and from the perspective of florida governor rick scott, why would you ever want to pick a new person for that job, even if you could finally get somebody, anybody to say yes. but the lawsuit wants to force mr. scott to name somebody, anybody as lieutenant governor within 30 days. the question is, can he do it? can you do it, governor? can you find somebody to say yes? it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." have a great night. harry reid actually got 60 votes in the united states senate today, including six republican. but they were not votes to pass a bill. they were simply votes to do what the senate knows how to do best. talk about maybe someday passing a bill. letting unemployment

insurance expire for millions of americans is wrong. >> long-term unemployment benefits. >> the majority of the nation wants to see these benefits extended. >> the good news is 24 this morning the senate took an important step in that direction. >> the senate got 60 votes it needed to advance. >> but not so fast. >> this is just a vote to proceed to the measure. >> we still have to actually clear the senate. >> and then the legislation will travel down the rabbit hole. >> the house of representatives -- >> where speaker boehner has already suggested it will face resistance. republicans say it is irresponsible. >> they want to see it paid for. >> to pledge funds without finding a way to pay for it. >> where's the beef? >> how do you pay for this? >> but not so fast. >> even when the republicans had control under the bush administration. >> 14 out of the last 17 times they have been unpaid for. >> what a pay-for -- >> well, he has a point. >> how hard can the gop fight back? >> you talk about unemployment insurance instead of job creation. >> we have to talk about what

policies create jobs. >> to be a recipient, you have to be looking for work. >> it makes them less likely to look for jobs. >> this ought to be a no-brainer. >> the republicans have a 28-point disadvantage when it comes to which party is more compassionate. >> i have incredible amounts of compassion. >> these are your neighbors, your friends, your family members. >> there are a lot of uncertainties left here. >> this is not an abstraction. these are not statistics. >> it remains to be seen if it will pass. >> it is day two of the carney beard, and i for one am not yet used to the jay carney beard. i don't know about you. but i'm just not there yet. six republicans joined democrats today in voting to move toward debate on a three-month extension of emergency unemployment benefits. after the vote in an event in the east room with people who would be helped by that

extension, president obama offered his reaction. >> the senate is a complicated place. just because they agreed on this vote, all they've agreed to so far is that we're actually going to be able to have a vote on it. they actually haven't passed it. so we've got to get this across the finish line without obstruction or delay and we need the house of representatives to be able to vote for it as well. and it's -- [ applause ] >> and that's the bottom line. voting for unemployment insurance helps people and creates jobs. and voting against it does not. >> the president also responded directly to this claim made by rand paul. >> i'm not against having unemployment insurance. i do think, though, that the longer you have it that it does provide some disincentive to work.

>> i've heard the argument that says extending unemployment insurance will somehow hurt the unemployed because it saps their motivation to get a new job. i really want to -- i want to go at this for a second. you know i -- [ applause ] that really sells the american people short. i meet a lot of people as piston united states. and as a candidate for president of the united states. and as a u.s. senator, and as a state senator. i meet a lot of people. and i can't -- i can't name a time where i met an american who would rather have an unemployment check than the pride of having a job.

>> joining me now are democrat congressman peter welsh of vermont and former secretary of labor robert reich, professor at the university of california at berkeley. representative welch, assuming this bill makes further progress in the united states senate, which is not at all certain at this point, what are the prospects of some kind of action in the house of representatives? >> well, it's pretty uphill, because we're having this debate as though extending unemployment benefits is going to solve the problem. what it will do is mitigate the impact on individuals and on the economy, but, in fact, what we should be doing is incorporating a discussion about what job creating policies will help, things like building our infrastructure, best time we can do that is now. it increases employment and demand. second, subsidize job program that was a partnership between republican and democratic governors in the administration and employers that put people to work.

then third, i think we should be raising the minimum wage. you do those thing, you're actually going to increase demand, increase the base of employment. >> robert reich, i would like you to take on this notion that's being advanced by rand paul that the longer people are able to get unemployment insurance, the less they will be inclined to seek work. >> well, the problem -- the logical fallacy there, lawrence, is that they're three unemployed people in america for every job opening. these people want work. as the president said today, there is nobody out there who is just -- doesn't want to work or would rather have unemployment insurance and unemployment insurance benefits. those benefits are very small for one thing. you know, it's -- it's crazy to think that there are all these jobs. the reason that people are unemployed this long is very simple. there are not jobs out there for

them. and not to extend unemployment benefits is not only cruel and puts a huge hardship on them and their families, but it's also very bad for the economy. it means that these people don't have money in their pockets that they can turn around and buy stuff with. and that means there are no jobs being created by their purchases. this is a drag on the economy. it makes no sense at all. >> let's listen to how rush limbaugh wants to reframe the language of this debate. >> what is unemployment insurance? it is paying people not to work. and that, let's change the term. let's get rid of unemployment insurance and let's call it paying people not to work. >> rush limbaugh doesn't seem to notice the word insurance in there. no one receives unemployment benefits who hasn't paid into that insurance fund that the government runs that in effect pays it. but what i'm concerned about,

representative welsh is that kind of thinking invading the house of representatives and elsewhere. i mean, that kind of thinking seems to me to be a much more crudely phrased version of what rand paul seems to be saying. do you hear echos of that limbaugh kind of thinking about this in your republican colleagues in the house? >> well, i do. in fact, big time. it's as though it's a morality play. and the morality for us and our responsibility is to have economic policies that can actually create employment. create jobs and create wealth. we're not having a debate about that. for instance, we have too large a trade deficit. and we're not debating that. a trade deficit means the jobs are getting exported overseas. if we could rebalance our trade we would create a lot more jobs here at home. the minimum wage is not on the table for discussion. mr. limbaugh doesn't like to talk about that. and the infrastructure is falling apart in this country. and the irony of this is if we spoke about some of these concrete things instead of everybody giving their vision of

morality, then we would actually be able to take some concrete steps forward that would put people to work on proposals that both sides could agree on, like infrastructure. >> well, one of the new republican views of the economic morality of this is that any extension of unemployment benefits should be, quote, paid for. that is to say taken for some other section of the budget. and that's something that they were not troubled by in the past when they were doing this under president bush. but let's listen to what mitch mcconnell today said about one way of possibly paying for these benefits. >> i would like to propose that we be allowed to offer an amendment to pay for these benefits by lifting the burden of obama care's individual mandate for one year. >> robert reich, i haven't thought about it, but if you had given me a few minutes to think about what would the republicans

propose as a pay-for, i guess that's where they would begin. >> sadly, lawrence, unemployment insurance extension under emergency conditions where we have very high unemployment, this has been an automatic routine approval since 1970. there's never been a required offset in this kind of emergency. we've had these emergencies before. and suddenly now after 45 years, republicans are saying we have to have an offset. now, when they talk about offsets, interestingly, they don't talk about closing tax loopholes for the rich. i mean, if you took just one tax loophole, the carried interest tax loophole that gives a huge tax break, $11 billion a year to very rich hedge fund managers and private equity managers, that would more than pay for this benefit extension for people very hard up. the republicans won't even consider doing that. the whole thing is so utterly hypocrite call. >> representative welch, chuck schumer warned on the senate

floor that looking for these pay-fors is a much trickier business than people think and it's very, very difficult to find one that both sides would agree on using. are there any that you've heard of that you think might be able to get bipartisan agreement? >> the bipartisan part is the elusive quality. professor reich just mentioned one i would support. but it's like emergency assistance after hurricane sandy. if you start having a debate among 535 representatives and senators about their favorite pay-for while the water is rising and the barn is burning you're not going to make any progress. ultimately, these things do have to be paid for, we know that. but that becomes an excuse to not have a commitment to policies that can build the economy. and we don't even have that debate. we turn it into a morality play as though the cause of

unemployment is the sloth of individual americans who are desperate to get some work. >> thank you for joining me tonight. robert rich's film "inequality for all" is available on dvd, itune and on demand. thank you both. >> thank you very much, lawrence. >> thank you. coming up, former bush and obama defense secretary robert gates has written a controversial new memoir about his time working for both presidencies. some amazing things in this book. and in "the rewrite" republican economic predictions. you could get very, very rich betting against republican economic predictions. that's coming up. ♪ [ male announcer ] what kind of energy is so abundant, it can help provide the power for all this? natural gas. ♪ more than ever before, america's electricity is generated by it. exxonmobil uses advanced visualization

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cantor is planning more such votes in 2014. but that's not enough for david

brat, the perfectly named chairman of the department of business and economics at randolph macon college. brat tells the national review that he's going to run a primary campaign against cantor because cantor voted for the murray-ryan budget deal and when it comes to repealing the affordable care act, quote, he hasn't moved the ball down the field at all. congressman brat, i can't wait for that title. up next, you think you hate congress? you do not hate congress more than former defense secretary robert gates does. that's next.

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people have no idea how much i detest this job. but enough about me. according to bob woodward, that is actually something bob gates said to a friend while he was secretary of defense. quote, people have no how much i detest this job, end quote. in a new memoir about that job that he detested, gates reveals that there was nothing he detested more than testifying to congress. all too often during my 4 1/2 years as secretary of defense when i found myself sitting yet again at that witness table at yet another congressional hearing i was tempted to stand up, slam the briefing book shut and quit on the spot. the exit lines were on the tip of my tongue.

i may be the secretary of defense but i am also an american citizen and there is no son of a bitch in the world who can talk to me like that. i quit, find somebody else. much of my frustration came from the exceptional defense i took at the consistently adversarial, even inquisition-like temperament of executive branch officials by too many members of congress across the political spectrum, creating a kangaroo court environment in hearings, especially when television cameras were present. having served in that job under presidents bush and obama sequentially, gates is in a unique position to compare the two presidents. in his book, gates say, stylistically, bush and obama had much more in common than i expected. both were most comfortable around a cadre of aides and friends and largely shunned the washington social scene. both i believe detested congress

and resented having to deal with it, including members of their own party. they both had the worst of both worlds on the hill. they were neither particularly liked nor feared. nor did either work much at establishing close personal relationships with other world leaders. both presidents in short seemed aloof from two constituencies important to their success. joining me now is the co-author of the book "hubris" and e.j. dione, a columnist for "the washington post." e.j., the coverage of the book so far to me, i'm a bit sir prized at. robert gates, former defense secretary offers harsh critique of obama's leadership. i don't see the harsh critique here. everything i'm seeing in here is gates talking about things that

happened in the administration that he acknowledges that actually perfectly normal things that happen in all administrations. >> first of all, i think before we lose track of it, it's worth noting how anti-war this former defense secretary is. >> yes, yes. >> one of the things that struck me reading the excerpt in "the wall street journal," and he talked about this some as defense secretary, is how wary he was, both of humanitarian intervention and, if you will, of neo conservative style intervention. and he really talked a lot about the cost of war, about what happened to troops, about people never coming back the same. i thought that was very powerful. in terms of his account of, and in the woodward story, he says this, there's really more ambivalence here about president obama, i think, because, you know, for example, at one point, he talks about being very uneasy, and he's quite critical of the way some of the obama folks spoke to some of the

military people. and the mistrust they had. but at the same time, he also says that the military kind of hijacked the discussion of the afghanistan policy and that president obama felt boxed. and he wrote somewhat sympathetically about that feeling on the part of president obama. and he has some sort of favorable words about obama in the book, and yet there is still this mistrust. you know, on the congress thing, i think he's right about congressional hearings. there's a tendency to posture really hard 6, to look like you're asking a hard question as opposed to being polite but asking a genuinely hard question. nonetheless, this is democracy and that's what happens. so that's what happens. i was a little surprised by how ferocious he was about that. >> dave corn, i can understand it. what i'm interested in when we get our hands on the book is, does he name names about senators or members of the house

that he's talking about? and in my observation, there is a huge difference between a house of representatives hearing and a senate hearing. the senate hearing always operates at a higher level. maybe not high enough for bob gates to feel comfortable and respected, but he does seem like guy who demands an extraordinarily high level of respect in order to feel comfortable. >> well, the book seems to have a pretty high level of crotchtiness in it. and he's critical of obama but at the same time, he says obama made all the right decisions on afghanistan. he goes overboard in saying that joe biden in decades of public service has never been right on any foreign policy issue, yet joe biden helped us get the last arms control treaty that gates supported. joe biden tried, unsuccessfully, to limit bush's authority to invade iraq, and gates says that the invasion of iraq was a mistake. and of course, you know, gates, you know, he was himself was no

the in favor on the raiding of the bin laden compound. so there's a lot going on in this book. in which it seems like, you know, gates is very -- he's contradicting himself. hell hath no fury like a cabinet secretary maybe somewhat partially scorned. >> well, i think that people when they're talking about this are frequently leaving out certain careful words that gates inserts in some of these paragraphs that i think make it all make sense. and not contradictory. but one of the things that is in here as e.j. says, this is the strongest anti-war statement i have heard from a defense secretary ever. he says very clearly in here that this country goes to war way too easily, e.j. uses the weapons of war way too easily, and that he talks about fire breathers in congress. he seems to be saying lindsey graham and mccain, without saying their names, these people in favor of military

intervention at every possible turn. he's clearly against that. >> right. and again, this book is thoroughly consistent with many of the things he said publicly when he was defense secretary. and, you know, historically, i think it's very common. generals were often the most critical people about war. it was eisenhower when he left the white house who criticized the military industrial complex. and i think this -- you know, this book fits well with the current mood of the country, which after iraq and after afghanistan is very wary of intervention, which is why president obama could not get, or probably wouldn't have gotten the authorize to use force in syria. >> there's not much reporting on how critical he is on president bush's decision making, but he does very clearly say in the book that he believes the invasion of iraq hurt tremendously, as he put it, significantly compounded the problems in afghanistan, david corn, and he also is says in here 245 he saw president obama

use some political considerations as he was approaching some of his decisions involving afghanistan and iraq. and he said he never saw president bush do that, but he also points out within the book itself that of course, president bush was not running for election. he came into the last two years of bush's administration. >> but he also says, when it comes to those political factors in obama's case, they were never decisive. >> right, right. >> so you're right. there's a lot of very careful language here. and if you sort of pull back and say okay, bob gates, i understand you didn't like the way the white house aides treated some generals when it comes to policy considerations, but compare that to george bush launching a war, an invasion, not just an operation like libya or like we might have had in syria, but a full-scale war in

iraq. in terms of wrongs and mistakes, you know, one is a elephant, one is a flea. yet, i don't sense in the excerpts that have come out yet that he's been able to make those discerning difference, that a lot of this is still very personal from where he sat. >> e.j., i think what we have here is a book that is not going to be read all that much before it is already going to be used as some kind of weapon against president obama. and people going in there trying to selectively carve out the pieces that they can say he's being critical of the president, president obama on, ignoring the similar material about president bush, and ignoring the fact that have pretty much everything he's talking about is stuff that has existed in every administration. >> right. well, first of all, everything is going to be used as a weapon against president obama. i suppose a republican would say that about bush. but i do think that he sort of

helps us on a couple of points. we knew and had some reporting on how wary obama got of the military when it came to the afghanistan policy. i think this book gives some more detail about how uneasy obama became with the afghanistan policy. how much real argument and in-fighting there was in the administration about this and in the end for good reason. >> the interesting thing about that bit, the first headline out of this was "the new york times" saying obama abandoned his afghanistan policy. but yet, gates pointed out he did it because he thought it wasn't working. there's nothing wrong with abandoning a policy that's not working. >> thank you both for joining me tonight. >> good to be with you. coming up, the cocaine congressman returns to work, a free man with a big paycheck. that makes him a lot luckier than thousands of americans who are serving hard time tonight for exactly what he did.

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>> the cocaine congressman is back. >> the majority of illegal drug users and dealers nationwide are

white. but 3/4 of the people in prison for drug offenses are african-american and latin know. why are arrest rates so lop sided? >> he is the first congressman in history to be convicted of cocaine possession. >> he was arrested in an undercover drug sting last month after buying 3.5 grams of cocaine. and today he was sentenced to one year probation. >> i believe in faith. i believe in forgiveness and redemption. and i hope if there's anything positive that can come out of this, and i know there will be positive that comes out of this, it's that i hope that i can be a role model for millions of others that are struggling. >> i love what i do and i'm

going to return to what i do. what you sent me to do in washington, d.c. >> joining me now is the contributor to the grio and co-host of msnbc "the cycle" working on a new art call entitled "presumed guilty." ari, it seems to me if you're going to get caught with cocaine, it's real good to be a congressman in the united states. things turn out pretty well. >> i think things turn out a lot better for you if you are a member of congress. if you are a white american, things turn out better for you than if you're an african-american, as you alluded to on the program before. the history is important this member of congress voted to say that people who use cocaine should be denied benefits. he still has a lot of government benefits, as well as government power. >> there are thousands and thousands of people, men and women in america tonight doing hard time in federal prison cells over exactly what he did. >> right.

and i think, you know, to quote michelle alexander, there is nothing more than the war on drugs that has contributed to systemic mass incarceration of people of color in this country. i think this is the perfect example to show that disparity. if he was in his home state of florida he would have been denied voting rights and housing and employment. he's very lucky to be white, male, in the district of columbia and able to just go back to his job. >> and by the way, just my position is that with the sentencing and the treatment he got is the harshest that anyone in america should get anywhere for what he did. i' not looking for him to get thrown in prison the way other people have been. let's listen to what he said today.

he was off-camera talking to reporters. it was recorded today in his office. let's listen to this. >> so i have an incredible network, both at home and right here in washington. and this is something that i will continue to work on for the rest of my life. i will take it one day at a time. and in doing so, i hope to rebuild and regain trust one day at a time. and i'll be doing just that starting today. >> are you facing an ethics investigation. >> re-election is the absolute last thing on my mind. >> listen, i wish him luck with the one day at a time. but re-election is absolutely the last thing on my mind? the guy did not forget how to spin while he was in rehab. >> no, he didn't. he didn't forget. look, the good part of rehab on the human side is it gives you tools to think about things, as they said, one day at a time. the problem for someone in his position is that he does look like a hypocrite and he's part of a republican caucus that has two sets of rules.

rand paul is good on this because he supports policies to change this. but most of this caucus and the people he wants to run with re-election with are perfectly fine with this. they have basically signed off on rules at the beginning of the process on how we profile and look for these crimes to how we prosecute them to what we do as zerlina mentioned, well after people served their time, which is deny them voting rights, are done in a racially fundamentally unfair way. >> one of the elements of the rehab is honesty and fighting your way to more honesty. and here's a politician on his first day back on the job and he has to lie about are you running for re-election? re-election is the absolute last thing on my mind. >> right. he probably skipped over a few of the steps.

but i think that this is just evidence that there is a growing problem with mass incarceration and the fact that more people of color are in prison than apartheid south africa right now, right? and so it's so fundamentally troubling that republicans, even rand paul, it's a good start that he co-sponsors legislation with leahy, but i think he has to do much more. his rhetoric is right on, but he hasn't done more. he said in an interview with me recently that he is going to do more this year. so i'm waiting for rand paul and more republicans to jump onboard. because we can't just be throwing people in prison, people of color in prison in the way that we're doing right now. >> i think this story is entirely about the teachable moment, about fairness in the penalties for these kinds of things. many of which shouldn't have any kind of real legal penalty at all. thank you both very much for joining me tonight. coming up, how wrong are republican economic predictions? like totally wrong. that's in "the rewrite." okay ladies, whenever you're ready.

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>> you can't imagine how hard she was to pursue. i first, then it was yes, then it's no, then it's yes, and then it's no. and that was before i asked her to move in. >> that was lily tomlin and jane wagner in 2012 receiving an award in palm springs. they met in 1971 and confirmed that they got married after more than 42 years together at a private ceremony in los angeles right after new year's eve. lily and jane collaborated on the tony winning one woman show "the search for intelligent life in the universe." last summer, lily tomlin told e news, you don't really need to get married, but marriage is awfully nice. congratulations, lily. up next, what happens when republicans are proven totally wrong.

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staples. make more happen. tonight's "rewrite" republican economic predictions. they have a very, very bad record. couldn't be worse. they are just wrong. and they are wrong over and over and over again, but that never inhibits them from continuing to make wrong predictions. and more importantly, it never inhibits the mainstream media from passing on those predictions in their stories as if they are something other than a failed vegas magic act. white house press secretary jay carney made this point sharply today by showing just how wrong republican predictions have been about what obamacare would do to health care costs in this

country. >> i would also remind you that a number of skeptics including the aforementioned speaker of the house said in august of 2010, quote, health care costs will skyrocket next year, thanks to obama care. i think he missed on that prediction. paul ryan, unless repealed, this law will exacerbate the spiraling cost of health care. that was january 201 1. the opposite happened. the opposite happened. >> in fact, since the affordable health care act passed, health care spending has increased below the normal rate. and of course, it will take years to have a final verdict on the affordable care act's health on health care koss on our economy, but we do already have a final verdict right now on john boehner's prediction and paul ryan's prediction on what would happen to health care costs in 2011. they both predicted skyrocketing

health care costs in 2011 and that did not happen. the opposite happened. they will continue to make predictions about health care costs, and most of the media will not warn their readers or viewers that those republican predictions have already been proven wrong. republicans are very good at making very clear, very specific economic predictions. and they are very good at being very wrong in those predictions. >> tax increases will so weaken the economy that, in fact, a recession will come on, jobs will be killed, revenues will go down and the deficit, instead of decreasing will increase. i believe that that will, in fact, kill the current recovery and put us back in a recession. >> could not be clearer. no punches pulled there. tax increases will put us back in a recession. that was newt gingrich in 1993 fighting against bill clinton's

proposed tax increase, which later that year passed the house and the senate with every republican in each body voting against the bill. every single republican in the house and the senate said the clinton tax increases, which were the biggest tax increases in history would badly hurt the economy, and most of them specifically predicted a recession. and what happened? every one of them was wrong. every single republican was wrong. about 9 clichb ton tax increases in 1993. the economy soared after those tax increases. and here's where we stood toward the end of that decade. >> think about it. there .probably have never been better times than these when so many people are doing so well in an economy that just gets stronger and stronger. the latest measure are the

numbers that are in for the end of the 1998 and they're sensational. >> just over a year ago, republicans were telling us once again that the obama tax increases on america's highest earners would be a job killer. republican speaker john boehner simply recycled the talking points that newt gingrich used 20 years earlier. >> he said i oppose tax rate increases because they cost american jobs. that gives you no room to give on rates. it is, by the way, not an original thought. who said this? the tax increase will kill jobs and lead to a recession and the recession will force people out of work and on to unemployment and actually increase the deficit? that's newt gingrich in 1993 on the clinton tax increase. and those of us who were work on the other side of that tax increase, newt, have been waiting for your apology for 20 years to be completely wrong

about that. >> i don't agree with you. >> the economy soared. no one lost a job because of that tax increase. there was no recession. >> jay carney presides over a press briefing room that includes more than a few reporters who were not quite old enough to remember that every single republican in washington was wrong about the clinton tax increase. and so today, he offered this little history lesson that bares repeating over and over again. >> do you remember 1993, the clinton budget? >> yes. >> remember, and some of these members are still in the house and the senate. profoundly confident predictions that if this budget were to pass we would -- the country would go into recession, job growth would be decimated. terrible things would happen. and instead, we saw the longest sustained period of economic growth and job creation in half a century.

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>> we want justice for my son's death. this officer who shot my son needs to be behind bars. he needs to die the way my son died. >> that was mary willsley who says her son keith was shot and killed on sunday by a police officer. he was a 90-pound, 18-year-old north carolina high school senior who liked drumming. he also suffered from schizophrenia which is why liz stepfather called 911 on sunday afternoon. >> can you send an officer over here? we have a son who has schizophrenia and he's not doing very good.

we've got to get him some place. >> okay, what is he doing right now? >> he wants to fight his mother. he's got a screwdriver. he's just, you know, he's not doing good. she's scared to death of him. >> are you with him right now? >> no, he's in the kitchen. i stepped outside to talk to you. >> how old is he? >> 18, just turned 18. >> we've had to put him in before. getting real bad again. won't take his medication and stuff. >> and you said he has a screwdriver? >> yeah, he had. i don't know if he's still got it. i'm going back in right now. he had one earlier and he wouldn't give it to me. >> okay. is this a suicide attempt? >> no. he just wants to fight his mother. he just -- he's not right. >> according to his parents shortly after that call, two

police officers arrived and got the situation under control, but the stepfather says things changed when a third officer from another town arrived. >> keith was not threatening anybody. keith did not want any part of it. he was having a bad day. then all of a sudden the southport cop came, walked in the house. i don't know have time for this. tased him, hit the ground, he got shot. there were two cops on top of my son when he shot him right over my shoulder. >> according to the 911 reports, just 70 seconds passed between the time the third officer arrived at the scene to the time that that same officer made this call to dispatch. >> i don't know if you've been advised or not, but shots fired. ids to defend myself against this subject. >> southport officer byron vassey has been placed on paid

administrative leave, but authorities will not confirm whether he's the officer who pulled the trigger. the north carolina bureau of investigation is looking into the shooting. joining me now, one of the first reporters at the scene on sunday of the star news in wilmington, north carolina. kaitlyn, i just don't see how this could possibly have happened. here's an unarmed 18-year-old. no one in this situation is armed except the police officers. they had overwhelming control of that situation. have you heard any theory from the police as to why there kou been a legitimate use of deadly force there? >> unfortunately at this point in time, details are scarce at best as to what transpired sunday afternoon down in that quiet rural community. we're still asking the questions, i know the family for every question i have, they have five more. just following suit. unfortunately, though, we just don't have too many answers and

speculation is not something that local authorities are doing right now. >> and the family, the parents have spoken to the local media there as we've seen in some of those clips. their story seems quite simple, doesn't it? >> i mean, that version of events is quite straightforward. and being one of the first reporters who responded to the home sunday afternoon, they have stuck by their story. the father mark has maintained that the son had a screwdriver. he never denied that by any stretch of the imagination. the story has stayed the same and it should appear simple but as with police investigations and anything involving use of force, there's so many questions and so many situations that we just don't know what happened. and unfortunately, unless you're in that moment, i'll never know exactly what happened that afternoon. >> well, there's going to be i think enough investigation in this case to give us some final

version of what really has happened. caitlyn dineen, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks so much for having me. it's an election year. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. if you look at barack obama right now and where his presidency stands in football terms, it's midway into the third quarter. it's a contest of will and skill between him and his critics out there, some of them pretty vicious that we know from last night's national championship game in football can still go either way. either he turns things around and gets control of events, including his health care plan, or he gets eaten up by his three worst enemies, the haters out there, the people in the