now my heart's in two. >> that was obviously the brain child idea of one ben mayer, producer. i know, very good job. natalie, what else? >> arthur says, big poppy thrk is our freaken city. >> this is our [ bleep ] city. stay strong. >> i was there for that. i was like did he really say that? it turned out, it turned around a lot in the city and the team. one from steve casen, bat kid. have a good one. "morning joe" starts right now. morning, everybody. it's monday, december 30th. i'm just here on set with

everybody. the gang is all here. willie geist is to my right. he's mute. >> i have a microphone, i'm just working on other connections. >> we have best selling author of the u.s. army westmore who lives in baltimore. msnbc political analyst, harold ford jr., new dad. we'll get you a mic. harold's baby right there. georgia walker ford born december 22nd, is that right? >> yes. >> how beautiful is she? congratulation. >> how is your wife emily doing? >> good. you can't hear me, but she's great. >> i'll lean in. >> we have senior political ed

tor, sam stein. columnist for bloomberg news margaret carlson. matt lewis. >> good morning. >> let's get to serious news. we begin with a second bombing in russia. a city rocked by a suicide attack. 14 people killed in a suicide bombing on a trolley bus. 27 more wounded. it's a bombing on a train station that left 17 people dead, 40 wounded. the first caught on surveillance. the blast lighting it up. a female suicide bomber detonated it after she was stopped by a police officer. a separate car bomb friday killed three people 170 miles outside sochi. that's, of course, where the winter games are next month. they are approaching the

mounting questions about security surrounding the games. joining us live from moscow is jim maceda. good morning. >> reporter: hi. that's right. investigators are involved. a major rail and bus hub for southern russia. it's a city you have to pass through to go to or from sochi. it has a real value. investigators issued a statement saying today's bus bomb was carried out by a suicide bomber. nobody claimed responsibility for today or sunday's attacks which have now killed at least 30 and wounded 60. the strong suspicion is this was the work of islamists of the north caucuses. a region in south russia. it's a city of over 1 million. there are reports of residents

staying inside. they are afraid to go outside and go about their daily lives. they are calling it terrorist attacks. police are calling it that as well. public appeal from the chechen war lord made an appeal to kill civilians to try to disrupt the games. an event which, of course, president putin staked his reputation on. this wave of bombings, as you say, is getting closer to sochi, volgograd is 400 miles away. there was an attack friday that killed three, 170 miles away. people are worried. putin is certainly worried. >> let's talk about the olympics. russia has been reluctant to ask the united states for help with security. how concerned should people be

in what could happen in just over a month in sochi? >> it's 38 days away. we are seeing now that these forces, the islamic -- the islamic terrorists, if i can use that term, militants, jihadists are able to strike at will. they are making the point by hitting volgograd they can hit central russia as well. there are so many deployed in sochi, some 40,000, believe it or not and an equal number in and around the north caucuses. what's happening now is that these people can strike outside of those obvious places. it's going to make the russian security forces vulnerable as well if they have to start running and guessing where things are going to happen next. it is a difficult time and as we approach counterterrorism

experts we spoke to said it's going to get worse. the militants know that they are on a world stage right now up until the olympics. they don't -- people don't think they will strike, at least inside sochi or try to strike inside sochi, it could be a losing proposition. they certainly can strike everyone where else and striking at will. >> sochi will be locked down. jim, thanks so much. you were just there, by the way, in russia. >> the security we had in russia was different, it was for the miss universe that happened in november. there was private security and other security in moscow. the hotel where we stayed, obviously the security was different there because of the international women in one spot. they have their own concerns. while i was there, we didn't talk much about security concerns when it came to the olympics. it is amazing to see, as jim

points out, the fact that they have proving and testing the system or what systems russia has in place. now that they need to reach out internationally to talk, as you point out, to talk about what it means to global security and ask for advice in trying to coordinate and fight back. >> what else is going on, thomas? we have a busy morning here. >> we have a new york times article casting down on the benghazi attacks in september. al qaeda had nothing to do with coordinating the raid. in a controversial video made been an american pastor stirred up the fact that helped contribute. susan rice appeared on "meet the press" claiming it was easy to blame. now "the new york times" report says the video did play a role. instead of al qaeda, the times

investigation centers around a relationship with militias and an ak centric leader who is yet to be arrested. members of congress refuse to believe al qaeda was not directly involved in this. >> i think the intelligence, to a large volume disputes it. now, do they have differences of opinion? yes. do they have affiliations with al qaeda? definitely. >> al qaeda was involved. >> i think the intelligence paints a portrait some came to murder, some came to destroy property. some came to loot. some came, in part, motivated by the videos. >> there's no chance this was an al qaeda act if, by al qaeda you mean the organization founded by osama bin laden. now, try to understand some of the statements coming out of the united states congress. if you are using the term al qaeda to describe even a local group of islamist militants who

may dislike democracy or have a grudge against the united states. if you are going to call anybody like that, okay. >> that was the article's author you heard from. darrel issa, a critic of the obama administration's handling of that remained defiant. take a look. >> you said repeatedly it was al qaeda. the reason it matters is because you said the president won't admit it's al qaeda because it's an election year. after bin laden, it's been decimated and would make him look bad. >> al qaeda is not decimated and a group was there linked to al qaeda. there was an attempt to put a bright spot. maybe to cover up cia activities. they went out on five stations and told a story that was, at best, a cover up for cia and something that cast away the idea that there was a real terrorist operation in benghazi.

>> if you read "the new york times" piece over the weekend, the point is not that it was all al qaeda or video. it's a complicated story. it was some piece of it, anyway, it was the video. susan rice went out on the sunday shows and ripped for for months and months and months. does this change the way we look at what happened in benghazi? >> i'm not sure that we should have been as clear this was a centralized attack or motive behind the attack. we forget what it was like in benghazi. we forget what it was like in libya and the region at the time. we have pockets of power, you have people that rush to fill the pockets. we saw the same thing in afghanistan. you have groups claiming to be al qaeda or al qaeda linked. for soldiers on the ground, we had no idea what that meant, whether they were saving directions from al qaeda,

inspired by al qaeda. i think what the article does is shows how complicated it was, especially at the time you have massive vacuums of power and people rushing to fill them. >> let's go to matt lewis. supporters of the president said this is a smoking gun that supports susan rice, this new york times piece. this disputes everything that issa and the investigation put out there. what do you see as the impact on the story in benghazi? >> let's get to the clips you showed. bipartisan members of congress, not just republicans on the intelligence committee dispute this new york times report. they say they have access to cables and information that sources, you know, on the ground may differ. they have access to information that says al qaeda was linked and there was preplanning. having said that, look, i think part of the issue you have to keep in mind is that susan rice didn't just dispute the al qaeda

link, she also said it was a spontaneous thing that happened, spontaneously. that's a point of contention here. i think that the importance of the narrative cannot be under estimated, though. one narrative says it was spontaneous, about a video. in a sense, america is to blame because of the horrible video. the other argument says no, whether it's al qaeda or not, it's a battle against islamist terrorism. they target us on the anniversary of 9/11. president obama was not prepared. if you read "the new york times" article, it reinforces the concerns about benghazi and they talk about the turkish diplomat. security was lax on this 9/11. i don't think conservatives or republicans should be worried this is undermining their case. it's probably a combination of

factors, yes, it was the anniversary of 9/11, security was lax. certainly the response once the embassy was under attack, ambassador stevens life was in peril. security is not what it should have been. this shows susan rice was wrong saying it was spontaneous. it was not spontaneous. there's evidence it was preplanned. some of the people, there might have been looting, people that were spurred on by the video. i don't think it undermines it narrative. >> it's a relief they will survive the talking points. the answer is all the above, it's a total mess that is so often true. it seems like it's often true, there was a massive intelligence component that everybody was lying about for a month or two that created massive confusion around the early reporting on the story. >> i can appreciate matt's

points but disagree to suggest the narrative was to suggest america can claim. there's no narrative from susan rice, the administration or anybody in the democratic party suggesting that. it's an all the above piece. i tend to defer to people on the ground in these matters. it's comply katd meaning it's a complicated matter. hopefully we are dealing with other things. no democrat or republican wanted it to happen. we need to prevent these things from happening going forward. >> when you put it in the context of when it happened, a little bit before president obama re-election, the narrative did make a difference. he was essentially saying he did a good job of handling the war on terror, al qaeda was on the run. to undermine what happened and to say it was a spontaneous act caused by a video, i think is significant. it was islamist terrorism. >> we can go back and forth.

the president killed more al qaeda, he's certainly done more to decimate, i'm not comparing him to anyone. he used drones in a way that come consider controversial. to suggest he's not been successful is a stretch. no doubt, i don't think anyone argues about benghazi. >> there's still a lot to be discussed. as we look at the date line of all this, libya was a rats nest and we just got rid of moammar gadhafi. they tackled him after a long, vicious rule. this country was in the throwback of what it meant, the repercussions of being done with moammar gadhafi. there obviously is a big concern

over what's going to happen, at that time, to where libya was moving politically and what it meant to the larger scale of that region and how we saw the arab spring filtering out of libya because of that. what it meant globally, what was going on in libya and the good riddance of gadhafi. >> what it's continuing to show itself to this day. you look at ramifications of what's happening in iraq. look at the recent assassinations and bombings in lebanon. you are watching how this stuff is continuing to fester and show itself in so many different dynamics in the same thing you have laid out. that's where, again, i understand the argument about whether or not they call it spontaneous or whether it's completely planned and so forth. the point becomes that if you have -- where the groups feel like they can easily navigate,

plan and coordinate and attack. how these beginnings of attacks begin to disseminate is not a relevant point. >> thomas, i agree with you. i thought the bigger point to take from the article was how complex and unmanageable it is when we intervene in a country like libya. when we got there, what we were going to do was tons of questions running. the fixation on al qaeda might have distracted experts from more imminent threats. we had our eye in the wrong place, essentially. whether or not it was al qaeda or fielded by a video is secondary to the bigger question, which is what are we doing with our military? why are we going into these countries and what plan do we have after we intervene? those are the relevant questions. >> the biggest consequence of benghazi is the u.s. lost its

appetite to do anything. >> look at syria. >> we'll get margaret in on the next story. two days to go before health care coverage under obama care kicks in. according to medicare and medicare services, 1.1 million people signed up for coverage since october 1. it's far from the goal for the end of the year and 7 million by march 31. 975,000 people signed up in december compared to 27,000 in october. officials say 2 million people visited the website the day before the deadline. despite the increase, the white house is facing pressure following the botched rollout. supporters are urging the administration to pick a ceo to run the federal marketplace. a few names mentioned, former aetna ceo ronald williams, george hall vorson and the droe of kaiser permanente and jon

kingsdale. they are trumping the number as progre progress. if you give them a couple months, they will be where they want to be. >> this is the worst management problem the obama administration ever faced. why they didn't treat it like the manhattan project, the most important domestic achievements of the presidents. they all took their eye off the ball. nobody was in charge. the idea of putting somebody in charge, like you can't have somebody in charge? you can't believe it. you can't believe that the president would let that go that way. you know, these enrollments are encouraging. some day, it probably is going to work. it's going to cost more for some people and they are going to complain, but other people will be on. pre-existing conditions will be gone. even without obama care, we have two things going on.

one is, most people operate by deadline, not just journalists. they sign up at the last moment. every open enrollment period i have gone through, every single year, i wait until the last minute to choose, which is december 1st. you know, the second thing is that every problem we have with the health care system right now is blamed on obama care. it's not blamed on aetna or blue cross/blue shield. obama has taken on every problem with the broken system and feeling the wages of that. >> sam, walk through the numbers with us quickly. >> sure. >> we know where the white house's view, 1.1 million, it's under and below the number they set as their own expectation. where does the conversation go from here and the program go from here? >> the 1.1 million is the people enrolled in federally operated exchanges. we have to see the state number. it's probably up to 2 million or

so. >> just under 2. >> we have the medicaid, which is below what they projected. the trajectory shows people are signing up. you are going to have a dip in january and february and a spike in march when the total enrollment comes in. it's too early to tell. you need a good mix of people within the exchanges. you need healthy and sick people in the exchanges to balance it out. the other big thing i'm looking for is on january 2nd, january 3rd, will people show up at their physicians, the hospital and see the insurance they bought through the website is actually intact? there's been a lot of problems with the forms at the end of the system where you get bad data or missing forms? it's going to be a headache because they are going to have stories that pop up and become a narrative. they have to be on the lookout for that. it's trending in a better direction than october 1st.

>> the sign up are in the right direction. the question is that sam raises at the end. one, will doctors be paid and how does it work on the second side of it? it's why the ceo is critical. we look at the doctors networks, the point raised they are losing access to their doctors? will we hear more and more stories about that? it's lazor like. you are going to continue to put democrats in peril. you will hear more and more repeal bills. >> a lot of people enrolled, but what are they enrolled for? coming up on "morning joe," dr. nancy snyder will be here to talk about the top stories. our interview with singer/song righter graham nash and kathleen kennedy townsend joins us. first, bill karins has a look at

the forecast. hey, bill. >> good morning to you. we are going end this year on a cold note in the northern plains. we could start the new year off with a snowstorm. this could be an interesting week. we are starting out with cold temperatures. this just isn't fun. 20 degrees below zero is how it feels in minneapolis. this cold blast is going to move itself into england. let's talk about the snow. in the next 48 hours, this is mostly tuesday, a coating of snow. fargo, minneapolis, it heads toward the quad cities and chicago. thursday or friday, we watch new england getting the snow. it's plenty cold for all snow. look at the temperatures in boston. if you have travel plans, especially thursday night and then friday morning in new england, that could be the most difficult time for your travel trouble at the airport or on the road. for your forecast, monday, a fridged morning.

we are okay in the southern half of the country. rain in new orleans and new year's eve forecast looks cold. again, all the buzz is about potential for one of the first nor'easters heading up to new england. the christmas tree in rockefeller center, no snow right now. a big question mark toward the end of the week. you are watching "morning joe." we're aig. and we're here. to help secure retirements and protect financial futures. to help communities recover and rebuild. for companies going from garage to global. on the ground, in the air, even into space. we repaid every dollar america lent us. and gave america back a profit. we're here to keep our promises. to help you realize a better tomorrow. from the families of aig, happy holidays.

"stubborn love" by the lumineers did you i did. email? so what did you think of the house? did you see the school ratings? oh, you're right. hey babe, i got to go. bye daddy! have a good day at school, ok? ...but what about when my parents visit? ok. i just love this one... and it's next to a park. i love it. i love it too. here's our new house... daddy! you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen.

welcome back to "morning joe." let's take a look at the morning papers. we had a good commercial break. overseas reporting from germany, new details on the nsa intelligence gathering program. the spy agency intercepted electronics ordered online.

the agency would then repackage the products and send to the intended destination. 13 states raising their minimum wage. connecticut, new york, new jersey and rhode island voting to raise their rate by as much as a dollar. other states will see smaller increases. the federal minimum wage is $7.25. if the trend continues, most states will exceed the federal minimum wage by the end of 2014. >> there's a big piece in the front of the new york times saying democrats are going to put the focus on raising the minimum wage. ben, do you think they make progress? john boehner said it's bad for small business, republicans don't want to do it. $7.25, if you do the math, it's not a living wage. is there movement there between the democrats and republicans? >> most democrats do not say this. the house and senate, they think

it's useful. we talked to chuck schumer about this and he's reluctant to talk about it in the abstract. this is a concrete place that most americans say it should be higher. they are happy to force republicans to vote on it as many times as they can. >> think about those getting a job for the first time, teenagers. minimum wage should not be raised too much for that group. people that are heads of households, there's an argument to be made that we should raise it by $3 or $4. congress could find a group of republicans. chuck todd was on the show a week and a half ago saying the majority of tea partiers agree on this. if democrats don't demagogue the issue, but bring it together. >> look at it on a larger landscape. transitional jobs that might go to teenagers are going to people

that haven't been able to find work. >> that number has to go up for them. >> if we talk a minimum wage across the board, it's not fair to discount teens from having what somebody else might make because they are the head of the household? >> you put an impact on small business. i think you have to tier this. you and i, principally and conceptionally are in the same place. i worked in college for minimum wage. it's different than a 27 or 29-year-old or 40-year-old or 50-year-old as we are seeing working in the fast food environments. >> wouldn't it just encourage them to hire teenagers? >> age discrimination. >> perhaps it would. at the same time, they would love to continue to hire younger people in the places today. if that is the case, we have to deal with that. i don't think it's fair to say to someone in their 40s, trying to support their families that we are going continue to pay

them at this low rate here. perhaps we can provide other tax benefits. we can be creative to increase wages for those who need it most. >> don't call it affordable care act, it will never pass that way. >> we have to be more creative than we were. notice i didn't call it obama care. >> this is a situation where you could have -- where good politics meet up with good policy. the fact we have the wage for the average american has stayed flat over the past two decades. if you have a situation like this, it's not just economic inequality, it encroaches on the american dream and economic mobility. we have to think about where minimum wage is. we are going to have states do it. >> margaret, does the conversation in washington change next year on this? >> if you put the increase in

the minimum wage together with unemployment benefits, republicans are in what i think is the awful position of defending everything that's been done for the top 1% but not wanting, you know, the people that romney called the takers, the 47% to have a chance at the american dream. just to be cliche for a moment. but, you talked to some people at the upper end of income where we have this terrible spread, especially since the recession caused by the financial community where they have gotten their increases and it seems like it's never going to stop. there's no top to the wage that the people at the top are going to earn and yet there's no effort to help the bottom. you put these two things together and it looks so bad for republicans, i'm amazed they want to go out and fight against this because, as we say, there's

a majority of tea party activists who are for an increase in the minimum wage and people, senators in states with high unemployment and the high unemployment continues who want to help out with continuing unemployment benefits. >> erosion of the middle class. >> the fundmental problem is that the economy stinks. the fact that we are worrying about extending unemployment benefits beyond 26 weeks or we are worried about raising the minimum wage is an admission something much larger has gone wrong. year five of president obama's tenure and the economy isn't growing. >> the dow is up 16,000. pre-recession unemployment numbers are going to be met.

walmart employees are holding christmas time food drives for themselves when we have an economy that looks like this? it's actually doing a lot better. >> the point here is that if we are growing jobs, if companies are trying to hire people, if they are competing to hire people, then if we are being innovative and entrepreneurial, this isn't a problem. we have a down economy. hopefully it does turn around. there are other creative ways to help folks aside from just paying, say unemployment benefits. one, there's an argument to be said, if you pay them unemployment, they are less likely to seek it especially if it pays less than their job. there are other ideas out there, for example relocation vouchers. if you live in nevada, the economy is bad. you can move to north dakota, depending on your personal circumstance. we can pay somebody a lump sum

bonus to get a job. if you throw aside the free market notion that government shouldn't be intervening, there are more creative ways to make it work. >> are you in support of raising the minimum wage for at least some segment of workers? >> probably not. i'll tell you why, to simplify the argument, if i own a small business and can afford to pay $15 an hour, i can either hire two people and pay them $7.50 an hour or hire one person. if you raise the minimum wage, you can have this unintended consequence of hiring fewer people. that's the obvious concern. when republicans and conservatives disagree with raising the minimum wage, it's not because they are scrooge. they worry it will increase unemployment. >> when we raised minimum wage, it's had no negative impact in. >> what is the right number?

$25 an hour or $30. >> we are proposing $10 or $11. i'm not saying $25 or $30. your argument about being a small business guy or woman under cuts the argument about the economy. to suggest we should not raise the minimum wage for the hardest working people in the economy is not only disingenuous but suggests republicans are bankrupt when it comes to having answers. >> we are horrible people. >> you're not horrible. >> is it better to hire -- there's other really creative ideas. is it better to hire two people at $7.50 and have two people having jobs, not getting a lot of money, but having jobs or better to hire one person and

pay $15. >> naturally, i would love to see two. >> is it better to hire one or two? they have to get government benefits from you and i from our taxes. i want to find ways to pay two people $10 an hour or $20 an hour. i think we can figure out a way to do this. it's not either or, we can do both. >> thank you. i hope we look at things like the earned income tax credit, relocation vouchers, ideas put out. >> earned income tax credit. >> we assume there are two options, either a, let them eat cake or b, pay people not to work. i think there's creative solutions. >> i think they tried that before the olympics, the one-way bus tickets. anyway, never mind. coming up, sports. a win and you are in for two teams in the nfc. eagles/cowboys, a couple good games.

"morning joe" sports is next.

welcome back to "morning joe." brian shackman joining the table for nfl playoff talk. there were two win and you're in

games. the late sunday night on nbc. eagles/cowboys. philly up late. they don't get the two-point conversion. they got one more chance. trying to get in field goal range with under two minutes to play. the cowboys lose to a rival for the third consecutive year. you can't blame tony romo for this one. chicago bears leading the packers. another win and you are in. jay cutler lobs this one. brandon marshall there. 28-20 lead for the bears. packers answer on the next possession. eddie lacey bouncing outside. it cuts the lead to one. the score will remain like that until the final moments. >> rogers gets out. fl

flubs it. cob. touchdown, randall cob. >> under a minute to play. lobs it down the field to cob. that is the game winner. 33-28, packers win, they move to the playoffs. >> how can they not have a guy behind every single receiver. we remember how the ravens got the super bowl. no offense. i don't know how the broncos did that. we learned that lesson, willie. >> trying to stop it. >> the third fourth down on the drive. cob had two catches. >> they are dangerous. aaron rodgers is back. >> they are playing at home, too. the nfc wild card, the saints head to philly. that won't be easy. the packers, we said, host the niners at lambeau on saturday. niners are hot. good team. they went to the super bowl last year. cold, cold, cold. fun game. >> on to the afc.

let's start with the dolphins hosting the jets. miami trailing in the fourth. bounces off the receiver. picked off. that's ed reed, by the way. two minutes left to play after a field goal. picked off again by the rookie. jets win, 20-7. by the way, rex keeping his job. 8-8. cross the dolphins off the list. how about the ravens? baltimore trailing in the fourth. joe flacco looking for tori smith. the super bowl ravens eliminated. >> good riddance. >> it's all right, you got a super bowl ring. >> defending champions for another month. >> that's right. >> always the upside. >> the steelers are still alive. ben roethlisberger, early touchdown. 27 win for pittsburgh keeps them alive. they needed the chargers to

lose. it looked like it was going to happen, shockingly, playing against the chargers back up. this was for the win. the chiefs with four seconds left. the 41-yard field goal, wide right. the chargers stay alive. they go to overtime. they look like they are going to punt away. a fake. they get the first down. kansas city strips the ball, the game-winning touchdown, right? not so fast. the ref called it back. san diego dodged the bullet. they end up with a win, 36 yards. with that, pittsburgh's hopes for the postseason washed away. >> they would have been a tough out if they made it, mike tomlin did not give up. people laughed when he said to stay focused. they just missed out. the chiefs head to indy saturday. colts are the first in history to top 8,000 yards.

who is going to the super bowl? wes, defending super bowl champ, who is going? >> representing the afc north, the cincinnati bangals. they are going up against the green bay packers. >> wow. wow. that would be a good story. >> decent. >> aaron rodgers coming off. broncos and pats get the bye this week. >> when peyton plays in the cold, they are going to get it. snowbowl. >> patriots/green bay. a lot of packers fans on the set. police coe says 2014 is the year of going small. don't go away. we'll be right back with more "morning joe."

it is now the chief white house correspondent for politico, mike allen has a look at the play book. good morning. >> good morning. >> politico says 2014 will be the year to go small. what does that mean? >> on capitol hill and at the white house, we already knew they weren't going to do anything big. there's not going to be a grand bargain or tax reform or immigration reform. as we look ahead to the next couple months, they can't do anything small. a farm bill, which is congress giving away money, which yulsed to be easy for congress to do, they can't pass that. money to keep the government going, raising the debt ceiling, they are both going to be hard again. gun control, kind of falls in both camps. congress can do beneasomething neither big nor small.

republicans have a new excuse, a new reason not to go along with this white house. that's one reason that one of the president's biggest hopes for the second term, climate change is going nowhere. >> mike, immigration reform, obviously, has been one of the president's biggest goals. do you see no chance for movement on that in 2014? >> there's a slight window in the spring after republicans have had their primaries, the members aren't going to be worried about being hit from the right. there's a window where you could do something. willie, people on capitol hill just don't see that. maybe 2015. more likely, 2017 before something gets done on immigration. the way that could change is if republicans decide that it would be just too costly for them, either november 2014, november 2016. the moment the republican leadership isn't there, they don't want to give president obama the win, they are willing

to wait it out. >> margaret carlson, a lot of this year, the first half of the year is going to be consumed for the president taking care of obamacare. it's going to be a year, again, i think of obamacare, isn't it? >> it's hard to make that go away since it is his signature achievement and among the biggest domestic problem. at the beginning, you fix health care and go a long way toward fixing the economy. can i rewind? i saw a comment to finish on the minimum wage where matt asked, where do we go? $10, $25, what's the limit? i wanted to ask, what is the limit for jaime diamond who makes $18 million a year even though his company had to pay, jpmorgan had to pay a $13 million fine for various pieces of wrong doing?

there seems to be no limit at the top, but this effort to make a huge limit at the bottom, including blaming people for being unemployed when, as matt says, the economy stinks. it doesn't for jaime diamond, it stinks for people who can't find a job. >> matt go ahead. >> thanks. >> it's hard for me to defend jaime diamond, i'm not going to do that. but i would say this, look, if democrats care so much and liberals care so much about extending unemployment benefits and raising the minimum wage, why not fight for it? we passed a ryan murray budget deal a couple weeks ago. democrats, if they cared so much about it, they could have fought for it. if they want to extend unemployme unemployment benefits, find the money. republicans will go for it if it's paid for.

they don't want to extend it without having revenue. it's easy to beat up on republicans and conservatives and cast them as bad santa's and scrooge. if they cared so much about it, they should have fought for it during the budget deal. >> good point. >> see you in a bit. still ahead, graham nash opens up about his rock 'n' roll life. we'll be back with more "morning joe." [announcer] welcome to the all-new intuit quickbooks.

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welcome back to "morning joe." i guess the sun's not quite up. when does the sun come up? it's 7:00. shouldn't it be up? isn't that sad, i don't know when the sunrises. that was a dark look at my life. welcome back to "morning joe." thomas roberts here with us, harold ford jr., samstein all with us. josh rogan and nbc news correspondent, casey hunt. we have nine people on the show right now. look left and right, up and down. the brady bunch. this is a "morning joe" record, nine? surely we have gone ten. this is a record tieing nine

people. >> i'm alice. you are? just getting it out there. jumped on that one. >> she's in the middle. this ties the record. t.j., i asked, do you have a nine box so we can all have our own. they don't make that. we have two of us in a couple boxes. >> wes and i. >> willie and i are in the same box. there's a lot of -- >> get your own box, it's ease se when you get your own box. >> big time. >> a lot of big news. another terrible story out of russia this morning. russian president, vladimir putin is ramping up security again. in volgograd, a bombing.

20 wounded. it comes on the heels of a bombing at a train station that left 17 people dead and wounded 40. it was caught on surveillance. the blast lighting up the station's grand window, expelling a cloud of debris. russian officials believe a female suicide bomber detonated at a security station after she was stopped. a separate car bombing killed three people 170 miles outside of sochi. there are mounting questions about security surrounding the games. we touched on this in the last hour. this is a big concern, the olympics just over a month away, just over 40 days now. they have serious security questions to tangle with in that country now. "the new york times" article is casting doubt over the weekend on much of what we knew about the benghazi attacks last september, the 11th. al qaeda had nothing to do with

coordinating the raid that left four americans dead and a controversial video by an american pastor stirred up the emotion that helped contribute to the violence. u.n. ambassador susan rice said they were to blame. it was discredited later in congressional hearings. now "the new york times" report says the video played a role. it centers around a complex relationship with local militias. some members of congress refuse to believe al qaeda was not involved. >> i think the intelligence disputes it. do they have differences of opinions? yes. do they have affiliations with al qaeda? definitely. >> al qaeda was involved. al qaeda paints a portrait some came to murder, some to destroy

property, some to loot and some came in part to the videos. >> there's no chance this was an al qaeda attack, if by al qaeda you mean the organization founded by osama bin laden. try to understand some of the statements coming. if you use the term al qaeda to describe even a local group of islamist militants who may dislike democracy or have a grudge against the united states, if you are going to call anybody like that al qaeda, then okay. >> that was david kilpatrick the author of the piece you just heard from. they remained defiant on "meet the press." >> you said it was al qaeda. the reason that matters is that you and other critics said the president won't acknowledge it's al qaeda because it's an election year and he wants to say after bin laden it's been

decimated. >> al qaeda is not decimated. there was a group there linked to al qaeda. there was an attempt to put a bright spot, maybe it was to cover up cia activities. they went on five stations and told a story that was, at best, a cover up for cia. at worst, something that cast away this idea that there was a terrorist in mbenga sa. >> jeff, let's go to you on this. you have been covering this story on the beast. did the piece that came out change the way you viewed what happened in benghazi? >> sure. kudos to new york times for covering on the ground there and rounding up enough militant leaders to fill a marching band. it was a big project. first of all, if you read through the piece, every libya militia leader tells the same self-serving story, yeah, they were there. i didn't do it.

it was probably the other guy. i was out for a walk with my dog and saw something happening. there were conflicting accounts here that challenge the assertion that this can be an exhaustive tick tok of the events of that fateful night. we are never going to know what everybody did on the ground in libya. that leads me to the second point. it's journalistic knowledge that is hard to prove negative. how do you prove al qaeda was not involved? the times is exhaustive in how little we know about the groups. the branch to yemen, the link to aq, their link to al qaeda and the times, after describing this ambiguity conclude that is al qaeda was not involved. you know, how do they know that? my take is we have responsibility as journalists to be very cognizant and transparent about what we know. absence of evidence is not

evidence of absence. there's a lot of reporting out there. there's something called the jamal network run by a guy called ja mmal what used to be with a man. they have some links to aq in yemen. there's a rich tapestry here running around benghazi on the night of september 11. i would be careful saying they were or weren't 100% involved. nobody knows. >> to be al qaeda or al qaeda linked, that term is thrown around a lot. we don't know what that means exactly. that's part of the story, i think. if you can boil it down into a brief answer, it's hard, based on your reporting, if you put it together, congressional hearings, what happened that night in benghazi? >> right, what happened is we

had a very undermanned vulnerable base with few security officials dependent on a bunch of libyans who didn't like us anyway. there were a bunch of groups determines to attack us whether it was that night, two months or a year later. for whatever reason, that seemed like the night to attack. it doesn't really matter if they planned it for an hour, a day or a week. it doesn't really matter if it was a video or wasn't a video. we left our people without enough protection and we got caught. it had grave consequences. >> josh, good morning, harold ford, what have we done, what has the u.s. done since benghazi to ensure if you have one of those spontaneous or planned attacks that we are able to defend u.s. assets better than we did in benghazi over a year ago now? >> right. i think this is the key question.

again, this times report is backwards looking. what did susan rice say? that debate over the video and was it spontaneous or not was wrapped up in the come pain and susan rice's nomination to become secretary of state. that was a year ago. what are we looking for now? what was done since september 11th attack in 2012 and what needs to be done going forward. this is where we get to the hillary clinton part of the story, the more relevant part of the story, frankly. what we have done is increased money for embassy security around the world, especially in countries where they are vulnerable. that's a good thing. what we have also done is we have a review done by the state department, by, for and about the state department. this is put forth by the clinton people as the exhaustive review. this is where the politics of the benghazi issues are today.

that investigation was deeply flawed. we have done a lot of reporting on this. there was a lot of cooperation between the people in power and the people doing the investigation. it looked at certain parts of it, but not other parts of it. going forward, let's hypothesize that hillary clinton might run for president, that's what the benghazi discussion is going to be. what did hillary clinton do afterwards, before inside the state department to make up for the fact we did leave them twisting in the wind and we got caught and people died and was this investigation really the investigation that's going to tell us everything we need to know? >> casey, a couple days since the piece came out, benghazi is such a flash point for people to run to battle stations we saw darrel issa yesterday. what does this report mean to the conversation? it certainly doesn't make it clearer for either side. >> it really hasn't.

from the beginning, this has been a fight over the facts and to josh's point, why are we fighting over the facts? because it's been put in this explosive context that does wrap hillary clinton in. it's become clear that she plans to run in large part on her record and tenure as secretary of state, if she does run for president in 2016. this is an issue that gins up the right against here. it's something that you are already seeing, republicans some of whom worked for mitt romney, ginning up opposition research, pushing out material on this subject. i spoke with john mccain last week. it's one of the first things he said to me as we discussed what he thought of her run, i don't think he plans to back down on trying to get answers from her on this. i think, in this case, both sides are working with different sets of facts. this new york times piece was laying down a marker of what they found their set of facts to

be. it's something that hillary clinton's people will be able to seize on saying look, there was no link to al qaeda because that's what the piece outlined. >> we'll continue to watch. the story will evolve, especially if we get to a point where hillary clinton declares she will be running for president. there's more to come on that. 2013, you are marked by gridlock and government shutdown. there's no reason to expect much different in the new year. senator ted cruz striking a defiant tone from lessons learned from the least productive congress in history. >> this is a city where it's all politics all the time. i'm trying to do my best not to pay attention to the politics, to focus on fixing the problem. >> really? >> i know that's hard to believe. no one in this town has done that. >> you have had a couple months to think about the government shutdown strategy. now that it's over, are you prepared to say it was a mistake? >> i think it was a mistake for president obama and harry reid

to force a shutdown. >> john boehner said it's a republican shutdown. >> i can't help what other people say. i understand in the media, every day the media reported republican shutdown. >> come on, the only reason this happened is because you insisted, republicans insisted obamacare be a condition. >> republicans were compromising. repeatedly, democrats said no compromise, shut it down. >> 2016 watches cruz retained council to renounce his canadian citizenship. he was born in alberta and by canadian law, automatically becomes a citizen. the paper brought it to his attention. it came up when he met with donald trump. that was a recent meeting talking about where he was born.

he was big on the birther movement. >> it wasn't about his citizenship. >> you think? i don't know. some stein, put the citizen zip aside. >> why? >> if you want to jump on that, have at it. >> no. >> distancing himself from mayor ford as fast as he can. >> rob ford. >> no relation. the relationship gridlock, washington, i mean, is there any reason to believe this changes next year? >> slight reason to believe the changes. the whole reason for the gridlock this past fall, the upcoming imp limitation of obama care is a thing of the past. if you want to shut down the government or go over the debt limit because of obamacare, you have to contend with 2 million people signed up through the exchange and a lot more after

that. you are taking away health care as opposed to stopping the access of health care to people. you get the sense just talking to republicans in this town that they don't want to, you know, muck up their chances at this point. they have a better hand at this, i'm sure, than they did when the government was shut down. if they can ride the rocky obama carrollout in 2014, they are better off. i think the likelihood of a shutdown happening is probably much smaller today than it was in mid september. >> sam, you don't take seriously paul ryan's comment as they move toward the debt ceiling debate the republicans may ask for something? you don't think they are going to ask for something budget related? >> they might. again, i think what happened in the last go round was this was exposed as -- they wanted to create a scene and they backed down when the administration said no.

i don't really see why the administration, at any point would feel the need to negotiate with republicans at this juncture. i don't see republicans wanting to press it that much. >> there's obviously appetite among republicans to get something done. i think this, you know, this do nothing congress thing stings. you saw rand paul and corey booker having a colloquy on twitter. stuff on poverty and things that are less in the mainstream, republicans like paul ryan are trying to find allies to be able to say they passed some kind of legislation on something. >> matt lewis, what was the impact of the shutdown, lessons learned by republicans, people like you thought it wasn't the right way to go. what did republicans take away from that and how did they change in 2014? >> i think the shutdown was insane, counter productive and hurt the conservative cause. it cost ken cuccinelli the

election in virginia. i think the fact that republicans have been -- they are now afraid of their shadow, you can blame ted cruz for that, the way they roll over and allow the ryan murray budget to go through. it killed the sequestration. the only thing lowering the deficit. it had this -- the shutdown was harmful, hurt the cause of conservatism. i think it empowered john boehner. it's a good thing, ultimately. conservatives may not agree. john boehner allowed his party, his, you know, coalition to go through the shutdown in order to chase them. what you have today is a much stronger, more liberated speaker of the house, john boehner. conservatives may regret, may live to regret the fact they allowed the shutdown to happen. >> you know what's interesting, we are entering a fascinating time of politics where

leadership matters more because polls don't matter. you have situations like last year where you have the vast majority of americans who say we want a form of gun legislation and nothing got done. we are watching the same thing now. we'll see what happens with minimum wage, you have conservatives and liberals. we'll see how it kicks in and how leadership is going to kick in. it's about how you poll people, regardless of numbers, how you get the other side to see your rational. >> casey, given all this, give me reason for optimism in 2014. what is the thing that is going to get done that we didn't see coming? >> i'm not sure there's a line item at this point. i think there's a broad realization among members of both parties that the rest of the country is at the point where they want to throw all the bums out. it doesn't matter if you have a "d" or "r" next to your name. that's going to be the different

in 2014. both democrats and republicans realize they are getting tagged as the do nothing congress and as people who can't get anything done. i think the smartest thinkers on both sides of the aisle are starting to view it in that light. 2008 a wave for democrats. you have anti-incumbent waves and it's starting to brew. it's why democrats are pushing the minimum wage proposal. it gives them an opportunity to offer an accomplishment that says hey, we are doing this. we are acting on your behalf to people who feel alienated from the system. it makes it difficult for republicans. it's not a policy they are willing to support. democrats will be able to use it to put them in a box. >> especially if they can't get anything done. they can pivot off that to use to their benefit. >> it could.

>> you get a small business tax cut. they are not going to be huge. health care is going to rattle the business community and bring the democratic core together. it's part of the deal. >> thank you so much. as always, josh roggin, appreciate you being here to walk us through benghazi. matt lewis, thank you so much. coming up, graham nash reveals stories of his days on stage. the rise of e-cigarettes to troubling outbreaks of rare diseases. dr. nancy snyderman is here with what to look for in 2014 and her years. [ police radio, indistinct ] the comeback trail. there is no map.

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welcome back to "morning joe." nbc news chief medical editor,

our good friend, nancy snyder man. >> gentlemen. great to see you. >> gerald ford jr. and emily ford's beautiful girl. >> what a phenomenal name. isn't she stunning? >> walker is my wife's mother's maiden name. >> a stud muffin from congress and you reduce him to this. >> he's got a good wife. he's got a good wife. >> good gene pool, i like that. >> can i ask you about the flu season? >> it's here. >> what's going on. >> we thought flu was lingering and popping up in a couple south central states, it has spiked. states from alaska to louisiana to new york. the big news is h1n1 is a big part of it. it got a lot of headlines. h1n1 is part of this year's flu shot. if you haven't gotten your flu

shots, get it. >> it's not too late? >> it's not too late. it takes a week to ten days. even if you don't worry about the flu, the reality is, your shot is as good as anybody else's. unless you want to be flat on your fanny for two weeks, sick, sick, sick, it's not worth it and people die from the flu. >> what about if you are already feeling under the weather? >> if you have a cold, they will tell you to wait until you feel fine. otherwise, anybody 6 months of age and over, get it. >> it's a big deal. vaccine prevented 6.6 million cases last year. get the shot. >> and pregnant women should get it. the antibodies are transferred via the placenta. so, important, important. >> we are going rattle through some of these. i know you can handle them all. >> yes. >> the american heart association, american college of cardiology has an update in

guidelines of cholesterol. >> what a shock, we're overtreating people, next. >> told you. >> and i agree, affordable care act is still going to hit small businesses. it's here to stay. there's more good than bad. my concern is, as a physician who feels the pain from rural hospitals and physicians that feel they are nickelled and dimed, there's a lot of good in the bill of people fallen through the cracks. great for 24 and 25-year-olds. what is most disconcerning is what a -- >> what is the biggest fix that can be done to ensure affordable care gets to people that don't have it. >> there should be a single pair systems. you are seeing physicians in their late 50s, 60s and 70s saying you know what, we got it wrong. we should have taken medicare, expanded it and done it smarter, increase the bottom line for

doctors with 10% less than medicare, you know, docs just want to be reimbursed a fair amount for hard work. this is making the terrain much much much more difficult. >> you know what's interesting? you talk about your kids and the big challenges for obamacare and the rollout, how do we get the young and the healthy to sign up for health care? it was a dynamic prior to obamacare. >> right. >> that's the reason they came up with the plan. >> i made my kids sign up. i said it's your patriotic duty. the hard sell is, if you don't smoke, you don't drink, wear your seatbelt, you are fine and 26, why am i paying more than someone who is 65 and not taking care of himself or herself. it's for the economic brains. >> just brought up smoking. >> yes. >> e-cigarettes.

>> this is not one. this is a pen. >> interestingly -- >> good prop. >> e-cigarettes are now, i think the last month, the hip college accessory. watch, this went from a smoking cessation vehicle for people where you could get nicotine, get off your cigarettes and because it's not nicotine that kills you, it addicts you, it's the 2,000 chemicals that kill you. now, college boys think it's hip. >> are you sure it's not something else? >> we don't know it's safe. look, marijuana is here to stay. this just in. >> there you go. we are getting it all out of you. >> what's the danger of an e-cigarette? >> we don't know. some people think it's safe because it's just vapor. others are saying not so fast. we don't know if the delivery system could cause problems years down the line. >> i saw someone we know around

this table we know well at a recent concert -- >> smoking reefer? >> no, no, no, using an e-cigarette. >> okay. why do you keep looking at me? >> your eyes are up there. >> someone we all know and they were using an e-cigarette so you can utilize it in common space, at a concert hall or restaurant. >> i have seen it in the office. >> seriously? i think restaurants are -- i suspect -- >> i have seen people in restaurants. >> it gives off a vapor, so i'm surprised. it won't last. >> are you guilty? >> if bloomberg were still mayor. >> speaking of bloomberg, transfat ban, the fda requires them to phase out all transfats. >> it's going to happen. there's no reason. the fast food companies want to be ahead of this one. transfats are gone, gone, gone,

gone. i think they were the big story of 2012, '13 but they are gone. >> gone. off the face of the earth. >> no reason to exist. another story you talked about this year was angelina jolie, the double mastectomy. >> yep. >> there was controversy around it. >> not around here, around the one company that hailed the patent to do the genetic screening for the genetics. i, personally believe, no company should hold a patent to your dna and prominent people, everyone at this table should get his and her genetics done and put it up on the web. you know, coded, it doesn't have to be harold ford's name, but give them back so doctors can crack the genetics of tumors. if you take out a prostate tumor or breast cancer tumor, just the genetics of that tumor with vary

spot-to-spot. the more we learn, the more we can personalize things. she didn't do it for the press. she said, i have a bad family history. i got the genetic kit, i'm going to personalize it and do things my way, then she went back to her life. i have been an angelina jolie fan for a long, long time. before she was famous, i met her in afghanistan when she was doing something with the u.n. and refugees. she's the real deal. when she speaks, it usually has to do with something of importance. in this case, i think she put breast cancer front and center. >> what should we look at 2014. health story of 2014 will be -- >> personalization of medicine, your tumor is different than your tumor. health care is a right, but also responsibility to take care of ourselves and increasingly, immunizations are not just going to be for little kids anymore,

it's going to be for adults to put off illnesses, shingles, hpv is an anti-cancer vaccine and vaccines to ward off cancer. alzheimers is going to be the next big thing, too. the next big drug to stop it. >> gosh, let's hope so. dr. nancy snyderman. >> happy new year. still stuck in the antarctic. how the weather is hampering the rescue of the 74 people on board the cruise ship at the bottom of the world. "morning joe" will be right back. avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive sales event is back. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down,

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>> vanilla ice. well, after days stuck in the ice, a research vessel is no closer to being freed in antarctica. a third rescue ship has been called in. now that ship has run into trouble as well. sarah james joins us live from melbourne australia with the latest. sarah, what is going on this morning? >> reporter: good morning, willie. the crew of an australian ice cutter hoped to actually be rescuing the ship at this hour. instead, the passengers remain trapped. the end of their ordeal is

nowhere in sight. despite low temperatures -- >> the morning of the 30th of december -- it is snowing, a blizzard here. >> reporter: the day began with high spirits for the 74 passengers aboard this stranded russian ship, stuck in ice off antarctica. >> having a fantastic time. >> reporter: an adventure that appeared to be at an end. >> we are all in a good mood. they are only 24 hours away. >> reporter: the hopes were dashed this morning. the ice cutter specially built to plow through treacherous antarctic waters found the ten-foot ice too thick. this was the latest rescue attempt. a chinese vessel also tried and failed to cut through the ice. both ships remain in the vicinity and an air lift by

helicopter has also been scratched for now due to bad weather. >> we are going to bunker down mode and drink a lot of gin and tonic. you use the time you have as productively as you can. >> reporter: as the australian experts ponder what next, the crew of the ship say they have enough food and provisions. so, scientists keep busy with research and passengers keep the world up to date. >> we love you all and we are missing you. we'll be with you soon. >> reporter: now passengers have been here since christmas. now they are preparing for new year's eve. this will be yet another holiday on the ice. willie? >> as you say in the piece, the crew seems to be in good spirits. they are sending out tweets and messages where they are smiling. will it become a point where it's a crisis and they are concerned? they don't seem to be there yet. will they get there? >> it's a good question.

the thing is, with the antarctic, living in melbourne, australia, you learn to be very respectful for what the southern ocean and antarctica can throw your way. the reality is, conditions can go from bearable to catastrophic rather quickly. one of the things that's going to be really important and the meritime officials are going to do the best job to make a careful rescue attempt and make sure the people affected are safe. right now, everybody on the ship has food and provisions and they are fine. >> let's hope they get them out of there. thanks so much. coming up next, graham nash of crosby stills and nash opens up about his rock 'n' roll life in his memoir. "morning joe" will be back.

part of the baby boomer generation, you may have one of his records tucked in the attic. i'm not a boomer, but i'm sure i have it. crosby, stills and nash stopped by the show to give us a backstage pass to his wild and i repeat wild career. >> crosby, stills and nash, singer/song writer, graham nash is out with a book, "wild tales." >> i have had a wildlife. >> you look healthy, man. you know what? >> well, the truth is, it's like a peacock when you are between a bunch of turkeys. >> wow.

>> no, no -- >> so, kari ann, that was the first big breakthrough, wasn't it? >> in america. we had several big hits before in england. the song carrie-anne was going to be called mary ann. >> was it really? >> we just didn't have the courage to call it mary anne. >> i'm going to tell you, when she was a 17-year-old catholic schoolgirl -- >> what did you do to her? >> everybody wanted, you know. i'm just being honest here. she was a stunning looking woman. >> obviously you and joni mitchell together. you did something great with each other. it was really, just at the

height of her creativity. >> yeah. >> your creativity continues today. extraordinary. >> it was an amazing experience to me, living with joni for a couple years. i learned so much, particularly about song writing. she is a genius. >> what was the big idea you took away from seeing how she did it? >> that really songs could be catchy and could be viable and could be about important stuff going on. i spent many years writing too many pop songs that weren't really about anything profound. >> right, right. >> i learned from david, stephen and joni, you can write songs that were catchy, sellable but about something. >> you said meeting joni did a number on your head. what was that number? >> i fell completely, madly in love. it's affected me to this day. >> how so?

>> because, i realized i was alive. i realized i could really feel, still. i had gotten divorced from my first wife. that was an unhappy situation. i was free with joni. you know, she was an incredibly beautiful and creative woman and the fact that she wanted to be with me was stunning to me. >> yeah. >> but it lasted a couple years. >> and still, like you say, having an impact on you today. >> yes. >> let me talk about a group that had a big influence on you and an influence on the beatles. two guys a lot of people overlook, the everly brothers. sit and listen to what phil and don did back, god, 50, 60 years ago. >> i know, amazing. >> you can change the arrangement around a little bit, lift those voices and it's just

as potent today. extraordinary. tell me how they influenced you. >> i met them april 22nd, 1960. i was 18 years old. they were coming to manchester, where i'm from. two little kids with acoustic guitars, want to be in the business. we decide we are going to meet them. they are playing the free trade in manchester. the closest hotel was the midland hotel. we figured that's where they were staying. we waited on the steps of the hotel until 1:30 in the morning. they came out of a nightclub, slightly drunk. instead of patting us on the head and encouraging us, they stood and talked to me on the steps of the midland hotel for what seemed like 20 minutes. it changed my life completely. >> that's amazing. mika wants to dig into the dark stuff. >> well, it's a rock 'n' roll life. i'm going to show you how wild the tales are. there's a fight over rita,

right? >> yes. >> so, i guess that fight happens. >> that was between me and steven. >> yes, exactly. then how did he nurse his ego? >> i don't know. to his ego. >> i don't know. to this day i think he is upset about that. >> what are about the gorgeous sisters who are always naked. >> you are going to the dark side. >> rita coolidge and the guys. >> steven recorded the song called love the one you're with and he wanted voices on there. he calls me and david. no problem. we get down there and here's rita coolidge and her sister. unbelievable-looking women. no doubt about it. both steven and i both loved rita from the very beginning. i asked her out and said i would pick her up at 5:00.

steven said graham is sick. she ended up with steven for a couple of weeks. it was obvious to rita and i that we wanted each other. being an englishman and a gentlemen, there was no way i was going to kiss rita without telling steven first. we went to his house and he did not take it very well. he actually spit on me. he missed. fortunately. >> thank god he was doing a lot of drugs at the time. >> we were all taking drugs at the time. >> let's talk about the drug-fuelled egos and the melt downs and one of the quirkiest guys and also one of my favorites and an extraordinary songwriter, musician and the best one-note guitar solo in the biz. neal young.

dealing with him was like loading a live grenade into a vacuum. >> it's like if you are juggling four bottles of nitroglycerin. you drop one? >> why was it hard to deal with neal? he was always a quirky guy. >> that's true. he has always been focussed on what he wants to do with music. i have a great respect for neal. he follows music dedicatedly. sometimes that excludes other people. he's a hall of fame hockey writer. >> problems in the group, neal young, you write was enraged by steven stills's cocaine use.

>> he was not happy. crosby was spiraling down and neal was not a drugger. he was upset because it got in the way of the music that really upset neal. he was dedicated to the music. god bless him for that. >> you hear these songs today and it blows everything else out of the water. >> we are not johnny depp so it must be the music bringing people back. that's a thrill as a writer it. means that these physical bodies are going to disappear in a few years and maybe even during this interview. who knows. the music has always been the most important part of our relationship and we have always known that. >> wild tales, a rock 'n' roll life. we look forward to the music. more "morning joe" after this.

>> back to benghazi. the debate over what happened the dely day on september 11th, 2012. a terror attack overnight has

the government on the defensive a few weeks ahead of the winter olympics in sochi. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪

♪ i know they say you can't go home again ♪ ♪ ♪ i just had to come back one last time ♪ ♪ ♪ you leave home, you move on [ squeals ] ♪ and you do the best you can ♪ i got lost in this old world ♪ ♪ and forgot who i am

. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. a live look at new york city. thomas roberts and buzz feed. harold ford and sam stein, matt lewis and margaret carlson.

a second bombing in russia. a city rocked by a suicide attack and 14 people killed on a trolley bus. 28 more said to be wounded on the heels of a bombing at the city's train station that left 17 people dead and 40 wounded. the first caught on surveillance and the blast as you can see lighting up the train station's grand window expelling a giant cloud of debris. they believe a female suicide bomber detonated after she was stopped by a police officer. a separate car bomb about 170 miles outside sochi where the winter games are next month. they are approaching the mounting questions about security surrounding the games. joining us live is nbc news correspondent, jim messeda. >> it's a major rail and bus hub

for southern russia. a city that you have to pass to to go to or from sochi. it has a real value. investigators say today's bus bomb was carried out by a suicide bomber. no one claimed thursday which killed at least 30 and wounded more than 60 this was the work of islamists and insurgents from the region in southern russia. there reports of residents too afraid to go about daily lives. police are connectioning them to if you recall, the public appeal from the war lord that made an

appeal to kill that president putin steaked his reputation on and the wave of bombings is getting closer to sochi. only 400 miles away and there was an attack on friday that killed three and only 170 miles away. people are worried. >> terrible story. >> what else is going on. a busy, busy morning here. >> the "new york times" article is casting doubt on what we knew about last september. the 700 word article claims they had nothing to do with coordinating the raid and a controversial anti-islamic video made by american pastor did in fact stir up emotions that helped contribute to the violence. un ambassador susan rice appeared on "meet the press." the anger at the video was

cleavely to blame and the assertion in congressional hearings later on. now they say the video did play a role. it centers around the relationship with local militias and a cleric and they refused to believe they were not directly involved in this. >> they indicate that al qaeda was involve and they paint a portrait that some people came to forward and destroy property and some came to loot and some came in part motivated by the videos.

i tried to understand the statements coming out of congress. if you are using them to describe a local group who may distyke democracy and if you will call anybody like that, okay. they remain defiant on "meet the press." take a look. he wants to say it is decimated and it would lock bad. >> al qaeda is not decimated and a group is linked to al qaeda. there was an attempt to put a bright spot and maybe it was to cover up cia activities. they went out on five stations

and told the story that was at best a cover up for a cia and at worst something that castaway this entire idea. >> the point was not that it was all al qaeda, but it was some piece of it anyway. the video. that's what susan rice said on the sunday shows and she was ripped for for months and months. i'm not sure if this was a centralized attack. we forget what it was like at the time. you have pockets and what happens when you have these pockets of power being thrilled, you have people that will rush to fill the pockets.

you saw the same thing in operations where huh groups who were claiming to be al qaeda or al qaeda-linked. we had no idea what that meant. whether or not they were inspired. it shows the conflict many supporters have said this is a smoking fun. this disputes everything that the investigation put out there. >> first let's get back to the clips you showed. members of congress and not just republicans on the intelligence committee dispute this "new york times" report. they say they have access to cables and they have access to

information that says al qaeda was linked and there was preplanning. part of the issue that you have to keep in mind, susan rice did not just dispute the link, but it was a spontaneous thing. that seems too be a point of contention here. i think that the importance of the narrative cannot be under estimated. one said it was spontaneous about a video and in a sense america is to blame because of this horrible video. the other said no, whether it's al qaeda or not, this is a battle against islamic terrorism and they targeted us on the anniversary of 9/11 and president obama was not prepared. if you read this article, it reinforces a lot of the conservative concerns with what happened in benghazi including the fact that they talk about the turkish diplomat who said

that security was especially lax on this anniversary of 9/11. i don't think that condition servatives or republicans should be worried this will undermine their case. yes, it was the anniversary of 9/11. personal the response once our embassy was under attack and ambassador stevens's was in peril and the response was not what it should have been. this shows susan rice was wrong in saying that it was spontaneous. it was not. there is evidence that this was preplanned. some of the people, there might have been looting and people who showed up after the fact and it may have been purred on by the video. i don't think that undermines. >> the talking points will survive. it seems like bausically the answer was all of the above and

it seems like there was this massive intelligence component that really created this massive confusion. >> i can appreciate matt's points. the narrative suggested that america was to blame. i don't think any democrat suggested that. there was no administration suggesting that. it's in all of the pieces and i tend to defer to people on the ground. saying it's complicated and hopefully we get to the bottom of it and dealing with other things. no democrat wanted it to happen and no republican wanted it to happen. how do we prevent it from happening going forward? >> you put it in context of when it happened before president obama's reelection. the narrative did make a difference. he was saying that he had done a good job of handling the war on terror and al qaeda was on the

run. to undermine what happened and to say it was a spontaneous act caused by a video is significant. it was islamist terrorism. >> we can go back and forth and he killed more al qaeda. he has done more to decimate. i am not comparing him. he used drones in a way some considered controversial. to suggest he has not been successful there is a stretch. i don't think anyone argues about benghazi, but it casts a lot of things. this is a complicated issue and hope they prevent them from going forward. >> we look back at the dateline. you agree with this as well. libra was a rat's nest. we had gotten rid of gadhafi. it toppled the dictator after a long and vicious rule.

this country in itself was in the throw back of what it meant. the repercussions with moammar gadhafi. there is a big concern over what's going to happen at that time where libya was moving and what it meant for the larger scale of that region and how we saw it filtering threw out of libya because of that. what it meant globally. what was going on in lib yachlt the good riddance of moammar gadhafi. >> even to this day, you look at the implications and ramifications of what's happening in iraq and the assassinations and the bombings in lebanon. it is festering sho showing itself in the same type of framework you laid out. again, i understand the argument about they call this spontaneous

or whether it was planned or so on. i think that the point also become this is. if you have these areas and vacuums where these groups feel like they can navigate or easily plan and coordinate and attack, how these beginnings of attacks begin to disseminate becomes irrelevant. >> thomas, i agree. i think the bigger point to take from the color is how complex and unmanageable it is when we intervene in a country like libya. what we would do is tons of questions. the most interesting line is this. the fixation on al qaeda might have distracted experts. we had our eye in the wrong place. whether or not this was al qaeda and fuelled by a video is secondary to the bigger question. what are we doing with our military. why are we going into these

countries and what do we have to build. those were the relevant questions. >> people who didn't want to intervene, they are the biggest consequence. they totally lot of their appetite. >> look at syria. >> that's right. we will get margaret on the next story. two days to go before health care coverage under obamacare kicks in. they report a big surge in enrollment. 1.1 million people are signed up since october 1st, that's far from the goal of 3.3 million and 7 million. 975,000 signed up in december compared to 27,000 in october. two million people visited the website the day before enrollment ends. according to reuters, supporters are urging the administration to pick a ceo to run the federal market place.

three names mentioned, ronald willi williams, george hal vorson and jon kingsdale. margaret, the white house is trumpeting this as progress. they said they are moving in the right direction and if you give them a couple of months, they get to where they want to be. >> this is the worst management problem the obama administration has ever faced. why they didn't treat it like the manhattan project and the most important domestic achievement of the presidents, they their eye off the ball and nobody was in charge. the idea of putting someone in charge. you didn't have anyone? you can't believe it. you can't believe that the president would let that go that way. these enrollments are encouraging and some day it is probably going to work and it

will cost more and they will complain, but a lot more people will be on preexisting conditions and a lot of good things that we will know. even without obamacare we have two things going on. one is that most people operate by deadline and not just journalist and sign up at the last moment. every open enrollment period i have gone through, i wait until the last minute to choose, which is december 1st. the second thing is that every problem we have with the health care system right now is blamed on obamacare. it's not aetna or blue cross. obama has taken on every problem with a broken system and he's feeling the wages of that. >> coming up, new details on the surveillance program that might make you think twice before ordering a computer online. first bill has a look at the

forecast. record cold. a very active weather week as we ring in the new year. bitterly cold and a good thing we don't have school with the holiday week. these temperatures and we dropped down to negative 34 and that's cold stuff. we will talk about the stuff. we talked about them and one is the european and the american. a major snowstorm into friday. our computer model said a snow event, but not blockbuster. especially in the northeast, you could be dealing with a snowstorm. as far as the cold goes, it's very cold. by the time the storm exits us,

bitterly cold air and we are starting off the new year with a bang. it lookings like the cold air will not be headed your way, but the snowstorm for sure. avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive"

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break. overseas reporting for germany. new details on the intelligence-gathering program. the spy agency intercepted electronics online to manually install mall wear and other tools. "usa today," 13 states are raising minimum wage. voting to raise their minimum hourly wage by $1. currently $7.25. if the trend continues, most will exceed it by the end of 2014. >> let's pause for a second. this is going to be the they

said republicans don't want to do it. it's not a living wage. is there any movement between democrats and republicans? >> most do not see this and the house and senate think it's a beautiful thing. they talk about the issue in the abstract where most americans think it's obvious and they force republicans to vote on it as many times as they can. >> you think about those who are getting a job for the first time and the minimum wage should not be increased, but congress and democrats if they are serious could find a group of republicans, chuck todd was on the show and instead of a majority of tea party support,

increase the minimum wage. there is a coalition if democrats don't demagogue the issue, but try to find ways to bring people together. >> that number has to go up for them. >> you talk about a minimum wage across the board and i don't think it's fair to discount the teens because they could be the head of the household. >> i think you put put an impact on particularly restauranteurs. you have to tier this. you are now principally and con1e79ually in the same place, but a 19-year-old in college, it's very different than a 27 or 29-year-old who is trying to find a job or a 40 or 50-year-old who is working in the fast food environments. >> that encourages companies to hire teens and avoid hiring head of the household?

>> perhaps it would, but at the same time they would love to hire younger people today. if that is the case, we have to deal with that. perhaps we can provide other tax benefits. we could be create testify find ways to increase wages for those who need it. >> don't call the affordable care act. it will never pass that way. i would never have passed it as is, but we have to be more creative. notice i didn't call it obamacare. it's the affordable care act. >> it's the situation where you can have good politics meets good policy. the fact that we have the average american wage has stayed flat. if you have a situation like that, this doesn't encroach on the argument, but the pure

argument of the american dream and economic mobility. we have to think critically about where the minimum wage will happen in a lot of states regardless of the federal level. >> does the conversation in washington change on this? >> if you put the increase in the minimum wage together with unemployment benefits, republicans are in the awful position of defending the top 1% and not wanting the people that romney call the takers and the 47% to have a chance at the american dream. you talked to some people at the upper end of income where we have this terrible spread caused by the financial community. they have gotten their increases and it seems like it's never going to stop.

there is no top to the wage that the people will earn. there is no effort to help the bottom. you put the two things together and it looks so bad for republicans. i'm amazed that they want to fight against this. there is a majority of tea party activists who are for an increase in the minimum wage and senators in states with high unemployment and that continues who want to help out with continuing unemployment. >> the fundamental problem that needs to be addressed is the fact that the economy stinks. the fact that we are worrying about extending benefits beyond 26 weeks or that we are worried about raising the minimum wage is an admission that something much larger has gone wrong. >> the dow jones is above

16,000. we have wal-mart employees holding food drives for themselves. >> how do you justify them holding christmastime food drives for themselves. we have an economy that looks like this. it's actually doing a lot better. how can you say the economy was doing worse? >>. >> the point is if we are growing jobs and companies are trying to hire people and competing to hire people, if we are being innovative, this is not a problem. we have a down economy and hopefully it does turn around. let me say this. there creative ways to help folks and there is an argument to be said if you keep paying unemployment, they are less likely to seek employment if it

pays less than their last job, but other ideas are out there. relocation voucher is something. if you live in nevada, the economy is bad. you can move to north dakota and we can pay a lump sum bonus to get a job. even if you throw aside the free market notion that government should not intervene, there more creative ways than paying people not to work. you in support of raising the minimum wage for at least some segment of workers? >> probably not and i will tell you why. just simplify, if i own a small business and i can afford to pay $15 an hour, i can either hire two poem and pay them $7.50 an hour or hire one person. if you raise the minimum wage, you can have the consequence of hiring fewer people. that's the obvious concern. when republicans and conservatives disagree with raising the minimum wage, it's

not because they are scrooge, but it will increase the problem. >> when they raise the wage, it has not negative impact. >> i heard this impact. >> what's the right number? is $25 an hour enough or $30? >> no one is proposing that. we are talking 10 or $11. we can have that discussion. you are arguing it there about being a small business guy or a moment and only paying $15. the economy a little bit as well. we can have more in our economy and more things. to suggest we should not raise the minimum wage some of the hard of the work other people is not only disengenius, but maybe the republicans are bankrupt. >> we are horrible people. >> i didn't say you were horrible. i like the relocation idea. >> is it better to hire -- thank

you, that's a great idea and there is other really creative ideas, but is it better to hire two people at 7.50 and two people not getting paid a lot, but having jobs or person and pay them $15 if i'm a small business owner. >> naturally i would love to see two. is it better to hire one or two, but they still need benefits from our tax. i want to find ways to pay two people 10 or 11 or $20 an hour. i am not saying the increase alone would do that, but we can figure out a way. it's not either or. we can probably do both. >> i hope we look at things like the earned income tax credit like relocation vouchers and the ideas put out. >> lots of sbgs ideas and we assume it is two options. pay people not to work. >> up next, a private look into the kennedy family history.

kathleen kennedy townsend has photos from her grandmother rose's family album. more "morning joe" when we come back. bl

>> the kennedy family has been in the lime light for decades. kathleen keen dee townsend showed up from her private collection. >> former lieutenant governor from robert kennedy and kathleen kennedy down send and here to discuss. rose kennedy's family album from the fitzgerald kennedy private collection and 1946. kathleen, there some incredible letters in here. i'm reading one and britain obviously obviously doesn't have here. >> there was not an alibi. >> let me read. the kicker, i love the kicker on his letter.

i read and wrote this in the fifth. maybe dad thinks i'm alibiing and i'm not. hear dad and ed went down to the game and it must have been a pretty good game even though eddie said it was his trips that saved notre dame and rocked me from defeat. here's the part i love the most. here's something every kid has written. ps, do not forget dad about the tickets. don't think you will. it was putting them on to get the tickets. great stuff. >> there was wonderful pictures, obviously that my grandparents took all the time. the letters from the kids and also from my grandmother and grandfather are fabulous. they show how much they cared about what was going on.

saying make sure you study your latin so you get your grammar correctly. it will help you speak better. say your prayers at night. you may not think it's important, but it is. put some way to remember to make sure you say your prayers every night. i love this. it's wonderful. >> the images are striking. anyone who loves history -- i don't know where to start. but the thing that struck me most is joe jr., we don't talk about him at all and he was a stud. >> he was a stud. very good-looking for sure. there was a wonderful letter to pat, his sister, my aunt, saying i'm trying to find a girlfriend. do you have any ideas. please i'm going to try this woman tonight, i don't know if it's going to work. it probably won't and it never does. that's when he was in england. my grandfather thought my uncle joe would be the person who would run for office and run for president and he died in world

war ii. there is this wonderful remembrance book that my uncle jack put together called -- about joe in which he talks about he was the real leader of the family and they learned all their love and skills from him. >> it's emotional for you. >> very much. >> there has been a book or two about your family before. we got this today and it's a magical book. almost every page. if you like history, the letters and pictures are incredible. why did you all as a family decide to do a book like this? >> the kennedy library wants people to remember john kennedy and other members of the family who as you point out have made a difference in the country and to show that it just didn't emerge out of nowhere. it was a long history. my great grant father was the mayor of boston and despite thinking of the generation, jack kennedy, robert kennedy, ted

kennedy, it came from a deeper sense of politics and a family. also to understand how faith played an important role. this was a very catholic family who really understood the importance of someone serving those left behind and left out. that was important and you get that. you get the sense of competition and camaraderie. if you have a smaller family, it's more difficult to be in politics if you have nine brothers and sister, it's much easier. >> mark pointed out the pictures we have seen thousands of pictures of your family over the years, but there were multiple pictures in here that i have never seen. >> never seen and they are so personal. >> these are family pictures. >> two great citizens of massachusetts right here in this picture. hank greenberg and president kennedy and congressman kennedy. eddie went on to become the

baseball coach and the former red sox. the great ted williams. ted williams and jack kennedy. huge. >> hard to believe there is not a young mike barnacle in that. >> out of all these that stick out to you. >> i think you said so beautifully, you don't see joe. here's this lovely picture of my uncle joe who died. here he is, young and vivacious, filled with energy and strength and a wonderful future. it was cut short as so many people were during the war. >> your generation of your family has i think kind of a real stwlagz obviously great things are accomplished by the previous generation. your generation has done quite a bit and you have been elected office and other people have. the picture of you as youngsters are striking as well.

talk about your generation and how you feel in terms of burden and possibility. >> i wouldn't call it burden. i think we were all blessed to be part of this family. as you can see from letters from my grandfather and grandmother, they said learn well, study hard, you have a responsibility. i certainly would say that i learned from my father and mother as well. we were quoted saint loouk's admonition. those who have been given much, much is expected. that has been a big part of our growing up. they wanted us to understand our family, understand the history and take our responsibility very seriously. the word duty was a very big part of growing up. >> the book also should serve as a reminder to all of us parents and you don't have to be a parent actually. we have so much today on these

and on the web. the family pictures. >> and letters. letters are not. it's so -- i hope that young people pick this up. like a 2-year-old, i can pray to god someone will write me a letter. >> i think it's for people who are starting a family and this is how we can think about raising your children. giving them high expectations and taking them places. as you know, grandma, my grandma would take us to historical places around boston because she wanted us to know. as you know as well probably, teddy continued that tradition so that every year there would be a bus tour to someplace to make sure we you knew our history. what a great lesson for a

parent, in other words that's what i think in school. >> don't lose the pictures that you take with your cell phone. the book is rose kennedy's family album. ath lean kennedy townsend. we will be right back with more "morning joe." [ simpson ] remember how simple life was when we were little? ♪

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>> time for business before the bell. as the chief international correspondent at cnbc, you are following the story closely and all of us are leading into the olympics. what are your thoughts? >> nbc is the broadcaster and we take a bigger interest.

the most networks. it's going to raise a question of are people going to coachy and less turn out. a lot of american corporations have used the olympics as a sales event. they get to go to the olympics as a system for incentivizing people and are you going to see less of that? i covered the greek olympics. those were the first after september 11th. we saw participation because people were concerned about whether or not there would be a terrorist event. this is happening more than 400 miles away from sochi. washington, d.c. to boston and think san francisco to l.a. and that kind of distance. not in the same city, but there is a proximity there if you are traveling for overseas. those are the things we are thinking about. >> of course they are going to

have so much security there and it's not even subtle. >> will there be more security? it's not possible. we are already there. >>ed headlines are above peak levels. there two questions. does that mean another bubble? is it true for everywhere? >> no. it's not true for everywhere. the places that are back above the peak in this decade, places that didn't suffer that much. the san franciscos of the world. other area remain below where they were. generally speak, our real estate reporter has been reporting about increasingly more and more people are no longer under water, they oh, less than what the home is worth. that's being able to sell and move. when you get to the closing, you

don't want to bring extra money. the sale price is going to cover everything you owe. that has been getting better month after month. >> no deals for us in new york city. that is for sure. good to see you as always. more "morning joe" in a moment. ♪ should not all those presents make the cut ♪ ♪ no need to chuck, donate or burn them ♪ ♪ just pack them in our flat rate box ♪ ♪ we'll come to your door and return them ♪ ♪ gifts you bought but never gave away ♪ ♪ or said you liked but thought were cheesy ♪ ♪ you don't even need to leave your house ♪ ♪ we'll come and take them, easy-peasy ♪ [ female announcer ] no one returns the holidays like the u.s. postal service. with improved priority mail flat rate, just print a label, schedule a pickup, and return those gifts at a same low flat rate.

it's hard to describe, because you have a numbness, but yet you have the pain like thousands of needles sticking in your foot. it was progressively getting worse, and at that point i knew i had to do something. once i started taking the lyrica the pain started subsiding. [ male announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eyesight including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or skin sores from diabetes. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain.

>> everybody has their phones and they want to capture how hot you are and look at my life. >> it's a good one. >> i will say it once. twerk. >> paula patton was on our show. i said i will twerk with you and got up. i'm not quite sure it was technically twerk.

i will do my dance with you. >> it's good to be me. >> i twerk at work and twerk at home. >> i through up in my mouth. >> i had never heard of twerk until 2013 and i'm ready to never hear it again. >> joe is not here because he pulled a groin muscle. a toast to 2013 tomorrow night here on nbc. up next, what if anything did we learn today?

>> what if anything have we learned today? my mom's birthday. happy birthday mom. gay guys can't go to make up at 5 people 55 a.m. >> i learned i don't care who wins the playoffs. >> ten years and you can start complaining. georgia walker ford. congratulations. what a beautiful baby. awesome stuff. god bless. time for "the daily rundown" with the hardest working woman in news. kristin welker. is. >> a second suicide attack on mass transit in russia in less than 24 hours. 30 people are dead, raising serious security concerns before the winter games