school, his words there. and at this point, it appears as if the situation there is over. again, breaking news right now in colorado. a shooting at a high school. reportedly leaving at least two people injured. the gunman dead. all of this going down at arapaho high school. that's at scentennial, colorado south of denver, not far from columbine high school. we have been watching footage from kusa, showing students evacuated from that high school. we have been seeing the images there of students with their hands raised, students being patted down by police. we should point out, all of this, of course, taking place about eight miles east of columbine high school. also in that same area, of course, you know, aurora, colorado, not far from here, either of the nbc's pete williams has been watching all of this very closely. pete joins me live now with more. pete, what more can you tell us? >> reporter: the main point, i think, is the one you just made,

the danger is over, according to law enforcement authorities. although the picture you're looking at is now the results of the standard protocol they use. they're very familiar with this in colorado. they clear the school, bring the students outside, they search the mall, just to make sure nobody else got outside with a weapon. but according to law enforcement authorities, a student armed with a gun came to the school today, apparently intending to confront a teacher. the teacher was able to get out of the school. at least one student was shot by the gunman. that student is in serious condition. police then at some point later shot the student who had the gun, and killed the student. the authorities would only say the student is male. they referred to him as "he" but said they are still in the process of talking to relatives, so they haven't identified him yet. there is one other injury that they know of, but the injury is so minor that they say they don't even know whether it was a gunshot or something else in

the -- in all the effort to get people out, whether there was an injury from that. so we don't know much more than this. other than the fact that the danger is over. we don't know what sort of weapon it was that was brought in. and i'm sure that in the hours to come, the police will say more about how a student was able to get a gun into a school, and what kind of a weapon it was, and we'll learn more about what this was. >> pete, stand by for me. i also want to bring in tom costello, as well, down in d.c. tom, you were -- i understand a student at this particular high school. you went to arapaho high school. what more can you tell us about the high school? >> yeah, this is my high school. i graduated there many moons ago, unfortunately. this is a school about 2,200, the south side of metro denver, called centennial. serviced by the arapaho county sheriff's department on the south side of town. you've got multiple assistance

today from littleton pd, south metro fire and rescue, as well as the littleton fire department. i have a good deal of -- a good number of friends working for these various departments, and since columbine, which, by the way, columbine high school is probably about nine, ten miles away. since that episode, there was a concerted evident in the metro denver area, but especially in the littletop area, the arapaho and jefferson county areas, to immediately come up with a way to how are we going to actively deal with a shooter next time. we're not going to wait on the outside, like they did in the case of columbine. in this case, you heard the sheriff, grayson robertson, also, by the way, a friend of mine. the sheriff talking about how immediately the very first officers on the scene this afternoon ran into the building to confront the suspect. no longer waiting back for resources, and more officers. in this case, the new protocol en gagage as rapidly as possibl. the students were shelltering

inside their various classrooms and wings. i was listening to the s.w.a.t. team talking about methodically going through this particular school. and students were in the band room and sheltering in the science wing and sheltering waiting for the all-clear. and it wasn't until sheriff's deputies came into these particular areas and then escorted the students out this they were allowed to leave. you also saw scenes earlier in which the kids coming out of the school came out with their hands up, and they were frisked or at least observed by an officer out there on the field to ensure that that student wasn't in any way a suspect. that's all part of the protocol here ever since columbine. but, of course, the denver metro area has had more than its share of this type of violence. the aurora theater shooting is probably 15 miles away as the crow flies from arapaho high school. columbine, of course, is an incident. and then you had several down in the colorado springs area. you know, despite the fact that i grew up in the could and live

in washington, as a coloradoan, i often ask myself, why us? why does colorado seem to have so many of these instances? and i don't think there is a good answer. >> you know, we're expecting another news conference here, and i believe two hours from now we're supposed to get another news conference from sheriff robinson. and as you indicated, tom, we saw the -- we saw the images of the students leaving that high school there. your high school, hands in the air. lessons, unfortunately, that have been learned the hard way. it's very difficult to watch scenes like this. and it's certainly -- perhaps even more difficult to watch them today. here we are, just one day before that somber anniversary, of course, a year ago tomorrow. >> yeah. >> the shooting in newtown, connecticut. the shooting at sandy hook elementary. and then something like this. and, again, you know, at this point we're still waiting to learn a great deal more

hopefully about the shooter. at this point, all we know, according to the sheriff there, the shooter, a male student, took the gun inside the school there. believed -- at this point, it looks like he was going to attempt to confront a teacher. and the student at this point -- we think, according to the sheriff, the student took his own life. tom, what do people in that part of colorado -- what do they say about that area unfortunately now becoming commonly associated with scenes like this? >> well, i'll tell you. this is -- if there is any part of me that is, you know -- when you get to my core, this is home for me. this is where i grew up. and i still have dear friends there, and my parents live not far away. my brother lives not far away. when the helicopter pulled out to a wide shot, i could see my house that i grew up in. >> wow. >> i can tell you that, you know, this is -- this cuts to the quick for people in colorado, who ask these questions. you know, why?

and, of course, listen, we've had 14 years since columbine to ask that question over and over again. why did that happen? why has every other school shooting across the country happened? why did aurora happen? and, of course, there is no one simple answer, is there? there are a whole variety of answers, and oftentimes it depends on who you're talking to, and what their particular position is on everything from mental health issues to gun rights, to what have you. but i'll just tell you, it's sickening. and as i was sitting here preparing to go on the air and listening to our kusa coverage, the station in denver, i was getting just choked up. because this -- you know, if this weren't happening where my kids go to school right now in this area, metro washington, d.c., there's no school that is closer to my heart than this one and i was getting choked up watching this. in addition to what i told you about how the active shooter response team from the arapaho county sheriff's department has dramatically changed their approach the last 14 years ago.

i was having breakfast with the colorado bureau of investigation, and his assistant director. these people are still close to me. and they were talking about how the entire approach has changed. littleton and arapaho county took lessons from columbine to heart. i was listening to the fire rescue traffic a short time ago. and before they knew everybody was out, they were calling for activating the emergency medical mass casualty system. they have put in place a very sophisticated system to respond to situations like that. and they all hope they would never have to have another. or they would never have another. and, of course, we're still hoping this one -- that we don't have any students who are more seriously wounded. but, you know, it's just -- i don't think anybody has any answers on this. and everybody will be wondering what was the student's gripe, what was the issue, why did this happen? >> tom, stand by for a quick second. we want to listen in to our affiliate, kusa's interview, and

hear sheriff grayson robinson. >> might be the first line of students walking to the buses that are being staged nearby there, leaving the athletic field now. and as we told you in the early going, as we have watched so many of these -- >> we missed that interview. we'll rerack and play that interview back from our viewers. but we can tell you, again, that right now, according to the sheriff there, the injured student -- the one student who is described by our own pete williams a short time ago, that student is in serious condition. apparently he was wounded when he confronted the armed student. again, this is koaccording to a wire copy from the associated press. but according to folks on the scene, the student who was hurt was apparently shot when he tried -- when he tried to interfere, perhaps, with the shooting. also, we can tell you that according to to our folks down at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, the

president has been briefed about the situation at arapaho high school. the white house is going to remain in touch with federal, state and local partners. at this point, let's bring in clint van zandt, hostage negotiator. and clint, you know, i tell you, it seems like it was just yesterday, i was talking to you on the air about another school shooting. about a year ago. >> yeah. craig, the unfortunate thing is, we have to continue to cover these. and i've had the opportunity to listen to you talk to other guests. and there is a number of challenging issues right now. we're getting multiple reports. one report suggests that the gunman was a student who committed suicide. we've had a second report that he was shot by responding officers. you know, this always happens. we always get conflicting reports, conflicting sources of information. but what we do know is one more

time, colorado appears to have suffered again. and i know that you and i have done a lot of soul-searching and trying to understand this. and, of course, whether you're pro gun or anti gun, these are going to bring out a lot of different sentiments. but what we do know is that there are a lot of people who see a firearm as a way to resolve some type of conflict, a means of conflict resolution. in this particular case, we're told early on it was between a student and perhaps a teacher. and that others have intervened. craig, as you were saying, 14 years. most of the students in this school weren't even alive. all they have is what they've read and what they have heard people talk about. now, unfortunately, they have their own memories to deal with. >> do i still have tom costello in d.c.? are you still there? >> reporter: yeah, i'm here. >> tom, what can you tell us about the gun culture in that particular part of colorado?

>> reporter: well, you know -- >> not to speculate. >> reporter: colorado is in many ways kind of a split state now. it's not all red and it's not all blue. i mean, if you look at the denver metro area, you know, the denver metro area is traditionally a little more liberal, a little more embracing of gun control measures than you have on the rest of the state. and that's why you have seen as colorado passed this gun control measure about a year ago or so, there was a recall of two state senators who participated in that, because in some parts of the state, that's unpopular. rural parts of the state where people are farming and rarchling and that kind of thing. but as you get into the bigger cities, of denver and boulder in particular, there is, you know -- it is more of an environment, of course -- these are cities that have had to deal with more gun violence than the rural areas. but they turn to legislative

action and trying to get gun control. colorado is torn on this issue. even dear friends of mine are on both sides of this issue in colorado. and arapaho county, colorado, is known as a swing county. not only as goes arapaho county does so go the state in terms of political elections, but very often, as goes arapaho county, so goes the rest of the country. it is not hard right, it is not hard left. they're pretty much right down the middle on a variety of issues. very, very forward-thinking county that has very, very proactive and forward-thinking police department, fire department, paramedic systems, hospitals, what have you. really on the cutting edge in many ways. and so, you know, this is -- this county in particular, if you could say is this county, does it feel one way or the other on gun control? no, i would suspect knowing

arapaho county, probably right down the middle, depending who you talk to. >> today was the left day of regular classes before final exams next week at arapaho high school. the images on the left side of your screen there, the track you see there, that is where roughly 2,000 students were told -- were taken as they left the school. you could see them with their hands in the air. their hands were raised. they were following what's unfortunately become protocol. many high schools -- many high schools around this country undergo throughout the course of the year a number of drills, where they practice precisely what you were seeing play out on television right now. we can also tell you that we're told, according to the sheriff there, according to sheriff grayson robinson, that the students are going to leave that track. they are going to be, as you can see, happening on the left side of your screen, they're going to be boarded on to school buses and taken to a nearby church, shepard of the hills church. taken to that church.

and at that point, they are going to be reunited with mothers and fathers who are going to be very, very thankful to see them on this friday afternoon. retired atf agent and security analyst, james cavanaugh, joins me live now. james, what exactly are teachers and administrators -- how are they prepared for what we're seeing right now? >> well, i think they're better prepared, sadly to say, than we have ever been before. and certainly in colorado, as tom costello said. but all around the country, this -- colorado has had a sad history of this. and their schools have been in the vanguard, leading the way to practice for the safety drills. it looks like it's going to come out that one or two students wounded, hopefully. the suspect committed suicide. and maybe no other students or teachers injured. so the drills, craig -- the practice and the training and

also the police response of, you know, active killer, as we call it now in the police service -- active killers. you go to the killer, and you confront the killer and engage the killer. and likely we may find the deputy sheriff, school resource officer, went toward the killer, engaged him and the killer committed suicide. he had a direct engagement or he heard footsteps and knew he was coming. so the police probably interacted there, some proximity. >> you know, we heard from the sheriff a few moments ago that right now they are combing through those classrooms, slowly and methodically, clearing that school. so they can reunite those students with their parents in colorado. in terms of where we are versus where we were some 10, 15 years ago, james, what lessons have we learned, specific lessons have we learned from the shootings at columbine, from the shooting at

aurora, as well? >>el with, we learned a specific lesson at columbine, a major shift in the police service. and, of course, in education. because what we did, we spichd fr switched from the old hostage barricade situation and you wait for the tactel california unit at columbine to realize you can't wait because these active killers are in there for the purpose of killing everybody. they don't want to play into cuba, they don't want money, they don't want their family released from prison. what they want is to kill everybody and commit suicide. that was a major paradigm shift. and all of us in law enforcement went through different training. and especially on the back of first responding patrol officers and school resource officers to go right in, like they did at newtown. they went right in, and that's what you've got to do. so we have seen a shift. in this case, the drill of this student, to lock the doors,

barricade, do what you can, get out if you can, fight if you must. it looks like it's probably paid off. because we're not hearing any reports of lots and lots of victims. so the school drills, the police drills, the awareness, the intelligence. but sadly, we've got another -- maybe student, bent on revenge, it sounds like, to a teacher and ready to commit suicide. so we have suicide as a light motif that goes through so many of these things. revenge and revenge and sometimes mental illness. >> here's the thing, james. we're going to get back to the mental illness component in a moment. we are covering this particular shooting for a variety of reasons, obviously. the proximity of the shooting to other shootingses in the colorado area. but also -- also the fact that here we are, you know, just a day away from that somber anniversary. newtown, connecticut, 26 people. 20 children, 6 adults shot and killed in newtown a year ago. tomorrow. and james cavanaugh, i don't

think a lot of folks watching or listening perhaps understand how unfortunately commonplace shootings in high schools, in america have become. >> right, exactly. i mean, they happen every day, really. inside, outside schools, in school yards. a lot of it is related to activity in the neighborhood. sometimes it's criminal activity that involves students. police are always going to schools. craig, you remember when we were kids, there wasn't a police uniformed policeman in every school. we didn't have police in the schools. but now, most every school has a uniformed officer. and there's got to be some kind of perimeter protection. and you look at the size at arapaho high school here, it's a huge facility with 2,000 students. so it's a security challenge in itself, because it's so big and populated. but things have changed. we've changed in america to do better. i think today probably the drills, the practice, the changes in strategy have helped.

they have helped today. >> and we are right now looking at precisely what the sheriff indicated was going to be happening here. you just saw a few moments ago in the frame before this video, you saw some armed officers on top of a roof. it appeared as if they were going to be climbing down that roof again, methodically, slowly. very carefully going through this entire high school. this is a large high school. some 2,000 students going through that high school to make sure that the gunman is -- or was the only gunman and to also make sure they've got all of the students out of that classroom. again, 12:30 local time, shortly after 12:30, a lone gunman. we don't know his age. according to the sheriff, a male student -- not a male student, necessarily. yes, a male student. entered the west side of the school. was looking for a specific teacher by name.

we're also told a student has been shot, in serious condition. we're told the student who was shot was shot when he confronted the male student who had a gun. that student, 15, 16 years old. taken to a nearby hospital. at last check, again, in serious condition. this was, again, the last day of regular classes before exams next week. and then the christmas holidays. according to the sheriff, the gunman died of a self-inflicted wound. kusa, our affiliate in the area, talked to the arapaho county sheriff just a short time ago, as well. let's take a listen to that. >> this afternoon at 12:33 p.m., a lone gunman who was a student of arapaho high school, entered the west side of the school, was looking for a specific teacher by name. when that teacher heard that the student was looking for him and was armed, he immediately exited the school, which was absolutely

the appropriate measure. a student in the immediate area of the gunman was shot, and that student was transported from the school in serious condition. we have a second student we now believe has a gunshot wound, but probably minor in nature. so we've had two students that have been transported from the school, as a result of this activity. >> again, one student in serious condition. one student who it sounds as if, according to the sheriff there, the other student appears to be in okay condition. congresswoman loretta sanchez of california joins me live now. and congresswoman, we should note for our viewers watching and listening, we originally booked you to talk about the budget fiasco down in washington, d.c. but we are instead going to talk about images that, again, unfortunately have become far too common in the united states

of america. and also, as we have been noting, in this tech part of colorado, as well. but here we are, congresswoman, tomorrow the one-year anniversary of the shooting in newtown, connecticut. what say you to folks who say that the congress of this country has done little to nothing legislatively to prevent another mass shooting? >> well, i believe that they were just counting up all the la laws that passed this past year, and state legislatures with respect to guns and gun control, and 75% of the agencies were pro gun or actually trying to work through the laws that we have. so i think that sort of gives you an indication of what we see around the country. of course, we tried in the congress about a year ago, after

sandy hook, to try to even just enforce and put more moneys and more meat behind some of the laws we had with respect to i.d.ing people and registering guns. >> and what happened? >> and that was brought by somebody, a very conservative democrat out of west virginia, someone who understands gun culture. senator manchin. and they couldn't get the votes in the senate and if they couldn't in the senate, certainly would not pass in the house. so clearly the congress is not structured today, as it stands, to go after some of these gun issues. >> and you know, there's a new nbc news "wall street journal" poll just out. and we asked folks about, you know, stricter gun control laws. and we sort of -- we asked them to talk about gun culture in this country in the wake of

sandy hook. and surprisingly or perhaps unsurprisingly, folks in this country, many, at least -- the folks we polled, their attitudes had shifted considerably in 365 days. is there, do you think, congresswoman, is there a political appetite to do anything different on guns? and, again, i think we should probably note here that we don't know a great deal about this shooter or what was on his mind. >> right. and each one of these situations tends to be just a little bit different. we do know that mental health is an issue. and many of us have been working on that. a colleague of mine, one of the kennedys, no longer in the congress, patrick, he got mental health parity. if you look at the aca law, it's got mental health as one of the ten essential. so we understand that there is a lot of mental health that is not being applied right now.

so that's one of the issues. some have said that the games that our kids are playing are desensitizing these young people to what it is to shoot and hurt somebody like that. and there's probably a case for that. it's also true, i think, that there are -- there are two americas. there is one that's grown up with the gun culture. i happen to have many family members who have been in the military. my husband was 23 years in the military. i have a son who is in the u.s. army now. very -- we're very comfortable, if you will, with guns. >> sure. >> but it is true that those guns are put away, they're locked up. the ammunition is not with them. we have eliminated almost anything we would need other than to go hunting, for example. and so there's just two cultures. there's one who is used to it, and then there are -- many of our city folks, and i grew up in a city, who are not used to that. or who see this as something being used by gangs or being used by drug cartels.

and so there's not a meeting of the minds right now, really, in our nation with respect to what to do with guns. >> but that's an explanation. and that's typically the explanation that's offered after every one of these. after every school shooting that we cover. that's one of the -- one of the most common explanations, not to discount that explanation at all. but i would ask you, you know, and maybe there isn't one. but what can we do collectively? >> well -- >> go ahead. >> we certainly can do things. 18 years ago, when i first ran for congress, i ran against a very pro gun congress incumbent, congress member. and, you know, a latina, a democrat, a woman from california. should not be able to run on gun control against somebody like that. but the number one issue i brought up is i went door to door was to talk to people about the automatic weapons that were

on our streets killing our young people. and even our -- nra members agreed that, you know, this had to stop. and so really, when i look at how i won that, it was because i actually attacked that issue. i actually talked about that issue. i also -- i talked to people about what we had to do together in order to do that. unfortunately, as you know, we don't have a weapons ban that was eliminated, went out of -- we didn't reauthorize it. and as i said, we couldn't even get better background checks up just a year ago. that doesn't mean we're not going to try again. i think after we see this, you know, there might be an appetite for people to bring it up. but i don't believe the votes are in the congress. >> congresswoman sanchez, thank you. >> thank you. >> that sobering assessment. again, we continue to follow the breaking news here. we can tell you at this point that the gunman is dead. he was a student at arapaho high

school, shortly after 12:30, walked inside the west side of that high school, he was looking for a teacher, called out that teacher's name. the teacher managed to get away. two students were shot. one of those students, we're told, was shot when he tried to confront the shooter. that student is in serious condition. and we can also tell you that the other student who was shot is said to be in okay condition and, again, of course, all of this happening, 20 minutes from the aurora movie theater and also that school shooting in littletown back in 1991, as well. and, of course, tomorrow the anniversary of sandy hook. we'll continue to follow this breaking news right after this. stay with us. >> it ought to be a shock to all of us as a nation and as a

people -- it ought to obsess us. it ought to lead to some sort of transformation.

first we were just sitting there in class, having a discussion. i can't remember about what. and then we heard gunshots, one, two, three. and everyone just looked at each other, and we kind of knew that it was real. i don't know. the lights went off. before i knew it, we were all scrambling to the back of the classroom. we got there really quickly. we all got there -- i think within five or ten seconds. there were more gunshots happening. then they stopped. and i heard a woman screaming. and then i heard a man screaming. he went that way, he went that way. and then a lot of commotion. as well as a lot of silence in our classroom. everyone was so scared.

every girl in the classroom was crying. i was just freaking out. i don't know. >> that is sound from a witness from a student at arapahoe high school in littleton, colorado, where a student injured two students before taking his own life. we'll continue to follow developments and bring them to you, as well as, of course, tomorrow will mark the one-year anniversary of the mass shooting at sandy hook elementary school and caps a year-long debate about gun control and the balance of constitutional protections versus public safety in the united states. to discuss this, i want to bring in representative rosa de lora, a democrat from connecticut and also with us democratic pollster margie o'mara. let me start with you. this is a difficult weekend for your state and i'm sure you personally know one of the -- you know one of the teachers who lost their life that day, lived in your district, we talked about that before. here we are reporting on another shooting in a state that has dealt with a lot of gun violence

in schools. your thoughts today. >> first of all, my thoughts and my prayers are with the students and those who are injured, and including the -- the gunman and their families. and our prayers are with them. you listen to that young man about youngsters crying and people scared. and freaking out. and you have to say to yourself, when does this end? when do we get serious in the united states about gun violence, and what is happening. and it is the anniversary of newtown. it is always so difficult. it was a slaughter of the innocence. and the loss of six dedicated educators and one in particular, vicki soto, who stood in front of the gunman and protected her children and saved their lives. and it's a year later. and nothing. nothing has happened. that focuses our attention and how we get control in some way

of this issue. in addition, the tragedy is that since newtown, there have been 29,000 people who have lost their lives to gun violence. that really is staggering. and we are unable to do anything here in the congress that would help to mitigate against this kind of effort. and we -- their legislation that lost in the senate, and thank god, the president and vice president committed $100 million just this week to mental health services. it's not one answer. it is, yes, about background checks and the -- in my view, just saying no to the high-capacity magazines and no to assault weapons. but let's balance these efforts with the kinds of mental health

services in our schools, instead of armed personnel, which can bring some sanity and some assistance and some counseling to both youngsters and their families and to the school personnel. >> and congresswoman, looking at the perspective from your state of connecticut at this anniversary, as we look, of course, on the screen of images of this shooting in colorado, what do you think, though, about the idea that there have been some progress on issues you were just discussing at the state level and your state level reforms? what do you think of that in contrast to what you were just mentioning, which was a congress that can't even hold a lot of votes on this issue, let alone actually get to enacting laws? >> well, you know, i am so proud of the state of connecticut, and we -- you know, have some of the toughest gun laws now at the moment, and are investing in mental health services. colorado did the same, and yet look what happened to three of their legislators who were

recalled because they had the courage to stand up and say we need to do something here. but if the states have to be the leader, then so be it. that has been often the case in this nation. but we have to do something nationally. we abdicate our responsibility, our moral responsibility, to the people that we serve. and to their families. look, we can never do anything to heal the hole in the heart of those families that lost those babies last year. but they certainly need to know that we are there for them to help to try to make a difference to stop this senseless and reckless gun violence in the united states. >> and margie, as we look again at images of students, of children fleeing the school, fleeing a shooter, as we think about the anniversary and we balance different ideas about what to do, privacy -- requests for privacy and peace from many

family members, and victims' families. but also a lot of discussion from some victim family members about the need for state and federal action. testifying before congress. this week we've heard from some of those here on this program. walk us through where public opinion on this issue. because at times, it seems more nuanced than a one-note answer from washington. >> absolutely. very frequently, people want to look at what's called the three-way or three-pronged question. should gun laws be stronger, weaker or kept the same. and the problem with that question -- it's not that it doesn't have its uses. is that we don't know what people are thinking of when they're thinking stronger gun laws, weaker gun laws, we're not sure what the respondents are thinking. when we ask about specific proposals, like universal background checks, like ban on assault rifles, like making it harder for people to get

concealed weapon licenses in a state they don't live in, for example. there's overwhelming -- those are overwhelmingly popular. people see that we can balance the rights of individual law-abiding gun owners with keeping guns out of dangerous hands. and what is definitely true, in that three-way, the percent that say we should have weaker gun laws is incredibly small. less than 10%, 7, 8% say we should have weaker gun laws, less strict gun laws. that's exactly what is happening. in the year since newtown, twice as many laws passed in the state have been weaker than stronger. it's the complete opposite of where public opinion is. >> that goes to two points as we think our way through this. number one is, there is a bit of a myth out there that we don't respond to these tragedies with policy. that somehow we should keep the status quo. whether or not that is a good idea, it is not what gun advocates in the nra are doing. to your point and to the "new york times" reporting this week

that we have touched on, far more laws in the past year basic tree trying to loosen access to guns. so no standstill out there. there is a pitch debate in the states. second, i want to go to something you have written about, margie. which is you have argued that there is a lot of polling that basically debunks the idea that the gun advocates have more passion on this issue. explain that to us. >> well, it's something that maybe -- maybe the coverage reflects this, some passion, difference in passion. that's not where voters are. if you look at the 90% of americans who support universal background checks, 90%, you have clear majorities, three-fourths, two-thirds, depending on the poll, say they strongly support universal background checks. it doesn't matter what the intensity is in the 10%, because you're going to have two-thirds or three fourths of those of americans say i strongly support universal background checks. there have been other polls that say would you support someone,

would you change your vote for a candidate. whether or not they support universe jam background checks. and in those polls, majority say yes, that would make a difference for me. and so i think for some reason there's this sense out there that people want to write the story that support for gun laws is evaporating. it's never -- it has never been very strong or you have a lot of democrats who are worried they may lose support. and that's just not true from the polling. it's not true if you're looking at targeted suburban women. >> let me jump in there, though. because congresswoman, we hear the other side of that, as well, though, to push back a little bit. we hear a lot of members of congress talk about the fear that they'll be voted out of this on this issue. and that is a part of democracy. that's part of the full hollistic understanding of this anniversary, people care a great deal about. is that your experience, that there is fear holding people back on the hill? and also tell us, if you can, with the anniversary coming up, has this been with a budget and everything else going on, has

this been something you and your colleagues have been talking about this past week, or not as much? >> what we have been talking about this past week with regard to newtown and just this afternoon, several of us were over at martha's table to try to do some acts of volunteering or kindness, because newtown families have said they -- they want to maintain their privacy this weekend. they are still in great pain. but have asked all of us if we would do some act of kindness and volunteer in some way. and several members -- myself, as i said, at martha's table. there is -- margie has been so accurate in saying that overwhelming, the people of this nation want to see action to prevent these kinds of efforts from happening. and it is clear that, as i said earlier, the congress has abdicated its responsibility.

i think that for the most part, people do want to see movement. and is to try to do something. are there some who are frightened of doing that because of an electoral reprisal? yes. but i think overwhelming, members -- we got to close in the senate. you've got to take into consideration the overwhelming and substantial pressure from lobbying groups who maintain this fear, in my estimation, and keep people in fear so that they will say that they need to be protected by guns. and that has to do with their own self-interest, and rather than the interests of the public. that's something that we have to try to break down. there is a fear of reprisal. but i think if enough people are manifesting that view locally with their members of congress, and are demanding a change, you would see change. >> well, and congresswoman, it's

well-put and important to think about today. you're really speaking about two levels of fear. the personal safety fears that people have, as well as the political fears that their leaders have. and one of the big points that you hear over and over again is there is room for self defense. there is room for hunting. there is rom for the constitutional rights to bear arms while also regulating the access point, the screenings we do, and weapons that seem more designed for military or offensive actions. that's, i think, hopefully the more textured and intelligent part of the discussion that the country continues to need to have. and on this day, we appreciate your time, margie o'mara, and representative rosie delauro, thank you. >> thank you. we continue to monitor breaking use out of colorado, a student injuring two peers before turning the gun on himself today. another shooting inside an american school. please stay with us. [ female announcer ] from your first breath,

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we have been following breaking news out of colorado, where police say a student opened fire, injuring at least two peers before taking his own life. this is unfolding at arapahoe high school in centennial, colorado, just south of denver, and ten miles east of columbine high school. we will continue to monitor this story as it develops this afternoon. now we want to look at another important story. when you look back on the year 2013, there was a huge story for politics and human rights that actually took a big step backwards in year. on june 25th, the confident block on the supreme court took aim at one of the most sack row sank in civil rights law, the voting rights act of 1965. in contrast to so many political issues, the voting rights act was actually a point of consensus in modern american life. a republican president and a large bipartisan majority in congress renewed the law seven years earlier. but this year, chief justice

john roberts, discarded that consensus by striking down a key part of the voting rights act. >> what the court did today is stab the voting rights act of 1965 in its very heart. >> flash forward to this week and we know a series of states have begun restricting voting rights act. mississippi, texas, north carolina, under part of the law ruled unconstitutional, have passed strict forms of voter i.d. and this week, one of the most pivotal states in presidential politics entered the fray. this is a local story with a huge national implication. and here to tackle it, we have kathleen clyde from ohio, professor from the university baltimore school of law, and author, and here with me in studio, zachary roth from msnbc, covering this story in ohio and republicans' attempt to make it easier to purge the voting roles.

welcome to all of you. zack, let's start with you. what is ohio doing this week? >> well, ohio lawmakers just passed a law, heavy republican support that would really do two things that voting rights advocates tell me they're concerned about. one, it would reduce the minimum number of voting machines that counties are required to have on hand. so there's obviously potential there for much longer lines at the polls. which is a problem ohio has had in the past. the second thing it would do, which you alluded to, make it easier for the secretary of state, and this is jon husted, a republican and no friend of voting rights, make it easier for husted to remove voters from rolls if they're registered in more than one state. but other states where this is happening, the process is with errors. >> representative clyde, when you look at this and think about how often the entire country looks to ohio, presidential contests turn on ohio and people have a lot of concerns about the equities, the fairness, racial

issues here. what can you tell us about what's happening and the legislative process as of today? >> well, the bill you just heard about is a huge concern. and, you know, ohio already is a leader. we're number one in the country for the number of voters that are purged from the rules in ohio. so this bill also does what zack said. it will reduce the minimum number of voting machines in each county. so we could go back to the 2004 nightmare that we had in ohio with long lines and chaos and confusion at the polls. >> yeah, i remember that. i was in columbus at the time. professor, put this in the larger civil rights context. john roberts, the chief justice of the supreme court, basically said this year, we don't need the voting rights act anymore. not so much that it's bad, per se. but that it is unnecessary. and yet as we just discussed in

several states in the south and now ohio, it seems that maybe federal supervision being removed is leaving some incitement or encouragement for these kind of crackdowns. >> well, i think, ari, you're absolutely right, that the examples that are going on in ohio and north carolina and in texas and in a number of other states justify the voting rights act being in existence. and so the shell bee county case is particularly problematic, because it took away the federal supervision. and i think these developments show, it's really necessary that we do have a voting rights act, and i think that congress needs to update the formula so that it becomes more effective. >> and what you mean when you say formula? something that could be modernized so it would apply even outside of the former confederate states? >> absolutely. i think, you know, what's going on in ohio, which is not covered under the formula, demonstrates that we need a 50-state updated

formula. because there are things going on in many states outside of the confederacy that justify voter protection by the federal government. >> and representative clyde, i want to be clear and drive right at that. there are times where these voting issues have to do with whether or not the polls are going to be accurate or you're purging the polls or getting people out of the lines. and there are times north carolina and texas being examples where if you listen to the department of justice and their data, they say there are racially discriminatory practices going on. which way do you look at it, based on what we know so far, it being early, in these rules in ohio? >> well, we've had 15 voter suppression bills introduced by the republicans in ohio. and they are trying to attack the right to vote in all different ways. cut down on the early voting opportunities. increase the likelihood that a voter would get purged. increase the number of reasons

that a ballot could get thrown out. an absentee ballot or provisional ballot. so we've had more than a bill a month introduced to try to get at the right to vote, one way or another. and it's a huge concern here in the buckeye state. >> let me go to zack quickly. people watching this, they know ohio is important oh. and this sounds bad because of what it would do which is make it harder to vote, which isn't really a partisan view, something we try to think of as good in america. you could wonder, why isn't this actually getting more attention right now? >> well, that's what we're trying to do here. i mean, one of the issues is that some of these kind of state-level laws often fly under the radar for quite a while, until they go into effect and you begin to see what the impact they have on people is. in ohio, one of the issues is, it's going to be the combined effect of a lot of these different bills that the representative was just talking about, where you have some bills cutting early voting. >> yep. >> you have end of same-day registration. so all of that combined. >> yeah. and sometimes if it gets

complicated, north carolina has actually been seen as so severe and the sort of organizing around it so positive that i think it was clear as a storyline that what we have seen in ohio, which so far i think is going below the radar, that may be good for some of the republican sponsors of these bills right now. this has been a busy news day, so i thank you all for sticking with us. kathleen clyde, m. michael higginbotham, and we will be back with an update on the school shooting in colorado. stay with us. [ female announcer ] arms were made for hugging. hands for holding. feet, kicking. better things than the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. if you're trying to manage your ra, now may be the time to ask about xeljanz. xeljanz (tofacitinib) is a small pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis.

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a quick update out of arapahoe high school and centennial, colorado. a student opened fire, injuring two peers before taking his own life. the sheriff has stated the gunman was looking to confront a specific teacher, and we are told the white house has now been briefed on the incident. all this, of course, unfolding ahead of tomorrow's one-year anniversary in newtown.

please stay with msnbc for continuing updates. and coming up right now, "the ed show," with ed schultz. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show," live from new york. let's get to work. >> under what circumstances will accept an extension of benefits that run out at the end of the month? >> republicans have their sights set now on ending long-term unemployment benefits. >> we didn't see that as particularly very serious. >> dude, seriously. >> they've got a new big three they want to attack in the holiday season. >> food stamps. >> minimum wage. >> federal unemployment benefits. >> they got exactly what they want to win the next election. >> republican budget represents our ultimate goal and our ultimate vision. >> they can go back to object oh instructing obama. >> i support unemployment