♪ [ male announcer ] laura's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. >> nelson mandela long walk to freedom took him right through the united states capitol. at the start of this saturday in december with much of the country locked in a deep freeze. we are thawing out this morning with questions ability some of the new things we've discovered. did you know as recently as five years ago, nelson mandela needed a special waiver just to travel in the united states. we're going to talk about why that was and why it took so long for that not to be the case anymore. there are also always things we know this week, from the wide ranging conversation with president obama, his frustration

and disappointment with congress, hills hope in the young people, political leaders of the future. we will talk about that later. progressive leaders are pushing back, fighting back against voices that want them to give in on things like cutting social security and medicare. there is no mistaking that this week. finally, we want everyone to know our weekly current events quiz show "up against the clock," moving to the second hour of our show. keep an hour out for that. new time clock. same '70s game show schmaltz we gen with this story of how this indelible image of nelson mandela being released from prison after three decades in captivity came about. president mandela is being rightly memorialized for his service to his country and advancing the cause of freedom around the world, the difficult period the long period the maddening political struggle

leading up to his release is the story that is not as widely told. part of it that i want to focus on this morning is the political debate that was taking place here in the u.s., what lessons should we be taking away from that? what lessons should we be taking away from that because the reception mandela received from washington wasn't leak the one that greeted him on his first trip to the capitol in june of 1990. >> members of the congress, it is my great privilege and i deem it a high honor and personal pleasure to present to you mr. nelson mandela, deputy president of the african national congr s congress. >> it was a news congress back in 1990, crowds of americans, black person americans, all sorts of americans turned out in

droves for the chance to be in the presence of, in the remote vicinity of men of rare courage, character and compassion. you probably heard of a bronx cheer. check out what happened when nelson mandela showed up at yankee stadium back then. >> you now know who i am. i am a yankee! [ cheers ] . >> and i don't even think a red sox fan would mind that. i speak as a red sox fan. you would never know, though, looking at that scene, for nelson mandela to be there at yankee stadium for him to stand on capitol hill and be hailed by democrats and republicans in congress. for that trip to the united states to happen back in 1990, nelson mandela had to receive a special waiver from the u.s. department of state. otherwise, he never would have been allowed in the country. that's because he was a member

of the anc the liberation movement that not apartheid in south africa for decades. movement that the white apartheid threw mandela in prison for being a part of, giving him a light sentence after releasing him after 27 years in captivity, even then, even in the summer of 1990, those first months after he had finally been let out of jail. even as south africa was finally starting to take those first frazzled steps away from apartheid in towards real genuine multi-racial draerks even then as nelson mandela was being hailed as a hero, all across the globe, the united states government officially considered him a member of a terrorist organization. they forced him to endure the endignitary of receiving a waiver of being told in effect, sure, come on in, we will give you some rewards, call you a hero. you are the revepgsception. the rest of the anc, we think they are terrorists.

it wasn't until 2008 that congress passed and president george w. bush, not his father, it wasn't until five years ago the u.s. government got around to signing legislation that he didn't need a waiver t.anc that governs south africa and has done so for two decades the designation of the anc as a terrorist group by the united states is a reminder sometimes our government, our political leaders, sometimes they get important things wrong. they get hugely important things very wrong. our country from the president to the mr. president, every day citizens right now our country is mourning the loss of mandela, remembering the life he lived the way he changed the world. our country in the western world wasn't always this united in viewing mandela as a hero. a part tied, apartness in the

africano language, they were voted into office in south africa in then 48. they set about passing a series of impressive laws of racial segregation. they western considered citizens. in 1960 when drarts went to the police station in the black town of sharpville and redanded to be arrested, they were protesting the node to have them in the first place. in response to that small act of rebellion, south african police officers opened fire on the crowd and scene people were killed that day. the young liberation leader named nelson mandela said it was that moment that radicalized him in the fight against apartheid, to beat the anc, it wouldn't be long before he was arrested and convicted of treason and sent away to prison for life. he recalls america and bren and across the west for governments to speak up, to use their power, their influence in a country

where the west had huge investments in mining interests. to use that influence to free him and fight apartheid. >> that didn't happen. years passed. decades passed. an international movement sprung to boycott business, to di vest from them. to impose, to try to get governments to impose formal sanctions on that regime. it took hold here in the united states in the 1980s a. young student in los angeles asked his school's administration to stop investing in south african companies. >> that student's name was barak obama. free mandela became a popular rallying cry. not everyone in america was on board with freeing mandela and fighting the apartheid regime a. bill was introduced in congress. the anti-apartheid act of 19 necks would require the complete withdrawal.

nelson mandela had been in prison for nearly a quarter century, for 24 hour years. apartheid had been the law of the land in south africa for 40 years and the bill did pass the house. it did pass the senate and then the president of the united states wouldn't put his signature on it. ronald reagan retoed the south african sanctions bill. >> night after night, week after week, television has brought us reports of violence by south african security forces bringing injury and death to peaceful demonstrators and innocent bystanders, more recently, we read of violent attacks by plaques against blacks. then there is the cal can ycula terror the mining of roads, bombings of public places, the imposition of marshall law and eventually creating the conditions for racial war. >> reagan was the biggest name

of american politics who were on the wrong side of history, but he wasn't the only one. 17 republicans and four democrats in the house voted to sustain reagan's veto of the sanctions bill a. republican from wyoming dick cheney was one of them. 27 republicans voted to sustain them. babcock ran of mississippi. there were plenty of votes. sanctions did go into effect. but for some on the right, nelson mandela remained a punching bag. >> we didn't meet with one representative of the african national congress. the anc. you know, bishop tutu's crowd which has orchestrated and financed by the soviet union. willie mandela, winnie mandela the wife of mandela has boasted we have the tears, we have the gasoline and we have the

matches. that's the way these folks orchestrated by the soviet union act and the new york times and the washington post and cbs and abc and nbc and the rest of the big media and a liberal politician, mr. kennedy and the rest that, i say we got to deal with these folk. we got to meet with them. i say, be loaloney. >> it's understandably maddening right now. you want to think back to all of that, how many leaders in this country dragged their feet and made excuses in the face of south africa's apartheid crisis. it's important to remember, because it wasn't that long ago. it was less than 30 years ago when the president and the united states knew all object apartheid, n nelson mandela's d, politicians were asking not only if apartheid was a serious problem but was it even

america's problem to worry about? the story of the demise of apartheid, with south africa's march is an inspireing one. it is a chilling one. why did it take the united states to get it right? did we, did our leaders, our political system? have we learned anything from that? are we learning anything right now as we watch, as we take part in a gloenl memorial to an icon who as recently as five years ago had to have a waiver if you wanted to set foot in this country. i want to bring in mia whily, sean jacobs, bonn and raised in apartheid south africa, he is a writer at the new school. pedro mcgary is a director of the metropolitan center for research at new york stiff and eleanor cliff, an editor with "the daily best." mia, i will start with you. it's sort of this universal memorial taking place in the

united states and everywhere around the world, totally deserved for nelson mandela, but i can't help but think how recent it was in history nelson mandela was a contested political figure. we were playing some of the clips in the intro. how do we get from the late 1980s, early 1980s, we have william f. buckley in 1990 saying this will be a day of infamy, maybe. how do we get from there to here? what's happened? >> part of what's happened is mandela, himself, was so effective in demonstrating he was a leader of peace and reconciliation. so the fact that people have stereotyped him into a particular type of violent, dangerous person, thanks, greatly to the propaganda of the apartheid regime, by the way, he was able to transform himself by his very acts. one of the quotes he gave one of my favorite is the courageous do not fear forgiveness for the

sake of pales. >> that really embodied his leadership. >> sean, take us back. i think for people who didn't live through and don't remember the political debate we outlined there, that took place in this country in sort of the reagan years ago how did that idea of nelson mandela is this, maybe he deserves to be in jail? maybe apartheid is more complicated than we think it is? maybe this isn't our fight? how prevalent was that. how did that view take hold among the american political class? >> i think what people forget is that american involve him was quite deep. ibm, ford company, coca-cola, kodak. so it was okay to do business in south africa. it was fine. linden johnson said he was one with the african regime. it was only nixon the same, it was only jimmy carter who said the united states is a different kind of engage. with countries like south africa, angola, et cetera.

reagan then pushed back. so you can imagine, reagan was very popular, you know, in sort of main stream opinion. they did engage in arms struggle. they were like non-violent. it's very difficult to sell that. the cold war is going on. you can use that as a bogey to say they support it. you can see by the clip, they support it by the soviet union. i think what happens here if i was watching it from outside, i water a teenager at the time. you are getting the word in the united states on college campuses the african-americans underestimate how hard it was to get people here to realize that this wasn't just struggle and a moral struggle through church groups had began to complain and point out these contra dictions, insisting on this economic angle. because what reagan did was to use the cold war as an alibi because south africa is important to us, by insisting

this isn't ability an economic interest, it meant a people eventually come around to that struggle. >> pedro, are you a veteran of that move him, that college campus movement. tell us what it was, what the roots of that movement were, how it really was hugely successful grass roots movement. what set it apart and made it so successful? >> i think what happened here was many americans, particularly on the college campuses responded to the mass protests that took place in south africa. it was the first time in 1984 after the benedict of the elections that we had seen mass protests in the country and that triggered i think a response here. it was particularly felt on the campuses and it took time but i think gradually many americans started to change their attitude to everything apathetical.

it's interesting in our own history, there are so few times when progressive people feel as though they were a part of something that actually led for the a change, a concrete change, not only the release of mandela but change in government and the end of apartheid. we played a role in that in a small and significant way in this country. >> we have the political system and the debate over the sangszs in 1986 that played out in this country. more broadly, what were especially in the early days of the boycott movement in this country, what is it you were up against? >> i think sean spoke to it already, economic interests at stake were powerful. we had major corporations invested in south africa, universities and other institutions in this country invested in those corporations. they were not willing to readily give up those investments. the university of california write was at the time had $4.2 billion. so when we began to take on the regions and push for this investment, we were taking on

reagan's appointees who were on the board of regents. the political symbolism was very powerful. so initially, there was quite a bit of resistance, gradually as that movement bild built and were sustained over several years, we were able to sway public opinion t. sanctions were overturned by the coming, rakeen's veto was over turned and the tide began to change. the movement many people wanted to be associated with. they could see they were on the wrong side of history. >> a lot of these were floating around. 1985, an active voice in a conservative punditries, in 1985, clearly the current campaigning against south africa is a fad, a moral hoola hoop. even altruism is not fuel for the long haul. it is amazing when you look at the conservative movem.

we look at the conservative air in the known 60s. now you are advancing in the 1980s and can you say it was an extraordinary fillier, too. >> the republicans controlled the senate t. republican party stood up to president reagan. nobody had overturned a presidential veto on foreign policy in the 20th century. you had 37 and 53 republicans, including richard lugar who is still there. mitch mcconnell who said he was in college during civil rights movement and then he was on the side of civil rights and then it got all complicated with affirmative action and bussing and sanctions he said made it all clear again. he stood up again against the president. i was covering the white house then and occasionally they would bring in small groups of reporters to chat with the president on the theor theory w

each other. it was during this period the president said more black people drive and own cars in south africa than there are cars in the soviet union and to him that sort of rationalized, this was, you know, communism is the evil system. and you had po to do everything to stand up to communism. i remember clearly he reached for two cookies and said he had half a sandwich for lunch. pat buchanon was a speech writer in the white house then. i recalled this memory to him. he said he wrote that lean. he got it from commentary magazine. he said reagan loved it but the secretary of state george schultz was furious at him for putting it in. it made if president look like simpleton. >> but that was a part, anything that could be released anti-communism, that was the ultimate -- >> he believed in that. he had the assistant secretary of state was chester crocker,

who developed what do you call constructive engage. which rationalized the continuum of trade. >> coming up in just a minute, we are going to be joined by a former republican member of the senate. he voted to override that reto by reagan in the sanctions bill in 1986. the vote was a cull men nation of a long cultural company in the apartheid in 1980s here is a taste of it out of the specials in gland in 1984. [ male announcer ] with only minutes left before kickoff, thousands of tailgaters .

[ music playing ] >> that was the song sun city, in a way nelson mandela and the anti-apartheid movement permeated the 1980s from all star videos to the cosby show t. oldest daughter named her newborn twins nelson and whenny. organized labor behind boycotts, investment sanctions after years of debate as we said, congress passed a sweeping sanctions law in 19 ex-. president reagan took out his rehave to pen and september it back to congress. i want to welcome former senator cohn. he was among the republicans to override that veto. he also served as secretary of defense during clinton's second terrell. take us back to that moment, eleanor cook in the last segment set up what a historic moment that was to have a president's

veto overwritten. the question of sanctions in 1986. can you take us back to the dewitt playing out in your party? because there were plenty of republicans who voted to override that veto. there were also plenty of republicans, jesse helms, orrin hatch, thad cochran that wouldn't do it. take us back and tell us what that was all about. >> well, i think there were two things at work. your guests talked about this being a vote and debate about foreign policy, about the anc being a proxy for the soviet union and certainly there was the element of communism involved and this was really a support for a communist group. but deeply underlying that was really the issue of racism and the evil of racism and the discussion about communism i think was just an overlay of that, that you look at our own history, how long it took us to

try to eliminate the racism in our own society. i was watching the pictures you were showing. i was thinking of the same scene. it could be a scene in alabama with bull conner and lester maddox and george wallace. so the underlying issue of race was always involved in this and the notion that somehow the black majority was enferrior to the whites who were trying to bring civilization to that country and so that was part of the dewitt at least in my mind and i felt so strongly about this so that i didn't hesitate for a moment to say this speech had to be overwren given our own history in this country that racism still persists. >> this is mia whilism thank you so much for your role in upholding sanctions. can i ask you a question about history? racism was a big part of it. at the same time the u.n. security council passed the first resolution in 1962, so it

was a long walk to sanctions, not just a long walk to freedom. what is your take on why it took so long, given the overt racism in south africa to get to that point? >> well, as i just mentioned, why did it take us so long to get a voting bill passed under linden johnson? how could we a country of 200 or 300 years allowed slavery, jim crowe slavery to have persisted for so long? i think that's just another example of it that over time finally the morality and the ill morality of racism was able to be overcome. but it is not easy and i think many feelings are still there. you can see there is still a divide in our country. we still divide up red state, blue state. we have those fighting the civil war in many ways in their own minds, whether it's northern aggression or the interruption of a way of life in the south, et cetera.

so i think it's a part of the human drama that we have to fight this evil of discrimination based on either race, ethnicity, religion, preference, any of the signs of bigotry have to be addressed and not. and i think it just takes time. we're learning. we are still evolving. we are a better country today than we were 20 years ago, 30 years ago. we still have a ways to go. >> when you cast that vote in 19 yivenlgs you can look back and say within four years nelson mandela is released. four years after that, democratic elections, he becomes the president. did you think history was going to play out like that in 1986? did you think the struggle was going to take longer than that? >> i had no idea. in fact, i had no way of knowing how nelson mandela once being freed would react. my wife and i had the opportunity to visit robben island and stand in his cell and look out into the courtyard where he spent so many years

crushing rocks. i felt a sense of rage welling up inside of me having think nelson mandela having spent so many years in prison could come out and walk tall and straight and say that he wanted to seek rec sill dwrags. that's an extraordinary statement i had no way of knowing whether or not he would seek revenge or to try to rally his people against the white minority that exists in this country. i don't think any of us had any notion how that was going to turn u turn out. >> former secretary of defense and former senator as well. we will peck up that point. nelson mandela after he was released in that transition to democracy. we'll pick that up right after this. and cramps end our night before it even starts? .

s full. you'd be crazy not to. is that nana? [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. . >> nelson mandela's first words after being released back in

1990 and saun we pick up the pint bill cohn was making in the last segment, he didn't know, a lot of people didn't know as the anti-aapartheid movement gained force. he didn't know how he would react to being a political leader day-to-day in south africa. did you have a sense back then how he was going to react and his supporters within the anc, is this what they expected when he came out, this sort of tone of rec sill yaegs he offered? >> people forget in his very first speech he was very, you know, clear about the fact that he was representing this mass move him that had emerged in the 1980s that he represented this long tradition of struggle against racism. not just racism but economic just fis. if you were growing up in south africa in the late 1980s, state censorship was kind of total. i remember personally, i only saw a photograph of mandela about 1985.

it was a grainy photograph t. mug shot. that's what most people i suppose in the west also saw the state was very good as not making us see what he looked like. i remember when he came out of prison, that moment, the clip, i was at home watching that with my parent. i just remember everybody in south africa was really expectant, they were hoping that we'd have a different kind of country, more are you main that was about dealing with the racism of the past. unfortunately, i think it has become a very ordinary country in which the state is not, doesn't care about i think dealing with these massive enequalities. the south african state right now is often murdering its own sides like last summer, they've murtd 34 miners protesting against low wages. so those are the kind of things about that legacy. i think people waiting for mandela to get free have high expectations. as the time went on, we realize what we will get is something very ordinary. >> how do you think about that, pedro, somebody so active in seeking his release, seeking the

democratization and where you were in the 1980s, how do you think about that? >> well, membersled feelings. on the one hand, we never really now mandela would be released. so when he was released, it was amazing. we were just shocked by it. then to see him and see him then transition to the presidency, it seemed like just a dream come true. however, i have been back to south africa on several occasions now, it is a disappointment. you see the stark inequality t. conditions of the majority of blacks have not improved very much. i think this great disappointment in the leadership of the anc now. that i think posed a major problem for the country. you will increasingly see tensions within the society over the direction it should take and i think there is an aware inside that south africa is a very wealthy nachlgs it has to do something to create a more enexclusive, more ec wit annual society than it has so far.

right now, it's a great disappointment. i was there in the township this past spring and the conditions people are living in and their frustration and anger with the anc i think is growing. i think it poses tremendous challenges for the future. >> i think these are important questions. i want to flag two things. one, the leadership actually knew what kind of man nelson mandela was. because the negotiations started in 1985. so what became public in 1990 was actually five years in the making. it was very clear nelson mandela was an elder statesman, even while he was in prison. the other thing to remember is the disinvestment movement was very much in touch with nelson mandela. so those two things were actively the anc organized a lot of the di vestment move him.

movement. including an incredible apartheid era of death t. fact that 15% of the population plus multinational corporations own 90% of the check in activity of the country and what nelson mandela and the anc negotiated was the polls not the purse, assuming that the purse would follow the polls and that's not exactly what happened. it's a very complex -- >> 20 years can be a long time or a short time. >> how much can you lay on the shoulders of nelson mandela? i mean, we were just talking about enequity in this country as well. it's a world wide problem. i think if i heard president obama, it's worse in this country than anywhere else. i just want to give a salute to congress as it existed back then. we so look at today's corporation it's so lame. it can't do anything. the congressional black caucus, it took years. they really not for it and they

got college kids interested and the movement was created. you could almost say it started on capitol hill. >> it is true, there were conservatives that approved it. you saw can coalitions emerge that would be unthinkable today. >> i want to thank you. switching gees now, president obama goes back to college. he takes kris jenner matthews along with him. there can't miss conversation at american university this week. we will play a little from it. we will talk about it. that's next. i need a car that's stylish and fashionable... >> it's saturday, it's time for

another edition of up against the clock. three people are warming up in the isolation booth. but we all have to wait a little longer. the same game you know and love. we will bring it to you in the

next hour. stick around later. before we get to that, congress has passed fewer laws this year than ever before. president obama tried to diagnose the reason for the enaction. >> the big challenge you got is you got a faction of the republican party that sees compromise as a dirty word that has moved so far to the right, that it would be difficult for a ronald reagan to win the nomination for the republican party at this point. >> we will be playing more from the panel right after this. so i deserve a small business credit card with amazing rewards. with the spark cash card from capital one, i get 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. i break my back around here. finally someone's recognizing me with unlimited rewards! meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one. choose 2% cash back or double miles

on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? i need your timesheets, larry! what's in your wallet? more shopping. more dining out. more traveling. and along with it, more identity theft. every time you pull out your credit card, shop online, or hit the road, you give thieves a chance to ruin your holiday. you can't be on the lookout 24/7. but lifelock can. protecting your identity, your bank accounts, even the equity in your home. when lifelock detects a threat to your identity within their network, they'll alert you by text, phone, or e-mail, protecting you before the damage can be done. act now and we'll protect you 60 days risk free. no one protects you better than lifelock. try lifelock protection 60 days risk free and get a special holiday gift -- a document shredder. a $29 value free. ♪ ♪

[ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. [ m'm... ] great taste. [ tapping ] sounds good. campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good.® campbell's healthy request. on the table by not choosing the right medicare d plan. no one could have left this much money here. whoo-hoo-hoo! yet many seniors who compare medicare d plans realize they can save hundreds of dollars. cvs/pharmacy wants to help you save on medicare expenses. talk to your cvs pharmacist, call, or go to cvs.com/compare to get your free, personalized plan comparison today. call, go online, or visit your local store today. ♪ by the end of december, we'll be delivering ♪ ♪ through 12 blizzards blowing ♪ 8 front yards blinding ♪ 6 snowballs flying ♪ 5 packages addressed by toddlers ♪

♪ that's a q ♪ 4 lightning bolts ♪ 3 creepy gnomes ♪ 2 angry geese ♪ and a giant blow-up snowman ♪ that kind of freaks me out [ beep ] [ female announcer ] no one delivers the holidays like the u.s. postal service. priority mail flat rate is more reliable than ever. and with improved tracking up to 11 scans, you can even watch us get it there. ♪ gives you the ultimate in fresh breath. so you have the courage to jump in, go in for the hug, or make sparks fly. it's the only toothpaste that combines the freshness of scope with the cleaning power of crest. crest + scope. life opens up when you do. . >> barak obama won the presidency by appealing to one age group, young voters, especially new voters who never cast a ballot before. they turned out in force to send him to the white house. he won 66% from 18 to between-year-old voters compared

to 32% for john mccain. it was down in 2012. still an overwhelming majority, far above the 37% mitt raleighny got from the same age group. this constituency has been a key part of the coalition that put barak obama in ofrls. it wasn't surprising when it came time to discuss his legacy and the challenges he has been facing. president obama did it before an audient of college students. msnbc's own chris matthews at american university in washington. voting itself, specifically the efforts under way in republican-controlled states to make it harder to vote. chris asked the president what he asked to do to stop the suppression. >> early next year, we're going to put forward what we know will be a bipartisan effort or a bipartisan proposal to encourage people to vote. you can't say you take pride in

american democracy, american constitutionalism, american exceptionalism and then you do everything you can to make it harder for people to vote as opposed to make it easier for people to vote. >> we have msnbc contributor, a columnist at the washington post. a political columnist and progressive activist. jonathan, let's peck up that quote we just played for obama there saying next year we will have some sort of bipartisan plan on voting rights. i took a step back. are we sure it's going to be bipartisan? are we sure there will be meaningful bipartisan plan. everything i have seen tells me there may be a plan next year. i'm hard pressed to see where it's bipartisan. >> we are saying an eternally hopeful, optimistic president who knows full well that whoever, and especially he's for it, is going to be impossible to get age done. the republicans have made it

clear on any issue from the bucket, economy, jobs, health care, immigration you name it they will stand in the way of quote giving him a win. they don't want him to succeed. as we know, there have been two books wren that republicans collude before he was inaugurated to insure he would not be successful. so a president's job is to be hopeful and optimistic. that's what the president is being here, but that's not to say that he shouldn't try. because the president, while hopeful and optimistic. he's dealing with all these obstruction and impediments, he has to try, otherwise why be in the job? >> what's the point of the job. isaac, when you watched the interview, it was sort of interesting to watch a president expound at length about what it's like to be president while he's president.

it is sort of an interesting experience we don't get to see. what were you seeing? what were you taking away from what you heard the president talking about this week? >> this was the first interview obama has done in a few weeks where he seemed back on hills game, he seemed confident, feisty. happy, the last few times we had seen him, he was at his press conference, apologizing about health care. he seemed to be enjoying it. >> was it about being in a room of reporters? ies matthews is a journalist. he's in a room of college students. >> he they were cheering for him. when he talked about health care, he said students could get coverage for contraceptives. it did not get a huge cheer. they were pleased by that. he definitely seemed better than he had seemed in a long time. >> he was telling you ability some of the qualities that are useful to be president. let's take a listen in the most important qualities of any

president, i'm not necessarily saying i have these qualities, i'm speaking historically, i think it has to do with more than anything a sense of connection with the american people. that's what allows you then to have that sec qual, with i is persistence. >> how is it? he's looking at some of his predecessors saying maybe he feels they had something he didn't have it's something he seems one reing is he is saying there is i feel that i lack here. >> yeah, he admitted i don't know necessarily if i have those qualities i'm looking back at predecessors. i think that connection with the men people, it's probably what bothers him most. when he was elected, he rode this wave of being this champion of ordinary americans.

he felt like he understood them, he was willing to consider all sides of an argument and intellectually honest. there were these attributes that made him connect with voters. sense then he's struggled to regain that. i don't know if it's possible to regain that kind of connection when you are grinding through the day-to-day of governance, right? but i think that he probably misses it from the campaign, obviously the 2012 campaign was nowhere near the 2008 campaign in that regard. you go at the time sense he wishes he could capture that fire. >> to steal mario cuomo, you can't pay in poetry. we will use the ultimate teaser. i want to hear what you say about this. we will do it right after the break. [ lane ] do you ever feel like you're growing old

waiting for your wrinkle cream to work? clinically proven neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair. it targets fine lines and wrinkles with the fastest retinol formula available. you'll see younger looking skin in just one week. one week? that's just my speed. rapid wrinkle repair. and for dark spots rapid tone repair. from neutrogena®.

it's hard to describe, because you have a numbness, but yet you have the pain like thousands of needles sticking in your foot. it was progressively getting worse, and at that point i knew i had to do something. once i started taking the lyrica the pain started subsiding. [ male announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eyesight including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or skin sores from diabetes. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet.

don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. . >> here is what sacrifice and fordifferentness can do. many men in the 21st century were framed. few were great. nelson mandela became one of the greatest. >> so we heard president obama talking to chris matthews about the importance with the connection with the men people. what was your take? >> i thought it was a

fascinating interview. i like to hear the president when he expands on his terms on some level. but i'm going to be honest, i'm a big chris matthews fan. that was the softest voice i ever heard chris matthews speak in. you know, look, i imagine, these interviews when they are done on the other side the folks on the right want to hold the president accountable. the president made an illusion that many msnbc viewers are frustrated from the left. i would like an interview where it wasn't sitting down, letting the president say what he wants to say, but holding him accountable for the frustrations from the party who peel feels he hasn't done enough, whether it's on holding the banks account annual. things that he has the power to do. i would have liked to have seen more of that. >> let's play out a clip. you talk about how he was energized by the college audience he was in front of there. he was asked the question about whether he thinks the next

generation should go into politics. >> how many kids here want to go into politics? >> that's a pretty good number. >> are they right? >> it continues to be a way to serve that i think can be noble. it's hard. it can be frustrate straighting. you got to have a thick thin. >> he is not acting locate, yes, go. i want for the inspire you like jfk did 50 years ago. it's hard to say that's the product of five years of experience in this gridlock and obstructionism. >> if anything, the president is a realist. if you ask him if this sort of you topian question, he will say, yes, it's a noble calling, be prepared, be very prepared, because i wasn't. think about it. you said while he was speaking, you said, he looks beaten down. i couldn't help but agree. remember, the barak obama who

introduced himself to the american people in 2004 in boston, young, dark hair, hopeful, optimistic, is completely different from the barak obama who sat, president barak obama who sat before chris matthews. >> that being said, he's still, if you go back to that 2004 key note address in boston, the same, you will hear the same barak obama who is president now. there is a consistency there. >> every president in a way seems to have greyer hair and thick thin i skin. >> the elizabeth warren wing is under attack. it is not from senate republicans. that's next. while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms.

. >> in the wake of the 2008 economic crisis, a harvard law professor had the idea to create a federal agency that would protect consumers against unfair business practices to keep people from being taken advantage of in ways that had

the potential to sink the american economy all over again. after president obama announced he liked the idea of that federal agency and he wanted that harvard professor to lead it, senate republicans said no, as they blocked her confirmation and nomination, really. they were against not just her but the very existence of the agency, consumer protection, itself, a regulating big business, when president obama grew convinced she conwhen confirmation, he nominated someone else instead, within she couldn't head up the agency that she conceived off of, she, instead, declaerd her senate in massachusetts. she decided to take the one of scott brown and bring back real genuine populism. she tried to bring that back to the united states senate. >> there is nobody in this country who got rich on his own, nobody. you built a factory out there, good for you.

but i want to be close, you moved your gdz to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. you were safe if your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. you didn't have to worry that maraud bands would come and seize everything at your factory and hire someone to protect this because of the work the rest of us did. you built a factory, it built into something or a great idea. god bless, keep a big hunk of it. but part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along. >> that harvard law professor won her senate rait race for the senate. she is now senator elizabeth warren. not only that, her populist message defined the election as a whole.

>> if you are successful somebody along the line gave you some help. there was a great teacher somewhere in your life. somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system that we have that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested in roads and bridges. if you got a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. the internet didn't get invented on its own. government research created the internet so that all the companies could make main i money off the internet t. point is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative also because we do things together. >> if president obama and elizabeth warren's miami, investing in each other, if that miami was raised which democrats, republicans thought they would be age win the election in 2012 by running against it. mitt romney and the rnc adopted

"we built it" as a theme in tam '. you could see it everywhere, on signs, in screens in atlanta. it was chanted by a crowd of delegates. it never seemed to gain that much traction with the electorate. the message that did seem to find an audience was this one this which mitt romney says 47% of the public think they are victims and dependent on the government and believes the government has a responsibility to care for them t. mitt romney 47% video that some believe cost mit momry the race for the presidency. the 2012 election was in some respects a referendum of big business versus big government which competing ideas of the democratic parties of what the balance of power between them would be. >> that fight is still being wanld. only this time, it condition taking place among democrats and republicans. this time, democrats are fighting among themselves about

populism. third way offered an op-ed in the "wall street journal" warning democrats not to follow senator warren over a populisf chicago it's a dead end for democrats. the author is arguing unlike the reckless, their word, policy senator warren sports, other democrats should be looking to cut medicare. the third wing is locking to pick a fight which elizabeth warren, they succeeded and managed to rage other members of the party affiliated which third way. the office of congress woman aliceson schwartz of pennsylvania, she an honorary chair woman. she told jonathan martin of the new york times she quote read the op-ed, thought it was outrageous. disagrees strongly and told third way that. a spokesman joe krawley added the spokesman said congressman krawley worked which third ray on a rage of issues but on this matter, they strongly disagree

senator wore ren told huffington post third way is flatly wrong and said they have an undebatable sal vanl crisis him we could make if system financially stable for a century and make laernl adjustments and make it pay more for seniors who rely on it. the conversation for far too long has been about cutting benefits a bill little or a lot. >> that is flatly the wrong dewitt to have in mind. she challenged bmpgs to be transparent about donations to think tanks like third way. warren said this week she is taking herself out of contention for if 2016 presidential race. she made an effort to stop talk of a run. shelves trying to put a stop of speculation on a race of a populist like elizabeth war revenlt a race between those two dpeeting ideas between populism and sen terrorism is alive and kicking and likely to remain a

huge part of what democrats will be fighting on and voting on in next year's mid-terms and in 2016. here to talk about that now, welcome back nsnbc contributor and dlum nis and activist sally cohen. isaac, i want to first sort of define for people what the fault loans are here the centrists vs. the progressives. this third way versus elizabeth warren. in the op ed that checked this off. they are talking about this plan elizabeth warren put out there and aggressives on expanding social security. let's stop this debate they're saying let's expand it. it seems that medicare is a part of this. what are the fault lines dividing the democratic party? >> you mentioned social security and medicare which are the big ones. you played clips of elizabeth

warren and obama sounding rhetorically similar in their approach how the american economy works and examism should work best and so on. there are real fault leans between say warren and obama. i think you saw glimmers of what we will see going forward in the fight between janet yellen and larry summers about who will be the next chair of the fed. substantively they're close. sort of more wall street friendly democrats and people in the white house were fairly supportf of summers. as for yellen, she is much more support among the grass roots. >> that ultimately she bought the the nomination. but i think those are the real issues. the wall street issues, how to regulate the banks, rather than social security and medicare, which will be the fault lines for the democrats. >> so when we say regulating the banks, we say there is a divide there between obama and the centrist for what obama has done and frank represents and what warren and janet yellen, what specifically are we talking

policy-wise? >> let's beclear before we get there, let's talk about where that divide exists? because the divide doesn't exist with the american people. it's the fine thing the op-ed totally missed the vote on, the american people support a more economic populist move in politics. incidentally, a lot of republican voters. >> the banks are not popular? >> it's broader than that. yes, they think a majority of voters, including in swing districts and a strong number of independents believe the president, for instance, hasn't done enough and to hold banks accountable including for their criminal acts. that's one example. a majority of voters think we should raise taxes on the wealthy to support the middle class and spur job creation. >> that is a part of this economic populism. it's what they're about. they're about 1% status quo. >> what warren is getting at and the subdebates is she sent this letter out challenging the six big banks, disclose all of

yourks who are you funding think-tank wise? they haven't done that t. leaders of third way i think they said les than 1% of our funding comes from wall street. but what they were also left opened was the possibility that a lot of money comes from people who make their money on wall street. it's not directly coming. it is still in a way wall street money. >> what strikes me about the internal democratic debate versus the internal republican debate in washington is that the dewitt on the left seems much more substantive, right? there are genuine disagreements over policy that are taking place and shaping this debate. in walling, at least, it's more about tactics and strategy and how aggressive. they're shut down, for example. that wasn't a policy. that was all about how much hard ball to play, right? so republicans disagree about that. when you expand the dewitt to governors and people across the

country, there are substantive differences. in washington on the left, there is a real policy decide taking place. >> that will be important. >> we talked about this. are there numbers, names to put on it? how is the democratic party divide right notice when it comes to questions of economic populism? >> i think we are seeing it right now. all this talk about whether senator warren will run against senator carolina. i think mccain brings up a good point i'm glad you set it. there is a policy difference here battle that's happening within the democratic party and third way as a matter of full disclosure. i talked to folks at third way all the time. they are,y, they're centrist, they're clear united states. but they're looking at it not locking at issues as rah-rah

democrats, they're looking at it for what's good for the country from a centrist left point of view. now that will not go over very well, sally gives me this side eyes. it's not going to go over well which you. but there is a legitimate dewitt to be had about what to do about social security. just because social security is fine now doesn't mean it will be fine in 2031 and something needs to be done. folks at third way are looking at this as 2031 will get here whether we like it or not. so let's get things in place as they would say save social security, stair med dade, medicare. >> that's what's interesting to me if we want to talk about social security, what is interesting to me about this moment. the dewitt about social security, as long as i have been alive and hearing this has been framed in those terms. save soerm social security. salvage social security in 1983 we always had these dates. there is an attempt at least by

elizabeth warren and others on the way to change the terms of the dewitt. it's not about social security's future is always on the line, there are steps we can take that could actually make this a much bigger program which raising the tap on the payroll tax, something leak that. i haven't seen anybody pushing for that debate. now i'm seeing that for the first time. >> it's incredibly refreshing. i don't want to look at jonathan as he's the proxy for third way. >> i will say this much, what's fascinating to mccain's point as well about the republican party. they keep losing, right? we talked about the voter suppression, all of that, the reason they're trying to suppress votes is they know their demographic is getting older, effectively going to that great polling box in the sky. you know, we have the country which us. we are winning larger and larger majorities on the left and yed yet and yet republicans remain

steadfast about these incredible economic views. here you have democrats -- democrats, the point is the democrats win. we won. we still won't say hey, let's actually preserve the social safety net that made this country great. >> democrats are winning outside of washington. senator warren is the only one of senator warren on capitol hill. when you look on the right, the tea party, you can loose, since 2010, there are a lot of tea party people on capitol hill. unless and until senator wore ren has reenforcements of people coming to washington and some of these folks who are now speaking out against third way, if they then back up their criticisms of third way by standing directly behind senator warren and giving her some beingup, then i think what you are talking about. >> that is perfect. we will pick this up after the

brick because there were some on the left are saying they sensed a change, a pivot in a way from the president this woke closer to the warren campus. some of the things that he said in a speech this week. we will play clips about that and talk about that and also the idea of maybe the equivalent grass roots movement towards the stae party cropping up on the left that will go after more aggressive third party types a. long tease, we will talk about that next in the next segment.

. >> a relentlessly growing deficit of opportunity is a bigger threat to our future than our rapidly shrinking fiscal deficit. >> the president on wednesday speaking at the center for american progress. he talked about invoking the fast food workers, liberal

economists writing in the new york times responded by writing finally our political class has spent years obsessed which a fake problem worrying about debt and deficits that never pose a threat to the nation's future, showing no interest in stag nateing wages. mr. obama i'm sorry to say bought into that diversion. now, however, he is moving on. isaac, do you share that reading that paul had, two, three years ago, everybody in washington was old souls on a deficit reduction including the president, himself, now even president obama is showing publicly an inclination to show that warren style populism. >> i think the rhetoric has changed. just to go back to the last seg him, jonathan was saying the tea party has people in washington. there is elizabeth warren. i think if it's going to come, it's going to to him in the next few years. you have the thing with the tea

party rhetoric. it was followed by victory. you have the rhetoric. the question is whether people can be elected to washington. >> the tea party the power of the tea party the president talked about this in his interview, he talked ability how they scare, the tea party has scared republicans in republican primaries. solet talk about third way here. give me an idea first of all. we say this term third way, here are democratic members of congress two are affiliated which, the honorary co-chairs, they associate themselves which third way and third way is a part of this sort of centrist tradition that sprouted up around bill clinton in the ''80s and '90s. it was founded in 2005 in the weak of this whole flap which elizabeth warren jonathan, the daily coast prom elsed they would go out and support and raise money for any democratic

candidate who prom elsed not to join third what i. so i saw a little hint of the tea party there forcing discipline to primaries. look, daily coast, if they want to do that, great. if they're successful, well, i guess that's great, too. if you can knock out a sitting long-term member of congress so that someone to the left of that person, more power to them. but the danger here is what we're seeing on the right. the fact that you have people in the senate and the house who are wildly conservative who are not considered conservative enough and being knocked out and bringing in people who are recalcitra recalcitrant. i don't know if i want the see the party become a mirror of the right. >> i love you. i think that's a false equivalent. elizabeth warren is no extremist. she's sensible. >> i'm worried about the tenor

and tone of debate in the country. i'm also worried about the fact that we can't get anything done now because of crazies on the right. so you want to then bring not the equivalent but folks on the left who are just as recalcitrant. >> second of all, again, this is actually where the men people are at. that what kills me in all of this. the entire political system, including the main stream of the democratic party is actually to the right of where the american people are, the sort of bread and butter check mane street poply. that resonates through the american people,let not 40, some of which drove the tea party to power is their opposition to tarp and the bank bailouts. >> that resonates right and left, actually. >> to the way you know if this economic poply. made real advances is if president obama fully embraces it. we interviewed al fromm, the

founder of the democratic leadership council. and one of the things he said, he's never been a huge alloy of president obama's. one thing he said, he feels throughout obama's presidency, he has been a counter puncher was his word. because he has always been reacting, whether to the tea party or the left or to various events, he has failed to really outline a strong and unifying ideology for the democratic party will you see in that speech, he says, i kind of walked the line between the economic populist and established wall street democrats. so the way you will know this economic poply. is taking hold in the democratic party is really succeeds in inwhiching over president obama in his second term. right? he's a lame duvenlg he doesn't have to run again for re-election. >> does it set the terms for debate for 2016? >> does hillary clinton open up themes? does it open up space on the left? i wonder if we are at a turnle

point, in the known '80s, democrats kept losing elections. bill clinton came from that this was this instant thing bill clinton formed an alliance in wall street. there was a third way move him for bell daily, a third way guy. he tried to have the grand bar gen for republicans in 2011. now i wonder post grand bargain. you listen to obama this week. i wonder if we're at a turning point. that dlc generation that defined the democratic party, if that is fading off in the scene. >> you mentioned 2011, i think to go fwok the third way op-ed, i think they are strategic as well as substantive. one of the tweaks during this time is his manner of negotiating is to say i will offer you this. it didn't work auto very well. think they say say here are

people ostensibly a part of the legal coalition. they say we will cut medicare and social security. which today's republican party, even if you think substantively that's correct, which a lot of liberals do not. that's not a good what i to go about it. >> i do want to talk about that issue of where the democratic party is going. it's not a question of will hillary or won't she? that's what she says. we will pick it up right after this. ♪ . co. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. i'm bethand i'm michelle. and we own the paper cottage.

it's a stationery and gifts store. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. so you have time to focus on the things you love. ink from chase. so you can. medicare open enrollment. of year again. time to compare plans and costs. you don't have to make changes. but it never hurts to see if you can find better coverage, save money, or both. and check out the preventive benefits you get after the health care law. open enrollment ends december 7th. so now's the time. visit medicare.gov or call 1-800-medicare yep. got all the cozies.

[ grandma ] with new fedex one rate, i could fill a box and ship it for one flat rate. so i knit until it was full. you'd be crazy not to. is that nana? [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. hands for holding. feet, kicking. better things than the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. if you're trying to manage your ra, now may be the time to ask about xeljanz. xeljanz (tofacitinib) is a small pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers have happened in patients taking xeljanz. don't start taking xeljanz if you have any kind of infection, unless ok with your doctor. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests,

including certain liver tests, before you start and while you are taking xeljanz. tell your doctor if you have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you are pregnant, or plan to be. taken twice daily, xeljanz can reduce the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe ra, even without methotrexate. ask if xeljanz is right for you.

mouth. >> i may have picked the wrong time. >> when you look at the obama campaign in 2008, there was a lot of populist appeal in the obama campaign in 2008. do you think he has any of the instinct, has he shown you his instinct in terms of the populist? >> taliban lies the difference. >> that speech is similar to the one in kansas. it's very similar to speeches he has given throughout his national political career. so i think his heart and mind are in the right place, but when you are sitting in the oval office, when you are the president, all of a sudden i realize i can't exactly do everything i'd like to do.

these folks here won't let me do things. even if i want to do them, whether it's good for my country, gtd for my party. i can't get a lot of these things done. like chew on my red. i feel for the president because you cannot listen to that speech or the kansas speech. any time he speaks about the pain and toughering and the hardships the american people are going tluchl he can't do nearly as much for the country, remember, he put forth in the jobs act in september, 2011. republican ideas, democratic ideas and couldn't get it done. i think from that point on, you know what, this is leading up to the presidential company. so remember he went around the country hammering republicans for basically abandoning the

american people. i mean i don't know, sally, what more can the president do? >> that's one of the questions. >> to make you happy. >> that's one of the questions. it's about the limits of the political system. isn't it? >> no question. >> so look i agree, i want to applaud the progressive change campaign and is changing that, rying to get more progressive democrats elected. so that's the right direction when the president was first nominated. he put a lot of people into his inner circle. he put in clinton people, robb emanuel. when he had beth houses, this was not, oh, look at me, i'm a big old progressive, right? he can do things with the department of justice to make it better for working people. you know, this example of the minimum wage, he just, this week, he made news let's not forget by announcing he was in

support of a higher raise of a minimum wage than he had previously been. if you can't get stuff through, at least you can make a majority of questions. >> i tease that point. i wonder, too, when you look at that, we talked about if bill daily moment, they came right after the 2010 mid-terms, so there is a whole thing for democrats in 2010. democrats are taking action, having power in the house, in the senate, to take action on a major populist agenda, health care? >> democrats wonder in poll, which party do you want to see in democrats? obama versus mccain, obama, definitely. they went in, used their power to implement and missed a

backlash for doing something that in the polls in 2008 would have been very popular. >> i wonder if some democrats say, you know, health care was supposed to be popular. too. >> here's my favorite political point of all time, which is that both parties fear their flanks but in different ways. republicans fear the republicans have feared the far right in the sense of oh, no, we better appease them. >> they lose primaries. >> democrats fear the left of their party, oh, we don't want to be associated which them. you see this sort of play out in election after election. we don't want to seem like we are which those people when, in fact, that is who elects presidents. >> that is the democratic base and increaseingly, every poll

shows they are representing more and more of this populist unmet node early. >> that is right. when democrats start losing primaries, everyone can criticize the president. that stinks. they always have. we can hold him accountable. >> it's fascinating five years into obama's presidency, we are arguing what he believes. >> coming up. >> moaning he is a good politician. >> coming up next, america's favorite hit, political and/or country events quiz show up against the clocks. it is happening this hour in minutes. stick around. .

ask me what it's like to get your best night's sleep every night. [announcer] why not talk to someone who's sleeping on the most highly recommended bed in america? ask me about my tempur-pedic. ask me how fast i fall asleep. ask me about staying asleep. [announcer] tempur-pedic owners are more satisfied than owners of any traditional mattress brand. tempur-pedic. the most highly recommended bed in america. now sleep cooler with extra cooling comfort on our bestselling tempur-breeze beds. visit tempurpedic.com to learn more, and find a retailer near you.

♪ ♪ >> in 1961, five years before he was elected. ronald reagan appeared on the game show "i got a secret" to

revel something big to the men public, oh, sort of. >> the real test of a good announcer is whether he can keep from breaking up, whether he cannot-or go to pieces no matter what's going to happen when he's on the air in the se dret is you will announce this test to see if they can pass it without laughing or breaking up. >> believe it or not, i had to pass that same test before i got this dig. if you think it is hard to concentrate while ronald reagan is blowing a horn at you. wait until you see what we have in store for our contestant on up against the clock. a weekly events quiz show. it is coming up next. gs ] let's see what's cookin'. look at this. that's a swiffer. i don't have to climb up. .

live from studio 3a in rockefeller center usa, it's time for "up against the clock."

our first contestant the pride of awill be town, pennsylvania, where they even named the say after her, sally cohn. from massachusetts the home of major league first baseman mark twooed, welcome mckay. and our rer returning champion from oakland, california, hills two day winnings total $10 in leftover hanukkah bills. say hello to isaac chapner. right now the host of "up against the clock," steve kornacki. >> thank you, bill wochl, thank you contestants, thank you, studio audience. thank you for joining us as home for another action-packed edition of "up against the clock." contestants welcome. i think you all know the rules. by now, we have three round of play. wrong answers will cost you, there are instant bonuses scatt

scattered. i must remind the studio audience, please, no outburst, those contestants demand absolute concentration on "up against the clock." contestants, are you ready to play? >> we are ready. >> we will go to the 100 point round. we have 100 second on the clock. we go. unemployment fell to 7%. in what year was it last lower than 7%? sally? >> need an answer. >> i'm going to go which 1730. >> encorrect. >> mckay. >> in 2008. >> correct. 100 points mckay. 8, 5, 4, how many days is the house of representatives scheduled to be -- sally. >> i will go which 26. steve. >> it wasn't one of the choices, incorrect. 100 point question, william

bet-o bet-on-breton. 8, 5, 4, how many days is the house of representatives scheduled to be in session 2009 now and the end of the year? >> 5. >> encorrect. >> isaac. >> 4. >> 4 is contradict. 100 point for isaac. william brettton tapped by bill deblasio to serve as police commissioner. once held the president under rudy guiliani and in this west coast city. >> los angeles. >> correct. 100 point question, christy force appointed this week to the no. 2 position in the pentagon was also the inspiration for the female lead opposite -- isaac. >> opposite tom cruise in "top gun." >> correct. 100 points, an instant bonus. "top gun" was the top grossing movie in 1986. what comedy finished as a close second that year.

>> "crocodile dundee.". >> correct. isaac which that bonus to 300. mckay at zero. samly which unorthodoxed guessing work negative 200. this takes us to the 200 point round. value doubles on these questions. 100 second on the clock. which round 2, we now begin. speccing friday the gop opening of an african-american outreach office, senator rand paul said it's quote the beginning of a new republican party in what city? sally? >>ly go which crocodile dun de, steve. >> i'm not sure how you are. manying kay. >> detroit. >> detroit is correct. 200 point question the man who managed bill debassio's successful company for mayor of new york abruptly quit his new role as the company manager for this florida democrat running for governor. isaac. >> charlie kris. 200 point question, filing forlg re-election on tuesday this scandal-plagued d.c. mayor

announced he would seek a second term. sally. >> i'd like to call mike kapart? >> not on option t. two seem to want to play the game. manying kay. >> marion barry. >> incorrect. >> isaac. >> see, he can play. >> ven sent grey, running for re-election of the mayor of boston. this former nba star who has made several high profile visits to north korea, isaac. >> dennis roden. >> 200 points. >> this is another instant bonus question. when he played in the nba, isaac, what was dennis rodman's nickname? >> dennis rodman's nickname. oh the worm. >> the worm, test. 200 point, 200 point question this prominent catholic university filed suit on tuesday opposing birth control mckay. >> notre dame. >> yes. 200 point question, it was recorded this week one day after he leaves new york city hall, mayor michael bloomberg will

travel to this state to raise money for u.s. senator brian shatz? sally. >> i will go which dennis rodman. >> encorrect. >> out to hawaii for a point to senator brian shatz. isaac has pulled ahead 1,000 point. mckay at 200. samly at negative 600. she is down in lawrence o'donnell territory there. we have 300 point round, though. this is the ph.d. level. lots can change. with the 300 point questions the game will be decided here. we put 1 h. second on the clock. 300 point round begins now...saddled which the worst credit in the country country, this blue state will cut benefits for state workers an save an estimate of $160 billion over the next 30 years. >> state? >> state. >> time, illinois is the answer 300 point question. what emwith theled red state democratic senator launched a

television ad this weaken voking religion and calling the bible his quote north star? >> the music in my ear is really nice. >> arkansas's mark prior. 300 point question after months of speculation, reports surfaced on friday that this long serving mississippi republican snosh -- isake. >> thad cochran. >> will seek apth term. 300 more points. this former new hampshire republican senator announced last sunday that he will seek to challenge democratic incumbent gene shaheen. >> thad cochran. >> encorrect. i notice a pattern here. the former republican senator who would like to challenge gene shaheen, isaac, mckay? >> at least i had an answer. >> bob smith. forrer senator. 300 point question. as a government budget dead lean approaches, which program emerged friday as the possible

derail him in any compromise between congressional budget negotiators? democratic patty murray and paul ryan? >> unemployment benefits. >> 300 point question, congressman randy forbes, according to an article in politico, is pressureing the national republican congressional committee not to financially support republican candidate was are what? sally. >> women? >> no. >> mckay. >> gay. >> gay is correct. 300 pints, that brings us to the end of the gym. final score isaac has tied the all time record which 1,600 point. mckay 500. samly set a r0rd as well which negative -- isaac arc prize pack annual for you. bill walsh will tell you all about it. >> as our champion, will you have your name printed in exquisite sharpee. you will get to take the trophy home which you and show it off to friends, family and local school children for exactly one woke. you will also receive an

appearance this coming week on msnbc's "the cycle," airing wokedays. you will also get to play in our bonus round. for today's grand prize of $50 gift certificate top new jersey serving up the best franks in the greater meadowland's area. being to you, seve steve. >> that is an exciting prize package. congratulations. now we have your jackpot bonus question for that $50 gift certificate. one question. he helped him to create the first democratic elections and went on in mandela's administration was who? >> de klerk. >> correct. f.w. de klerk t. $50 gift certificate. isaac, congratulations, you are

going hut hut the best fried hot dog lace in the greater meadowlands area. 1,600 points. >> that ties the all time record on this show. will you definitely be back for the tournament of champions. br. you see crystal ball way up there. tournament of champions is coming up soon, folks. isaac will definitely be a part of it. i don't want you to think you're leaving us empty-handed. you'll take the home edition back with you. fun for everybody, fun for kids of all ages. we will be back with final thoughts right after this. discover card. hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. good. i hate surprises. surprise! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score.

so when my moderate to severe chronic plaque psoriasis them. was also on display, i'd had it. i finally had a serious talk with my dermatologist. this time, he prescribed humira-adalimumab. humira helps to clear the surface of my skin by actually working inside my body. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance. and the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever,

fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. make the most of every moment. ask your dermatologist about humira, today. clearer skin is possible.

sally? >> i know i can't win a game show. also live on the website. people can find it.

self-promotion. please watch it. >> i think you knew that when we began. mckay. >> amid all the nelson mandela coverage this week there's an interesting piece that goes through some of the quotes that he gave that you won't see in the u.s. media, talking about israel, capitalism, gadhafi. there's really interesting stuff. check it out. >> jonathan? >> something i did know that i don't think the audience knows, nelson mandela was a big gay and lesbian rights supporter. when he became president of south africa, the new constitution in south africa, the first in the world includes discrimination protection for people based on sexual orientation. that came within less than six months of his becoming president. >> i didn't know that. that's amazing. thanks for sharing that. isaac. >> boris johnson, the conservative mayor of london, got in hot water this week. he praised the lords of finance praised greed, and said one of the reasons we have inequality

is because people are too stupid at the bottom, their iqs are too low. then he went on a london radio show and failed an iq test. >> that is one of the greatest postscripts ever. my thanks to you all. new up against the clock champion isaac. all-time high score. very impressive. thanks for joining us today on "up." join us tomorrow morning at 8:00 for a look at the world's love affair with pope francis. i will make the case he'd be right at home on capitol hill. i'll explain that tomorrow. we'll also be talking about carpet bagging. liz cheney and others, five rules for what to d and not to do trying to run in a state you're not actually from. up next is melissa harris-perry to talk about america's increasingly stark income inequality, what is becoming a defining issue of our time. president obama has issued an impassioned call to action. will the gop respond and if so how? that's next in nerd nerd. see you tomorrow at 8:00. thanks for getting up.

there are seniors who have left hundreds of dollars of savings on the table by not choosing the right medicare d plan. no one could have left this much money here. whoo-hoo-hoo! yet many seniors who compare medicare d plans realize they can save hundreds of dollars. cvs/pharmacy wants to help you save on medicare expenses. talk to your cvs pharmacist, call, or go to cvs.com/compare to get your free, personalized plan comparison today. call, go online, or visit your local store today. hands for holding. feet, kicking. better things than the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. if you're trying to manage your ra, now may be the time to ask about xeljanz.

xeljanz (tofacitinib) is a small pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers have happened in patients taking xeljanz. don't start taking xeljanz if you have any kind of infection, unless ok with your doctor. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests, including certain liver tests, before you start and while you are taking xeljanz. tell your doctor if you have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you are pregnant, or plan to be. taken twice daily, xeljanz can reduce the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe ra, even without methotrexate. ask if xeljanz is right for you.

even without methotrexate. [ male announcer ] not all toral-b pro-health toothbrushes have crisscross bristles that remove up to 90% of hard to reach plaque. feel the difference. oral-b, trust the brand more dentists and hygienists use. oral-b. this morning, my question -- are republicans in denial about the country's growing inequality? plus, job numbers shoot up dramatically, but so, too, do demands far living wang. and a tactical shift in the ongoing fight for immigration reform. first understanding the impact and importance of president nelson mandela. >> i pledge to use all my strength and ability to live up to