right now. ♪ >> some technology is our friend. like the kind our friends like the kind used by the nsa which has been certified by edward snowden. we don't know how bad it is because officials have no idea how much information he has collected. that's right. the extent of edward snowden's leaks are as fuzzy and as ill-defined as his mustache. so, in a desperate bid to find out how much intel snowden took, nsa officials recently floated the idea of offering edward snowden amnesty. i would take the deal. just come back with all the intel and all is forgiven. i'll tell you what to make you feel safe we'll meet in a special amnesty zone. >> good morning. it is tuesday, december 17th. >> boy, that was an amazing

ruling, wasn't it? >> yes, it was. >> but the implications are pretty crazy. >> absolutely. with us on set we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc politicalo analyst john hamm monday and for bbc news world america, katty kay and jeremy peters. >> so i'm just wondering, if this -- if what the nsa did last year, what the government has been doing for some time, violates the most sacred tenets of the constitution, and as the judge said james madison would be deeply offended by what the federal government has done prying into other people's lives, does edward snowden then become a whistle blower because i don't know what the definition of whistle blower is but if

somebody -- if let's say this is held up to the united states supreme court, if somebody exposes like something that would be deeply offensive to james madison and the framers of the constitution, i think edward snowden has a point. >> well, i've always thought edward snowden was a whistle blower. he said from the beginning this is what he wanted to do. he wanted to expose the program which it can be challenged in open court. it's now been challenged in open court. the first of a series of legal challenges that will be heard -- >> we'll get details in one second. >> but if this is a case of which a bush appointed judge has issued a pretty stinging rebuke to the program, and edward snowden at least for today stands pretty fairly vindicated in terms of what he did, what he said he wanted to do, now seems like he can take a victory lap, at least one temporarily.

>> mika, let's get the details. >> a lot of arguments i've been hearing over the last few days he should be man of the year. the leaders of big tech companies will be setting down with president obama to discuss the nsa collection. they call the practice almost orwellian. pete williams reports. >> reporter: it's a serious legal blow to one of the controversial practices of the nsa once a secret program disclosed by a former nsa insider edward snowden. the nsa carries meta data logs of every phone number dialed by u.s. phone customers and dumps it into an enormous data. so much data the nsa is building a new facility in utah to store it all. keith alexander defends the

collection and skre ecrecy. >> we're not trying to hide it from the american people or from you but to hide it from those who walk among you who are trying to kill you. >> they only check the database when they have a lead tied to a specific phone number. but the judge said that data collecting is indiscriminate and arbitrary invasion of privacy. i'm not convinced the nsa's database has ever truly served the purpose. there's a ruling that said phone customers have no privacy interest in their calling records. the judge said that's been eclipsed by technology. >> it's ultimately going to be a decision for the court of apeels of the supreme court to decide anyway. what this one judge decides today is a conversation starter not a stopper.

>> but it's a victory for a washington, d.c. lawyer. >> meta data is information which allows the government to be able to tell who you are associating with, whether it's your doctor, your lawyer, your accountant, whoever. it's extremely intimidating. >> as for edward snowden the obama administration rejected any idea that he be given amnesty in return for ending the leaks. >> he should be returned to the united states as possible where he will be accorded full due process and protections in our systems. >> wow. okay. willie? >> katty kay, interesting thing about this it had only been argued in secret before, in a secret court with only one side arguing that being the government. this is the first time it's put out in the light of day, first time we've heard a j-a federal judge say wait a minute this violates the fourth amendment it's unconstitutional. >> the white house said they welcomed the fact we're now having this conversation and

they have now implemented a widespread review of their intelligence gathering practices, but, of course, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all if it were not for what edward snowden has done. you can argue he's a whistle blower or what he did was illegal. the nsa practices won't stop right now because of this legal victory during the appeal process and the government will appeal this ruling. they can carry on with this surveillance program. i spoke to one legal expert last night who said this made life very much more difficult for the government. it's a winnable case. they can overturn this ruling but they will have to fight it pretty hard. >> jeremy, let's talk about what's happening today at the white house where you have really a who's who from the tech industry to come and talk about that and other things. what at this point can they discuss moving forward in terms of the nsa given the ruling? >> i think actually where you're going to see a lot of

interesting dynamic movement on the nsa issues on capitol hill. this has been pushed to the side for quite a while now. you had fights or the budgets, squabbles or changing the nsa rules. you have a number of competing bills, there's one that would require the nsa to disclose more about what type of data it collects and how many times it's violated it's own internal security safeguards. my guess that comes up in a pretty good way at the beginning of next year and you have on the house side as well, sens sensenbrenner with his own bill. >> what do you think? edward snowden -- does this change people's view of him? does it change the legal system's view of him? does it change his future? >> i don't know. >> what do you think, personally? >> what i think very interesting is the confluence of politics

and privacy here. that we've had the politics of all of this going on for months if not years. eavesdropping, what the nsa has the right to collect what they don't have the right to collect. ordinary people's increasing apprehension about how much the government is taking from them. i mean the 1979 ruling was made at a time -- >> the judge called it orwellian. >> they based on a ruling in 1979. none of this existed. people wrote phone calls, wrote letters, wrote notes. now we text. i think there's a connection between not just the president's poll numbers dropping, but the respect that people had for public officials and politics in general. what is going on? what are they looking for? what are they taking from me? is this text message i'm writing an obscene text message to

someone, to willie is it going to be seen? >> where is it going? >> we saw it yesterday. >> privacy is the root of who we are as american citizens. >> this is something we'll continue to discuss throughout the show but there are some politics to discuss. montana's former governor is one of the names floating around as a possible democratic candidate for president in 2016. yesterday he took a direct one-two punch at the presumed front-runner and the sitting president. in an interview with "the weekly standard" he said quote the question that we have is will it be the hilary that leads the progressives or it is the hilly that says i'm already going to win the democratic nomination and so i can shift hard right on day one. we can't afford any more hard right. we had eight years of george bush. now we have had five years of obama who i would argue in many

cases has been a corporatist. he stopped short of saying he would run for president but said he's interested in the job. >> he's a feisty fellow. >> checking it out. >> people will start dipping their toes in the water. he's a populist. if anybody will challenge hillary clinton in 2016 they will do it from the left on populace grounds. he was a popular governor in montana. >> he didn't strike me as a left winger in montana. >> he's got that streak of western populist -- it's a tonal thing as much as a policy thing for him. but the thing is, the obviously point is he like many potential people, most americans probably 95% of americans and probably 90% of americans couldn't pick him out of a lineup compared to

hillary clinton who absolutely everybody in the democratic party knows. ate very tough thing to contemplate someone like him coming from where he is to taking her on. >> here's something kind of interesting. another sign this morning that former republican senator scott brown may be looking to get back into politics. he's found a buyer for his home in massachusetts and plans to move to neighboring new hampshire. >> you know, it's nice in new hampshire. >> it's pretty. >> that's what most people do. most people move north in december. because, you know what, it's so cold here. >> it's a retirement place. >> you want to get there to enjoy the january frost, the ice storms of february. >> there's been a lot of speculation that brown who lost his massachusetts seat to iz bet warren could challenge nam democratic senator jean shaheen. brown has made frequent stops to the granite state where he already owns a home, a conservative p.a.c. is running internet ads in new hampshire

touting brown's credential and scheduled to speak at a holiday party there this thursday. but he might not be welcomed with open arms. gop state rep said that scott brown does not represent new hampshire with his rhino anti-gun policies. brown supporter --. it to meet this guy. >> brown supported a federal assault weapons ban while senator of massachusetts. okay. >> welcome to the working week. hey, mike, you understand this area better than anybody. you know, you do. let's say if you took the joke from orlando to alabama running for office that would be different than if you took the jump from pensacola to alabama. so new hampshire and massachusetts, can this to be

done? are they close enough? >> his biggest hurdle is a republican primary i think in new hampshire because of his position on guns. he is for registration. he made several strong statements after the newtown school massacre. >> he's for registration? >> yeah. he became a pro choice republican. in the republican primary in new hampshire those would be huge hurdles for him. >> jeremy peters, you covered joth brown, what do you think? >> i my mike is exactly right. get through a republican primary will be a hard part from georgia to new hampshire. if he can do that then he would probably be a pretty formidable competitor to jean shaheen. but, you know, how exactly you get to a republican primary these days being anti-gun and

pro choice, i don't know. >> all right. let's move on to this story. i got two others coming as well. totally different change of direction here but vitamins. i'm telling you seriously, vitamins and soap, anti-bacterial soaps all ridiculous, unnecessary. we'll get to that. >> super soap. >> anti-bacterial. >> you know how much money i've saved without buying soap. >> and water bills. >> but first -- >> i'm doing great. shower one every couple of weeks. >> it's fragrant over here but you look good. >> business of to say, did you guys ever go to the doctors and doctors are pushing certain medicines. so katty, have you ever noticed -- exactly.

have you ever noticed that doctors always like you should use this. blues glaxosmithkline says it will stop paying doctors to promote its products. it won't link the compensation of its sales reps to how many prescriptions are written by doctors. there's widespread criticism that these practices are huge conflicts of interest. i don't know why it took like decades to figure that out. other companies should follow suit. >> it's called an arrest. >> happens at the dentist too, katty. >> glaxosmithkline is under investigation for corruption practices in china so they have a bit of a pr problem and now they have come out of this. they say we're just always trying to look at ways to make the distribution of medicine in america more efficient. it's certainly true that there is a conflict of interest between doctors who are speaking up on behalf of drug companies

and conferences, trying to promote drugs that people take but on your vitamins point i agree. the number of vitamins that people take -- i think it's a scam. you go to the doctor and come away with 20 different types of vitamins. i bought one bottle of vitamin d and never took one. >> are vitamins the same as vitamins. >> it's early in the morning and you're asking a lot. you're asking a lot. >> so anyway, we questioned the benefit of taking daily vitamins. >> it's so dumb. entire industry that's unnecessary. >> as of 2011 the supplement market was a $30 billion industry. i've never understood, mika, i've never understood why people shove vitamins down their mouths. just eat fruits and vegetables.

>> the physicians says the message is simple. most supplements do not prevents chronic disease or death, their use is not justified and they should be avoid. seriously. >> it's a scam. >> it's a total scam. haven't you known this 30 years? >> i have. you know, though, can i bring up something personal in my life? it's the private parts. i've been playing in bands for long time. i have horrible ringing in my ear. what do you call it? tinnitis. it's horrible. i hear voices too. i don't believe in vitamins or supplements but i took this thing, was that thing the doctor prescribed, a supplement. >> melatonin.

>> that's helping. >> good. vitamins, really quickly, i wanted to get to the -- >> i'm just saying it's actually -- i'm just saying very skeptical of vitamins but supplements which i've never taken this is working pretty well. >> pro supplement, pro ambien, pro vicadine. great ambien. it's like hammering the guys. amazing stuff. >> that's troubling. i've read that. >> not that one. >> the shark story. >> the led zeppelin thing. >> and he was snapper. >> shark story. >> okay. so vitamins aren't the only products coming under new scrutiny. i've known this for 20 years.

>> she hates this. >> my friend silvia, the fda wants makers of anti-bacterial soaps to prove they are safe and effective. right now the fda says there's no evidence they prevent the spread of infection. they are worried about certain chemicals that could trigger drug resistant bacteria. >> it's an artificial chemical that doesn't exist. we're putting it into the environment for no obvious benefit that's been demonstrated. >> the american cleaning institute says there are numerous studies that show anti-bacterial soaps are safe and effective. my point is these people clean their hands and cleaning everything, cleaning your house and everything is so clean. stop. just get over it and live your life. >> so ocd. i don't trust deodorant.

i think it causes cancer. >> i've been meaning to talk to you about that. >> there's soap. >> no deodorant. >> i hear it works for some people. >> yes, it might. how does it smell over there? >> it's pungent. >> it stings. >> it stings. i wanted to talk about the pope. >> we don't have now. next block. i totally messed up by the show by trying to put these last two stories in. am i glad i did. >> about vitamins. >> does it affect soap on a rope? >> you can have your soap on a rope. remember that? old spice. oh, my god. these stories are important. people spend thousands of dollars on vitamins. >> they get scammed for nothing. >> eat fruits and vegetables.

>> coming up on "morning joe," retired general michael hayden. also former attorney general alberto gonzales joins us. we'll talk to david axelrod and later the uk's chancellor of the ex-checker, george osborne will be here. top stories in the political playbook but first -- bill karins. bill? >> thank you for that last ten minutes. that was very entertaining. yeah. leave the soap on the rope alone. as far as the forecast, we talked about the snow coming in this morning. we're getting reports some of the roads west of new york city are starting to get slick and snow covered. we're watching as much as a quarter of an inch and the christmas tree from "30 rock," snow is coming down in downtown new york. not a big blockbuster event just a little bit with this

first batch coming through. as far as the later afternoon period goes that's when we'll watch some snow totals increasing from new england noon to 5:00 p.m. the worst will be up here from hartford, the mass pike, i-95 to providence up to downtown boston. then we may end up with three to five north and west of boston out in the loop on i-95 and that's about it. new york city we're only talking maybe one to two inches. philadelphia maybe up to an inch at most. higher totals up there, portland, maine. as far as the temperatures go, plenty cold enough to stick. the airports should be okay especially there in logan and new york city airport i think they will be all right. only a couple of inches. for the rest of you out in country enjoy a bifl day. northeast is the only cold and snowy part on the map. we'll update the snow during

"morning joe".

time now to take a look at the morning papers. "new york times," pope francis has made news this year for changing the tone of the catholic church and now he's making changes to some of those around him. yesterday the pope decided to remove american cardinal raymond burke from one of the vatican's key committees. cardinal burke was considered conservative and has been outspoken against abortion and same sex marriage. he's been replaced by cardinal donald wuerle on the committee that chooses new bishops. he's viewed as a moderate and not considered a vatican insider. >> that will be looked at by a lot of church watchers.

"wall street journal" says pets may protect children against asthmas and allergies. in san francisco pets may change a child's response to the allergies for the better. scientists say exposing kids to pets as an early age allows them to develop -- >> same concept of anti-bacterial -- i'm telling you, we're trying rid our society of everything to the point we can't stand up against anything. we need cats and dogs. >> i want a cat in the show. >> have it on your shoulders. i like that. >> what would we call it? >> i don't have any comment. >> mr. kibbles. >> a piece of artwork belonging to george zimmerman has ignited a bizarre bidding war on e-bay. >> is he in jail? >> no. >> the guy has been arrest ad

lot. >> go 0 to the next story. >> people embraced george zimmerman as a champion of rights. anyway, the "cleveland plain dealer," the 2014 inductees to the rocknroll hall of fame, the honorees include kiss, nirvana, hall and oates, linda rondstat, cat stevens. mike you saw the eagles documentary. it's like 18 hours long. >> again last weekend. >> linda rondstat in the early days, holy cow. what a great voice, mika. a strong voice. a great presence on the stage. >> i liked cat stevens too. bruce string stein. e street band will receive an

award. the ceremony will be held in brooklyn, new york and haired on hbo. >> you know who almost got inducted to the rock and roll hall of fame, james van dehind. >> the president of politico, good morning. let's work through this story about governor chris christie and the george washington bridge which connects manhattan to the state of new jersey. democrats think they found an issue that could weaken governor christie's pros texts for 2016. >> democrats both at the local level and national level are trying to hit chris christie for this controversy about why several lanes were shut down on the gw bridge in september before the election and the allegation here is that christie's friends basically shut down three of the lanes as

retribution for a democratic mayor on the new jersey side who did not endorse chris christie. so you have lots of democrats talking about it. you have national democrats talking about it now. you have a senator here in washington who is asking more questions to make it a bigger deal. not clear this thing rises to the type of an issue that will hurt chris christie. in the long run it speaks to the fact that democrats see him as probably the biggest threat right now to a hillary clinton or whoever else might get the nomination for democrats so they are looking at everything. get used to it if i were chris christie. >> governor cuomo of new york came out in support of chris christie. they spoke. a couple of officials with the port authority of new jersey and new york resigned, one chris christie appointee, so something is going on here. >> yeah. it was not just like an appointee, a long time friend of chris christie and these obscure agencies that have a lot of clout at the local level there's a lot of mischief making.

it wouldn't be a shocker if there was. but the idea is this actually going to be something that resonates outside of new jersey and new york and outside of a couple of days of coverage. i doubt it. chris christie is going run for president. people want to go after him. >> is there any evidence whatsoever -- i mean what is the evidence? what's the e-mail? what's the phone call? what's the evidence that suggests that chris christie's cronies taking aim at fort lee's mayor. >> that's the chris christie position. right now democrats are claiming circumstantial evidence said listen this guy didn't endorse you, you just down three lanes, it had a huge effect on this mayor's community. >> why have these people stepped down? >> why have they stepped down? >> i don't know. i don't know exactly why the folks involved here stepped down. i don't think it's directly

related. that's cuomo's point that's directly related to the incident that want democrats are talking about here or jay rockefeller is looking into. >> interesting story. jim, thanks so much. >> take care. jooming up big game on monday night football that came down to the kicker, the incredible game that put the ravens in playoff position thanks to the right foot of that guy. more than 60 yards to win the game. we'll show you next. [ female announcer ] we give you relief from your cold symptoms.

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people are still waiting on dvr. >> i can't believe that. >> do you believe that? >> let's give them the ending for christmas right now. come on. >> first man on mars. >> yeah. >> i think they lost the plot. should have just -- >> they are taking a lot of heat. >> i know. >> it's kinds of like the last of "indiana jones." with bull whips and rocks to space ships.

i don't know. >> yes, kind of. >> yes, i did. >> i love the lioonlions. >> playoff implications in detroit, fourth quarter detroit down five, 2:30 to play. has the go ahead touchdown. two-point conversion fail. lions have a one-point lead. the ravens will get into field goal range. it was from 61 yards out. justin tucker from 61 nails it. that's his sixth field goal of the game. that gives baltimore a two-point lead. starved throws his third pick of the game ending detroit's chances. here's justin tucker after the game winning -- >> kick six field goals and win the game. i'm happy to do it. don't get me wrong. my fantasy team is benefiting

from it as well. so i'm happy about that and fantasy owners around the world i hope you guys appreciate the points as well. >> that's excellent. first the fantasy team. 61 yards incredible. the knicks one of the biggest disappointments in the nab. they are awful. they keep finding interesting ways to lose. last night at the garden up one with seconds to play. >> goes to the basket. lays it in. 6.9 remaining. knicks have a time-out remaining. decided not to call it. anthony takes his time. anthony puts it up. the knicks lose! >> are you kidding me? >> carmelo anthony? >> he's going -- >> mr. team? >> did they have a time-out? >> totally confusing. >> they had a time-out. >> that's not good basketball. melo decides he'll go the length

of the court. in the nba if you get the ball you have the ball at half-court. >> at least they made it hard to get lay-up for washington. >> the defense was tough. the defense was tough, fierce. >> could they look like they care any less. >> they are awful. >> the matador "d." hockey now. fans could be just as tough as players. washington lasting night a puck leaves the ice during the flyer's cap game. a player drilled in the face. players were worried about the woman. she's bleeding pretty badly. as for the game the caps got the win. here's the realory. patricia drummond stayed for the whole game. she stayed at the game. >> that's a hockey fan. >> said i'm not leaving. tweeted out this photo i took

five stitches for the team and they won. it's worth it. >> that's hard core. >> yes. >> how about that? >> that's great. finally not everyone in washington state was excited about the seahawks shut out win over the giants here in new york on sunday. jet chevrolet in the seattle area had promised to pay 12 people $35,000 each if the seahawks shut out the giants on sunday. think it's never going to happen. now they have to pay up because it was a shut out. >> oh, my gosh. >> how many of those people do you think were relatives of giants executives. the dealership took out insurance so it only cost them a fraction. eli through five interceptions. the giants were shut out for the first time in 18 years. >> is it like -- >> they got no running game. no line. >> he's still eli manning. >> you can't just blame eli for

this. >> in fact the -- >> you think about the giants, the nets, the knicks, it's pretty ugly moment. >> that's what robbie cano said. that's why he went to seattle. >> "wall street journal" put the numbers together and found for new york sports this is the worst time since 1966, based on combined records of all the teams. >> you're kidding. >> you won five world series in the -- >> that's brutal. >> here are the new yankees. >> up next a federal judge has ruled against the nsa phone surveillance program. michael hayden joins us next with the court's decision. we'll be right back with "morning joe". life's an adventure when you're with her.

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44 past the hour. live look tractor-trailer capitol hill in washington, d.c. here with us now from capitol hill, former nsa director and former cia director, retired general michael hayden. general, good to have you on board this morning. i'll read from the "new york times" to touch off the conversation, talks about the ruling, a powerful rebuke of mass surveillance and in part it sthas. the ruling by judge leon, who was nominated to the bench by president george w. bush on september 10, 2001 was remarkable for many reasons but mainly because there were real people sitting in open court challenging the government's lawyers over the program's constitutionality. though the ruling is limited, it is an enormous symbolic victory for opponents of the bulk-collection program and a

reminder of the importance of the adversarial process. for seven years these constitutional issues have been adjudicated under a cloak of secrecy. as judge leon put it. now that cloak has finally been lifted in a true court of law. general what's your thoughts on the ruling? >> first i would have preferred a stunning skborsment to a rebuke but it is what is it. true it's an adversarial process here in the d.c. circuit but i also think judge leon didn't have as much information in front of him as the 15 different fisa judges hat also ruled on this program and declared to it be constitutional. so we'll see how it plays out in the appellate process. i think there's a lot less here than meets the eye as the "new york times" and you point out. it's a limited ruling, applies only to the plaintiffs and that itself was stayed by judge leon. >> katty kay? >> i want to ask you one thing general hayden.

during this 68 page ruling judge leon said the government never presented an example in wish the collection of this data led to the prevention of an imminent attack or imminent threat against the united states. in this balance of security versus privacy what the judge is ruling is that the security benefits of this program did not justify the amount of collection of data and the invasion of privacy. >> that's a tough question for the court to rule on, katty. i really mean this. i mean no disrespect for the judge or judicial process. but the judge has expertise when it comes to rule of law and constitutional theory. the judge is not actually in a really good position to judge the efficacy of an intelligence collection program. that's where we might have an issue. look, i understand that in that balance what the program does for you has to play a role.

but, again, courts aren't well positioned to judge that. two political branches, the president and the conditioning will have to stand for re-election and live with the consequences of these kinds of decisions are actually better positioned to make that judgment. >> katty, you have a follow? >> obviously because this is a secret program it sometimes is hard to understand the efficacy and the american public doesn't know very much the. is it possible to have a forum where the government goes forward and says we can guarantee where there's instances the collection of data has toledo the stopping of an attack. >> another part of the ruling that troubled me more than what i just commented on, katty, is the metric that this only count if it stops imminent attack. i mean that's an important metric but not the only one when it comes to the efficacy of an intelligence program. this has become part of the fabric of american intelligence and holding to it that one

fairly narrowly defined standard actually kind of means if the only wins in the nfl that count are what you showed last night in detroit. the only wins you matter are ones you get on a field goal. that's not true when it comes to foreign intelligence. >> jeremy peters. >> general, reasonable people can disagree just how far congress should go in limiting the nsa's ability to collect this kind of data but one area where there is a lot of bipartisan agreement is on requiring greater disclosure. do you see any problem with the proposals out there right now that would require the nsa to disclose more about the type of intelligence it carries, and disclose exactly how often it has violated its own safe guards and scooped up too much information? >> it's a tough question but i come down on the side that we're going to have to have more transparency to sustain these

programs inside of our own political culture and, frankly, unfortunately right now, my old agency's transparency and been fairly transparent over the past few month, it's transparency is discounted because it's being transparent after it's been accused of something. i think for the continued success, the continuation of these programs the government and nsa are just going to have to be a bit more transparent not just with congress, where i think they actually have gotten pretty good marks but with the american people. >> general hayden, willie geist. good to see you this morning. putting the ruling aside for a moment what would you say as someone who has benton inside and the top of nsa to millions of americans over the last six months feel troubled whether they think it's illegal or not by the idea that their data is being swept up by the government? what do you say to them to put them at ease because a lot of people are bothered by this. >> the first thing i would say is those aren't alien bodies out

there at fort meade doing this program. authors americans. they are part of the same political culture that the rest, that other 300 million of us are part of. and they are very sensitive to government overreach and i bet you if you took a poll among the employees at the national security agency there's actions of the federal government that they feel uncomfortable too. i would ask the american people don't view them as them versus us. i would ask home to become knowledgeable about the specifics of the program, not the bumper stickers, not the headlines, the speeches of the program and then make their judgment. and, willie, i think i've heard with you this before. what the intelligence community want from the population and political process, they want the box. just tell us where the box s-we'll play hard and mean but we'll play inside the box. >> all right, general michael hayden, thank you so much. good to have you on the show again. coming up the year in pictures.

the co-founder of getting images will be here. a look back at the most iconic images of 2013. that's just ahead on "morning joe". ♪ [ male announcer ] if we could see energy... what would we see? ♪ the billions of gallons of fuel that get us to work. ♪ we'd see all the electricity flowing through the devices that connect us and teach us. ♪

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the west toronto church of god invited mayor ford to their church. he showed up and wound up on the altar singing with the choir. we have videotape, fortunately. he's the one on the right. [ laughter ] i call that move the i'm the only white person in a gospel choir shuffle. nobody really wants to be near him. the woman next to him not looking at him. almost has -- she's turned away from him. and after the service he, i guess -- he's great. he's beautiful. he did pose for pictures with the congregation after the service. the person that posted this picture tweeted and said the mayor smells like ganja.

>> former presidential adviser david axelrod joins us. also chuck todd. keep it right here on "morning keep it right here on "morning joe".

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priva ♪ >> in addition to all the promoting i've been doing for the movie i've been traveling with the vienna boy's choir.

♪ carols every where ♪ olden times ♪ and ancient times speaking of snowflakes, mika, the snow is beginning to swirl. wake your children up and bring them to the tv set, around the comcast commerce street. >> we'll be celebrating christmas here on "morning joe." are we doing it in our pajamas again? >> yes, we are. >> i can't wait. monday the 23rd. i think. we'll have a fire going. it will be so nice. please tune in. welcome back to "morning joe." >> can i ask a question? so have you kids -- you do the charlie brown christmas. >> yes. >> you show them rudolph yet this year? >> not yet.

i want to talk to you about the subtext of that. you don't have any young kids. katty, your its, after you gave your kids the vitamins did they watch "charlie brown christmas"? >> no. i've been remiss. maybe this year. if i could learn to say vitamins then i can do "the charlie brown christmas." >> don't try to change to please me. we don't want more american san diego. >> don't listen to a guy that doesn't use deodorant or soap. >> i needed the rope. >> don't you have a song? >> i have a husband who is a man city fan. >> it was a good weekend. >> my husband was very happy. >> that's right. >> there you go. all right. out on left field joining us

from chicago former senior adviser to president obama, director of the university chicago's institute of politics and msnbc contributor david axelrod. also in washington,s in news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of the daily rundown, chuck todd. thanks for all of you for being at the table this morning. let's get to news. the nation's biggest tech companies will sit down with president obama to discuss the nsa's practice of data collection. who's who of silicon valley, google, yahoo! and amoney others will be there. many of their companies collect user data as well. the meeting comes a day after a federal judge ruled against the nsa's bulk collecting of telephone meta data. calling the practice almost orwellian. he concluded keeping american's records of phone calls is a violation of right against

unreasonable search and seizure outlined in the fourth amendment. the nsa can keep gathering data right now while the department of justice appeals but the "new york times" editorial page is calling it a powerful rebuke of mass surveillance. >> chuck todd, is there going to be pressure on the capitol hill or the white house to re-examine the way snowden is being treated -- >> and viewed. >> -- if other federal courts follow the d.c. circuit. >> that's the second part of the story. now this is a race by the administration to come up to basically render this court decision moot and the way to do that is to essentially find a way to stop doing this, find a way to reform it, deal with the tech companies. when you look at this decision, the judge was also saying essentially nsa shouldn't have to do it this way. any more. that you don't need to do it this way any more and that there

are ways, you know i've never understood why they have to grab the data from the companies why can't the companies keep it and then the government gets it when they have to -- you know if there's cause. if there's some reason for them to go after. so i think -- look, i think the race now for the administration is to come up with a reform that makes it so that this court decision essentially they can abide by it where they say, you know what, he's right we've reformed the system so we're not doing this anyway. >> david axelrod, what's the impact of this ruling? >> i think chuck is right. obviously the president had this panel, they've reported back to him, he's working on a series of reforms that are meant to address all of these concerns. there are many of these concerns. i think it's important to put this in perspective, though, having served there for two years. i tend to the civil libertarian

side. i've seen instances where the ability to collect data really did thwart potentially catastrophic events and so, you know, i really wonder what this debate would be like if god forbid one of those events had happened or happened now and so, you know, the president's responsibility is to balance all of these interests and it's a difficult line to walk. so we'll see what he comes up with. but there's no doubt that he's poised to do something. >> david, after what you just said, what would the debate be like if the president could or would explain to the american people more about the elements of the program and what events were stopped or prevented from happening by the program itself? how would that change the debate? what are the odds of something like that occurring? >> well, i think that when he -- when he promulgates his reforms,

mike, when he brings his reforms forward he has to speak to the american people in some detail about these programs, about the necessity of these programs and about how they can be changed and altered and reformed to give people greater confidence that their own security -- their own privacy i should say is being protected. that's very important as part of this process. >> we'll move on to politics now. montana's former governor is one of the names floating around as a possible democratic candidate for president in 2016 and yesterday he took a direct one-two punch at the presumed front runner and the sitting president. in an interview with "the weekly standard" he said quote this. the question that we have is will it be the hilary that leads the progressives or is it the hilary that says i'm already going to win the democratic nomination and so i can shift hard right on day one. we can't afford any more hard right. we had eight years of george bush. now we've had five years of

obama. who, i would argue in many cases has been a corporatist. he has stopped short of saying he would run for president but said he's interested in the job. >> so, chuck todd, in the words of fantastic mr. fox and so it begins. >> i guess. i have to say, i've got whiplash from schweitzer on his decision not to run for the senate. i don't understand that decision. he never fully explained for why he didn't want to run for senate. >> what's the justification? >> the justification is he didn't don't in washington. >> that's a good one. >> except there was an infrastructure that was being built. they were 24 hours away from the announcement. he seemed to be gung ho about

it. the reason why bachus was scared to run he thought schweitzer would run against him. i'm trying to answer the question why did schweitzer pull the plug on that senate bid so quickly. now there's some sort of presidential bid. its interesting he's trying to establish liberal credentials. schweitzer being a progressive has not always been the case. he's a populist. there's a different between being a populist and a progressive. >> you have some experience with running an insurgent presidential candidate. do you think schweitzer is a plausible democratic candidate for 2016 and if he is what would you tell him to do to get his campaign going own make it

plausible if he wanted to give it a go this next time around? >> he, as you know, he's a very talented and entertaining guy. whether he's a plausible candidate or not is a big question. you know, he is anti-gun control, very strongly on the nra side of that issue. he has strong detractors in the environmental community because of the nature of his support for drilling and other aspects of the oil industry which is part of the economy in that part of the country. he does not have the perfect record to run an insurgent campaign from the left in a democratic party but, john, i would say a point he's making about hilary as she moves forward is an important point. i saw hilary in 2007.

not a good candidate. she got bad ad views. in 2008 i thought she was a great candidate after obama rocked her in the first, in the first caucus and it became a race. she got very close to the ground. spoke to the economic concerns of every day americans. i thought powerfully and really was very effective as a candidate. that hillary clinton would be very hard to beat in 2016. the other hillary clinton would be vulnerable and so the question is did she learn something from that last experience and this jab from schweitzer, while he don't think he represent as real threat to her does create an opportunity to reflect on that lesson and whether she's learned it. >> all right. we've got other political news to report as well. another sign this morning that former republican senator scott brown may be looking to get back into politics just a slight sign here. >> go the rhino quote. >> no. he found a buyer for his home in

massachusetts and plans to move to neighboring new hampshire. there's a lot of speculation that he could challenge jean shaheen. brown has made frequent stops to the granite state where he already owns a home. a conservative p.a.c. is running internet ads in new hampshire touting brown's credentials and he's scheduled to speak at a republican holiday party this thursday. he might not be welcomed with open arms by tlebs. gop state rep -- >> one of my favorites. >> told a local conservative blog that scott brown doesn't represent new hampshire with thinks rhino anti-gun policies. >> i love it. that's awesome. rhino. that's the political phrase. >> he's part of the federal assault weapons ban. >> yes. so is ronald reagan. anyway let's go to chuck todd. ronald reagan actually was the guy that made the difference and

passed that in 1994. so reagan rhino, exactly. chuck todd, scott brown -- can scott brown -- i asked mike barnacle this, can scott brown make the jump across state lines and be elected state senator? what's the last politician to do that? >> i can't think of any that successfully did it. bill brock who was a tennessee senator, got the nomination in maryland in '96. he was a senator in the early '80s in tennessee. identify been racking my brain to find a successful version of this. everything i've heard on the ground from what's going on in new hampshire is scott brown has not done his political homework in the state of new hampshire.

new hampshire republican party and massachusetts republican party while geographically, their headquarters might be within driving distance they couldn't be farther apardon whe -- apart ideologically. massachusetts is a more moderate party. new hampshire republicans -- new hampshire is an outlier when it comes to the conservative movement in the northeast. it always has had this history that i have no idea. if scott brown gets a semi-serious challenger i don't know how he gets out. if you look at the history of moderate republicans in new hampshire that had serious primary challenges they've not survived. here's another thing. if he wanted to be in the senate why did he run against ed markee?

to me it's the same thing as schweitzer, i would like a better explanation. >> let's move on the mitch mcconnell who in 2010 campaigned for rand paul's opponent in kentucky. now it's the minority leader who is facing a tough race there and a group supporting him hopes a new ad will help him in his re-election efforts. take a look. >> for mitch mcconnell and rand paul, fighting obamacare isn't about politics. it's a fight for the kentucky families who are losing their health coverage. mcconnell and paul are working together to stop obamacare, to stop the washington liberals who are forcing families out of plans that include the doctors they trust. mcconnell and paul say start over, repeal this bad law and cut costs, not choice. tell mitch mcconnell and rand paul keep working to replace obamacare. >> chuck? >> haven't a lot of people signed up there? >> look, i was surprised at the repeal message because i thought they were dropping the repeal message to throw that back in an

ad. i just heard mika say this. kentucky is an exchange that works pretty well, that has so far the. this could be a trickier message for him in a general but right now i don't think that's what that s.a.d. about. that's about the primary. >> david, as far as primary message goes, there's quite a bit of irony there. mitch mcconnell worked against rand paul in his primary but now he's trying to drag rand paul by his side to get through the primary. how does that ad work? >> first of all, this matter was settled long ago when mitch mcconnell chose one of rand paul's political guys to run his campaign. it's clear where he thinks the juice is in that state and he wants rand paul by his side. i agree. i think the repeal message is a loser for the republican party in the long run. you know, we've seen it in poll

after poll after poll. chuck is right. kentucky has a health care plan that's working better than most states. the governor there, steve bashir is aggressively promoting it. i that's problem. >> that's the message you want. >> no doubt. to me this ad is anning a knowledgement that mcconnell can't completely ignore the primary and he's trying to cover both flanks. this is a way of covering that flank. he wants to make a subtle shift as the general election approaches i think and talk not about repealing but replacing, refining, because a lot of people in that state are going to be benefiting from the affordable care act. >> still ahead, uk, george osborne says britain's long term economic plan is working. the chancellor joins the table when we come back but first

here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> snow is coming down in new york city. you can see it here at 30 rock also times square we're watching the snow. cold enough in new york city right here in the concrete jungle. as far as the airports go i'm not too concerned at the major airports. we already have some cancelations from newark and laguardia. not enough heavy snow to cause significant delays. a couple of hours here and there. as far as the snow goes, starting to move itself up into central new england. soon in hartford. providence about two hours. boston around 11 and noon. new york city on and off snow for the rest of the day. we'll see three to six inches around i-95 especially in the mountainous areas. philly and new york barely anything at all. new york one to two. boston about three to five. portland, maine more than anyone else maybe as much as six inches of snow.

drive carefully this morning in new england. warmth too. beautiful sunrise in wilmington, north carolina. "morning joe" will be right back. how are things with the new guy? all we do is go out to dinner. that's it? i mean, he picks up the tab every time, which is great...what? he's using you. he probably has a citi thankyou card and gets 2x the points at restaurants.

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on. 22 fast hour. here with us now british chancellor, george osborne. good to have you on the show. >> nice to be back. >> we showed a picture when we were over in london and your economy has flat lined. 0% growth. pretty miserable time for the people of britain. for you. but things have turned around a bit haven't they. >> that was a tough time but we stuck with the plan, we worked through the plan we had. and things are getting much better. the economy is growing. >> what's your growth rate over there

>> the way you did in the u.s. annualized the 3%. jobs have been created, around 60,000 a month which is equivalent to 300,000 in the u.s. the deficit is coming down. >> structural deficit. we don't think the job is done. there's a bigger question being asked here and u.s. and britain which is are we for a long term decline. are we unable to say to the next generation your lives will be better than your parents. i'm here to say emphatically no. >> you write in the "wall street journal" how britain returned to growth and in part you write this. as the u.s. and britain recover from the great recession, the question being asked of advanced economies like ours is this, do we now face secular stagnation and long term decline so it won't be possible to promise the next generation better lives than our own? having met with policymakers and

business leaders in the u.s. over the past few days my answer is an emphatic no. the way to avoid this fate is to acknowledge two premises about the american economy and then take the necessary actions to surmount our nation's economic problems. first we're not going to get richer by borrowing more from others in the world just so we can buy thing they make. second, our governments have to live within their means and not pile up deficits and debts that will burden future generations with the taxes to pay for them. >> so, britain, obviously, facing some of the same challenges not only the united states but most countries. >> sounds like someone i know. >> of course as an economic challenge, we're just talking about it in my press, about government living within its means and making sure you have a competitive economy. it's also a question of national am big. it's collectively, countries like the u.s., like britain --

we got the ambition to say you know what there's no reason why we shouldn't lead the world in science and education. i think it just needs to be an injection of optimism and hope and ambition and of readiness to take the difficult decisions that make those things possible. >> katty kay? >> there's been a lot of discussion here in america recently about the rising inequality in the country and the problems that that might cause long term on the economy. to what extent is that also a patent in the uk because while there is growth now in britain there are also concerns that for many brits household finances are still very weak. >> look, that's one of the issues, course, at the moment which is families want more income and my answer to that is government doesn't provide that income. the people who provide that income are companies that create great jobs, people who have the right education to have great

careers. we absolutely need to make sure in this country that and even in the united states that if you have a living standard plan, you have an economic plan to back it. you. unless your economy is improving the budgets of families is not going to improve. >> i think you're right in some ways the who would western world is over leveraged in that respect. one thing we learned in the financial crisis is that it seemed that great britain was dependent on financial services and the question moving forward is the economy diversified enough is there an effort to diversify the economy so it can compete in the next generation. >> britain has very strong financial services. london is a great financial center and we're going more and more in that space. >> but too much so? >> i think that's one of the great things we're good at and now a center, for example, of chinese trade. it can't be just that.

we have to be good at auto manufacturing, pharmaceuticals, life sciences, creative industries, increasing number of shows that air on stations like this are made in britain now. so, we got lots of strings to our bow. you don't want to be overly dependent on one industry, financial service, we need be strong across the board. >> we would like to be made in britain because if that's the case we would get out at noon. >> let's move there. >> can we move to london? >> you are very welcomed. >> we're welcomed there. that's unusual. mike barnacle. >> you said earlier terms of growth, growth in great britain, 60,000 new jobs, did you use that number? what kind of jobs are they? are these 60,000 jobs in industries that are going to be either growing, flourishing or perhaps disappearing in five or ten years time? what kind of jobs are these? >> at the moment jobs being

created across the economy, services. uk is a big service economy. look, the evidence is also things like tech taking off in the uk. we want new industries like shale which is big here in the u.s. to get going in tuck. so we obviously want to provide better careers for youngsters. but they got to have the skills as well. one of the things and i see this in the debates here in the u.s. you got to take on the best in education. it's not good enough to have kids coming out of these high schools who can't read or write or add up. these are -- this is the basic premise of society which we'll educate you so you can compete tip global race. >> chancellor george osborne. thank you so much. twoufl have you on the set. coming up on "morning joe,"

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32 past the hour. you know what today s-mike? >> what is it? >> it's your last chance to bid in over 80 once in a lifetime experiences offered by the rfk holiday auction. one of the items a chance to watch a live broad of "morning joe" right here at rockefeller center. it's actually fun when we have guests in. can you go rfkauction.com for more details. the proceeds go to the work to promote justice and human reits. logon. what's that? >> you can bid on that. breakfast with me after. oh, you're talking. >> there's dinner with heileman. >> a barnacle breakfast. coming up, 2013 is defined by iconic photos from the boston red sox to disaster in

philippines. the ceo of getting images jonathan klein joins us to look back at the year's most memorable pictures. plus he's a congressman and she's a blogger. the duffies very busy and not to mention they got six kids. what? they join us next to talk politic, immigration and yes reality tv. mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971. afghanistan in 2009.

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where does the united states get most of its energy?

is it africa? the middle east? canada? or the u.s.? the answer is... the u.s. ♪ most of america's energy comes from right here at home. take the energy quiz. energy lives here. >> so here with us now republican representative from wisconsin, congressman sean duffy and his wife national spokesperson for an organization

that promotes economic independence for hispanics. they have six kids. they are having another one. number seven on the way. >> at amazing. >> near amazing. >> barnacle called you amateurs. >> not any more. >> this is what you're going to be doing for the rest of your life. you drive around boston. you run into barnacle all the time. you spend a day with mike darncle in washington. you know what he does? he talks on the phone with his seven grown kids and grandchildren. that's your life only for the next 50 or 60 years. >> if you're in new york today with the snow in wisconsin that's all time. we're cooped up. >> we're in awe. >> we decided if there's a

deficit in hispanics there's an opportunity to grow. we're doing our part. >> yes, you are. >> constituency. >> the book, okay. tell me, give me some of the ten ways you -- it's ten steps? ten secrets. >> the book i wrote a few years ago. the whole premise is this is such a great time if you're ever going to be an at home mom, it's a choice and that because of technology and everything else you can kind of until keep your fingers in the pie and keep yourself -- really you have as much access to information as you guys have. >> right. >> so, that's what i've done. i've kept up my writing and able to try to balance a little bit of everything. i primarily work from home. >> it's an incredible job to be a mom. >> the best job in the world. >> there used to be choice. you can be engaged in work or be a stay-at-home mom or danielle

adams. there's great opportunities to be a stay-at-home mom, work during the day, pick up after school. work late at night on your laptop. so, yeah, there's a lot of opportunities. it's the best job in the world. >> i want you guys to tell the story of how you were met. you were a thoroughly modern media family. >> we did reality tv i was on mtv as real world boston she was on mtv as real world san francisco. they put seven strangers from all different walks of life and you get conflict and division because people are so different. we did a special. we met on tv. our meeting is on camera, we fell in love. >> the first moment we left is actually captured on camera. >> i'm going to cry. >> we're also the most fertile. >> oh, my god. >> thanks for bring that up. >> how long have you been

married? >> 15 years. >> one kid every two years. >> the fact that you could have a marriage and seven kids out of a real world meeting, tells us just how old we are. >> i'm devastated. >> like a year or two ago. >> let's go to your organization. tell bus. >> it's an organization that is devoted to helping hispanics achieve the american dream that they and their grandparents and parents came to america in search of and we believe the way to achieve it is through economic liberty, through limited government and through self-reliance. we're about empowering hispanics. we're on the ground. in a lot of ways we're mirroring and taking what progressive community organizations have done successfully which is embed themselves in communities and doing that all over the united states in key areas. >> the famous saying that generals are fighting the last

war. i applied that to the 2012 race because republicans got wiped out among hispanics. immediately people said okay, this is what republicans must do, let's put a hispanic senator up and we're just going talk about immigration, suggesting that's the only issue that matters to hispanics. the fact of the matter is that so many hispanics are entrepreneurs, or want to be entrepreneurs. >> they start businesses at twice the rate of the average american. they start businesses at twice at any rate. after the last election i think there was an impression that they were going to become part of this permanent liberal majority and the truth s-we see right now the demographic that soured the most is hispanics and also 55% of hispanics -- >> the poll last month showed that the president was upside down almost by a 2-1 margin with hispanics. >> that's right. they are persuadable.

if you look at the hispanic population 55% of them have vote forward a conservative or republican at one point in their lives. so they are up for grabs. >> it's either young voters or hispanics, i want to make sure i get that right. sean, some advice for you. >> it jumped by 21%. >> i got to do that or else i'm going to get killed. >> i think it was young voters. hispanics are 50%. >> they dropped from 70% approval down to 50%. >> we need to correct it in real-time. young voters it's a 2-1. >> sean, wherever you go, whatever you do, whenever you speak you just bring your wife. >> absolutely. >> you don't really need to do anything here today. >> far better looking than me. >> it's amazing. >> so, i want to ask you about a story that was in the "new york times" i think yesterday about republicans tempering their message. and the thing i actually liked

about the article it wasn't saying republicans are racing to the center, republicans are going to be mushy moderates, but it is about presentation. i always tell candidates all the time they dome me -- i said listen. i was pro life, pro gun and i went through all the social issues. i quietly went to activist, i said i'm with you, i'll go up to washington this, show you i vote whether you vote for me or not. but on this campaign i'll be talking about economic issues that are going to get independents and democrats voting for me too. is that all right? it was all tempering the message and it sounds like republicans are learning like we did after 1994 that the subsequent electionsing looked a lot different than the first one we ran. >> that's right. from my perspective, and i come from a very 50-50 district in central northern wisconsin. you have people on our side of the aisle that has abrasive tone. we can come across knuckle

dragging neanderthals on occasion. >> he comes on my show and talks about me. >> i'm a fiscal and social conservative but we have to take our message to where people are at. we have moms that can't pay the utility bill. dads can't pay the mortgage. how does it lift them out of the place that they are today and move them up the economic ladder. we don't do a good job of presenting that message. >> by the way, mika heard me say this a thousand times in speeches. so we're not just talking about this issue today. i said the problem with mitt romney he talked about 47% and voters got the impression he believed that. he even said it after he lost. people like reagan, thatcher, if you want to go way back, believed that, that less government and more freedom helps the 17-year-old latino in

south central l.a. starting work as much as a 65-year-old hedge funds worker in greenwich, probably more if you believe what we believe. a lot of people don't. we understand that. but if you really think it's about wall street -- >> part of that 47% comment was a lot of those people in the 47% they are people. people who lost a job. they are the ones who believe in economic freedom. they believe in the american dream. they want to move up the economic ladder. it left them out. i would agree even right now if you look what's happened with the president in his push for more government, more regulation, more rules it hasn't helped grow the economy. it's actually stagnated. if we go back to a more limited size and scope government we'll seibert economic growth and help nos in low those in lower economic bracketts. >> we didn't have that with

george bush. >> congressman sean duffy and rachel. i know you can go on and on. thank you so much. you guys are great. >> seriously. seven is enough. >> look at what seven kids have done to mike barnacle. he's really a 55-year-old man but looks 85. >> the name for you for number seven is this one. >> coming up an estimated 3 million people welcomed pope francis to brazil back in july. it's one of the year's most iconic images and we'll go through some of the others next on "morning joe."

here with us now, co-founder and ceo of getty images, jonathan hien, here with the iconic images of 2013, thomas roberts. i hate you. >> he's done it again. tell everybody what you brought us. >> from baltimore. burgers. >> a celebration of johns hopkins, my father's alma mater. these cookies will become your life in baltimore.

>> your very sad life. >> become your life as well as charles miller. >> i love them. >> jonathan, you have some great images but for barnicle and me, there's only one image. >> the great shot taken at the world series, there you go. steve morgan. torii hunter. >> awesome. >> you look at it, you'd think it was posed it's so perfect. >> yeah. >> it sort of summed up the postseason, even though there were many great moments in the postseason. it was david ortiz's postseason, of course, but that was just perfect. apparently the police are not as objective as they appear. >> stan is a two-time pulitzer prize winner for photography. and this is -- >> amazing shot. >> there's a lot going on. not easy to get shots like that. >> that was october 13th i believe it was. >> yeah. >> let's go back to april 21st. something that not only framed the season for boston but the year for the city of boston for

a lot of americans. >> absolutely. >> boston marathon bombing. >> yeah. well, really, it was an extraordinary moment and an extraordinary few days from a news perspective because of how it unrolled with the suspects and them being tracked down. i think the unexpected nature of it just took everybody by surprise. the most amazing photo, and i'm not sure we're showing it today, was at finish, the very elderly man who was knocked over at the finish. i think he was 78 years old. and he somehow got up and kept going. i ran a marathon recently, and i can't imagine what it felt like for everybody there never having -- you know, you dream about that finish line. you do that too? crazy behavior but -- >> these are amazing images that tell us where we're going, where we've been, the history, and iconic is the word for it. as we talked about in the spring, i know there are some from washington, d.c., and the supreme court coming back on doma and prop 8. >> yes.

what we find really interesting is most of the events we cover are very heavily covered and we don't have journaljournalists. we only have photojournalists. we're the only major photo organization where we allow the photographer to tell the picture. the most iconic shot are often the crowd, this unrivaled joy, the celebration of the crowd, taking pictures of the supreme court building is not particularly interesting. but the way people react tells a story. >> prop 8, that was the case and doma. >> there's nothing quite as powerful as a still photo. it's not tv. it doesn't move. it's not sky writing. doesn't disappear. a viewer, a reader can hold it in his or her hand and really feel the event. >> absolutely. >> moore, oklahoma, i mean, you know, you were down there during the -- right after the tornado. the pictures of devastation that are taken are just -- look.

>> that image on screen now, you don't really need any words. it absolutely says it. i don't like the cliche about pictures being worth a thousand words or whatever, but i think there is something about a still image which resonates. i think if we look back at some of the key events in our personal lives or around us, with whether it's sports, news, or entertainment, it's often captured in a still image. >> it allows you to stop and think. >> it does. >> you stop and really think about the gravity of the movement. catty kay is in washington and wants to jump in. >> i was wondering what your global images have been from the year. what were the big events, you know, that your photographers captured do you think that will stay with us from around the world. the philippines typhoon, for example. >> yes. the philippines typhoon absolutely. i think pope francis clearly a very major event, the first time

the pope had stepped town, now a new pope, first from latin america. i love the photo of him on the beach in copacabana with 2 million people. i think that was a very big event. of course, you know, presidential inauguration. people always think about that. but for me being south african clearly the last week has touched my heart. and even though -- >> there's a great image here of crowds at nelson mandela's burial site. >> and there was almost a panic last week of people trying to view the body and very -- that's the photo of them trying to get in to view the body. so i think that was a very big event. from a british perspective, andy murray breaking the 77-year itch. >> my goodness. that was something. >> that was something. >> let's also -- sometimes a moment gets captured by an alert

photographer that doesn't paint a thousand words but launches a thousand stupid stories. >> yes. >> barack obama's selfie. >> oh, boy. >> which you include in this list. >> yes. >> it's an iconic image probably for all the wrong reasons. much ado about nothing. but i think it's compelling, though. people around the world, the most powerful people in the world sometimes act like the rest of us. >> yeah. as you say -- >> you have nothing to say about this, do you. >> it's much ado about nothing. >> it is. >> i think if you work with photographers and politicians, there's always going to be a moment where there's that split second where they just wish they hadn't done it. >> right. >> and michelle wishes that she didn't have that expression at that moment because the second before or second after -- >> she did. the key word is that moment. >> that moment. i was talking about this last night with a friend, and you look at what they did. if i'm leader of the united

states and somebody next to me says will you take a selfie, i'm not going to go, no, i'm not going to. he reacted the way most -- >> politely. >> would react. then michelle is sitting over there and she's reacting like most spouses would react, thinking, are you kidding me? you're taking a selfie at a funeral? archie could just be sitting there. people make such a big deal about this stuff and there's just not a big deal to be made out of it. >> i like when she's mad, you know she's mad. she's not mad. >> what about being exhausted after 12 hours of -- >> exactly. "morning joe" will be right back. that was fantastic. my customers can shop around.

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and in washington we have catty kay and jeremy harrison. >> christmas all over his shirt. i love that. >> very nice. >> i'm just wondering, if this -- if what the nsa did last year, what the government's been doing for some time, violates the most sacred tenets of the constitution and as a judge said james madison would be deeply offended by what the federal government has done to pry into other peep's lives, does edward snowden then become a whistle-blower? because i don't know the definition of whistle-blower, but if somebody, if let's say this is held up to the united states supreme court, if somebody exposes something that would be deeply offensive to james madison and the framers of constitution, i think edward snowden has a point. >> i've always thought edward

snowden was a whistle-blower. he said from the beginning this is what he was trying to do. he wanted to expose the program so it could be challenged in an open court, which it had never been able to be done before is the nature of the program. it's now been challenged in open court. this is the first of a series of legal challenges. >> we'll get details in one second. >> but this is a case in with which a bush-appointed judge has issued a pretty harsh rebuke to the program and edward snowden at least for today stands pretty fairly vindicated in terms of what he did and said what he wanted to do. seems like he could take a victory lap, at least one temporarily. >> mika, let's get the details. >> a lot of arguments i've been hearing in the past few days he should have been man of the year given the impact he's had. the nation's biggest tech companies will sit down with president obama today to discuss the nsa's widespread practice of data collection. the white house meeting comes a day after the federal judge

ruled against the nsa's bulk collecting of telephone meta data calling the practice almost orr wellian. pete williams reports. >> it's a serious legal blow to one of the most controversial practices of the nsa, one secret program disclosed six months ago by edward snowden. the nsa gathered meta data, logs of every phone number dialed by u.s. phone customers and dumps it into an enormous database, so much data the nsa is building a huge new facility in utah to help store it all. the man in charge of the nsa, keith alexander, defends the collection and the secrecy. >> the purpose of these programs and the reason we use secrecy is not to hide it from the american people, not to hide it from you, but to hide it from those who walk among you who are trying to kill you. >> reporter: the nsa says it checks the database only when it has a terrorism lead tied to a specific phone number. but federal judge richard leon

called all that data gathering indiscriminate and arbitrary invasion of privacy. i am not convinced the nsa's database has ever truly served the purpose of rapidly identifying terrorists. he questioned the relevance of a 1979 supreme court ruling relied on by the government that said phone customers have no privacy in their calling records. the judge said that's been eclipsed by technology and what he called a cell phone centric lifestyle. >> it's ultimately going to be a decision for the court of appeals or the supreme court to decide anyway, so what this one judge decide today is just a conversation starter and not a conversation stopper. >> reporter: but it's a victory for a washington, d.c., lawyer who wanted to stop the government from collecting information about his calls. >> meta data is information which allows the government to be able to tell who you're associating with, whether it's your doctor, your lawyer, your accountant, whoever. it's extremely intimidating. >> reporter: as for edward snowden, the obama

administration rejected any idea he be given amnesty in return for ending the leaks. >> he should be returned to the united states as soon as possible where he will be accorded full due process and protection in our systems. >> wow. okay. willie? >> you know, catty kay, the interesting thing about this is it had only been argued in secret before, in a secret court with only one side arguing, that being the government. now this is first time it's kind of put out in the light of day. this is the first time we've heard a judge, a federal judge no less say, wait a minute, this violates the fourth amendment, it's unconstitutional. >> it's interesting. the white house all along has said they welcome the fact we're now having this conversation and they have now implemented a widespread review of their intelligence gathering practices. but of course we wouldn't be having this conversation at all were it not for what edward snowden has done. you have to credit him with starting this debate many the

country. the nast na's practices weren't actually stopped right now because of this legal victory during the appeal process, and the government is going to appeal this ruling. they can carry on with this surveillance program. i spoke to one legal expert last night from the intelligence community who said this has made life very much more difficult for the government. it's a winnable case. they can overturn this ruling. but they're going to have to fight it pretty hard. >> jeremy, let's talk about what's happening today at the white house, where you have really a who's who from the tech industry coming to talk about that and other things. what at this point can they discuss moving forward in terms of the nsa given the ruling? >> i think actually what you're going to see a lot of interesting dynamic movement on the nsa issue is on capitol hill, because this has been pushed to the side for quite a while now. you've had these fights over the budget, squabbles over changing the filibuster rules. the nsa stuff has always been bubbling underneath the surface. you have a number of competing bills. ron widen has one that would

require the nsa to disclose more about what type of data it collects and how many times it's violated its own internal security safeguards. so my guess is that comes up in a pretty big way at the beginning of next year. and you have on the house side as well similar sensenbrenner with his own bill. this is a bipartisan effort and i would expect that we're going to see a lot more. >> all right. there are some politics to discuss. one former governor brian schweitzer is one of the names floating around as a possible democratic candidate for president in 2016. yesterday he took a direct one-two punch at the presumed front-runner and the sitting president. ? an interview with the weekly standard, he said the question we have is will it be the hillary that leads the progressives or the hillary that says i'm already going to win the democratic nomination so i can shift hard right on day one. we can't afford any more hard right. we had eight years of george

bush. now we have five years of obama who i would argue in many cases has been a corporatist. schweitzer has stopped short of saying he would run for president, but he has said he is interest in the the job. >> john heilman, what's up here? what's he doing? >> he's a feisty fellow. >> checking it out. >> i think people will start to dip their toes in the water. he is a populist and a pretty full-throated one. it's the way in which -- if anybody could challenge hillary clinton in 2016 they'll do it from the left. he was a popular governor of montana, but the obvious point to make about him -- >> he didn't strike me as a left winger in montana. >> but he's got that streak of western, you know, populist -- it's a tonal thing as much as a policy thing for him. and, you know, but the thing is the obvious point to make is he, like many potential people who will dip their toes in the water, most americans, probably 95% of americans and 90% of

democrats couldn't pick him out of a lineup. compared to hillary clinton who absolutely everybody in the democratic party knows. it's a very tough thing to contemplate someone like him coming from where he is to taking her on. >> here's something kind of interesting. another sign this morning that former republican senator scott brown may be looking to get back into politics. he's found a buyer for his home in massachusetts and plans to move to neighboring new hampshire. >> it's nice in new hampshire. >> it's pretty. >> that's what most people do. most people move north in december. because you know what, it's so cold here. >> a retirement place. >> you want to get there to enjoy the january frost. >> exactly. >> the ice storms of february. the best time of year there. >> a lot of speculation he lost his massachusetts seat to elizabeth warren, could challenge new hampshire democratic senator jean shaheen. he's made frequent stops to the granite state where he already

owns a home. a conservative pac is running ads in new hampshire touting his credentials. and he's scheduled to speak at a republican holiday party there this thursday. but he might not be welcome with open arms by republicans there. gop state rep j.r. hold told a local conservative blog scott brown does not represent new hampshire with his, quote, rhino anti-gun policies. >> i like this. i would meet this guy. rhi rhino. >> brown supported a federal assault weapons ban while he was senator of massachusetts. hello. >> hey, mike, so you understand this area better than anybody. you want to -- well, you know, you do. >> neve having been arrested. >> like say if you took the jump from arnold to alabama running for office, that's different from pensacola, florida, to

alabama. so new hampshire and massachusetts, can this be done? >> his biggest hurdle would be a republican primary, i would think, in new hampshire, bauds of his position on guns. he is for registration. he made several strong statements after the newtown school massacre. >> he's for registration? >> yeah. he's a pro-choice -- he became a pro-choice republican run in massachusetts. so in a republican primary in new hampshire those would be huge hurdles for him. >> jeremy peters, you covered scott brown. what do you think? >> i think mike is exactly right. getting through a republican primary is going to be the hard part as with any of these republican candidates from georgia to new hampshire. and if he can do that, then he would probably be a pretty formidable competitor to jean shaheen.

but, you know, how exactly you get through a republican primary these days being anti-gun and pro-choice i don't know. >> all right. let's move on to this story. i have two others coming as well. totally different change of direction here. but vitamins. >> we love vitamins. >> i'm telling you seriously, vitamins and soap, anti-bacterial soaps. all ridiculous. unnecessary. we'll get to that. >> you have to take a shower. >> soap or soup. >> do you know how much money i've saved over my lifetime by not buying soap? and my water bills. >> right. >> you're doing fine. >> i'm doing great. shower once every couple weeks. >> it's fragrant over here but, you know -- >> but first -- >> you look good. >> i was about to say do you ever go to the doctor and notice they're trying to push certain

medicines? so katty, have you ever noticed that? have you ever noticed doctors are always like you should use this or let me e make a prescription for this? british based pharmaceutical company glaxosmithkline says it will stop paying doctors to promote its products. in addition, the drugmaker will no longer link the compensation of its sales reps to how many prescriptions are written by doctors. there has been widespread criticism that these practices are huge conflicts of interest. i don't know why it took, like, decades to figure that out. other companies should follow suit. it happens at the dentist, too. >> glaxo is actually under investigation for corruption practices in china at the moment, so i think they've got a bit of a pr problem and now they've come out with this, perhaps trying to get some of the messaging right. they say we're always trying to look at ways to make the distribution of medicines in america more efficient.

it's certainly true there is a conflict of interest between doctors who are speaking up on behalf of drug companies at conferences and things, trying to promote drugs people are taking. on the vitamins point, i completely agree. the number of vitamins that people are taking, i think it's a scam. you come away with 20 different types of vitamins. i bought one bottle of vitamins 20 years ago and never took one. >> i love it. >> are vitamins the same things as vitamins? >> it's early in the morning. you ear asking a lot. >> sorry. >> thank you, willie. thank you. >> benefits of taking a daily vitamin. the doctors say they could do more harm than good in some instances. as of 2011 -- >> you're such a polywog, joe. >> exactly. $30 billion industry. i have never understood, mika. >> just eat well. >> i have never understood why people shove vitamins down their

mouths. >> eat a vegetable. >> the physicians who wrote the opinion say in part the message is schism. most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death. th their use is not justified and they should be avoided. seriously. it's a total scam. i can't believe -- i mean, haven't you known this for 20 years? >> i have. you know what, though, can i bring up something -- >> i have. >> personal in my life? very personal. >> oh, no. it's going to involve private parts. i know it. >> i've been playing in bands for like a really long time, since i was 13. so i have horrible ringing in my ear. >> i know. >> what do you call it? >> tinnitus. >> horrible. what? see, i can't hear you. i hear voices too. >> voices. >> so, you know, i don't believe in vitamins, i don't believe in -- what's the thing that doctor prescribed me? supplement. >> right, right.

i don't remember. >> mel -- >> melatonin. >> yeah. >> okay. >> that's helping. >> okay. good. >> vitamins, i really wanted to get to -- >> listen to this. >> i've been listening. >> it's actually -- but i'm just saying very skeptical of vitamins, i still am, but supplements, which i've never taken, this is actually working pretty well. >> pro supplements, pro-am bee yen, pro vicodin. >> you want to stay with the ambien and the vicodin. >> i had to get off ambien. i did some weird things. okay. >> mika has some great ambien stories. >> that's a whole different show. >> it's like hammer of the gods. i mean, seriously. amazing. >> that's troubling. i've read that book. >> the brown shark story? >> my led zeppelin thing. >> it was a red snapper. >> going to have to move on. >> the shark story. >> so vitamins aren't the only

products coming under new scrutiny. this is another thing, i hate to sound like this but i've known this for 20 years. my friend l sylvisylvia, tom ro life, are on the same page. the fda wants makers of anti-bacterial soaps to prove they're safe and effective. the fda says there is no evidence they prevent the spread of infections. they also worry about certain chemicals that could trigger drug resistant bacteria that interfere with hormones that prevent childhood development. >> it doesn't exist in nature. we're putting a lot of it into the environment for no obvious benefit that's been well demonstrated. >> the american cleaning institute says there are numerous studies that show anti-bacterial soaps are safe and effective. my point is these people cleaning their hand, their house, and the commercials, everything is so clean. stop. just get over it and live your life. >> ocd. >> coming up on "morning joe,"

chris christie may be burning bridges with some voters ahead of a potential run for president. how the politics of a local traffic jam have triggered an investigation in washington, d.c. jim vandehei explains. first here's bill karins. >> watching this mini snowstorm moving through new england. beautiful shot from top of the rock. this is looking over central park. you can see the fresh coating of snow. so far about a quarter to a half inch in new york city. really hasn't been too bad on the morning commute so that's good. the airports. we've already had about 100 cancellations between laguardia and newark in anticipation of the snow. right now laguardia reporting an hour and a half delay. nothing too bad about there. we should see some of those delays moving up to boston late this afternoon. they do a great job at that airport with the snow removal. as far as other concerns go today, again, the snow will be on and off here. lit continue and stop on and off. the other delays should .a problem down to the south.

haven't seen any snow whatsoever from baltimore southwards into the d.c. area. so that's good too. as far as the forecast is going to go into the afternoon hours, that's when we will be seeing the heaviest snow translate further to the north. looks like boston and for you, if you're driving around boston, probably right around 4:00 to 5:00 will be the worst of it. nothing crazy. new york city 1 to 2 inches, boston about 4 to 5, and for new england just kind of a blink of a storm. you can even see the roads in times square, no problems at all. we'll keep you posted on the storm. you're watching "morning joe." [ male announcer ] at his current pace, bob will retire when he's 153, which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage.

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time now to take a look at the morning papers. "new york times," pope francis has already made news this year for changing the tone of the catholic church, and now he's making changes to some of those around him. yesterday the pope decided to remove american cardinal raymond burke from one of the vatican's key committees. cardinal burke is considered conservative and has been outspoken against abortion and same-sex marriage. he has been replaced by cardinal donald worrell on the committee which schlecks new bishops. >> a "morning joe" regular. >> viewed as a moderate and not one of is the so-called vatican insiders. fascinating. >> and "the wall street journal," a new study finds pets may actually help protect children against asthma and allergies. according to the university of

california, in san francisco, pets may change a child's response to the allergies for the better. scientists say exposing kids to pets at an early age allows them to develop more -- >> it's the same concept of anti-bacterial -- i'm telling you, just trying to rid our society of everything to the point we can't hold up to anything. >> i know. >> you have to have cats and dogs. new york "daily news" -- >> i want a cat. >> really if. >> i want to bring one into the show and -- >> have it on your shoulder. i like that. >> what would we call it? >> heilman? >> i don't have any comment on that. >> mr. kibbles or something? >> new york "daily news." a custom piece of artwork belonging to george zimmerman has ignited a bizarre bidding war on ebay. >> is he e? jail or not? >> no. no. >> is he out? >> i really don't want to -- >> he's been arrested a lot. >> i want to move past this story. go to the next story. >> a great champion of human rights.

>> i don't want to see his painting. >> anyway, the "cleveland plain dealer," the 2014 inductees to the rock and roll hall of fame from yesterday, include kiss, hall and oates, peter gabriel, nirvana, linda ronstadt, and cat stevens. that is a great class right there. mike, you saw the eagles documentary again? i've seen it -- it's like 18 hours long. >> watched it again last weekend. >> i see it all the time. linda ronstadt, man, in the early days, hoo ha. holy cow. what a great voice, mika. >> yeah. >> a strong voice. great presence on the stage. >> absolutely. i like cat stevens too. bruce springsteen, e street band will receive an award for musical excellence. the ceremony will be held in april at the barclays center in brooklyn, new york, and will be aired on hbo.

>> you know who almost got inducted? jim vandehei. willie. >> snubbed again. joining us with a look at the political playbook the president and ceo of politico capital, new york, mr. jim vandehei. good morning. >> how are you? >> doing good. this story about chris christie and the george washington bridge, which connects manhattan to the state of new jersey. democrats think they found an issue that could weaken governor christie's prospects for 2016. this has been a local story for a while now. walk us through why it has national implications. >> democrats at the local level and now at the national level trying to hit chris christie for this controversy about why several lanes were shut down on the gw bridge in september before the election. and the allegation here is that christie's friends, his cronies basically shut down three of the lanes as retribution for a democratic mayor on the new jersey side who did not endorse

chris christie. so you have lots of democrats talking about it, national democrats talking about it now. you have a senator here in washington who's asking more questions to make it a bigger deal. not clear that this thing rises to the type of issue that's actually going to really hurt chris christie appreciably in the long run. i do think it speaks to the fact that democrats see him as probably the biggest threat right now to a hillary clinton or whatever else might get the nomination for democrats. so they're looking at everything. i think i'd get used to it if i were chris christie. >> governor cuomo of new york yesterday came out in support of chris christie. they've spoke. a couple officials with the port authority of new jersey and new york resigned, chris christie appointees. so something's going on here. >> yeah. it was not just ayn point tee, a longtime friend of chris christie and a lot of these obscure agencies that have a lot of clout at the local level. there's off an lot of mischief making. it wouldn't be a shock to anyone if there was. but in the end, is this

something that's going to resonate outside of new jersey and new york and outside a couple of days of coverage, i doubt it. but, again, chris christie is going to run for president. people want to go after him. >> jim, is there any evidence whatsoever? i mean, what is the evidence? what's the e-mail, what's the phone call, what's the evidence that suggests that chris christie's cronies were taking aim at -- shut down the bridge? >> that would be the chris christie position. i think right now what democrats are clinging to is largely circumstantial evidence saying, listen, this guy didn't endorse you. you shut down these three lanes. the huge effect on this mayor's community. until there's something bigger than that, i don't see that being -- >> why have they stepped down? >> i don't know. i don't know exactly why the folks above here stepped down. i don't think it's directly related. i think it's cuomo's point it's not directly related to the incident democrats are talking about or that jay rockefeller is

looking into. >> politico's jim vandehei. thanks. up next, he grappled with some of the early decisions of nsa's surveillance of e-mails. alberto gonzales joins us with his take on where the program stand today. "morning joe" is back in a moment. and what would this pretty little girl like for christmas? i'm thinking the ford fusion... ho, ho, ho!....the what? i need a car that's stylish and fashionable... especially in my line of work. now do you have a little lemonade stand? guys, i'm in fashion! but i also need amazing tech too... like active park assist... it practically parks itself. and what color would you like? i'll have my assistant send you over some swatches... oh... get a fusion with 0% financing for 60 months, plus $500 ford credit holiday bonus cash during the ford dream big sales event. so i tri ed depend so i it really made the difference between a morning around the house

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joining us from nashville, tennessee, former attorney general roberto gonzales. first of all, what's your reaction to the nsa court ruling? >> i was surprised, quite honestly. i think the decision by judge leon is quite frankly is contrary to precedent and it's the kind of decision that i might expect from an appellate court, particularly the supreme court, but to say that conditions have changed. i mean, as a district court judge, i think your obligation is to follow precedent. i think the precedent is fairly clear. i'm not suggesting in the end he won't be vindicated by the supreme court if it decides to

take the case, but that's the kind of decision it seems to me the supreme court should be making, not a district court judge whose primary responsibility is to follow precedent in applying the law. >> mike barnicle. >> what precedent or precedents would those be that he should follow? the 1979 supreme court ruling? >> yes. the fact that these kinds of records -- there's no reason why expectation of privacy in these kinds of records so there's no fourth amendment constitutional issue. now, if congress believes there should be a statutory right of privacy, obviously they could pass the statute. then we get into a fight as to whether or not the authority under the constitution might trump that statutory prohibition by the congress. but, yes, if you look at the court case, it seems to me this decision by judge leon is contrary to those court decisions and will have to wait and see what an appellate court does. >> john heilman. >> mr. attorney general, you've said you think it's important for -- in terms of the continued viability of this program for the american people to see it as

a limited program. what the judge ruled in this case or said in his ruling was that he couldn't imagine any more indiscriminate or arbitrary invasion than the systemic and high-tech collection of personal data on virtually every single u.s. citizen. how do you feel about that particular part of his opinion and his ruling yesterday? do you think that's a fair assess osmt what he said about the program as it currently exists? >> i don't think it is a fair assessment, quite frankly. this is not a situation where you had the executive branch conducting this kind of collection without any kind of supervision or oversight. now, i do agree that we need to be careful about abuses and i do support the role of congress. i think we need to have strict oversight by the congress. i think we need to have more reporting to the congress by the nsa in terms of how these authorities are being used. i think we need to have a general counsel, the inspector general at nsa involved in looking to ensure that abuses are minimized.

and if it appears that the agency is incapable of exercising its authorities without abuse, then i think it is legitimate to look to see whether or not continued use of these programs makes sense because it's important to protect the privacy interests of americans, the constitutional rights of american citizens. i think we can do both. i think we can have this very important program and still protect constitutional interests of the american people. >> that's the question. how is it possible to do both? how? >> well, again, as i indicated some of the things that can be done and should continue to be done, which is of course have continuing oversight by congress. the other thing we need to keep in mind is, you know, we have all three branches of government that are involved in this process. we have e the executive branch, the department of justice, the lawyers have signed off on this, we have the congress that we have -- leaders of the senate and house intel committees who

have said publicly that these are very important programs and we need to continue these programs. and we have judges on the fisa court. we have to remember these judges on the fisa court are federal judges, just like judge leon. they took the same oath to protect the constitution just like judge leon. they have looked at this program and given authorization for the nsa to engage in these kind of activities subject to, of course, the oversight, the restrictions impoed by congress. >> sir, this is thomas roberts. it seems as if the american public has never been more engaged because of edward snowden at this point of what the nsa is doing and what it means to all of our liberties here in this country. so when you talk about congressional oversight and the conversations that need to be had between congress and the nsa or organizations that are trying to collect this meta data. at with what point do we need to draw the line? because just because the nsa can do this type of operation and pull all of our e-mails or know all of our telephone calls, how

they're placed, should they be able to do it? and are we operating now in a system of government where it's better to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission? >> well, as to whether or not this is good policy, that's a debate that occurs within congress every day. and this is the opportunity for the american people to speak out, to contact their members of congress and express their views. and congress will decide what is the best policy in the law ls that they pass. as we currently stand today, it appears to me that congress has made the decision that in fact the best policy is that we continue these programs because they're vitally important in protecting our country. now, having said that, it's important that these programs operate in a way that are subject to oversight by the congress and that we need, again -- as hard as we can, work to ensure we continue these programs because they're very important but to do so in a way

that can be reassuring to the american people that their rights are being protected. >> k action tty kay? >> mr. gonzales, it's interesting you stress these programs are very important. one thing judge leon said was the government does not cite a single case in which analysis of the nsa's bulk meta data collection actually stopped an imminent terrorist attack. in this balance of privacy versus security, should we be setting benchmarks for success and should the public have some indication of what those benchmarks are? >> i was surprised by that part of the ruling as well. i don't know whether or not the government failed tremendously in presenting its case, but, you know, you hear senator feinstein, for example, come out and talk publicly about how important these programs are in protecting our country. i think it is legitimate to ask whether or not these programs are effective because if, in fact, they're not being used to protect our country, why are we engaged in this kind of activity? i think it's a very important

question. that is a troubling aspect of the opinion written by judge leon. i don't know whether or not i can agree with that. obviously, i don't have access to the most current classified information, but that is a legitimate question to ask. >> former attorney general alberto gonzales, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up, how one major chain is prepping to handle all those procrastinators, joe. >> yes. that's me. this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one.

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people love the anchorman movie. it's getting a lot of attention and a lot of press. but also when you have something that's so popular all churly you'll get some critics. and anchorman movie is already getting a little pushback. it's kind of a surprise. take a look at this stuff right here. >> while the anchorman franchise is a comedic take on the world of action news, its portrayal of broadcast journalists is a disservice to the serious professionals who hold their positions in the highest regard. >> takes a tough man to make a tender forecast, nick. >> i guess that's right. >> that's [ bleep ] right. >> journalism -- on it. >> time now for business before the bell. brian shakman, the fed debegins its meeting today. >> two-day meeting. we'll see. could be bernanke's last news conference before he leaves that post. but there's a couple consumer-related stories i want to share. facebook, "wall street journal" reported they were going to

start doing video advertising in the news feed and then facebook came back and confirmed it's testing it. it won't have audio unless you click on it, but, again, people who use the service, it has a lot of ads. they have to make money. 66% spike in ad revenue in the last quarter. but it's going to annoy a lot of people and we'll see what happens. the other thing i wanted to point out, people are freaking out in the retail space. there's one less weekend between thanksgiving and christmas. >> oh, boy. you're hearing et every time you go out. >> so kohl's, they decided to go 100 straight hours up to christmas. toys "r" us i think saturday morning they're going to open up and stay open all the way till 9:00 p.m. on christmas eve trying to draw all the attention they can because especially in the stores, traffic, they're worried about that and less time. >> okay, brian. you always do it last minute. >> i do. >> on tomorrow's show, from the

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china has become just the third country to take a soft landing on the moon. beijing's newest spacecraft landed there today. >> today! in 2013. today. it's like the new york city marathon, you know how like every year around like hour eight, you think it's over then there's one inspirational guy in a cast who wouldn't give up and he makes it all the way, then he's followed by another guy in a [ bleep ] bear suit for some reason, nobody knows why. in the space race, that bear is china. >> that's pretty good. >> okay. the word's game is coming to america's cities from los angeles to chicago to new york city. the organization city soccer is building fields and keeping kids healthy in urban areas across the country. "morning joe" stopped by the new field that marie reed elementary in washington, d.c., to see their latest project.

♪ >> this is like a homecoming for us. this is our fifth soccer field we do in partnership between the embassy and manchester city. but for me to do this in d.c., the place where i went to school, the place where i live now, it has a special place in my heart. and the validation of that is look at all the kids, how much fun they're having. >> it really is a great uplift to the community itself. and i think it just is a statement of tremendous value for what this field means, what this community means, how this city working together with others is supporting our kids and our families. >> just look behind you. look at the energy. a great community gathering. soccer can bring people together. >> when we see our national team pushing a little bit further into the world cup, we see them competing with some world powers and i think we see attention towards that, we see a more diverse american population that

has an appreciation for an international game. >> i think across the country i'm seeing more interest in soccer. you see it in the numbers of kids. you see it in the quality of u.s. soccer programs today. and you also see it in the quality of the u.s. soccer national team today. so i think soccer is improving across all age brackets in the u.s. and that's why doing a field like this in adams morgan in d.c. means so much to us. >> our friend yousseff. great sport for kids. my dad always had us playing it when we were really little. it was very strategic and aggressive. >> would you wear, like, boots? >> yeah. >> kicking. just stay away. >> i was a good goalie. >> were you really? >> yep, yep, yep. threw myself right out there at the ball. never let it in. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today?

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to help secure retirements and protect financial futures. to help communities recover and rebuild. for companies going from garage to global. on the ground, in the air, even into space. we repaid every dollar america lent us. and gave america back a profit. we're here to keep our promises. to help you realize a better tomorrow. from the families of aig, happy holidays. what we learned today. mika? >> you don't take vitamins and you and barnicle don't use soap or deodorant. >> and in the words of paul mccartney, living the dream, when i die, what's wrong with

that i'd like to know? because here i go -- we're on tv. >> really. come on. >> we're live here. congratulations, by the way. hey, john, what have you learned today? >> billy baker, great young reporter with "the boston globe," incredible story that came to an collusion yesterday about a disadvantaged young vietnamese american kid up in boston, dorchester, who got into yale yesterday. >> oh my god. >> heartwarming story. >> a great story. >> barnicle? i learned there is very few things as powerful as a still picture. the best from 2013. >> i talked during the break and -- he steals mine. >> are you serious? >> i feel bad for you because you're older and you take mine. >> oh my god! that's awful. that is awful what you just said. a fellow bos tonian. >> awful but true. speaking the truth. >> what did you learn, joe?

>> who was the editor? >> tom winston. >> said? >> people like to read about people. true then and true today. >> absolutely. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around, though. chuck is next. who is chuck interviewing today? >> the 2007 st. louis cardinals. >> okay. the cardinals and elton john. straight ahead. >> what? >> yeah. your favorite do-nothing congress is doing something today with a budget deal getting over the finish line this morning. is there any hope for more action in 2014? we will set the agenda. also this morning, an economic forecast with alan greenspan. he says the biggest thing we have to fear is fear itself. plus, scott brown is moving from massachusetts to new hampshire. is it the first step in a move the try to get his old job back in the senate? good morning from washington. it's tuesday, december 17th, 2013.