tomorrow night. more of me and "up" this weekend. starting 8:00 a.m. eastern time. now time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. have a great night. congress has shaken up washington by passing a budget. president obama is shaking up the white house. >> congress is finally tired of running on empty. >> the senate set for a final vote. >> mean while, the white house. >> congress worked. that's good. >> they're happy something is just getting done. >> president obama is shake things up at the white house. >> the return of john podesta. >> a great asset to them. >> the job of white house counselor. >> setting up a progressive agenda. >> we can run on -- >> some times he can have a short fuse. >> does he owe an apology. he issued one quickly. >> they have a nickname for the angry podesta. >> skippy. >> the policies that will matter.

>> unapologetically -- >> the stakes couldn't be higher. >> they're releasing a report. >> we will have a readout of the meeting later today. >> 46 recommendations. >> on how the nsa collects intelligence data. >> an anti-surveillance security system. >> prevent the nsa from spying on you by blocking your laptop's camera. >> here is the prototype. okay. >> this high tech device is called a small piece of tape. ♪ today the united states senate did something that we thought maybe it had forgotten how to do. it passed a two-year budget deal. a bipartisan budget agreement created the old-fashioned way by the leaders of the senate and house budget committees. the new budget will replace some of the sequester cuts and avoid a government shutdown.

and president obama hired former clinton chief of staff, john podesta as counselor to the president to shake things up inside the white house. in effect, i was told, it represents the clearest sign to date of the administration's interest in shifting the paradigm of forceful, provocative application of white house power. they need to focus on executive action given. that they are facing a second term against a cult worthy of jonestown in charge of one of the houses of congress. he told me. podesta gave the quote to politico before hired by the white house. john podesta tweeted. in an old interview my -- got in front of my judgment. i apologize to speaker boehner

whom high have always respected. joining me now from "the washington post," and sam stein, unsuccessfully trying to muffle his chuckles. >> jonestown. >> the apology tweet is the way you begin your new tour of duty. >> that's right. take to the twitters. >> apparently this, it wasn't, this comment, it was in october. wasn't like a year ago or two years ago. not the best way tie to start the fresh time in the white house. starts in january. you have seen from the white house. from washington, the idea of wisemen who can come in, fix things up. change everything. we have seen this white house do this a couple time thousands. with rouse, daily, reorganizations that went on, after 2010. but it is hard to know how effective this will be with the big things that obama has to do. and has to see happen in 2014. namely, really making health

care work effectively, for folks, that botched, rollout. we have seen the poll numbers plummet. immigration reform. budget fights, sam has written about. and this deal looks pretty good. on the surface. if you look behind the details of it and the fights that are going to come in the house, not so good. >> yeah. >> sam, is this just a normal staffing cycle. people leave. people come in. or is this -- what everyone in washington wants to say the is. which is some kind of white house in trouble. second term. and, you know, talking about, we need a rescuer. >> it is both. john podesta was transition chief for the white house. there at the beginning. a well known operative. former chief of staff. not like it is some one outside of washington coming into rescue the administration. at the same time, hour, the administration is insular. they don't have a lot of new faces all the time.

and clearly they felt they needed a breath of fresh air. they brought some one new in. but, nia hit it on the head. which is -- how significant a move this is depend on how much you've think the institutional structures of politics are responsible for the gridlock. i don't personally think, house republicans are going to take their foot off the gas when it comes to health care because the john podesta was hired. not going to reverse horse because of the jonestown thing, real institutional hurdles to getting things done. having new people in there helps. there is people tired inside the white house. in the end, the same problems are going to be there with or without podesta. >> i was struck by the quote. people like john podesta, a lot in washington. and i would think, where john podesta was sitting. he had every right to assume at some point. this administration or the next. he was going to be back in. at some point. he would have to be confirmed? >> yeah. yeah. >> there are things you don't say.

phrases you just don't do. i mean, i think i have proven it. that i have no expectations. of going back in. [ both talking at once ] >> so. >> this one has, apparently, approached him, several times. about the, coming back in. and he kept reap fusing. but this time, he agreed to do it. only agreed to do it for a year. but this quote. >> the weird part. >> very controlled. >> he is. >> i talked to him around the time after one of the shows he was doing. he was talking how obama needed to bring boehner in to have conversations. wasn't talking boehner as a sadist, weird figure, leader of a cult. he was talking about the need to restart a dialogue. after the government shutdown. so there is a little bit of -- >> he had to do business with republicans in both bodies. senate and the house. >> that's right.

he had to deal with newt gingrich. able to steer clinton effectively through the whole impeachment, monica lewinsky, scandal. you would think he should know better. in this sort of day and age. >> maybe he didn't know that time. >> yeah. >> so sudden. >> the big news of the week. we are back to business as usual in the capital. >> smell it? smells good, right? >> passing little budget things that move the government forward in small ways. so of course, business as usual is criticized for being business as usual. the next place we may be able to have a real good fight is the debt ceiling. >> that's the thing. they basically have four weeks to hash out, this budget deal. i mean, sort of kick the can down the road a little bit. now the 12 committees in the house, are going to hash all this stuff out. all of these conversations going on in washington, now, republicans gloating, right? about not extending, unemployment benefits.

so, i don't think, you know, people are sort of patting themselves on the back for the deal. not sure that is -- >> debt ceiling thing is interesting. there was a point after the government shutdown. they placate the tea party members of the caucus. others were upset. and so consistently. republican leadership in both chambers of congress keep saying, the next fight. where we really get them. the next fight where we can really get obama care, repealed from the books. so there is always this promise. always this kicking of the can. i'm more interested in the fights that are to come. appropriations process is going to be fascinating. for the first time of in a long time. you are going to be spending more money. a lot of different agencies. a lot of government accounts that are dying for an infusion of cash. the government is not relieving full sequestration. it is fascinating to see of what the lobbying campaign is like.

>> that is in the budget process, the second component of what they have do after what they have done. a basic outline now. you get into individual committees saying this is how much we will raise. >> they all have different priorities up there. they all feel like their own pet projects and agencies were cut harsh by sequestration. they like to relieve some of that. put some money back into the coffers. you will have a difficult, delicate process. you have to go line by line through the government expenditures. this many weapons systems. this many don't. very tense. and this, right within the context of boehner trying to -- sort of remake his leadership. also, 2014. >> and to go back to podesta's jurisdiction, we are told about. look at the executive orders. what we can do without congress. what is there? difficult to understand.

there is such a legal, political dynamic. with gun control earlier this year. they did 23 executives actions. minor stuff about sharing information about different government agencies. that type of thing. what he is pressured to do right now. executive actions on climate change. for instance. the difficulty with it. >> an example of what -- >> regulating car been through the executive branch. difficulty in doing this -- soon as you do it. a legal challenge to it. whether the companies respect the executive order or wait to see the thing go through the court system is a real question mark. it might make the point moot. >> but progressives. podesta's arrival. >> immigration. they want, entity, deportations, a drastic drop. >> that you can clearly see that. that isn't a complicated executive order.

how much do we do? >> obama has sort of been. he hasn't been quick to want to do that. he got into that sort of, back and forth. >> tough on deportation. >> presumably for the political effect of saying look i have been tough in this category now. let's be reasonable. he assumed there would be a dividend, a republican kind of -- >> yeah, look how tough you have been. and you have had movement from boehner. he hired rebecca talent. a star in the issue. former chief of staffer, john mccain. pushed some early immigration bills in the senate. that mccain was behind. still all up to boehner. not clear podesta can do much. >> the confusing thing about the big scuttle bug about the podesta hire. what does it change? what can you do on the hill different? >> thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up. a new report by the white house

task force on the nsa recommend some big changes at the nsa. one of the authors of that report will join me in the last word exclusive. and in the spotlight tonight, chris christie's bridge maybe to nowhere. mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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sleep train's interest-free for 3 event ends sunday! ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ six months after edward snowden revealed it to the world a federal judge ruled the nsa program that sweeps up american's phone call records is likely unconstitutional. >> way to go, nutlid! thanks to you the terrorists know that nsa spying violates the constitution. and, by the way, who leaked that thing? i just hope the terrorists don't find the pressure map on the back.

the white house released a report that prepared by the president's review group on intelligence. the message is very clear. the message to the nsa is now coming from every branch of government from every corner of our nation. nsa, you have gone too far. >> that was democratic senator responding to a new report and the national security agency's surveillance programs. in the report, the five member committee, outlined 46

recommendations to address privacy concerns. one of their most significant recommendations ending the routine mass collection of phone data. and requiring an order from the foreign intelligence surveillance court in order to gain access to that information. joining me now, democratic strategist and former chief council for the house judiciary committee. joining me for an exclusive interview one of the co-authors of the nsa review. peter swire. a professor of law and ethics at georgia tech. served as chief counselor for privacy in the u.s. office of management and budget under president clinton and also served as a special assistant to president obama for economic policy. peter swire, first of all. your, you are appointed by president obama to do this review. and were your findings unanimous? >> our findings were unanimous. our report was unclassified.

what we released to day, what the five of us came to. >> as you worked through this -- would you say that, senator leahy's summary was -- effectively where you ended up. the nsa has gone too far? >> i say it is time to make some reform. we found much to admire in the nsa. technical capabilities are amazing. people are dedicated. we thing the way communications have changed we should have different governance and oversight for how the things work? >> what would you say -- are the most important changes? particularly in relation to the meta-data, the issue that has gotten the most attention? >> certainly has gotten a lot of attention. today if they decide, nsa analyst decide they want to look at somebody's phone record they make the decision within the nsa. we say one of the judges in the federal intelligence surveillance court should make the decision.

the other big change is -- today there is one big government database queried for that. we think that its not the right way to hold this data. going to the phone companies or private sector entity, a better way. better oversight to run this thing. >> what kind of change do you think that means in practical terms for people's concern about privacy. as of now, there are two entities we are aware of holding it. one is internet company. verizon is holding this data. then the nsa is holding a mirror of the data. this would eliminate the nsa holding the data. but a private come of pane would be holding the same data. >> one thing to recognize, is that the data we are talking about today is phone record. not internet records. there had been a program, president obama discontinued. your internet records. talking phone records. there is something different

about having for five years all american phone calls in one place. you are not sure what is happening. and companies keeping phone record. we say shouldn't be more than two years. a shorter time. different centralized database that wouldn't exist the same way as what you are trying to move towards. think it is pretty different. >> were you concerned on the committee with the concern the nsa has raised about, if they need to go to the pfizer court each time they want to search this data, they could be in what is their version of a hot pursuit and they may lose opportunities as a result of that? >> i think two things. one is a series of emergency powers where you get to do things in the first 48-72 hours. we even call for strengthening that in the certain case for nsa. the other difference, the number of times they're querying the database.

100 year. we get people and time and a judge. this is not something every few minutes. this is something we can manage. >> that is a really important point, what he just said. one of the reasons the committee believes they can go to a judge each time is because the nsa does it rarely. >> it is important for viewers to keep in mind. meta data its not con tent of telephone conversations. it is the telephone numbers -- identity of numbers, calls made to and from a suspected terrorist. the identity of the incoming and outgoing calls. allows the nsa to identify terror cells inside the united states. this report today, and the court's decision on monday as we discussed on monday, doesn't say that the collection of meta data its unconstitutional.

in fact what report is saying, there is value to the collection of meta data. too much data is kept on too many americans. therefore we are going to try to cabin the system. put reforms into the system. by as the peter said, requiring that the phone companies keep the data for certain amount of time. and then, requiring a court order, by the pfizer court. if the nsa wants to get in and do the second step of the process which is analysis of the data. we are not talking about the end of data, meta data as an important tool for the nsa. law enforcement all over the country, state and federal level uses it routinely. we are talking limits to protect, the u.s. average citizens under the constitution. >> peter, is it your sense, now with your experience having talked to people at the nsa and putting this together, that they would appreciate clarified

guidelines about exactly what they should be doing and how they should be doing it? it seems the way they're working now has to a certain extent evolved without so many formal procedural decisions having been made over the course two of presidencies. >> there has been an evolution over time. many programs came in after 9/11. the wiretaps people have criticize the. over three, four years there has been more compliance structure. the court chastised them and put in a series to respond to it. i think they would thing it is pretty clear already. part of what we are saying is that judges should have a bigger role. shouldn't be one big database of americans domestic phone calls. >> there are a couple points. there was an end, before the segment, the administrative subpoena, the fbi uses for national security letters.

ability of the fbi to get telephone record. hotel record. car rental record. the report recommend that those administrative subpoenas should require judicial supervision. that kind of limit surveillance, the nsa does abroad. unless there is the proper oversight. but i think the more important point here is the politics of this. i think unlike the bush administration who incidentally had a lot of these programs in operation without any court supervision, whatsoever, remember they went to john ashcroft's event to get authorization, ashcroft resigned over the fact they had no court supervision. the difference here, president obama and his team, i don't think are ideologues. this report, presidential commissioned report and decision on monday, there is a pathway

for the president and senate to find middle ground. keep tools the nsa has to have in place, to identify terror cells inside the united states you. have the proper balance with, secure it, privacy interests with having proper court supervision at the right intervals. i think the president will find the middle ground. what you will likely see is him doing it early in the year and going back to the court. remember the case out of the district court monday, now at the court of appeals. i think he goes into the justice department goes into the court off peels. ask that the case be dismissed because practices have been reformed. i think you will see the president with a sensible process to balance the two interests. >> peter swire, there have been many concerns raised about what the nsa could do in the way off abusing the data system selections they have.

did you find any instances of what you would consider serious abuse, or any kind of abuse of the systems, along the lines of what some of the critics imagine like -- you know, the nsa can go in and, you know find what psychiatrist i go to and that sort of thing? >> that's not what we found. that is encouraging. we did not uncover. we had classified briefings. want to fort mead. we did not find that. we found the nsa making big efforts to follow the law. recommendations are really about how do we take the law going forward. we have a different communication system than we used to. the nsa built tools and we have to govern that going forward as a democracy. >> i want to come back on the point before we go. the concerns about the nsa abusing these powers that they have would turn on the, basically the integrity of the

nsa. which is why i asked this. i want to get a sense of how much you were in a position to make an evaluation. whatever evaluation you could make about what you think is -- the integrity of the people who are operating these processes within the nsa and how much they respect the limitations that they should be imposed, should be imposed on them? >> my take, i saw a lot of integrity. evidence of integrity. part of what you do with checks and balances, you didn't plan for only the good times, but you plan for times that aren't so good. we are putting in checks and balances and that informs our report >> i don't think you should set up a system that is based on trusting people. safe guards are important to discuss. what i was trying to get at. given where we are. and the position that your committee had of being able to look at what you believe has

already been done. your assessment, being able to tell us what your assessment is, of the integrity level. an important thing to know at this point. doesn't mean weep should trust -- we should trust that level of integrity. >> thank you both very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up -- what a temporary bridge closure might do to a presidential candidacy. that's next. [ male announcer ] playing in the nfl is tough. ♪ doing it with a cold, just not going to happen. ♪ vicks dayquil powerful non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ no matter what city you're playing tomorrow... [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] ...you can't let a cold keep you up tonight. ♪ vicks nyquil powerful nighttime 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ powerful nighttime 6-symptom cold & flu relief.

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>> new jersey traffic is bad. right now it has a very serious traffic problem. >> a big day for the new jersey bridge story. >> chris christie for his political appointee cronies shut down part of the world's biggest bridge in order to punish an opponent. >> you really are not serious. >> and they closed the lanes to do a traffic study. >> there was a traffic study, yeah. >> the head of the agency, said he has heard nothing abut a traffic study. >> no, there was no traffic study. >> half-hour commutes taking four hours. >> wait, there is more. >> prompted two hand picked christie appointees to resign. >> there is more. >> the reason the scandal is exploding is simple.

>> the looks like this governor i thought had political moxie doesn't. >> no one can explain why christie's allies ordered the lanes closed if it wasn't for petty political payback. >> wait, there's more. >> joining me an msnbc, political analyst, and hunter walker. hunter walker, the george washington bridge is suddenly a national affair. you are great at covering local political action in new york. but here is what i do not get. some one has got to explain to me. okay. since when do you punish a political opponent by closing a traffic lane. who blames a local mayor in new jersey about traffic on the george washington bridge. >> fort lee is at the base of the bridge. when the lanes were shut there

was massive gridlock throughout the town for five entire days. >> oh, so, you punish the entire town of fort lee. you make life impossible there. because of this. >> yeah. and -- >> in just, to follow through the conspiracy theory. this traffic will be blamed on the mayor. >> we don't know christie himself order it. as one of the democrats involved in the investigation said to me. there is no other plausible explanation at this point. the mayor's initial statements were am i being punished for something. with a wink and nod. there is chatter around new jersey there was pressure on mayors to endorse christie. democratic mayors. he wanted a wipeout against buono. so wanted this impression he is bipartisan. it matters for his brand. he was pushing hard here.

>> i love the idea there is no other plausible explanation which seems to suggest this one is plausible. now we have got resignations involved. a lot of smoke feveloping here. >> often, in a situation like this. you might think some are hyperventilating. like, we are thinking, sopranos too much, nice bridge you have. pity if anything should happen to it. back traffic up into your pretty little town. two of the cronies, guys involved in making the decision to close the lanes, both have, have resigned. lawyered up. >> because they can't explain why they closed the lanes. >> one claimed a traffic study. the other port authority, said we don't know about any real traffic study. usually they take years to design, and implement, you don't

do a -- going to have a traffic study tomorrow. close those lanes. the whole thing, the bigger question here too is the amount of cronyism in the new jersey state government. doesn't surprise a lot of people. the port authority is a really big deal in terms of money and patronage. if he is putting high school buddies in this case, into the jobs. they're decide to use elbows to knock around the mayor of fort lee. that would hurt. >> if this is chris christie's idea of political warfare it is the stupidest possible schools he could have made. look at what the democratic national committee is doing with this. ♪ ♪ >> senator offered his resignation. i accepted it. this was nothing -- that i hadn't planned already. yeah, i still think it's a whole lot of hullabaloo.

three lanes. for one town is too much. you really think like i want to now go and, show me the traffic study so i can read it. you didn't stay there wasn't one. i think he wasn't aware of one. it is difficult to explain why you didn't do something when you didn't not do it on purpose. i don't feel blamed for this at all. because the pie had nothing to do with it. we'll see you all soon. have a good weekend. >> it is difficult to explain why you didn't do something, when you didn't not do it on purpose. >> okay. here is some more maybe fire in the smoke. last week "the wall street journal" reported that new jersey governor chris christie called new york governor andrew cuomo to complain that the

director of port authority was pressing to hard how to get off to the bottom of why the number of roads -- hunter walker, i got to say, the thing that its amazing here, it is such a stupid idea. if it is a politically motivated idea. breathtakingly stupid. breathtakingly stupid. but everything christie is doing makes it look like they were up to something. >> andrew cuomo was asked if he believed chris christie's, the traffic study story. he paused. if chris christie said it it must be true. one of those sort of, wonderful cuomo cohens. little bit of a riddle. >> david, quickly. what does this do to christie? >> nothing yet. e-mails come out, that showed he lied, knew about it. or cronies were having fun.

and, indicates who he surround himself into. it could turn into something negative. i fit was done for a study, good reason. they should be able to prove that. >> very quickly. thank you both for joining me. coming of in the "rewrite." rewriting the image of a two-time losing presidential candidatee. has you have never seen this before. >> later, i am joined to discuss president obama's refusal to attend the russian olympics. (vo) you are a business pro.

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for desks in malawi schools, made in malawi, delivered to malawi schools. for scholarships for girls in malawi. ruth tweeted. i donated last night in the name of five grand nieces and nephews. thank you for your efforts. mary wrote on facebook, to honor my brother's life also an educator, i donated what i could to the k.i.n.d. fund. he would be happy to know his life meant so much and would appreciate the generosity of others to the fund. finally, charlene wrote, i would look to see us get the number up to $12 million. so all of the kids can hatch desks and all girls can go to high school. i will post k.i.n.d. on my facebook page every day and hope it does the trick. you can donate at lastworddesks.msnbc.com. or call 1-800-4-unicef. the "rewrite" is next. there's a saying around here,

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a new documentary attempts to rewrite the image of mitt romney, the result is mitt whatever side you are on, see another side which debuts january 24th on netflix the work of greg whitley who spent six years tracking two losing romney presidential campaigns. ♪ >> i just can't believe you are going to lose. >> yeah, yep. >> what do you think you say in a concession speech? >> by the way, someone have a number for the president? >> i do. >> okay. >> i hadn't thought about that.

>> if you don't win, we'll still love you. ha-ha. the country may think of you as a laughingstock, and we will know the truth. and that's okay. >> it was a very different setting. any of the debates we held. a conversation among members of the family. these are all people competing for the same job. >> how in the world do we find this out on the day of the debate. >> he hates to disappoint. >> ouch. >> this may not end well. >> a poll said 43% of americans are not sure who you are. >> the flipping mormon. >> how did you feel on stage? >> i was dying. >> i would not want to do this again. it is too much. >> what happens to any body who loses a member of the party. a loser for life.

>> barack obama has changed our race, changed our prospects. >> much more effective debater than they are. >> oh! >> just getting beat up constantly. oh, mitt romney is a flip-flopper. this, a that. is this worth it. trying to convince people that dan quayle is smart. you are not going to convince them that dan quayle its smart. and you flip on everything. in which case i think i am a candidate. >> please welcome the next president and first lady -- [ cheers and applause ] >> a year ago, we would love you no matter how this thing turned out. >> now you are not so sure. >> now we are not so sure. [ male announcer ] they are a glowing example of what it means to be the best.

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next, i am joined to talk about the president's choice of billie jean king to lead the delegation to russia's olympic

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life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisinfo.com to get your complimentary q&a book, with information from experts on your condition. for the first time in a dozen years, a president, vice president or first lady will not be part of the u.s. delegation to the olympics. instead the white house announced the official group that will attend the winter olympics in russia will include two openly gay former athletes. billie jean king, two-time olympic hockey medalist, white

house secretary, jay carney said this about the delegates today. >> we are sending the message that the united states is a diverse place. and this delegation represents that diversity. not because of the issues on which we disagree with russia alone. but because of the remarkable accomplishments of every individual in the delegation. >> joining me lgbt rights advocate, and director of the milk foundation, stewart milk. a big question, how was the president in terms of his personal conduct, first going to respond to what we have seen in russia and in terms of the olympics and the big decision, does the president go. before you got to who does he send if he doesn't go? >> right. i mean a very strong message. a very potent message which is that we are not sending any senior member of the administration that russia has taken many steps backwards.

not just in the lgbt rights, freedom of the press. other marginalized groups. that is, i think, significant. and then it does have that second part about who he does send. >> to stay with the first part. there is the snowden component of the president's own decision, not to go, which surely must have been a factor. but then when you look at, here is who the president is deciding to send as part of an official delegation. what does that tell us? >> i think it send a huge message to not only the russian leadership but send a message to the people. the united states values diversity, the united states stands up for the evolution of equality. we don't respect going backwards. i do think -- billie jean king has guts and grace. she is going to go out there and going to be very graceful. but very forceful. you know if you talk about

someone who took on, rigs in 1981, to make a statement for women's equity. this is someone who has got it in her bones to go out there, make a statement. she is very graceful. i had the honor of being with her when she got the presidential medal of freedom. i was accepting on behalf of my uncle. she talked about how meaningful it was -- for the example of harvey milk to be out. of course, she followed really, a trend setting and record breaking being out. you know, just such an accomplished athlete. showing the best of athletic -- everything good about athleticism. it is a sport that values competition, regardless of who you are, who you love, what color is your skin. and really the ideals of, of

what the olympics is supposed to be about. so i really do think that it is very important. the interesting thing is that caitlin is a -- is from a different generation. so billy jean is going to be able to discuss what it was like, to actually be in an environment that a lot of russians are in today. where we don't value people being out. and caitlin talking about coming up where we have evolved as a country. i really do think there is an educational component to this that is very, very strong. the fact that they're leading these delegations send a message beyond russia. into india which recriminalized homosexuality. sends a message across the world. >> we forget in a situation, when one country becomes high profile. it is not a one country problem. >> very important. the propaganda law is in many countries. and we have 77 countries that

still criminalize being lgbt. so it is a very, very powerful message. i think we have two very articulate, very eloquent, and very forceful representation of what diversity means, and that tip is certainly include lgbt people. >> when the president makes the selections he knows they will be available for interviews in rush yeah. they're going to be asked questions about this. the issue will be very alive wherever they go. >> absolutely. i do think the president's team was brilliant in their selection. again i say that you really, you really would struggle to find some one better than billie jean king to lead this and to have -- a generational co-equal in caitlin. you know, this is some one who -- who is a hockey player. they both smash stereotypes, myths, lies. spread about lgbt people. still spread in russia.

eastern europe and dark corners of the world. >> what does this mean in terms of the issue of boycotting the olympics. i don't mean for athletes. i think we are past that question. but people have been talking about they're going to boycott. they won't go to russia. they won't go as spectators. they won't, in any way, you know -- encourage people to do that. how do you think this affects that? >> well, you know -- i like having dialogue. i like having opportunity for dialogue. boycotting does send a message. but unfortunately, in places where freedom of the press is under pressure. you know, there is, there is -- there is governments that can, that can taint that message. when you actually have people there, no one is going to put a zipper on billy jean king's mouth. she is going to be an eloquent, forceful influencer there. i understand the people who say boycott. i think dialogue.

changing hearts and minds is much more powerful. all of the places i have been, in the dark corners, that's the power. >> stewart milk gets tonight's last word. thank you, stewart. >> thank you. the scrooge party. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with this battle for christmas. on one side lies the scrooge party, not a cent more in minimum wage. it barks any more lip from you and you'll lose that low-paying job of yours. on the one side, since the scrooge party that wants to deny health care and cut off food