >> it hasn't. i mean, some of the critics would say that sanctions is what kind of got them to the table here. but, remember, we all know, a very complicated situation. if you think about a conservative government in israel, we have essentially military rule in egypt. you have sunni/shia tensions emerging in iraq. it's important that our relationship with iran becomes something different than it has been if you think about afghanistan, pakistan. it's a complex situation. i don't think the american people are going to be distracted by this. i also don't think the president nor secretary kerry are going to do a victory lap. this is part of a process. it's a six-month kind of, sort of process. we'll see what happens after that. but it's a very complex political situation. i think the president is doing like he said he was going to do. to be honest with you, anything that's moving more towards peace, at least trying to move towards peace in the region around the world i think is an important step. >> i was always taught peace was

a good thing. clearly that's not in the republican talking points. i want to play for you, you know, some sound. i do think, dana, one of the things that's very important about this deal is it is something that the administration has been working on for quite some time. but also it is something that president obama himself as senator and as candidate actually talked about in terms of nuclear proliferation and the threat of nuclear weapons. i want to play a little bit of sound. because at one point people made a little fun of him for talking like that. >> the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them is ridiculous. >> i have consistently said that we've got to talk directly to iran. >> the united states will do what we must to prevent iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. >> these are substantial limitations which will help prevent iran from building a nuclear weapon. simply put, they cut off iran's most likely path to a bomb. >> i mean, you know, president obama does deserve some credit for having tried to put this

issue on the table front and center and talk about it. >> right. in a way, what he was talking about earlier, maybe it was premature and impossible. maybe it required the elections in iran to give them this opening. but he was ready for that opening when it came. now for it to be -- to have said that this is a distraction to take the topic away from obama care, usually a president is accused of launching a war to distract from -- >> wasn't there one who did that? >> yes. absolutely. this is what happened with bosnia and bill clinton. i think this is the first time they've accused a president of not making a war to distract from domestic troubles. >> again, somehow that's a bad thing because it might get us towards peace. if you kind of twist your brain in the republican thinking. james, the thing on this, too, they have been so attacking the president's credibility. honest and trustworthinestrustw. they have really been going after that hard around the health care rollout.

again, i guess one of the things that i think is clearly not going to make them very happy is that this is another promise kept by president obama. >> it is. and, i mean, one of the things that this deal has in common with obama care is that the principles of it are consistent with the kind of principles of republican foreign affairs over the long haul. remember, the only reason why the bush administration didn't engage, they actually felt like the iran regime was going to collapse under the weight of those sanctions. and obviously there were a lot of hawks in that administration that were pushing more for a war stance with iran. but the principles here of negotiating, of making sure iran does not have a nuclear weapon, it's something that in principle all republicans would agree with. just like obama care, the fact president obama is doing it means we've got to play politics. >> dana, last question to you. i want to kind of bring this back to what we saw happening this week in terms of the nuclear option and the way we're going to be moving forward. and i know you were critical of the decision. but i guess, you know, even just

the reaction to this announcement seems to be one more piece of evidence that, you know, this republican party is not interested in doing the business of the country. and that, you know, reid really felt like he had just -- this was the last option he had at his disposal. >> right. i'm sympathetic to that position. if you look around, basically, this republican party has used the levers of the minority party in the senate to bring government to a halt. reid would reach the conclusion that it couldn't get any worse than this. maybe that's true. but i do have a feeling that it actually could get worse than this. that is that the senate could start to act just like the house. and we see what an ineffective institution that is. just when you think it couldn't get any worse, i'm concerned that it is, indeed, possible to make it worse. >> i am hoping that the men and women of the senate can behave themselves. i'm not optimistic. but i'm going to put the hope out there. >> nice thanksgiving week. >> there you go.

james peterson and dana milbank, thank you so much. coming up, the war on workers and the living wage takes on a new front as america's biggest retailer is waging a war on thanksgiving. but up next, we're going to break down the ridiculous idea that first lady michelle obama is a feminist nightmare. stay with us. ♪

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you know, it is 2013. i'm still wondering, when are women going to stop attacking each other for the choices that we make? the feminist mother that i grew up with taught me that i could do anything i wanted and not to let anyone tell me otherwise. because it was my choice to decide how i wanted to live my life. but rather than support each

other's life choices and keep up the fight to expand options for women, some have decided there should be specific rules about what a woman can choose to do with her life. who's a good feminist. who's a bad one. if you're not a feminist does that make you just bad or an unsupportive woman? for example, if you're a woman with an advanced degree in a career, apparently you have no business staying home to raise your children. all these rules do is push us back into the very same boxes and stereotypes we've been working so long to get away from. this week political columnist michelle coddles wrote a wildly offensive article in politico magazine criticizing the first lady and calling her, quote, a feminist nightmare. describing some of her most notable projects as, quote, safely, soothingly domestic causes. ending chidehood obesity and pushing for gun control reform. according to coddles the issues the first lady has taken up during her five years in the white house are not, quote, worthy of a harvard educated

african-american woman. that raises another element to the story. coddles piece never acknowledges that the world is a very different place for black and brown women who face an additional range of negative stereotypes and boxes. and as one of my guests points out in her book, too many media narratives depict us as angry, aggressive, controlling, emasculating, physically unhealthy or hypersexualized. first lady michelle obama is literally changing those stereotypes every day. and issues like childhood obesity, speaking to young people and talking about gun violence are not safely, soothingly domestic causes. they're actually important issues that deserve the time and attention not only of the first lady but the entire nation. joining me now, msnbc political analyst and editor at large of salon.com, joan walsh. and sophia nelson, "black woman redefined: dispelling myth in the age of michelle obama."

thanks to you both for being with me. i know we're all raring to go on this one. i want to start with you, joan. this idea of -- what bothered me so much is, what is feminism? how is it that michelle coddles and the people quoted in her story get to define feminism, when i thought the whole point was we're supposed to have choices? >> well, yeah. and, you know, i've got a few feminist nightmares for you, karen. if you want to talk feminist nightmares. three of us could talk about them all hour. texas, abortion rights. it's kind of a nightmare for a lot of women. food stamp cuts. food stamps are primarily received by women. that's kind of a nightmare for women. this idea that michelle obama, there's something in particular she owes the feminist community and that she's a nightmare, this is not an analysis i'm familiar with in my particular feminist community. and i think it's also troubling, you know, as a white woman. i think so often we fail to

understand the different ways that women of color and white women come to feminism. the idea that it's a choice, it's a great choice for michelle obama to choose to be mom in chief. to stay home with her children and raise her children rather than raising my children or raising someone else's children, this is an advance for black women. this is something that white feminists, we've stumbled on this issue before. some of us work really hard to try to get it. it's hard to see it not really even grappled with in this piece. >> sophia, you obviously talk about it quite a bit in your book. i mean, i just -- i can barely say how offensive i thought this piece was. but i want to read something from your book because i just thought it was so birilliant an well said. in the opening of your book you say, dear mrs. obama. do you have any idea what you mean to us? by us i mean strong, independent, accomplished black women of america. you humanize us. you soften us. you make us invisible no more. you make us approachable,

feminine, sexy, warm, compassionate, smart, affirmed, accomplished and fun filled all at once. you're very nature most emphatically answers sojourne truth's 160-year-old question, ain't i a woman, too? yes, you are a woman, too. we talk about how we redefine ourselves in the era of michelle obama. i just felt like, again, the construct of this piece that michelle coddles writes really puts her in a box i don't think any woman should be in. >> first of all, let me say, karen. your opening was outstanding. joan, you stole my thunder, sister. you talked about what i was going to talk about. on a serious note, i think michelle obama is doing something very important. i think she's teaching young women and women of our generation, gen xers and even baby boomers, that life is about integration. i always thought feminism was about choices.

making choices for your life. what this first lady is simply doing is saying for this season of my life, i'm choosing to take on a more domestic role as first lady of the united states. i have two tween daughters at home. i have a husband that has a pretty busy life. i have to entertain. i have to be responsible for charities. dealing with the military. working on causes. that's a pretty full schedule. i can't imagine that any first lady could practice law full time or do the things that a career, a full-time career would demand of you. so i think michelle coddles' piece was very unfair to say some of the things that it said. now, on the flip side, let me say this. i think all of us, particularly me as a black woman, karen, yes. would i love to see mrs. obama go out and talk about the images of black women and talk about the housewives and the basketball wives and how terrible they are and the things that they're doing to the image of black women in the 21st century? i would. but she's not going to do that. and i think there are good reasons for that. this first lady has had to defend herself at least three times by my count since she took

office by being called an angry black woman. >> that's right. >> have you ever seen her angry once? even close? yet she still has to defend herself. joan, you hit the nail on the head. sometimes our white sisters don't understand that the struggle for us as black women dating back to the suffragist movement in this country and feminist movement of the '60s and '70s, black women felt left out then. we still feel left out now often in the dialogue. >> sophia, as a follow-up to that it strikes me that just the very way she is conducting herself is setting an example for young women. i felt like michelle coddle, you know, joan, also just completely missed the fact that having a woman like that with so much grace and so much talent and, you know, again, integrating, as you said, so many different parts of her life, that in and of itself is such a powerful message to young women. >> it is. and i think, though, that what's important here, look, i think joan said this again. feminism, it's a broad definition.

gloria steinem said something fabulous the other day about -- i won't get the quote right. her basic gist was, look, we taught our daughters how to have careers and be successful and how to do all these great things. we should likely teach our sons -- maybe sons want to stay home when they grow up and take care of the kids for a while. maybe they want to take time with their families. i think we've come to this place where we're learning how to integrate our lives better so we can do all the things we want to do. michelle obama is the most fabulous role model that black women in the 21st century could ever have. all women. but certainly black women at a time when, sadly, we are still depicted in ways that just aren't very healthy and very functional. they're not good. >> you know, joan, the other thing i really took issue with is the idea that working on obesity and childhood obesity is a prfrivolous issue. according to the cdc a quarter of 2 to 5-year-olds and one-third of school age children including adolescents are overweight in the united states. 30% of low income preschoolers are overweight or obese.

we know this is a real problem. when you're overweight and obese as a young person, you are more likely to have health issues and problems later in life. >> right. >> to suggest that that's not a real issue. >> again, it misunderstands politics and also misunderstands these issues in the black community. she's not saying it's a black issue. it's not just a black issue by any means. it has resonance. it has meaning. talking about movement. talking about your body. claiming your body image. talking about nutrition. making sure people really educate themselves and their families about what's in their food. all of that, the garden. there are people -- having that garden is a political act. it's controversial, you know. rush limbaugh makes fun of her for her food crusade. these are not entirely safe issues. to the extent that she, you know, was so berated with so much ugliness in the 2008 campaign, we all remember it.

the idea -- i mean, this article does -- it nods to the fact that, well, yes, some say there's the problem of being considered an angry black woman. but i don't think that she really, again, grapples with all of the ways that that does limit michelle obama and how amazingly, in my opinion, she's really handled it all. >> i completely agree. we have to leave it there. i have to say, having worked for a first lady, hillary clinton, when she was first lady, it is a very tough role. it is tough to raise children in the white house. it is tough given all the expectations that are put on you as a woman about what you should be, what you shouldn't be. i just feel like every woman's got to do what's right for her. make the role her own. i think michelle obama has done that. my thanks to joan walsh and sophia nelson for great conversation. coming up, there's a lot at stake for women at the state level. how you can protect your rights and your choices. [ male announcer ] with only minutes left before kickoff, thousands of tailgaters

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responsibility. what's your policy?

so thanksgiving is supposed to be the one holiday that all americans celebrate. the most american of american holidays. but this year, there's a war on thanksgiving that is impacting thousands of american workers. because as think progress and others have been reporting, shopping malls and retailers like best buy, target, k mart, toys r us, michael's, kohl's,

macy's, walmart, have all decided black friday should start on thanksgiving day. while the markets surged to new heights this week thanks to corporate profits, we continue to see measures aimed at curbing workers' rights and protections and denying workers a living wage. starting this summer we saw fast food workers courageously taking to the streets sounding the alarms on how poorly they're treated by employers who rake in big profits. just as we have seen state measures to increase minimum wage, there's a new activism holding employers to account. one of the workers who has to work on thanksgiving, and president of the alcio, richard trumpka. we'll talk about walmart in just a minute. mr. trumpka, i want to start with talking about the erosion of workers' rights. we saw it in wisconsin when we were talking about collective bargaining. i have to tell you, my mom used

to be in seiu. just the erosion of protection of workers' rights in this country has been stunning. >> it certainly has. it's been an owl out attack on workers a t the state level and federal level. courts have attacked our rights. states have attacked our rights. governors have attacked our rights. as a result you're seeing wages t stagnate over the last couple decades. >> there's a backlash obviously to having some of the malls open. but one of the things i find most interesting on this attack on thanksgiving, you know, both the workers, but also for a lot of people who are also low income, they need to shop on black friday because they need those, you know, discounts in order to do their shopping. >> well, that's the sorry thing about the country right now. we have an economy that's 72% driven by consumer spending. yet wages have been stagnated

over the last two, three decades. so if workers don't have money, they can't create demand. they can't create jobs. and the economy can't grow. you see them trying to get by in different ways. you have companies like walmart, who has 825,000 people who earn less than $25,000 a year who have an entire business market designed on low wage, low benefit employees. >> you know, i'll tell you one report that we filed suggested that, actually, retailers' thanksgiving plans don't really save the holiday season. one report says if history serves as any lesson, last year's thanksgiving rush and record black friday weekend sales didn't salvage what shaped up to be a disappointing holiday season. thanksgiving last year generated about $810 million in sales. as the day took the bite out of black friday sales which totalled $10 billion last year. clearly to your point, if people don't have money in their

pockets to spend, it's not like these retailers are going to be reaping greater benefits. i want to switch gears, anthony, talk about your experience with walmart. and just tell us a bit about your story. i know that you are -- you're working at walmart. but that obviously that is not enough to support your family. >> that's correct. i'm a husband and father. we just had a aby a couple weeks ago. my eighth. we have a newborn baby in the year. i make about $12,000 a year. i'm a part-time employee. one of the issues there, all across the country, throughout our organization, is wages that they pay us. they pay us poverty wages. even you see a full-time employee can also make poverty wages as well. >> can you tell us -- if you're not making enough -- congratulations on the baby. >> thank you. >> if you're not making enough from your walmart wages, what other things are you having to do in order to make up for that?

>> so there's other things that i find myself doing, you know, to put food on the table. just to put food on the table i find myself standing at food banks. just this month we qualified for food stamps. we got a little -- like, $300 of food stamps. i was able to buy the turkey for our thanksgiving meal. i'm not going to -- i'm not even going to be able to be there. i'll have to be at work. but i have to do things like participate in clinical trials. you know, to put food on the table. to put gas in our tank. i have to -- i have to do things like get payday loans. i don't live check to check. you know, a lot of people say they live check to check. i live loan to loan. i have to get a payday loan to pay off another payday loan in order to pay another payday loan. you know, all my checks is gone. by the time i get paid, all my

check is gone. you know, a lot of things. like i said, i'm always at food banks in our local area. i'm thankful, but, you know, i work for the world's largest retailer. that makes billions of dollars in profits. i don't think i should have to be doing any of that. >> i completely agree with you. mr. trumka, this is just infur rating. when we hear all of the rhetoric from the right about makers and takers and working people, here is someone who exemplifies exactly what we have been talking about in terms of having a living wage, living in america and not being able to make a wage that you can support a family on. >> this is from a company who earns $17 billion in profit last year. $17 billion. yet their workers are on public assistance, medicaid, food stamps. they tell them how to get free health care. that the rest of us subsidize

walmart because they won't pay these workers a decent wage. look, that's why the minimum wage needs to go up, karen. if the minimum wage had kept place with inflation, it would be $10.75. if it had kept pace with the productivity increases, it would be $18.75. if these workers got the same increases as the top 1% in the country, they would be earning $28 an hour right now. it's outrageous. this company uses a model of low wage, no benefit employees to make billions of dollars and lets the rest of us subsidize them for doing it. >> i think we all have our marching orders. the minimum thing we need to be doing is supporting an increase in the minimum wage. both at the state and federal level. happy thanksgiving to both of you. thank you, anthony goytia and richard trumka. next, our disrupter of the week. a diplomat who's always put

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♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy open red arthritis cap. we're not sitting here pretending that iran is suddenly going to turn over a new leaf. we have to prove it. >> and today we took a big step forward to proving it. a six month agreement with iran. the first time the country's accepted any limits on its nuclear program in almost a decade. at the melhhelm, secretary of s john kerry. for that effort, secretary of state john kerry is our disrupter of the week. when we come back, when you actually listen, and i do mean listen to their stories, you'll know once and for all why it's got to be an individual decision. it's that simple, and it's coming up. having triplets is such a blessing.

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as a result of harry reid's decision to go nuclear, the senate will finally be able to confirm the many judicial and executive branch nominees that gop obstructionisms have blocked. one of these nominees is nina pillar, an outspoken critic for women's reproduction rights who president obama nominated to the d.c. circuit court. it's an incredibly important post. the d.c. circuit court rules on decisions made by federal agent sis. the same court that rumed against the contraception mandate in the affordable care act earlier this month. on tuesday the supreme court -- go ahead on a restrictive law that shuts down a third of abortion facilities in the state. on the same day voters in albuquerque, new mexico, overwhelmingly defeated a measure to outlaw abortions after 20 weeks. it was the first time a municipality voted on the issue. it's an ominous sign of the

anti-choice strategy to go increasingly focus at the local level. liz winstead, author and co-creator of "the daily show." dina wieinstein. a mom who had an abortion after 20 weeks. i want to start with you, liz, talk about what you were doing monday night with sarah silverman helping to raise money, actually, for women in texas. >> when the ruling came down and the fifth circuit decided they were going to allow these draconian laws to go implemented, women's clinics all over texas had to call patients at 11:00 at night and say, we can't provide you with abortion care. a lot of those women were low income women. women that didn't have access. women that would have had to travel hundreds of miles and spend money on child care and hotels. sarah and i said, oh, my god. we have to raise money for these women. because, you know, getting health care in this country, it shouldn't matter where you live. it shouldn't have anything to do

with your zip code. >> or which parts you have. >> or which parts you have. we gathered as many women as possible as we could in 11 days and held this telethon for the women of texas. because they had been planning in texas for this. they have so much great implementati implementation. these women in texas are fabulous. they need cash. i don't need to help the women of texas with anything other than giving them cash for their already great hard work. >> i served on the board for naral pro-choice america, one of the coalition of groups. i've got a full screen. i want to point out. one of the things that's so important in this don vconversa dana, you know, we are seeing more and more things happening at the state level. with naral ballot initiatives, colorado, tennessee, north dakota, wisconsin. the point is, we've focused so much of the conversation at the federal level, but at the state and now local level, which is what i think albuquerque showed us, we really have to pay attention. because these measures are being

introduced in the legislatures. >> that's right. it is really upsetting as a woman and a mother who four years ago desperately needed the help of an abortion. and i live in a state that actually doesn't have tremendous restrictions. but in my case, for the -- as late as we were with our pregnancy, we had one option. that option was not in my state. it was across the country. we had to travel to colorado to get our help. >> dana, just to your story, one of the things i think is so important in this conversation is that, you know, the more we tell stories and liz and i were just talking about this. stories, i think, are the most effective way to change hearts and minds. when you take it to the level of a human being and a human experience, it's a very different conversation than the rhetoric we hear kind of flying around. i wonder if you would share your

story with us. >> absolutely. my husband and i were really excited to be expanding our family. we were pregnant with our second child. we had a 2-year-old son at the time. and our pregnancy, we thought, had been maturing perfectly normal. until we went in for a regular sonogram at 20 weeks. where the ventricles in our baby's brain were measured slightly elevated. we were sent for further testing. we had an mri to get a clear view of what was happening in our baby's brain. we were horrified when we saw that our baby was missing pieces of her brain. there were pockets that were significantly malformed and underdeveloped. basically, we learned that at 31 weeks, when we had this expanded testing, that our child was incompatible with life. our options were extremely limited. >> you know, liz, one of the things you and i have talked about, that was a hard decision to make. that was not an easy choice. and too often in the

conversation, when you hear, you know, the kinds of legitimate rape and other ridiculous comments that men like to make when they're talking about this issue, we don't have compassion for the fact that this is a hard decision to make. but it's got to be a decision that a woman makes on her own or with whoever she chooses to bring into that decision. >> right. you look at the case of dana. dana, your story is so touching and important. because the anomalies that dana's fetus developed, didn't develop until this time. and so that's why when we talk about this issue, there's so many things to talk about. that's why if you are looking at, like, texas, and in their department of education is saying, you know, maybe we don't want to, you know, focus on clients. in kansas there's a group of people who want to say teaching science is unconstitutional. literally. when you're not talking about the science and the developmental phases of what this means, you're negating the reality of abortion. then you're also negating the

stories. it's really just such a profoundly personal choice at the end of the day that i don't understand why people would want to interfere. >> yeah. well, i also think that, you know, part of the strategy is shame and blame. and blaming women rather than listening to stories like dana's and understanding that, hey, this was not an easy thing to do. this was not an easy decision. dana, thank you so much for your courage. thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. liz winstead, thank you so much for everything you're doing. >> i'm trying. >> appreciate it. that does it for me. thank you so much for joining us. please don't forget to share your thoughts. you can find us on facebook and tweet us @msnbcdisrupt. i'll see you right back here on saturday at 4:00 eastern. happy thanksgiving. [ woman 1 ] why do i cook?

to share with family. [ woman 2 ] to carry on traditions. [ woman 3 ] to come together

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in the halls of justice, they've seen it all. >> i thought this is the one that's going to run. >> from the unbelievable. >> just went down on all fours. tried to scramble away. >> to the shocking. >> oh, my god. >> courtroom deputies caught by surprise. >> he swung his body away, towarding me, swinging, making contact to my face. >> victims' families lashing out. >> i said to hell with it and i tried to reach him. >> even judges pushed too far. >> you shut your damn mouth, sir. >> action that lal