from philips sonicare and save now. philips sonicare. hi, everyone. i'm tamron hall. the news nation is following developing news. new demands from india's foreign minister that the u.s. drop charges against an indian diplomat arrested in new york. india's deputy counsel general in new york is accused of submitting false documents to obtain a work visa for a housekeeper who she allegedly paid less than $3 an hour. the diplomat also says she was strip searched and mistreated while in custody. in india, the arrest has sparked outrage and protests with one senior official comparing the alleged strip search to a gang rape. the story has been headline news

since it broke. >> the prime minister has called her treatment by the united states deplorable and the government has now accused the u.s. of facilitating immigration fraud. >> india's foreign minister says the case, quote, is no longer about an individual, it is about our sense of self as a nation and our place in the world. the state department says secretary of state john kerry sought to ease tensions in a phone call to india's national security adviser. >> the secretary empathizes with the sensitivities we are hearing from india about the events that unfolded after the arrest and in his conversation with national security adviser he expressed his regret as well as his concern that we not allow this unfortunate public incident to hurt our close and vital relationship with india. >> but government leaders in india say the secretary needs to officially apologize. until then, india has withdrawn some privileges given to u.s. diplomats and removed security barriers at the u.s. embassy in

new delhi. joining me now "time" magazine international reporter nate rolings. thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> we have congresswoman gabbert of hawaii kmecommenting on this arrest. her statement says, i was disappointed to hear initial reports about the treatment of devyani. while we must ensure our laws are being followed by all those who reside in or visit our country, it is also essential that foreign diplomats in the u.s. are treated with dignity, respect, and sensitivity as we expect the same of our diplomats abroad. so authorities say she was strip searched, but they deny that she had a cavity search, which is a part of the allegation here. nevertheless, the strip search alone has a great number of people in india quite upset by what they see as demeaning treatment here. >> well, right. just the overall treatment that she got when she was arrested has caused quite a bit of outrage in india.

india's minister of external affairs made a speech before parliament where he said that this wasn't just about one person or one individual, that it was about an entire country and their place in the world. so there's definitely been some ramifications beyond just this case. >> the u.s. marshals say the treatment was in line, if not -- and you told me even better than what an average citizen would receive. >> well, the u.s. attorney for manhattan put out a lengthy statement in a sort of unexpected lengthy statement yesterday saying the treatment that she received was even better than that most u.s. citizens would have gotten. she was allowed to use her cell phone to make arrangements for her children. she was not put in handcuffs in front of her children but rather handcuffed later on. so he's contending that it was not only a fair treatment but also maybe a better treatment than she would have gotten. >> as i pointed out in the setup, there are government officials who say this is not just about this individual. they see it as a disrespect of their nation.

in fact, there was one quote in the associated press report on this, india's upper house of parliament, a representativity in the upper house in parliament there said, for so long these americans have taken us for granted, and we love to surrender every time they insult us, sbinterfere in our affairs d humiliate our citizens. we keep quiet here. so this has ballooned past this one individual, obviously. >> sure. and it's a pretty damning statement. this is causing, you know, quite a headache for secretary of state john kerry, who probably would rather be doing many other things right now than dealing with this. he's supposed to be meeting with india's minister of external affairs today. the minister has said he wants to try to find a diplomatic solution and take care of this. >> what would be the diplomatic solution when you have the foreign minister demanding charges be dropped against her? >> that would probably be what he would want. according to the statement, he sounds like he wants to go forth

with this prosecution and at least make the case that diplomats and console officers are not above the law here. >> and at least some officials in india see this diplomat as the victim and not the housekeeper or the caretaker here in that at least in this one report there's an expectation in india that the wealthiest are given exception. for example, a housekeeper, if these allegations are true, would be someone that people would not empathize with in the country. >> well, sure. there's a lot of cultural differences to kind of unpack here. basically what we're looking at is this would be handled differently in india than it would be here in the united states. >> that the idea of an affluent diplomat being charged or even taken in for lying to the government is something that just would not happen. >> right. or filling out erroneously government forms, perhaps in india that would cause someone to be arrested, certainly in the way she was. here in the united states, because it is the law, that's the way it's being treated.

>> all right. we'll see what the next step is here in this. obviously this is continuing. thank you so much. great pleasure having you on. >> thank you so much for having me. we're also following developing news in michigan. a judge has ruled the man accused of killing 19-year-old renish amc bride will stand trial for second-degree murder and manslaughter. over the past two days, prosecutors argued 54-year-old theodore wafers' use of deadly force was unreasonable when he fired through his screen door, hitting mcbride in the face. the judge said wafer made a, quote, bad decision when he brought his gun to the door. >> yes, this court recognizes we can't automatically penalize one for making a bad decision when pressed to react quickly. but at the same time, we can't allow one to use the bad decision as a shield to criminal prosecution. >> investigators say mcbride had been in a car accident hours before the shooting and wandered

to wafer's suburban detroit home where she knocked for help. wafers' attorney claims he feared for his life and should be protected by the state's self-defense law. nbc legal analyst lisa bloom joins us now. the attorney for mr. wafer argued that the prosecution did not present enough evidence to show the intent necessary here for second-degree murder. obviously, the judge disagreed with that. >> well, that's right. and the defense has a second chance now, a trial to assert self-defense if they can prove it at trial, he still has a chance at being acquitted. but this is a very good sign for the prosecution because this is the judge weighing in and saying, look, bringing a gun to the front door when someone is banging on your door, putting it in the face of this young woman, pulling the trigger, and killing her was a bad decision. i think most people would think that's an understatement. and this certainly sounds like murder or manslaughter. >> let me play more of what the judge said regarding mr. wafer going to the door, which he admits with that gun. let's play it. >> defendant the use of a

peephole. what could a reasonable person do in defendant's case? what did he do in his case? he brought a shotgun to the door. what is he going to do with a shotgun? well, what is he going to do with a shotgun? he's either going to shoot a person, scare a person, or he's going to protect himself. now, what are other things that he could have done? well, he could have not answered the door. he could have called for help. >> lisa, it seems likely during the trial that's exactly what we will hear from the prosecution. >> that's right. and the judge is focusing on one of the most important words in the law, reasonable. we all have an obligation to behave reasonably. this homeowner had to behave reasonably when he took a shotgun to the door. he had a legal right to do that, but he could only use it in self-defense if he was reasonably in fear of great bodily injury or death. so far he hasn't shown that. >> one of the witnesses yesterday, we discussed this with you, angela beasley, she gave testimony. she encounteder renisha right

after the accident in front of her home. she called 911 and then went outside to help renish amc bride. this is a part of her testimony in this hearing. let's play it. >> i saw blood on her hand. i said, you're hurt, let me call the ambulance. i want you to sit down and let me call the ambulance. she said sit down where? i said sit down here inside of the car. she was doing this. >> both hands? >> both hands. >> on the side of her head? >> yes, yes. >> and she looked hurt? >> yes. she just kept saying she wanted to go home. >> and lisa, that could have been the result, obviously, of this accident but also it was noted that miss mcbride was legally drunk and smoked marijuana. some people see that as blaming the victim. how does that play out in the trial as we move forward? >> well, i think what's important from this witness is that renisha wanted to get home and that she was disoriented and confused, probably as a result of all those factors you list, the alcohol, the marijuana, and

the car accident. what this witness says, though, is she was not aggressive. she was not confrontational. so that would have had to change by the tiemt she got to mr. wafer's house because he's going to claim she was after him, she was attacking him and had to shoot her in self-defense. at least according to this witness, that was not her state. >> in your opinion, does that help his defense at all if he says or his attorneys present this evidence regarding her alcohol level as well as what appears to be drug use? >> i think it helps them. it doesn't get them all the way to winning on self-defense. he didn't know her. perhaps she was banging on the door. perhaps she was slurring her words. creating a picture of her as a little more scary than she would otherwise be. >> all right. i'm sure we'll be talking with you more when this trial gets started. thank you very much. >> thank, tamron. target now says it has fixed a problem that allowed credit and debl card information on as many as 40 million accounts to be stolen. the retailer says the massive

data breach involved shoppers who swiped their cards at target stores nationwide between november 27th, the day before thanksgiving, and december 15th. target says online customers were not affected by this. joining me live now, tyler mathison from cnbc. let's talk about this fix here. how are consumers supposed to have confidence in this when you look at the mass number of accounts that could have been compromised? >> this is one of the biggest data breaches we've ever seen, tamron. ranking right up there with one about five, six years ago that affected tjx, tj maxx, home good and the like. this one, apparently, was very sophisticatedly engineered because it didn't involve people who were using their cards online but rather apparently in-store shoppers who swiped their card at checkout through the card reader. then what the perpetrators -- and we don't know yet who they

were, whether they're domestic. a lot of these things have originated over in russia and that part of the world. we don't know, but what we think they did was took -- they basically were able to duplicate what's on the magnetic stripe on the back of your card. they usually either sell this data to other criminals who then go and make new cards that they then use for purchases, especially gift cards, which they can turn in for cash. that's how the scam works. apparently, potentially, up to 40 million people who shopped at target in the past three weeks or so could be affected. so watch your card statements very closely. >> absolutely. and with that said, beyond target, are we seeing retailers invest enough in security? as you pointed out, these hackers are becoming more sophisticated here. are retailers matching that? when you're talking about debit cards, for example, that's money coming directly out of your checking account. >> oh, that's right. i mean, if they can get access to your debit account, if comes right out of your bank account.

i think retailers are doing the very best they can, but obviously it is a cat-and-mouse kind of game between the criminals and the security professionals who try and stay one step ahead. a sophisticated, cunning criminal with with great i.t. skills can pierce the data network. we need to look no farther than edward snowden who was able to take a heck of a lot of data out of one of the most secure installationings at the nsa. so the criminals can get ahead and the security professionals try and catch up. again, my advice is obviously this is the time when many of us are out exercising our plastic pretty heavily. watch your statements over the next few months, and if you have one of those cards that allows you online access to your recent activity as you can with many, go online and check recent activity, particularly if you shopped at target between the day before thanksgiving and the 15th of december. >> all right, tyler.

thank you very much. greatly appreciate it. we're following breaking news right now. new mexico has become the 17th state to legalize same-sex marriage. the state supreme court unanimously ruled today it is unconstitutional to deny a marriage license to gay and lesbian couples. new mexico had no laws either specifically permitting or banning same-sex marriage. eight of the state's 33 counties have been issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples since august when a county clerk independently decided to allow those unions. and still ahead, the pennsylvania pastor who defied church doctrine by officiating his son's same-sex wedding holding a news conference right now responding to a church official who forced him out of the pulpit this morning. we'll have the latest. plus, the unanswered questions from the report recommending big reforms to the government's surveillance program. the most controversial elements remain in place. pete williams will join us.

and first lady michelle obama gets personal in a one-on-one with the reverend al sharpton. >> i want for the rest of america what my family has, you know? i want people to have the peace of mind that i have. because it's hard enough being a mother. >> we'll play more of the first lady. and join our conversation on twitter. you can find me @tamronhall and my team @newsnation. usiness ove? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪ or their new product tanked? ♪ or not? what if they embrace new technology instead? ♪ imagine a company's future with the future of trading. company profile. a research tool on thinkorswim. from td ameritrade.

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we are waiting to find out what the obama administration's next step will be after a panel advised the president to make changes to the nsa spying program. the report which the atlantic calls a rebuke to the nsa and vindication for edward snowden is being met with skepticism

from many inside the intelligence community while civil liberties groups are applauding the 46 recommendations made in the report. so far the president has only weighed in on one of the changes, rejecting a call for the nsa to have a separate leader from the pentagon's u.s. cyber command, possibly a civilian. in an interview, senator rand paul said the report is a sign the agency needs to be reined in. it went all to call for the resignation of national intelligence director james clapper. >> that clapper's line to congress is probably for injurious to our intelligent capabilities than anything snowden did. i think what our government is doing is unconstitutional. i really think that in order to restore confidence in our intelligence community, i think james clapper should resign. >> meanwhile, other lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are speaking out on the report.

>> he's already rejected putting the nsa under civilian head. i think that's the right thing to do. this agency is too sensitive. it does things that, you know, the military does better than the private sector. >> i disagree with the report. i think that the collection of the records, which by the way, has been held constitutional by another federal judge. >> the message is very clear. the message to the nsa is now coming from every branch of government, from every corner of our nation. nsa, you've gone too far. >> nbc justice correspondent pete williams joining me live. we don't expect to hear from the president until january, after vacation. he's said to be reading over this. in addition to this rejection of the nsa having a separate leader, we're hearing a lot of pushback on a notion that a

private company would hold all of this telephone data of americans. >> yes, and i think we'll hear more from the intelligence community about that. although, i think there's a fairly good chance that if the president doesn't ask for it, congress will seek legislation to do it. let's look at the main findings of the report. that's the first report, that the phone companies themselves, not the government, should hold this data. secondly, there should be a court order every time the government wants to check the records. thirdly, that the companies should be able -- this is the phone companies, internet companies -- should be able to reveal what it is that the government has asked them to pass along. and finally, as you've been talking about with the various members of congress, that the head of nsa should be a civilian confirmed by the senate. i think a feeling of many people in the intelligence community is that it would be would be devastating if the president followed all of these recommendations, that would be too many restrictions on the intelligence community, but that they can live with some of

these. i think there are people in the intel community who believe this whole idea of having the phone companies hold the records is almost inevitable. it's not without cost. it would slow things down. there are some complexities that have to be worked out, and it's going to be expensive. i mean in flexibility and in terms of money. congress is going to have to pay these money if it's going to ask them to hold this data for longer than they feel they need to for business reasons. >> one of the other recommendations that we're hearing a lot about is this notion of these back doors, what "the new york times" referred to as a potent weapon in cyber conflicts where some of the secrets that the nsa has been able to use to manipulate hardware allowed them to track and get information may not be available if this recommendation is taken. >> so it's an interesting policy question. if a piece of software comes out and the nsa finds some vulnerability that allows them to sneak into it, what should

the united states government of america be doing about it? right now the nsa says, oh, goody, here's a way to get into this stuff. what the report says is that's not the right thing for the government to do. they should tell -- they should make these things available to the software companies, tell them about it so that american software products are better rather than simply keeping their mouths shut and exploiting these weakness weaknesses. >> all right, pete. we'll see what comes in january when we hear from the president on this one. thank you very much. >> you bet. and new developments in the deadly drunk driving case involving a texas teenager who avoided jail in part because of his family's wealth. it's the affluenza case we've talked so much about. there's been backlash, of course, and prosecutors are trying once again to put him behind bars. plus, budget aftershocks after intense backlash. democratic senator patty murray indicated that congress is likely to restore the military benefits that were slashed in the deal she helped broker. what she's saying now.

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worrying about whether if they get sick whether you can help them. there is nothing more powerless than being a mother who can't help their child when they're sick. that's just to me untenable. but we now have the resources, but we have to be educated about it. we have to do the -- we have to reach out. we have to get signed up. and then we have to sign up others. we need young people signed up too for this because it's not just about moms and babies. it's about young people who feel invincible, right. >> that's right. >> who feel like, i'm never going to get sick. i'm healthy now. well, young people are the ones who are driving around late at night, you know, that can get into a car accident or slip at a club, you know. playing pick-up games and get a black eye. you know, cooking for the first time and cut a finger and bust an artery. health care is something that every american of all ages, particularly young people. because one of the things we learned from one of the women in

the group we talked to who had a nephew she cares for, she worries just as much because he wouldn't get health care because she knows that if he didn't get health care, if something happened to him, she'd have to pay for it, right? >> yep, yep. >> you know, young people are not just living out there on their own. if they get sick and can't afford it, who's going to have to come in and clean up that financial mess but the parents and grandparents who care about them. >> and you can hear more of the reverend's interview with the first lady tonight on "politics nation" at 6:00 eastern. still ahead, louisiana governor bobby jindal among a growing chorus of conservatives now defending "duck dynasty" star phil robertson after he compared homosexuality to bestiality. and if prosecutors delay a

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welcome back. "the washington post" reports today that federal prosecutors told virginia governor bob mcdonald and his wife last week that they would be charged in connection with the gift scandal that has plagued him, but "the post" says after an appeal from mcdonald's attorneys, the justice department has delayed the decision about whether to indictment them until next year. mcdonald admits receiving some $150,000 in gifts and loans from a prominent donor but says he has given it all back, even though he insists it was all legal. >> i've taken responsibility for things that i would have done differently, you know. i've repaid loans.

i've given back gifts, everything i think we did was compliant with the law, chuck, to the degree that i undermine trust in people, i have apologized. i think i would do some things differently. i think we need to change some of the ethics rules in virginia to provide more clarity and certainty for donors and office holders alike. >> joining me live, nbc news senior political editor mark murray. you had some people confused that, first, this was legal under virginia law, which it apparently s but now that the feds can come in and investigate and perhaps even eventually charge the governor and his wife here. >> tamron, my biggest takeaway from that entire "washington post" piece wasn't whether bob mcdonald would be indicted but when. one of the reasons had to do with the timing that one of the arguments bob mcdonald's legal team made. if there are going to be any kind of charges like this, let's do it when the governor is out

of office. he's out of office in january. terry mcauliffe is going to be the new governor starting in the new year. they wanted to say, let's take the politics away. let's have the new governor in position and then if you guys want to go ahead and go with your charges, then go for it. >> now, you have those who believe this was bound to happen when you look at virginia's laws here. from a political aspect, do you believe there's momentum to really push for reform as bob mcdonald is saying now but certainly wasn't the case before? >> well, it became a big issue in the virginia governor's race. you had both candidates, particularly terry mcauliffe, calling for substantial gift reform. tamron, one of the big stories out of all this and one of the reasons why this "washington post" story was surprising to people, was while it was pretty clear there was some type of ethics wrongdoing or allegations of and certainly bob mcdonald repaid the gifts that he'd given back, it's not illegal under virginia law, the fact that his wife and daughter received substantial and sizable gifts from a big-time contributor

isn't illegal. you can actually receive those kind of gifts and you don't have to disclose it under virginia's very loose ethics and campaign finance laws. it does seem according to this "washington post" piece that what's being pursued are federal charges, not state-based charges. this story had a lot of political reporters very surprised, just given the fact what we know about virginia's own ethics and campaign finance laws. >> all right, mark. thank you very much. well, as president obama prepares to sign the long delayed budget deal, one of its co-authors is now trying to distance herself from a key element of the bill. senator patty murray says the provision that cuts pension benefits for some military vets will ultimately be fixed by congress. on the senate floor this week, she said we wrote this bill in a way that will allow two years before this change is implemented so that democrats and republicans can keep working to either improve this provision

or find smarter savings elsewhere. the statement comes at a time of growing outrage by military organizations. juana summers is a reporter for politi politico. thank you for your time. the article also says many are shifting the blame to congressman ryan, who co-sponsored this with patty murray, saying this military cut, this pension cut was something he pushed behind the scenes. >> there is absolutely a lot of finger pointing on this particular issue. no one wants to have their name attached to the fact that they pushed any kind of legislative proposal that would take away money from american veterans. that said, this comes at a time also when the military has said it needs to cut back on its so-called personnel costs. costs like health care that those like defense secretary chuck hagel, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff martin dempsey, have said are overwhelming the department and have been for years. >> you can imagine some of the reaction after senator murray said that there's a fix and they could look for more sensible or smarter ways to find these

savings. i cannot imagine that rests well with these people who are looking at the pension cuts. they would logically say, well, how are you going to make up those savings and why didn't you do that in the first place for us? >> absolutely. there's a lot of confusion here. the savings in this budget deal. this is something that wouldn't take effect until 2015 or estimated to save roughly $6 billion over a decade. there have been a number of pieces of legislation in just the last 24 to 48 hours hoping to find other ways to make up that amount of money but still allow veterans to receive the same cost of living increases in those pensions. >> all right. well, we'll see if there's more fallout from this budget deal that will linger through 2014 and beyond. thank you very much, juana. >> thank you. still ahead, the pennsylvania pastor who defied church doctrine by officiating his son's same-sex wedding has learned his fate. he's been defrocked and is responding to the church. >> one of the things that i was asked was, what are you going to

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a growing chorus of conservatives are lining up to defend "duck dynasty" dad phil robertson. a&e suspended the star indefinitely for remarks he made about gays and african-americans. robertson compared homosexuality to bestiality and suggests african-americans were happier pre-civil rights. louisiana governor bobby jindal

is one of those now flocking to robertson's defense saying in a statement today, quote, the politically correct crowd is tolerant of all view points except those they disagree with. i remember when tv networks believed in the first amendment. former alaska governor sarah palin posted this picture with the "duck dynasty" cast on her facebook page with the quote, those intolerants hating on the patriarch are all taking on all of us. ted johnson writes all about the controversy in his piece for "variety." ted joins me now. thank you so much. >> thank you. thank you for having me. >> there are some people who believe that this was boupd to happen. one, because the family, they have talked more and more about their religion. that's a part of their story line. it's quite honestly a part of the reason families enjoy watching them. they're this tight-knit family, not afraid of showing their faith. but this then goes into this

ugly, dark area when you dehumanize a group of people and compare their lives to bestiality and when you make the assertion that african-americans were happy pre-civil rights. >> i would agree with that. i think it's one thing to say, oh, i have religious freedom to quote from scripture. it's another to take that a step further and say, listen, it's equated to bestiality or even terrorism. i think that's the difference in this case. i also -- you mentioned bobby jindal. he talked about how this is a matter of the first amendment. well, it's not a matter of the first amendment. the first amendment governs speech and the way that the government can actually regulate speech. it does not govern what a private corporation, in this case a&e, has in a contract with one of its stars. i suspect that these reality

contracts, which tend to be pretty iron-clad, really does have kind of a morals clause, which allowed them a situation like this where he can be suspended. >> part of the quote from phil robertson as it relates to gays, he said, start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men, they won't inherit the kingdom of god. it's not right. regarding african-americans, he said, i never with my eyes saw the mistreatment of any black person. the blacks work for the farmers. i hoed cotton with them. they're singing and happy. how do you feel about these remarks? i think that's where a&e is. i believe if these comments were kept to this is my faith, this is what i believe, he may still be on that show because no one wants -- certainly i don't believe any reasonable person would want you not to be able to stand for what religion you choose.

then you get into these areas again of dehumanizing people and equating them to bestiality and i don't even know how someone would explain the african-american comment. but if he says that's his view and that's what he's seeing, maybe he would have gotten a pass on that. >> i suspect that a&e, their strategy, which is a corporate strategy, was to nip this in the bud. it worked pretty much for food network back a few months ago with paula deen when it was revealed she had said some racist comments. that seems to be the going way that some of these cable networks deal with some of these reality stars and reality figures. >> it's also interesting here, and it goes back to groups that some people believe it's still okay to say vile things about. we know that there are other segments of society that perhaps if phil robertson had said demeaning things about, this religion or certain individuals, that he might have still been on the show. i think what's interesting here

is how this has now become a political issue. we see that more and more with television shows these days. i had someone say, listen, you've got a governor of louisiana, his state has plenty of problems. yes, the show is based there, but might he talk about some of the social issues affecting the poorest in louisiana and not chime in on a reality show. but these days, politics, tv all morphing together, whether it's a reality show or not. >> well, i think -- i suspect that governor jindal and sarah palin, they are really speaking to their base, which is kind of this disaffected group, especially this disaffected southern culture that feels like they don't have a voice, and this is kind of their way to lash out. that's actually part of the "duck dynasty" audience. however, i should say, one of my colleagues at "variety" just points out that part of the

audience of "duck dynasty" is actually the 18 to 49 age group and the 18 to 34, which tends to be a little more progressive. so i think you do probably have this mix of viewers who are both, you know, people relate to phil robertson and people who are laughing at him. >> you know, listen, as a southerner, i spoke with a southern 13-year-old yesterday and read the quote. her jaw dropped and said, that's terrible. why would he do that? so a 13-year-old kid who was a fan of the show reacting to it. and to your point about young people and perhaps a difference in views in some of us older folks set in our ways. thank you very much, ted. greatly appreciate you joining us. >> thank you. well, still ahead, developing news. a pennsylvania pastor suspended from the united methodist church for officiating his son's same-sex wedding has been defrocked. moments ago, frank schafer reacting to that decision at a news conference. >> i said to myself, you know, i just can't see them take my

credentials. what i did was an act of love for my son. i'm here to tell you that i will not give up the fight. i am still a minister in my heart. and i will continue to minister. i will continue to be a voice for the lgbt community. >> well, when he was suspended, schafer had been ordered to stop performing same-sex weddings or turn in his credentials. earlier this week, pastor schafer announced he would do neither. pastor schafer said he hoped the church would change its doctrine, which he called, quote, discriminatory. we'll be right back. how naughty was he? oh boy... [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex. [ male announcer ] fedex one rate. don'neutralize them odorand freshen.ash.

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there's a lot going on today. here are some things we thought you should know. there's no such thing as free lunch. at least not according to congressman jack kingston. take a listen to the georgia republican's solution for children in need of financial help. >> why don't you, you know, have the kids pay a dime, pay a

nickel to instill in them there is, in fact, no such thing as a free lunch. or maybe sweep the floor in the cafeteria. >> so kingston made the comments while speaking at a meeting at the jackson county republican party about the federal school lunch program. basically saying rather than give kids free lunch, they should earn the nickel or so that they need to eat. for decades, the fcc has allowed blackouts of broadcasts, nfl games and other major sporting events in markets where the home team doesn't sell out tickets. but that could change very soon. yesterday the fcc voted unanimously to begin considering ending the blackout rules. it would mostly impact nfl games since the nfl requires blackouts in markets that aren't sold out. even though they're only just considering the change, the nfl has already receased a statement saying, quote, it will strongly oppose any rule change. well, david goodfriend is a democratic strategist, chairman of sports fans coalition and

running the site sportsfans.org. you've been key in pushing for this change of the rule. i think a lot of sports fans want to give you a high five on this one, david. >> well, i want to give them a high five right back, tamron, because thousands of fans wrote to the fcc when sports fans coalition first petitioned to end the rule. some of the stories were quite compelling. there was the vietnam veteran who said, i suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder an i can't go to the game. so when the nfl blacks out the game, it doesn't persuade me to go buy a ticket. i just can't see the game. elderly people and disabled people wrote similar comments. i think what this really comes down to is we, the people, the american people, subsidize professional sports in many different ways. the fcc sports blackout rule is a subsidizing. yet, billions of dollars of our taxpayer money has gone to build stadiums. our federal laws prop up leagues

with anti-trust exemptions. if there's one thing that this symbolizes, it's that when the public gives a gift to the professional sports leagues, they should legitimately expect something in return. in this case, you've got senator john mccain, a republican, and senator richard bloomen that will, a democrat. you've got all five commissioners of the fcc saying, maybe it's time at last to stop giving this gift. >> well, this rule was adapted in 1975. it's interesting. in 2012 the nfl relaxed the rule and allowed teams to lift their blackout for at least 85% of tickets were sold. the league gave teams the flexibility to set their own blackout benchmark. you know, it is a source -- i mean, as a cowboys fan, we sell out every game, ha-ha. but there are some markets that that seems to be obviously more difficult and also when you think about how much tickets cost and the lack of access to seeing your favorite sports team because the tickets will cost

you, as we say in my neighborhood, a grip. what do you do? >> if you look at where blackouts were most prevalent before we started our advocacy, 75% of games in cincinnati were blacked out in 2011. over 35% in buffalo. guess what? these are communities that have suffered from unemployment and bad economic times. of course, people can't afford to go to the game, even though their taxpayer dollars built the stadium. here's something interesting, tamron. i want to point this out. those were the stats before we started. then the following year, we got this proceeding underway and guess what? this year, only one local blackout. is that a coincidence? i don't think so. i think the nfl hears us loud and clear. >> well, they say they're ready to fight back. we'll see. i wish i had more time. the new orleans saints fan behind me is wrapping me. we got to go. thank you very much, david. that's it for us. see you tomorrow. "the cycle" is up next. ♪

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if it's 3:00, america is talking and so are we. hold the phone, the group tapped to review nsa spying has a message for president obama. time to hit redial. i'm abby huntsman. we have the inside line on possible changes in store for 2014. fed fakeout. the crisis that wasn't. i'm krystal ball. remember all the warnings about dire consequences if fed free money ended? fires, floods, locusts, pajama boys. okay, maybe not that one. but the market went up. we'll explain what gives. mountain man. a candid conversation with the senator at the center of it all. i'm jonathan capehart in for ari, and abby's road will take us down the country roads of west virginia with a look at joe manchin like you've never seen him before. and pajama boy beats "duck dynasty." i'm toure. the silly hipster and the creepy comments from the "duck