one delivers the holidays like the u.s. postal service. priority mail flat rate is more reliable than ever. and with improved tracking up to 11 scans you can even watch us get it there. and look for our limited edition holiday stamps. good afternoon, disrupters. i'm karen finney. a punt on unemployment insurance. later, we'll take a look at a wacky tea party challenge group for 2014. >> only in washington can an agreement be so divisive. >> i group up in a bar. you have to be able to read every character that comes in the place. >> always whining about what power he doesn't have. >> i prefer to keep these c conversations within our family. >> grownups in the republican party have basically prevailed. >> the mavericks, tea partiers,

are just too dangerous. >> there's no extension for unemployment benefits in this deal whatsoever. >> our focus is on job creation. not a 13th extension of an emergency benefit started in 2008. >> which is bad? when you allow people to go on unemployment insurance for 99 weeks you're causing them to become part of this perpetual unemployed group in this country. >> it's heartless. >> we have a lot of things that will prolong unemployment. >> it's heartless. thanks for joining us. we start today with our political forecast. a look at what we can expect in politics in the week ahead. the senate will likely vote on the budget bill on tuesday and a slew of 2014 republican primary challengers will impact just how many votes will be cast in favor. the outlook for passage is bright at this point. just this morning arizona senator john mccain confirmed that he will support the

legislation. >> i hope it'll pass the senate. i'll do anything -- not anything. but we must not shut down the government again. we can't do that to the people of this country in my state. >> while the bipartisan agreement could help avoid another government shutdown, it does nothing for the roughly 1.3 million americans whose unemployment insurance is set to expire in 13 days. congressman paul ryan, one of the co-authors of the bill explained today why emergency benefits were left out. >> when they at the 11th hour asked for this unemployment extension, they offered nothing to pay for it. which would have blown a hole in our deficit. our focus is getting people back to work, chris. we want jobs. and we want pro growth policies that help create jobs so we don't have people going on unemployment in the first place. >> 11th hour? are you kidding me? house and senate democrats have been pushing for this legislation since last month. and they've been talking about the need to extend these bene t benefits for much longer. of course, the ultimate goal is to create jobs.

guess what, mr. ryan? cutting more than a million people off from what is for some their only source of income just three days after christmas, that does nothing toward the goal. mr. ryan says, quote, we don't want people going on unemployment in the first place. well, duh. but what about the people who are already there? his logic for helping the unemployed is to tell them not to become unemployed. not very helpful. even though the budget is likely to pass the senate, here's the other thing. the possibility of a shutdown is not really off the table. earlier today congressman paul ryan made it clear during his appearance on "fox news sunday" that his party is going to require ransom for an increase in the debt limit which they are, again, prepared to hold hostage. >> we the caucus, along with our senate counterparts, are going to meet and discuss what we want to get out of the debt limit. we don't want nothing out of this debt limit. we're going to decide what it is we can accomplish out of this debt limit fight. >> just when you thought the good congressman was turning over a new leaf for

bipartisanship. joining me now to discuss what we can expect in the weeks ahead, kate nasara, congressional reporter for buzz feed. john nichols, washington correspondent for "the nation." thanks to you both for joining me. >> thank you. >> good to be here. >> kate, i want to start with you. one of the things that's interesting about how this vote is going to go down in the senate is when you look at the gop senators who are facing primaries in 2014, particularly the tea party challengers, they seem to be not in favor. they made a point of coming out early and often to express their displeasure. >> right. exactly. and so what these tea party challengers are doing are pushing these senators who might otherwise agree for a bipartisan compromise to the right. i still think it will pass. i actually even think some of the senators might vote for -- a simple majority could get the budget passed. >> you know, john, what this bodes in terms of the future is

we will likely see a lot of this while these guys are in this primary situation where they might normally have either voted for something or been willing to make a deal on something, they'll instead sort of be naysayers, if you will. >> sure. this is -- this is really a throwaway vote in many senses. i'll tell you why. this deal is going to pass. it looks like they've got enough republicans to get cloture. once they're there. they might get to 60 votes. it's possible. wherever they get, this will pass. everybody will go home for christmas. hopefully they won't enjoy it too much. because they've left a lot of people in a lurch there. but the important thing to understand is so much is going to happen between now and the time that those primaries come that even some people who vote for this thing will have a lot of history between now and then. >> mm-hmm. >> in particular, i think that ryan summed it up.

we have a very real chance of a debt ceiling fight that will bring us close to or even, you know, into some sort of shutdown situation. so the notion that this has settled a lot is sort of a wonderful nonsense of the holiday season. >> absolutely. to that point, kate, one of the things i thought was interesting this morning was the sound we just played of congressman paul ryan making it clear. i mean, there's been so much about how this means there's not going to be a government shutdown. that's why we're doing this. but guess what? he made it very clear this morning that, hey, we are still going to hold ransom. we still got a hostage that we can use. i mean, we could be finding ourselves as early as february, could be a little bit later, maybe march or so, or even a little later than that, that we are right back where we were before fighting over the debt limit. >> i mean, the whole point of the budget was to make room to fight over other things. >> of course. >> they didn't want to have a

shutdown. you know, saying we can keep the government hopopen, we can keepe government funded, republicans want to talk about the affordable care act. democrats want to be able to fight over immigration reform. and you can't do that when all you're doing is fighting over these very short-term funding measures. the debt limit will be really interesting to see where republicans actually want to take that and how far they want to take that and how much they think they can extract. >> you know, john, the other piece in this that we've been talking a lot on this network. i've been talking a lot about is unemployment insurance. and the issue of leaving town, essentially, with 1.3 million people who will lose their unemployment insurance just three days after christmas. "a," that's bad for the economy. that means that's money that's not going into the economy. "b," just from a moral standpoint, particularly in what is supposed to be the season of peace and goodwill, that to me is the real war on christmas.

>> well, i have to tell you that i suspect there are some members of congress who may be visited by three ghosts around christmas eve. because if you go back and read your dickens, it's pretty blunt on caring for the poor at this time of year. frankly, people who are long-term unemployed, they're in an interesting situation. they are not necessarily the poorest of the poor. they are people who are still struggling to keep above that line. to try and make it back. but they live in parts of this country where job growth has at times been very, very slow, even anemic. so giving these long-term unemployment benefits to these folks, it doesn't keep them from looking for a job. >> of course. >> that's a silly concept. what it does is it allows 1.3 million people and their families to stay in the game. and i find this a really deeply troubling part of the whole deal. in addition to the fact that

this deal also asks for more money from government workers and from military personnel for their benefits, that's taking even more money off main street. >> i completely -- >> i don't see this as any kind of stimulative process. >> i agree with that. kate, i suspect that there will be more of a backlash, i think, on this issue about pensions. but certainly i want to stay on unemployment insurance for just a moment because what strikes me is that the language that is being used is similar to the language when we hear them talking about programs like medicare and medicaid and this idea of makers and takers. you know, who's deserving and who's not deserving. it's really becoming a class warfare when they're just really ignoring the reality of why we have long-term unemployment in this country and what we need to be doing about it. >> i mean, it sets things up for the democrats, actually, in a way to be able to fight this battle. you know, they can go back to the arguments over medicare and medicaid. and they can say, look now.

look at what is happening with unemployment insurance. i mean, this is actually a very good argument for democrats to be making at the end of this month. >> you know, john, to your point about pensions, it's really disgusting, i think, and i completely agree with you, to ask federal workers to have to put more in. particularly military personnel. i was actually hoping they would at least do some kind of a carve out for people who are serving in combat, for heaven's sakes. can you imagine if you are serving in the armed forces and you're being told, guess what? you're going to have to put more into your pension. i feel like they're paying already. >> this is an austerity budget deal. that's important to understand. there are no changes in policy for the wealthy. they didn't close any loopholes. they didn't ask wealthy folks or multinational corporations to do anything more. but they said to the people who deliver our services at home and protect us overseas, you have to

cover the budget gap. you have to take care of it. that's a lousy calculus. and we should all -- you know, people can be happy or sad about, you know, at least a little bit of negotiation and agreement in congress. but nobody should be happy that this is the calculus we're beginning to work on. because it's saying that those who work hard have to pay more. those who enjoy, you know, dividends, you know, get an easy break. >> right. you know, kate, final point to you. it strikes me that that really is the frame looking ahead to 2014 in terms of when we talk about immigration reform. i suspect we will hear about tax reform again. although as john just pointed out, i don't think anything substantial is going to happen on that. we're going to be fighting all over again about the semantics ofbe heading towards the mid-terms. in january there's a lot on the plate. and heading toward the state of the union. it's going to be a busy month. the frame is sort of this makers

and takers and who's deserving language. >> what i think is going to happen, what i think the budget actually does is it sets up for people to make their arguments. you know, there's not a lot in it that you can actually frame what you would like to see done and see get done. you're going to see both sides really dig in in the coming months. >> all right. it will be fun to watch, maybe not. but we shall see. kate nacera and john nichols, thanks so much. next, we're going to meet the men challenging a slew of republican senators. could there be a witch -- oops, i meant a warlock among them. that's coming up. ♪ e. with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and cost estimates, so we can make better health decisions. that's health in numbers.

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from what i understand from doctors, that's really where if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. >> you know, this -- if this congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those second amendment remedies. >> even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that god intended to happen. >> i'm not a witch. i'm nothing you've heard. i'm you. >> oh, who could forget todd aiken, sharon angle, richard murdoch and christine o'donnell. just a few of our favorite tea party candidates who made things tough for the gop but made the election season so much more entertaining for the rest of us. here's the good news. we have got a group of wacky wing nuts in 2014. they may not only help keep things interesting, but they may help democrats keep control of the senate. here's the deal. the gop needs to pick up six

seats to gain control of the senate. most believe it's in their favor. democrats hold 21 of the 35 seats up for grabs. the gop holds only 14. but a slew of republican incumbents now face primary challenges from tea party candidates. no doubt emboldened by their growing power in washington. who will force them into primary battles, essentially, over who is the most conservative. that's going to divert the gop's time and money away from defeating democrats. even mitch mcconnell is facing a challenge. if you're wondering why, the senate majority leader -- minority leader, sorry, opposes the budget deal, look no further than good old matt beavan. the tea party affiliated businessman who's challenging him in the kentucky primary. all just another sign of the growing war with the the grand ole party. today we thought we'd introduce you to a few of our favorites we'll be watching as we head into 2014. let's meet the challengers.

here to help us do it republican strategist susan del percio. and manu roger. i have to say, this is susan's inaugural appearance on "disrupt." i know she's so excited that i asked her to come talk about the crazies. i'm sorry. but they're too much fun. i want to start, manu, with liz cheney. what's interesting in this race, obviously a lot of conversation about why would she be challenging incumbent mike enzi? just this last week her sister, mary, was speaking at a fundraiser in indiana that was -- she was arguing in favor of same-sex marriage which seems to suggest that that spat between the two of them is not going away and may, indeed, stay fairly public. >> that's right. this has been sort of a distraction for her. at least in the national media.

i think that she has calculated that even if this happens, the national media is focused. wyoming and wyoming primary voters may not be as focused on this. a lot of wyoming republican primary voters oppose gay marriage. maybe she's on the right side of the issue among that electorate. the bigger problem for her is going to be the fact she's lived in -- most of her life in virginia. she recently relocated out of wyoming. and mike enzi is seen as a guy that's generally likable, both among the republican establishment and among wyoming republican voters. she really has to make a compelling case of why mike enzi does not deserve another term. it could be a high hurdle given that it's a very small electorate. it's a very -- mike enzi spent a lot of times over the years shaking those hands. she'll have to prove her credibility on the ground to those voters. >> susan, to that point -- two things on her that strikes me.

number one, talking about marriage equality given that that issue is -- definitely there's a split within republican party. watching the split within this family not helpful to the broader issue of trying to build bridges to the lgbt community, i would assume. secondly, there's got to be just bad feelings. i mean, as manu was saying, people feel like enzi's done a good job. there's not really a reason to challenge him. i no i know she likes to cast herself as part of a new generation. that doesn't seem like an argument. >> even though she's running to the right of him she's really not one of these tea party challengers you talked about in your -- mentioned in your introduction. >> we had to throw her in there. >> you threw her in there. i understand for what reasons. yes, she was able to make news. get into the cable news circuit. when it comes to her particular challenge, i think she just said, enough. i don't want to wait any longer. that's a big difference between some of these others like when we talk about congressman

stockholm going against senator kaurin, frankly loony tune. absolutely received no support when he announced. >> we'll get to him. i want to talk about mississippi. there's a very interesting race there. chris mcdaniel, who is challenging cochran. there was actually already a minor controversy. mother jones rortsed he addressed a neoconfederate conference and costume ball sponsored by a group called sons of confederate veterans. it turns out he wasn't at the event but has attended previous ones. this is how one member described the group. they try to connect us with the clan. scv, we are simply a heritage defense organization. we defend what our people did back in the 1860s and tell the truth, tell things you never learned in school, not in the school books. manu, that is not the -- i'm pretty sure there's nothing like that in the autopsy from the rnc about how to build bridges. i mean, that's not going to be

helpful. >> probably not. i mean, i think it'll be interesting to see how a young new candidate deals with a controversy like this. the issue there, though, no matter who wins this primary, the republicans are probably going to keep this seat. this is all about the republican primary base. i think what, karen, looks interesting about this race is now there are about eight republican senators who are facing these tea party primary challengers. cochran is probably the one guy who has not spent a lot of time preparing for the possibility of a primary. he just announced he was running just about a week and a half ago. and he really hasn't spent a lot of time fundraising. if there's one sleeper race or one possible upset, it could be in mississippi. i think the rest of the guys are really preparing. they probably will fend off and maybe survive barely, maybe win handedly. thad cochran, it will be interesting to see how

aggressive he goes after chris mcdaniel. >> susan, i know a part of your theory on this is, i agree with you, as manu was saying, a lot of these seats are going to stay red. right? it's just a matter of the primary which is going to provide a lot of fun -- sorry -- for those of us in cable television. but it also, as we were talking about, i mean, the broader point here is it distracts from talking about obamacare which i know is something republicans want to be talking about. or frankly other things that they want to be talking about in erm thes of a positive agenda instead on defense. >> right. i think you're going to see more of a split between some of these conservative groups and the business community like we did in the alabama 1st special election last month where business got behind a candidate who was responsible, who believed in responsible leader leadership. you're going to see a much bigger shift. i think that's why frankly speaker boehner was able to s k speak this the past few days

with a little more conviction knowing he had that backing behind him. >> number three, milton wolf. he's challenging pat roberts. what's interesting about mr. wolf here is he is actually a discountry cousin of president obama's. to me, at least, pat roberts is pretty conservative. i'm not sure kansas has had a lot of very conservative policy. i'm not sure how you outconservative a guy who's pretty conservative in a state that's already very conservative, manu. >> that's right. the thing that roberts is really getting hit on is that he supported kathleen sebelius, hhs secretary. remember, she's, of course, a former kansas governor. he spoke highly of her when she was nominated. as soon as there was word of a primary challenger he really started to go after her. he opposes her. he calls on her to resign. that's part of the thing milton wolf is really seizing upon. saying this is an incumbent who has backed a lot of republican

light policy. it'll be interesting to see how roberts can deal with that. it's a very, very conservative electorate in kansas. this will be -- could be a challenge for him. >> susan, i have a little sound, of course, i just want to play for you. just so we can get a flavor of who this guy is. >> a lot of people watching are going to say, wait a minute. second cousin once removed from president obama. and you're in the tea party? >> you know, they say you cannot choose your own family. but you can choose to rise up and stop your family from destroying america. that's what i intend to do. >> so, susan, yeah. wow. because of his relationship to president obama, he is going to get attention. >> absolutely. and it's the attention that you really don't want to see. when we want to be known as a party of being responsible. you talked about how the senator is known as being a conservative. how much more conservative can you possibly get? i think we're going to see it

start changing in words. whether it's responsibility, accountability. people want to see government working and functioning. >> i hope so. >> that's what people are going to really start to, i think, clamber for. >> last but not least, someone i know is very concerned about making sure that government is functioning. that is none other than steve stockman, who's challenging john cornyn in texas. i had to save the best for last. he is my favorite member of the cuckoo caucus. you know, he helped bring us the shutdown. the benghazi witch hunt. brought ted nugent to the state of the union. the obama rodeo clown. manu, he is -- he's already got some really fun hits out there for us. >> that's right. and a lot of the conservative groups are worried about backing him. it was interesting because when he announced last week he was going to run, it was a surprise. it sort of came out of nowhere. this is a state, texas, a very expensive state to run in. he doesn't have a lot of money.

he doesn't have much time for the march primary. it sort of seemed like he got in at the last moment. for cornyn who's been preparing for a primary for months and months and months and building up a war chest, it'll be tough for him. the biggest problem is for the republicans on this issue is that cornyn is a big fundraiser for the national republican senator yal committee. national republican's effort to take back the senate. he's going to be distracted dealing with this primary over the next several months here. >> it will be fun to watch. we will -- you know, cuckoo caucus guys, i hope more of you come. because i hope we can have susan and manu back to talk about more candidates. because it's going to be just too much fun. thank you to susan del percio and manu raju. coming up, paul ryan said it. republicans need to win elections. guess what? they are using every trick they can think of to do just that. the latest in the efforts to limit your access to the poems. plus, the pope fires back at his critics. that's ahead. [ woman ] too weak.

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he may have gotten his name from a gentle saint associationed with animals and nature. he's no shrinking violet. he's firing back at conservative critics like our friend rush limbaugh who called the pope a marxist for speaking out against unfettered capitalism. pope francis told an italian newspaper he's not a markist. what he said was all according to the social doctrine of the church. lest anyone question who's the bigger man, let's be clear, we're talking about morals here. we're not talking about anything else. the pope also added, in my life i've known many marxists who are good people. so i don't feel offended. so, rush, how does it feel? you just got disrupted by the pope. coming up, the ever expanding war on women. our disrupter of the week. stay with us. stick with innovation.

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we contacted the counter. we're going to have the same hours in which poles are open in early voting. and we're going to have more poems available. so we're actually -- it's going to be almost identical. it's just the schedule has changed. >> what? that was north carolina governor telling our own chuck todd his new voting law doesn't shorten early voting. oh, no. it compacts it. no. he's the poster child for why 2013 has really been a terrible year for voters. he's one of eight governors who signed into law a slew of new restrictive votes laws, putting them oen the books just this year. in north carolina new restrictions on things like early voting, same day voting, voter id requirements, among many others could mean that up to 3 million north carolinians could be out of luck when they try to vote in the next election.

now, that number 3 million becomes even more important when you consider that in 2012, mitt romney won the state by less than 100,000 votes. and north carolina is a key prize in presidential elections with 15 electoral college votes. governor mccrory also won by just over 500,000 votes. if you are governor mccrory, these laws are common sense because most voters negatively impacted by the law, they weren't going to vote for him anyway. like african-american voters who overwhelmingly voted against mccrory in 2012. yes, race is a factor. as we saw on "the daily show requesshow" back in october. >> the bottom line is the law is not racist. >> of course the law is not racist. and you are not racist. >> well, i've been called a bigot before. let me tell you something. you don't look like me. i think i've treated you the same as i would anybody else. matter of fact, one of my best

friends is black. >> okay. yeah. earlier this week, a judge in north carolina decided to postpone challenges to the law until after next year's mid-term elections. which is also after most of the law goes into effect. the case could have far reaching consequences impacting challenges filed in a number of states across the country as part of an effort to protect voting rights. joining me now, penda hair with the advancement project and one of the lawyers -- and spencer overton, professor at george washington university law school. thanks to you both for joining me. penda, i want to start with you and talk about what's happening in north carolina. it really has been in some ways sort of the ground zero of the worst of the worst in terms of voting restrictions. >> yes, karen, you are absolutely right. this has been called the monster voter suppression bill. it makes it more difficult for voters to vote and have their

vote counted in a number of different ways. including, as you noted, taking away a full week of early voting and one sunday of early voting, a time when african-american churches have what they call souls to the poles. they will only have one sunday to do that under this law. we went to court this past week on behalf of the north carolina naacp to argue that this case should be decided before the 2014 election. so that voters will not be harmed by actually having this law go into effect. and what the judge did is she -- the magistrate judge gave us a preliminary injunction hearing next summer in july. so we will be able to present voter testimony and expert testimony. and try to convince the court to issue a preliminary injunction so that these -- the law would not go into effect until after a full trial, which will be held in july of 2015. >> you know, spencer, reading

more and more about this law, preparing for this, i thought who does this guy think he's fooling? it's so obvious what the intention is here. even this law restricts things like pre -- early registration for 16 and 17-year-olds. that should be part of our civic duty. we should want young people to consider voting as an important thing to do. >> that's absolutely right. you know, they got rid of that election official that you mentioned. but this has got to be about more than just messaging. you know, republicans in north carolina and other places need to follow the colorado republican clerks who worked with democrats to actually modernize elections and expand voting in colorado. so, you know, we certainly have a war on voting in many states around the country. and we've got to call it out. but in those places where republicans are actually working with democrats to expand access to the ballots, we've got to celebrate that and encourage that. >> i want to show something. representative mickey michaux.

i want you to understand what this bill means to people. we have fought for, died for and struggled for our right to vote. you can take these 57 pages of abomination and confine them to the streets of hell for all eternity. penda, obviously this is going to be quite a battle here in terms of pushing back on each of these provisions in this law. >> absolutely. and we've challenged this law under the voting rights act of 1965. and also under the constitution. and our claim is that the law is based on a discriminatory intent to discriminate against african-americans. and next summer when we go to our preliminary injunction hearing, it's the 50th anniversary of freedom summer in 1964. so that history is very important. the voting rights act was passed in 1965 because as mr. michaux said, the people had to struggle

and die to get the right to vote. and now states like north carolina are trying to make it harder for people to vote. when, in fact, it should be easier and more convenient. absolutely. >> you know, spencer, we've talked about this before. you and i have talked about this before. we're not just talking about north carolina. to some degree i feel like north carolina is a test case of a lot of different things. just this week, look at ohio. right? there's a lot that'll be heading to governor kasich's desk. vote purges. this is ohio where we know there have been problems. >> that's right. and so, you know, these purges have excluded a number of legitimate voters. that's one big problem. also in ohio, there are issues where they're trying to eliminate the number of voting machines in ohio in terms of the new law.

and we know about the long lines in ohio. in 2004, some voters waited for up to ten hours in line. a lot of people didn't vote in ohio as a result of long lines. we really do have reason to be concerned. >> you know, penda, last question to you. it feels like when you look at what's going on across the country, i mean, again, 2013 was a really tough year for voting rights, it feels like conservatives who are backing these laws are essentially getting started early, quite frankly, when they look to 2014 and 2016 in terms of trying to get these laws in place and disenfranchise voters. >> yes. this is a pattern that really started after the 2008 presidential election. and every cycle we -- it's getting worse. fortunately, the courts have -- have caught on to this. they have been pretty active in striking down these laws. and the advancement project has two cases pending now, in pennsylvania and wisconsin. other states that have tried to make it harder to vote.

and we are really calling on the federal courts to step up and look at these for what they are. which is politicians really manipulating the rules this in order to keep voters from voting and make it harder to vote. >> we are going to keep an eye on all of that here at "disrupt." i'm sure we'll talk about this again. penda hair and spencer overton, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. when we come back, our disrupter of the week. the former boxer who knows how to win.

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before the senate leaves for the christmas holiday, they could actually slow things down or even stop the confirmations. but senator reid called their bluff and kept the senate in session for a full 48 hours. now there's a lot left to do before the senate leaves town this week. both on the nominee front and the big budget vote on tuesday. but for standing up to republicans who'd rather play politics than do their jobs, majority leader harry reid is our disrupter of the week. next, tis the season for rape insurance? the latest in the ever expanding war on women when we come back. not anymore. what? my silverware isn't good enough for you? have -- have you seen it? yes, i have seen it, and it looks -- you gotta look better. ladies, breathe. cascade kitchen counselor here. it's not your silverware. it's likely your detergent. see, over time, cascade platinum's triple cleaning formula delivers brilliant shine finish gel can't beat. it even helps keep your dishwasher sparkling. find something, mother? no. [ counselor ] cascade platinum is cascade's best.

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you may not realize it, but america is bogged down in several wars right now. in addition to the war in afghanistan, there's a war on christmas and a very real war on women. the latest front in the war on women opened up this week when michigan state legislature passed a measure which essentially requires women to purchase rape insurance. yes, you heard me correctly.

but the war is actually being waged on multiple fronts. social, medical and economic. from our access to basic health care services, our ability to earn the same as men, to policies restricting medical leave, ladies, we are under siege. joining me to discuss those latest battles, jody jacobson, editor in chief of rh reality check. erin carmon from msnbc. erin, i want to start with you talking about michigan and rape insurance? i'm speechless, obviously. just even at the idea. talk to us a it willlittle bit what this means. >> michigan is following eight other states that have passed various restrictions that are very comprehensive of all the private insurance plans sold in the state. saying if you want to use your insurance to cover abortion, you have to somehow know in advance you're going to have an abortion, have to purchase a special rider. that includes rape and incest,

obviously. even in people who do not have rape or incest leading up to their abortion, don't necessarily plan for their abortion. >> also we've got sound from a state senator i want to play. as she pointed out, you also have to plan in advance for being raped. for being assaulted. that's where your thinking has to be. >> also, a small percentage of people who do, in fact, use insurance to cover their abortions, it tends to be later procedures that involve serious medical conditions that tend to be very expensive. they involve hospital stays. so, again, lots of people for reasons of stigma don't use their insurance to cover abortion. they don't know you can. they're afraid of someone finding out. the ones who do it tends to be thousands of dollars in expenses. >> i'm going to play this sound. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i'm about to tell you something that i've not shared with many people in my life. but over 20 years ago, i was a victim of rape. and, thank god, it didn't result in a pregnancy.

because i can't imagine going through what i went through and then having to consider what to do about an unwanted pregnancy from an attacker. if this were law then, and i had become pregnant, i would not be able to have coverage. because of this. how extreme, how extreme does this measure need to be? >> jody, it really struck me what an impassioned conversation to try to have with your colleagues. and then essentially get blown off and it passes anyway. it was pretty shocking to me that that personal story didn't have more of an impact on people. one of the things that's been interesting, you've seen more women legislators across the country in some of these crazy, crazy pieces of legislation that are coming out, trying to use their personal experiences to kind of shed some light on why these things are so ridiculous. >> absolutely, karen.

it's really tragic. i mean, what this shows you is how deeply misogynistic these policies really are. even when women speak to their actual experiences, whether it be rape or needing abortion for other reasons, all of which are legitimate, they are -- they are ignored. we've seen women who've gone before legislatures talking about having, you know, horrible outcomes and having to have an abortion and being completely ignored. >> also, as you wrote about this week, it's not just abortion. we know -- or access to abortion care. we know we're taurking about contraception. we're talking about -- when we talk about women's health care and access to services and even just being -- you know, being trusted to know what medicines i want to take. >> exactly. because abortion is a part of health care. birth control is a part of health care. they're all essential aspects of a broader set of reproductive health care.

what women's ability to control their fertility is also essential to their economic and social participation. >> right. >> you know, all of those things are taken in a package with these laws. >> erin, you know, to that point, for women, this really is economic. i mean, it is -- you know, i view it as on some level, it's do you trust me to make decisions, you know, to be an equal human being and all of those things. but at the same time for women this really does play into an economic reality. i mean, birth control, when you're paying for it, you know how much is coming out of your pocket. just the idea of being a woman, being a pre-existing condition and having to pay more, but also as we talk about things like equal pay for equal work and we talk about paid leave and all of these other things, i mean, i do think that women view a lot of these issues kind of together as, you know, economic issues. >> president obama was actually great on this last year. he said several times, including with republicans trying to defund planned parenthood, which would overwhelmingly impact low

income women, he said this is an economic issue. this is a pocketbook issue. i think in general this is -- also relates to the rape insurance, the wealthier you are, the more you are actually given leave for privacy. we talked about making private decisions. money actually insulates you from the eyes of the state. hobby lobby is a company, you know, as you know, has gone before the supreme court that is run by billionaires. a billionaire family that has low wage employees who are women in a craft store. those women are now not able to have their own private medical care because they have the misfortune of working for these guys. there's a real economic hierarchy at play here. >> we have to leave it there. obviously these are important issues. the wage gap. all of it. we're going to keep on it. i hope you guys will come back and we can keep talking about it. keep these things on the front burner. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks, jodi jacobson and erin carmon. that does it for me. please don't forget, share your thoughts. find us on facebook and tweet us

@msnbcdisrupt. i'll see you back here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. eastern. [ male announcer ] this duracell truck

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