but least worst. it's wednesday, december 11th, and this is "now." modest is the label most frequently attached to the two-year budget agreement reached by paul ryan and patty murray in a rare moment of bipartisan accord. while the white house called it a good first step, speaking for house democrats this morning, minority leader nancy pelosi offered her own mostly tepid support. >> i thank our conferees for their leadership, their opinions are important to us. members will make their own decisions as to where we go with this. and again, we would have preferred something quite different, but we do recognize the value of coming to a decision so that we can go forward with some clarity on other legislation that we want to see. >> as usual, there appears to be greater division on the right. while "the wall street journal" called it the least bad budget

deal, other conservatives announced they could not stomach the rollback of sequester cuts. >> i'm sure it was the best paul could get, but it's not anything i can support. he has led to make a compromise that sells out what actually needs to be done. >> but the most explosive moment came hours ago when house speaker john boehner responded to criticisms from outside conservative groups, including heritage action, that are advising republicans to abandon the deal. >> most major conservative groups have put out statements blasting this deal. are you -- >> you mean the groups that came out and opposed it before they ever saw it? >> yes, those groups. >> they're using our members and they're using the american people for their own goals. this is ridiculous. listen, if you're for more deficit reduction, you're for this agreement. >> boehner slapped back of the mighty and reactionary far right

undoubtedly in defense of paul ryan, who stands to make his first legislative win if the bill passes. >> look, our budget that we passed here in the house, the republican budget represents our ultimate goal and our ultimate vision, balance the budget, pay off the debt. but we understand in this divided government, we're not going to get everything we want. so what we want to do is take a step toward that goal, a step in the direction toward that vision. >> as it stands beyond touting the least worst aspects of this bill, ryan's main argument to those republican hardliners still on the fence is that the less the party has to deal with budgets and government shutdowns, the more it can focus on, you guessed it, obama care. >> i think they'd like to get off obama care and by not shutting the government down, we're not going to get off obama care. we're going to keep doing our oversight, keep speaking truth to power, keep doing -- sunshining the light on to the problems of this law, and this gets us in a good position. >> the house could vote on the

deal as early as tomorrow before departing for the holidays. the senate will follow next week. joining me today, washington bureau chief of buzz feed, john stanton, washington bureau chief at mother jones, david corn, syndicated columnist for "the washington post," kathleen parker, and former rnc chair, michael steele. chairman steele, i go to you first. i think there were some democrats who let out a yelp of surprise and a cheer to hear speaker boehner repudiate heritage action. i mean, i feel like could this be the beginning of something great? >> i think he's fed up. i think a lot of folks on the hill are fed up. in quiet places and around the corner they'll talk and tell you they're a little annoyed with the way some of the party are behaving, which hamstring them, handcuff them, make it harder for them to actually begin to move something. look, this deal is not a grand bargain. it's more of a bargain basement kind of budget where they just

put the least offensive things they could, cobbled together -- >> the least horrible, semi-okay, passable thing. >> it's a starting point. it gets us through a year where we don't have to worry about debt ceilings and sequester, and it begins to create the kind of leveling effect that paul ryan was talking about. yes, we want to balance the budget and reduce the deficit. $23 billion reduction in the deficit is a start. >> but this is the way divided government is supposed to work. for the last three years, john boehner's not been able to pull this off. and this is like the gop civil war part three. this time it's personal. i mean, after being whipped around by the tea party tail on the boehner dog, he's finally said, okay, enough already. but he could have called a cease to this any time in the previous two years. >> but the house wasn't -- >> but now the question is whether he can actually finally show some spine and pull it off. >> oh, goodness. >> let me say something.

>> go ahead, kathleen. >> john boehner, he needed to let these people learn their own lesson. he was otherwise facing a civil war within his own caucus. so this way he got to say, see what happens when you don't pay attention? >> $25 billion costs the public. great lesson. thank you, john boehner. >> let's let kathleen finish. >> there are a lot of people, and i agree with everything the chairman said. you know, the lesson is you have to come to the center a little bit. a compromise is exactly as you say. you have to give up something you might want more. by the way, the certainty this inserts into the marketplace and into the nation's sense of well being, especially at this time of year, is a great gift. >> and john, let me ask you, in terms of the long-term prognosticating here, from all the sort of reasonable, if slightly -- you know, the underselling of this deal, which is decidedly underwhelming, you know, the heritage statement

before the deal has been voted on. there's discrepancy whether it had been announced or not. heritage action cannot support a budget deal that would increase spending in the near term for promises of woefully inadequate long-term reductions. they're really not a fan of this. tom coburn was on "morning joe." he effectively said that plan was a sellout. the barometer says that this thing will probably pass, but you do wonder how much sway these outside groups still have with some parts of the party in congress. >> certainly in the house there's a group of maybe 40 guys that are lock stock with that. they're not going to move away from that. but i think the two things with these groups, they haven't really had much of an impact in primaries, although everyone sort of seems to think they have. everybody assumes that they have knocked out all these house members and senate members. in reality, they've only done it once or twice. i think people are starting to come to that realization. but i think the other thing

about this deal in particular is it was paul ryan. paul ryan has a cachet with his members that john boehner doesn't have. they all trust him. they believe in him in terms of his conservatives bona fides. the fact he's the face of this thing is what's made it possible for republicans to agree with it and for boehner to step out a bit against the conservatives and say back off. >> and that was -- i feel like that was the mama bear coming to protect -- i will say, chairman, after what happened to marco rubio, and i think that was a lesson for a lot of moderate republicans, here's this guy, young sort of face of the gop seen as a future rising star. goes out there, constructs this bipartisan legislation, it passes in the senate, then dies in the house. he has had to spend the better part of the year making up for that and effectively apologizing to conservatives in his own party. >> one of the differences was how that was constructed versus how this was constructed in the sense that ryan kept a lot of the members of the house, particularly those who were

concerned about how this would turn out, in the loop. that was not the case with rubio. there was a different dynamic at play here. there are lessons learned from the rubio experience that ryan has put into effect here that i think will work to his benefit in the end. this is the early noise. everyone comes out, stakes their ground, you know. >> everybody pees on the ground just a little bit. >> this is my spot, don't get upset. >> well, not the girls. >> they can if they want. but marco rubio, the lesson he learned, he's against this deal. >> right. >> because the other guys competing in 2016 to get to the right of him on this tea party matter. you have jim demint out there. republicans still have not -- >> they will have to grow up, david, to understand that everything is not about a primary. at some point you're going to have to govern this country. you're going to have to set a

path and stick to it. that's what boehner's trying to do. that's what ryan's trying to do. grow up, get behind these guys, get the deal in place and get past this moment so the country can relax and get to job creation. >> but there are a lot of peter pans in this party. >> let me ask you a question, david corn, about the actual deal. >> policy? >> well, here we're talking about the right. there's been very little said on the left. i mean, the white house is sort of saying, this it fine. nancy pelosi says, we'll take it. i think, actually, you know, there's some progressives out there that would like to see a little more reaction and a more clearer sort of directive as far as the bad parts of this bill and the fact that long-term unemployment insurance is not in it. >> the unemployment's not in it. you get nothing for the debt ceiling fight, which may come up again. also, a lot of the deficit reduction is taken on the backs of people in the military or federal workers. there's not a single corporate loophole that's been closed. so we're going to say, okay, we're going to give some savings

here, but it's from people who are working for us in the military or in the federal government. and there's no shared, you know, sacrifice as the president called for. >> so where's the left on that? >> and that -- >> but the left -- again and again the democrats have been willing to recognize in divided government you make compromise and don't get everything you want. it's the republicans -- >> let me say something here. john, i'd like to get your thoug thoughts. in the process, as democrats have said, okay, we'll cede this part of our ground to congress in the name of getting something done, which is nancy pelosi whipping the house democrats and saying, listen, we're going to push this through. but in the process of that, i mean, the goalposts have moved right. i want to bring up our chart of the various budgets. can we bring up the chart? the original -- president obama's original budget, $1.235 trillion. the senate democrat budget, $1.058 trillion. the senate cr was 986.

that's a little lower. undoubtedly, compared to where we were -- we didn't even put the house progressive caucus budget on there because it wouldn't fit on the graph. we are way closer to where paul ryan wanted to be than we are to where nancy pelosi would like to be. >> exactly. >> democrats have done a terrible, terrible job of making that case to the public, i think, over the last three years. they vnts gone out and sort of convinced the public of, look, we've moved way to the right on these issues we've talked about. we've talked about cutting spending. instead, the public still sort of sees them as the traditional tax and spend democrats. they have not done a very good job of making their case. i think by allowing republicans to define the terms of this engagement, they find themselves stuck here. i think progressives are looking at this and saying, we'd like to be able to get more out of this, but we really can't. >> i would just make one observation. i think this is all part of the republican reformation in a

sense. they're trying to reform, you know, their image in the public after the disaster of the government shutdown and all that. and they also recognize that they're kind of winning right now. what they do not want to attach themselves to is any kind of creation of another crisis. so, you know, here we are. they've got a budget. they've agreed to it. they're moving toward the center or at least by all appearances. now they can, as you said, focus on obama care, which is still not terribly popular. >> it's reminding children that if they eat their broccoli, they get to have cookies. >> that's right. >> which effectively is what obama care is. >> the metaphor people who like him always use is that he's a coach. he sends out his best players. he's obviously, you know -- paul ryan is their bright boy. they send him out and boehner can be the tough guy on the sidelines. and many republicans think those people are killing the party. >> i think many democrats do

too. there's one thing that everyone at this table can agree on. it is that heritage action deserves to be put in its place. it was nice to see, for however briefly, that happen in holiday season. on that note, we'll take a break. when we come back, the person of the year is not miley cyrus. john stanton is very disappointed about that. we'll discuss francis, the people's pope, next on "now." [ male announcer ] the new new york is open. open to innovation. open to ambition. open to bold ideas. that's why new york has a new plan -- dozens of tax free zones all across the state. move here, expand here, or start a new business here and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and grows more businesses... we're open to it.

start a tax-free business at startup-ny.com. we know we're not the center of your life, but we'll do our best to help you connect to what is. it's been that way since the day you met. but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity.

do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.

the man has been a janitor, a chemical technician, a teacher of literature, and a nightclub bouncer. his name is not david corn.

because now, just nine months after taking over the papacy, jorge bergoglio, otherwise known as pope francis, is "time's" person of the year. pope francis has decried the church's focus on abortion, contraception and same-sex marriage, opened the door to the gay community and challenged the greed of capitalism. what makes this pope so important is with the speed in which he's captured the imagination of millions who had given up on the church. he's elevated the healing mission of the church. the church as servant and comforter of hurting people until an often harsh work. competing for the title of person of the year, pope francis beat out texas senator ted cruz, syrian president bashar al assad, marriage equality act vikt edie windsor, former nsa contractor edward snowden. joining us to discuss this and

so much more "time" magazine's washington bureau chief michael scherer. always great to see you, even though it's always on remote. we're so happy to have you today on this big day, which is almost sort of like an election day for "time" magazine. it is, in fact, an election day because this was by vote, was it not? >> and for the record, i was pulling for miley cyrus at every meeting i was in. >> you were ready to twerk is what we heard. >> i was planning on it, yeah. >> tell us a little bit about the internal debate in and around this. we had one here, actually, over edward snowden versus the pope. it was very much a battle between the heart and the mind on some level. >> yeah, i think it was a very close call. you list the five names there, but really there were two that were competing for the top spot. these are two people who nobody really knew the name of. nobody in the world basically knew the name of either of them at this time last year. both came on the scene surprisingly. both have totally transformed

the conversation in their respective areas. and they're very different areas. we look at snowden's impact on diplomacy, technology, legal challenges in the u.s. and congressional reforms. if you look at the pope's impact, especially in the southern hemisphere in the social debate that's taking place there. both are impacting billions of people. but in the end, the editors made the decision that if the criteria is influence, the most influence over the course of the year, that the pope edged him out. but i would ask everyone who's watching to read both stories. i think, you know, you can have one person of the year, but both stories are worth reading. >> one for each story. >> and of course one of those stories was written by michael scherer. it's a great story. >> a great journalist. >> what's interesting about those two story, the one michael wrote about ed snowden seemed to me to be a lot longer than the one about pope francis because it went through all the various ways that snowden's revelations

had influenced his area. it was very complicated. >> a massive, massive amount of data. >> it took a lot longer to explain his full impact on society than it was to explain the pope, which is in a lot of ways through some boymbolic act. >> just to correct that, both pieces are roughly the same length. there's an intro piece much shorter for the pope. >> kathleen, you've written about the pope and how the left and the right project different things on to him. you made the point in one of your pieces that he's the pope, not the president. so perhaps we should temper our feelings in and around his political views a little bit. but i personally was shocked at this man -- and i remember watching in our office when they announced it was going to be pope francis, jorge bergoglio, thinking, who is that? you know, he was not one of the

front runners. in such a short time, with complete confidence, has rejected so much of the pomp and circumstance of the vatican, has snuck out at night to minister to the homeless, has been completely unafraid of pursuing this very jesuit ideology within the catholic framework that's all about the poor, the downtrodden, the needy, and in a way seems like a repudiation of previous popes. >> he's shockingly christian. >> how refreshing. >> how refreshing. he's given up the red slippers, given up the papal vestments. putting on his sensible black shoes and sneaking out in the middle of the night to minister. >> in a ford focus. >> yeah, in a ford focus. i am crazy about him. i think most people are because he's just -- he is just so refreshing. it's interesting, you know, the left is so relieved because finally a personal is speaking with open heart. i don't know why that's a left position, but it involves people

who are, you know, gays and it's not so judgmental toward people who have made choices that the church does teach against. then you've got conservatives who are riled up because he's actually open hearted. you know, so i don't get it. but anyway, it's a delight to watch him do his thing. >> it's a bit like, in my mind, like average bishop romero in el salvador in the '80s. he was brought in when there was this huge conflict going on. they thought, well, we'll bring in this guy because he's sort of a book nerd and he'll hold things down. i think that's what people thought about him. romero started working with the rebels, working with the poor. he became a vocal force within the country. to a certain dedegree, the vatin maybe made the same mistake in some people's minds or a good decision. >> i want to take a slight exception to your idea that this pope's actions, symbolic though they are, but substantive in

many ways, are repudiation of his predecessors. in fact, i see them linking back to his predecessors in a profound way. john paul ii, his papacy was about the reform of the reform. the reform since vatican ii, giving it context, giving it the substance that was missing post vatican ii. benedict was much more dock trial. his was taking the reform and giving it basis through theology and through church teaching. this pope is now taking and relating it back in a human way and saying, look, it's a full circle. now you are called to live out the gospel. so when he repudiates the german bishop, he's saying, you don't understand, you're not here about being a church in the prince. you are the lowest of the low. you serve those who need to be

served. you are a servant. i think it's a very different context he's giving the church now, an appropriate and necessary one. >> he's dropped the scolding, which i think to people who are not part of the church is a huge thing. a humble element. again, the emphasis on social justice as opposed to, you know, social conservative values, which he hasn't repudiated the church teachings on abortion and gay marriage. they stay the same, but the way he talks about it is a lot different. there's a lot more tolerance, which i think is more of a liberal value than a conservative value. >> but the church hasn't talked about those things in recent history. >> in terms of influence, which was a decided metric in all of this, you know, i think "time" -- you yourself said that polling in the u.s. doesn't necessarily show that, you know, catholic behavior has been necessarily changed by pope francis or that there are more people going to the church now. so how did you -- i mean, influence in this case seems to be very intangible. how did you discuss that? >> well, i think the influence of this pope is not most directly felt in the united states or even in europe.

i think it's happening in the global south. it's, i think, also not measured directly in terms of how many people attend church or even just among catholics. i think one of the things you see him doing right now is taking one of the oldest, most entrenched hire our call institutions at a time when there are none which anyone believes in anymore for the most part and really re-energizing it with some basic populism, you know, with things people are being attracted to. i think that, not just this year, but in years going forward could have huge implications. in african country, south american countries where it's still, you know, homosexuality is still considered a crime. to have the pope come out with significant gay populations come out and say, i'm going to judge the sinner is a huge deal. that's not something that shows

up in pew counts. >> both with snowden and the pope, their biggest influence is out of the states. >> well, i think we're going to have congressional reform through intelligence next year. there are a number of core cases that could have huge implications in the u.s. the president is going to have reforms coming out. there's going to be a lot of changes here in terms of intelligence and how we do it because of snowden. >> so you're saying maybe next year edward snowden. >> or miley cyrus. >> holding out hope. michael scherer, thank you as always. coming up, in a landscape characterized by partisan gridlock, political self-skbres and the lure of cush lobbying jobs, it's rare to find a lawmaker who has the virtues of public service. there's at least one legislator who gets it. we'll introduce you to her.

she's the latest in our series about people doing the right thing and she's next. [ male announcer ] they say it was during an arm wrestling match that mr. clean realized the way to handle bigger, tougher messes was better leverage. that's why he created his new magic eraser handy grip. it has a handle that firmly attaches to the eraser so you get better leverage and more oomph with less effort. it's the perfect magic eraser for making stuff that's big and tough not so tough, after all. mr. clean's handy grip -- the newest member of the magic eraser family. in all purpose and bath. [ engine revs ] in all purpose and bath. but with less energy, moodiness, and a low sex drive,y first. i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron. the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women especially those who are or who may become pregnant

and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting and increase in psa. ask your doctor about axiron. ♪ ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit. ♪

say it with milk-bone.

in july of 2012, a man walked into a colorado movie theater and opened fire, killing 12 people and injuring 70 others. then last december the unthinkable happened when 20-year-old adam lanza entered sandy hook elementary school in newtown, connecticut, and shot and killed 26 people, including 20 children. even in the wake of these gruesome tragedies, congress failed to act. despite the fact that nearly 89% of americans support background checks on gun purchases, including 74% of a nra members, this april, 41 republicans and 5 democrats blocked the senate from passing legislation that would have expanded background checks. elsewhere in the country, however, the reaction was different. this year 21 states put tougher

gun safety measures on the books, and some of the strongest were in the rocky mountain state of colorado. with sandy hook, aurora, and l columbine fresh in their minds, they passed three landmark gun safety laws, requiring background checks on all gun sales and banning high-capacity magazines. in march, governor john hickenlooper signed the bills into law. furious at a state government that had dared to loosen the iron grip of the gun lobby, the nra launched an effort to oust democratic elected state senators john morse and angela giron. they lost their seats in september, aided in no small part by conservative led efforts to prohibit mail-in ballots, despite the fact that 88% of coloradans mailed in their ballots during the 2012 election cycle. the nra's recall dramatically

changed the power balance in the state senate and gave colorado democrats the edge by only one seelt. spurred on by their win, the gun lobby went back for more. weeks later, faced with yet another recall, one that could have handed republicans the majority, colorado state senator evie hudock resigned from her seat on the day before thanksgiving. by resigning, she allowed governor hickenlooper to appoint a democrat to her seat, thus ensuring that the state's gun safety measures will be allowed to stand. a mother and long-time teacher initially got into politics as an educator. she served as a member of the colorado state board of education for eight years and oversaw colorado's early childhood school readiness program. and she, like so many others in her state, was affected by the mass shootings that had taken place in her backyard. as she wrote in her resignation letter, most coloradans believe that the convenience of high-capacity ammunition magazines is less important than

saving lives in traj dislike sandy hook, aurora, and columbi columbine. doing what she felt was the right thing for the people of colorado, she tendered her resignation, packed her boxes, and yesterday closed the door on her office in the state capitol. but her departure did not go unnoticed. >> you did the right thing and nobody can take that away from you. >> unlike the legions of congressmen who turn their backs on capitol hill only to train their eyes on the coffers of k street, she has no job lined up after her resignation, but her choice isn't just significant in its professional sacrifice or the policies it protects or the lives it will save. it is also important because of the example it sets. in an era when congress cannot pass life-saving, broadly supported legislation because of fear of retribution from a well-financed lobby, a two-term colorado state senator has shown the country that politics at its core is about principle. for that, edie is a true champ.

. [ female announcer ] we eased your back pain... ♪ ready or not. [ female announcer ] ...so you can be up there. here i come! [ female announcer ] ...down there, around there... and under there for him. tylenol® provides strong pain relief and won't irritate your stomach the way aleve® or even advil® can. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol®.

so i deserve a small business credit card with amazing rewards. with the spark cash card from capital one, i get 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. i break my back around here. finally someone's recognizing me with unlimited rewards! meetings start at 11, cindy. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? i need your timesheets, larry!

this saturday will mark the one-year anniversary of the deadly shooting at sandy hook elementary. a massacre that took the lives of 26, including 20 children. the town of newtown, the site of the shooting, requested privacy this week, and instead asked that people mark the tragedy with acts of kindness. yesterday vice president joe biden met with families of shooting victims as well as mental health advocates to announce $100 million in funding for community health centers. but the tragedy that many hoped would unite the nation around gun safety reform has since given away to division. in the wake of newtown and the shooting in aurora, last year 1500 pieces of safety legislation have been introduced since then. of those laws, just 145, less than 10%, actually passed. but the majority were not background checks or assault

weapons bans, rather 74 of the laws passed made it easier for people to purchase guns. as further evidence of right-wing entraction on basic gun safety measures and in a shocking display of tastelessness, on the day of the newtown anniversary, republican congressman ted yoho plans to host a family firearms safety event. it is worth noting that, according to the congressman's spokesperson, the date was, quote, not planned to coincide with the sandy hook ann ver-- anniversary. david, if you look at what has happened in the wake of these horrible mass shootings, it is still shocking to me that the states with the highest gun death rates also have the weakest gun laws. that's montana, wyoming, nevada, arizona, new mexico -- >> it must just be a coincidence. there's so much to unpack over what happened in the last year. people really thought, even

republicans who joined with democrats in the senate, for a very bipartisan, moderate bill about gun safety issues, that this tragic event would lead to some change. but instead, what we see is expansion of the availability of guns and the ability to buy guns and own guns. no real restraints except in a few places like colorado where people then lost their jobs for supporting this. at mother jones we have a story out this week. since newtown, 194 kids under the age of 12 have been lost to gun violence. through all sorts of different ways, but most of them within families because of disputes or accidents. so that's another ten newtowns in the last year. we still are unable, even though it's popular, to get really any major change on this front. >> and what we're starting to see, kathleen, is -- i mean, and you're seeing this almost on every major piece of legislation or policy platform, which is a division between red and blue. i mean, you increasingly have

red states that have their ideas about guns, blue states that have their ideas about guns. i don't want to oversell division, but this -- guns in particular. let's set aside the aca, which is a very divisive piece of legislation. it shocks me that given the broad support in the nra for this that not more could have been done this year. >> you know, the red/blue divide is significant here. it has to do with people's experience with guns and around guns. i grew up in the south, and guns were part of life. we didn't use them to shoot each other, but people generally had guns in their households. in new york city, where populations are so much denser, you don't want anyone to have a gun. but in the country, if i'm living alone out in a little farmhouse, which is not out of the realm of possibilities, i might want an automatic weapon to protect myself against three escaped convicts. who knows. i mean, obviously i think there

are reasonable ways to address this, but that's why you have so much division in those demographics. >> michael, even when we're not talking about the actual guns themselves, we're talking about background checks, right. that's what we were talking about in congress. you would think -- gun owners themselves want people who have guns to be the ones that have passed safety checks. >> well, i think this issue, unlike so many others, really crystallize crystallizes, at least for me, the influence of special interest and how much they controlled this discussion. this was a 90% issue, not just in the immediate aftermath of sandy hook but long thereafter. i mean, seven, eight months afterwards you still have polling that high. and yet, not a democrat nor republican in congress could break that stranglehold on moving the legislation and getting something done. i think it's a sad place for the country. i think as someone who's a

supporter of the second amendment, who thinks it's reasonable to require background checks, that mindset has to come more to the floor i think in the future if you really want to deal with the aftermath. >> but the problem with background checks, and i'm all for it. why wouldn't you be for it? it doesn't affect these tragedies. these events, these big, cataclysmic events would not have been otherwise had there been background checks. >> which brings to -- and we should talk about this because it's important. biden's announcement yesterday about mental health. first of all, what happens after these tragedies is two things. we talk about mental health and gun safety reform. neither one tend to actually -- we see the needle move not much on either one. the fact it's $100 million to community mental health centers, we recently a few weeks ago got more information from adam lanza's computer, which detail a very mentally disturbed young man. insofar as it keeps the conversation around mental health and what could be done and what kind of resourcing this

is, i think the vice president is doing something important. >> he is. you know, that's the one sort of slice of this that can get traction, i think, in congress. you look at republicans and democrats, both think there should be more spending on mental health, making sure these situations don't happen again. you know -- >> wait, let me push back on that for a second. the aca is a big driver of providing mental health services for people. i mean, that's a piece of aca. 62 million americans gain mental health and substance abuse benefits. >> but obama care is basically the same thing for republicans as gun control. they hear those words and say no. they're never going to agree to those things because they look at it as opening the door to something more. that's why they look at the -- >> doing background checks is opening the door. >> don't forget the gun show loophole as well. just trying to close that. >> or not even allowing -- like the senate trying to pass a bill that got rid of printed guns.

they couldn't do that because members say this is a back door way to begin to expand regulation and to control us. the nra and their allies, who have done a good job in the last 20 years of convincing the public that's that what that is. >> but it hasn't been. >> i think that's the key piece of this. >> it's paranoia. >> what those extra groups have been able to do to frame the argument that makes something as simple as background checks seem onerous and foreboding if not, you know, destructive to your second amendment rights. >> it's paranoia to make money. let's not avoid the real realities here. that's what they're doing. >> i would also say there is no factual basis for the notion that there are going to be paratroopers in black coming to seize your guns. yet, somehow it has been perpetuated. >> i don't know about that. >> you might have to talk to elian gonzalez about that. >> the right-hand side of the table disagrees. we had unify for a second there.

coming up, an rnc official goes there t reportedly making anti-gay remarks at a gop holiday party. but a funny thing happened in the aftermath of his incendiary and bigoted comments. a prominent republican condemned them. we'll take a look next. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligations. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. they're made of 88% active ingredients. and the competition clocks in at 13%. so with tide pods, you know what you get, and what you get is an amazing clean. so try tide pods.

why? the proof is in the pop. so try ♪ de pods. ♪ i know they say you can't go home again ♪ ♪ ♪ i just had to come back one last time ♪ ♪ ♪ you leave home, you move on [ squeals ] ♪ and you do the best you can ♪ i got lost in this old world ♪ ♪ and forgot who i am congestion, for the smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the buses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution into the air. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment.

hands for holding. feet, kicking. better things than the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. if you're trying to manage your ra, now may be the time to ask about xeljanz. xeljanz (tofacitinib) is a small pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers have happened in patients taking xeljanz. don't start taking xeljanz if you have any kind of infection, unless ok with your doctor. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests, including certain liver tests, before you start and while you are taking xeljanz. tell your doctor if you have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c,

or are prone to infections. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you are pregnant, or plan to be. taken twice daily, xeljanz can reduce the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe ra, even without methotrexate. ask if xeljanz is right for you. michigan governor rick snyder is the later republican attempting to dial back offensive comments made by someone in his party. the culprit this time, michigan rnc committee member and former state representative dave agema said at a holiday party last week, folks, they, gay people, want free medical because they're dying between 30 and 44 years old. the spokesperson calls the remarks extreme and discriminatory and told "the huffington post," there shouldn't be room for that in any political party, we must

make sure everyone is treated with respect and civility. agema is not a first-time offender. in march of this year, he posted an article on his facebook page that warned of the, quote, homosexual agenda, which was trying to get the public to affirm their, quote, filthy lifestyle. after the break, the south african government now says it is investigating claims that the man who provided sign language interpretation at yesterday's nelson mandela memorial for hours in front of millions of people was a fake. we will discuss next.

we know we're not the center of your life, but we'll do our best to help you connect to what is.

yesterday's memorial service for nelson mandela was full of faux pas and faux paws, like hands, paws. president obama was caught taking a selfie and shaking hands with cuban president raul castro. but it turns out there was one

very real, very big faux pas during yesterday's memorial, and it was visible to everyone around the world. it turns out that the sign language interpreter at yesterday's event was a complete fraud, signing absolutely nothing, mere hand gestures hour after hour for four hours. the national director of the deaf federation of south africa said the man at yesterday's event was, quote, moving his hands around, but there was no meaning in what he use td his hands for. officials in the deaf community said the man was literally flapping his arms around. kathleen, we were laughing. like, it's a mixture of indignation and shock and disbelief that this could happen for four hours. and apparently this same sign language interpreter did the same thing -- we shouldn't even call him a sign language interpreter it -- at another jacob zuma event before. it is shocking to me. >> it's utterly shocking. i don't even know what to say about it, except why would anybody do that?

>> yes. and you, john, volunteered that perhaps this is, like, some kind of -- some form of meta humor we're not -- >> it's andy kauffman. this is his trick on the world. he's not actually dead and he's this guy. >> i think he's somebody's brother and there's a little under the table payment here. i can tell you, it takes a lot of nerve -- it takes a lot of nerve to go out there for three hours and do all this and make things up. the sun is going down, big man speaking here. >> it's like outrageous. >> how do you think you'll get away with this is what i want to know. >> and how did no one pick up the phone and say, i hate to tell you, but that guy is not saying anything. >> people were tweeting. >> but it is -- not to be overly serious, if you had done this and i did this for you earlier so you could pretend to laugh, again, but if you did this at the u.n. security council and had a french translator like,

people would be furious. it's a testament to people with hearing disabilities. their protests were ignored to the degree. there are two deaf members of the south african parliament who said this is complete gibberish. no one listened to them for four hours. >> there was no hook. >> there should have been. i do think it is, you know, an abdication of some kind of major responsibility. >> do you suppose it was a, you know, special signal, it was code to someone we don't know about yet? >> perhaps, i'm doing this. >> maybe edward snowden. >> all i can say is -- >> exactly. i will say in closing, david, that perhaps they should have used -- what's her name? lydia -- i can't -- lydia what? mayor bloomberg's signer. that's a woman who gets the job done, david corn. >> yes, she was on "saturday night live." they did her on "saturday night live." she's expressive. she communicates. >> she's speaking in language.

>> she knows what she's doing. >> i can say probably with some certainty that this man will have his moment on "saturday night live" in a spoof. >> oh, guaranteed. >> all right. that's it for us today. thank you to john, david, kathleen, and michael. that is all for "now." joy reid will be taking the reins are tomorrow. "andrea mitchell reports" is coming up next. [ grandma ] with new fedex one rate, i could fill a box and ship it for one flat rate. so i knit until it was full. you'd be crazy not to. is that nana? [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain. this is humira helping me through the twists and turns. this is humira helping to protect my joints from further damage. doctors have been prescribing humira for over ten years.

humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. for many adults, humira is proven to help relieve pain and stop further joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer, have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira , your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection. ask your doctor if humira can work for you. this is humira at work.

did you ever think a piece of legislation you were responsible for would be called not conservative enough? >> it's a strange new normal, isn't it? >> a strange new normal indeed. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," the deal makers. congressman paul ryan and senator patty murray strike a deal across party lines, upsetting critics on both sides. can it survive? i asked senator murray in my exclusive interview. >> i think we set a path forward

for all of us in congress to take a step back and applaud bipartisanship in a bipartisan conference in a bipartisan government and recognize that's how we have to accomplish things today. >> hitting the reset button. a new nbc news wall street journal poll shows health care has the single biggest issue driving down the president's popularity. will his new hires help him reboot from the health care rollout? >> down the line that cost -- >> we're just going to agree to disagree. it's like talking to the republic of korea or something. >> the long good-bye. thousands of mourners today lining the streets in pretoria to pay tribute to nelson mandela to celebrate his legacy. >> he's done so much, not only for me, but for my family, for the country, and even for the world. so today is just a special occasion for me. and person of the year. the pope beats out a tea