around 490 in rock years. >> most are shocked that he's even breathing. >> and joseph says if i'd known i'd have lived this long, would i have taken better care of himself. >> and laura says seems like brad pitt yesterday was a walk board ad seducie ining gina dav. you're welcome. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ if i look at my friends and former colleagues who are now in the senate, it was the women senators on both sides of the aisle who finally broke the fever over the government shutdown and the debt limit debate. they have been working across party lines. and we need more of that. >> i listen to you and i think you have to run. >> this is the way i talked to you 40 years ago.

this is what gets me up in the morning. i care so much about what will happen to this country because i'm a beneficiary of all the sacrifice that my parents' generation and generations before me, i sure don't want to be part of a generation that sees america's dream be depreciated when i don't think that is necessary. there is so much more we can do. good morning. it is thursday, december 19. welcome to "morning joe" live in washington this morning. with us onset, we have senior political editor and white house correspondent sam stein. "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. and political analyst michael steele. >> sam got us a gift here.

>> oh, i love that. >> happy holidays. >> very nice. thank you, sam. >> world series game six. okay. where else are our presents? >> joe and mika, you are a right wing nut job. happy holidays. that's what the jews say. thank you. >> very nice. >> so will you be offended if i accepted and you christmas card and it says merry christmas is th this? >> obviously. >> do i spellprerogative. >> isn't that the wrong network for this this discussion? >> we had a nice time in washington last night. >> mika is fighting the war on christmas right now. i thought you pushed back against the war on christmas the other day when is an in a santas

vomited on your shirt. that's what we all have to do in our own small way. cokie, welcome to the conversation. >> she has her grandson with you. we're big fans. >> he's a riot. >> it was fun. so hillary clinton, we just heard from her as we bumped into the show. there is more as she was named 2013's most fascinating person by barbara walters. in an interview last night, the former secretary of state was asked the question on every's mind. >> when will you, if you do, decide whether or not you're going to run for president? >> well, it's such a difficult decision. and it's one that i am not going to rush into. i don't think we should be looking at the next election. i think we should be looking at the work that we have today. >> i have to push for the answer about about whether or not you might run for president. >> i haven't made up my mind. i really have not.

i will look carefully at what i think i can do and make that decision sometime next year. >> does your husband want you to run? >> he is very respectful. he knows that this is -- >> he does want you to run. >> he wants me to do what i think is right. >> if you ran and you became president, what would that call your husband, first spouse? >> i have no idea. first mate. i don't know. >> do you think it's important that we have a female president? >> i do. i do think it's important. i don't know the exact timing of it or who that might be. it matters because we have half the population that has given so much to building this country, to make it work. and of course i want to see a woman in the white house. >> so it begins with hillary. >> this is so cokie, you're a woman? >> yes, that was it.

>> no, it has nothing to do with that. it has more to do with the fact that we see this every four years and you've seen it for quite a while along with me. and the talk has begun. but it is way too premature. >> it is way too premature. every time we do this, we get ourselves into some box where we say so-and-so's looking to be the nominee, so-and-so will -- then it turns out to be somebody else all together. obviously she is the frontrunner. and she's the person to beat if in fact she runs. but i don't think that we know and i frankly don't think she knows. i don't think she's made up her mind. >> one thing that she said that is just blatantly false is that her husband wants her to do what she wants her to do. that's not true. bill wants her to run. >> i think he wants her to run. >> she's certainly done things in the past six months that would lead you to believe she's

preparing. >> it would be silly not to do that. >> i guess you're right. >> i mean, she certainly hasn't ruled it out. so if you don't rule it out, then you do things to prepare. >> you have to prepare. >> moving on now, one of the closest races in virginia history is now decided and it gives democrats a clean sweep across the state. the republican conceded the race for attorney general yesterday to mark herring. initially just 165 votes separated the two. the vote represents and ongoing tilt to the left in virginia and rebuke to the more conservative candidates on the ballot. it's the first time since 1969 that the top five statewide races were all held by a democrat in the state of virginia. >> michael steele, liberals will like me saying this, virginia is not tilting left. their candidates this year

jumped off the cliff on the right. ken cuccinelli was the most moderate of the people on the ticket here. if there is one -- if there is exhibit one of the excesses of the republican party, it is what happened in the state of virginia and this shows you what happens when you're more interested in having everybody in the blogosphere say you're pure as driven snow than actually being focused on winning elections. >> you're right. and the party both in the state of virginia and nationally seemed to forget is, yeah, there are demographics shifts that have taken place in northern virginia that are starting to drive some of the trend lines. but virginia is still a very strong purple state. it's not this shift to the left. number one. number two, if you ted an open primary process, lieutenant governor probably would win and more than likely be the incoming governor this year to your very point because virginia at its

core still has those roots that the republican party could hold on to. >> but it's their process is the problem. >> the primary process that allows you to, oh, we don't want to do a primary, let's do a convention where you have 12,000 people making the decision. >> at most. >> do you know -- virginia is so left wing on the day terry mcauliffe was elected governor, bob mcdonnell had a higher an approval rating not only than terry mcauliffe, but also barack obama. >> the place to test its purpleness will be in the congressional seat. >> yes, exactly, the swing district in an area north of washington has just opened up. democrats are looking for that as their waterloo of sorts as we go into 2014. the interesting thing about virginia, though, is there has been a shift in the suburbs to

the left. it's become -- suburbs around washington. it's become more hispanic, increasing minority population. and in that sense virginia has drifted away from the rest of the south. traditionally you you look at the old confederacy, these are states that used to be highly democratic that are now deeply republican. virginia and florida have broken from that trend and the new solid south has really emerged. >> all i'll say is 2009, they had a guy running named bob mcdonnell who actually focused on jobs instead of all these -- instead of pitching i'd logic tantrums. he was moderate temperamentally and won by over 20 percentage points. >> all the while this stuff was happening on the to which of the "washington post," the huge federal investigation looming. and yet you're right, he had an amazing -- relatively amazing high approval rating which was remarkable. >> a year after barack obama was elected. >> i think you are right, there are demographic changes here

that can't be discounted. but i also think that the national republican party hurt the virginia republican party this go round. the timing of the shutdown was crippling for their chances because so many jobs in that state are dependent on frl contracts. and when you had a shutdown that lasted three weeks in the lead up to the election, it just was not a good formula. >> and ken kuch thcuccinelli sa himself. >> it wasn't his fault. >> well, he could have -- >> so surprise to go have a guy say that. >> cuccinelli had a choice, he could have done what the tea party members were doing right after the election which was those establishment republicans, they kept money out of the state, they didn't trust in a fellow tea part krer. and instead he chose to actually go after ted cruz and say the the guy cost me my governorship. >> jeremy said something interesting about virginia pulling away from the rest of the south. the truth is that those demographic changes are taking place throughout the south. and virginia is just -- georgia

is the next state up, right. virginia is just the harbinger. and it really is going to be very interesting to see what happens over the next couple decades throughout the south. because we really are seeing a very big change. takes a while to really evidence itself. >> well, staying in virginia, sam, you touched on it, justice department officials are delaying charges against governor bob mcdonnell and his wife. last week prosecutors told the couple they would be charged in connection with a gift scandal that has plagued the end of his term in office. but his attorneys made an in person appeal questioning the legitimacy of the prosecution's key witness. they also requested the prosecutors wait until mcdonnell is out of office to ensure a smooth transition to governor elect terry mcauliffe. the decision to press charges is not expected before january 12, b 2, but could come as late as february. >> what bob mcdonnell did was stupid.but could come as late a

february. >> what bob mcdonnell did was stupid. unbecoming. there is a long history of people doing the exact same thing. but i still am trying to figure out why if what he did did not violate virginia law, why the feds are getting involved in this. and you look specifically at the fact that, you know, as reports show, that this company in question got no grants from the state. got no contracts from the state. nobody was appointed to any board. this reminds me of what happened post-abramoff when the bush administration went went crazy. and i have friends on capitol hill, staffers on capitol hill, that were krag edragged through the mud for seven years. their lives destroyed. lives destroyed. just because some prosecutor decided they were going to make a point and it was going to be good government and their lives were wrecked only to be told at the end we don't have anything

on you. >> look what the justice department did to ted stevens. >> ted stevens is the perfect example. ted stevens had to die for people to go back to, oh, wait a second, we were overzealous. i will give eric holder credit on this. he went back and some of the excesses and some of the abuses of the bush justice department, some of the overreaching, he took care of some of them. and some of my friends were told, hey, we're sorry. we apologize. move on. in this case with bob mcdonnell, this -- they're going out of their way to try to grab headlines and i'm glad that the justice department delayed it and i hope eric holder lets this go by. bob mcdonnell has paid his price. >> he's paid his price. and the thing about this is that this is really a state statute sdsh driv statute-driven offense. and the state statute actually kind of allows for this will to happen. >> it does allow to happen. >> which is the mistake.

someone should change the law. because it is totally unseemly. >> and i would never do it. i'm sure your family would have never done it. i think this is totally unseemly. but to have the federal government prosecute a man and his wife for following basically what the virginia state law allows? i think is outrageous. >> i will say that i'm confused about the distinguishment between the fed and the state authorities and i grant you that. i think there is a law for the prosecutors to play. i know no grants were awarded, but he can set up meetings with state officials with this executive. i'm fine with people facilitating business, but i think there is a line that you have to be careful about seeing crossed. when you give do i natinationse you getting something in return. >> but there is not the a federal role there with the state. when the state law clearly allow there is to happen. >> and it was not just

donations. it was great big presents to the family. basically paying for the daughter's wedding. >> which by the way is shocking for those of us who live outside of virginia that that is allowed to happen. >> but that's the statute. >> you can basically give anything to anyone. >> interesting state laws is where they're going after him. don't to get the supreme court took away one of the federal government's biggest tools in prosecuting public officials when theyen valid the i don't understand of services act which allowed federal prosecutors to go after politicians who were accused of denying the public of honest services. >> a couple more stories forget the to here. i want to get to the nsa story. americans without health coverage, this is interesting, appear to be more reticent than the white house originally thought. a poll found 53% of those without coverage disapprove of the health care law. that's slightly higher than the

51% who have insurance. >> look at those numbers. >> well that's a tie. >> that's a tie, but still, why are the uninsured as skeptical as the insured and isn't that a realcare is a political problem period, full stop. and you can go through the people aren't educated on it and that is true. and that the rollout was terrible and that is rue. but until there is something that comes out that makes people think, gee, this is something i really need and i want to do this, that's what you're going to see. >> it isn't popular to tell someone who doesn't own something that you have to buy it or face a penalty. people won't find that to be a popular proposition. the idea behind crafting the law is that once they get the product, experience the product, they will grow to like the product. i don't know if that is going to

happen, but it will take some time. >> i'm sorry, the idea that -- you couldn't get the website to work? next year you get patients and what happens then. that's what those numbers are saying. >> it isn't administering the health care itself. >> we'll see. >> it will turn around, i'm sure of it. it may be a political stopper, but i'll tell that you no one else could do it. i know what you're all thinking, but it's an impossible feat to try to get health care going in this country. it's just impobl. and they're doing it. the poll also finds that the uninsured have mixed feelings about the benefits of obamacare. 33% say the law will help them, 37% say it will hurt them. but 56% of uninsured americans say they are unlikely to get coverage before the march 31 dead line. yesterday senator john mccain provided his own alternative to obamacare suggesting congress repeal the president's law in

favor p his own set of reforms. but majority leader harry reid tells the hill he believes obamacare will be a, quote, net positive for democrats running for office in 2014 saying the website has gotten significantly better since of course the disastrous launch. anything is better than that. on nsa, a task force appointed by president obama is now recommending big changes to how the nsa does business. among the recommendations, the government would have to request access for data stored by phone and internet companies. there would be no blanket court orders for personal information. another recommendation aims to put the ns after the under civilian control, something the white house has already rejected. the task force also found that bulk collection of telephone records is not essential to preventing terror attacks. senator rand paul is calling on the director of national intelligence to resign over testimony he gave before the

senate. >> clap are's line to congress is probably more in-injurious to our intelligent capabilities than anything snowden did because clapper has damaged the credibility of the entire intelligence apparatus and i'm not sure what to believe any who are when they come to congress. and i do think what our government is doing is unconstitutional. and i really think that in order to restore confidence in our intelligence community, i think james clapper should resign. >> let's bring in nbc news national security analyst and former director of the national counterterrorism center, michael lighter. >> first on rand paul's comments regarding mr. clapper. >> well, i think what jim clapper said was very unfortunate. and senator paul can call for his resignation. i think what is clear is although a lot of these programs were surprising to the american people, there is a really, really long and strong record of congress and the intelligence community being fully brief

order these programs. so there is revisionist history up on the hill. >> i'm shocked. the briefings in 2002, you had people who five years later were shock shocked, shocked. can't we do more? and then shocked four or five years later. this is happening with nsa. >> and i think rand paul probably is shocked because he wasn't there. >> they weren't briefing him in kentucky, right? >> but i think that the truth is that all the pressure was the other way. was connect the dots, learn everything there is to learn. what are you doing sleeping on the job? how could this possibly happen. >> the 1% solution. there is a 1% chance -- >> don't go for it. >> exactly. so michael, what do you think

the recommendations? do they go too far? >> it's not that bad. the recommendation about moving the phone records to the phone compani companies, that's a good thing. my concern would be in combination all of them adopted, i think that is going to slow things down some. and slowing things down some is not all bad, but i'm afraid that we're moving towards a lot of risk diversion on the intelligence community side. and in combination again, you've got a lot more oversight. and there already is a lot of oversight, but this is now more involvement by the fisa court, more omb, so i'm not going to say that this is now going to make us vulnerable and there will be another 9/11. i think that's way too much. but i think this is going to slow things down and that's probably not good. >> jeremy peters here. i find it interesting that you said that moving this over to the phone companies and privatizing a lot of it will make it actually easier for the

government. because the people i'm talking to who are seeking reform on capitol hill will say that that's basically a veneer, it makes it less constitutionally problematic for the government to be involved in this, but that it's not actually a true reform that protects due process. >> well, first of all, this report is really the first of what will be and ongoing conversation. the white house will adopt some of it, not all of this. we'll certainly have legislation on the hill about the phone records. i think actually moving to the phone companies immediately is going to be hard technologically. but i tend to agree, it's not that massive of a change in the program. so people were saying they recommended stopping everything now. i think that's really a misreading of this recommendation. >> michael leiter, thanks so much. >> thanks, guys. coming up, senators john thune and saxby chambliss join us here in washington. also chuck todd.

plus mike leibovich with his cover story on senator john mccain. up next, the top stories in the politico play book. but first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> hi karin, what's snup. >> definitely could not marry a girl name karen. a wild ride we'll go on. from spring to summer back for winter and then an arctic blast. yesterday record high temperatures. denver was 68, beautiful. we were 70 in dallas. only cool spots were up there in the great lakes. so this morning we have a new cold blast coming down. but this time it's only going to be up there in the northern plains. the warm air will win out. and it's heading for the east coast. washington, d.c., you won't know what do with yourselves on saturday and sunday. temperatures 64 saturday, sunday could be record highs near 74 degrees followed by rain maybe even thunderstorms as we welcome

in winter. so as far as the forecast for today, not a lot of travel trouble. the worst is salt lake city, freezing rain followed by a couple inches of snow. that will then move out to the central plains. as far as minneapolis, if you want to know where it will be cold, that's it. the travel trouble spot this weekend, chicago. you're right in the middle of the warm and cold air. freezing rain followed by snow. so if you have plans through o'hare, that could be problematic this yup comi upcom weekend. [ male announcer ] the new new york is open. open to innovation. open to ambition. open to bold ideas. that's why new york has a new plan --

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♪ 4 lightning bolts ♪ 3 creepy gnomes ♪ 2 angry geese ♪ and a giant blow-up snowman ♪ that kind of freaks me out [ beep ] [ female announcer ] no one delivers the holidays like the u.s. postal service. priority mail flat rate is more reliable than ever. and with improved tracking up to 11 scans, you can even watch us get it there. and look for our limited edition holiday stamps.

let's take a look at the morning papers.

we'll start with the globe. pope francis' appeal is reaching the masses. more than 2 million people flocked to pope francis' events in st. peter's square since his election in march. that's four times the number pope benedict drew in all of 2012. his populous message has refreshed appeal for the church which that seen its numbers waning. >> unbelievable. >> he's a superstar. >> and for a lot of good reasons. kissing this baby and then the baby knocked his hat off. >> i thought john paul ii was an aberration for the catholic church. they hahave done a pretty darn good job in picking two out of three popes that -- >> this one most reminds you of john xxiii who he has decided to make a saint just all on his own along with john paul. so it's going to be quite a day

in april when the two of them are canonized together. >> unbelievable. from the "chicago tribune," target customers beware, your credit card information is at risk after a major security breach. the theft started on thanksgiving weekend and may have continued until december 15. investigators believe thieves installed software on credit card machines and it's not clear how many customers were affected. l.a. time, one of the stars of the hit show duck dynasty has been suspended from the show. me comments on the bible and what he describes as sin becoming mainstream in american society. he says in part, quote, start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. do i have to read this? >> bestiality, sleeping around

with this woman and that woman and those men. there is more that we can't say on morning television a and e says his views don't reflect the network. good news this morning for the blind man and his loyal guide dog who survived being run over by a train. cecil williams was set to part with his dog next month because of his age. williams can't afford to keep orlando as a pet, but multiple donors have stepped in to covered orlando's expenses. he had this to say. >> i want to say thank you for everybody showing the humanity and peace and good will at this time. orlando is my best buddy. he's my pal. and all the people that contributed or donated, i think that we should take our hat off to them. there are still good people in

this world. >> let's go to the telegraph. single $140 raffle ticket won one lucky gambler a picasso painting worth more than a million dollars. so sotheby's purchased to use in a raffle and sold 50,000 tickets raising $5 million. a 25-year-old art lover from pennsylvania was the lucky winner. he vows not to sell the painting for now. and the atlanta journal constitution, georgia woman hit the mega millions jackpot making her single largest winner. she will split the jackpot with me -- i hope. she used family birthdays to pick the winning numbers. with us now, jim, what is this about pajama boy or pajama --

>> let me help explain. the white house's attempts to make obamacare a talking point over the holidays spilled into twitter introducing the world to pajama boy. the white house asks how do you plan to spend the cold days of december and included this image featuring a model wearing pajamas, it reads wear pajamas, drink hot chocolate, talk about getting health insurance. #get talking. >> wow. that will get -- >> politico calls pajama boy a, quote, insufferable manchild saying perhaps the goal was to create a readily mockable image to draw attention to its message in which case pajama boy was brilliant and successful troll?

>> my god, this guy -- >> good lord. >> wait a minute. they're trying to get the young people who are 25 years old. >> that ain't how you do it. what is going on? whose idea was it? >> mika is right. it was the ofa, which is the outside group connected to obama trying to get people to engage in a conversation about health care. and they're using pajama boy. i don't ecknow that they still sold the top with -- >> it has a flap. >> apparently mockable. rich loaurie's comment was hilarious. this is who they think is sitting around and --

>> that's what everybody looks like. >> i think the point, jim, that you raise is a good one. if this is the strategy, the kind of strategy behind promoting and marketing this law, this is not a good time for democrats. >> one of the most flawed rollouts in the history of man kind. but you were talking about the poll numbers, the fact this they don't get young people to have this conversation and to sign up for health care, you're going to have problems. they're having problems in every state. heck, they're having problems in massachusetts where the federal mandates are now clashing with the state model that will this entire bill was built on, this law was built upon. and if those newspapers don't start to crank up in early next year and you don't see healthy young people under the age of 30 signing up for health insurance, there will be much bigger problems. >> i think showing somebody who has been completely destroyed in a car wreck is probably a better

idea. >> someone who would actually benefit. >> exactly. >> chris christie an ad on twitter, spending the cold days of december volunteering. get out of your pjs. season of service. that is pretty good. >> but you can't get there through fort lee. >> exactly. no, you can't. traffic jam. >> somebody came loaded. >> any follow-ups on that story? >> no, apparently people are pretty fired up about it. it can be a pretty big issue for him and the fact that you're now talking about it, the fact that it's in -- >> anybody coming forward with any information suggesting chris christie had anything to do with those lanes closing? >> not yet. but again, if they do -- chris christie, you get what you ask for. the guy is basically running for president, wants to run for president. people will come at him from several different angles. democrats will pounce on every single thing they can.

hillary clinton is out there building a website, building a team. >> nobody is ever prepared. >> so cokie, you said this, i don't know when, but i know i wasn't in congress, so it had to be pre-1994. probably 1991 or '92. i remember you on "this week" sayi saying -- it made -- for some -- but you said governors, senators, business people, they all think they know what it's like to run for president. nobody knows what it's like to run for president. and the second you step on to the field, everything is-will- >> and i was so right. >> you were. explain the point you were making here. >> because the national spotlight is completely

different and particularly for business people. they're the least prepared because nobody even questions them. everybody says yes, sir, whatever you say, sir. and suddenly they have people like me saying what do you mean? and they get all testy and mad. and governors are more used to it that be most, but still just at the state level. and the state level is just nothing like what it is to have the entire world looking at you and seeing every statement you've ever made. now it's every e-mail you've ever septembnt. all of that. >> and a huge difference between being scrutinized by your state compared to the press corps. >> i think he'll do fine. jim, thank you very much. >> i'll put my pjs back on. >> look at that side by side. >> i think you could be pajama boy.

>> is that an intern, do you think? >> it's me with glasses. >> what were they thinking. coming up, the latest rankings of the most valuable college football program. we'll show you the top five. and sports next. ya know, with new fedex one rate you can fill that box and pay one flat rate. how naughty was he? oh boy... [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation -- an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke. for years, jim's medicine tied him to a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but now, with once-a-day xarelto®, jim's on the move.

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time for a little "morning joe" sports. texas longhorns may not have a coach right now, but they have a lot of value. forbes is reporting the football program is worth $139 million. that's nearly 20% more than any other team in the nation. they have been the most value team since 2009. texas leads all schools in merchandise sales and the only school with a tv deal. as far as the rest of the top five, notre dame, alabama, mitch at number five and lsu at number four. all above $100 million. magazine says it considers each team's value to its athletic department, its university's academic endeavors, its conference and school's local economy. college hoops, southern i will notice basketball coach hinson had colorful things to say about his team and his wife.

>> when you have a young team, it's a lot like house training a puppy dog. when the dog does something wrong, bad dog. i'm not going to hurt them, i won't swat them, but bad dog. get on the treadmill. i think rebounding, i think it's two fold. i've been telling my wife this for years, size doesn't matter. and i really think that when it comes to rebounding, it's heart. heart and effort. >> there you go, mika. back to you. >> okay. bad dog. >> size doesn't matter. that's the one i took away from it. >> i missed that. okay. coming up even after decades in the public eye, there is still a lot we don't know about senator john mccain. mark leibovich joins us next with his revealing profile of the arizona republican. is this the bacon and cheese diet?

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here with us now, mark leibovich. he wrote the cover story of this weekend's "new york times" magazine on the, quote, post-shame mccain. in it, mark writes this part, john mccain is a cliché. many of us become walking self caricatures at a certain point and politicians can be particularly vulnerable. they engage in a lot of self-method ol guising and no one in washington has been the subject and perpetrator of more myth taking than mccain, the maverick, the former maverick, the bridge builder, the war hero, the sore loser, old bull, last lion, loose cannocannon.

you lose track of which cliché is operational at a given moment. >> politicians are very good at marketing themselves, as well. >> branding. >> most just stick with i'm the maverick. you just get the sense with john mccain he doesn't give a damn, he is what he wants to be at that moment. >> he is. it's also calculating. we have to remember that he is a politician as much as he tries to be an anti-politician. and the media is complicit in this. we deal with the shorthand mythologies which descends into shorthand caricature. i wanted to step back and look at an extraordinary american career and life and a pretty poignant moment in which there are obviously big forces competing for the soul of the republican party and also with the administration. and i think he's right in the middle of it. >> does john mccain have a point when he says he was a maverick

when he was kicking bush around in 2000 but suddenly in 2008 he was kicking obama around he became a bitter old man? his point being you loved it when i was kicking a republican. now i'm a bitter order mld man. >> i think it is fair. traditionally republicans who move left, mccain 2000 being the classic example, they get celebrated in a way that a democrat like joe lieberman becomes a traitor, an opportunityist. and i do think that there is a double standard. >> i think the bitterness of john mccain after 2008 is that he never saw it coming because these people who were friends with him while he was sticking a sharp stick in the republican party's eye turned on him in a flash the second he became the nominee. >> i think that's right. and he didn't see it coming. and he tried to make it so the

way it had always been with the bus and all of that. and -- but i still think he has a very important voice in the united states senate. and i think that the fact that he continues to try to stay relevant doing things like going to kciev that's not easy at thi age. and i think that he wants to be relevant and that in a lot of important ways he is. >> i was struck by reading your piece how much he's self aware of his place in the senate and this political history. in two regards struck me in peculiar. one is how sensitive he is towards questions about his picking of sarah palin as vice president. he even goes to the point where he's like the statute of limitations on this question has passed and he won't talk about it. and the secretaond thing is how doesn't want to stay on too long. he has witnessed colleagues who he thinks have stayed in the

senate too long well past their prime to the point where they have really rocky endings to their careers. i'm wondering if you can talk about his self awareness in both those regards. >> the palin is striking because he built much of his public career on very self flat chew lags. like the keating 5, i failed so therefore campaign finance reform must be my thing. he apologized for not the denouncing the confederate flag in south carolina. he became a hero again to many. palin, he will still be defiant. and yes, maybe there a statute of lemt tagss, but it's one thing if she goes back to alaska and they ever heard from again. but here you say ted cruz saying i wouldn't be in the senate it if it weren't for sarah palin. >> does he ever answer the question? >> not publicly or i don't think candidly. >> i want to go back to something about his voice in the party. and how is that will play itself out particularly given his recent battles with ted cruz and

how public that was. how do you see him shaping the ted cruzs in the senate and even nationally sort of finding that sweet spot to bring some kind of consensus about how the party moves forward? is he capable of that? >> he's capable in part because it's a vacuum. the centrist voice of the republican party or even the nontea party voice is quite silent. and he has always been willing to sort of take on a fight and also he has the stature to be a pole in that debate. i do think he was very i told you you so after the shutdown. and again, i think that he would like to put together a coalition of more like minded -- >> but he had a moment of silence really which was when he was being challenged from the right in his senate re-election. and that's what we're seeing over and over again. we just saw it in the budget debate where the people who have whether it's mitch mcconnell, now you've got mitch mcconnell,

tom cochran, all of them have somebody coming at them from the right before they even get to the general election. and about it does hait does hav making them much less useful in the senate. >> i disagree. i think in that race his famous line was built the dang fence. we need border security. he wins the elect and he becomes a spoken so you of this comprehensive immigration reform which you would not have guessed he would have done during that primary. so i think he's been more flexible than most. ? other cases, you're right. >> i'm saying during the primary. >> it was not long lasting. >> all right. we'll see what happens. there has to be a couple election cycles. i think in 2014 they won't get past the mitch mcconnells. we'll see. >> the story is in this weeknd's issue of the "new york times" magazine. >> good to have you back. >> belly of the beast week for me.

still ahead, we'll review the new cover of "time" magazine. keep it right here.

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up next, he was one of nine republicans to vote yes on the bipartisan budget deal. senator chambliss is standing by and chuck todd joins the discussion. "morning joe" back in a moment. [ female announcer ] we give you relief from your cold symptoms. you give them the giggles. tylenol cold® helps relieve your worst cold and flu symptoms.

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its top experts on climate change who has now admitted through his lawyer that he did absolutely no work for years by telling his bosses he was doing undercover work for the cia. turns out he had no afternoon fi of a fiaffiliation with the c c achlt whatsoever. >> how far will he go? >> he got a cusp eithered parking space by representing that he had malaria. >> malaria! malaria! he has told people he has malaria so that he may park closer to the job he does not show up at. >> welcome back to "morning joe". cokie roberts and sam stein are still with us. joining us now, chief white house correspondent and political director and host of the daily rundown, chuck todd. >> the patience of chuck todd.

>> mika walks off, she's done. wait three hours, she says, woah, like fred flintstone. >> i am. also with us -- >> couldn't get it all in? is. >> can't stop. it's because he was in the house with the five minute rule and now he has the whole --s. >> can't stop. it's because he was in the house with the five minute rule and now he has the whole --. >> can't stop. it's because he was in the house with the five minute rule and now he has the whole -- >> can't stop. it's because he was in the house with the five minute rule and now he has the whole -- >> can ci introduce our next guess? republican senator from georgia senator saxby chambliss. good to have you on the show. >> you all are having so much fun on thursday mornings and i just showed up. this is great. >> this is awesome. how is your farewell tour going? is it like dr. j? >> i have so many plaques. >> a lot of plaques. >> everybody likes you when you're leaving. >> cokie, you'll appreciate this

growing up around it, but we were on the bus in # '95, he turned to me, he goes, you know, it's a great thing, the generals saluting you and admirals saluting you and i know that's all exciting and everything. but sometimes i just sit and wonder whether this is all worth it. it's exciting the first or second time. >> he said that to you one year in? >> we all said it one year in. >> look at you. still here. >> and the plaques are worth it is basically what you're telling us. >> it's been a great run. >> smoo >> should we start with pajama boy? >> not at all. we won't do that. >> why not? >> a distinguished senior statesman. it's not 1995. >> they appear to be more reluctant than the white house

originally thought when it comes to embreyacing obamacare. 53% of those without coverage disapprove of the health care law. that is slightly higher than the 51% who have insurance. the poll also finds that the uninsured have mixed feelings about the benefits of obamacare. 33% say the law will help them, 37% say it will hurt them. but 56% of uninsured americans say they are likely -- unlikely to get coverage before the march 31 deadline. >> let's go back to the first poll number that shows that the insured and the in-up insured a about the same as far as opposing the health care plan.n about the same as far as opposing the health care plan. about the same as far as opposing the health care plan.i about the same as far as opposing the health care plan. >> you said you had similar numbers in the nbc wall street journal poll. >> people didn't a positive view of the health care law. we need to figure out why. is it because -- there are all

sorts of theories. is it because they have had such a bad experience with the health care system before they don't believe this will work? is it because they have their own financial issues, is it because they have been scared? nobody knows the why. and i think basically we're all finding this, we have the same -- we saw a similar thing. and in our next poll, we need to basically ask why. >> so when you say more americans would should have more access to health care, probably people would say yes. >> but the moral argument from the left when you say you don't like obamacare, the moral argument is you must hate uninsured. this is a real political challenge for the white house. the uninsured are saying we don't like it either. >> and it could also be people that lost a job that had health care with it, maybe working a job without health care and they're upset about that. that's the point, we don't know why. >> there's a lot of not -- >> the simplest one is is that people don't want to have to be

told to buy a product. they would like to make their open choices. >> and also the cost concern. in the "new york times" article, they talked about a lot of uninsured are worried about additional costs they don't want to have to pay. >> they were sold a product that they said they will not have to pay for. and that's just not true. they are uhe now finding out everybody will have to pay something at some point in entering the system. some of it will be up front, some of it will be when you go to the doc or to the hospital. and this is money that some folks just don't have. >> the reason some people are up insured in the first place, many of them, is because they haven't wanted to pay for health care. and they decided it was not important. and this is mainly young people. but it is others, as well. and so you tell somebody that actually you are going to have to pay for health care, you can see where there might be

resistance to that. and there will be subsidies that they're not aware of. >> this really though, does, lie at the heart of the dispute between conservatives and liberals or progressives, whatever they want to call themselves these days. and that is that liberals are more paternalistic, they want to tell what you is best for you while conservatives believe you should be able to make the decision yourself. and right now the poll numbers are suggesting that there are a lot of uninsured americans that are saying thanks but no thanks. a ronald reagan line, the most dangerous seven words in the english language are from the government i'm here to help. >> and the government people are finding out is not the best resource. more and more people who thought that was right are finding out that's not right. i think an interesting number that i have seen and its the's not reflected in your polls, but chuck, you may be more familiar with this, and that is that we kept hearing the word or the

number 30 million, 40 million people are uninsured as we were debating obamacare. and now what we're hearing is that at the end of the day when all is said and done, there is still going to be about 30 million people who are uninsured. how that translates out, i'm not sure. but what it does say is that that crowd of young folks that cokie was talking about are not excited about this. they're not jumping on board. and not willing to shell out $300, $400, $500 bucks that they haven't been used to paying. >> the white house knows they have this issue. they did a bunch of focus groups and the most reluctant are basically single men under 40. they're the most reluctant, sitting there going why do i need to shell this out. >> they all think they're immortal. >> the state of virginia -- >> guys don't figure out they're going to die until like, oh, my god, we're going to die.

>> and even then. >> i remember having an apartment in the state of virginia in arlington, the state of virginia allows to you basically pay a fee not to have auto insurance. you can pay a fee not to have auto insurance. sort of sam idea here. you pay a penalty. and let's just say i had reasons why my auto insurance was a little bit high. it was cheaper not to pay. and i remember i forked out the money, it was easier i'm thinking i just -- you you know, so what if i crash. and that's been the issue that they know -- >> except to the person that you crash into. >> there will actually be 51 billion uninsured, he said end 30, part of it is because states have not xand x. banded medicaid. but the actual number of uninsured is much larger. it will be 51 million.

>> by the way that reagan quote is nine words, not seven. >> senator, i wanted to push back a little bit on your comment about the costs or the unexpected costs to people. because first of all, it's about affordable health care, not free health care. and i would think that both parties would agree at some point in this country nothing comes for free. but do we want to continue doing the way we're doing it where everybody goes to the emergency room and we're all paying astronomical costs and our country goes downhill because we haven't tried to solve this problem and try to get people covered by insurance and get other people who can't afford it in some way to get in and yet young people covered on their parents' plans? there are some good aspects, are there not? >> to say that everything, every provision of obamacare is a bad provision is not right. and we never said that. there are some good provisions. everybody wants to see pre-existing conditions covered. everybody wants to see the pool

of insured spread across a large number of folks because that is the way you drive health care costs down. and you do that by making it affordable. we want to allow the purchase of insurance contracts across state lines. all of those things i think are good provisions. the problem is that when you tell young folks you're going to have to do this and this is affordable and all of a sudden they're paying 4 ood,$450, $500 month that they never paid, to them that is not affordable. >> in is there is a unique issu georgia is having. georgia decided not to take medicaid money and the hospitals are feeling caught, some are running out of money, some might have to close down. and i know there is basically the state governments are saying this is because the federal government is holding the state hostage with this medicaid money

and suddenly i guess there used to be some medicaid money available to these hospitals that won't be unless the state takes the medicaid money. and i know again i know -- the larger question, considering where we are with the law now, do you think the governor should accept the medicaid money so? >> no, i don't. and here's the reason why. usual right, we is probably more rural hospitals than many other states just because of the size of our state physically. my daughter is a pretty good example of what's happening to healthy folks today. she called me this week just rising cain with me said next time you see the president, you tell him this. her premium for a family of five that are basically healthy is going from $500 a month to $1500 a month. and at the same time, if we expanded medicaid in our state, we would get a check from the

federal government for the first two years, first three years, whatever it is, and then basically we're on our own. and we're going to have to raise taxes in georgia to cover that $5 million i think is the estimate. >> going to be covered 90% after three years and then that's the gap you have to cover. >> yeah. and we don't have that money now. and so we're going to have to raise taxes. so here is my daughter and her family who are taxpayers number one and they're seeing their premium go up by this amount. and then they will see their state taxes go up by an additional amount to cover thai argument you you hear from democratic and republican governors, that their biggest fiscal challenge is medicaid. >> but health care is the biggest fiscal challenge, period. that's where we are. federal government is medicare. and gm spends more on health

care than on -- >> gm -- >> one explanation might be pajama boy. >> yeah, i think so. >> layoff the poor guy. >> is that how you look over christmas vacation? >> i can say i'm stunned. >> nothing of nobody if my house looks that way. >> i have the pajamas, but not the glasses. >> a picture paints a thousand words. >> one who ahor more story to g. >> do obamacare liberals look like that? >> it's not a good picture for the progressives. it's really not. >> those are -- it makes sa gchsaxby and i get in the holiday spirit. >> like screech on saved by the bell. >> a task force appointed by president obama is now

recommending big changes to how the nsa does business. among the recommendations, the government would have to request access for data stored by phone and internet companies. there would be no more blanket court orders for personal information. another recommendation aims to put the nsa under civilian control. something the white house has already rejected. the task force also found that bulk collection of telephone records is not essential to preventing terror attacks. senator rand paul is calling on the director of national intelligence to resign over testimony he gave before the senate. >> that clap are's line to congress is probably more injurious to our intelligence capabilities than anything snowden did because clapper has damaged the credibility of the entire intelligence apparatus and i'm not sure what to believe anymore when they come to congress. and i do think what our government is doing is unconstitutional. and i really think that in order to restore confidence in our intelligence community, i think

james clapper should resign. >> so saxby, what is your take on the suggestion that james clapper should resign? >> well, i don't think he should. i've joknown jim clapper for yes and years. he's a man integrity. >> paul says he misled -- >> here is my problem with what happened in that scenario. senator widen asked a question in an open hearing that he knew if clapper answered it correctly, he was going to have tody vul mg classified information. >> in a public hearing. >> in a public hearing. and what frankly clapper should have said is, look, you and i can have a private conversation, i'm happy to answer that. he didn't. he wasn't thinking quick enough. and he didn't tans answer it correctly. but -- >> sounds like you brlame the senator who asked the question he knew the answer to. >> what senator widen will tell

you is that he sends his questions to the witness the day before. so he will say he knew i was going to ask this question. but in any event, he couldn't divulge that. >> what do you think of the new guidelines? will it make america less safe? >> are you talking about the recommendations? >> yes. >> well, it will be interesting to see how many of the 46 i think it is the president adopts. he's already rejected putting the nsa under civilian hat. and i think that's the right thing do. >> why? how is that an automatic rejection? that was the one that seemed to be -- i mean, it's not really under right now much of an oversight. it's a technically confirmed by the senate, but not. just because-of why shouldn't we get this out of military control? >> because you move it into the political arena when you do

that. and this agency is too sensitive. it does things that, you know, the military does better than the private sector. this is one of those situations. and plus, there are so many folks involved in the military that are on both sides, both the intel gathering side as well as the customer side, the largest customer of the nsa is the united states military. and that relationship that exists between the leader at the ns after the a nsa and the military needs to be a close bond. and i do think that the -- >> he said secretary of defense should be a military person. we made the decision that, no, there should be a civilian head of the pentagon. >> i have a quick question. one they think that strikes me about this review and a lot of other criticism of the program is that essentially it doesn't give us much. the review said that it hasn't helped us uncover that many plots over the course of its usage. and if that's the case, then what is the case for actually

main tapitaining such bulk data? >> how many cases does it take? we've made public the fact that there are 54 instances that we've interrupted and disrupted from a potential attack standpoint. does the death of another 2,000 americans have to happen before we step in and say, well, hey, it probably is a good program? >> senator, we were having a little conversation off the air, but this all comes in the context of the heads of the two intelligence committees in the house and senate saying we're in a very dangerous situation right now, that the likelihood of a terrorist attack is xwragreatern it has been in recent years. why is that? >> there's a lot going on out there number one from the standpoint of pre- 9/11, foe caus cuss was on training terrorists in afghanistan. we knew that was happening and we were doing our best to

monitoring it, but we didn't have the capabilities that we have now. now what do you have? terrorists training in syria, terrorists continuing to train in afghanistan, you have pakistan. you've got them spread all around the world. you've got homegrown terrorists. we've seen a number of americans who have joined the fight both overseas as well as on domestic soil such as the denver plot to blow up subway systems in new york. so there is a lot more of them out there and they're spread out in areas that it makes it more difficult for us to cover the whole spectrum. >> senator chambliss, great to have you you on. thank you so much. >> always a pleasure. >> chuck is staying with us. >> can't wait to see you in pajamas. >> it will be great. >> you keep bringing up the visual. >> will you wear the pajama boy

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is that washington or new york? gorgeous. that is new york city. we're here in washington. joining us now on the set, former national security adviser for president carter, and author of strategic vision. he was answering questions on the set talking about violence and really horrific actions. and i thought what country are we talking about? >> talking about daisy.

>> coming of age. >> seriously, she's done what i can't do, which is unhinge him. >> probably did a pretty good job. >> i was unhinging as a child, right? >> you were very difficult. >> there you go. >> love that. >> he said it in the past tense. >> what part of the word do you want to start in? >> why don't we start with the re recommendations on the nsa spying. recommendations came out yesterday. what do you see as -- how much of a security threat do you see out there from al qaeda and how aggressive do we need to be? >> the security threat from al qaeda is very real. it's not a decentralized but

increasingly global organization. >> the nsa spying, the surveillance, which now we're talking about whether or not it can be done, whether certain parts of information shouldn't be collected, how do we actually find the solution to that? >> i haven't had a chance yet to read the recommendation, but my general sense is they probably went too far. but i think also what is likely is that there is a widespread public misunderstanding of what they're doing. i think the public has kind of a primitive image of these guys at ns after the sitting with ear phones listening. and writing it down. mrs. merkel said it's a nice day outside. they're not. what they're doing is kind of engaging this sweeping activity

which is designed to track certain key words or names or numbers and establish any connectivity between them and some others. so in effect i doubt very much anyone is being listened to in any degree of sbechintensity un specifically targeted. >> what about foreign leaders? >> they're the ones we should be listening to. >> that's a different point of view. >> he's being honest. >> he's a realist. >> part of the recommendation that they said, yes, there is maybe a public misconception of what is happening, but will aren't buffers in place to prevent that misconception from becoming a reality. >> so therefore they will have to adopt some reforms. probably more cosmetic than real. but to say your phone is not being tapped. >> they want to make it into a

regular police operation in which you have to go get a warrant to find the metadata. and i'm unconvinced as to what the counter argument is. why can't the nsa have to present its case to a judge before it sweeps up all that data? >> well, but how do you justify it except by saying on the advice of sweeping through it and all of a sudden hitting some connection. >> but they have a few targets that they want to follow and then they go into their -- >> in those cases they can specifically say this is a person we want to listen to. but i wouldn't terminate a lot of the other stuff unless there is a really significant violation of civil rights in which case they learned things about individuals which are then transferred to other files. >> but how do you know who you're after? >> not knowing who you're after is not an excuse necessarily for keeping wide swathes, billions and trillions of data bites so that you can at some point in time dip back into them.

>> this is the other part of this. why is it that my electronic communications is easy to get and be made part of a today the base via is blanket subpoena to google or whoever but to come into my house to get my paper records of communications, you need a search warrant. you would need some cause. so the idea that basically i have one set of rights if i keep everything in hard copy, but i have less rights if i keep everything electronicallyelectr? >> except you have a higher legal of belief that your letters are more private than say e-mails. for the past decade, i've had people telling me anything that you put in an e-mail is going to be -- >> and g-mail will tell you they read your e-mail. so that they can market to you and sell something. >> that doesn't make it right.

>> i just gave you my size. what else do you need? >> courts look at reasonable expectations of privacy when deciding such things and you have a lower expectation of pry privacy with an e-mail should not with a letter. take that up with the court. but in our society today, that's what the court looks at. do you have a reason to believe you should be more safe in your home than flying across the country sending an e-mail about that. >> a lower court did just rule on this. i have a feeling it will get overturned, but they said it'sen unconstitutional. >> let's talk iran. how are you feeling about what is going on now as we progress through talks? >> we are where we are with iran, which is essentially we have six months now to deepen the agreement, increase its

scope and i think it will be tough sledding. things are happening in that region and there might be some tension, some disagreements. we may not see eye to eye with iran on every aspect of the syrian problem. i'm sure that is going to be fed into the debate about the agreement with iran regarding its nuclear program. so it will be very tough, but the president i think has determined and is giving true backing to secretary kerry. and i think kerry is really doing a fantastic job. >> i was going to say, how is john scar kerry is doing. >> i think he really is an effective secretary of state. he focuses on strategic issues. his predecessor was taker risk, but she had a different agenda. she had a global agenda. she had a futuristic agenda, human rights, gender issues, global climate, et cetera. he is focused on real strategic issues. >> is that proof, though, and this is not -- i'm not trying to

be judgmental. but secretary kerry's presidential ambitions are over. and so he's -- >> are they? >> he looks more comfortable in his own skin right now. secretary clinton clearly-will-was she more cautious? you can't help but wonder, was she more cautious because she thought would she have been comfortable negotiating the iran deal going into 2016. so i wonder how much that is proof that maybe -- >> how do i know, how do you know? >> you're right. >> my point is she's being cautious because she's thinking of 2016, then she's thinking about the wrong things while being secretary of state. >> i recently was with a european diplomat who had the view that second kerry is in some ways out on his own and that the president is not engaged in the middle east and really does not want to be.

and that there is a sense in europe right now that the united states is absent from a lot of these very important -- >> unless you want the president to give another speech and confirm i love what john kerry is doing 100%, he's basically said that. from what little i know, i think he does have his backing. and it's interesting to note and public opinion polls show that the majority of israelis a s fa the way things are going and they favor the general outlines of the potential agreement. my sense is that netanyahu probably at some point will trade his opposition to the iran deal for a better deal for israel in the peace process in return for which he will then separate the peace process. >> dad, before you you go, if we could talk a little bit about

what's next with ukraine and why what is happening there is so significant. >> it's terribly significant. we didn't really focus on it the way we should be. the issue is really not ultimately ukraine. although of course it's future is of importance in europe. the issue is what russia will be for a long time to come. because if you crane moukraine europe, without it russia condition be an empire. you have underdeveloped states. but if russia can incorporate belarus and ukraine, it has gained an empire and is a security problem for europe. >> and what were your thoughts on the delegation that the president set which comprise two gay athletes, no president, no former president, no vice president. was this a diplomat tech shot?

>> i think the president was following in the foot steps of the german and french president? >> i think the president was following in the foot steps of the german and french president? >> i think the president was following in the foot steps of the german and french president? >> i think the president was following in the foot steps of the german and french president? >> i think the president was following in the foot steps of the german and french president? >> i think the president was following in the foot steps of the german and french president? >> i think the president was following in the foot steps of the german and french president. there are reasons to concerned about their policy. russians have recently placed medium range missiles in the former east russia which enables them to target both the vulcan republics. why are they doing that? putin is talking about russia being a great you power based on what? a stagnant economy? a nation that is very divided now? but should be called an empire, an imperial system? and i think that the question really is how long will he be around. probably not be a major change in russian policy while he's alive because he's dominanting the instruments of power and appealing to the most

nationalistic aspect of russian society. >> and he's young. >> youngish. he's older than he looks. but there is a new middle class emerging in russia that wants to be part of europe and wants to be democratic. so i think the stake in ukraine is how to prevent the retrogression from becoming overriding and dominant and to prepare the ground for ukraine sliding towards the west and russia following it when the opening develops in russia. >> all right. dad, thank you. i'll see you christmas eve. and i can tell you right now cajun will be much better behaved than daisy. >> oh, stop. competition of the dogs. >> cajun will be so polite. unfortunately, daisy will destroy -- >> you guys compete about

everything. >> but lovingly. >> you should see this dog. this dog they have is crazy. the year in pictures. we'll look at some of the images that define 2013 like this iconic photo from the world series. plus a senate candidate in georgia says kids who can't afford to pay for school lunch should sweep the cafeteria to earn their keep. come on now. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe". congressman jack kingston who is running for senate in georgia is proposing that low income students do manual labor in good x. chan exchange for reduced price lunch. what is going on here? take a listen. >> why don't you have the kids pay a dime, pay a nickel. instill there is no such thing as a free lunch. or maybe sweep the floor in the

cafeteria. i understand that it would probably lose you money, but think what we would gain as a society in getting people -- get the myth out of their head that there is such a thing as a free lunch. >> wow. >> chairman steel? rnc chairman michael steele. >> there goes your party again. >> to punish the kids for their parents' poverty? >> basically. >> i hope that's not what jack -- >> kingston's office released a statement reading it is sad trying to have a productive conversation about installing a strong work ethic in the next generation of americans so quickly deinvolves in to the usual name calling partisan hysteria. having worked from a young age himself, congressman kingston understands the value of hard work. don't double down. dude, didn't double down. don't double down.

right? the point is that poor kids in school shouldn't have to work for their lunch, that the rich kids can afford? all of them can work. >> gingrich said this, it was a huge political problem. >> have them all sweep the floor. i get that. >> but this goes right back to the 47%. this idea that somehow, you know, the safety net -- this is the safety net that everybody seemed to agree on. this is one that when this comes to the school lunch program, but for main of these kids, this is their one healthy meal of the day. this is their one complete meal of the day. so to turn this into hfr-everybody agrees on the work study, but to create a class issue in school -- >> i think that's the thing. >> we're trying to get school n uniforms to erase class. >> the lomgic is they don't foe what hard work means. and that'sen suggesting. >> the rich do know what hard work means?

>> it's unfortunate and again, to the broader point, this is an area where again i think the party can have a better voice than it has had in terms of, yes, talking about the value of work and hard work and all of that. but that safety net, that is something that is intrinsically a part of keeping people from poverty. as newt gingrich did say, we don't want people to fall into the net and not bounce out of it. so the the idea that if you want to couple the program that helps those students with work or whatever, that's great. but don't make it an either/or. >> jack king stgstokingston, yo guy. just take it back. up next, a protestor reacts to tear gas during a demonstration in turkey. it's among "time" magazine's year in pictures. we'll go through the list next on "morning joe". [ male announcer ] this is jim,

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48 past the hour. joining us now onset, michael duffy hear to reveal this week's issue, the year in pictures. michael, good to have you on. >> nice to be here. >> let's start with the year of the selfie. >> this probably wasn't a sell if if i oig. >> no, sorry. we have two. the australia girl with beyonce. we have the papal sellselfie. and of course the president's selfie. >> it's a big revolution in photography. probably more taken in the last year or two than in the last 100 years. >> and that is a fox sports

kelly nash, i guess she was taking a selfie. and she got hit by that? >> i don't think she got hit will, but she certainly got the shot. >> that's what you get when you stop to when you shot to take a picture of yourself. >> the baseball stadium where there were signs that said be careful of the baseball. >> no selfies. >> the best of the best of 2013. the first we have to show are two victims amid the rubble of a garment factory of a bangula desh building collapse. >> is there a more haunting or moving picture? we tried to figure out who the two were and no one seems to know. that means they are essentially every man and every woman. we can all relate to some element of that. it might be the picture of the year. >> the story continues with some

major clothing manufacturers not helping out in the aftermath of that. the next photo is april 19th, 2013. a 19-year-old boston marathon suspect in the boat placed in custody. >> the pictures were taken by shawn murphy, police photographer. he was going to keep them and when rolling stones put something on the cover, he said these need to be seen. these are the real pictures of terror. >> didn't he get suspended from his job for doing that? >> i don't know, but he is now longer with -- i think. >> staying in boston? this is the greatest shot ever. >> game two, american league championship series. right fielder torii hunter going

back for the shot. he made a great effort that his grand slam was better. they were down 2-1 in the series. that was the moment as well as reaction. >> everybody was that for halloween. they dressed up as that. we have that photo as well. >> a 5-year-old with leukemia, thanks to the make a wish foundation he spent a day in san francisco rescuing a damsel in distress and saving the giants mascot, the seal. getting a key to the city and these pictures went viral and stayed that way for several days. >> the president did his first insta gram or twitter video of

honoring the kid. >> another sign this revolution which everyone can play and is playing all the time. >> and then i think we started with this photo that involves the seal and a great white and somehow that seal got lucky. >> the photographer got really lucky. >> he got really lucky. oh, my gosh. >> seal island. the photographer's name is david jenkins and he has been spending the last five or six years documenting this. this we used on the cover in which a seal is clearly there. all of us have been in the position of a shark and the seal. it's also a great moment. >> incredible. >> the year in pictures. look at that.

michael duffy, thanks so much. a member of a senate finance committee. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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up next, hillary clinton talks about her plans for 2016 and barbara wallers won't take i

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. >> if i look at my friends and former colleagues who are now in the senate, it was women on both sides of the aisle who broke the fever over the government shut down and the debt limit debate. they have been working across party lines. we need more of that. >> i listen to you and i think you have to run.

something. >> this is the way i talked 40 years ago, barbara. this gets me up in the morning. i care so much about what's going to happen to this country because i'm a beneficiary of all of the sacrifice that my parents's generation and generations before me. i sure don't want to be part of a generation that sees america's dream be depreciated when i don't think that is necessary. there is so much more we can do. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 on the west coast. back with us on set in d.c., we have sam stein, michael steel, jeremy peters and cokie roberts. hillary clinton we heard from her as we bumped into the show. she was named 2013's most fascinating person. in an interview last night, the former secretary of state was asked the question on everyone's

mind. >> when will you, if you do, decide whether or not you are going to run for president? >> it's such a difficult decision. it's that i am not going to rush into. i don't think we should be looking at the next election, but the work we have today. >> i have to push for the answer about whether or not you might run for president. >> i haven't made up my mind. i will look carefully at what i think i can do and make the decision next year. >> does your husband want you to run? >> he is very respectful. >> he does want you to run. >> he wants me to do what i think is right. >> if you ran and won, what would they call your husband? first spouse some. >> i don't know. first mate. >> do you think it's important we have a female president. >> i do. i don't know the timing of it or

who that might be, but half the population has given so much to building this country and making it work and of course i want to see a woman in the white house. >> cokie, so it begins. with hillary. >> this is so cokie, you are a woman. >> what do you think? >> it has nothing to do with that and more to do with the fact that we see this every four years and you have seen it for quite a while with me. it is way too premature. >> way too premature. every time we do this, we get in and so and so will be the nominee and it's someone else all together. obviously she is the front-runner. she is the person to beat if she

runs. i don't think that we know and i don't think she knows. >> one thing that was blatantly false is her husband wants her to do what she wants to do. bill wants her to run. >> but he wants her to want to run. >> she has certainly done things in the past six months that leads you to believe she is there. >> it would be silly not to. >> i guess you are right. >> she hasn't ruled it out. if you don't rule it out, you do things to prepare. >> you have to prepare. >> one of the closest races in virginia history is decided and gives democrats a clean sweep. republican mark obenshain conceded the race to mark herring. initially 165 votes separated the candidates. they represent an ongoing tilt to the left in virginia and rebuke to the more conservative candidates on the ballot.

the first time since 1969 that the top five state-wide races were held by democrats in the state of virginia. >> michael steel, liberals were saying this. it's not tilling left. everyone who lives in virginia know it's not tilting left. the candidates jumped off the cliff on the right. ken cuccinelli was the most moderate on the ticket here. if there is one exhibit of the excesses of the republican party, it is what happened in the state of virginia and this shows you what happens when you are more interested in having everybody say that you are pure as the driven snow. >> the party both in the state of virginia and nationally

forget that the demographic shifts that is starting to drive the trend lines. virginia is still a strong purple state. it's not the shift to the left. number two, if you look the lieutenant if an open primary process he would be the incoming governor this year. virginia has those roots that the republican party could hold on to. mainstream. >> it's their process. >> the primary process that allows you to -- we don't want a primary, let's do a convention. >> and most. >> virginia is so left wing that on the day that terry mcauliffe was elected governor, bob mcdonald had a higher approval rating not only than terry mcauliffe, but also barack

obama. >> the place to test the purpleness will be in the congressional seat. >> the swing district in an area north of washington. democrats are looking for that as the waterloo of sports. as we go into 2014. there has been a shift in the suburbs to the left. it's become suburbs around washington. increasing minority and virginia has drifted away from the rest of the south. you look at the confederacy and they are dopely republican. they have broken from the trend and the new solid south emerged. >> all i will say is 2009, they had a guy running who focused on jobs and instead of pitching tantrums, he was moderate and

won by over 20 percentage points. >> also in the news. >> all of this as a huge federal investigation was looming. you are right. he had a relatively high approval rating. >> a dwreer after barack obama was elected. >> there demographic changes that can't be discounted. i think that the national republican party hurt the virginia party. s said the timing was tripling chances. when you had a shut down that lasted three weeks in the lead up to the election it was not good. >> ken cuccinelli said that himself. he blamed it on washington, d.c. >> it wasn't his fault. >> it's surprising to have a guy do that. >> he could have condition what

the tea party was doing after the election. there is establishment republicans. they kept money and didn't trust a tea partier. he chose to go after ted cruz. >> jeremy had something to say about that. truth is that the changes are taking place in the south. virginia is just that. it will be interesting to see what happens throughout the south. woe will see a big change. it takes a while to really evidence itself. >> to have it pan out. stay staying in virginia and officials are delaying charges against bob mcdonald and his wife. prosecutors said they would be charged with the gift scandal that plagued the end of his time

in office. they questioned the legitimacy of the ke witness and requested they wait until mcdonald is oust office. a decision to press charges is got expected before january 2000 and would come as late as february. >> what bob mek donald did was stupid. you can say it was unbecoming. there is a long history of people doing the same thing. i am still trying to figure out why it didn't violate virginia law. why the feds are getting involved in this. you look at the fact as reports show that this company got no grants from the state. got no contracts from the state. nobody was appointed to anything. this reminds me of what happened

post abramoff. the bush administration went crazy. i have staffers that were dragged through the mud for seven years. their lives destroyed. lives destroyed because some prosecutor decided they were going to make a point. their lives were meked only to be told we don't have anything on you. this is outrageous. >> ted stevens is the perfect example. ted stevens had to die for people to go wait a second. we were overzealous. i would give eric holder credit on this. he went to the excesses and the abuses of the bush justice department. he took care of some of them and some of my friends were told, we're sorry. we apologize. move on. in this case, they are going out of their way to try to grab

headlines and i'm glad they are delayed. bob mcdonald paid his price. >> the thing about this is this is a state statute-driven offense. the state statute allows for this to happen. that's the mistake. >> they should change the law. >> would never do it. i'm sure your family would have never done it. i think this is totally unseeming. to prosecute a man and his wife for following basically what the law allows. >> i would say i'm confused about the difference between the fed and the state authorities. there is a in trying to tamper is down. i know there were no grants, but he set up officials with the

company executive i'm fine with people fasill stating business. you have to be careful. when you give donations and give gifts to politicians. there is a lowell for prosecutors. >> there is not a federal role when the state law allows that to happen. >> it was not just donations, but big presents too. basically paying for the daughter's wedding. >> that's shocking for those of us living outside of rir vir that that's allowed to happen. >> it's lax campaign finance laws. you can give anything to everyone. >> of course don't forget that the court took away one of the government's biggest tools when they invalidated the act. that allowed prosecutors to go after politicians who were

accused of denoticing the coverage. >> they are more ready than the whouts thought when it comes to embracing obamacare. 53% of those without coverage disapprove of the law, slightly higher than the 51% who have insurance. >> look at the numbers. >> that's a tie. >> it's a tie. but still what are the uninsured as skeptical as the insured of the president's health care plan and isn't that a political problem? >> obamacare is a political problem, period. full stop. you can go through and people are not educated on it and that is true. the roll out was terrible. that is true. until something comes out that make people think this is something i need and i want to

do this, this is what you are going to say. >> you have to buy something and that is not surprising. they won't find that to be a popular proposition. once they get the product and experience the product, they will grow to like the product. i don't know if that's going to happen. it will take time. >> i'm sorry. the idea that you couldn't get the website to work? next year you get patience. what happens then. that's what the numbers say. >> he is not administering the health care. >> thank god. it will turn around. it may be a political stopper, but i don't know else could do it. i know what you are thinking, but it's an impossible feat to get health care going. they're doing it. coming up, a tweet from team obama is crossing ber net and

even chris christie is in on it. here's first bill with a check on the forecast. >> the warm air is on the way and the white christmas will go away in a hurry. the big storm moving into the western half of the country. when the west is stormy, the east is warm. thoot the pattern we are setting up for. this will bring a chance of rain to l.a., san diego and heavy snow around salt lake city, utah. freezing rain overnight and now it's turning to snow. we exec you to get three to five inches where most of the airport delays would be. the snow moved into the central and northern plains. not a lot. around two inches to four inches. the warmth is on the way. 70 in dallases and 55 in the

city. d.c. at 57. look what happened. boston with six inches of snow and you will be near 60 degrees with rain. i would be surprised if there was as much snow left in boston by christmas day. no more snow on the way. all that snow in central park will be gone when we hit near 70. you are watching "morning joe". bl mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971.

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>>. >> let's take a look at the morning papers. further proof that pope francis's appeal is reaching the masses. more than two million people flocked to his events in st. peter's square since his election in march. four times the number pope benedict drew in all of 2012. his message refreshed a few for the church that had seen its numbers waning. he's a superstar. for all good reasons. >> the babies. >> i thought john paul ii was an aberration for the catholic church. they have done a good job in picking two out of three popes. >> this one most reminds you of john the 23rd who he decided to make a saint all on his own.

along with john paul. it will be quite a day in april when they are canonized together. >> from the parade of papers, targest customers are at risk after a major security breech. it started on and may have continued until december 15th. they believe thieves installed software on credit card machines. they are not sure who is affected. >> great. the star show duck dynasty star was suspended indefinitely after a controversial interview with gq magazine. he robbery flekts on the bible and what he describes as sin that is becoming mainstream in american society. he said in part start with homosexual behavior and moefr out from there. do i have to reit this?

>> beastiality and sleeping around with women. that woman and that woman and there is more from the article that we can't say on morning television. amy said they are disappointing and the views don't present the network. this was with the "new york daily news" and good news for the blind man and his loyal guide dog. he was set to part with his dog next month because of his age. he can't afford to keep orlando as a pet and multiple owners stepped in to cover ex3e7bss. an emotional william had this to say. >> i top the say thank you for everybody showing humanity. peace and good will. he's my best buddy. he's my pal. all the people that contribute or donated, i think that we should take our hat off to them.

there still good people in this world. >> let's go to the telegraph. single $140 ralph ticket won one lucky gambler a picasso painting worth more than $1 million. he performed it to use in an online charity auction. they raised $5 million. a 25-year-old art lover from pennsylvania was the lucky winner and vows not to sell the painting for now. >> the atlanta journal constitution said he hit the mega millions jackpot. she will split the jackpot with me. i hope. making her roughly $120 million richer before taxes. jim, what's this about pajama

boy? >> the white house's attempts to make obamacare a talking point spilled over to twitter this week introducing the world of pajama boy. the white house asked how do you plan to spend the cold gays of december and that presents a hipsterish model wearing flannel pajamas and drink hot chocolate and talk about getting health insurance. get talking. >> wow. >> stop it though. >> that's going to get him on the main stage. >> he is called a man child saying perhaps the goal was to create a mockable image to draw attention to the message in which case pajama boy was a brilliantly successful troll.

>> my god. this guy looks like -- he looks like he had a bad weekend. what's going on there. >> they were trying to get young people who were 25 years old. >> whose idea was it? >> it was the ofa, the outside group connected to obama to engage in health care and they are using the articles. pajama boy. i didn't know they sold the top of it. >> exactly. >> he is apparently mockable. it's quite hilarious and makes this argument that this is everything. >> i want to see the picture. >> who they think is sitting around.

>> i think that the point that you raised is a good one. if this is the strategy, the kind of strategy behind promoting and marketing the law, this is not a good time for democrats. this is one of the most flawed roll outs. he goes to the number that they were talking about earlier. they don't get young people to have this conversation and the sign up for health care. you will have problems in every state. where the federal mandates are flashing with the state model that this bill was built upon. if the number it is dons don't and people under 30 have health insurance. >> someone completely destroyed

in a car wreck is a better idea. >> that's right. exactly. chris christie spoofed the ad, we are spending the cold days of december volunteering. get out of your pjs. >> you can't get there. >> exactly. >> no, you can't. >> any follow-ups on the story? the bridge thing. >> twitter people are fired up about it. it can be a big issue for him and the fact that two days in a row, he will be talking about it. >> anybody coming forward and the information that has anything to do with it? any information? . >> chris christie, you get what you ask for. he is running for president and wants to run. people will come at him from several angles.

democrats will pounce on everything. hillary clinton is building a website. >> nobody is ever prepared. >> cokie roberts, you said this. i know i wasn't in congress. it had to be pre1994. probably 1991 or 92. i remember you saying, it made it and it's the first time. you said governors, business people, they think they know what it's like to run for president. nobody knows what it's like to run for president and the second you step on to the field, everything is new. >> i was right. >> explain though. >> the national spotlight is

completely different from business people. they are the least prepared. nobody even questions them. they have every vision. whatever you say sir. they have people saying what do you mean? they get all testy. governors are more used to it than most. it's nothing like what it is to have the entire world looking at you and seeing every state that you have made. now it's every e-mail you have sent and all of that. >> there is a difference between being scrutinized by your local community and having a press core that is much more savvy and experienced. >> absolutely. >> every angle. >> every example. >> thank you very much. i think you could be.

>> and the intern? i don't know. >> what were they thinking? up income, chairman of the conference john thum joins us and also casey hunt. "morning joe" is back in a moment. there's a saying around here, you stand behind what you say. around here you don't make excuses. you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up, and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it when you know where to look.

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>> welcome back to "morning joe." we have a member of the finance committee. also back at the table. along with casey hunt, it's good talking to you. all the high school and they have been around for a long time. we have the moderate old souls that makes us all feel very old and sad. >> what happened, joe? >> i don't know. i know this. you are just as conservative as you were in 1994 and i'm just as conservative as i was in 1994

when they called us right wing nuts. that's a good question. let's talk about the budget for a second. i don't like it. i understand a lot of republicans supported it. we didn't want another government shut down. it would be devastating to our brand. i am particularly concerned with military retirees taking it on the chin the way they are. is there a fix as you guys go through the conference committee. you will find plays to save money other than from the military retirees? >> it needs to be fixed. that should have been caught before it got to the floor. i think there is consensus on both sides that that was a bad dwoigz have in the bill. when congress gets back an attempt to make that right. there is no way that should have been done in such a way. there other issues with the

budget. most republicans at least in the senate were concerned about breaking the caps and the limits we put in place two years ago in the budget control act on a promise that somehow we are going to recoup the savings nine or ten years from now. you know and i know from having been here, there is little that will be seen in terms of saving. what ended up happening, it was not something that happened that most were in favor of. >> it looks like congress is going to leave town without having extended unemployment insurance on december 28th. without taking action. what is the message that you have for the 1.3 million on the program. you will get a cut because it's not extended. >> people would continue to keep the old law here.

>> exactly. i suspect there is going to be a fairly spirited debate about that. let's put policies in place to create jobs and get people back to work. we will talk aggressively about that. i suspect the democrats are probably going to want to have a discussion around an extension and we're happy to enter in and talk about the other things we want to do that we think would solve the problem. that's getting americans back to work. that's the best solution to the high unemployment issue. >> it's nice to see you. as this budget passed, the idea that it would end government by crisis, we will be facing the debt ceiling again when you return in january. the senator suggested that there was no way that would be a clean lift. what do you think republicans should demand in exchange for raising a debt ceiling.

>> for would be great to get progress on long-term entitlement reform. the deal scratched the surface, but that was about it. most us like to see tax reform and entitlement and things we think would bend the curve in favor of growth. right now what we are struggling from is the sluggish economy and massive amounts of debt which need to be fixed in the form of reforming the spending and entitlement and tax reform. energy policy i suspect will be an effort to do things along the lines of attaching the approval for the debt limit. those are things that i am throwing out there. we will get into the discussion and the actual date is sort of vague uncertain. we talk about february seventh, but what they can use to extend that, they are not hitting the debt limit. there will be time to talk about that.

we think that in exchange for raising the debt limit, we ought to do something about the debt. >> good morning, senator. jeremy peters here. i want to follow-up on the question and republicans hit a bit of a stride in seizing on the problems with obamacare. i wonder who what extent you think the fight over the debt ceiling is going to muddy your message on obamacare. is there a lot of talk that republicans really ought to stick to focusing on obamacare? >> sure there is. that is one thing that you nice republicans have all struck. everyone recognizes that this is something harmful to the country. it is causing us a loss of jobs and coverage for a lot of americans and sticker shock with higher premiums. we want to focus on that and the debt limit ties into it.

i think it reminds people of dramatically expanding the government and taking over with health care and adding significantly to the debt. it may be that there is a way to merge the discussions. i think it's going to be important as we head in for republicans to stay focused and talk about spending and debt and the economy. ultimately as i argued many times over and tried to convince my colleagues, they are talking about growing the economy and creating jobs. that will get the country back on the right track. that helps address and deal with the debt. >> all right, john. great talking to you. thanks for being with us. >> merry christmas. isn't it great? thank you, uncle tim. casey, stay with us if you will.

what is driving today's markets? we have brian sullivan to talk to us about that. ♪ ♪ ♪

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hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. welcome become to "morning joe." look at time square. looking better than the last couple of days. let's go to brian sullivan for business before the bell. you look at the front pages and the fed is tapering. the market is reacting fairly positive. >> it was a huge day. good morning, everybody. people were fearing this idea.

they are completely mocking my opinion. they began tapering and transferred the tapering. what i mean is in the dialogue that the fed came and they came back and what they said was that they would keep interest rates lower for longer than even they said before. in other words, low interest rates and easier credit for a longer period of time. i got lot of and it's good for housing and the consumer. i know it's hard for people to get credit, but if you can get it, it's better for you. they rallied in a giant way. yesterday was one of the best days for stocks. >> let's talk about netflix. looks like they are continuing to move in a new intersection. here's a trailer from a documentary they are doing. >> i can't believe you are going to lose. >> what do you think in a

concession speech? >> you have a number for the president? >> i do. >> hadn't thought about that. >> that is compelling stuff. amazing what this company has done over the past year and a half. >> what they have done and the clip shows it. you said wow. that's the response they want and what they want and will probably get is for people to say that and say i'm not a netflix subscriber, but they have original content and i will pay the $8.99 a month to join. this has been one the hottest stocks on the market. the original content has not only been good, but has driven new subscribers to the mitt documentary. they hoped joe would do the same

thing. >> it's unbelievable. you look back on television and this was as it was before band of brothers and a guy like this. i will spend $150 million on an original tv series. that changed everything. it led to the sopranos and now netflix takes it. it is where americans are. i want to see everything and all on the weekend and go to netflix to get it. >> you look at the critical top ten programs. three or four were on netflix. >> binge watching. you sit down and you watch five, six, seven episodes of one show, each an hour long. i love it. >> you are a guide. are we going to have a national championship this year some.

>> you know what? it's clear. i would take off the war eagle audience and fsu is unbeatable. i would love to see it. they have a weak conference. how the one team led, it's fantastic. >> we will see what happens. you see how they won the georgia game straight out of the movies and the alabama game. teams like that. >> i was on my way. they are pretty weak this year and auburn has week in and week out. >> we shall see. thank you so much. keep it right here on "morning joe." all we do is go out to dinner. that's it? i mean, he picks up the tab every time, which is great... he's using you. he probably has a citi thankyou card and gets 2x the points at restaurants huh the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn 2x the points on entertainment, with no annual fee. go to citi.com/thankyoucards

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contempt doesn't matter. if anything, it might hurt profits to spend money making customers happy. that's right, folks. the free market has spoken and they said [ bleep ] you. >> up next, what if anything did we learn today? stick with innovation. stick with power. stick with technology.

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>> welcome back to "morning joe." i think all of us were watching the clip of mitt romney, a documentary on netflix. we saw a side in this little clip that is pretty stunning. went behind the scenes and humanized the guy. >> if you want to humanize yourself, wait until after you run for president and make a documentary about yourself. >> that's amazing. >> this is the second time this year that we have seen a human side of a losing candidate after the race. chris quinn does a remarkable video of her campaign and this is the same thing with mitt romney. >> it seems like this is what the campaign failed to do for so long. present this portrait of a man that i got to know fairly well

over the course of a year plus. >> he's a great guy. >> great guy. >> you are not going to take responsibility her makeover. >> for it's way too early, it's "morning joe." because he is 20 feet from us, here's chuck todd. we are so well lined up. it's made for television. here's chuck. >> three years after protests in the middle east, fighting rages in syria and the outlook is anything but certain. an interesting check in there. a new report told president obama to have more oversight and limits on the national security agency. privacy concerns change the