it's a great way to stay on top of your credit, and make sure things look the way they should. awesomesauce! huh! my twin sister always says that. wait...lisa? julie?! you sound really different on the phone. do i sound pleasant? for once in your life you sound very pleasant. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. free fico® credit score. get the it card at discover.com. hello, disrupters. i'm karen finney and it's been quite a week. we have more on the war on christmas and fear of a black santa and what we need to be doing to keep our kids and communities safe from gun violence. >> what began as a battle between mainstream republicans and the tea party types escalated into all-out war. >> all of a sudden we're in bizarre-o washington. >> i came here to cut the size of government. that's what this bill does. >> it's not anything i can support. >> it's worse than the status quo. >> surely you can't be serious. >> are you kidding me?

>> i would prefer to keep the conversations within the family. >> freedom works are denouncing the deal. >> you know, they pushled us into the fight to defund obama care and shutdown the government. >> i can't vote for a bill i disagr disagree. >> one of the people, one of these groups stood up and said, well, we never really thought it would work. >> i think john got the irish up. >> are you kidding me? >> are you [ bleep ] kidding me? >> are you kidding me? >> i'm serious. don't call me shirley. >> with all of that, let me say to all of you, have a merry christmas. as santa makes the list and checks it twice, john boehner is trying to play nice. this week, boehner embraced the hall say spirit and attempted a compromise on a budget bill but all he got for the efforts were lumps of coal as outside

conservative groups like heritage action and the gop tea partiers launched a full scale rebellion. leaving boehner to once again rely on nancy pelosi to get the job done. next week, the upper chamber will take up the budget, a handful of key gop senators are anxiously facing tea party primary challengers, though. so as you might expect, the rumors of a filibuster are already swirling. we can only hope that senator patty murray can work her magic and use the skills she picked up as a schoolteacher to corral the kids back to the table to good behavior. as for co-author paul ryan his newfound balanced approach could be a signal he's gearing up for 2016. >> with the budget i passed in march, that's what i really want. balance the budget, pay off the debt, don't raises taxes. but i know in this divided government i can't get that budget. she can't get the budget she passed. she can't get into law. we know that. we could keep doing that and

shutdowns or look for common ground and get something done and keep things moving. >> as for speaker boehner, well, he's finally figured out what the rest of us have known all along. the source of strength for the cuckoo caucus tea party is not popularity in the polls or establishment and don't care that a majority of america disagrees with me. joining me now, democratic congressman from maryland, elijah cummings. thank you for being with me. >> good to be with you, karen. >> i want to start with speaker boehner good to see him pushing back and sort of felt like where has he been the last months over the summer in particular when i think you could have predicted that, you know, the childish behavior was going to bring us to this kind of point? >> he could have predicted it and should have predicted it. karen, sad part is so much damage has been done. he comes out yesterday and basically and says, look, ted

cruz, your way doesn't work. we can't be shutting down the government. he says to the pea party, your way doesn't work and now i think it's an opportunity for the president to work his magic. and the president has a duty. i look back at the speech that he just made with regard to inequality in our nation. it's a brilliant speech, karen. but now we have to act on it. a lot of people are running around celebrating what we were able to accomplish in this compromise. but let me say this, karen. you got -- we got to keep in mind that the rich are getting richer, the middle class is disappearing. >> right. >> the poor are getting poorer and it's so sad and so we have got to -- i'm hoping that the president will join in with the pope and other people who are of like mind and i think -- karen, i think he has a campaign like he campaigned to become president of the united states. people said he would never be able to do it before he did it back in 2008. >> right. >> that's the kind of campaign to have. he has to use the very things he

talked about in the speech the other day, about educating our children. >> right. >> making sure that our seniors are okay. jobs, all of those things are so very, very important. >> you know, congressman, i guess i also feel like a lot of this is put on democrats and the president. and obviously, you know, there's responsibility there. but i've been surprised that the gop is not taking more of a hit for the fact that, you know, we couldn't get the unemployment insurance piece done. >> yes. >> as you said, their focus is protecting the top 1% instead of investing in the economy and investing in job creation. we had some decent economic news this week. why not do some investment? >> yeah. the economy is limping along in spite of the republicans. >> right. >> and the rich. i wish they would stay home and let us do what we have to do and get this economy in shape. >> exactly. >> but, karen, there's something happening here. i mean, i see my constituents, i

listen to them. this divide cannot go on. if we want to keep our government stable -- >> right. >> -- you can't have a situation where people are feeling that their children will not do just as good or better than they've done. and that's the feeling that people are getting. i just listened to your clip with ryan, congressman ryan, and he said we have to move to common ground. he's absolutely wrong about that. we have got to move to higher ground. our society is better than this. better than what we're doing. >> you're so right, congressman. we need to be talking about the issues more, as moral issues rather than political issues. >> that's right. >> i want to switch gears because, obviously, today marks a very sad day in our nation in terms of one year since the newtown tragedy and yet -- and also, a day after a tragedy in colorado. >> yes. >> when are we going do get the republicans on board with getting real comprehensive gun safety measures done? >> they have got to be able to say no to the leadership of the

nra. and that's the problem, karen. >> yeah. >> you know, but you know what? there's some people that have said, they're going to give up on gun safety. i'm not giving up. i have to keep in mind that the brady bill was signed 12 years after ronald reagan was shot. >> right. >> and so he ends coming out endorsing it. 12 yores. >> yeah. >> that's a long time but i think what we're seeing is a society that's buying more guns. i mean, buying more guns than they have ever bought before but i think we have to keep the drum beat going on and i think the passion of those people who have suffered losses and parents who see their children in jeopardy, i think we're on the right track to get something done. the question is, how soon will we get it done? we cannot give up. it's too important. >> thank you for your time and thank you for your passion. >> thank you. let's bring our political panel, professor at lehigh

professor, james patterson and jackie kucinich at "the washington post." thank you both for joining me. >> thank you. >> thanks, karen. >> that was a very impassioned elijah cummings. i do love that. i want to look ahead to the senate, jackie and i'll start with you because we were maybe going to have votes over the weekend. now that's not happening but already you're hearing from the republicans who are facing tea party primary challengers all kinds of, you know, i can't support this deal and maybe they're going to try to filibuster the deal. are we looking at more chaos ahead? >> you know, i think that democrats are going to be able to get enough votes to break the filibuster. looked like last count within a vote or two of being able to even overcome if someone does try to filibuster. and once they get past that hurdle, that's supposed to happen on tuesday. this bill should go through in congress and may leave on a high note. >> okay. that's very optimistic. i think we would love that, james. but i think the reality is that

the tea party. right? here you have -- i have some sound i want to play for you from mark levin and paul ryan. the tea party is saying that john boehner declared -- speaker boehner declared war. let's take a listen. >> this agreement prevents a government shutdown in january and in october. >> you're all worked up about that. lots of us don't really care about that. >> don't care about it? i mean, you know, look. i think we can agree -- >> how callous is that? >> exactly. there's things we would have liked to see in the final deal but getting something done is certainly worthwhile. >> it is. and again, i'm no cheerleader for this particular agreement but i think we should all cheer the idea that we can move forward at least in the short term without lurching between crises. the idea we govern by crises is not cost effective and people claiming to be the people to shrink government and being more

responsible when it comes to fiscal issues, it doesn't make sense at all that you don't care about a government shutdown. a government shutdown is very costly. >> right. >> in terms of jobs and straight direct hit to the economic growth. and so, the logic of this is always been insane. it's a compelling sign that speaker boehner because he's got to look forward to immigration reform and other things he's got to try to get done over the course of the next couple of years using the government shutdown and the bad politics the now make good on what he needs to do in terms of handling the tea party caucus within the house of representatives. >> you know, jackie, it was interesting in week with two schools of thought, right? one says that democrats did a good job protecting medicare, medicaid, social security, we didn't get -- they didn't get unemployment insurance. but then on the republican side, you know, you had paul ryan saying we got a deal. compromise. he got his talking points out. he gets attacked immediately. who actually is the winner coming out of this politically?

>> i think john boehner really won coming out of this politically because he stood up to the groups making his life hard and he zpt have really the power to do so until after the government shutdown happened so now looking forward, doesn't mean anything gets done next year. i can't say that but it does give him momentum in the next part of this congress. >> james, it was nice to see speaker boehner kind of get the irish up but i have to tell you for sometime we have felt like, you know, this is like hurting children and i feel like what boehner should have realized sometime ago, i don't have kids but i've worked with kids and i have to tell you you don't reward bad behavior. we checked out "parenting" magazine and thought we'd give john boehner some tips. over the summer he was rewarding that bad behavior so i don't understand why he is surprised, great to see him, you know, get whipped up but he seemed

genuinely they didn't go lock step with him. >> he was surprised because i think in john boehner's world and speaker boehner's world he felt as if the tea party group and heritage action that fund them and club to growth is read the polling after the shutdown and thought he gained this leverage and in fact he thought would get the leverage going into it. they don't see the same thing and thinking rationally doesn't work. some of the constituents and members of the tea party and elected officials are not about thinking rationally. what they're about is ideology and that trumps rational thought for them for us to try to figure out what they do and why they respond to the things they respond to. >> it will be interesting a week to see what happens in the senate and january. thanks to james and jackie. >> thank you. >> thank you, karen. >> you can see the entire interview with congressman paul

ryan and senator patty murray on "meet the press" this sunday. when we come back, it is time for action on gun safety measures and later, santa claus is coming to town but the color of his skin, that's up for debate. stay with us. turn to roc® retinol correxion®. one week, fine lines appear to fade. one month, deep wrinkles look smoother. after one year, skin looks ageless. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. take skincare to the next level with new roc® multi correxion® 5 in 1, proven to hydrate dryness, illuminate dullness, lift sagging, diminish the look of dark spots, and smooth the appearance of wrinkles. high performance skincare™ only from roc®. and smooth the appearance of wrinkles. if hey breathing's hard.me, know the feeling? copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis.

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president, first lady this morning led the notion in a moment of silence lighting 26 candles for the victims of newtown, connecticut, one year ago today. we knew the headlines marking this day would bring back the shock and the sadness this our nation felt on that day but it was the front page and the

headline of the "denver post" that really says it all. again. again a student opens fire on their school campus and again students are forced to flee their own school and again we're reminded that our kids know the drill. sort to speak. from colull bin to aurora, colorado did not need reminders of senseless gun violence which is why it only made sense that real gun safety measures were finally signed into law by the state's governor earlier this year. but then came the disgusting backlash and the national rifle association pouring $362,000 into a recall campaign ousting two lawmakers who supported those gun measures. a third lawmaker decided to resign rather than deal with the attacks. we'll deal what the newtown families and so many others have been trying to do across the country and others say it's bad for ratings but we have to have the conversation. we're going to have the conversation and make people

uncomfortable because we have got to get gun safety laws passed and protect our kids and communities everywhere. i'm honored to have colin godard who survived the gun shootings and james salt, executive director of catholics you nilted joining me right now. thank you so much, gentlemen. >> thanks, karen. >> good to be with you. >> colin, i want to start with you because i remember when this first happened and sort of when these incidents happened and far too many of them, there's an attack that somehow we're politicizing the issue but it strikes me that we need to be politicizing this issue because we're not getting movement and it is not that it's a left-right issue, this is an issue that affects everybody. >> right. i mean, if -- you're right. if we paused for a moment of silence after every moment of gun silence, we would be in a perpetual state of silence. 33 people are killed in this country every single day.

that's a virginia tech, more than a newtown every single day. >> yeah. >> and when people realize that we need to understand that this is something that happens to us no matter where we go or study or work. and that there are solutions, literally on people's desks that helps keep dangerous people from having guns and getting people involved in the issue and fundamental civic engagement is the missing piece that we haven't had and now we have seen emerge again in 2013. that will take us to the place where we get serious about keeping guns away from the wrong people. >> you know, james, that's a really important point that collin's making in terms of level of engagement even though not as much action at the federal level. it does feel like there's -- i know you have done quite a few events with colin to try to build the momentum at the ground level, if you will, given we're

not getting congress to make a move. >> that's right. you have to ask the question, why is it that a piece of legislation that has 90% of the support of the american people and can't make it through congress? gun manufacturers and private equity firms like service private capital management make on scene profits off the sale of military style handguns and guns and then funnel the profits into disinformation campaigns by the nra. it is a vicious cycle. the gun manufacturers are getting more wealthy and more people are dying and saying enough is enough. >> colin, i have the tell you looking at the images yesterday of the kids walking out of school, it was really chilling to me and as i said in my intro, i mean, they knew the drill. right? great on the one hand but there was something about the image that i found just, you know, not just because we were seeing it again but because it seems like it's become such a part of american life that now kids have to know how to deal with gun

violence or when a shooting might come into their schools. >> well, we need to understand that we're the only country in the modern world that deals with this in this way. that has these instances over and over again. we have other countries with high rates of gun ownership and nearly nothing close to the number of gun deaths and injuries every year. what is it about this? i think part of that answer is the easy accessibility that we allow in this country for people that should not have firearms, felons, domestic abusers, given easy pass to get them. we have parent that is leave them accessible to children. you know? the responsible gun ownership and responsible policies is what's going to take us out of this mess and take us to a place where we can have gun owners existing with legal guns and far fewer deaths, responsible gun ownership is what we need in this country. >> james, so here's what strikes me. as you pointed out, 90% of

americans agree with this. you know, there was a lot of momentum and yet the media narrative seems to be that president obama and democrats failed where as i think there's not enough in this -- i do make this a political issue on this point, on the other side, for those that could be a part of the solution, the -- you know, more of the conservatives, they're not seeming to get as much pressure of why aren't you supporting the measure? eric bowler wrote about the press conference this week that i want to read to you. he said in the end the background check failure was portrayed as a process story and a process story that featured obama as the big loser and otherwise 9 out of 10 republican senators refused to support a gun bill that 9 out of 10 americans supported but it was obama who got targeted with the failure. how much, james, do you think is trying to change the narrative in terms of and the way this issue is actually covered we're talking about solutions? i mean, you just had colin talking about concrete ideas, things this need to be happening

and my goodness, the background check bill was the minimum of the minimum, and yet, we're focused on who's winning and who's losing rather than is this good policy and how do we get it done? >> i give the president credit for bringing this issue to the national debate during the state of the union last january. and he's not responsible. in fact, he's done everything he can, i believe, in this administration to move sensible regulations forward. you know, but frankly, it is the confluence of money and politics driving this debate. these companies are literally profiting off the death of children. and we are saying enough is enough. until we take the money out of politics and the sale and distribution of firearms that the cycle of violence won't end. >> i want to play for you something that the daughter of the principal that was killed said and struck me. >> you know, i would see things on the news or, you know, hear

about it on the radio and, yeah, you know, that was sad but it was so easy to just go back to my life and now this is my life. and i will dedicate the rest of my life to doing everything within my power to make sure that no one has to feel this way. >> you know, colin, you obviously turned what happened into a call to action and activism yourself. but i feel like i don't want people to have to have gone through such a tragedy to be activa activated. >> right. no. erica is absolutely on point and we're good friends. you know, the survivor's mission is to do something so that other people don't experience what you have experienced. right? and it's phenomenal how many other people who have experienced the horrible incidents started to speak up and very important constituent

and what's remarkable for me is the people that haven't had the experience and realize as long as we sell guns without background checks, that could be them and don't want it the happen to their family or children and calling members of congress, writing letters. we have seen a remarkable increase in the number of grass roots and how much engagement on a local level on this issue. this is the missing piece for so long. >> yeah. >> it's what's going to carry us over the finish line eventually. >> thank you for what you're doing. so important. i'm so glad to have you getting people activated. >> thanks, karen. >> good to be with you. coming up, after protecting social security, medicare and medicaid in the budget deal, how can democrats get the gop to stop the class warfare waged on hard working americans? that is next. you start at point "a."

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we would like to take a moment to note that today the african national congress offered the final farewell to nelson mandela. after the service, mandela's body was flown to his childhood province where thousands gathered to honor the man as president obama said now belongs to the ages. a funeral service and burial are scheduled for tomorrow. and still ahead on this show, the fine print in the gop's budget bargain. later, santa claus is coming to town but what's he really look like? >> by the way, for all of you kids watching, santa just is white but this person is just arguing that maybe we should also have a black santa but, you know, santa is what he is and we're just debating this because someone wrote about it, kids. [ male announcer ] the new new york is open.

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yeah, we're unhappy about it but not enough to say therefore we're going to make matters worse by not having an agreement. while i don't like this bill, i think as i said much more could have done to invest and create jobs but it is an okay thing to vote for. >> oh, a ringing endorsement of the budget from house minority leader nancy pelosi. it may be the first budget that we have had in five years but that does not mean that everyone is particularly excited about it. so what has lawmakers on both sides of the aisle embracing the suck as pelosi put this week? democrats may be happy to protect social security, medicare and medicaid and rolls back some of the senseless cuts of the sequester but they're rightfully pushing back on the cuckoo caucus efforts to protect the wealthiest 1% instead of job creation and republicans are also wishing a merry christmas

to over 1 million americans by taking away their unemployment insurance. don't forget. the funding for that program comes out of our paychecks. it is actually our money. joining me now, jared bernstein and josh barrow. thanks to you both. >> thank you. >> jared, i want to start with you because obviously this deal was, you know, finally calibrated to, you know, it was sort of not too much, not too little and as much as both sides are sort of unhappy, it does strike me that there is some credit to be given to the democrats for pretty immediately taking the entitlement programs off the table and president obama at one point had said he would support it or he would be open to the idea of it being on the table. >> actually, there wouldn't have been even this small deal at all if those kinds of larger issues hadn't left the room. down here in washington, there's

a lot of talk about a grand bargain for years. the idea that democrats would give on entitlements and republicans give on tax revenues and it never happened because both camps were solidly against it. and so, only when they dispelled the notion of doing anything grand could they find any common ground at all and there's a tiny little patch of common ground that they found and it involves shaving $65 billion off of the sequester cuts. >> right. >> that's helped for 20, 14 and 15 and helpful from my perspective meaning less fiscal drag in those years and then takes away with the other hand with the ui benefits to expire. >> josh, you know, the argument we hear from republicans about unemployment insurance is that, you know, well, we don't want to foster these lazy behaviors of people who, you know, they should be out looking for a job and i have to tell you, if you

have been on unemployment insurance or your family has, you're not really sitting around, you know, doing your nails, you're trying to find a job and doesn't that do a disservice to what the underlying sort of economic policy issues are to unemployment insurance? >> i think it does in this economy and there's an effect paying people not to work at the margin you get people not working and people are in different circumstances and may have two earners household and one says i will ride this out for 26 weeks and go get work in a good economy but that applies when the labor market is tight and people don't look for jobs that's fewer people working and now you have nearly three job seekers for every job economy and then you had a figure higher than five so it didn't really matter if you had a few people deciding to wait before looking for work. you had plenty of other people lined up for the jobs and you have that now so this is really the wrong time to roll back extended unemployment benefits. we'll get to a place of full

employment and don't want to have one and a half years of unemployment benefits. not today. >> let's push back on an idea. there's an assumption being made that people are sort of riding it out 26 weeks and sometimes what's happening is that person's going to do child care because they say, we can't afford child care right now so i'll do the child care getting unemployment insurance and also be looking for a job at the same time. i think there's assumptions made about the behavior that is people are engaging in. >> well, i guillmean, it's a qun of priorities. the idea is support for people that can't find work and essential in a time like right now and unemployment rates are so high and looking at previous recessions when we cut back on extended unemployment benefits we had much less long term unemployment than right now and a reason we don't have the benefit program all of the time. it's a program that you have in times like today of extended economic distress. >> jared, i want to -- i'll get you to refact a second but i

want to add a question. we have seen some little bits of positive economic news. the latest being a surprised increase in holiday spending. again, we have talked about the fact that, you know, the economy, it's kind of trudging along. could be doing much more and you would think that in terms of the patch of compromise that you talked about investing in job creation seems just like a very rational, noncontroversial idea. >> well, in a way. but there's a kind of a force that pushes the other way. remember, down here you have a lot of policymakers who simply don't want to and haven't for a long time wanted to do anything helpful for the job market so if they can point to a couple of indicators and say things are improving, now we really kind of have a rational for not doing anything to help. they're going to do so. i think it's very important to distinguish between an economy improving and an economy that's really better.

>> right. >> we have an economy that's improving. perhaps it's even improving a tick or two faster than it was. we won't know. there's head fakes in this recovery. >> yeah. >> but as josh said, if you look at the share of workers who are long term unemployed, been unemployed for at least half a year, it's twice, it's twice the share that it's tape cli been when congress has extended unemployment insurance benefits in the past. >> right. >> so imply based on a simple metric, we should do so. secondly, i agree with josh on that point and one point that josh went by that's very interesting that i don't quite see the same way and that's this. josh said, look, eventually we'll get back to full employment. i'm not so sure. both myself and a number of other economists have been worrying lately about a level of structural stagnation in the economy that we may -- not necessarily extend unemployment benefits but may need more

worker supports, more job creation supports in the medium term than we think. >> josh, i'll let you have the final word here on that but part of the reality that we're not really talking about is that the nature of our economy and structure of the economy and work in general is really changing and seems to feel like it's a piece of what jared was talking and going through an looks very different on the other side. >> that is a big piece of it. we have long-term challenges developed over four decades with incomes rising faster at the on the than the middle and drivers and not public policy and not clear what the government can do about a lot of short-term problems that remain to be fixed, lack of sufficient demand not supporting job growth and those problems can be fixed and that's what i actually -- why i feel fairly good about the budget agreement. the best thing is it is an agreement. >> what's that? >> takes us out nearly two years and don't have to fear of

another government shutdown and a fair amount of economic policy and paired with janet yellin at the fed and continuity of monetary policy and that's actually good for investment and i don't know creation and hopefully next time we have to come back to strike another one of these deals in two years it is a somewhat better economy and more money to move around. >> okay. we'll leave it there because it sounds kind of positive and like hope is on the way. thank you, jared and josh. all right. stay with us. we have much more including our week he debunking of the rhetoric and conspiracy theories. ♪ [ male announcer ] if we could see energy... what would we see? ♪ the billions of gallons of fuel that get us to work. ♪ we'd see all the electricity flowing through the devices

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it's not the "juggle a bunch of rotating categories" card. it's not the "sign up for rewards each quarter" card. it's the no-games, no-messing-'round, no-earning-limit-having, do-i-look-like-i'm-joking, turbo-boosting, heavyweight-champion- of-the-world cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere, every single day. now tell me, what's in your wallet? in slate they have a piece, santa claus should not be a white man anymore. i kind of laughed and said this is so ridiculous. yet another person claiming it's racist to have a white santa. you know? and by the way, for all of you

kids watching at home, santa just is white and this person is arguing that maybe we should also have a black santa. but, you know, santa is what he is and we are debating this because someone wrote about it, kids. >> okay. it is time for it's a fact and debunk the right wing talking points and conspiracy theories. it's a fact that in just ten days santa will chris cross the globe in record speed and it's a fact that he'll climb down chimneys and make the way into homes to deliver gifts and eating cookies and feeding carrots to the reindeer all the way. but what is not a fact is that santa can only be white. like the falling snow here in new york. as fox news megyn kelly claimed. within hours the network up in arms found itself under a holiday attack prompting kelly to defend herself against what she called race baiting. >> we continually see st. nick

as a white man in modern-day america. should that change? well, that debate got lost because so many couldn't get past the pact that i acknowledged as harris did that the most commonly depicted image of santa does, in fact, have white skin. by the way, i also did say jesus was white as i've learned in the past two days that is far from settled. for me, the fact that an offhand jest i made in a segment about whether santa should be replaced bay penguin has now become a national firestorm says two things. race is still an incredibly volatile issue in this country and fox news and yours truly are big targets for many people. >> okay. i agree that it's a fact that the color of jesus' skin is far from settled and also a fact that race is a volatile issue. and it's a fact that it's also an issue that we need to keep talking about as a country rather than dismissing the idea that it's just -- the subject is

race baiting. as my colleague melissa harris perry noted this morning in her letter to santa. >> if we can't imagine santa across the racial divide, no wonder we have a hard time crossing that racial divide. santa, maybe lead for imagination and tolerance in the christmas stockings. maybe you can give us a little bit more sense of satire, help us to be a little slower to judge and give us the tools to have more empathy for one another. >> so i love that so much that i asked melissa to join me because i could think of no one better to talk to about this with. thank you for coming back. >> absolutely, sure. >> taking megyn out of it for a second, the symbols are very powerful. you talked about this as an interracial child. my mom's white. my dad's black. i don't know what i thought santa looked like when i was a little kid but the idea he can

only be one thing or another, that just doesn't seem like the america that we live in. i guess that's what i took issue with. why take that issue on when it's not your experience? >> it's interesting because you know, obviously, this puts us -- what megyn kelly was right about is we were talking about santa as a penguin and somehow creating a firestorm. >> right. >> and yet, i mean, this is the whole point both of the initial piece and when's happened afterward, we actually do have a lot of feelings, maybe all the feelings about christmas, santa, about what these things represent and this time of year it isn't just the debate about the religious aspects of the holiday. >> right. >> but it is about the commercial images and what they say about who we are as a country. >> right. but, you know, what i found frustrating in the response is every single time we get to the precipice of having this conversation it is shut down as race baiting, you are race baiting rather than have the conversation. but let's do in it a respectful

way so we're not dismissing. there's something on the table. have that conversation. >> yeah. race conversation and race baiting are two very different things. right? race baiting is when i'm literally just trying to drag into some bad thing happening opposed to in the case of harris saying here's my experience as a young person at this time of year and responding to it. i thought the biggest santa problem is for children coming from households relatively poor because for them if the story is if you're nice you get gifts and if you're naughty you don't then does that mean i'm naughty if i don't get a gift? what does it mean to be of a non christmas celebrating household in a country where christmas becomes definitive of this time of year? like i think there's a lot of interesting santa conversations to be had. >> yeah. you know, the other thing that i have taken issue with with our friends at that other network is the idea of a war on christ mass and strikes me that the war on

christmas is not about happy holidays, merry christmas, the color santa and jesus is but what is going on in america with children that literally are being kicked off head start, they're hungry because of cuts in s.n.a.p. programs. 1.3 million -- you know the numbers. that is the war on christmas that we should be talking about because that feels like a true sort of contradiction of what the american values are supposed to be, right? >> right. this new budget deal, three days after christmas, 1.3 million people lose unemployment benefits and people making their choices about christmas shopping. >> right. >> right? knowing that the benefits are going away a few days later. i agree with you that the beauty of what christmas can do regardless of your religious affiliation and race is it can be -- i mean, it's -- i'm a christmas nerd. >> which is fine! that's great! >> it can be a moment to reflect and ask ourselves what about peace on earth and goodwill towards all humans?

honestly, my main feeling toward kelly is empathy. we know what it is like to be women in the public sphere saying something on television and then the attacks are not substantive, very personal. >> right. >> i kept feeling like she was talking to kids at home. i'm just trying to be clear, there's a santa. all right? and then it turned into this weird stuff. but if we could just refocus on the substantive conversation you just asked which to have peace and goodwill, with e need good policy that represents that goodwill towards one another. the government policy is how we demonstrate our goodwill. >> who cares what color santa? right? as long as he shows up. >> but santa likes nat king cole. >> you said parker is waiting up. >> maybe -- >> full report. melissa, thank you for disrupting today. >> of course. yep. >> be sure to watch melissa's show tomorrow and every weekend

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if you happen to be in the northeast today, it might be a good time to break out the hot chocolate and the blankets because guess what. it's snowing. nbc meteorologist dylan drier joins me now. what is going on out there? >> it is snowing and i couldn't agree more with the hot chocolate and everything else on a weekend day. we are seeing heavier snow working into pennsylvania. been light most of the day in new york city and that was expected and not getting all that heavy until about 7:00 or so. between 5:00 and 7:00 starting to ramp up. you can see where we do have some of the heavier snow north

of pittsburgh. blues end katding the heavier bands of snowfall and in and around new jersey, it is pretty light and starting to get heavier and that's what we're going to notice over the course of the next couple of hours. now, in boston, lighter snow over the area and starting to accumulate on the grassy surfaces and seeing mainly snow and eventually going to change over to rain going into tonight. after a period of icing possible from parts of west virginia up into pennsylvania, northern new jersey and even in new york city, as well. after we get a couple of inches. maybe up to about three to six inches in new york before that changeover. it is really interior parts of new england and the interior northeast where we'll see some of the highest snowfall totals and mostly because we're not going to see much of a changeover. get the shovels out and get used to shoveling in southern new jersey. let it wash away in the rain. karen? >> all right. dylan, thank you. i am going to put on the snow boots right now. >> me, too. >> all right. that does it for me. thank you so much for joining

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