have a bleeding condition or stomach ulcer, take aspirin, nsaids, or blood thinners... ...or if you have kidney problems, especially if you take certain medicines. tell your doctors about all medicines you take. pradaxa side effects include indigestion, stomach pain, upset, or burning. if you or someone you love has afib not caused by a heart valve problem... ...ask your doctor about reducing the risk of stroke with pradaxa. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. we have a lot of news and politics to discuss this morning. before we get to that, i'm going to start with an apology. last sunday we invited a panel of comedians for a year in review program. it's what we call our look back in laughter. but in one of the segments we looked at a number of photos that caught our attention over the course of the year. in that segment i asked my guests to provide off the cuff ideas for captions of the foe

toess we were seeing. among the images we aired was one of the romney family that showed mitt romney's grandchildren, including his adopted grandson, who's african-american. given my own family history, i identify with that picture and intended to say positive things about it. whatever the intent was, the reality is that the segment proceeded in a way that was offensive. and showing the photo in that context, that segment, was poor judgment. so without reservation or qualification, i apologize to the romney family. adults who enter into public life, implicitly consent to having less privacy, but their families, especially their children, should not be treated callously or thoughtlessly. my intention was not malicious, but i broke the ground rule that families are off-limits for that i am sorry. allow me to apologize to other families formed through transracial adoption because if we suggested interracial families are in any way funny or

deserving of ridicule, on this program we are dedicated to advocating for a wide diversity of family ls. it is one of our core principles. i am reminded when we do so, it must be with the utmost respect. we're generally appreciative of everyone who offered serious criticisms of last sunday's program, and i am reminded that our fiercest critics are sometimes our best teachers. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. i takbecause you can't beatrning for my frzero heartburn.n.. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years.

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welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. this week in national attention turned to new york city for a moment widely recognized was the start of something new for our country. no, i do not mean the whole countdown and ball drop in times square to mark the beginning of the new year. i'm talking about what happened hours later when new york city ceremoniously inaugurated its brand-new mayor, bill de blasio. his decisive, landslide victory has been hailed not only has a

mandate for progressive economic and soeshl cial reform in new y city but part of a larger shift in american politics. because he made a reality out of what had previously been a political pipe dream for democratic candidates in a major election. to run and win on a far-left progressive platform. now, new york voterers responded overwhelming to his campaign theme of a tale of two cities. he's promised to address the widening gap between the city's rich and poor with policies like these. >> we will expand the paid sick leave law. we will require big developers to build more affordable housing. we will fight to stem the tide of hospital closures. and we'll expand community health cents into neighborhoods in need. we will reform a broken stop-and-frisk policy. we will ask the very wealthy to pay a little more in taxes so that we can offer full-day

universal pre-k for every child in the city. and after-school programs for every middle-school child. we will not wait. we'll do it now. >> now, but maybe not quite right now because no sooner had he taken office then all of the day one items on this populist agenda got moved a little further down the list by development that demanded his immediate attention. he would first have to contend with the winter storm that cut a path across the midwest this week before moving on to the east coast. the blizzard dumped nearly 2 feet of snow on the mid-atlantic part of the nation. he had to clear the way for the rise of the people because first he had to plan for the plows to clear the ice and make sure the people wouldn't slip and fall. it's a reminder of the relatively mundane day to day work of governance, especiallily comparing it to the big

ideological questions of policy and progress that characterize a campaign. snowplows and salt don't sound as sexy in a stump speech as justice and e equality. but for a city turning a new page on the government that serves the needs of its most vulnerable, they tear tools to take the earliest measures of mayor's ability to deliver on those high ideals. this was photo that became symbolic of mayor bloomberg's perception as an out of touch elitest when a storm poumded new york city 2010. much of the rest of the city remained blanketed in nearly two feet of snow. he paid a political price with his botched handling of the snow emergency, caused his poll numbers to plummet. on the optics, at least, de blasio is off to a promising start. this was the morning after snowmageddon image for new york's new mayor. bill de blasio shovel in hand pulling a cory booker clearing his own sidewalk while giving reporters an update on progress of the city's response to the storm.

his performance on this, his first big test as mayor of the country's largest city, matters to more than just snowed-in new yorkers because there's a national spotlight on the new york mayorality. also the first big test of whether or not this waive of nascent progressive populism is just a passing moment or a growing sustainable movement of meaningful reform. if mayor de blasio is to take his populist promises from ideas to implementation, he'll have to effectively marshal the city's considerable resources of municipal government, 300,000 employees, a $70 billion bum et in service of his agenda. liberal reformers beyond the city's five boroughs will be watching the city not only as a test case for the populist movement but also for its possibilities because over the past four years the most consistent prevailing image of populism in american politics has looked like this -- the tea party, fiscally conservative, opposed to tax increases and above all adherence to a view that the federal government has encroached too far into the lives of ordinary people.

the beginning of the de blasio rather in new york pushes the boundaries of that brand of populism to embrace an alternative. whether it is providing safety and security, access to a good education, an affordable place to live for a snow-free street, there is a place among those ordinary people for good government that works to make their lives better. marc steiner, host of the marc steiner show on weaa 89.9 fm and founder for the center of e emerging media. lorraine miller, interim ceo of the naacp, katrina, editor and publisher of the nation magazine and author of "the change i believe in: fighting for progress in the age of obama." robert george, associate editorial page editor of "the new york post." thanks to all of you. >> thank you. >> i sort of teased there about the new mayor pulling a cory booker in that these images of actually being out with the people in the neighborhood, you know, clearing snow, but how important or rather how well the sort of image aspects have to

line up against the real capacity to deliver policy that is in line with what he says he wants to do? >> very important he passed his first test. because i think to be an effective progressive leader you need to show confidence. don't forget the lindsey storm of 1969 when scores of people died. that hit him badly. you need to show confidence. you need to show in terms of public safety and a whole set of other issues while he still stays true to his promise to repair a broken stop and frisk system and rebuild relationship relationships with communities. toward the end of july, a lot of people said how noble of you. it would be weiner and spitzer in this city. there was a moment. >> that happened. yep. that happened. >> i say this with humility. i've spoke on the people around

bill de blasio and i don't think he fully understood how important his campaign was as it moved forward. but he did have this very coherent, important message about tackling inequality and rebuilding a city for all pre-k, universal, is his signature policy. he will need to move. the good thing about bill de blasio is he comes out of a politics of community organizations, of mobilizations in this city that were under the radar for daek aides in bloomberg's new york. so i think the one thing i would say, melissa, going forward, being careful about using the word populist, progressive, but i also say we should never say that tapping inequality is a right or left issue. it is about right and wrong. >> so i love sort of the language you have laid out here around bill de blasio and the kind of excitement in this moment. marc, i have to say one of the joys that i have about living not in new york, living in new orleans, is, you know, i'm constantly pushing back on my producers that, hey, actually what's happening in new york is -- i know it seems like it's

national news because it's happening here and all of the media are here, but is there any evidence from your perspective, marc, that -- you ambassador live in the city -- what is happening in new york is actually indicative of a growing populist progressive movement more broadly across the country? in other words, electing a democrat as mayor of new york may be a little like saying it snows in winter. right? >> you had bloomberg. >> granted. granted. >> it's been 20 years since a democrat was here. >> i think, in jackson, mississippi, or elections all around this country, in our cities, progressives are growing. the movement is growing politically on the democratic side. as importantly to me are all the people around the country who are mobilizing in north carolina, in georgia, in baltimore, at home in new orleans, you know, that communities are rising up. what has to happen, we'll see fit happens, can that

progressive democratic movement that seems to be pushing the party, which clinton and everybody else to a certain direction, can that meet in the middle of all the people who are rising up around the country, demanding change? that's where we he'll see the dynamic. >> so this notion of the people rising up, this is in part why i wanted to put my finger on the idea that the most effective in terms of organizational capacity and in terms of impacting our government populist movement has not been progressive but conservative. we really have been the tea party since 2009 and when i think about populism occurring in louisiana, new orleans now, it's not huey long populism but tea party populism. >> and that strain, just as the populist progressive strain is pushi ining democrats to the le the pob you list, tea party strain is pushing the republican party to the right. what i think is going to be interesting, if you start seeing in louisiana, north carolina, and so forth is whether those

strains will actually start -- because those are carbon monoxide of the state where is you might see -- particularly north carolina where it's a purple state. you're going to see how those populist strains will clash and which ones will come out on top. obviously, a bill de blasio might possibly a few years down the road, you know, run for governor. he could win here. but in a lot of these urban areas that are in red states, it's not quite clear whether that populist strain is going to be able to win statewide. i don't think it will win statewide in texas, for example, at least not anytime soon. >> in north carolina, where our state conference chair, the reverend, moving with the moral monday, it is the coalition -- i think it's a social justice movement that is really bubbling up, that people -- there's a

need there. and he's felt that need and he's been able to mobilize people. the same thing in florida that we have with one of our local branches, miss ellison. they've got this huge school to prison pipeline that she worked with the school superintendent and the parole officers and the courts to come up with an agreement that we'll address. it's social justice issues. >> even the language of moral monday, right, this goes to your point about this is not a right/left issue but a right/wrong issue and part of the brilliance of that. stick with me. we'll stay on this topic. i want to talk more about the dream defenders and what's going on in florida and the universal pre-k, one of the preaspects and the stop and frisk. how identity and populism come together. that talks about protecting, even after eating and drinking. crest pro-health has always done that. and addresses all these other areas as well.

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welcome back. it seems to me what the populist movement as done is it has a language of what constitutes populism in terps of strategy and it is tax cuts, what the government can do to ease life for ordinary people is tax cuts. is that a reasonable populist discourse going forward for the right? >> it's tax cuts and complementary aspect is size of government. >> right, right. >> yeah, it's kind of -- it comes from that sort of don't tread on me sensibility. look, the belief is that if the, you know, average family has more money in their pocket to, you know, allocate as they would, that's -- in certain ways the best kind of freedom. so that is sort of the bulwark

of conservative language and the tea party. >> even how effective that message has been over the years, how to you come in and say what we actually are going to do from a left populist perspective is provide more services, which is going to require raising taxes on -- >> i think you begin by saying something that senator elizabeth warren has said so effectively, because she, don't forget, precedes bill de blasio in terms of being, you know, a leader of a populist democratic wing. which is that the system is rigged in favor of the powerful interests in this country and against the working families and people of this country, so i think a sense of fairness. i think there needs to be an aspirational sense, too, and in that is the signature program of bill de blasio, universal pre-k, which is commonsense investment in the future of our country. i think ralph nader and i have spoken about this, sadly there was the opportunity for some alliances between different

kinds of populism, because at its heart that should be a kind of any corporate -- not any business. >> right. >> any business but any corporate, not anti-wealth creation but i do think the right-wing populism of the tea party not only became so on setsdsed with an anti-government name but let's be honest. there is a racism threaded through the right-wing populism, which is not unusual to american right-wing populism, that has not allowed for coalitions that could be built on behalf of working people in this country against the most powerful -- >> so, listen, this is one of the great challenges. lit's back off from the contemporary republican party and go back to our history of populism where i think this question of race and racism having flit split to pen tshl populist movement is kind of more obvious and i think accepted and in fact in the democratic party wherever it's happening. >> was very, very strong in labor union movements as well.

>> that's what i'm saying. it was happening on the left in that there was this possibility of creating class-based movement where people who had similar interests ended up being split around issues like jim crow. that's why you don't end up with a labor movement in the south. right? >> that's part of the reason. so it's not just the right wing populism and racism, also left wing as well. >> not today. >> that's part of why i want to come to the bill de blasio point, because as much as universal pre-k is a signature policy, what allowed him to break through in this race was not universal pre-k but his stance on stop and frisk. >> he was a part of our march a couple years ago. >> yes. >> the solid march. he's to be commended for that. early on without any prompting. >> there is a little bit of an

irony here in new york, though, that de blasio has pointed bill bratton, replacing ray kelly, to the police department and one of bratton's biggest successes was actually expanding stop and frisk. he may have done it differently from the tactical point but there is an -- >> i actually, marc, for me this is the big challenge, right so, progressives -- we saw this in a certain way in the 1970s when we fist got african-american voter who is emerged around language of left wing populism and racial justice. they emerged. people are excited. then it turns out they often end up in bed with precisely those same, like, policing interests as their predecessor. >> what's going to happen with bill de blasio and other progressive mayors have to watch out for is this, so layered. in new york city like most cities there are financial interests in developers have huge power. they have what they want. when he starts talking about saying you have to have

affordable housing and they have to start paying for it, that's where this is going to come. can you fight that? that's all tied in to stop and frisk because poverty is tied into people with lack of housing, where homelessness is tied in into. it's all together. i think that stop and frisk -- i think the difference is also talking earlier about populism, a social jus cities populism, very different from -- >> yes. >> that's bill de blasio also -- and not just bill de blasio, lahtisha james, the first african-american city wide public advocate. but it's going to take -- we know this. elections are just the first step. he's been electricitied and has said this openly. he needs allies and others in the street pushing for racial justice, for police accountability, and for working with the very groups which helped elect him as well as the public education groups, as well as the community groups, as well as the labor groups. but there's no question police reform, police accountability groups that played a central

role. >> i want to pause because i think that's exactly the point i want to go to is this idea if we rest just on electing the right or the left people, that may be insufficient. we'll take a quick break. when we come back, ralph nader will talk about how we make populism into actual politics. [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap.

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♪ ♪ oh are we early? [ male announcer ] commute your way with the bold, all-new nissan rogue. ♪ the beginning of 2014 brought with it encouraging news that meaningful policy reform may finally begin to tackle the nation's ever-exmanding wealth gap. on january 1, a total of 134 states increased their minimum wage, bringing a happy new year to nearly 2.5 million low-income workers bringing the total to 21 states that have taken matters into their own hands while congress continues to drag its feet on raising the federal minimum wage. joining me from washington,

d.c., a leading voice on raising the federal minimum, consumer affidavit and author of "the 17 solutions: bold ideas for america." ralph nader, thank for being here. >> thanks, melissa. >> talk to me about how much this increasing minimum wage at the state level, how much of a victory is it for low-wage workers given we don't have a federal momentum yet? >> well, this minimum wage is the beginning of a progressive resurgence in this country, because as you indicated there's pressure now from a lot of people at the local level to raise the minimum wage, like san jose did with the students in california, at the state level to raise the minimum wage is going on around the country, and also pressure now on congress. so this is a very popular issue. we're going to win this issue. 30 million american workers make less today than workers made in 1968, 44 years ago, and worker

productivity has doubled. it comes in at 80% support from the american people, which means a lot of conservatives as well as people who call themselves liberalings and progressives. even mitt romney until the election year was for it. and roick santorum is still for it. we have here a great economic stimulus. $30 billion will be spent in the economy by hard-pressed economies. two-thirds of all the low-income workers are hired by the big corporations like target and walmart, which we picketed in connecticut earlier last year. and two-thirds with are women. of course a majority are minorities, including a lot of poor whites. so this is a huge coalition, and it needs a victory and will have a great spillover effect. what's really interesting here is that there's a conservative aspect to this. ron hinds is going to put an initiative on the california ballot and he's got a record of winning. in november of this year to raise the minimum wage to $12.

you know what his argument is? his argument is that walmart pays so low wages while the ceo makes $11,000 an hour, that they're pushing the workers on public assistance like earned income credit, housing assistance, medicaid, food stamps, and he says why should the taxpayer fund these giant corporations who are underpaying workers who were working their heads off? >> right. so that the key sort of argument act a reduction of the size of government, particularly around programs that are often unpopular on the right, that idea that safety net is actually being used to bolster the profits of the very wealthy who own these. but that said, typically -- as you were talking, we were looking at a lot of images of folks in front of walmart and other places who were advocating for the minimum wage, but i keep thinking the most effective tool that this country has ever seen for changing wage and labor conditions were and are labor unions. and those that have a really tough time since about 2009.

you recently wrote to the afl-cio around this. talk to me about the role of labor unions and whether or not you can strengthen labor unions in a way that effectively strengthens this issue. >> to show you how easy it is to get this minimum wage up to 1968, which would be about $10.70, only a few thousand workers supported by fciu have got an lot of this publicity, picketing mcdonald's and other fast-food chains. imagine if a million of the 30 million workers hit the streets, how much faster this would occur. this has huge popular support all over the country. a conservative worker in walmart is going to say, i'm conservative, i want to work for $8 an hour. doesn't happen. and so what we're seeing here is the democrats in congress are too sluggish. george miller and senator harkin, they have put this bill in after a little pressure from some of us. but they're not really pushing

it. and so i wrote richard trump, the afl-cio, like my fourth letter and said come on, take a real lead here, for heaven's sake. these workers are potential union members in the future. so we got a kick-start the sluggish democratic establishment in washington. and, you know, they're so stupid electorally. they could win the house back on this issue, preserve the senate. there are 30 million workers looking for a little help to feed their families for heaven's sake. we have the lowest minimum wage in the western world and ontario, where walmart makes good money, they have to pay $10.25 an hour. australia, it's $16 an hour and they have a lower unemployment rate. so we've got a real opportunity to galvanize the whole progressive movement and have spillover effects on err issues. >> mr. nader, stay with me because i want to get into exactly that question as to whether or not you can kick-start, as you say, the sluggish democratic side. we'll talk about part of that sluggish democratic side and how it feels like it's starting to

get kick-started because the clintons showed up at the de blasio inauguration this week. ♪ ♪

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clearer skin is possible. before the focus on bill de blasio signalling a new wave of populism, who might be riding that wave him? most notably one of the other political power couples on the podium that day, bill and hillary clinton. the mayor worked as regional director as the department of housing and urban development in president clinton's administration and managed secretary clinton's campaign when she ran for the u.s. senate in 2000. but even given their personal history, a former president and presidential -- potential presidential candidate aren't kind of usual suspects when a city is swearing in a new mayor. it's prompted some to speculate their show of support was political as well as personal. in a column for "the washington post" this week, writer dan balz says of president clinton's speech at the inauguration, "the former president was clearly

mindful that the democratic party of 2014 and of barack obama is not quite the same as the one he led in the 1990s and that one potential on stack until the path of hillary clinton's possible presidential ambitions is a primary challenge from the left. his embrace of de blasio's message was a deliberate step in the positioning of the clintons as they look to a possible campaign." marc, if the clintons are there waving their de blasio flag as kind of a progressive bona fide, what does de blasio -- obviously the clintons are democratic stalwarts but in a real way why does it benefit him to have them there? >> a, they're friends, obviously. they've known each other a long time. >> he asked the president to swear him in because he benefits from having clinton there as well. >> exactly. but i think what's happening here is also symptomatic of a split happening in the democratic party right now. a lot of the establishment forces inside the democratic party are really worried about the push from the outside,

whether it's de blasio or progressive wing of the party, pushing hard to ask questions, asking questions like is the way the path of america was structured today answering the needs of our country? no. tpp and naf tas so, there's this real tension happening. >> embodied by bill clinton, the hope who had that narrative but bill clinton was also -- >> deregulated. >> exactly. >> you saw the clintons -- you saw the clintons come to this i think because they see the energy, where the energy is in an ascendant wing of the democratic party. also on a small scale if bill de blasio is going to get his signature achievement, universal pre-k, through, he needs to show andrew cuomo, governor, who is not in sync with bill de blasio,

for tax cuts, not saying to the rich nest the city that, hey, you know, you can pay a lilt more, $173 a year, one soy latte a day as bill de blasio put it. i think if hillary clinton is going to run, it is a different democratic party in many ways and she needs to move toward the energy. i i'd like to see them campaigning for universal pre-k nationally. >> we still have ralph nader with us. obviously, mr. nader, you took certain critiques about the ability of a progressive populist movement to be electorally strategic. right? that is a central question. and whatever else bill clinton was as candidate and president, the man was incredibly strategic in terps of being able to manage sort of the realities of politics. so how, then, right, do we marry that sort of clinton strategy capacity with an emerging left

populism? >> well, he wouldn't rely on the clintons. the clintons put their finger to the wind and their rhetoric is very windy. we've been trying to get hillary and bill to come out for a $10.50 minimum wage. hillary talks about the the plight of poor women and children but won't come out for it. so maybe this program will help do that. but the clintons demonstrate the distinction between liberals and progressives. liberals like the clintons, they're not worried about nafta or the world trade organization. they're not upset by the military budget very much. they're go, go, in terms of militaried a ventures and militarizing the state department. they're not going after corporate welfare or demanding a speculation tax on wall street transactions, which would help de blasio enormously. they're not worried about even the the patriot act. the progressives are. and that's the difference. i think we ought to draw that line, and if you'll pardon me, melissa, i think a lot of the talk show hosts on msnbc can be

categorized as liberals rather than progressive ls. >> okay. yes. >> a slightly different tack on president clinton and his alignment with bill de blasio. i saw it as a natural fit. i mean, i worked in the clinton administration. i have a good feel for what the president is about. and i see this as part of what he stood for in his presidency and in his post presidency with the clinton foundation. i think part of what's happening here is as our social justice movement -- and i keep looking back at what's happening in the moral mondays in north carolina with our -- what reverend barber wants to do is to impact what the state legislature is not doing. and part of what that is is the strength in numbers. as he builds his coalition, he's going to have the numbers to impact the state legislature so that the governor is going to

have to say, okay, maybe i do need to consider what i'm not doing with medicaid, unemployment, all of that. that is i think the strength in numbers and moving -- >> pretty extraordinary coalition, right? one that includes lgbt folk, one that includes students, one that includes women, one that includes democrats and republicans. barber was our first foot soldier on this show and it has been extraordinary to watch whatever else he is he's interested in building movement as to poopposed to being a charismatic leader. thank you to ralph nader, who joined us this morning. >> thank you, melissa. i i hope you'll make a chart, a power chart, like which hosts are liberal and which are progre progressive. >> be careful what you wish for, melissa. you're right on, melissa. ralph nader and lorraine miller, thanks for being here.

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before helping to countdown the last seconds of 2013 in times square tuesday night, supreme court justice sonja society mire agreed to temporarily block the affordable care act's contraception mandate so that it will not yet impact a group of religious organizations including a network of homes for the elderly run by catholic nones. the nuns and other plaintiffs are already exempt from providing contraceptive coverage to employees under the affordable care act, but they claim that filling out the form certifying they are exempt is in itself a violation of their religious beliefs. here's their point. employees of exempt organizations can still get birth control coverage directly from the administrator of their health plan so the religious organization has nothing to do with it. but for that to happen, the religious organization needs to first fill out the form certifying its exemption.

the lead attorney for the nuns put hit the way -- the government demands that the little sisters of the poor sign a permission slip for abortion drugs and contraceptives or pay millions in fines. the sisters believe doing that violates their faith and that they shouldn't be forced to divert funds from the elderly poor they serve to the irs. the plaintiff has asked justice sotomayor to block the mandate and the fines while they make their case many the federal appeals court. the government responded friday arguing the plaintiffs cannot claim that filling out the form violates their religious beliefs because their insurance administrator will be providing birth control despite the religious objections not because of them. the government also noted that in this case the religious group's insurance administrator is itself also exempt from the mandate and will not have to provide birth control anyway. but if as the government put it, the nuns can solve their problems themselves by declaring their religious xemings with the stroke of their own pen. joining us from washington, d.c. is jay engoff the first director

of implementation for the affordable care act at hhs and now a partner with the d.c. law firm mary and scalet. at the table, robert reyes, attorney and columnist for "usa today." jay, by your understanding, do the nuns in this particular case actually have standing? and is this different from the hobby lobby case? >> i don't believe they do have standing and it is different from the hobby lobby case. i hate to disagree with the little sisters of the poor. they're the plaintiffs but i think they're being unreasonable because the position they take is simplify signing a certification saying they've got a religious objection to providing health coverage which is guaranteed by the affordable care act, that is a burden on their religion. i just think that's unreasonable. the affordable care act guarantees women insurance coverage that covers

contracepti contraceptives. what the little sisters of the poor are saying is not only that we don't want to them but we don't want anyone to cover them. the irony is their insurer is a religious organization thairs so that there's no way they would provide that coverage anyway. i don't think they have standing to begin with. as far as the hobby lobby case is concerned, that's another very important case and i think that's more dangerous than this. there's a law that says that person guarantees persons exercised religion. what the hobby lobby is saying is that i, the corporation, the hobby lobby, is a person just like any individual, and that this corporation, the hobby lobby, has rights to religious expression just like an individual. that's a very dane rouse precedent. it would be an expansion of corporate rights and ironically at the same time the supreme court's trying to restrict corporate responsibilities. >> all right. so hold for me for a second.

i really appreciate that, jay, because it's such a clear way of setting out what these challs are. raul, i want to come to you on this because it does feel to me like this question of contraception has become sort of the flashpoint for aca, and just in case anybody doesn't know, aca is obamacare, they're the same thing, such branding issue, right? but that the flashpoint issue has become contraception, reproductive rights. i was almost surprised how important this has become because it is still a relatively small amount of the total health care that americans receive. >> and the vast majority of americans this case with little sisters of the poor it will not affect them. but where there is is very rel rant to people, that the way this argument continually is reframed in the public eye as an assault on religious freedom, as an assault on religious liberty. two things on this case. one, sonia sotomayor weighed in on this case and gave them the temporary injunction only because as a justice she is in charge of the tenth circuit,

which covers most of the western states. so she is not necessarily taking any position on this case. we have no idea what her position is on the merits. it's going to go to the full court. it's already -- her importance has been a little overstated. secondly, as you said, what they're objecting to in this instance, they're objecting to opting out of what they object to. so when you push aside all legal arguments and just frame it that way, the aca in this sense, it's not curtailing anyone's religious freedom. it enhances that. not only do the religious groups get the exemptions, churches, but tallas groups in the middle that have some religious affiliation. the government is giving them a way to be, say, a conscientious objector, say we don't want to participate, we decline. they're even objecting to that. so in that sense their position is very logical and i'm glad it was brought up. >> within catholicism, though, there is in this idea that, you know, if you are sort of on party -- party to something that

you see as basically sinful, you are in a sense being part of that, which is the core of their argument. >> i just want to point out that your point, raul, that we don't know exactly how sotomayor would rule is it's certainly true, but it's also true that when we look at the religious freedom cases, this is the one place where this court has not been divided, where, in fact, they've been giving us 8-0 and 9-0 decisions. it is interesting to me, although i certainly don't think it's definitive that every member of the court is either catholic or jewish. right? so my bet is that part of what's going on there is they are still members of religious beliefs that in many ways are still relatively marginalized within the american context and may have been brought up with a sense of -- like the need to protect those freedoms in a way that somebody who's a methodist, for example -- >> it is a legitimate protection of minoriy noergt rights. >> exactly. it's worth stepping back talking about minority rights, stepping back and looking that the court

as the 1% court because there was an interesting reference to the hobby lobby and how that hinges on corporations are persons. coming out of -- as a consequence of -- it follows naturally from a very destructive decision, citizens united. and if corporations are people, they bleed, and they don't. in any case, this is a court that has basically gutted corporate responsibility, workers' right, and enhanced corporate power. so we may see a very interesting decision in that case but in terms of representing the people of this country, the court is a 1% court at the moment and the roberts court, by the way, will talk about this, i know, but perhaps one of the real damaging decisions for the aca is the medicaid decision, allowing states to opt out of providing for their most vulnerable. i mean, a stick in the eye to the most vulnerable -- >> this is dangerous.

i agree with you. i think what this has to do with, a, what you were talking about kashgs trina, which is very scary, which is not taking -- one step further. >> exactly. >> that corporations have a religious knee freedom. that's fright tong me, a. b, this is also a push maybe not so subtly to deny women's right, to go after the rights of -- so that's what's under this. i think with all due respect, the sisters and everybody else need to listen to pope francis. there are more important issues to deal with than this one. >> the nuns are women, too, and they feel this particular thing, this particular policy is against their -- >> but they have -- >> everybody stick with me. there's a lot of -- a lot more on this question.

we do pope francis cheers here every day. we love pope francis. but he's still not made any changes doctrinely in terms of the position on reproductive rights and birth control and that your point about -- i don't want people to miss that there is this point here, but also yours about this idea. there's a real challenge here about this question of how we balance what we continue to need to balance. up next, the growing enrollment in obamacare and the challenges it still faces. is marijuana the newest cash crop? in the nation, sometimes bad things happen. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance and we'll replace stolen or destroyed items with brand-new versions. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ i sense you've overpacked... your stomach. try pepto to-go.

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nail by government republicans who said it was a fundamental violation of american civil liberties. this year marks the final output of incandescent laws under a law signed by president george w. bush. manufacturers can no longer make or ship 40 or 60 watt bulbs that are not redine death signed to be more energy efficient. the idea was to phase out old bulbs which waste 90% of their energy giving off heat rather than light. a relatively simply way to reduce energy consumption. though some saw a more nefarious plot under way. >> mr. speaker, light bulbs are a symptom of the problem with this executive administration. they want to control what kind of light bulbs we have. >> we shouldn't be making these decisions for the american people. let them decide how much energy they want to consume, how many dollars they want to spend on kilowatt hours every month, not the federal government. >> the federal government does not have the authority to force

anybody to buy anything from health care insurance to a box of doughnuts or eve an light bulb. nowhere in the constitution does the federal government have such abuse of power. we should forget school lunches, mr. speaker. we now need to worry about our children's eyesight because the lighting they sit under every day in a classroom. all thanks to the blind federal government. >> uh-huh. it's too late to go back now. manufacturers actually fought against republican efforts to suspend the new regulation saying they'd already spent money to retool their plants. now, this should all in fact sound pretty familiar. the bulk of the affordable care act, of course, went into effect on the first of the year after five years of battles in congress and town halls and the supreme court and in the court of public opinion. after all that, millions of people now have health insurance because of the affordable care act. 2.1 million people have enrolled through the aca's exchanges and more than 4 million have enrolled in medicaid.

and there is no going back now. with me now from washington, d.c., jay engoff, a former health and human services department official. at the table, marc steiner, raul reyes. ka trka trina vandenheuvel, and robert george. i love we can make a claim between light bulbs and health care. and i think that the light bulb fight is over. >> a little light bulb. jay, let me pull you in here. i think the light bulb fight is over if. is the aca fight finally over now that it's i want plemted? are opponents going to admit defeat? >> no, they're not, it's not over, but i think it's hard to think this way right now but all this fighting in a way is really a blessing in disguise. >> oh. >> the unrelenting opposition, the total focus and over-the-top focus by the po opponents of the affordable care act on the

affordable care act has brought so much attention to the affordable care act it's worth much more than any hoaky marketing campaign. people are talking about health insurance at the dinner table, in offices, in bars. there's so much more knowledge now that health reform exists. that's a big advantage. there are already as you said more than 2 million people who have signed up for health insurance, another three months to go. as we saw with massachusetts enacted universal health care, everybody comes in at the last minute. so there are going to be millions and millions of additional people, many of whom have never had insurance before, who are going to be signing up under the affordable care act. >> my mouth is saying -- that's got to be the most optimistic reading of this five years of fighting that i've ever heard. >> well, i probably agree with him. i think -- i'm not sure if they're actually talking about it in bars. i think they're talking more about pending bowl games. >> at least right now, this week.

>> there is a discussion. but i think particularly in the light of our overall discussion on populism, i think he is right that it is a debate. there's certainly debate going on on the right about whether you should be fighting for repeal of obamacare or as some centrist conservatives are saying, look, it is the law of the land and we have to figure out how to either push back on this part of it or that part of it. so that fight is going on. but i'm also going to predict that on the progressive side i wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing debates forcing the states that have not adopted medicaid expansion, whether that's going to become something of a battle on the left to try to push that through. so i think he's right. the discussion is it's going to continue in 2014 and 2016 and further. >> i think the debate on the

left is going to be how you revive the medicare referral program and the states become a laboratory for possibly doing that, whether it's vermont where in 2017 you move toward the single plan, but in other states blushgs state, there's a move on how do you regulate the insurance companies, force governance to expand medicaid and get rid of the cruel folly that leave 4s.8 billion people not covered and leaves $30 billion a year on the table. but i think, you know, the public option fight is one that you can use aca to build out in different states. so every democrat's going to have to run on this in 2014 and they need to run on it and need to say every democratic president science truman fought to bring you affordable health care. sure we wanted medicare for all, but let's not talk about repeal. that's folly. how do we repair, heal it, build on it, make it a stronger part because once it's woven into

people's lives the history of social programs in this country shows how hard it is. >> there's also the competence issue, too, which i think democrats also have to in a sense defend. >> but i love the point that you brought back the populism question, woet of you, on the building a broader populist movement because in terms of legislative accomplishments and achievements aca is sort of the most important populist policy effect that we have seen over the course of the past decade. as you point out, all of these presidents trying to do what president obama actually accomplishing it, but as much as the president absolutely accomplished it, he's only managed to get us this far, he also had to make so many compromises and so we end up with a marketplace. then the marketplace ends up in the conversation we just had with all these challenges that happen in a marketplace. is it possible -- because now i think katrina is the most optimistic person -- not only

will it be a big fight but move us toward single payer? >> jay, happy new year to you. you are an optimist. they're both right. now we're at the place where we're going to improve it. we've had so much controversy, it's still so incendiary in certain communities, the health care issue, but what's lost is finally our government is saying it has established that it's not just going to be concerned with health insurance for the eld elderly, for the very poor, for children, it's going to be concerned there's compelling government interest and health insurance for all americans. i read e.j.'s column and he's right. it's here. it's happening. we're going to go forward and make it better. i think the challenge for democrats particularly will be educating and bringing in the large communities that are underserved by the latino -- >> i'll point out the gallup, who has been conservative in their ratings of president obama's approval ratings, nonetheless shows that we see

kind of an uptick in the president's approval ratings, not high, but an uptick in them in part as a result, we think, as people actually being able to sign up for obamacare. when we come back, i want to ask this question about whether or not folks can actually run on this in 2014 and going forward in 2016. and i want to bring in marc on this question of the medicaid expansion question. the modest first floor bedroom in tallinn, estonia and the southbound bus barreling down i-95. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪ [ coughs ] i've got a big date, but my sinuses are acting up. it's time for advil cold and sinus. [ male announcer ] truth is that won't relieve all your symptoms.

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there is another number to share. 4.8 million. that is a the estimated number of uninsured nonelderly adults who are below poverty and could have received health care through medicaid on january 1st if their states hadn't refused billions of dollars in federal

money to expand their medicaid programs. but those 25 states can expand their programs at any time with federal funds. so the fight is far from over. take a look at georgia, a coalition called world monday georgia. it's taking its inspiration and training from the moral monday protests in north carolina that we've been talking about and will hold its first rally on monday, january 13th. as georgia's legislative session gets into gear. their message to the governor -- expand medicaid now. so will this be the actual sort of policy moment around which this populism converges? >> i think for people who believe in a certain kind of america, this is a very important time. i'm sick of these people not having medical care. on the other hand, what it means is that you're going to -- a majority of the tea party representatives or a good number of them are in some of the poorest districts in america, poor districts with poor white folks living in those districts. folks are going to realize

they're being screwed. if the left, progressives have their wits about them, they should organize this and organize people, there's a whole world hit like it was in '68 during a poor people's campaign that can change because people are going to see they're being exploited. that's what's happening here. they've set themselves up against their own voters. in a political sense it can move things ahead. this is a tragic things when it comes to when poor people can't get up. >> jay, let me go to you on this because from the administration's point of view, why is it good to put more federal dollars there? >> it's a stunningly good deal. there's 100 fers federal funding for the first three years and if state states after taking that money for three years decide we liked it better when we had more uninsured people, they can stop insuring them. the important thing to keep in mind right now, though, is the three years starts on january

1st, 2014 so, for each day that goes by the state is losing -- the state that doesn't expand medicaid is losing money. in addition, when a state elects not to cover its own poor people through medicaid, its people are still paying federal taxes to help other states cover their poor people. it's absolutely by that so many states including states like texas, which have huge percentages of uninsured people, are refusing to take the federal money to insure their own people at no cost to themselves. >> raul, this just feels to me like campaign commercial 101, that if i'm running in 2014 in any state, if i'm a democrat running in any state where the governor did not expand medicaid, this is my campaign commercial. >> right. especially as, you know, time goes by, i think people in different states are going to become more aware of this disparities among the states and thinking like why is it that someone in the state right next door can get the coverage that we can't, that they have more

access and in states like florida and texas with large numbers of african-american voters, latino voters, and also poor white voters, i think that could be a real wedge issue and we could see a tipping point as we get closer to the midterm where is people as you said are basically waking up and saying why do we not have what other states have? we want it and we need it. >> in addition to the moral monday coalition, which is spreading in the south, which is very exciting, it seems to me, picking up on what what ralph nader said, a businessman in california who understands how insane it is that you're not paying workers minimum wage, therefore they're going on public assistance and costing the taxpayers, that's a conservative argument. i'd like to see an enlightened business community in these states, which are essentially rejectionist states. there is a map which shows some of the states that are rejectionist at other times in our history are sinking with these, but they should wake up and say you're leaving money on the table. you're leaving money on the table. who is going to take care of the citizens of our country?

>> then the argument is they're beginning to make is, okay, you're leaving money on the table now, but there's a medicaid phaseout and we're left with the bill. >> which is the central concern that a lot of these conservative governors, conservative legislators have, is, yes, you're sort of like, hooked in by the 100% takeover in terms of medicaid at the begin, but then when that fades out it's state taxes which are going to end up having to fill in -- >> like balloon mortgages. >> that's exactly right. and so the conservative argument is, you know, that's not a long-term tradeoff that we want. >> that conservative argument i like. right? because i think it's reasonable and i think it has -- >> they're very reasonable. >> listen, and i think that one has policy fixes associated with it. if what you're saying is you're promising this but this feels like one of those balloon mortgages, i don't have a one-year or a three-year

commitment, i have a 20-year commitment to my state, but as much as i like that argument, what i don't like is the an argument that says we're not going to expand medicaid, we're also not going to set up a state-based exchange, we're also going to send our attorney generals to sue the president's administration over the fix around people being able to keep their own health insurance for the short term, and in fact all of those -- they're not -- it's not as if there are some set of states. they are matching on in an act of massive resistance against aca that doesn't feel to me like that kind of clear fiscal argument that -- >> movement called medicare for all that could happen. if vermont takes hold, this will be the third time they would have passed a sing pailier system that the government has vetoed. they might not veto it next time. that begins to happen, a movement begins to build for something different. >> it's not just resistance. the republican conservative

opposition to this, you know, it borders on sabotage. and with respect to that conservative argument down the road, who's going to pay for the health insurance for all these other people, the progressive answer is we are. american citizens. we are. because we take care of each other. that's what most people in this country want. that's why we have the president that we do, that's what the supreme court upheld. i think in the long run, you know, it speaks to our -- >> social programs, the history of social programs in this country has always been troubled. i mean, you saw with social security. you saw with medicare. the same massive resistance. you saw governors not wanting to take it. 2014 will be important electorally. but moving forward, the movements to build on aca and to say, are you better off, again, woven into people's lives, it's going to be harder and harder. you see in the republican party some pragmatism because the straight-up repeal folks aren't really in sync with the establishment wing of the republican party at this point, which realizes it is here to stay. what are we going to do.

sabotage or have an alternative? >> and thank you so much. we undoubtedly -- the fight is not over. we'll get to talk more about aca going forward. jay, marc, robert. who i learned used to be a deejay. i think next time you come back you'll have to deejay for us. >> don't get me started. >> coming up, my letter of the week. that's correct. cause i'm really nervous about getting trapped. why's that? uh, mark? go get help! i have my reasons. look, you don't have to feel trapped with our raise your rate cd. if our rate on this cd goes up, yours can too. oh that sounds nice. don't feel trapped with the ally raise your rate cd. ally bank. your money needs an ally.

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same-sex marriage on the november ballot. but one person in particular has the power and influence to help keep that from happening. and that's why my letter this week is to indiana's republican house speaker. dear speaker brian bosmarx it's me, melissa. i know you're facing a busy legislative agenda and have admitted the issue of marriage equality is not high on that agenda. but know where your stand on the issue personally. take a moment to consider indiana's place in history. in 2011, state lawmakers overwhelmingly approved the proposed constitutional amendment barring same-sex marriage, and now a second vote is required before it can be considered by indiana voters. but before you allow that vote to go forward, remember that the national landscape has changed since 2011. same-sex marriage is now legal in 18 states including utah, where voters passed a state constitutional amendment in 2004 banning same-sex marriage only to have it struck down by a federal judge last month.

so, why the need for a constitutional amendment? indiana already has a state statute barring some same-sex couples from marrying, and the language in the proposed amendment is potentially troubling because it states, quote, a legal status identical or substantially similar to that of marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or recognized. opponents of the amendment point out that language could close the door even to civil unions. and many of your constituents appear hesitant. a recent poll showed the majority of indiana voters oppose amending the state constitution to ban same-sex marriage. and 11 indiana mayors, six republicans and five democrats, serving some of the state's biggest cities, have announced their opposition to the proposed amendment. so speaker, you and your counterpart in the state senate face a real test of leadership. you have already admirably called for any movement on this proposal to be done with respect

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we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. some coloradans had a lot to celebrate on january 1st as dozens of shops mostly in denver opened to sell recreational marijuana to long lines of customers including people from nebraska and ohio. now, why were out-of-towners there? if you want to purchase recreational marijuana, are 21 years of age and have a valid out-of-state i.d. you can get up to a quarter ounce of pot in colorado. coloradans who are 21 and have a valid i.d. can purchase up to an

ounce, which equals about 60 joints. if you have a medical marijuana card you can buy up to two ounces. how much will this run recreational users who don't have a medical marijuana card? right now the estimated cost for an eighth of an ounce is anywhere between $35 and $70 after taxes. a quarter of an ounce will run you about $130. and the cost for a top-shelf ounce will cost you $400. not including taxes. raul says, hmm. while it is entirely possible prices will drop over time, right now they are projected to add significant amounts to the economy of both colorado and washington state, where recreational pot will legally be for sale late they are spring. according to market research, washington state is expected to add $208 million to its economy in 2014 from legal marijuana sales and in colorado $359 million could be added this year from pot sales. joining me now from washington,

d.c., is jared bernstein, an msnbc and cnbc contributor, also a fellow at the center for budget and policy priority. at the table, editor in chief of "high times" magazine and raul reyes. katrina vanden heuvel and carl hart, associate professor of neuroscience and psychology at columbia university and author of "high price: a neuroscientist's journey of self-discovery that challenges everything you know about drugs and society." jared, i want to start with you on the pure economics of this question. those were extremely long lines. it looked like black friday out there. i guess i just want to know how much of an economic impact is this really likely to have? i mean, will colorado be different? >> first of all, when an economist sees a line like that we immediately think demand exceeding supply. great insight. right? typically that would lead to

higher prices at least in the near term over the longer term you expect more retailers to get into the business, although it's heavily regulate sod there's a wrinkle there. look, the numbers you mentioned are reasonable, sensible numbers based on the kinds of revenues states will achieve from their taxes on the sale of marijuana. but there's a whole other side of savings to state coffers having to do with the savings from no longer enforcing prohibition. in many cases, that amount is similar if not greater to the fiscal revenues that come in from the taxation. so there will be benefits to state coffers. against that, and i don't know that this was in the numbers you showed, against that, you have to figure the increased costs of regulating pot sales. that's not trifl either. >> let me ask you this. i mean, in the very realist way, i an entrepreneurial small business man or woman and i am looking for a market to enter if

i've been watching "shark tank" on cnbc. i need a market to enter. this the one? do i move to colorado, try to get a license, and say, hey, we've got long lines, that means we've got -- supply is insufficient to demand and this is a way for me to individually go make a profit? >> so, my gut resaks absolutely yes, when you see that kind of demand. but against that, again, you have to weigh the regulatory environment, the tax environment. those are actually unanswered questions at this point. we don't know the extent of regulation and taxation. for example, if taxation across the countersales of marijuana ends up being high enough, that will possibly incentivize black market sales to undercut the legal market. we've actually seen that in the past in transitions from, say, periods when alcohol was prohibited to when it wasn't. ultimately the legitimate market takes over. but i think you have to consider the regulatory environment, which will be substantial in

these states, before you pick up states and go open a new retail shop. >> so let me ask you this. how much does the way that colorado has implemented its recreational use here, as opposed to medicinal, how much does it actually tell us about what you think ultimately the capacity to say this has been a success will be? >> well, that remains to be seen. someone's got to do it first. and, you know, a lot of times they say, you know, the pioneers get scalped. we'll see what happens in colorado, but it looks good. i mean, i don't anticipate this doomsday scenario of legal marijuana. i think in a couple months this story is going to fade from the news as far as colorado is concerned. and in a couple years people will be like, why did we ever, you know, consider making that illegal to begin with? >> although i'm not a big fan of the pioneers and scalping, that

said, there is a challenge here in what we are seeing is people pushing the frontier. and pushing the frontier in terms of states and communities despite some resistance, saying, you know what, the cost of prohibition is too high. right? the cost of criminalization and communities, the cost of, like, keeping people from doing it is too high. when there's not good, solid medical evidence that says this is more problematic than other things that are legal in our neighborhoods. >> yeah. no. i think that when we think about the ultimate benefits of this, one of the things that it does colorado and washington, it sends a message that we think that the risk or the harms social securitied with prohibition are too high. and so by making this thing recreational legally -- legal and regulating a previously unregulated market, we're making things more safe for our general population.

and in terms of science and medical sort of -- when we think about medicine, there are always risks to taking any drug from acetaminophen, the toxicity and so forth, to marijuana to her n heroin. there are always risks that you have to think about weighing the risks versus the benefits. and in this case, colorado, washington, say, hey, the risks are too high. >> the death from prescription drugs in this country far exceed the direct deaths, at least, from anything marijuana related. yet the reason we have highly regular lated but legal prescription drugs is because we say the benefits of those prescription drugs are very high. >> absolutely. >> and to your point about pushing that frontier, you know, that this is basically uncharted territory for the states, one thing that's very important to remember is that our laws do not shape the culture. it's the culture that shapes the laws. you know, we've already seen that with same-sex marriage, i believe in the future we'll see wit immigration reform, and it's

now happening with the legalization of pot. i think it was back in october that for the first time a majority of the american public supported leaguization of pot. so with these states taking the lead, we are going to see the needle moving. and we don't know how it's going to work out, but it sure as heck -- the american public does not -- i think we've reached a tipping point where we're not in of the mass incarceration or the mandatory sentencing laws or other measures. >> i'm going to bring you in on that. massive incarceration and that i mean pact. jared, stay with us, because i want to talk more about what those other costs are and because, you know, in case i need to set up and a new business, i want to know. up next from the financial to the ethical and the political part of pot politics. and it feels like your lifeate revolves around your symptoms, ask your gastroenterologist about humira adalimumab.

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the first customer when shops opened for business on new year's day. his purchase cost $59.74 after tax. but while some celebrated what is happening in colorado, others voiced their concern. former congressman patrick kennedy, a co-founder of smart alternatives to marijuana, who has himself struggled with prescription drug addiction said on thursday that americans are rushing recklessly toward legalizing a dangerous substance according to the "detroit free press." columnist david brooks wrote this in "the new york times" on thursday. "in legalizing weed, citizens of colorado are indeed enhancing

individual freedom but also nurturing an immoral community." i appreciated david brooks' column in that speaking from his personal perspective, but i also kept thinking, katrina, he was missing his point that he and his colleagues who made these choices were able to make these choices and go on to have lives he deems is good or bad but at no point were any of them arrested, put in jail, and had their life choices so severely minimized for them that in a certain way david brooks actually did experience what legal marijuana is in that he did not experience any negative legal consequences as a result of his marijuana use. >> many the lead editorial we did on a special issue called "dope and change: why it's always been time to legalize pot," we quoted someone saying marijuana is a gateway drug.

it's been a gateway drug to the white house. if you look at it, look at clinton, w., and president obama, all have admitted in different ways to smoking pot. now, president obama, you know, he is our president now. but if his life had been constrained, restricted, marginalized by his use of smoking pot, it would be a very different outcome. what is lost and what carl hart writes about is you have to put racial justice it seems to me at the heart of the legalization movement, because there are about 700,000 people each year arrested for marijuana, and that nonviolent crime is filling our prisons mostly with people of color, and it is a cost that jared spoke of, the cost of incarceration. there is a moral, economic cost to this country. david brooks speaks from a very privileged position. and i think it's high time to think about an alternative. and president obama could very well look at the scheduling of marijuana as a schedule one drug, change that.

that would really move it from a dangerous, very addictive drug to one that, you know, lets tax regulate and control. colorado, washington, other states soon to follow will be our petrie dishes to see, but i do think the racial justice piece can't be lost. it's been a big part of this city, too. >> go ahead. >> we think about those folks, brooks and kennedy, the thing that people need to say to them in no uncertain terms, they are behaving in much of the same way when we think about in slavery. there are people in slavery times, thirp concerned about what would with let's say, for example, the children of slave owners or the slave owners. they would no longer be able to live the lifestyle they had. as opposed to worrying about all the people who were being prosecuted and persecuted. so i think we need to say in no uncertain terms that's the situation here. i think we've been less than forceful with that statement. that's one.

and, two, what we think about here in new york state alone or new york city alone the numbers of women, primarily minority women, who are -- have their children taken away solely because they test positive for marijuana. you can go in a brooklyn family courtroom any day of the week and see this happening, they are out there fighting this battle every day. when you think about all of those injustices and you hear people saying what they say, it's reprehensible. >> so you guys are giving me a tough time between the scalping metaphors and the slavery metaphors. i think we have to be careful on the slavery metaphors so i want to just reiterate that so i make sure i've heard what you said. then i want to go to jared here. which is that there is something about asking who is bearing the greatest cost in any given circumstance and in this case the question of who's bearing that cost are those who are most vulnerable and most marginalized so that if you were a college student at an ivy league institution who does a little

weed, the outcome is so different for you than if you are a single, poor mother. right? jared, let me come to you on that. >> katrina mentioned a very important number a few minutes ago. i think the latest data shows 750,000 people arrested for marijuana, prosecuted in 2011. now, once you end the costs of that enforcement and prosecution, not only do you generate savings, as we discussed earlier, but the distribution, the equitable distribution in terms of conversation you've been having at the table is very important and of course doesn't fall on the david brooks of the world, it falls on the folks in the lower end of the income scale. one other point. this issue of a gateway drug not in the sense that katrina meant but in the more traditional sense, has to be balanced against the fact of what we just talked about. it's not like nobody is out there smoking marijuana. it's not -- >> right. as we learned this week when so

many folks were like, oh, yeah, i was -- even though it's still federally illegal. >> how many first timers were standing in that line? probably zero. so the point is that you have to evaluate this gateway claim against the fact that it's really not a gateway if you're just involving a population that's been using for a while. >> brooks' claim, raul, is that the gateway is not so much a gateway, the kind of individual -- whether or not people will then use bigger drugs but a cultural drugway and that it's going to create a world in which -- and i think, carl, to me, this is the missed point, is, like, no, the cultural greatway problem is the criminalization, right, rather than the use of this drug. >> what he missed in his column and we were talking about it earlier, in a sense he was writing from his bubble because he did have an experience using marijuana, but, you know, no one is searching at yale to find people in possession of marijuana. you live in a housing project or

low-income area, it's a real risk. sometimes when you talk to the people about consequences of simple possession of marijuana, they're shocked when, you know, not just incarceration but also losing your right to vote, you know, the criminal record that can prevent you from getting, you know, employment, loss of your public benefits. it has severe consequences. david brooks was writing about it from such a narrow perspective, in a way he made the case inadvertently of the disparities between suburban whites and people of low-income and color. >> has less to decide whether we end up being more heavy weed users. chriss, raul, katrina, carl, thanks so much. up next, the story behind the picture-perfect lifestyle and the artist making sure you see the whole picture. my grandson's got this blankie that he brings everywhere he goes.

and since he's such an adventurous little boy... whee! [ giggles ] [ grandma ] ...it gets filthy. but he's got such sensitive skin that you worry about what you use in the laundry. so, when i'm in charge, we do things grandma's way. my tide, downy, and bounce all come in free & gentle. so we get a cleaner, softer blankie. and grandma wins. [ giggles ] [ female announcer ] tide, downy, and bounce free & gentle. great on their own, even better together. and let's say you bought cut-rate insurance and you weren't covered. oh, and your car is a time machine. [ beeping ] ♪ would you go back to when you got that less-than-amazing policy and go with esurance instead? well, they do have tools like coverage counselor® to help you choose the coverage that fits you. it's like insurance from the future. actually, more like insurance for the modern world. thank you! esurance. now backed by allstate. click or call.

of the dusty basement at 1406 35th street the old dining table at 25th and hoffman. ...and the little room above the strip mall off roble avenue. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪

have you ever picked up a glossy magazine filled with photos of immaculate homes and shimmering pools, champagne wishes and caviar dreams? behind the scenes, there are a lot of people who work hard to make those dreams come true. our foot soldier this week wants to make sure when you see images of luxury, you see the full picture. ramiro gomez is a 27-year-old artist from california, the son of mexican immigrants. he says he found inspiration for his art in 2009 when he became a nanny in beverly hills. his work involves him interrupting existing images of luxury whether they be in paintings, magazine ads or real life structures. by inserting images of those essential behind the scene workers, house cleaners, gardenersen and other domestic workers for making the invisible visible, he is our foot soldier of the week and he joins me from

los angeles, california. nice to have you. >> hi, melissa. nice to be on the show, as well. >> i want to start by putting on the screen one of the most recognizable pieces you worked on, david who canny's a bigger splash. we're going to see his luxury image and flext to it your work entitled "no splash." what are you trying to communicate here? >> it's something simple, to interrupt the iconic image by the famous artist david who canny and his focus is on the splash supposed to what my focus was. the pool cleaner. that came from my experience working as a live-in nanny in the hollywood hills for a people in employed a pool cleaner and the pool cleaner would arrive every thursday as would the housekeeper. i would see that. so i looked at david who canny's work in a very different way and felt the need to communicate that visually for people to understand what goes on behind the scenes of a luxurious affluent home in the beverly

hills, hollywood hills area of los angeles. >> one of the other media that you use are magazines. right? you actually take magazines and understand that for you, this is medium basically came from your situation. >> yeah, it came primarily from the fact that i was working every day monday through friday as a nanny and i have real feelings and i have emotions that would come into play and i had to communicate them in some form. art became my medium to present a very difficult complex issue for people to understand what goes on behind the scenes as i said, in these homes. it's very hateful to hear what people think of a housekeeper or gardener and so i'm trying to contrast that image of a person coming in and stealing a job and turn it into something that becomes positive and people can connect and empathize with.

the launching you use is interrupting. tell me what you mean by interrupting. >> interruption is a word that is very important to me in my process. in this current state in society in general, there's a lot of people with power, and there's a lot of things that aren't necessarily mentioned or talked about in the mainstream. and so what i'm bringing up is something that will be repressed or hidden especially in the wealthy circles. not talked about and interruption becomes important to understand the meaning behind the work. there is no person speaking about the things that i'm trying to speaking about publicly in the forms that i'm trying to speak about. so i'm coming in and trying to interrupt these mainstream thought processes especially of the wealthy and the privileged to help people understand what it takes to maintain luxurious homes and luxurious lifestyles. >> yep

ramiro gomez, thank you so much. thank you for joining us in los angeles. thank you for your work. i also want to say my grandmother who worked her entire life as a domestic worker often invisible in the household where she worked would have loved your art. and so i am very happy to have you as one of our foot soldiers. let me also say if you're in the los angeles area, you can catch rami ramiro's work at the charlie james gallery starting january 11th. thanks to you at home for watching. i'm going to see you again tomorrow morning 10 a.m. eastern as we'll look what's on the agenda as washington finally gets back to work and what florida can tell us about the year ahead. it's time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> a new report claims al qaeda has taken over two key cities in iraq. were all those years of war in vain? can the city of texas keep a brain dead woman on life support? for fans of three pro football

teams, it could have been a jarring hit not being allowed to watch the home team in the playoffs this weekend. the last minute twist that saved the day. colorado is the first state to the legalize recreational use of pot? will other states follow suit? don't go anywhere. . try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! [ male announcer ] when you wear dentures you may not know it, but your mouth is under attack. food particles infiltrate and bacteria proliferate. ♪ protect your mouth, with fixodent. the adhesive helps create a food seal defense for a clean mouth and kills bacteria for fresh breath. ♪ fixodent, and forget it.

deep freeze, a historic cold wave descends on parts of the u.s. bringing what one paper calls mind boggling low temperatures. exactly how low and where? a new message from the president today is congress willing to quickly act on extending unemployment benefits? what happens when the fight begins monday? going to pot. the first numbers on marijuana sales in colorado. they are staggering. the good, the bad and the ugly of what's happened there in the first few days. how does netflix know what you want to watch and why did a movie you watched last week suddenly disappear? a new article examines some of those questions.