first of many votes like this in the senate. >> chuck, last week i saw glimmers of hope coming out of washington. we had the john boehner assault on heritage, which was a beautiful thing. then we had the ryan murray budget come out. i was like, wow, amazing things are happening and paul ryan went on another network and said this. we as a caucus along with senate counterparts will meet and discuss what it is we want out of the debt limit. we're going to decide what it is we can accomplish out of this debt limit fight. >> is paul ryan really laying the groundwork for another hostage taking situation? >> well, i can tell you there are plenty of republicans who thought before the shutdown strategy of using defunding of health care that thought the debt limit was the better place to go because the argument made behind the scenes which was rejected by conservative groups was you already set a precedent and agreed to a precedent that said okay, cuts for debt limit.

that is -- there is some sort -- he's agreed to it a couple of different times, there's precedent there and you can go and draw the line there. and of course, they overplayed their hand and went the shut down route and the rest is negative history. the president stood his line in the debt limit before. just now a few minutes ago, the briefing wrapped up and jay carney was asked if anything had changed in the president's thinking on debt limit. he said no. i think realistically, because of the scenario outlined having to do with health care and the belief that it is their ticket. there's not going to be a debt limit showdown. the house will try a few things but senate republicans aren't going to go down that road. they don't want to disrupt -- can you imagine? they don't want to disrupt in an election year where they believe is a better message or health care, one month essentially -- 15 days before the end of the

enrollment period to disrupt the country on debt limit. >> i'm happy you think there won't be another showdown situation, but did you think we were going to get into one the last time around? >> well, i didn't think we would get to a shutdown, especially since leaders were saying that. when you consider where things stand politically for the republican party, if it was malpractice before, what's -- if there is a word to describe political malpractice for going down this road, i would choose that word. i don't have it in my head but it's more than malpractice. >> jonathan, last i checked unemployment insurance was not in the senate budget. how much of a hammer will that be for democrats next year? -- against the republicans that is? >> i'm not sure it will be. republicans are more comfortable excluding unemployment insurance extensions now than they have been before. it's been extended for years and democrats keep talking about it

and republicans felt comfortable leave teenager out and so did the democrats. if they thought this would be a political tool to use or hurt democrats to not extend it, you might have seen that extended in the deal and it's going to be hard road for democrats to get that done. perhaps as part of a debt limit deal at some point or appropriations bills that still have to go through congress in mid-january, this another spending fight coming up real shortly. >> i think chris van hollen said one strategy would be to demand it be part of the farm bill so democrats are definitely still wanting to see unemployment benefits extended. the argument that republicans make, we have done it so far and at some point you have to cut them off. if we can put the chart up that shows how high unemployment continues to be and you see the spike in the recession and we're at a place where short-term

unemployment is back to prerecession levels because we have a problem with long-term unploilt. is there any recognition of that problem on capitol hill or any sort of bipartisan or either paer party looking to address the root problem and get these working again? >> rea torically one of the favorite republican hits as the unemployment rate has been coming down, but don't forget about the long-term unemployed. >> right. >> i think rhetorically there are republicans in a box here. one time you can't say you don't need it anymore and at the same time say every time there's unemployment report come out that shows improving unemployment rate, that's going down, then bring up the long-term unemployment. there's a little bit of a hypocrisy thing there. i think you're going to -- i do think there's going to be an extension here. i think it's going to be sho short-term. three months, maybe six months, something like that that is

very, very short-term because i think again, this is where there is some leverage that democrats have and i go back to this health care messaging idea that the republicans believe they have. this is why we'll get minimum wage increase at some point in the first six months of next year. i don't think republicans want to give democrats economic wedge issues like unemployment, like the minimum wage and allow them to basically run with it and against republicans instead of health care. so i think there's going to be a coalition of the willing amongst some republicans that will be there on both of these issues potentially. let's see how it goes but i can see under that bigger idea of hey, don't mess with the health care message -- >> that's great to hear, chuck. >> it could be good for the dems and good for america too. two men, four first names.

>> chris matthews, brian williams, david gregory, all sorts of two first names. >> all right. next an update on story folks have a lot to say about. cell phones on planes. the l.a. times michael hill seck joins us as "the cycle" rolls in. give me some of that new beyonce. ♪

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we are back with a story just calling to be talked about, cell phones on airplanes.

it's a hard sell to say the least. >> wow. >> pun is over. our next guest says, hold the phone. no, serious, for the next few minutes dialed into "the cycle." >> i'm sorry. i really am sorry. michael, we've been talking about this here on the show, the possibility that folks would be able to make cell phone calls on airplanes. it seems like a terrible, terrible idea. what is the latest? >> well, i should tell you by the way, full disclosure, i'm a shusher. >> jonathan capehart is also a shusher. >> i've been this close to telling people in movie theaters to shush before the lights go down. >> amen. >> and i don't get on a plane without my noise canceling headphones dialed up to the cone of silence. i think we're really a long way

before we get to the point we'll be listening to people in the next seat over talking on their cell phone. what happened most recently is that the federal communications commission voted to take comments on a plan to lift their ban on cell phone use on an aircraft. but they also said that they think it's going to be the faa that makes the final decision and it will be the airlines to make the final, final decision. i think we've got a ways to go before we have to worry about this. the forces are really against lifting the ban. >> i think that might be right. you speak for many of us, including myself, when you write, no sensible person wants the ban on voice calls lifted. anybody who has flown especially in the modern cram the planes fuller ra, the suffering of a couple of yaping passengers. you have folks making the rules totally against this. why even vote on it?

why even put it up for a vote? >> well, first thing, the fcc is a technical agency and what they said was we've had a rule in place not allowing cell phone use on aircraft because of the fears that the cell phone signals would interfere with the electronics on board and also with the networks and what they've said is that it now looks like there's technology at hand that can shield the cell phone signal from those other systems and make that a lot more safe. you can get on a plane and use your smartphone based on each airline's wishes. so the fcc is saying, as long as there's technology that makes our ban unnecessary, you don't need us. we're going to step out of the way. and we may say that an airline has to have this new technology on board to shield before it can allow passengers to use phones but that's fine.

that's a completely different rule from saying no phone use at all. they did say in terms of the customer relations aspect, that's the faa's department. >> so michael, if the airlines were it allow cell phones to be used gate to gate, what measures would be put in place to protect yapping passengers from assault or mischief? would we look at airlines setting up sections of the plane like a quiet car part of the plane or -- >> yeah. >> or charging exosh tant fees. >> i'm not sure you can set up quiet zones, there's no place to go. i think what's most likely is the airlines would set up a system where they would enable you to use your smartphones but not for voice. they can do that, the technology is available to allow that to happen and they are going to sell you the access to that system in the same way they are now already selling you access

to wi-fi operations. and the airlines want to be able to do that because as we know, fees are the name of the game in the airline industry. so what you would do and then advertising, if you get on a plane, it will only cost you whatever, $5.99 for a short flight, $10.99 for a long flight. they are selling you your meals now. so i think they would -- i think they would rule out -- >> jonathan makes me think about the situation we have on amtrak where there's eight or nine cars where you can do whatever you want and there's one quiet car, demand for a quiet car only as to any ses tate just one of them and people travel up and down the corridor and don't get into fights in the situations where people can talk on the phone as much as they want, and don't you think just as a social dynamic

that we as a society would be able to have phones on planes without getting into fights all the time? >> well, i think the social dynamic on planes is different from what it is on a passenger train. first of all, to go the entire flying experience can be a lot more annoying. 200 people get on a plane and already ticked off. 200 people ticked off of the delay and they've been through the tsa gauntlet and flight attendants and pilots evare sensitive to the fact there is no escape and last thing they want is one more inflection point they have to monitor and have to police. i think there's going to be a real difference. even on the train. you can get up and walk around from the point -- >> you can escape. >> even when the train is parked

at the depot, at the station and once it gets rolling, there's no limit on what you can do. on a plane it's very different. it's a tighter fit in many ways and the chances for aggravation are much, much greater. >> it's an interesting aspect of human psychology that we find in the overheard cell phone conversation so much more irritating than the actual conversation. thank you so much. >> my pleasure. >> before we step aside in a segment we want to mark the passage of an american icon, george rod reeg and you'll find him listed as a famous cajun artist. >> he had big dreams as well. he did it through his art and escape he did. with childhood pals like his buddy who barn starmed louisiana and texas and opened a gally in lafayette, louisiana and became

a regional celebrity. in the mid-80s, it exploded all over america. had three pillars, food by prudhom. >> you add more spices. >> that's a latin type right there. >> we won't let you have all that. >> and cajun landscapes then became the big idea and channelled his late dog tiffany and the blue dog was born. gave him more fame and fortune. >> blue dog is sort of left the cage and finding his own way around the world. and taking a little cajun with him. >> gal galleries came, even in germany and japan, painted presidents and prime ministers and george did something that can only happen in america, he became an art icon, no matter

how much money he made or famous people he met, nothing changed george. you can hear him telling stories, laughing at your jokes or harder at his own. he always was ready to talk, even if you had one too many on bourbon street the night before. the fektous laugh and piercing eyes were always present. when he died saturday night at 69 after a long battle with cancer, we lost an american original. he survived by his wife wendy and sons. by thousands of people who met him along the road through his art and through his books. george is gone but thankfully the spirit and art will live forever. [ woman 1 ] why do i cook? to share with family. [ woman 2 ] to carry on traditions. [ woman 3 ] to come together even when we're apart.

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let's get you up to date in the news cycle.

police have recovered the range rover stolen in a carjacking. the owner a 38-year-old man was killed and wife was with hit but not hurt. the carjackers believed to be two men still at large, there's a $10,000 reward for their capture. news of america's latest school shooting broke right here on "the cycle" on friday. today we're learning more about the 18-year-old gunman. a close friend tells nbc news in hindsight he saw warning signs leading up to the shooting. karl pierson killed himself after injuring a student. they believe he had a vendetta against a teacher in the school he was not able catch up with. >> another snow storm, winter doesn't start for another five days. >> kelly kas is tracking it all for us. kelly? >> that's right. another snow snowstorm for the northeast, starting out in alberta, canada, a clipper

system that will move fairly quickly across the great lakes and into the northeast. we're not expecting a ton of snow but did he haefinitely the direction will get lake-effect going, even chicago, you could see a few inches of snow. let's track the low as it continues to move across the great lakes and what's going to happen is as we get into the day tomorrow, another low will develop along the coast and exact track will determine what type and also just how much. for now, we are thinking we could see a coating to few inches of snow in the bigger cities. we're talking a few inches for central park in new york, up towards log an and boston there could be delays and snow, give yourself plenty of time for that morning commute. it looks like another snowy day in the hudson valley. 3 to 5 inches across kingston and poe kip see. 5 to 8, and some of you have seen 3 to 4 feet of snow from

the last snow event and we're also looking at plenty of snow in the western parts of pennsylvania as well. delays at the airports and slowdowns on the roads as well. be careful out there. >> kelly cass, thanks so much. now to the dirty truth about antibacterial soup. there is no evidence they stop the spread of germs. if that is not the case, they are telling the makers to prove it. tom costello hasn't washed his hands of the story, he's soaking up latest. >> that's bad. so here's the bottom line, the fda says it sees no sign that these antibacterial soups do any job in keeping germs away than regular soap and water and yet the antibacterial soaps carry chemicals in them and it has been linked for years according to experts with various things,

including the possibility of disrupting hormones and thyroid functions and in addition to that, potentially making us all more resistant to germs and bacteria which is ab ongoing fight that the fda has and cdc has trying to keep bacteria resistant to ands, you need to prove your claims that the anti-bacteria soaps do work better than regular soap and water and that they are safe. that's going to be -- for the industry. if they are unable to get by the year 2015 -- or 2016, i believe it is, they will have to take them off the market or relabel them and remarked it. so this is a beginning of a process that the fda is starting here. we're talking about soap. not talking about hand sanitizers like people carry in their purses or you have in the

car or at the office. we're talking about liquid -- usually -- not always, liquid soap and the concern is there simply is no evidence that in fact they are antibacterial or that they work any better than regular soap. a lot of experts are saying, listen, this may be the opportunity for you at home to decide next time i buy soap i'm not going to go with antibacterial stuff, just regular and soap which works very well. >> tom costello, thank you for that refresher. >> how your workplace could undergo big changes. stones or baeatles? inside the epic showdown that was music to all of our ears for decades. that's all ahead on "the cycle." ♪ you can't always get what you want ♪

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as we get ready to bid adew to 2013, we wanted to take a moment to reflect on the last year in business. our next guest says there are changes on the horizon shifting everything from the way cutting edge companies choose executives to the way you deliver your resume. does that mean typewriters are -- >> yes. >> the executive editor -- >> ask him. i know. >> it's because you're old, tour'e. >> the question to you, dan, did 2013 meet the expectations that folks in the industry thought the year would, that the year held? >> there were a number of trends that happened in 2013 that were exactly what people predicted

and there are other ones that came on so fast that it caught a lot of business leaders by surprise. the number one in that area is probably mobile. everyone assumed the mobile revolution would come slowly, talking about number of changes butted speed and the impact that people's dependency on cell phones and ability search for anything they want at all times is really brought huge problems for some businesses and offered huge opportunities for others. if you look at the stats, people are checking phones on average over 100 times a day. this is something that is such in part of your body almost. you use it in a way we don't use the web or interact with people in a different way, huge opportunities to look at the snap chat out of nowhere and how facebook moved to quickly in a number of services and if you're an airline, everyone basically has to get it.

they realize they've got to move even faster. that's the biggest. >> 2013 is the year you became fully aware of the data industry. how is big data changed or impacted the way companies are hiring or firing? >> that's a great question. we have a program called linked in influencer. top in the business world talking about what's coming and big change. big data was talked about the most. one of the biggest changes has been how big data changes -- how the business leaders react to their own consumers. there's no more guesswork or going on intuition or gut. what does data tell you about what people are buying or how they want to use your product, maybe you need to have different kinds of workers. we've seen date at a become a huge part of how companies are hiring. all of this through services

that basically say, look, this person works well, this kind of person doesn't work well. here are the right type of questions to ask. >> they ask find more information than twitter or facebook than your resume. >> that's true but can look back at how your current employees have done. look, we thought the right question to ask was x, y or z, but we need a person with these skills or can answer something this way. >> interesting. they are getting smarter about doing it. >> absolutely. >> dan, another of the articles that you have highlighted in terms of the big ideas for next year is a shift in investment. there's an article written by the former bank of america executive and says expressing values through investment dollars is becoming mainstream and interesting setting about the fact that 90% of -- benefits for a strong commitment to social good. feeling like you're putting your money where your values are is

one of the potential big ideas for 2014. >> what i love about the story is it's a story about disruption. the way wall street has worked until now isn't going to work in the future. they don't want to invest the way the baby boomers invested and the women don't want to necessarily invest the way that men have typically invested and those are two areas wall street is terrible about attracting. but the problem is the baby boomers are retired and no longer investing and taking their money out. who's going to fill that role? one good thing is because of exactly what you just said they care about causes and giving back and willing to accept lower returns for feeling like they made an impact. that's great for wall street because wall street promises. you don't have to do that, you can say, you might have okay results but you're going to make a huge difference in giving,

investing in tom's shoes and give back to people who need shoes. you can invest dm companies with good social intereenterprises a that's going to attract a huge new group of investors but take a massive change in the way wall street thinks about its business. >> one tech company that was big this year that had some sort of social good from a certain perspective was snap chat. it turned down multiple billion dollar offers, this was the disruptive company in terms of technology. do you think you can see into the crystal ball and tell us what is the company in the next year? >> i'm curious why you say it was socially good. >> a little sarcasm.

>> saving reputations. one of the interesting things about senate chat is it's giving entrepreneurs a real shot in the arm. here's a company that didn't exist two years ago and is now turning down $3 billion offers. it is a sign that the current entrepreneurs aren't willing to look up to or think about being the next customer. they want to go beyond that. i think even bigger than that it points back to mobile. snap chat is all about mobile and also all about reputation and protecting it. as you see, more people moving in that area. >> fabulous, dan roth, thank you. >> up next, one of the biggest rivalries in rock and roll, beatles versus the stones. ♪ m, a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation -- an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem.

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see who does good work and compare costs. it doesn't usually work that way with health care.

but with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and estimates for how much i'll pay. that helps me, and my guys, make better decisions. i don't like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. ♪ >> i love that gritty old stones sound. if there's one thing we all agree upon at this table, that everyone loves the stones and everyone loves the beatles. and no one loves them equally because it's obvious who is better. >> the beatles. >> what are you talking about? >> the brilliance and innovation of the beatles, that stuff is amazing jonathan. >> it's always about the blues and soulfulness of the stones. >> the beatles only recorded for

seven years but still iconic and best selling band in american history but the stones are still around and they were more dangerous. and mick and those lips. >> yeah, mick and those lips. >> paul was pretty cute too. >> it will rage on and should get hotter with the pub indication of beatles versus stones by john mcmillan. was the rivalry between the groups as hot it is between us fans at the table? >> it was a pretty hotly contested throughout the '60s. fans on both sides of the atlant atlantic, define themselves whether you're a beatles fan or stones fan. >> you had the beatles that were from tougher roots and stones from the suburbs but they flip-flopped in terms of class. talk about the contrasting backgrounds. >> the beatles were from liverpool and mostly from working class backgrounds and in british society back then, there

wasn't so much class mobility. if the beatles had not become very famous as rock stars, they were looking at a life of low prestige, low wage vocations. and it was a bit different for the stones. brian jones was well he had okayeded and mick jagger did go to the london school of economics when only 2% of british kids went on to college. very different class backgrounds. >> let me ask you, john, a very provocative question. the stones have been around for 50 years. they are still out there. they are still performing. >> so what. >> but the beatles broke up after ten years in 1970s. >> what does it have to do with anything? >> let me ask him the question. did the beatles break-up do anything to the rivalry and since the stones are still together, can't we say the stones won? >> no. >> well, when the beatles broke up in 1970 they were still very

much near the height of their power. and the stones also in that period were entering a grade phase from '68 to the early '70s the stones were doing their best work. i write about how the rivalry was constructed by fans and media and the groups themselves. but having said that, the stones did dilute the catalog by carrying on and nowadays, a bit of a nostalgia act, but not really pushing new material. >> plus, absence makes the heart grow fonder. >> we talk about politics on this show obviously, and one of the other divides is the differing political philosophies between the two groups. >> the beatles were thought to be in the late '60s, very much associated with the hippie counter culture and peace and love and what not. and there was a time around 1968

where the stones were thought to be more in line with the politics of confrontation and radical street fighting new left. i don't think either group was terribly political but young people, young music figs nad dos were wrapped up between the two groups. >> there was some ideology with what beatles were doing and john lennon, the stones emerge afterward as anti-beatles. >> the beatles were a huge hit in england and they had the attitude of being the loveable -- and first when the stones were first getting going, they were wearing matching outfits and groups and then they quickly switched gears and thought they would be the anti-beatles and they were the group that disaffected teens

tended to glom on to. >> when i came i had the same e with tour'e. >> who's better? >> i don't answer that question. >> john mcmillan, the book is fantastic. congratulations "beatles versus stones." our facebook fans have been weighing in all day and so far, of course the beatles are the favorite. richard says the beatles set the stage for the stones and others. david is talking about the political route, saying he's grateful for all of these talented musicians. like us on facebook to cast your vote now. yes, virginia, there is a santa claus and he's a black man. avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive sales event is back. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car,

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♪ talk about painting it black. nothing like a little controversy for christmas. my friend, nbc's kristen welker has the latest on recent comments on the race of santa. >> hey, toure. this debate is focused on santa claus, but really a much larger issue in this country. the issue of race. and it all started when a popular cable news anchor declared, santa is white. ♪ she's making a list >> santa claus is coming to town and on a lot of kids' minds. >> santa! >> reporter: but now chris king he will is at the center of a heated debate which started when african blogger, aisha harris,

wrote a column last week arguing sen santa should be a penguin instead of a white man, insisting the switch could share kids the insecurity and shame she remembers frommed childhood. fox news anchor megyn kelly seized on the comments last wednesday. >> yet another person claiming it's racist to have a white santa. you know? and by the way, for all you kids watching at home, santa is white. >> words that got her on the naughty list of some news organizations, pundits and late-night comedians. >> here's a secret for you. i'm black as hell. >> on friday, kelly responded, saying her initial words were tongue in cheek. >> race is still an incredibly volatile issue in this country and fox news and yours truly are big targets for many people. >> harris says she doesn't buy it. >> i didn't feel as if she was joking or kidding. it felt like, honestly, she was sort of angry about the fact i suggested he couldn't be white. >> reporter: it's not just the fox flap. a high school teacher in new

mexico was recently disciplined for telling this black student santa was white. ♪ he sees you when you're sleeping ♪ >> reporter: but at this los angeles mall, old saint in this case is latino and african, diversity that makes a difference to parents. >> we heard there is a korean santa and hispanic santa. we want every year to take a different picture so he knows there's all kinds of people in the world. >> the books and tv show it as one race. i want him to be able to see there is more than one. >> nbc news contacted fox news for comment, and they declined, saying that kelly had already responded to the criticism. toure, back to you. >> kristin, my friend, that was a very nice report. but you left out a key fact. santa claus is black. he just is. look. is it that hard to deal with? i hope not.

because it's true. christm christmas carols have been written about it. >> his eyes, how they twinkled. his dimples, they amazed. and when i saw him, i exclaimed, "damn, is that isaac hayes?" >> i for one am glad santa is black because i don't want my kids worshipping some white dude. thinking a benevolent white man who gives them good stuff every year is good training for a life on welfare. talk about creating a culture dependency. is i understand how there could be some serious cognitive dissonance to imagine santa as black because of the imagery fed to you by the media and because a plaque santa means a bhak man having all sorts of power. sees you when you're sleeping, knows when you're awake, sounds like the nsa. no, santa is about love and being the repository for your children's dreams and source of unbelievable selflessness and undying generosity and saccharin

sweetness, which makes him kind of sound like an old-timy ma'amy. if you're still with me, let me go further. the original saint nick was from an area that was greek, but now turkey. you catch my drift. >> originally commissioned by the vatican, he probably looked something like this. so who exactly is changing the facts to make themselves more comfortable here? actual saint nicholas, well, my guess is there would be no christmas if he looked like that dude. because he is probably still on the no-fly list. >> and you kind of shouldn't want santa to be white, because then you have to wonder if the elves who seem to work for him for life are kind of like slaves, and you know how weird that would be. but the insistence he's not black and can't be black -- whiteness is somehow normal and central while blackness is other or different. so many black kids know how

aisha harris felt as a child when she craved icons that told her she belonged, not an outsider. why rob her of that? besides, the way you know santa isn't white is because race is fictional. it's not a biological reality. it's a socio political construct, insisting on the i am mutability of the race of someone able to fly tells me you're afraid of something. afraid, perhaps, of a black man being a deep part of childhood. but you do know, there is already a generous, benevolent black man in your children's lives who lives in a place that is magical who has given something to each and every american, whether they have been naughty or nice. you know who i'm talking about. >> i'm commander in chief and i'm two terms strong, plus i've got this health care which has got it going on. don't worry about them they, her or he said. i can educate you. jump on your mom's plan, that's hue how you get ahead. >> word up. that's our show. up next, the ari melber experience. >> toure, will you be my santa?

>> i already am giving you something, brother. >> so weird. >> good stuff. good afternoon, i'm ari melber, it's monday, december 16th and we're following fresh developments in afternoon on what the nsa can and cannot do. and we're going to talk to glen greenwald about that. first, while the house is away, will the senate play in? the deal was finally struck after every member of congress was visited by three ghosts. >> the senate is poised to pass the two-year budget agreement. >> it's a safe bet it's going to pass. >> we need bipartisan support to pass. >> it's not a done deal. it's going to be very close. >> we must not shut down the government again. >> we also don't want to have shutdown drama. >> only in washington can an agreement be so divisive. >> john has kind of got his irish up. >> you have no idea what you're criticizing. >> i see the tea party as indisenceable. read the deal and get back to me. >> are you kidding me. >> irish flare up or revenge of

the moderate? >> i prefer to keep these conversations within our family. following a lot of developing news. a federal court ruling that key parts of the nsa surveillance program are more likely unconstitutional. we'll have much more on that story with the reporter who broke these nsa disclosurers, glen greenwald. but we begin with congress. the house has gone on holiday, the senate in session for the final week this year with the big question looming, will they get the votes needed to pass the so-cd