this morning my question, is a polar vortex a real thing? plus hip-hop goes to north korea. and the schoolyard fight between a conservative congressman and the new champion of the left. but first the most talked about traffic jam in the country. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. it's both the most universal and mundane of human experiences for people living in and around the country's major metropolitan areas, the morning commute. and for drivers it can become a

dreaded dachbly slog all because of a bayne of a driver's existence, traffic. that's where drivers spend 3 rkds 800 hours a year sitting in a car not moving. usually it's just a local news story that is until this week because this week the story of one traffic jam was featured in the wall-to-wall national news coverage which is right now the biggsest scandal in the country. it revolves around the office of one of the leading contenders for republican nomination, governor chris christie. this was christie this week after a series of e-mails and text messages linked his administration to a commuter nightmare that appeared to be politically oriented. >> i come out here today to apologize to the people of new jersey. i apologize to the people of fort lee and i apologize to the

members of the state legislature. i am embarrassed and humiliated by the conduct of some of the people on my team. >> so to understand how we got here i'm going to have to take you all the way back to september 9th when during one typical monday morning commute it was toll booths that were to blame for the traffic. two booths were closed reducing the normal three lanes of traffic into one on the george washington bridge. the gwb as the locals call it connects new york city the nation's biggest cities to one of the city's most densely populated suburbs in new jersey. it's already infamous for the most traffic congestion even on a clear day which is what earned it the dubious distinction of being the busiest bridge in the world. but even by the gwb standards, september 9th was exceptional.

children heading to school were stranded for hours and the backup turning the neighboring town of ft. lee, new jersey, into a neighborhood parking lot. and not just on that one day but during the morning commute every work day that week. by the end of the week the local paper was reporting on the reason for the lane closures. a spokesperson for the port authority who oversees the bridge was quoted in the paper saying the port authority has conducted a week of study at the bridge of traffic safety patterns. we will now review those results and determine the best traffic patterns. we'll continue to work with our local law enforcement partners. now, that was about all the information the record could get from the port authority on that day because as the reporter went on to report quote, answers to basic follow-up questions, what was the goal who authorized the plan and why didn't they warn motorists about it were met with stone cold silence. but it was at least more than the port authority that gave the mayor of ft. lee when he

inquired why his town had been brought to a standstill. mayor mark sokolich told the record that quote, i've asked the port for an explanation but they haven't responded. i thought we had a good relationship but i'm beginning to wonder if there's something i did wrong. am i being sent some sort of message? as we found out from the private messages obtained this week by the bergen record the answers began nearly a month before that grueling commute, and of all places the personal e-mail account of one of governor chris christie's top aides. august 13th an e-mail sent from christie's then deputy chief of staff bridget ankly read time for some traffic problems in ft. lee. the recipient david wildstein was governor christie's supplying director to the port authority. they shut down the lanes bringing traffic on the bridge

and to ft. lee to a complete stop and oin day two the mayor mark sokolich sent his text message to bill. that one said presently we have four very busy traffic lanes merging into only one toll booth and the bigger problem is getting kids to school. help, please. it's maddening. within minutes, this text message is sent to wildstein from someone who is unnamed in the redacted documents. is it wrong that i'm smiling? wildstein responds no. the other person says i feel badly about the kids i guess. wildstein says they are the children of buono voters. there we get the first oefd the working theory about the real reasons behind the orchestrated traffic jam.

political retribution against those who did not support chris christie in the election and in particular in favor of mayor sock vich who supported buono instead. the mayor texts ba ronny one of christie's at the port authority, we should talk. someone needs to tell me that the recent traffic debacle was not punitive in nation. they suggest that the people they're speaking with absolutely believe it to be punishment. by october reporters were joined in their inquiry but new jersey lem laters who want to know who ordered the lane closures and the reason why. after chris christie won the november election he made his first camera appearance to address the developing story. he said this. >> i work the cones actually matt. unbeknownst to everybody i was actually out there. i was in overalls in a hat

working the cones. you're really not seriously asking that question. >> he was asked again. two of his port authority appointees have resigned. this time the governor is a bit more serious with the answer. >> i've spoken to everybody on my staff and asked everybody around here and my campaign maybe jer if they knew anything more about this that they didn't already know and they've told me no and so you know the chief of staff and the chief counsel assure me that they feel comfortable that they have all the information we need to have. >> okay. so that was a month ago, which brinks us to where we are today. on thursday the u.s. attorney for new jersey announced his office is reviewing the facts to quote, determine whether a federal law was implicated. former democratic gubernatorial candidate barbara buono called on the department of justice to get involved, and later that day chris christie held his most

recent press conference for nearly two hours before reporters in which he announced he fired bridget anne kelly. he denied any acknowledge mbl or decision to close the lanes. >> i know. it was a long story and quite con voer luted but it's nowhere near the end and despite hesitate wanting to distance himself, he remains right in the middle. michael isikoff. michael, i understand you've been poring over thousands of pages of documents and the assembly transportation public works and independent public authority released on the bridge delays just yesterday. so what have you found? >> reporter: well, actually there's some breaking news right now on this. one of the e-mails that was released yesterday which people are just noticing is there's an

e-mail chain in which patrick foy, the expectative director of the port authority writes this absolutely furious e-mail saying these lane closures are abusive, ill-considered, a threat to public safety, and one of -- and that's on september 13th one of christie's people at the port authority, barrone, the deputy director forwards that to a woman named gina gia and is now his top chief of staff. it says urgent priority high, importance, high. so there's no indication whether or not she responded to that but i just spoke a little while ago with the chief spokesman for the assembly democrats, and he said -- tom hester. he said this i'm puts foy's

complaint about those traffic jams right into the governor's office. it makes gina gia, christie's chief of staff a candidate for subpoena and that john wisniewski, the chair of the panel who was investigating this wanted to know what she knew, how she responded to the i'm and perhaps most performly you've played the clip. he was to answer within an hour. he sid he did that about a month ago. well what did his now chief of staff regina gia say in response to that request? >> so look. it's just one i'm. it's a little bit cryptic. all we know it was forwarded to her. whether she saw it whether she paid attention to it we don't know. but it's an e-mail chain that's going raise a lot of questions today. >> michael quickly, i want to ask you one question here. in the very long press conference we have the governor says very clearly now on record

that he was not involved in this. given that there are continuing subpoenas and this is going to keep moorking forward. is this going to become a problem for him? >> i just told you, melissa, we have this chief of staff who was informed about this. you're getting very close to him at this point. you obviously have his deputy chief of staff bridget kelly who was fired this week because she clearly knew something about this. look. there's no smoking gun that proves christie knew about this. but you have david wildstein who took the fifth amendment this week. his lawyer said if he gets immunity he'll tell what he knows. it's likely others will get criminal subpoenas. including bridget kelly are going to take the same route. they've got a constitutional right not to testify when there's a criminal investigation

going on. so it's hard to sayee how he can answer when the top people involved are invoking the fifth amendment and not testifying. for him to have a creditbling presidential run, at a minimum they're going want to have the full story here and unless we hear from all the key witnesses including wildstein, it's going to be hard to see how we get the full story. >> thank you michael. our nbc national correspondent michael isikoff. we're going to have more people to bring into this conversation as soon as i get back. but i want to get into one of the most important things that governor chris christie said at his press conference on thursday. pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. [ male announcer ] just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. [ corrine ] super poligrip is part of my life now.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit.

♪ ♪ say it with milk-bone. i just had a dream i was at mattress discounters with tempur-pedic and the largest selection of memory foam mattresses under one woof! icomfort by serta, optimum by posturepedic, comforpedic by beautyrest. ooh, 48 months interest-free financing, free delivery and queen size memory foam mattress sets as low as $697!

that's more mattresses than you could shake a bone at. ♪ mattress discounters ♪

>> i had no knowledge or involvement in this issue, in its planning or its execution. i had no knowledge of this, of the planning the execution or anything about it. >> i had no knowledge of this and neither did the chief of staff. >> just in case you missed it that was new jersey governor chris christie making it absolutely clear he had no knowledge of the decision to close lanes to the george washington bridge last september but not everyone is buying it. one of his most vocal skeptics is barbara buono. here's what she i had to say yesterday to my colleague thomas roberts. >> look. it's one of two things. the governor is lying or he's incompetent. my prediction is this. he will be leaving before his term is up but it won't be because he's running for president. >> author of "the swing vote: the untapped power of in pendant

pendants." christina beltran who's sew yacht professor of social and cultural naps of new york university and author of "the trouble with unity." and former special assistance to george w. bush thank you all for being here. i want to come to you as jersey guy and law professor in part because we have here a clear statement from governor christie saying i had nothing to do with it but we have these fifth amendment invocations that always feel unfair because you're always able to in evoke the fifth. >> the think that i think is important here you can't say i don't feel like answering, i plead the fifth. there's got to be a possibility of a legal conviction.

there is absolutely some possibility that david wildstein and whoever else pleads the fifth they could be charged and convicted on some sort of crime. we don't know what that is. to me that leads to criminal. if we know the people at the top are saying we might have done something criminal and the governor says i don't know about this, the fish rots from the head. that's the old expression. people from the top are doing something very shady. i tomato know what the governor actually knew but it doesn't look good. >> it doesn't look good if there are potential criminal charges involved and because we cannot at this table know what governor chris christie did or did not know, but we can know that it does not look good that this moment this level of discourse arounds this shifts suddenly who governor christie is from the kind of golden guy who is the republican winning a blue state

at 22 points to a guy who seems to be as his opponent said either incompetent or criminally involved. >> well, voters -- people who love chris christie thought he did great job in the press conference. people who don't thought it was more of the same old bullying grab. whenever a politician has to begin with "i am not," i am not a bully, i am not a crook, you know you very problems. the voters haven't made up their minds yet but i have eight words for you, "i did not have sex with that woman." if it turns out he was lying, there's a problem. for most voters there's not a problem if he wasn't lying. >> it's interesting. obviously clinton goes the full way on the legal in the sense that he does end up getting impeached but, of course he's not removed from office.

there's a question about whether there's something criminal happening but the president ends up being impeached but because of his politics he ends up not being removed from office in that moment. is this potentially run -- in other words do we get to learn just how genius or how incompetent politically the governor is? >> i think we do. one of two things, either the governor knew and he lied or second he had political staff who were doing things that would have political rhett tre bugs against a mayor who refused to endorse him for re-election. think therepeggy noonan had an interesting take on this yesterday. sometime they're so much more interested in getting that win and continuing to get that high from that as opposed to focus on what's right for the government. i think christie could find himself in a situation here.

>> as much as the notion that the fish rots from the head lelet me ask you were there axes to grind between the chief of staff and deputy chief of staff and folks at ft. lee? i mean there's a way in which like a gubernatorial race being mad at the mayor of ft. lee seems almost too heady. i mean let me work for the governor and say my husband is the mayor of ft. lee. you might get some scandal. is it possible there was some kind of political masslit mat political maturation? >> i do want to address one thing when we say the fish rots from the head. there's some interesting coral lairs you can draw. the president of the united states has not in many view

points has been forthcoming about what happened at benghazi where you had four people die. my thing is the media is making such a service of governor christie. no one died in this particular case but you have four innocent americans we still haven't got on the the truth about it. >> i appreciate sort of politically whau what you did there. that was good politics. i appreciate the turn of the stick in the mud to benghazi. i think, by the way, what we have seen suggests something very very different than what's going on here. all that being said hold for me. when we come back i want to talk specific about this and come to you on the question of scandal and whetherer not scandal is an appropriate way to thing about who should and should not be governing when we come back. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups.

[ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents the cold truth. i have the flu i took medicine but i still have symptoms. [ sneeze ] [ male announcer ] truth is not all flu products treat all your symptoms. what? [ male announcer ] nope, they don't have an antihistamine. really? [ male announcer ] really. [ dog whine ] but alka-seltzer plus severe cold and flu speeds relief to these eight symptoms. [ breath of relief ] thanks. [ male announcer ] you're welcome. ready? go. get it! [ male announcer ] can't find theraflu, try alka-seltzer plus for fast liquid cold and flu relief. i'm incredibly disappointed. i'm stunned about it.

what does it make me ask about me? it makes me ask about me what did i do wrong to have these folks think it was okay to lie to me? and there's a lot of soul searching that goes around with this. >> my feelings my soul my searching, me. you know i wanted to ask you in part because there was like -- there was a lot of interesting politics going on about taking some kind of responsibility deflecting other kinds but i just kept thinking all right, it feels these days a public official can be taken down by scandal and some scandals are exactly the right kind of scandals to take down. watergate. and other scandals feel like they're ginned up sorts of things that take people down when affect they don't tell us much about how they govern. first what do you think and secondly what kind of scandal is this one? >> i think it's very dangerous scandal partly because it fits into the large eer narrative of what people have about chris

christie. the bully, petty, vindictive local, willing to punish people that don't obey him. i think this is the kind of scandal that doesn't go away and because it affects daily lies. its was a commute. it has a way of kind of growing. i think the other aspect of this that's important and why it might also stick is something we talked about earlier is a lot of voters in new jersey volted for christie not bust they voted his policies but because they supported the man. they liked the person more than they liked the policies. i think when you're that kind of politician and people no longer like you, they don't have any policy. they're just scaffolding to hold onto support. when people didn't like clinton, they liked his politics. i don't like you personally but i like the public choices -- >> what you do thing about bill clinton. >> so the problem for christie is he had a lot of appeal based

whon he was rather than what he believed -- based on what he believes. so now i think is going to stick in a certain kind of way precisely because of that. >> cristina says this goes against the kind of brand he was trying to craft for himself. >> yeah. that's a big problem for christie right now. hi tried to build a brand by saying i get stuff done. i work with democrats to get things done and the reality of what we see is he and his top people, regardless of what he knew, he has a mode of operating in which this is bullying petty behavior. he can't come and say i work with people. i'm cooperative sometimes. sometimes you have to be tough. his whole brand has to be reexamined. that's going to be the big challenge going forward. that's gone. we see what he is really like. we're seeing true colors of him and all the people around him. >> the other piece of his brand is i'm the kind of guy that will stand up and speak the truth, right? and you saw a kind of

renaissance, a kind of reluctance to speak to those sorts of things in the most. let me ask you. you brought up benghazi earlier and i really don't want to get into the benghazi weeds but i think there's a question of brands, the administration as well that i want to connect all of these things. this idea that part of what people love about the obama administration is the sense of hope and connection moving forward with the country and part of why politically benghazi has been such a useful battering ram for the right is it does seem to shift away from the hopeful admission of the obama administration. >> christie, obviously he appeared with the president. >> he didn't just appeared with the president. he snuggled him. >> he snuggled him. his brand is as we've talked about, i work for the people i am a straight shooter, i care about the peemople i can carry a

blue state big. i'm going to run up the board. i attract independent voters, i attract democratic voters. with the clip you just showed me i'm sad, i'm frustrated. what about the tens of thousands that sat in traffic, the ambulances that couldn't get through. what voters and especially swing voters that elected chris christie want to know is he working for us? does he care about us or is he just like any other politician? he sold himself as being not like any other politician but this was like any other politician. >> right. not about you. what about me. we're going to talk about the voters as see anoon as we get back. what those numbers mean for politicians like governor christie. ♪♪ should not all those presents make the cut ♪ ♪ no need to chuck, donate or burn them ♪ ♪ just pack them in our flat rate box ♪ ♪ we'll come to your door and return them ♪ ♪ gifts you bought but never gave away ♪ ♪ or said you liked but thought were cheesy ♪ ♪ you don't even need

to leave your house ♪ ♪ we'll come and take them, easy-peasy ♪ [ female announcer ] no one returns the holidays like the u.s. postal service. with improved priority mail flat rate just print a label, schedule a pickup and return those gifts at a same low flat rate. [ male announcer ] the person who said, "if you love something, set it free" probably wasn't talking about dollars. pretty much everybody wants to keep those. ♪ ♪ most car insurance companies know this -- because they keep yelling about it. only they don't say how they're saving those dollars. ♪ ♪ but esurance was born online raised by technology and majors in efficiency. when they save, you save. so you can keep your dollars. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call.

i was going to the library to do my homework. it took a lot of juggling to keep it all together. for some low-income families having broadband internet is a faraway dream. so we created internet essentials, america's largest low-cost internet adoption program. having the internet at home means she has to go no further than the kitchen table to do her homework. now, more than one million americans have been connected at home. it makes it so much better to do homework, when you're at home. welcome to what's next. comcastnbcuniversal.

last fourees to be my job as governor of new jersey

republican, democrat independent, or unaffiliated. >> now that's the chris christie we're used to hearing. before the scandal of the george washington bridge erupted he was known to appeal to a broad section of voters. he was voted with more than 60% of the vote. he won nearly 80% of the independent vote. those independent voters could be key in any christi presidential campaign and according to a gallup poll they are a growing group. they found in the first time in history in telephone interview, 45% of americans identify themselves as independents. that's more than 31% who call themselves democrat and the 25% who identify as republicans. but not so fast. before we start to declare today independence day, i want you to pause with me for a moment and take look at another graphic. as you see here in the pie chart from the 2012 "washington post" kaiser foundation study, the vast majority of people who

claim to be independent are really just partisans in independent clothing. according to the survey true independents, the ones you see there labeled as liberators comprise no more than 13%. so i know this your wheelhouse, the swing vote. and you and i have really disagreed on this because you know my -- the mother's milk of my ph.d. program, right, is that the myth of the independent voter, the idea that independent voters actually are leaners, that leerns behave pretty much like how weak partisans behavior and i want to show you this from the april 2012 gallop survey. the main thing enpen accidents do is not show up. conservative republicans, moderate republicans, 88% turn out. pure independents 50% turn out. the main thing they do is stay home. >> okay. so here's some myths that i want

to bust because i feel really strongly about this. independent voters feel really strongly about this and i e-mailed them, my little focus group around the country. what choice do they have? people say that they're leaper but where's the independent part for them to photo for. so they have to make a choice. they have to vote democrat or republican because they have no choice but of that 42%, highest ever since gallup has been keeping track, i think exit polling, academic studies, i think a good 20% are true swing voters. they vote sometimes for democrats, republicans, they mix up their ballot. i did focus groups with them. they have a mix of views, they're more liberal -- >> i hear you, but that said we just do live actually in an increasely partisan environment rather than in an increasingly

independent environment. i mean all of the evidence suggests that more are likely to the urn out the vote and right now partisan identification almost overexplains what we know. >> right. i almost think in some ways a lot of this has to do with civic engagement and literacy. which are engaged in questions and which are not. one of the usual things about chris christie is he became a symbol of bipartisanship. i think it's fascinating in way. what did he really do? i mean really. he survived and was competent during a national disaster and was civil to the president and took the check. but this is how they do. >> if you just managed to not spit on the president, you're a moderate. >> that is such a low ball for partisan. >> shep:. this is not courage. this is i was friendly with the president during a contentious election. so i really do wonder about it. i think we sort of fetishize independent voters. i think we think they're --

>> i think they're deciding. if you look at the last election cycle, president obama carried the independent vote. so many are so dissatisfied with i'm a republican i'm a partisan democrat. no. i'm independent minded. i have my own views and thoughts but there are certain instances where you have to caucus with a party, say, virginia for example where i vote. we saw this. the millennials say i don't want to. i'm independent minded. i think that's the precursor. >> i want to ask about that. there's two different ways to see that moment to say i don't want to identify with a party. one is i'm independent minded and sometimes might choose one party over another and the other, i'm disgusted so for me the bridge scandal suggests not so much that it makes people independent minded but rather it makes them disgusted and then they opt oust politics all together which is not so good for the country. >> you can also compare this with the approval ratings of

congress. all-time lows. people's faith in our government is too low. what we're seeing is the government shutdown partisan. >> shep:. this current incident. whatever it turns out to be it's nothing that's going to take their confidence in the system down. that also has an effect on politics. that's all you have. but you don't like government. we you're not going to like the petrs either. it's a big problem we've got. >> it's such a good point about faith in government. typically when you have an argumenter about faith in government you can literally point to roads. what you literally say is you don't like government but i bet you like your roads. even that most basic function is undermined. >> even the roads are being clogged and when it's possible the people aren't going to get to work, they go those are the answers of my opponent? that's disgraceful. >> all right. lillian killian, thank you so much. that would be ridiculous.

linda killian. thank you so much. coming up, my letter of the week. first news of the week. area sharon has died. he's been in a coma since 2006 after suffering a stroke. he was a powerful and often controversial. he was known as the bulldoze fehr stopping at nothing. he was a champion of jewish settlers and expanding the borders. he stunned the world by ordering the evacuation of jewish settlers from gaza. ariel sharon was 85. we'll be right back. chicken caws ] [ male announcer ] when your favorite food starts a fight fight back fast with tums. heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum tums! ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ more than 1,300 same-sex couples we see in utah 17 days after the judge struck down the state's one man/one woman marriage law an before the supreme court issued a temporary stay of that order. now the comes are in serious

limbo. they told agencies not to recognize the marriage licenses when considering applications for state issued benefits. in the words of his chief of staff, the state recognition of same-sex marriage is on hold until further notice. on hold all caps. the newlywed same-sex couples can not enjoy state advantages. they can't exchange names on driver's licenses adopt state's children or file cases jointly until the matter is settled by the appeals court. but it's been answered unequivocally and that's why my letter this week is to u.s. attorney eric holder. dear attorney general eric holder, it's me melissa. let ee take a look at a video statement you issued this friday. >> i'm con girling today that for purposes of federal law, these marriages will be recognized as lawful and considered for el ilkable benefits on the same terms as

other same-sex marriages. these families should not be asked to endure uncertainty regarding their status as the litigation unfolds. >> now, mr. holder you said that really calmly almost kind of boring actually, no offense but i want to pump up the volume a little bit because i don't want to lose sight of the fact that what you're saying is a really big deal. you're saying utah will recognize the 1,300 same-sex marriages even though the state won't. they can get health insurance benefits and the ability to sponsor a spouse for a visa. they might be putting those marriages in utah on hold but you mr. attorney general and the federal government aren't waiting. all those newlyweds out there, their marriage is legal in the eyes of the federal government. and this from a member of an administration that has been criticized and villainized and

demonized for overstepping its bounds and stamping on lives, but mr. attorney general, did you care about that perception? no. you just kind of let that thing roll off your back like a duck lets water roll off its. now, we know you, mr. attorney general, and you are much calmer and more measured than i would be when speaking about these things. >> we will continue to coordinate across the federal government to ensure the timely provision of every federal benefit to which utah couples and couples throughout the country are entitled regardless of whether they are in same-sex or opposite sex marriages. >> see, attorney general holder. you're deceptive that way like a duck. calm and cool on the surface, gliding along all easy peasy, but under water your feet are paddling furiously propelling this country toward justice through the waters of equality. now, i do have one request. if the utah marriage ban is upheld, the state invalidated

those 1,300 marriage i hope that you're going to continue to recognize those marriages as valid even if the state refuses to do so. keep paddling mr. attorney general, sincerely, melissa. [ male announcer ] this is the story of the dusty basement at 1406 35th street the old dining table at 25th and hoffman. ...and the little room above the strip mall off roble avenue. ♪ this magic moment ♪ it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] winter olympian ted ligety can't take a sick day tomorrow. [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] so he can't let a cold keep him up tonight. vicks nyquil. powerful nighttime 6 symptom cold and flu relief. ♪ ♪

there's a new form of innovation taking shape. at a company that's bringing media and technology together. next is every second of nbcuniversal's coverage 0f the 2014 olympic winter games. it's connecting over one million low-income americans to broadband internet at home. it's a place named one america's most veteran friendly employers. next is information and entertainment in ways you never thought possible. welcome to what's next. comcastnbcuniversal.

this week the u.s. house of representatives majority leader eric cantor took a swiek at a surprising tar get, new york city mayor bill de blasio. cantor gave a speech on monday. he singled out de blasio for his campaign promises to begin charging new york charter schools rent for sharing city owned space with public schools. cantor claimed that to charge rent in the new york real estate market would shut down charter schools around the city. >> just think, how many families are going to be harmed.

how many families are going to have their choice taken away if mayor de blasio pursues these policies. mayor de blasio should abandon this idea and should allow instead new york city's charter schools to flourish. >> mr. cantor also warned that the house committees will remain vigilant on the issue. mayor de blasio was quick to answer back telling reporter i don't typically look for advice from mayor cantor. joining us from class size matters which last year sued the city of new york to stop charter school koloco-locations. what was the suit? >> what we found is there is no issue more contentious than the issue of co-located charters. they have more computers and often the kids in existing

public school get pushed out of their classrooms, that irart rooms, their libraries. even kids with special needs get pushed out of the rooms they need for their special mandated services. right now the independent budget office has estimated that kids in charter schools in co-hfkoloco-inco in co--located skoods. that causes tremendous struf among parents, teachers and kids. >> now i have been real clear over the course of the charter schools, particularly as they have come in and taken over for example, in new orleans. i don't have children in new york schools. it feels like new york has a

better appropriate mix of what we think makes sense, private religious, private secular, private charter, public charter and public schools so i'm not a fan of a system being all one thing. am i wrong? is there a move for your the charter schools to take over the public schools? >> well, during the bloomberg administration we had an increase from 17 charters to over 200 and it's taken $1 billion a year out of our education budget so there is a perception that the charter sector is growing very very rapidly in in new york city primarily because of the provision of free space and surpss which we believe violates state law. not only that but there really is the perception and actually the evidence to show that charter schools enroll fewer high needs kids fewer special education kids english language learners and kids below the poverty line. so while they're getting con is senn traded with the least

amount of space and resources to deal with them. >> i want to back up to politics. it is a little surprising to see eric cantor yell at the mayor. that is the official kind of punching down. i have a theory that i want to float. i want to see if either one of you agree or think i'm nuts on. is it possible that the one clear bipartisan position that democrats and republicans have taken has been on this school choice narrative and that from the obama administration down to democratic mayors like rahm emanuel, the notion is that there is broad agreement on school choice and so by going after de blasio cantor actually will end up isolating him from the democratic party that's already decided to make this kind of rightward shift on school choice and by sort of isolating de blasio also isolates the progressionism. that's my conspiracy theory of what is happening in this moment. >> i would say it's somewhat

safe maybe is what you're saying for eric cantor to go after this issue where there is a lot of agreement on these questions but what still doesn't make sense is why this man from virginia in the federal government is going after a local official. every day ask eric cantor what's so important. he'll say state rights. now he turns here. maybe you want to add to your con spir senior here. i don't know if it's hypocrisy to add to it. it's a safe issue for republicans to agree on. >> i do want to read it. he was, in fact asked about that hypocrisy and there was a response and the response was basically look mr. cantor believes that local officials should be able to be in control of their own circumstances. so this is megan whitmore who's his secretary. he has to -- he has no qualms about challenging political policy. >> he can have his opinions of course. that's exactly right.

i want to go back to the point there's nothing he can say or do that you can have this broad swell of democrats who's going to say he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. that's the honest truth. when mayor bloomberg came into office there were seven charter schools. now there are over 120. you are given a school of choice. one thing we talk about with d.c. is the d.c. hope scholar. >> shep: a lay loued them to go to a different school and have the money follow them. a lot of democratic opposition to this is wait a second. you're taking money out of the public schools when in reality it's the teachers unions. >> i hate to give you the last word on this but they're literally screaming at me in the control room as they sometimes do but i think both the politics and the policy of this remain important questions. thank you for being here today. still to come this morning, the redeeming qualities of hip-hop and the special treat we are most excited about. bill nye the science guy is

coming to nerd land. of course bill nye the science guy is coming to nerd land. there's more at the top of the hour. [ bottle ] okay, listen up! i'm here to get the lady of the house back on her feet. [ all gasp ] oj, veggies -- you're cool. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! 'cause i'm re-workin' the menu keeping her healthy and you on your toes. [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals antioxidants and 9 grams of protein. i see you, cupcake! uh-oh! [ bottle ] the number one doctor recommended brand. ensure®. nutrition in charge™. [ male announcer ] a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain and improve daily physical function so moving is easier. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain. and it's not a narcotic.

you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. ♪ ♪ at any minute... ...you could be a victim of fraud. most people don't even know it. fraud could mean lower credit scores... ...and higher interest rates

when you apply for a credit card. it's a problem waiting to happen. check your credit score, check your credit report at experian.com. america's number one provider of online credit reports and scores. don't take chances. go to experian.com. ♪ ♪ we're gonna be late. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ oh are we early? [ male announcer ] commute your way with the bold, all-new nissan rogue. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] welcome back all the sweet things your family loves with 0-calorie monk fruit in the raw. it's made with the vine-ripened sweetness of fruit, so you can serve up deliciously sweet treats without all the sugar.

get recipes at intheraw.com. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. i don't know about you but i was so glad when wednesday rolled around because that meant the polar vortex was over. it resulted in one of the coldest art tick outbreak in our country in nearly two decades, sending the temperatures down to the minus 20s and 30s in new orleans. look. new orleanians are resilient but there's a reason we live there. that didn't stop opinions like this one from rush limbaugh who said during his monday show that we're having a record-breaking cold snap in many parts of the country and right on schedule

the media has come up with a way to make it sound like it's unprecedented. they've got to find a way to attach this. it's called the polar vortex. do you know what the polar vortex is? have you ever heard of it? well, they've just created it this week. limbaugh's assertion was con trow verted by none other than al. he followed that with rush limbaugh's claim is that it's a left winged media conspiracy. it's meteorologist 101. no political agenda but our mr. roker was not done. he took the airways to squash the polar vortex deniers once and for all. >> lot of folks are saying there's no polar vortex and it's some left-winged media conspiracy. let me tell you we've never used

the phrase global warming or climate change in conjunction with this. take a look at this right here. okay? polar vortex there it is. large-scale sigh clomic circulation in the upper trow goes fear in two centers, juan in batten island another over northeastern siberia. okay? for all of the doubters out there, stuff it. >> dang. al roker is riled up and think it is pretty clear where he stands on this one but there is still the issue of climate change deniers. here's the republican senator from oklahoma on the floor of the senate this week. >> there's been a concerted effort of people to believe that global warming is taking place and we're all going to die and all of that. at the same time the evidence out there is just -- it's almost laughable. >> senator, we all are going to die. i'm just saying. this is no laughing matter. it is quite serious. the senator is trying to use cold weather to refute global

warming and is not acknowledging that it results in extreme weather events. according to scientific reports, global climate change just might be the cause of the record-breaking cold spell. it could have been triggered by a sudden stratospheric warming event. people will express and hold different opinions, but valuing our right to disagree does not mean we can is nor data. it does not mean that all conclusions drawn from data are equally relevant. even political conversations should follow some basic rules of the scientific process. propose a high pocket sis, draw conclusions only to the extent they're supported by the data. repeat. at the table, brian walsh, a senior writer for "time" magazine who covers energy in the environmental. anthony lizerowicz. there you go. me and names. climate change communication and professor cristina beltran and daily beast columnist and bill

nye the science guy. so nice to have you. >> it's so good to be had. >> indeed, it is. bill, will it me start with you. can you explain in the simplest terms possible how it is possible for cold weather to be the result of global warming? >> well it's a shift in weather patterns, so many of us are familiar with the jet stream. it dipped especially low this time of year. that dice to a change of the whirlpool or circular wind above the north pole. so as the arctic ice melts, as the extent of ice changes, the amount of sunlight that's reflected from the surface around the polls changes and that can change the pattern and cause this circular wind this cyclonic flow of air, to dip a little farther south or in the case of new orleans, quite a bit farther south. now, it's the kind of thing

that's so subtle. this is to say this effect lasts just a few days. so tying it directly but with a computer model or with the satellite data tying it directly to a much larger fe nonnonof global climate change is difficult. >> yeah. >> however, it is consistent with what you'd expect as the ice melts, as there's more heat in the atmosphere and as weather patterns children. >> part of what i appreciate about what you're talking about, it's complicated. not just that the words are words that we may not be used to hearing but also that we can't say this caused this right, that we just look for data and evidence and how they seem to be related. and similarly i think as we -- as we sort of think about, oh climate change agenda versus climate change denier that those also seem like categories that seem too stark. so i wanted to show anthony this sort of incredible graphic about how the american public looks at

this issue. in fact, it's not just deniers versus agenda pushers. it's actually six categories of the american public. you can't tell me about all six but maybe pick two of them, maybe the alarmed and dismissive and tell me who those folks are. >> we found that americans don't speak with a single voice. at one end of the spectrum are called the people who are alarmed. they highly support policy and at the other end of the policy are those that call it dismissive, those confirmly convinced it's not happening, not a cause and they consider it a hoax that scientists are making it up and many other variants, but in between those two extremes you have 70% of the american public. that's where the bulk of the public is not at the two extremes and yet those two extremes are generally what we hear about in the shouting,up in the media. >> let me ask you a little bit about this shouting and ask whether or not it makes sense to

be shouting over something that does seem empirically based. i'm recognizing the data are neutral and we draw conclusions from data and that reasonable and smart people can draw different kinds of conclusions from the same data but there does seem to be a trend toward not falsifying the high pocket sis that there is climate change. why can't we agree on that right? as a basic set of scientific precepts outside of politics. >> it's difficult because science, they work at different time scales. when it comes to science, this is a theory with global warming that's been built up over decades of research very slow to change slow to adjust to any differences that are happening on a day by day schedule. so you see that sort of jump from it's cold outside to suddenly it exists to now it's 20 degrees above normal in new york city. does that mean it exists? but sciences work that way. >> yeah.

but the idea that not only science does not work that way because i like the science of being on two different time horizons, it does seem like the precepts houf you make a scientific argument you seem to falsify your point. you actually look to data to prove your viewpoint wrong to see if it's robust enough to stand up against it and it's very hard for me to make up claims that we in the political world operate they that we set out a high pocket sis. >> i would say from a political perceptive you say you have a nobel physicist who resigned from the american fiscal society who said it's not incontrovertible that we have global warming. if you look at the last decade

it looks like it's cooled as opposed to have gotten up. you could have reasonable people disagree but it's all about politics. there's millions of dollars. you have folks who say there's global science and let's research it more. >> bill, tell me. can reasonable people disagree on this issue? >> not anymore. what makes it so difficult, when this was discovered especially by michael mann and rick and those guys they had to extract the information from very subtle changes in data and then they had to go back in time at first just about a thousand years and now about 10,000 years, by looking at ice course especially, bubbles trapped in ice. and so what would you -- i'd say to the viewers what would you be doing if you weren't washing this show? that's right. you'd be watching a rerun of

"csi," i'm sure so when you find the bubbles of ancient atmosphere trapped in the ice, that's the ancient atmosphere. there's no one running around with a needle skirting agent atmosphere into the ice. it's not that it hasn't been warmer in the past. it has been. it's the rate. it's the speed at which things are changing that ee un's unprecedented. >> you may have heard the comparison to a hockey stick how the weather goes like this and then like this like the shape of a hockey stick. i have a question for the political experts. what sit about human nature that makes us embrace this idea of a conspiracy? what makes -- i mean i don't know how much time you've spent with academics but some of these guys drive around in really fancy cars like honda accords and toyota selekas and

stuff. my point is when people discuss millions of dollars going into this research the kielkds of people who pursue this pursue it for the love of it the fascination with physics and so on. i will say i spend a lot of time in different cities i meet different meteorologists. the meteorologists these are weather people who have studied weather for the public good. they all accept climate change and they're very concerned about it. but there is this tone that comes generally from networks to not bring it up on the air because of the controversy. >> bill, stay with me because as soon waez get back -- >> where does that come back. >> -- i'm going to get cristina beltran to answer your question when we get back. connected to more standard horsepower than its german competitors. and that is the moment that driving the lexus gs will shift your perception. this is the pursuit of perfection. [ male announcer ] winter olympian

ted ligety can't take a sick day tomorrow. [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] so he can't let a cold keep him up tonight. vicks nyquil. powerful nighttime 6 symptom cold and flu relief. ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] who are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. hey guys! sorry we're late. did

you run into traffic? no, just had to stop by the house to grab a few things. you stopped by the house? uh-huh. yea. alright, whenever you get your stuff, run upstairs get cleaned up for dinner. you leave the house in good shape? yea. yea, of course. ♪ ♪ [ sportscaster talking on tv ] last-second field go-- yea, sure ya did. [ male announcer ] introducing at&t digital life. personalized home security and automation. get professionally monitored security for just $29.99 a month. with limited availability in select markets. ♪ ♪ to rol [ male announcer ] marie callender's knows you may not have time to roll out a perfectly flaky crust that's made from scratch. or mix vegetables with all white meat chicken and homemade gravy. but marie callender's does. just sit down and savor. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

all right. we're back around talking about the politics of science. i ask bill nye, why do we like conspiracy theories. why are we so attached to the idea that somebody may be putting ancient bubbles in our ice. >> the giant mysterious plot. i think it's the idea of clarify and closure. conspiracy theories are so satisfying because there's plan. there's a terrifying feeling in politics where there is no plan. so i think conspiracy theories mean people are thinking about you and they have a plan. in the realm of politics when they don't think about you, that's more unsettling. the other thing i want to point out, this is an instance when strifts are the most. they want to destabilize. democrats want to talk about facts and truth and science, but conservatives underthe power of

language games. they understand that these ideas are socially constructed or that facts are socially constructed and they understand about power. one of the interesting things is they keep saying let's keep discussing it. it's very clashing. clark, but really it's about postponing agreement and postponing consensus and unsettling agreement. it's not about reaching agreement. it's about unsettling and postponing and i think it's very interesting they are the people who are playing it so effectively on the public page. >> let me ask u about 50 years ago when they were less modern and that is 50 years ago this week the surgeon general comes out and says smoking is bad for your health right? and there was a time a tough week i was having i could have been smoking on air as many of my colleagues did 50 years ago, right, when you would see them smoking on air. after that landmark study which had an equal number of smokers

and nonsmokers there was this definitive moment. they came out, said smoking was bad. we had different kind of policies. is that possible? could you convene a panel and come up with an answer that would then drive policy down? >> i don't i don't know. is it possible? >> there has been a coming together of the scientific establishment repeatedly over several decades where they say, it is clear, climate challenge is happening. ice it's human caused. there are things we can do right now to address this issue. >> but it's not driving policy in part because people don't seem to believe. i guess part of it is when the surgeon general said it 50 years ago, we acted on it. >> remember there was a big industry that was very happy with the status quo and, in fact the tobacco industry developed an entire strategy one that has been adopted and

drafted directly into climate challenge using sol of the key strategies which is keep people confused. as long as people agree the scientists do not agree as we just heard, they'll say, you know why take action because it's not clear yet. >> and it's important to note, right, that 50 years ago when that pronouncement came out, it was made on a saturday, specifically not to impact the markets, right because there were big economic interests. >> it still took decades for the tobacco wars to come close to ending. there was a line that our product is down for 30-plus years. they fought a rear guard action to create increasing doubt about these conclusions. this isn't really new. i mean it's harder i think for the average person to connect climate conditions to it because it is more complicated. well if you smoke a cigarette it doesn't seem right for you. >> stay with us everybody.

because i'm going go back to bill nye the science guy who's still with us. we're going to talk more about this question but i'm going to ask bill about the space where science and faith collide when we come back. to remove makeup. and bright on schedule eye roller to instantly de-puff. for instant beauty sleep no sleep required. new fresh effects from olay. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

if you've got copd like me... ...hey breathing's hard. know the feeling? copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms.

tell your doctor if you have kidney problems glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens your throat or tongue swells you get hives, vision changes or eye pain or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? don't wait to ask your doctor about spiriva. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents the cold truth. i have the flu i took medicine but i still have symptoms. [ sneeze ] [ male announcer ] truth is not all flu products treat all your symptoms. what? [ male announcer ] nope, they don't have an antihistamine. really? [ male announcer ] really. [ dog whine ] but alka-seltzer plus severe cold and flu speeds relief to these eight symptoms. [ breath of relief ] thanks. [ male announcer ] you're welcome. ready? go. get it! [ male announcer

] can't find theraflu, try alka-seltzer plus for fast liquid cold and flu relief. according to a recent pull poll 60% believe in evolution and 30% reject it. here's what i find interesting. between 2009 and 2013 the number of democrats who believe in evolution has increased from 64% to 67%. in the same time frame the percentage of republicans who believe in evolution has falled from 54% to 43%. it has not produced any new findings in the past four years that account for the change in evolution. this polarization is about the evolution driven in politics not in science. and the issue is so hot that next month bill nye the science

guy who has repeatedly defended evolution will head to kentucky for a debate with the founder of the creation museum ken hamm. bill, will it me bring you in here. this has become a partisan issue so that science and evidence don't seem to impact much what people believe. >> this is a strange fephenomenon. let me emphasize again. i don't have a problem with anybody's religion. knock yourself out. the thing that's concerned is evolution is a fact. it's how we all came to be and the main thing for me is the earth is not 10,000 or 6,000 years old. it's not. the evidence is overwhelming. and if you have a dne that's going to put all this stuff here to trick you, that is one mean-spirited deity.

i have no problem with anyone's religion but we depend on our understanding of evolution to make flu vaccines to breed our favorite kind of dog, to make all the food we eat. this is through our understanding of genetics and evolution. so it is the fundamental idea in all of life science and so when we slip behind when we allow a generation of science students to not embrace it and not come to understand this sort of -- the bottom-up quality of it rather than the top down perception of it this is troubling because it affects the economy. if we produce a class or several classes of students who don't understand the process of science, the united states will not innovate it will not create, we will not invent and we will be outcompeted by those societies that do. >> let me ask you a question. one of the things that i find interesting also from this pew poll is how people have been

reconciling their religious believes with their evolution air evidence. there's this whole group of people who say i believe in evolution, but i also believe that a divine intervener or an intelligent mover is the thing that actually moves it. so 32% say it's natural causes. 24% say there's a supreme being playing a roll. is there any reason sort of scientifically to see that with a set of faith claims with the evidence of evolution as prop problematic? >> i don't have a problem with it. as we say, you can't know if there is a deity that created the, let's say for example the big bane 13.7 billion years ago and we're all a result of that process. that's unfalsifiable. could be. nevertheless the process of evolution is real. we all -- everybody that we can find on the earth has the same type of dna.

people have speculated. we can find it without dna for example. that would be an amazing fantastic discovery worth pursuing pursuing. but nevertheless ancient dinosaurs did walk the earth. >> and not people. >> and, so -- yeah not at with people. and so the discoveries that were made just in the last 150 years have utterly changed the world, and so to us in science education especially this is exciting and wonderful and worth pursuing and embracing and the practical obligations of it are overwhelming. we used to have 1 billion, 1.5 billion humans in the world. now have almost 7, 7.2 billion people and we're able to feed them because of science.

we all like our smartphones. we're talking on a television on the other side of the continent. how many people do you fwhoe have not had a life-saving medical procedure, appendectomy taken antibiotic drugs. these are all a result of understanding science. this is the other irony. >> hold on for one second. i want to bring brian into this quickly. i want to ask. as a public opinion researcher is it possible that people don't understand the question? so when people are telling -- researchers, brians that they do or don't believe in evolution, is it possible they don't know what evolution is what they say they believe? >> i think that's quite possible. if you quiz people on the exact details of evolution, i suspect a lot of people wouldn't be able to answer that very well. it could be a proxy, do i trust what scientists are telling me or do i feel my other beliefs are so strong that this is threatening and i have to reject

it. >> the ideal that this is top down, i think that's part of what i find distressing here. this idea that to choose schiens would mean to deny one's political or faith-based claims. >> there's an element of political and ideological identity here with both of these issues where dismissives are very afraid of clie mass change not because they're afraid of climate change the phenomenon but because they're afraid of the policy. they're afraid it will be used as a way to grow the sides of government to have more intervention over our individual freedoms so on and so forth. so as a result they're highly motivated to look for, cherry pick evidence that seems to reaffirm what they believe that this is all made up because it's a liberal hoax. >> i want to ask you this. you hear so much about the future of the republican party and the question of can you get young voters can you get black and brown voters but what about just saying that part of what republicans will have to based

on bill's point about the need to compete internationally, globally, is to say we believe in science. facts, data and evidence, and we may have disagreements over all sorts of important policy issues, but we're not going to fight anymore about what constitutes empirical evidence or what cons stugts the kiemt of agreement we can come to. >> i think republicans have identified and democrats as well that the protocols, -- why should the united states be curbing carbon emissions when china and japan aren't held to the same level? i tlink's an argument to be held but i think as part of the united states we're still a coal-burning electric company but before we put our arms behind our backes, we need to make sure the science is right. >> the argument about what we would do vis-a-vis policy and

international affairs is a perfectly fair argument, and bill, won't have a few seconds, but, bill i do want you to suggest it. we heard at the table we've gonet to make sure the sunshine is right. is there any reason to believe that either on the issue of revolution or on the issue of climate change, is there a debate among scientists interested in pure science, not in policy making that either is still up for debate? >> i would say no. evolution is fact. evolution is how we all got here. it's striking. i've got to tell you, it's striking that you would ask me that question. ite verse much like asking is the earth round or i could go on. >> no, bill. >> it's like asking are their tech tronnic plates. is it a real thing. yeah it's the fundamental.

i want to emphasize with you. economic advantage that you have when you have a scientifically literal society and this is where i just -- one last thing. this is where the space program is unique. you cannot be first in the world and second in space exploration. >> yep. >> and this is some extraordinary value. it's unique to the united states. and as a guy who grew up here i want my country to succeed. and so we want to have scientifically literal students as they're graduating. the time scale of this is not four or five years, one graduating class. it's 15 years, it's 20 years after these people get out of college and become captains of industry. thanks for having me. >> bill thanks so much and i'm so sorry we live in a world where i have to ask you is the earth round. bill nye the science guy from burbank this morning. bryan, anthony, and cristina all here from new york. up next the performance that really took me by surprise this week.

huh-uh. i ain't talking about dennis rodman. and the southbound bus barreling down i-95. ♪ this magic moment ♪ it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] eeny, meeny, miny, go. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ more adventures await in the new seven-passenger lexus gx. lease the 2014 gx 460 for $499 a month for 27 months. see your lexus dealer.

something with inemploy with cultural implications that happened in north korea. no, no no. i'm not talking about dennis rodman sinking "happy birthday" to his friend kim jong-un.

i'm talking about this. ♪ >> all right. that is a hip-hop video filmed inside north korea, possibly the first hip-hop video ever filmed inside north korea. at least we ever heard of. the young men pacman and pay sow made it to pyongyang on a sight-seeing tour. now, pacman and pay sow are from washington, d.c., and before now they had never been anywhere other than the east coast. when a "washington post" reporter asked them what they thought north korea would be like payeso shrugged. he said the same here. >> they said "here?

>>". >> he said neighborhoods with shooting, the killing. he elaborates the whole environment. >> hip-hop is not a musical genre. it's a methodology. a way of engaging the worrell. historic professor robin kelly argued his way, quote, hip-hop's challenge to police brutality sometimes moves. they have literally become weapons in the battle over the right to occupy public space. the right to occupy public space. since its founding hip-hop has enacted them from marginal communities to occupy public space on their own term from their graffiti on trains. to boom boxes which force people in public spaces to encounter their music, the laying claim to the rights of dance in a public area even without an official permit. the radical populist origins of hip-hop were about public art

taking over public space. so when i see pacman and peso go to film a video in north korea to both kre teak a toll therrien are jet stream and critique policies back in the united states, that feels like the hip-hop i remember and first fell in love with. another nexus of hip-hop and politics courtesy of a would-be senator from mississippi is next. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. check it out. i can't believe your mom has a mom cave! today i have new campbell's chunky spicy chicken quesadilla soup. she gives me chunky before every game. i'm very souperstitious.

haha, that's a good one! haha! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. ♪ ♪ [ cellphones beeping ] ♪ ♪ [ cellphone rings ] hello? [ male announcer ] over 12,000 financial advisors. good, good. good. over $700 billion dollars in assets under care. let me just put this away. [ male announcer ] how did edward jones get so big? could you teach our kids that trick? [ male announcer ] by not acting that way. ok, last quarter... [ male announcer ] it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ♪ ♪

[ bottle ] okay, listen up! i'm here to get the lady of the house back on her feet. [ all gasp ] oj, veggies -- you're cool. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! 'cause i'm re-workin' the menu keeping her healthy and you on your toes. [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals antioxidants and 9 grams of protein. i see you, cupcake! uh-oh! [ bottle

] the number one doctor recommended brand. ensure®. nutrition in charge™. [announcer] word is getting out. purina dog chow light & healthy is a deliciously tender and crunchy kibble blend. with 20% fewer calories than purina dog chow. isn't it time you discovered the lighter side of dog chow. purina dog chow light & healthy. meet daniel seeking one of the two state u.s. senate seat bus he used to be host of the radio program show called "right side radio" from 2004 to 2007. this week "mother jones" reported from an audio on that show obtained by the politics blog dark horse mississippi that allegedly features mcdaniel's voice saying quote, the reason canada is breaking out with brand-new gun violence has

nothing to to with the united states and guns. it has everything to do with a culture that's morally bankrupt. what kind of culture is that? it's called hip-hop. according to the recorded comments mr. mcdaniel also wondered this. name one redeeming quality about hip-hop. i want to know one thing good that it's done for this country. we asked if those were in fact his words. statement read in part any music regardless of genre that glorifies gun use, condones violence and abuse of women deserves to be critiqued. but for now i want to turn to my panel rapper producer writer and director jean grey. cultural critic joan morgan who is author of "when chicking heads come home to roost: my life as a hip hot editor".

so nice to have you all here. i'm going to turn to you, the question that was asked. name one thing that hip-hop has done for this country? >> it makes you wonder. its like have you just been under a rock for like the last 30 years? and i think the most frustrating thing is when these statements are made because they're made over and over and over again is that there's so much progressive work being done around hip hock from artists to academia and just because these people have not engaged it and selectively have not engaminged it you're having conversations like you had in 1988. >> yes. that idea in part that one would critique something that you have so little engagement in and part of what i thought was important what you said there, joan that i want to ask you about, jean it actually isn't just like mississippi state senator living under a rock somewhere. this moral pachbic about hip-hop caution all of these social and

cultural problems is often joined by the black middle class, by older folks and sometimes even by people who started out as hip-hop heads, but, oh, no, the new hip-hop is a problem. >> again it's interesting you said 1988. my first reaction to the statement is that i think it's so cool he hangs out with doc brown and has found a delorean in order go back in time you know, when we were talking about hip-hop being the scapegoat for things like that. we've progressed so much in that time and the blatant ignorance and disrespect. it's like if someone was talking about the collider oh it's the smashy thingy. speaking from such a place of ignorance, it can't be part of the conversation. >> so speaking of sort of what we think we know and don't know right, and, again, i think certainly mcdaniel is one person who said it but it's a narrative, right?

it's a narrative. when we look at the rise of hip-hop and violent crime, they actually depart. as hip-hop rises overall crime declines. it's like very visually available to us. what sit then that keeps this particular moral panic so attach attached in our discourse? >> i think as a kid who grew up in hip-hop -- i remember walking to the bus stop and trying to remember the lyrics to dmc. as a white kid it gave me insight to black america that we didn't have. we weren't accustomed to seeing that kind of lifestyle and it revealed a strug the country that was real and continues to be real. for people like mr. mcdaniel, they don't want to admit that hip-hop is a reflection of. it is showing that this is violence in our communities. there is drugs in our

communities. and instead of looking at the mirror and facing reality, they just want to break the mirror. >> hold on. let me ask you this. when you say i listened to hip-hop as a white kid and it gives me insight, you say it like you had a level of empathy. it made me feel as though i'm implicated and wanted to act. particularly by people again, whether they be black middle-class folks or whether they be white folks in all kinds of classes tends to be consumptive. i want to get some of that cool urban blackness to play on my radio but not connecting to the questions of struggle. >> yeah. but i think for some that is certainly the case. as i grew up i watched many of the kids i grew up with who fell apart from hip-hop and fell out of love with hip-hop but for many of us it kept the election going to us as sort of a high point of this cultural movement of young people black white, asian, latino gay straight,

for folks like mr. mcdaniel, he doesn't want that. >> let me go back because i like this idea that part of what hip-hop is young people on the margins who are in a struggle. if you want to answer the question name one redeeming thing, to me the answer is -- just the sonic past the culture itself. the culture itself should be judged as culture, right, because the music is just good right? the other part of it though it did suggest -- and again, whether it was through graffiti or break dancing or through rhyming that we have a voice and so many people who were silenced, it provided an opportunity for voice. is that too romantic a vision because, joan you are both a consumer of and a critic of hip-hop. >> i don't think it's too romantic a vision. i think it's an informed opinion and interpretation. you know hip-hop could not have become the billion-dollar global phenomena that it became if it didn't impact many lives in a variety of different ways.

and so for myself i was not -- i would not have been able to make an intervention in feminism in the way that i was if i didn't have hip-hop as my base and my starting ground. so i think that, you know there are countless examples of that. i do want to say i don't want to let chris mcdaniel off the hook for something very specific that he's doing there. i read his alleged statement and he said and before you say this is about race it's not about race. it is absolutely about race and how you talk about race in this time of post racial america where it's just not cool to be overtly racist. but you cannot separate the statement from the types of bodies that create the sort of hip-hop that he is talking about. and he was racializing and stigmatizing, and in that sort of tea party code fi indication to like you know, i'm aware that these black and brown bodies are a problem for you and i think thigher a problem erthey're

a problem too. so i think what he wu doing was extremely racially code feed and specifically racial politics aet this particular moment. >> stay with us. i have one last question on this and i'm going to take my normal foot soldier block to ask this question. i'm going to ask you to come back because i want to follow up on the global aspect and ask about the ways in which hip-hop has offered a kind of skepticism about the american project when we come back. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. [ dennis ] it's always the same dilemma -- who gets the allstate safe driving bonus check. rock beats scissors!

[ chuckles ] wife beats rock. and with two checks a year everyone wins. [ female announcer ] switch today and get two safe driving bonus checks a year for driving safely. only from allstate. call 866-906-8500 now. [ dennis ] zach really loves his new camera. problem is...this isn't zach. it's a friend of a friend who was at zach's party and stole his camera. but zach's got it covered... with allstate renters insurance. [ female announcer ] protect your valuables for as low as $4 a month when you add renters insurance to your allstate auto policy. call 866-906-8500 now. what are you doing? we're switching car insurance. why? because these guys are the cheapest. why? good question. because a cut-rate price could mean cut-rate protection. you should listen to this guy. [ female announcer ] with allstate you get great protection and a great price, plus an agent! drivers who switched saved an average of $498 a year. call now and see how much you can save. just a few more ways allstate is changing car insurance for good. [ female announcer ] call an allstate agent

we're back and responding to that question what has hip-hop done that is good or useful for the country. joan brought up the point, hip-hop is a global musical genre, and global culture. one of the things that seems to me that hip-hop has done that is useful to the country is create some skepticism about the american project. through its connections with south africa cuba kids in north korea suggesting that some of the places we are today as americans are off limits to us intellectually culturally or even in terms of travel in fact may have value, especially for those who are on the bottom of the men system. >> yes. and just discussing hip-hop has created jobs for kids. it's created creative outlets, you know, where they would normally -- might normally be doing something else. and i'm not saying every kid who was into rap otherwise would have been a drug dealer. but there is a lot of instances it's happened. and these kids being able to travel and get off their block and see something else and being able to be like okay even if i

just read about it or saw it on tv, i never got to really experience it. and to realize how much you're actually bonding with someone in another country. and it starts out because of hip-hop, and it start a discussion. and then you can talk about things that are so much more relatable. you can talk about politics you can talk about family. and realize how close we are as a whole. so it's opened doors all over the world. >> i'll never forget being in a nightclub in capetown south africa and they're playing biggy. >> and know every word. >> yeah. and you just felt like oh right? i am not just like this negro with a capital n who have no place from which i have from i am part of the african continent. >> i was in cuba in 1999 and we brought mose and khali and they were shocked. when they got on stage, every kid and 99 every kid knew every

word to black star every word to common. and as jean said there was a connection, a bond oh. i was in an ice cream store in ramala and heard rihanna, the same i heard in jerusalem. and the kids are bopping to the same rihanna record as in jerusalem. that's the power of hip-hop. >> it gives working class people a chance to connect outside the state. so when the state has a set of rules, hip-hop can evade those rules and allow these connections. jean, gray michael, thanks. that's our show for today. i'll see you tomorrow morning, 10:00 a.m. eastern. nbc news special anchor maria shriver joining us for one of our first looks at a brand-new shriver report. a woman's nation pushes back from the brink. it's a comprehensive exploration of the impact of poverty on women, and their families across the u.s. and what it might take to solve those problems. maria shriver will take us through her findings right here tomorrow morning on mhp.

now it's time for a preview of weekends with alex whit. >> thanks melissa. the latest on the george washington bridge traffic scandal. will anything in those 2,000 e-mails threaten chris christie's presidential aspirations. state of emergency in west virginia. hundreds of thousands are unable to use their tap water because of toxic chemicals. some surprise guests on the season finale of "alpha house." the show's executive producer shows what went on behind the scenes. and free college? a report says it could be done with money the government is already spending for college. don't go anywhere. i'll be right back.

♪ [ chainsaw whirring ] humans -- sometimes life trips us up. sometimes we trip ourselves up. and although the mistakes may seem to just keep coming at you so do the solutions. like multi-policy discounts from liberty mutual insurance. save up to 10% just for combining your auto and home insurance. call liberty mutual insurance at... [ thump ] to speak with an insurance expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. personalized coverage and savings. all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance.

responsibility. what's your policy? ♪ ♪ [ chicken caws ] [ male announcer ] when your favorite food starts a fight fight back fast with tums. heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum tums! ♪ target is revealing the security breach was much worse than originally thought, and now another high-end retailer says its shoppers may be in trouble, as well. thousands of pages of e-mails released in the george washington bridge scandal. whom do they implicate? edward snowden's story may hit the big screen soon.

in office politics my conversation with kathie lee gifford, she tells me how she and hoda the dynamic duo, came to be. hey there, everyone. it's high noon here in the east 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." the new jersey state assembly has released thousands of pages of e-mails text documents, related to the intentional traffic jam on the george washington bridge that developed into the biggest scandal of governor chris christie's tenure. among the revelations, furious e-mails from the port authority, questions about whether or not laws have been broken and warnings not to disclose anything to the public. come tuesday, though the assembly subpoena power will expire. so joining me now with the details, nbc national investigative correspondent, michael isikoff.