and according to district attorney vance there were nowhere near ground zero. >> just unbelievable. thank you, jonathan. >> chris hayes is up next. trenton, we have a problem. let's play "hardball." will good evening i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this huge political bomb shell out of new jersey. what happens when the hard evidence of political skullduggery catches up with a politician's all out denials. what happens when a possible presidential candidate, contender even gets connected to the kind of underhanded trickery and vengeance taking that he claimed he never had anything to do with. as i say, trenton, we have a problem. governor chris christie has made it clear he had nothing to do

withholding up traffic on the george washington bridge to set all score with a local mayor who didn't endorse his re-election. this morning's bergen record showed emails and text messages from governor christie's own office to be closely involved in what happened those mornings that the entrance to the george washington bridge. they show that officials closed those lanes as retribution against the local mayor just as christie's critics had been contending. quote, time for some traffic problems in fort lee. christie's deputy chief of staff signaled a bridge official. another earn mail shows christie's guy who oversees the bridge saying he's smiling and that's his word because the bridge obstructing was causing a problem for that local mayor they had targeted for vengeance. this evening after saying nothing all day about the bergen report, bergen record report this morning and cancelling his

one scheduled public appearance today, governor christie put out a statement that said he was outraged and deeply saddened he was misled by his staff's actions which he said he first heard about today for the first time. the editorial director of the "huffington post" and a political analyst. this is a stream of alibis. first one was the governor said there was some kind of is your ray going on that they had to count the cars or another game put the cones out the stop the traffic. couple of big shots on the bridge authority quit, his confides. now it's somebody named bridgett kelly taking the hit for this. he released a statement like a slip under the door, he released it saying oh, she did it. and never told me. who told him about the original alibi which was -- it doesn't add up.

>> they are contradictory. he either knew something was going on the bridge or he didn't. he hasn't -- this short statement in which he denies four times in the first two sentences that he knew anything about it, it contradicts the administration's earlier statement. >> david, we'll get to this, the larger political reality here that this was the moderate's great hope to take the republican nomination in 2016 to take it away from the crazies. your thoughts. >> the problem is that chris christie is not truly a moderate and he's certain lie not a moderate when it comes to bully style politics he practices in trenton, new jersey. the real vulnerability he has this petty, small matter affects people in fort lee. >> skullduggery. >> really represents what may be his deepest flaw that he's a bully, he's mean spirited, arrogant.

he thinks he's above the law, above common courtesy and having to tell truth. if you look at what he said up to now, it doesn't track with today's denial and further investigation, maybe even a criminal investigation that bus may have to get bigger to throw people under it other than bridgett kelly. >> documents subpoenaed by a panel of new jersey lawmakers shows a top christie aide and appointee at the port authority of new jersey earn mailed about the george washington bridge mess. if there's a smoke gun in this affair here it is. bridgett ann kelly one of governor christie's top deputies writing quote time for traffic problems in fort lee. wildstein, christie appointee at the port authority replied got it. here's how the bergen record newspaper reports some text messages with christie's port authority appointee.

quote, in one exchange of text messages on the second day of the lane closures, wildstein eludes to messages the fort lee mayor complained school buses, were having trouble getting through traffic. is it wrong i'm smiling? recipient of the text message responded to wildstein, the person's identity is not clear because the documents are partially redacted for unknown reasons. no wildstein wrote in response. i feel badly about the kids but the person there replied to wildstein. i guess. they are the children ever buono voters wildstein wrote making a reference to barbara buono the democratic candidate for governor who lost to christie in a landslide. other news organizations have reported same conversation word for word. but it's not clear who said what in this conversation but they are all reporting the same conversation. howard, this is the kind of thing where all those weeks

going up until today in his usual big way, the governor was saying there's nothing to this. we'll go through all the quotes. the denial after denial, the sarcasm, the ribbing of the reporters, making light it, making fun of the reporters for asking the question. any time he might have asked we don't even know if there's anything to this. let's go on. >> the political import of this, chris, is that people have been willing to give chris christie a look if not a break because he seems like a bull injuries an honest bully and a guy who was going to knock over the parts of politics in a good way. but he's all too typical of a politician and we're not sure if he's telling the truth. his story is contradicted. he's an autocrat willing to make other people suffer and inconvenience people. this is the first day of school in fort lee. medical services were delayed. kids are punished.

>> he's fired the guy that makes a quarter of a million. he's put the screws to his staff. how many alibis and balloons will be put up there before somebody says wait a minute. who do you think was behind this. >> chris, two key points opinion that e-mail you just showed time for traffic problems in fort lee. is it christie's contention that bridgett kelly came up with this idea on her own and had nothing to do with what goes on in his office. that's a big question mark. the second thing what was chris christie before he was governor of new jersey? he was a federal prosecutor. so this guy had all this stuff going on in his own office and he was not curious to ask any questions. he just issued blanket denials while everything was going on. turns out he didn't have much of a nose for news if that's how he performed.

so there are a lot of issues here that have to be sorted out and these investigations probably will go on for weeks. >> it's so nixonian. people ask nixon was innocent and the cover up why didn't he say get in here guy what happened. he never tried. didn't christie ask anybody what happened. i don't believe anything yet. here's governor christie being dogged with questions about that george washington bridge mess and whether it was a vendetta against the mayor of fort lee. in various press conferences all this happened. on december 2nd the bergen record -- christie was asked if he had anything to do with the lane closures. here's christie's response back then. >> i worked the cones, actually on that, unbeknownst to everybody i was actually the guy out there. i was in overalls and a hat but i was the guy working the cones

out there. you really are not serious with that question. >> sarcasm. the bergen record timeline shows on december 13th christie was asked whether the lane closures were related to the fort lee mayor and political retaliation. christie replied he meaning the fort lee was not somebody that was on my radar screen in any way politically, professionally or in any other way until these stories came out. he had nothing to do with this lane closure effort to embarrass that local mayor. on december 19th christie said his national profile was keeping the bridge story alive. in other words, he's so famous people talk about the little stuff. listen to how he does it. >> just because press runs around and writes about it both here and nationally, i know why that is. so do you. let's not pretend it's because of the gravity of the issue. it's because i am a national figure. and anything like this will be written about now.

so let's not pretend that this is some great thing. i know you all think this is some issue of great, great moment. i don't. mistakes were made in the way this stuff was communicated by senator baroni's own testimony and took responsibility punily both of them for mistakes that were made. as far as i'm concerned that's it. you guys all want to keep chasing it around keep chasing it around it's "your business." i'm not running around doing an independent investigation. i'm not a prosecutor any more i'm a governor. >> there you have a couple of interesting developments. first the use of passive voice means trouble. mistakes were made. number two i'm not going to go around and investigate. wait a minute. first time he puts out the word that this was some sort of research project. so if you're to believe him now in a statement we put out tonight you have to believe

following. he didn't know about this phony baloney research project that led to the bridge problems. that was created by his staff. they were covering it up. now you have to believe in addition to that his deputy chief of staff and who knows who else was involved in this whole skullduggery of let's cause bridge problems for that local mayor and you have to believe he didn't set about a pattern of revenge getting, he didn't do this in a number of cases so the deputy chief of staff would have said we're going down a list of your enemies, we're doing to each one you want me to do. >> a couple of other things. he said in december mistakes were made. how did he know mistakes were made. he's the former prosecutor did he learn just enough about it to know mistakes were made? your larger point is the important one. this is just a window into, i think, the way that christie governorship has been run in new

jersey and far from being a small story this is a thread you pull to see how this guy operates and the suit comes off and how he governs were he to become president of the united states. >> david, i know you're a man of the center left or left and your politics are clear to me and i love them but let me tell you what the stupid thing is. how hideous it is for the republicans. what is their opening against obama and democrats. they don't know how to run something. they don't know how to control situations. here's a guy who admits as his defense he doesn't know anything that's going on. he doesn't know what's going on with the bridge or guys he's appointed. he doesn't know about traffic surveys opinion he doesn't know what his chief of staff is doing. that's his defense? >> what christie is sort of promotion, self-promotion has been in the last year what goes on in washington, they are just a bunch ever kid, it's a kindergarten down there. i'm not like that. i make things happen. i'm an adult.

he has said that over and over again. dismissing other congressional leaders who might run for president as well. now he looks like he's the guy who is petty, a schoolyard bully and the whole idea that he didn't know -- listen there was evidence weeks ago that that whole traffic study explanation was full of you know what. yet he took no initiative to look into it and get to the bottom of this because he didn't want to. i still think it's hard to believe so many people at the port authority and his office thought it was fine to do this. you only do that if you get signals from a certain culture and that culture is set by the guy at the top and there's still a lot to learn. >> as mike dukakis says the fish rise to the left. >> he made his repudiation by being down at the coast during the storms, knowing the details telling people to get out. that was chris christie, good on the details. now as you say he's saying i

have no idea. >> we'll come back in a minute and talk. this is big time. what will the republican party run now? ted cruz. they have a weak bench to start with and crazier. just for the record here, here's what christie said tonight. listen to this. this statement came out as a written statement. he had it slipped under the door tonight after an all day examination of what happened by him apparently. what i've seen today for the first time is unacceptable. i am outraged and deeply saddened to learn that not only was i misled by a member of my staff but this completely inappropriate and unsanctioned conduct was made without my knowledge. one thing is clear, this type of behavior is unacceptable and i will not tolerate it because the people of new jersey deserve better. this behavior is not representative of me or my administration in any way, and people will be held response sill for their actions.

king richard the lion hearted has returned to england to clear things up. i want to talk about how this scandal and what it is could scramble, but the kabosh on the 2016 presidential race. chris christie is supposed to be the party's savior of right-wing albatross. maybe scott walker. republicans claim to have a better idea to fight poverty. we hope they do. everything on the poverty front, minimum wage, extending unemployment benefits, foot stamps. they want to cut them. conservatives are overreacting to what robert gates wrote. president obama did not say he opposed the surge for political reasons but that hasn't stopped those from the right saying so.

read the book. i did today. i know i wasn't supposed to but you read it. let me finish with a couple of personal notes. this is "hardball." a place for politics. food is f. so i can't afford to have germy surfaces. but after one day's use, dishcloths can redeposit millions of germs. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel. look! a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth, as this black light reveals. it's for everyday surfaces where dishcloths deposit germs. and only bounty duratowel is clinically proven to be 3 times cleaner. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. the durable, cloth-like picker-upper. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. side by side, so you get the same coverage, often for less. [ rattling ] that's one smart board. what else does it do -- reverse gravity? [ chuckles ] split atoms? [ whoooosh! ] hey, how is that atom-splitting thing going? [ rattling ]

[ electronic whistling ] oh! [ zap! ] a smarter way to shop around. now, that's progressive. call or click today. >> back with more on what the scandal in new jersey means for the republican party nationally and who they will run now that christie is in big bad trouble. back after this. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up

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we're back with the big implications of the chris christie bridge story. let's talk about the national fallout and what it means for the republican field comes 2016. chris christie would be the main stream candidate. people like rubio is all over the place and rand paul and ted cruz. also who benefits from the christie mess right now? scott walker of wisconsin the only other nontea partier who could run for president. how do republicans win if a

growing percentage of the country identifies itself as independent. we just got that number today. the smallest percentage ever as republican. if there's any way christie can climb out of this mess. if he's involved in this punishment effort to somebody who posed him for re-election can he get forgiveness. howard fineman and david is still with us but kathleen parker is joining us. let's go right across the board howard and david and then with kathleen. it seems to me the first question in massachusetts they say the shape of the field the firm is the winner. what's the shape of the field now that the big guy is not on the list any more. >> the shape of the field is he'll get ground up between two very angry opposing forces. the tea party people in the republican party have never liked him. the tea party blogs were live with ridicule.

the democrats in new jersey to whom he had paved over and was ahead, the irony of muscling the guy in fort lee he didn't need to do it. the democrats in trenton and elsewhere are embittered. there's going to be investigations. the mayor of fort lee wants to sue. this is going to go on and it's going to thrift lid on his administration, it's going to last two years this way. >> i just look at the string of firings that's taken place. a guy loses the big $250,000 a year job you put him into. another guy for 130 a year. now he's pretty much targeted his deputy chief of staff, bridgett kelly. how many more people will take the bullet for him before somebody says this is the deal. >> you're waiting for the john dean of trenton to show up. that may come, it may not come.

to your question, chris, you said the shape of the field determines who wins. i think actually the membership of the audience determines what the show is. the tea party gang still controls the base of the republican party. so when it comes to winning primaries and caucuses, especially, that party is so far to the right, it hasn't moved back to the center after the shellacking it got last year. so the gravitational pull is to the right for ted cruz and rand paul. >> but never in the history of the party ran a whacko. you have to go back to goldwater. >> the party keeps moving in that direction. chris christie was is going to get in there and fight those currents. i don't see anybody on the horizon who can come in there and fight those currents unless you want to say it's a good day for huntsman which i don't think it is. >> kathleen, i want to ask you

this question. after days and days and weeks and weeks, this governor has been treading water on this issue. the boat -- he keeps bailing out. people keep getting fired. first there's a traffic study now there's somebody that completely lied to him. i don't know if you believe the traffic study. he was part of the cover up. now he has somebody else he's blaming for misleading him. he ducked his public appearance today. showed no face to the press. slipped this statement out before "newshour" and that's the actions of somebody who doesn't like the light. your thoughts? >> you summed it up well. look, i bet there are a lot of republican candidates out there paraphrasing the deputy chief of staff saying is it bad that i'm smiling? i think christie very badly hurt by this.

and part of the reason is that he's always had this impression of being a bully and certainly people have testified to that. but it's always been in a moment, you know, where you're reacting to sorry you're angry and you fire off. but this has the feel of conspiracy to do something that's harmful to the people whether he had anything to do with it or not. this is the staff that he has surrounded himself with. this is the culture of his own administration. that's very bad for chris christie. nobody likes a bully and nobody wants that kind of personality to represent this country and to the rest of the world. >> i get the feeling -- scott walker, ed schultz went after heavily and survived that onslaught. he's the only guy i can think of that's not identified as a tea party type. he may be a conservative and a tough guy. >> here's what's devastating about this not just for christie but for the republican party. that new survey you talked about

that said the greatest number of american people identify themselves as independents. chris christie was the guy who was is going to appeal to the independents. because somehow he was outside of and beyond politics. now as i said he's showing himself to be all too typical, maybe even corrupt politician, that's going to turn off the independents who like good government. who like people who are outside of the party system and the way things, politics are usually practiced. this smells of the way politics are usually practiced at the lowest level. that kills with independent voters. >> it reminds me of that kelsey kelsey grammar show. it was pretty rough. >> this is going to pin christie down too. there will be a couple of investigations and once you

start looking at anything -- you know this from washington and local politic, who knows what else can come up. he was moving more and more towards the national stage he took over the republican governor's association, he was moving away from trenton. this is going to pull him back in and get him stuck in whatever mud there may be there. >> well trenton makes the world takes. thank you so much howard, david. kathleen parker great to have you on tonight for this sordid story. this story is not going away. you can pet we'll talk about it tomorrow. this is the bridge to nowhere for chris christie. up next good thing dennis rodman is making friends in north korea because he's losing them back in his country. that's us. and this is "hardball" a place for politics.

back to "hardball." time now for the side show. dennis rodman's latest ad convenient to your to north korea is proving to much to swallow here. the bad boy honored kim jong-un with a happy birthday serenade. it preceded a basketball game in which rodman and a group of former nba players played against a north korea team to celebrate kim's 31st birthday. the spectacle comes a day after cnn meltdown after the trumped up charge against an american being held there in that country may be legitimate. kenneth bae's family is appalled. senator john mccain called him an idiot for allowing him himself to be used as a propaganda tool. up next conservatives say the

war on poverty that began 50 years ago didn't work. maybe their work to gut the social safety net every chance they got.

here's what's happening. gabrielle gifford marked the third anniversary of the shooting with a skydive. john kerry will travel to paris and kuwait. let's get you back to "hardball."

this administration today here and now declares unconditional war on poverty in america. the richest nation on earth can afford to win it. we cannot afford to lose it. >> that was president lyndon johnson 50 years ago today declaring a war on poverty. you might have heard a number of conservatives this week declare that war was lost. senator marco rubio is one of them. today in a highly publicized speech he argued the fact that some americans remain in poverty proved we lost the war. >> our current president and his liberal allies what they propose to address, their proposal is let's spend more on failed

programs and increase the minimum wage to $10.10. this is their solution to what the president has called the defining issue of our time? raising the minimum wage may poll well but having a job that pace $10 an hour is not the american dream. and our current government programs at best offer only a partial solution. they help people deal with poverty. but they do not help people emerge from poverty. >> senator rubio said what is needed is for people to get better paying jobs and for the economy to create more opportunities to find those jobs. here comes his magical solution. >> we have the single greatest engine of upward mobility in human history at our disposal, the american free enterprise system. >> okay. rubio also said the federal government should hand over its anti-poverty programs to individual states and let them decide what to do with the money. when rubio and other conservatives declare it a 50

year failure they miss the point. after some initial successes conservatives went about trying to dismantle president johnson's programs back then and to a large extent succeeded. how much more of the safety net do they want to dismantle. in 1964 when lyndon johnson was giving his address, u.s. congressman john lewis was fighting for the political rights of african-americans. he joins me now to give us a historic perspective. congressman, what do you make of this rubio proposal. oh, we'll just turn everything over to the states and get rid of them and somehow the free enterprise system will take people out of poverty. in other words, do nothing in washington and everything good will happen. what do you think? >> well, i must say, chris, that the proposal by the senator is wrongheaded.

i think he's dead wrong. i lived through the '40s, through the '50s, through the '60s. i grew up very, very poor. during the '60s i traveled across america, rural areas, urban centers and what lyndon johnson did with the war on poverty, he made great strides in cutting poverty in half. to go back and say give everything to the state government, you going to give it to the state of georgia, alabama, mississippi or to some other state outside of the south? we don't want to go back we want to go forward and don't build. lyndon johnson was right, it is a war that we cannot afford to lose. if we go back, we'll have people receiving starvation wages.

hundreds and thousands of people are better off today. they traveled and saw people living in unbelievable conditions, receiving starvation wages. as a nation we can continue to do better. we need to build off what lyndon johnson started 50 years ago. >> do you think people have just terrible memories and people like rubio who is a young guy who may not know the history of this country in the period you talk about are being taken because it seems to me that everybody knows richard nixon went into office in 1969. he put howard phillips, brought in donald rumsfield to destroy those problems. ronald reagan ran against the

welfare queens and other iconic messages, the dog whistles. he trashed those programs. the bushes, father and son, how do these people get away saying we had a 50 year war on poverty when we had about a six year war. >> you're so right. we had about six years and later systematic deliberate effort to destroy what lyndon johnson set in motion and we need a greater commitment. i don't quite understand it in our country. as we think about what lyndon johnson did and what he said. the richest nation on the planet. we don't need more bombs and missiles and guns. we need to take care of our people. you don't tell me that head start and vista didn't help create better conditions, help lift people, help resources to buy a refrigerator, to buy books for their kids, to put food on their table?

>> well, it's a different mindset, congressman. it's a new one and a bad one. thank you so much for joining us. congressman john lewis who was at the heart of this storm 50 years ago. michael, you've written very well about this and there was an emotional history with the people who benefitted from it. the short nature of the war on poverty and "wall street journal" had a big column today, 50 year war upon university. what are we talking about, reagan, nixon. >> you got it right. six years. from 1964 to 1970. in those six years the official poverty rate was cut nearly in half. 40%. something like that. it was working. it was working for a while. then vietnam ate up a lot of the money. then there was some corruption and some problems. then the backlash set in. then reagan came along. there's been no 50 year war on poverty. >> when you have something, you don't recognize how important it is.

when you're denied it. like right to choice. then it's a big issue. social security is the greatest anti-poverty program this country has ever established. the fact that it used to be when you were 65 and couldn't work any more, you would live with your kids. you move in with them. depend on them. once social security was passed you had a foundation for retirement and in some cases your entire retirement. you were going to eat. you're not a politician. why aren't the democrats out there bragging they prevented from old people dying in the gutter. >> i don't know why. they should say that every day of their lives. i made that point in the column i wrote this week. democrats have to defend these programs. >> free enterprise system was there -- when you were 65 and you couldn't work and you were broke. that's the free enterprise system. now they say bring it back to the states.

is the state of georgia or pennsylvania going to have a nutrition program? no. >> even putting aside the question of whether states have the will to do these things. putting that to the side. most states just don't have the capacity to do these things opinion they don't do it. the federal government can do it better. >> did you notice how turning everything over to the states worked with health care. >> yeah. >> the states that got ahold of it screwed it. anyway thank you. great reporting. up next the right-wing overreacts to robert gates new tell all account of the obama administration. boy have they gotten this thing wrong. even the press got it wrong. this is not the accusation. it was cleverly not made in the book. we'll get to it. this is "hardball", a place for politics. h my little girl, every food is finger food. so i can't afford to have germy surfaces. but after one day's use, dishcloths can redeposit millions of germs. so ditch your dishcloth and switch to a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel.

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>> with all of the scandal around her i'm not so sure it would be bad for the republican party to tell the truth. she wanders and scandal surrounds her. you brought up one just today. benghazi. we talk about the health care scandal or the health care rollout in the early '90s. whitewater. you name it. >> i don't know what he's talking about. scandal surrounds her. there you have it from priebus who is intent on dragging up false stories on hillary clinton should she get into the president race. we'll be right back. she keeps you on your toes. you wouldn't have it any other way. but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache.

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bob, today you're not only one of the longest serving secretaries of defense in american history but it's also clear that you've been one of the best. the integrity of bob gates is also a reminder, especially to folks here in washington, that civility and respectful discourse and citizenship over partisanship are not quaint relics of a by gone era. >> that was president obama back in june of 2011, bidding

farewell to secretary of defense robert gates in a ceremony awarding him the presidential medal of freedom. what you heard in that clip the president praised gates for his respectful discourse while in office cementing his reputation as bob woodward puts it known for his bipartisanship. ripple effects of gates upcoming memoir "duty" ridicules joe biden and hillary clinton is getting felt in washington and with force. what's truly surprising is gates lack of loyalty. think about it. a pentagon chief going public with a hostile portrait of a sitting president. in addition to pass sags that call the obama white house the most controlling since richard nixon's day and in addition to excerpts that berates biden's foreign policy experience, i want has to do with the 2007 iraq surge.

quote, hilary told the president that her opposition to the 2007 surge in iraq had been political because she was facing him, the president, in that iowa primary. the president conceded vaguely that opposition to the iraq surge had been political. to hear the two of them making these admissions and in front of me was as surprising as it was disarming. take a look at how it's playing in conservative media outlets. ack to "hardball" that was chuck todd the chief white house correspondent and political director nbc news, chuck, i got a look at the book, i saw that paragraph, it never -- first of all, i put in there that hillary believed in the surge, but

didn't support it because of political reasons, she's up against obama who was opposing the whole iraq war, it never says obama conceded that i was operating on the basis of politics, said, he vaguely conceded that opposition to the surge was political. well, i have no idea what those weasel words mean, those are weasel words. opposition, whose opposition. vaguely in what does that mean? vaguely conceded the opposition, never said anything about him, you're reading. >> well, if i've been doing a lot of, sort of background reporting and back and forth, and there's a couple things that have -- that come to light to me, just talking to some folks today, some folks close to gates, for instance, who have described the initial reporting. the initial accounts, specifically, bob woodward's account as sensationalized, that people close to gates are saying, hey, you know what, this book is candid, yes, he stands by those quotes about whether it's a biden and hillary on

president obama, the whole book is much more measured and much more in line with the picture of bob gates that's been painted for decades in this town. so there seems to be a little bit of a concern or shock in gates' world, how these quotes are playing, and it may not have necessarily -- maybe sending a message that gates, himself wasn't necessarily intending to send. >> i thought the press coverage was trying to make it look like he was painting both with the same brush, saying they were playing politics. everyone who's watching this show knows that obama since the time he was a state senator opposed the whole iraq war. certainly would have opposed the surge in principal we heard his speeches day after day against the war. >> no, it would have been weird. it would have been weirder, had -- it would have been more inconsistent, hillary clinton

had the harder time with this issue, because she supported the resolution. she was having to explain this stuff, and so it was harder for her, she had no choice politically, to come out and vote against the surge when it happened, so there is politics there. >> she didn't want to say so. that's also in the book that they're not reporting, i just read the darn thing. >> is this a weird way to release a book? release the hot quotes, and then you wait a week to -- >> well, that's what you -- it's the way they sell books these days, but, you know, there is a larger thing, it's sort of -- the fact is, there was a break between gates and obama, and it was never personal between the two men, their relationship was never quite strong, the disrupt on the staff level, can i tell you this from my own research was very real, and it all stemmed from, if you recall in 2009 which is really what this book in the obama section of the book is about, is this whole

process of trying to figure out what to do in afghanistan, was there going to be a surge of troops? and a lot of the debates left a lot of hurt feelings, the white house felt they got jammed by the generals in doing, in picking a specific number of troops that they necessarily weren't in favor of at the beginning. >> i'm watching this from the outside, it looked like a jamming. and i talked to folks in the pentagon who acknowledge that it looked like a jamming, but swear it was never the intention. the problem was, that's how the disrupt began. the white house and the security staff started doing their own thing and getting their own information. and started filtering things a bit. that's where you got the hurt feelings. and this part of it is real. >> i think the sad part of it is real, and that's the story. the people you covered and have

covered, they didn't like those guys in uniform, they figured those guys wanted to prosecute a war, they started and wanted to finish it, whereas obama wanted to end it. thank you, chuck todd. we'll be right back.

you finish tonight a couple personal notes. i want to thank michael for

being a great hardball host while i was away over the holidays. i couldn't have a better person being here when i'm not. which is not that often. on that point, i was with my family the last two weeks, kathleen managed to get out the holiday card this year, i love it, and i want to share it with everybody. there's kathy and me at her birthday party last summer, thomas and caroline in the corner. thomas is an actor now, appearing for the last two seasons as a recurring cast member on "newsroom" he's also in "american hustle." caroline is with google right now, doing a great job, she just got a promotion, in fact. michael's there with he and sarah, his young daughter, our granddaughter, the wondrous julia, sarah is an attorney out in l.a., michael who produced a film that got into sundance last year, is working as a screenwriter. i can't tell you how proud

kathleen, who's going to be on the show tomorrow are of our children that they're out there at the cutting edge, taking risks, contributing to this great country in good and important ways. that's hardball for tonight, thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. stunning developments today in the unfolding scandal surrounding new jersey governor chris christie, as documents obtained by the press show the governor's top deputies ordered lanes of traffic on the world's busiest bridge to be closed off in the new jersey town of ft. lee. a punitive retribution of the mayor of fort lee who had the gall not to endorse christie. you do not want to miss that. tonight a man once hailed as the presidential nominee is fighting