mr. disney. we're all on a first name basis here. >> hmm. >> well, here you are. at last. oh, my dear gal, you can't imagine how excited i am to finally meet you. >> it's an honor, mr. disney. >> walt. you have to call me walt. disney was an old man. welcome back to "morning

joe." hoping you're having a great holiday. this morning we're looking back at our biggest interviews of the year. >> we begin with a man who is making waves on the screen this year as walt disney. but tom hanks is just as comfortable on the stage and this year he talks about his role in "lucky guy." >> had you decided to do this play before norah? >> oh, yeah. >> so, you were going to do this regardless. >> luckily, or luckily without any preconceived notion of what was going on, i'm very glad we exchanged the emails that said literally i'm in let's do it and i got an e-mail from her that said one word, yea. we knew it was going to happen. >> she kept her illness such a secret. how early did you know. >> that she was sick? >> that she was sick. >> 48 hours before we lost her. >> all of us who were close to

her got very, very little warning. and ten days before we lost her we had an exchange with her. we were supposed to have dinner two weeks earlier and she said i can't, i'm not feeling well. if y you need to know i'm in th hospital. >> norah was always petite. always fascinating. always very well put together. always ate three bites of the most delicious meal that was ever set in front of her. >> she lived a full and active life. >> full and well examined life. >> extraordinary life. let's talk about "lucky guy." it's just classic norah. journalism, a love story and she talks about wanting to be in journalism and she knew nothing. >> i have a line that's exactly

what norah thought. she always knew she would live in the city, she always knew she would work for a newspaper but didn't know which one. she ended up at the very literate or highly regarded "new york post." >> it was a liberal newspaper and she was among the first women to arrive there. >> she was a young girl that she complained she always had to go out to the airport and cover the arrival of the beatles. i knew her for seven years when he had said this. i said it took you seven years you were in that pan am press conference with the beatles. >> was she? >> yes. i went back and looked at the raw footage and i swear i hear her scream a question. she yells "sing something requests. >> paul says oh, no you have to pay his money first. >> i've known since i was a child i was going to live in new

york eventually and everything in between was an intermission. i thought it was going to be the most exciting place you could ever live, a place where if you really wanted something you might be able to get it, a place where i could be surround by people i was dying to know, a place where i could become a journalist and i turned out to be right. >> how about that. that's somebody who grew up in beverly hills, california, daughter of screen writers. >> the other thing is in new york as we all knew there wasn't a taxi that moved or a restaurant that opened or a scandal that began that she didn't know about before anyone else did. >> yes. >> i don't care where it was in the city, east said, west side, downtown, she knew what was going on. >> here's a fact, she was hot. a young norah efron in town. she was hot. >> so tell us about the

character you play. >> well macmcillary is known by everybody in the world. some say he's the most loved others say he was the most hated. he said writing a column in new york city everything else is second place. he wanted to be the guy that you read his column and you talked about for the rest of the day. sometimes he was. sometimes he wasn't. but i talked to, for example, i know some friends whose danielle adams worked in the police department in the public relations division. they said without a doubt my danielle adams hated mac mac mcillary which he would have loved. he wanted to be the be all and end all. >> that's a pivotal part of his

life. i knew him. talked to him a lot. talked to norah about liking, loving, hating. he was a complex guy who became more complex as he got into being a newspaper columnist in new york city. to see the play is a vivid, vivid portrait of who mac mac mcillary is. as tom said he's the kind of guy who would miss a subway stop to see if anybody was reading him. >> i had notes that was sent to me, a guy wrote a book that mcillary sent him a note, it's two sentences long but it's an obscene note i couldn't repeat it on taxpayer. he did not like the book. >> okay, that's fair. >> let the guy two and quickly scribbled a two sentence note. >> talk about the parallels about the end of his life and norah knowing that she was, she might be dying, she was sick.

>> norah first -- >> some people said this was therapy for norah, what do you think? >> i'll say sure why not. the work that i always did with norah was sort of like ripped right out of today's behavior not necessarily the headlines. certainly she felt some degree of kinship. she read his obituary in '98 and was fascinated with it. i'm sure there's some lines in the second act of the play that is literally what norah was going through at the same time as far as her doctor's offices and hospital visits. >> whenever i see a great broadway play i wonder how the actors do it generally. it's physically exhausting, twice a day, six days a week. is this especially, i guess, emotionally draining to an

extent? >> well there's 14 of us that share the experience every night. and it is a little bit like -- it's like the basketball tip off. you don't know where it's going to take you. but i will say the power of what george wolfe has been able to tame in all of us and also where the play goes from our first act to final curtain, really it takes through. there's no small amount of professional show business know how that goes on and you can tell i sound like james brown this morning. >> you look exhausted. >> i look exhausted. thank you so much. as i am. >> it's a great voice. >> by the time i get to 8:00 to 7:00 tonight on thursday, i will be pumped up and a little bit more relaxed and have done the things that an actor has to do. >> to get there. yeah. >> i don't want to be oprah here, but i think it is -- >> well, you know what, you lost

dozen of viewers. they turn to you, joe to be in touch with their feelings. >> we're down to three. i would ask you about norah and whether there was therapy for her, if you thought it was therapy for her. what about you? it would seem to me this would be a great opportunity for to you hold on to that relationship a little while longer. >> i will tell you no small part about wanting to do it was to hang with norah for the entire duration. i've done that on other gigs. it's a great way to spend time. no lie. i hear norah constantly, everybody had some very specific norahism. without a doubt the affection and love we had for her, the relationship i had with her does continue by doing the show. >> have you thought about closing night? saying good-bye to this part of your life? >> that will be a tough night for everybody.

♪ our thanks to tom thanks. still ahead, economist paul krugman, oprah, billy crystal and "breaking bad," dean norris. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

>> this is what you said in 2005 medicare and medicaid will sharply increase the deficit. the deficit may exceed 8% of the gdp in the next decade. that will make argentina a model of responsibility. >> definitely. why don't we try to argue the substance instead of playing god. the stauns. >> i'm looking at your words. >> substance. congressional budget office -- wow. joe, you know i actually didn't think it was a good idea at the time but it turned out okay when you challenged a nobel prize

winning economist to debate on the u.s. economy. >> those were good times. i think it was probably a safer bet than say challenging a nobel prize winning physicist. >> you did okay. you got that bright idea after -- >> in my defense because a lot of you say it's not the smartest thing to challenge a nobel prize winning economist. when i went to the university of alabama, i made it through three weeks of economics 101. >> three weeks? >> then i dropped the course. >> that seems like a stretch. >> my danielle adams called the day of the interview and said does he know he's a nobel prize winner. >> we were driving over to do charlie's rose and lewis turns around and says so why are you challenging a nobel prize winner. >> here's the answer to the question. you get the idea after paul stopped by our set. >> what can we learn that truly

applies to our situation. >> slashing spending when you have depressed economy is really destructive. it's counter productive in purely fiscal terms because it damages your economy, damages future tax receipts. spain doesn't have a choice. spain doesn't have its own currency. we do have a choice. we shouldn't be doing that. we should be sustaining government spending until we have a stronger economic recovery. >> when is that, though? whenever we have an opportunity we don't do it, do we? >> that's not true. people talk as if it's this fated thing. we squander surpluses. no we don't. we're doing fine at the end of the 1990s. then came along george bush who said we have a budget surplus let's cut taxes and fund two warriors. that didn't have to happen. it wasn't an invisible force majeure. so we actually, our track record if you take the longer term is not bad.

we tended to reduce our debt relative to gdp when the economy was strong. we tended to increase when the economy is weak. that's what you should do. this is not a hard call. as long as we have 4 million people who have been unemployed for more than a we're this is not a time to be worried about reducing the budget deficit. give me something more of an employment situation and i'll become a deficit hawk. >> over the past 12 years, 10 years, 11 years, george w. bush spent $6 trillion in debt, over the past four years, barack obama under the obama administration additional $6 trillion in debt. the president extended the bush tax cuts because tax cuts are keynesian and he believed and they pretty much said so if they don't extend the bush tax cuts back in 2010 the economy would go down.

it seems like we've thrown everything but the kitcheni sin. >> if you actually take a look at the numbers. you know, the thing about the american economy is you always have to keep in mind how big the thing is. you say well we had an $800 billion stimulus program. that's huge. but that was spread over three years and over that period the u.s. economy produced $45 trillion worth of stuff. when you do the ratio we're talking about a couple of percent of gdp. it's not actually a very big thing when you just had the worst financial collapse in three generation. we had policies that were not especially stroornng, a lot wea. this is not something that will

happen hopefully until, you know, a couple of generations from now. we should have hit -- >> you're talking about the 2008 collapse. >> that's right. >> you don't think we're facing what japan faced. you don't think this is -- >> you think this is cyclical. >> what japan faced was cyclical. it is cyclical. there's no indication or no hint. people look for evidence that there's some fundamental flaw one the u.s. economy that accounts for this and it just isn't really there. of course, we would like our work to be better educated but that was true in 2007 too. there's no sign that accounts for this deterioration. this is just plain not enough spending. >> i think we can begin to address our entitlement problem without putting on the breaks or putting on autand if we don't we leave ourselves vulnerable to increased interest rates, hurricane sandies, war, bond

markets where we put ourselves in vulnerable positions. >> we've seen that in practice you can say look i can say look if i could ideally say let's have a plan to reduce the budget deficit five years out, ten years out while doing stimulus for the economy. washington done work that way. if you spend your time talking about debt and entitlements are the big problem, the message that actually what we need to do now is promote jobs gets lost. we spent the last 2 1/2 years focused entirely on arguing about the long term deficit, entitlements and doing nothing for employment. that balance has to shift. >> we can shift it in a lot of ways. >> i want to clarify something you just said because what we've been saying here and one of the things that's frustrating to me when i go out and talk, i keep

talking about, you know what erskine bowles talks about, defense budget, long term drivers of a long term debt. i say you can do two things at the same time, you can spend -- first of all, do you agree there's a long term structural problem with medicare and medicaid especially over the next 20 years? >> yeah, there is. you got to ask the question why it is urgent we address that problem right now. i mean, yes, no question, if you take the past trends in health care spending and project them forward 20 years there will be a problem. so we're worried that we might have to have cuts in benefits later on because of this problem. a lot of the proposals out there are saying because we faced the threat in the future we may have to cut benefits what we have to do right now is cut benefits in the future. what exactly is that solving? why exactly, if the problem is we're worried about health costs in the year 2025 why exactly it is urgent we do something now

because we're not talking at this point about paying down debt. >> are you saying we don't need to -- >> we need to work on projects. >> i'm talking specifically about the main drivers of the debt, medicare, medicaid. >> where the math doesn't add up. >> we know something is going to happen. >> why wouldn't that be urgent? >> because it's not something that will hit right away. what we need to do on health care costs we need to find ways to deliver essential health care more cheaply. we need to control those costs. we can do that through a lot of things that are already in the affordable care act. pilot projects on different ways of paying for health care. attempts to establish more accountability in medical practice. we can try to have research into what health care treatments actually work which no surprise -- >> you and i both know washington, d.c. is not capable

of doing that on a microlevel. we saw that in '93, '94. we saw it in 2009, 2010. >> i think actually we are making substantial progress. >> is that not perfect being the enemy of good. we know the storm is coming in medicaid and medicare. we do know that. >> we think it. >> erskine bowles is basically -- >> no. the odds are that we're going to have to do something major although we don't know that. health care costs, growth has slowed in the last few years. you're making yogi berra predictions difficult for the future. the question is, should that be at the top of our agenda? >> by the way, just for people who have been watching this and wondering what we're talking about, you obviously got the entitlement programs. they are exploding over the next 20, 30 years because it's

demographics. then you got short term, when you talk about infrastructure, we're talking about domestic, discretionary spending takes about 11%, 12% of the budget. that's what both sides talk about over the next decade because they don't want to touch entitlements. >> so, your message is we need to deal with entitlements and also don't cut infrastructure spending. my message is don't cut infrastructure spending and then maybe we can deal with entitlements. >> my message is we got a coming collapse if we don't take care of our entitlement program. >> that's not necessarily true. >> i wish it were a long way off. >> i feel like we're talking about climate change. my god. >> it's very different. huge difference. >> long way off and may not be true. >> erskine bowles was bill clinton's former chief of staff he'll tell you we're ten years away on medicare and medicaid.

>> if we're going on this, climate change every year we don't do something we're putting 35 billion tons of carbon dioxide into taxpayer. what are we doing this year that will make it harder for us to deal with health care costs in 2025. we're not running up debt any faster than we should. you are saying we should lock in the health care changes now that we think we would have to make within 15 years. there's our againcy. it doesn't work the same way. that's a bad analogy. the budget climate change thing is one of the more destructive things. >> we need to make real cuts over the next decade. >> the next decade is not a problem. >> based upon rosy assumptions you're right. you're willing to take enormous risks. >> our downgrade. >> we had a downgrade. what happened after s&p downgraded the u.s.? our borrowing costs fell.

if there's one thing i'm not really afraid of in this world is the rating agencies. >> the euro is so week, the chinese is where they are. >> people like me have been saying for five years, don't worry about these deficit things for the time being they are non-issue. other people say imminent crisis. how many times do they have to be wrong and people like me have to being right. >> you're right until the day you're wrong and that's a bad day. >> coming up oprah helps bring a white house butler to life. we sit down with oprah with when "morning joe" returns.

>> what was the name of that movie, honey? >> "in the heat of the night." >> "in the heat of the night" with sidney poitier. >> sidney poitier is nothing but a rich uncle tom. >> all puffed up.

hat on your head. covering your ear. saying whatever you want. you need to go. >> what? >> get the hell out of my house. get on out. >> i'm sorry, mr. butler, i didn't mean to make fun of your hero. >> everything you are and everything you have is because of that butler. it was one of the most critically acclaimed films of the year, "the butler" inspired the true story of a white house butler that served eight presidents. >> when we started working together on "precious," i came in as executive producer because i wanted to lift that up as high as i could. he said to me, you know, i'm frustrated, i'm frustrated with you. you're frustrated with me? >> you don't say that to oprah.

you don't even wear shoe strings. how can you say that to oprah. >> he definitely did. i'm frustrated that i wasn't acting and i needed to do it. right? >> she was so magnificent in "the color purple." >> that was two decades ago. >> you were amazing. it was one of my favorite movies of that time. >> would you like to work for me, be my maid? >> hell no. >> what did you say? >> hell no. >> really. in that performance it's embedded in my head and you get frustrated that she's sort of doing her oprah thing and i want her to do my thing. so i stopped her. >> it wasn't like it wasn't one of the biggest things. >> to practice thing took up a lot of my time and energy. after "beloved" which wasn't

received as i wanted it to be received i put that away. the day job, as you know, takes up a lot of your time. >> how nervous were you going back -- >> i was nervous enough to take his advice and get an acting coach. >> how did it work out? >> it worked out. >> did you find an acting coach that said, "oprah, that last line really stunk." >> she came toe my house and spent, i said to her i had trouble crying. you wouldn't think i would. i empathize. when i read the script and saw there were some moments where gloria would need to go there, lee said call in susan, and susan sat with me for 20 minutes

at my house in santa barbara. i was balling on the sofa for 20 minutes. then i said i need a confidentiality agreement because i just now poured out my soul. i just poured out my soul and i didn't have a confidentiality agreement. she said good thing with that because you have all the vulnerable spaces and if you're vulnerable and can get in there, can you work on gloria and you can bring her up. >> so let's talk about the movie. the concept is amazing. you look at it through the eyes of the butler, the eyes of the son. and it's this ongoing debate about race relations in america. do we do it in incremental way. be more aggressive. look what happened over the past month two. >> trayvon is the emmitt till of

our era. >> in some ways we've come a long way in 50 years, in other ways we haven't. >> i didn't do the movie because of that. i did the movie because it was a father-son love story. it's universal. i have a 13-year-old son. i got the script. and, you know, he's a teenager. i say white he says black. i say night he says day. >> how old is your son. >> 17 now. i say go to bed. he says no. will this ever stop? this really was a love story. up next laughing until it hurts comedian billy crystal bears his soul. >> one of the great segments of this past year. i loved talking about it. >> different side of him. from the iconic deli scene in "when harry met sally" to losing

his danielle adams when he was just 15. we'll be right back. hey, we got our cards, honey!

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>> you never meet anybody, you never become anything and then finally you die one of those new york deaths that nobody notices for two weeks. >> how many of you actually speak english? show of hands. hands, the thing at the end of your sleeve. yeah. i'm working ellis island here. >> where do you buy your clothes from? >> why? >> i'm looking to have a kid, want know where to shop. >> i'm also known as benny the grow in, elmer the fudd and once as mr. phil levine. >> last night i made love to

this woman that was so incredible, it wasn't human. >> true love is the greatest thing in the world. except for nice mlt. when the muttton is nice and lean. so perky. >> some day believe it or not you'll go 15 rounds of who is going to get this coffee table. this stupid wagon wheel roy rogers garage sale coffee table. >> i thought you liked it? >> i was being nice. >> you know what the secret to life is? >> no, what? >> this. >> your finger. >> one thing. >> thanks, bud. you know something, you're the only one i can talk to. [ laughter ] >> you know all the lines. >> that's like an a lifetime achievement role. >> congratulations. >> a hell of a ride. >> been so much fun. >> look who is here. >> legendary actor, comedian,

billy crystal out with a new book, "still foolin' 'em." >> so your dad was a record store manager and he would bring comedy records home to you. >> my dad started my brothers and i to appreciate the great television comedians of the day. they were massively funny, but muscular comedians. sid cesar. phil rivers. "the honeymooners." even jack parr because jonathan winters was on. it was on at 10:00, 11:00. he had a great eye. laurel and hardy, not the three stooges. bringing home those comedy albums where you could hear a great person like cosby or

2,000-year-old man was my bible. you could feel the excitement of it. you could really glean from it and develop your own timing. >> unbelievable too. talk about what it's like. because i remember listening to bill cosby records and it's hard to believe in 2013, a comedian you put it down, you listen, and it was like better than watching on tv because you were in this room of your own making. >> you get this great excitement. unfortunately like you're in on it. when we did the audio book for "still foolin' 'em," i did most of it live in front of an audience. i'm so proud of it because it's an exciting thing to listen to, and for the people that have been fans it's like getting a live concert album. >> your dad passed away when you were 15 and you wrote that you

never felt young again after that. >> yeah. i don't know your personal life but if that's happened to you, you understand it's a right cross right to the chin. >> i can't imagine at 15, my danielle adams passed away a couple of years ago and people would talk to me and for about a year, year and a half i would sit there and smile. i can't imagine a 15-year-old kid -- >> it was sudden. it was out of the blue. so when i turned 50 i started making notes of a show that i was thinking about and i even called it "700 sundays" then. he worked two jobs sometimes three our only day was sunday. i calculated and that was the title and that was the broadway show which we're bringing back to new york in november. that was the most exciting year that i can remember was being here on broadway telling the

story of my relationship with him when he was alive and when he's not and my family and this amazing sort of journey from a little kid who got up on the coffee table to imitate his relatives to performing on the stage. >> let's talk about, like everybody that knew her, we loved norah. norah efron. find out in the book that the first time you read the script, which many of us believed like an instant classic, "when harry met sally." you didn't like it. your sfourns critique? >> a little bit of a stall. she and rob ryeiner was working on it for a while. when rob cast me in the movie i came in with tons of ideas --

>> the karaoke scene. >> and a bunch of other things. what was great about work with them and why rob is, to me, the best director to work with and the perfect director for this piece his sense of humor was phenomenal but his openness to the actors and letting us into the process and our rehearsal period and talking before we even started was phenomenal. all good things came out of it especially the orgasm scene. >> his mother is in the room. but talking and norah says, you know, the women fake orgasm. i said wait a second. they haven't faked with it me which is what harry says in the deli. meg says i should do one. i should fake an orgasm. like in a crowded room like in a restaurant with a lot of people around. yeah.

i'll have a huge one and then i said -- we cut to a woman an older woman and she says waiter i'll have what she's having. norah wrote it great. we go to do the shoot at the deli. meg is nervous, about to have an orgasm all day over and over again. >> he's now talking about the big o. we opened the door. go ahead. >> she has first one was a little tepid. she's nervous. >> yeah. >> the second one is like we're married 15 years. >> come on. >> then rob goes, i want you to do it like this. rob sits down opposite me. so i'm on a date with grizzly adams. then he proceeds to have an orgasm that king kong would be jealous of. he's pounding the table.

everyone is looking and laughing and screaming yes, yes, yes. then he finishes, they all applaud. he pulls me aside and goes i shouldn't have done that. i thought he was worried about meg. i said no she's fine. no, no i just had an orgasm in front of my mother. >> still ahead one of the most anticipated series finales in the history of cable, we talk with "breaking bad" stars dean norris and anna gunn. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're giving away pie?

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>> there's more money here than we can spend in ten life times. i certainly can't launder it. not with 100 car washes. walt, i want my kids back. i want my life back. please tell me how much is enough? how big does this pile have to be? you know, mika, we talked

about it, the series finale of "breaking bad." one of the defining moments on television this year, unbelievable. >> the show went on to win the emmy for outstanding drama series this year and anna gunn won the award for best actress. >> best show on tv. it's like a cult. it's basically brian cranston play as high school teacher who finds out he has cancer. who becomes a crystal meth dealer. tell us about your character. >> she starts out like walt who is a woman -- life through curve balls at them. they thought life would be something else. then they just ended up like a lot of families really dealing with bills, not a lot of money,

a surprise baby on the way, a son with special needs and she's just trying to get by and they are putting one foot in front of the other and she's just really somebody who tries to get through life by controlling everything. and then all of a sudden she has to deal with this whole set of circumstances that's thrown at her with finding out that, first of all, he has terminal lung cancer, then she finds out he's a drug dealer. the question is does she turn him into the police, does she run away with the kids. when she decides to stay and deal with the situation that's when it becomes interesting for her because she's very much like walt in that she thinks she's smart enough to deal with the situation, and that's both of their downfall really as a character, i think. >> wasn't there a big switch with skylar's character in being complicit what's going on with walt but then you can see through your acting you become

scared of this guy what he morphed into. but then walt really takes over the command and the lead and you can see skylar internalizing all this. >> yes. again, when she first gets into the crime, okay if we're going to do this, we'll launder the money this way. she doesn't realize what she's getting into. she looks into his eyes, we should go to the police and we can do these things to get out of it and he turns to her do you know who you're dealing with. >> it parallels "the sopranos" but every day family stuff. >> the season starts off and launches like a rocket ship. it launches like that and never let's up.

it's an intense ride. >> after that intense ride, it ends, you come over to new york and spend some time get down to earth. >> yes. i would like to. >> so many people i know say it's the best television show they've ever seen in tv history. over "the sopranos." >> great company. >> what do you think? >> i think they are right. obviously it starts with the writing. one of the best written shows i think ever and ben skilligan who is the creator and writer is a man -- the detail he attends to is unbelievable. everything. everything. from the costumes down to the cinematography.

>> did you ever see it coming? i remember when the show started we had brian cranston on here and everybody said "malcolm in the middle." he tells us what the show will be about. so you're going to die. >> yeah. >> you're a drug dealer. and i mean could you ever imagine -- when did you figure out hey this is a rising star i'm glad i'm holding on to it. >> everybody else thought this. they tried to sell this show to all kinds of networks and nobody picked it up. i knew at the read through i said to brian cranston, i said brian thanks for the five year job. the read through he was that character, he was awesome. he was unbelievable. he was great. we all knew when we read the pilot it was a special show. when we saw it on the screen at the screening we were like wow. we'll never match that. how are they going to write a

second episode and they did. how are they going to write a second season and they did. and it was awesome. >> now with this and ""under the dome"" you have two great shows. what's the secret sauce. how do you make a great show on tv these days? >> it starts with the writing and it's about characters. you have to have characters that people care about and if you have that i think that's what the show -- that's what makes a good show. >> these are two very different vehicles, cbs and amc. >> amc is a small intense show. it comes down to the characters. you either enjoy watching those characters or you don't. >> more "morning joe" in just a moment.

>> my heart felt message to all of you is start thinking about this now, do not leave before you leave. do not lean back lean in. put your foot on the gas pedal and keep it there until the day you have to make a decision and then make a decision. that's the only way when that day comes you'll even have a decision to make. >> that was facebook chief operating officer cheryl