good morning ervgsd. we continue our coverage of that breaking news in boston. at least four different buildings on harvard university's campus have been evacuated. cambridge police saying there have been unconfirmed reports of explosives placed on the campus. here's what one student told chris jansing just a short time ago. >> i was in the dining hall and the college made an announcement that the finals -- just this morning's finals, the 9:00 finals have been cancelled. i think people overall were elated in a sense because it does take a stressor off, but as i said people are confirmed because it is a little bit, you know, it causes anxiety when one hears that explosive devices may be in places that you frequent. >> again, some of the first initial reports came out this morning at 9:00 a.m. about this. rehema ellis joins me with what's happening. i was following different tweets coming out and i noticed as exam

week began, the finals on harvard's campus on thursday, they go through the 21st. as we heard from that one student there, people cheering in the dining hall at the thought that the finals are not going to be happening today. but obviously they are taking this very seriously there as we reported in the last hour. the atf has just showed up along with the massachusetts state police. >> they absolutely have to take it seriously, thomas, because boston sits right -- or cambridge and harvard university just sits right across the river from where the boston marathon bombings occurred. including they're just down the street from mass avenue where there was a shooting of the officer at m.i.t. in connection with the bombing during the boston marathon. while some students might be chuckling and maybe even relieved because they may not have been as thoroughly prepared for their exams this morning as they would like to be, authorities are taking this very seriously. you talked about how the fbi may be on the scene at this point, but from not just campus police

but cambridge police, boston police, state police as well as other authorities who are going to get involved with this to try an find out what's going on. you should know that harvard university, one of the oldest if not the oldest university in this country, it's located in harvard square. it is an urban campus. there is something like 6700 undergraduate students and thousands more who are graduate and professionals on campus. they were in an urban environment. so the harvard yard where these four buildings, they have been evacuated, that sits in a very populated area. not just populated with students, but with people of all different other kinds of activities who are related to that area. so they can't take this lightly. this is the beginning of the second week of exams, as you pointed out. could a student be nervous about not being prepared and could this be some sort of a hoax to delay the final exams? they don't know. but they cannot take any chances that it's only a hoax. they have got to investigate this thoroughly. >> as you point out, it's a

bustling area. as we look at the graphic on our left, we see the four different buildings that are being observed right now after these unconfirmed reports came in. we've got the science center, thayer, sever and emerson. there are about 21,000 students combined between the undergraduate and classes for those seeking higher forms of education and then the urban area that it sits in. last month we just had yale university in new haven, connecticut, placed on a campus lockdown for most of the day after an anonymous caller warned officials that his roommate was heading there planning to shoot people. as clint van zandt, former fbi profiler, was pointing out, there was recently in the paper there, the "boston globe," they just revealed their investigation, the five-month investigation into the tsarnaev brothers and the background of these men and that maybe that has some sort of catalyst approach to this that maybe someone in the area was reading about that.

as we look at behavioral science, it will be fascinating when we figure out how the police can trace back where these first reports came in. >> it will be interesting to see if they can do that. were these cell phone reports? were they reports that came through e-mail? also if it was a student at harvard university, understand these are very smart kids, young people who go to this university. might they find some way to thwart the authorities' efforts to locate where the calls originated from. they can't take any chances about whether or not they are hoaxes. could one have been placed in the science center? are there materials in the science center that could be used in some sort of explosive capacity? yes, i would say that there probably are. and because of that, again, this has to be taken very seriously and clearly. they have evacuated those buildings. students have been told to clear out of harvard yard. i understand from our sister station. whdh, up in boston, it's more of a difficult task to get all of the students to get out of harvard yard because some of them are curious about what's going on. but they're taking this very seriously, thomas, and so they

should. >> rehema ellis. we're going to ask you to stand by. we're going to bring in alex witt. alex also has a son attending harvard. she joins me now on the phone. alex, as i understand, you were the recipient of the parent alert this morning that went out. what did it say? >> well, i have to say harvard has been really great. they do send out alerts as needed. this one was particularly unnerving because it said -- i'll read it to you, thomas. it said reports of explosives at four sites on campus, science center, thayer, sever and emerson. please evacuate those buildings now. a couple of minutes later it said they are on the scene investigating. i was listening to rehema's report and she made a good pointing. the reason i took this seriously and thought maybe it's a prank was because of the science center being involved. i mean there are plenty of

materials there that could be used for materials, a good point that she made. also sever and emerson, in addition to the science center, are places where exams are going on. so you think, all right, maybe there is something to this. i should say that thayer is a residential dorm for freshmen on the harvard old campus. and, you know, imagine these poor kids who are studying for exams and some of them probably sleeping after pulling all-nighters and they get this kind of alert that says evacuate now. i mean that's unnerving. but i should say i woke up my poor son, immediately called him, and he's been studying and these kids do pull all-nighters. fortunately he was in his residential college, which is along the river along memorial drive called dunster house, so he's a bit removed from where all the activity is, but unnerving to say the least. >> you're wearing two different hats here, alex, and we're putting you in this position because of your knowledge of

harvard but also personal information about what's going on with his son. what was his reaction and what were his friends saying? >> he immediately went downstairs to the d hall, the dining hall. those kids are pretty much staying put. he actually -- i put a hat on him as well and said hey, buddy, reach out and see if you know anybody who had to be removed from taking an exam and get their reaction. he said yeah, the kids that he knows would be probably pretty upset because they study pretty hard. they want to knock these things out and get them done and over with. so he said that would be unnerving for those kids. but, you know, they're all just hung hunkering down and studying. fortunately he didn't have an exam today, so this may set it back a little bit for his studying but nonetheless he's glad to be safe and glad that he doesn't have a mom now calling him all the time, which i would have been if i didn't know he was safe where he is. >> we can completely understand why you want to know how safe he is, but alex real quickly, just

confirm that parental alert that you got. do you know, is that the same type of alert that your son would get? the same type of language? if i heard you correctly, it didn't say anything about unconfirmed reports of explosives, it seemed more definitive. alex, can you still hear me? all right, we may have lost alex witt right there. we'll bring her back and see if she can clarify that parental alert. i want to bring in michael leiter, the former director for the national counterterrorism centering. it just crossed my desk the president has been informed about the situation at harvard. the statement from the white house says we continue to encourage the public to follow directions from the local officials. the white house will remain in touch with our federal, state and local partners and the president will continue to receive briefings as needed. in the last hour it was reported that the atf was on scene as well as the massachusetts state police. who takes lead, michael, in a situation like this?

>> this will largely be managed by the cambridge police department, potentially the massachusetts state police if it's a large enough incident would take over. but the federal officials would really be in support of those local governments. i would highlight the fact that the president is being briefed on this shouldn't bring any additional alarm. that would be completely routine. as soon as something breaks of national news like this, the national security adviser, the homeland security adviser will go to the oval office, give him a couple quick minutes and say we'll update you if anything else comes of it. people should not read into this as being a more national or significant event just because the president has been briefed. >> they say follow the directions from local officials and the white house will stay in touch. michael leiter, thanks so much. we'll take a quick break and regroup as we get more information about what's taking place there on the harvard campus. and then there is also that disturbing report where the "boston globe" unveils its

five-month investigation into the two brothers accused of masterminding the boston bombings. the feds thought they might be linked to terror groups but was something else really going on? plus this man is the government's top expert on climate change. highest paid employee at the epa. nbc news has learned he's avoiding doing his actual job, has done avoidance for years, bilking the government. and you may have heard of the series "sister wives." a federal judge has struck down part of utah's polygamy law brought on by the stars of that show. what type of ripple effect can this have? next a man is carjacked and killed outside a high-end mall in new jersey. the latest in an emotional weekend surrounding gun violence and the chances for national reform, next. hi honey, did you get the toaster cozy?

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welcome back, everybody. i'm thomas roberts. this was going to be our top story today before that breaking news at harvard. what exactly will it take when it comes to confronting gun violence in this country. another round of gun violence stuns a very small community just days after another colorado community suffers the wrath of another teen shooter. right now police in new jersey have located an suv in newark that they believe belongs to suspects in a deadly carjacking at short hills mall last night. this chopper video is showing the silver vehicle being towed away moments ago. >> the victim had opened the door for his wife. she had started to get in the vehicle. as he got to the driver's side and started to get ready to enter the vehicle, he was approached by two males and was shot before he entered his vehicle. >> now, authorities say that the husband, a 30-year-old, and his wife had just finished their shopping late last night when

all of this happened. the 30-year-old died a short time later at the hospital. after that shooting, police are looking for the couple's silver range rover and the details they were able to get from that or will be able to get from that but it's a real weekend of raw emotions surrounding gun violence. on friday police say an 18-year-old student at arapahoe high school in colorado stormed the school looking for a teacher. he shot 17-year-old claire davis in the head point blank, eventually turning the weapon on himself. >> it was just really scary. we were all afraid that we were never going to see our friends and family again. >> out of the blue she just probably looked over and said what are you doing and all of a sudden she got -- she got shot. it's terrible. it's terrible. >> she would defini-- he would last person you'd assume would do that. >> the karl that i knew was a good person but obviously the karl that came into school on friday was not. >> it's hard to use the word "miracle" but it's a miracle

more people weren't -- i mean the kid obviously intended on hurting many more people and yet it was interrupted and stopped. >> meanwhile, it was over the weekend on saturday, it marked the one year since the killings of 26 children and educators at sandy hook elementary school in newtown, connecticut. president obama called for a solution to america's epidemic of gun violence. >> we have to do more to keep dangerous people from getting their hands on a gun so easily. we have to do more to heal troubled minds. >> and consider this, a stunning statistic. more american died from guns in the u.s. since 1970, almost 1.4 million, than the number of american soldiers who have died in all the wars in our country's history. right now we go to nbc's ron mott in centennial, colorado, just miles from the columbine massacre that happened in 1999, last year's aurora theater shooting that left 12 people dead. what more do we know with karl pierson today and the details of his agenda, how long he had been

planning this? >> hey there, thomas, good morning to you. what we've been able to learn is this has been a pretty tough fall semester for karl pierson. back in september he was essentially suspended for school after allegedly making a threat against this debate coach, tracy morgan -- or tracy murphy, excuse me. so he had sort of gone into a shell, became kind of dark. so his friends were trying to pull him out of that as the semester went along. i asked one of his friends, joe red mon, who was also a co-captain on the speech and debate team with karl. karl was a national competitor at the debate level of the asked him how much this meant to him and he said that he felt that his entire future was wrapped up around this debate team and just really crushed him to be off this team. and so i also asked him did anyone see this thing coming on friday and he said absolutely not. and then he also said this. >> i mean you never see it in the moment, but looking back there are so many signs that i could have seen. he told me that, you know,

whenever he'd get angry, he'd be like i just want to shoot everyone up. that kind of thing. that can pass under the radar because guys say that kind of thing all the time. obviously he wasn't kidding. >> and obviously there's a lot of anger and pain obviously in this community, especially what happened to claire davis, a 17-year-old was shot in the face. there's some anger toward karl pierson for what he did to her. she was not the intended target here from all aspects, say the police. so it's just a real sad tragedy here. thomas. >> ron, on a larger scale, you had a opportunity to speak with the governor there, john hickenlooper. this comes as some lawmakers there say they lost their jobs in a recall election for supporting stricter gun laws. so what did the governor have to say about why this keeps happening in colorado and why there is resistance to gun control laws despite these tragedies? >> yeah, i asked him point blank. i said what is going on here? and he says god only knows.

there's no rational explanation why this is happening here. he said coloradans are sick of this violence. he said listen, this is the west. there's a very strong second amendment spirit here but there's also a lot of strong opinions about making communities like centennial safer. everybody wants that. he says the hard work will be coming together to find the right balance to bring all those opinions together. that's going to be very difficult here, not only in colorado but around the country as this debate goes on. but he says everyone wants schools like this to be the safe havens that they used to be and not what we saw here on friday. >> ron mott in centennial, colorado. thanks so much. we want to bring into the conversation pennsylvania democratic senator bob casey. sir, it's good to have you here. you wrote an opinion piece one year after newtown entitled we owe it to our children to do everything in our power to prevent another tragedy. in it you talk about being a stronger defender of the second amendment who believes that people should be able to have guns for protection, sporting and collection but also believe

we need sensible gun legislation that will help prevent these tragedies. we know that a comprehensive gun control bill was defeated in the senate in april and the head of the gun owners of america was on fox news sunday saying not only are background checks futile, but the gun lobby is planning to go on the offense and now press for repeal of laws currently in place. i want to play a small part of what he had to say. >> the legislation is on the books is lethal. it is killing people. all of these gun-free zones are murder magnets. and we've simply got to get rid of them. it's an illusion to think that somehow we're going to be safer because we can't have a gun in a particular area, because the bad guy is going to have a gun. >> all right. so a lot of whistles there for fear in that conversation, but, sir, it seems pretty clear that comprehensively there is not a plan that's going to get anything done in this current congress. so what is it that you hope to accomplish in the next

legislative year? >> well, thomas, first of all, i think we have to be focused on a strategy for the short term and the long term. short term, i think it would be advisable and i would favor this to bring up the votes that were defeated last year because even though there was nothing passed in congress that put in place common sense gun measures, i believe that the country has changed. maybe not in the direction of getting enough votes for passage of those measures in congress, but i think it helps to put them in front of the american people by putting them in front of members of congress. limitations on the magazines, the number of bullets you can have at one time. limitations on the assault -- or military-style weapons. and thirdly the background check legislation, which got the most votes in addition to the measures that have to be taken on mental health. i'm not saying if you put them in front of the senate that

they'll pass necessarily, but making sure that we engage members of congress on this and then what's going to come right after that is the 2014 election. this will be the first election in american history where the advertising in the debate will be of equal weight. and i think those who are totally resistant to any change will have to be held accountable and will be held accountable in the electoral process. >> circumstansir, i want to gete record on what's taking place on the budget conversation in d.c. right now. it's up to the senate to pass this bipartisan agreement with the vote expected to come on tuesday morning. passage faces a steeper climb in the upper chamber. democrats will need at least five republican votes to make that happen. it's unclear if and how they're actually going to get them, given that many republicans oppose this measure and certain democrats are expressing their reservations. meanwhile we saw congressman paul ryan hitting the bridge

between both parties. it may be short-lived with a potential fight over the debt ceiling looming, but if we look at how the chips are falling, we see the "usa today" -- we see in the papers and how coverage of this is going today. do you expect that there is going to be the support necessary to get through the senate? >> thomas, i'm not paid as a vote counter. dick durbin is our whip who takes the roll, so to speak, on votes. but i believe that we'll get it passed in the senate. i think it will be pretty close, but i think we'll pass it. i think the main reason will be not just that there's a two-year budget in a sense built into this agreement, that you don't have to have these short-term budgets and the kind of partisan acrimony that we've had, at least as it relates to the budget, but there's also relief forsee confe sequestration. some relief from that, not total relief. and i think those two, have

budget certainty and relief from sequester will carry the day. >> dick durbin described getting these votes as a struggle. do you think that that's a fair description of how it's going to be to make it through? >> it is, but i think in the end we should have the votes because if you vote against it, what are you voting -- what are you voting for in a sense? you're voting for shorter term budget measure that say make no sense and you're voting for more uncertainty, more acrimony. and we need a lot less of both. >> bob casey, senator, thanks for joining me. i appreciate your time. >> thanks, thomas. still ahead, is congressman paul ryan setting an example for other gop hard-liners after working with democrats on the budget deal we were just talking about? republican fire brands may have a new strategy for 2014, becoming kinder and gentler in order to grab voters. our agenda panel will weigh in on that. plus another country says its top leaders will not attend the sochi winter olympics as the

anti-gay rhetoric in russia ramps up. one russian sitcom star says he would burn all gay people alive in an oven. i'm going to speak with shawn gaylord who has an important message for president obama. ♪ ♪ ♪

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so we continue to follow the breaking news out of boston. police on the scene at harvard university where the school has unconfirmed reports that explosives may have been placed in four different buildings on campus. we'll get you up to speed on that. plus can house speaker john boehner get a handle on the tea party extremists for good? our agenda panel will weigh in. it's not the "limit the cash i earn every month" card. it's not the "i only earn decent rewards at the gas station" card. it's the no-games, no-signing up, everyday-rewarding, kung-fu-fighting, silver-lightning-in-a-bottle, bringing-home-the-bacon cash back card. this is the quicksilver card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase,

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contributor, igor volsky, managing editor of thinkprogress.org and sa heel sahil kapur. we saw the headline gop firebrands tone down their message and run again. do you see a major shift in tone or a minor shift in tone? >> it's a minor shift in rhetoric. what you say is important, but what you do is even more important. and when you look at the policy, policy towards obamacare, foir instance, what they're running the 2014 election on, that hasn't changed. they want to take away coverage from people, deny coverage to lower income americans on medicaid, those who really need it most. so if the rhetoric is less harsh, i think the policy is just as harsh as it's always been. >> so as we look at the rhetoric here, we've got republicans changing certain strategies on this sahil, and narrowing their

focus to seek recovery, the large part of the blame in the recent government shut down. fingerprints from the right are all over that. so how do they try to balance that out, knowing that they were in a place of deficit before the shutdown but now they add that to their plate as well? >> thomas, i think what's important to remember is what's important to keep in mind throughout this is we're seeing a change in rhetoric and a change in kind of the way they talk about things but there's no fundamental policy shift happening here. conservatives don't believe they need to change policy and republican leaders aren't really interested in that. they want to sell what they have in the best possible way and that's why you're seeing things about wanting to avoid shutdowns and the budget deal we had between paul ryan and patty murray. that was more an issue of overlap where the two sides agreed than really an issue of compromise. both sides said, okay, we're done with government shutdowns. republican leaders didn't want a repeat of that. on obamacare it's still full

repeal and women's equality and lbgt equality, they haven't changed policy there so they're attempting to salvage the best they can and sell them in the best possible way before 2014. >> if overlap means governing and moving forward, that's a good thick. >> and, thomas, i think to answer your question, it's really paul ryan and the republican party at this point, they didn't have any other direction but to make sure that they looked like they were negotiating with the democrats because the government shutdown hurt so many americans. people in the very districts they're trying to woo and their base. so for the very first time i think americans got a practical lesson of what happens when government doesn't work with the government shutdown. the fact that they had to come in and negotiate and seem reasonable to their constituency, because they don't want that hanging over them when it comes 2014. that was more political. it was more political survival than anything else. and the fact that they had paul ryan do it, someone that is seen as conciliatory on the hill but

very much a tea party person in the rest of the eyes of the republican party is incredibly important to note. >> and there the business community was really key, coming in and telling lawmakers we have to have stability, we can't have this kind of shutdown time and time again, which is why i think the recent comments that paul ryan made that maybe republicans will try to get some concessions for raising the debt ceiling is really pandering to the base and not so much a real policy because i think the traditional republican business base is saying you're right. you guys, we need for you to govern maybe just a little bit so the economy doesn't tumble. >> well, they need to govern and what they don't want to do is create a slate such as the moderate republican that was run in alabama that basically ousted the tea party congressman. and mitch mcconnell was really key behind the scenes saying what happens when we start running more moderate republicans and actually making them run against the tea party. that scared them of the and that was basically a quiet dog

whistle to the tea party saying you better back off because otherwise we're not going to have funding for your campaigns. >> we'd like to think they are making all this progress for the benefit of all of this, the american taxpayer. but they're looking out for their own hides and knowing about re-election or whether or not they're going to be politically viable moving forward or if they are going to be kryptonite and almost untouchable. sahil, i'll give you the last word on this. do you agree that this is more about preservation than it is governing? >> of course it is. that's how political parties work and that's how we should expect them to work. when the rubber will meet the road it's on obamacare because republicans are running an a platform of full repeal. they haven't changed that at all. come january 1st, thousands if not millions of their constituents will be covered. so there is going to be a dilemma in terms of do we try to help them and improve what's on the books or just run full speed ahead and say let's wipe this off the books. the party has not seriously thought about a plan b if obamacare does succeed. it's sort of an article of faith

that this law will collapse under its own weight. so if it does succeed, that's going to be a major reckoning moment. >> there are a number of people betting against it already. maria teresa kumar, igor volsky and sahil kapur, great to see you. you can join our agenda setters on our website, thomasroberts.msnbc.com. reason. i go to angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact i can go onto angie's list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i've found on angie's list actually have blown me away. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.

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ly tamerlin was hearing voices. >> well, the parents did see a psychiatrist quite frequently but in addition to the struggles he was going through, he was their golden boy. he was the person on whom all of the hopes were placed and it was hard to persuade the mother there was something really wrong with him. as this progresses and the parents move away, there's nobody there monitoring what's happening with him. >> let's talk about the trip that he took in january of 2012 because you've uncovered some new potential reasons for the visit, seasons that may cast some doubts on russian security officials' claims that he made contact with islamic radicals while he was there. >> the thing is to understand that, you have to know that on the internet, recruitment of people for the quiet jihad war

is constantly going on. he might have bumped into that on the internet. but the situation is very complicated and the vetting that goes on to join these groups is intense. the people that he did get in touch with -- it's difficult for someone like him who sticks out radically to clandestinely do anything. also the biggest problem we had with the russian version is if they know somebody is meeting with the underground, they get them. they wouldn't let them do that for six months and then fly off to america. >> so when we look at the initial patterns of these brothers that we all learned, david, the assumptions made that he was the mastermind and the younger brother, dzhokhar, just followed along, your investigation reveals dzhokhar had a pattern of risk taking,

drug dealing and you framed the brothers as co-equals in failure on this. was dzhokhar, the younger one, not passive as we originally thought in all of this planning? >> we have this vision of this curly-eyed slacker who was drawn into this by a domineering brother. now the brother's life is in a spiral. he has trouble keeping things together, can't keep a job, bouts of violence and these voices. meanwhile dzhokhar has a drug-dealing business. dzhokhar is living the life. he feels like he can talk his way out of anything. he's a leader among his friends. he comes off as far more calculating, manipulative character and the brother much more of a wreck which completely turns the narrative around from what we thought, which is the tough guy brother pushing his younger brother into doing this thing. >> so what about the fbi in all of this. they have been criticized for failing to prevent the bombing. some red flags that have gone up since they had investigated the brothers for three months in 2011. they closed the file on them at

that time. given all of these family and personal issues for your investigation, do you think that the bombing could have been prevented? could the fbi have done more? >> first of all, that story comes in part from the russian version of events that had tamerlin meeting with jihadis which we doubt is entirely true. at the same time the fbi did get a flag from russia and did investigate him. the thing is if they're talking to people who are struggling in america, have emotional, psychological problems, there are a lot of people like that who don't blow up bombs or set off bombs at marathons. so the idea that they might have shoveled that away, it does show in inattentiveness to flags that could have gone off but at the same time it's hard to say that just talking to tarm lynn tsarnaev that he's going to set off a bomb. >> a fascinating look at peeling off the layers what was going through these brothers' minds.

david filipov, thanks so much. i appreciate it. coming up next, the issue of polygamy has come into our living rooms with the tv show "sister wives." now a federal judge has struck down part of utah's polygamy law brought by the actual show's stars. could this decision have a ripple effect? i'll check in with pete williams next. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy.

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so the star of the tv reality show "sister wives" is now at the center of a federal court ruling that struck down part of utah's rule on polygamy. cody brown and his family sued the state in 2011 claiming that the law violates his family's right to privacy. >> there are those that keep wanting to place the stereotype back on us and keep wanting to say, hey, you believe in a faith that is faulted. you're weak women. you're a controlling man. you're all these things that people wanting to stereotype with the lifestyle. they will not validate that we

are having a good experience and that in our culture people have a good experience. >> so now under the new ruling, polygamy is still illegal, but at the same time cody brown and his wives may now live legally as a family. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams joins us from our washington bureau with more on this. so, pete, lay out the legal logic behind this decision and then the type of ripple effect that it could have. >> well, the logic is polygamy itself in its truest sense, getting married to one person and then getting a marriage license to marry a second person or third, that's still illegal under the law in utah. but what the judge struck down is the part of the law that said you could be married to one person and profess, claim that you were married and live like you were married to others as long as you weren't getting a marriage license for those others, the judge said that's okay. and what he said was the state isn't criminally prosecuting people that are in adulterous

relationships, only when they claim they're doing it for religious purposes and that's religious discrimination. he said the court feels compelled to identify an absurd tee in the state's position against religious cohabitation at a time cohabitation at a time much discussion in society about problems arising from the decline in rates of people marrying or increased age people decide to marry, the statute penalizes people from making a firm marriage-like commitment to each other. as far as what's going to happen next, the governor of utah has said he will likely appeal he's considering it. remember, you have a federal judge striking down part of a state law. that's often a red flag to state officials. in terms of states, utah doesn't recognize polygamy. every state has a law against bigamy, being married to more than one person. there aren't a lot of families that practice what -- this is a small sect, original offshoot

back when the mormon church encouraged polygamy, doesn't have a lot of followers. ripple effect, probably not a big one. >> pete, good to see you. the president of france will not be going to the winter lfrs in soichi, neither will any official. francois snubbing the olympics in russia. it was last week germany's president and european union's justice commissioner both announced they will go -- or they will not be going to the winter games. both governments faced pressure from the human rights groups in protest of russia's anti-gay laws. one human rights is urging to send lgtb leaders as part of its official u.s. delegation to the winter olympics. joining me now is human rights first advocacy council.

you sent a letter asking to send lgtb leaders to sochi. why do you think that's more effective approach than what the french government is doing not sending anybody. >> i don't think it cancels each other out. i think the president and first lady not sending them is something we would support, send a lower level delegation. we think it's important to have lgtb people on the delegation. it sends a strong message to russia and the world about lgtb people in society. >> do you know of anybody on the short list to be a part of the u.s. delegation? do you have any word? was the first lady did go as part of the delegation to the summer olympics. >> we haven't heard anything official yet. i think the news is supposed to come out in the next week or two. we do know the administration has received our letter.

we had opportunities to do follow-up in other meetings that the white house and state department and we have reaffirmed that ask. >> one of the things we've been covering, what is happening in russia, what type of violence lgtb is facing there. certainly this propaganda law allowed cover for hostility people have, homophobia that exists in russia now. there's a well-known tv actor in russia who last week said this. i would put all the gays alive in an oven. i can't be indifferent about it because it's a threat to my children. there's the actor who made that reprehensible statement. how do you feel about the symbolic act of being at the olympics, having openly gay people as part of the delegation and what type of message that sends not only to vladimir putin

but a message to the lgtb community in russia. i would imagine without this type of attention, they have to feel very isolated. >> absolutely. we're on the ground with people in russia pushing for full equality. human rights organized a briefing for several of them last week on the hill. we talk to them constantly. we're definitely taking our cues from what they think would be most helpful. they agree having lgtb people as part of the delegation would send that type of message they need to send. they need to be included in russian society, they need cultural acceptance. sending a delegation that includes lgtb officials i think can help move that forward. >> it's not about asking for special protection. it's about asking and seeking equal respect. we do know as we look at the larger picture, shawn, lgtb rights is just one of the points of friction between our country and russia right now as we look

at the litany of other things right now. it's russia's support for syria, relationship in iran, current prices in ukraine, protection of asylum granted to nsa leader edward snowden. how do you think the president can balance the delicate foreign policy issues but take a decisive stand on human rights. so many people consider president obama to be the first gay president. >> that is something the president has to struggle with all the time. i would describe what's happening in russia as real crisis in the lgtb community. you see stories of young men lured into situations where they are beaten and assaulted and humiliated on camera. those perpetrators are known, videos are shown and everybody knows who is committing those crimes. yet, the police do absolutely nothing. you know there's a proposal that's going to come back after the olympics to allow the

russian authorities to take children away from lgtb parents. i think when things like that are happening, it rises to a whole new level. even though president obama does have to balance competing concerns, i think the situation there is getting very frightening. >> shawn, great to have you on. thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> that's going to wrap things up for me. i'll see you tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. "now" with alex wagner coming your way next. hi, alex. >> hi, thomas. while congress prepares to pass a relatively drama-free budget the gop soap opera continues. we'll discuss schisms and civil war. plus we will look at robert draper's new piece about the grip of the gun lobby and nra power struggle. will the rise of the new left guide president obama on a more progressive path. all that when "now" starts right after this. sweet things your family loves with 0-calorie monk fruit in the raw. it's made with the natural, vine-ripened sweetness of fruit, so you can serve up deliciously sweet treats

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irish flairup or revenge of the moderate? it's monday december 16th and this is "now." the budget deal reached by paul ryan and patty murray passed thursday by the house has sparked plenty of warm feelings, optimism and headlines heralding a new era of cooperation in washington. similarly house speaker john boehner's decision to finally stand up to outside conservative groups has some declaring a tectonic shift,ed leader has turned a corner on its impotent past. moderates reasserting control on their base writes kathleen parker in the "washington post," we could be witnessing the first shots of an old guard revolution from which emerges the leader republicans are waiting for.