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good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. nerdland, today i want to talk about empathy. not just the empathy all of you should be having for me right now because of that new orleans loss last night, but, no, empathy in the biggest sense. the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes. to see what life might be like for them. to understand how your actions affect them. it seems like it should be a controversial thing, empathy, but we have seen otherwise. do you remember back in may of 2009, when supreme court justice, david souter, announced his retirement. here's what president obama said that he would look for in a replacement. >> i will seek someone who understands that justice isn't about some abstract legal theory or footnote in a case book. it is also about how our laws affect the daily realities of people's lives, whether they can make a living and care for their families. whether they feel safe in their

homes and welcome in their own nation. i view that quality of empathy, of understanding and identifying what people's hopes and struggles, as an essential ingredient for arriving at just decisions and outcomes. >> so this wasn't a new idea. the president had spoken about the importance of empathy in his book, on the campaign trail, and as a senator, when voting against two of president bush's nominees to the high court. president obama pointed to the brown versus board of education case, as an example of when empathy played the right role, leading the court to strike down the idea of separate but equal, as fundamentally unjust. and he pointed to the lily ledbetter case as the opposite. a time when the court should have had the empathy to see that the plaintiff could not have filed suit before she knew that her wages were less than those made by her male coworkers. the president called for empathy on the courts and outrage ensued. here's just one example, from senator jeff sessions, during

sonia sotomayor's confirmation hearing. >> i fear that this empathy standard is another step down the road to a liberal, activist, results-oriented, relativistic world where laws lose their fixed mean, unelected judges set policy, americans are seen as members of separate groups rather than as simply as americans. >> and the outrage, that particular outrage, it conflated empathy with sympathy. we can agree that judges should not rely on gut feelings or the tugging of heartstrings. that's not what empathy is. empathy is able to see going into a crumbling, ill-equipped school while the white school across the town is gleaming is fundamentally unfair. empathy is knowing that one cannot sue before one knowss you're being cheated.

you've probably heard a lot about the declaration of the war on poverty. president lyndon johnson's commitment to eradicating poverty was a product of both a political strategy, but also a deep personal experience, based in his own history. lbj grew up poor and often hungry. his family in constant fear that the bank would take away their home. he knew that poverty is not always the fault of the poor, but poverty can be addressed by government programs and by structural changes. and so, 50 years ago, empathy fueled public policy. medicare, medicaid, head start, the department of housing and urban development, the legal services cooperation. all of these were created under johnson's presidency. since then, the poverty rate has declined by about a third, although 15 million americans still live below the poverty line. now, congress debates whether to extend emergency long-term unemployment insurance for another three months. republicans are opposed to extending the benefits, saying it would be simply too expensive

and that unemployment benefits serve as a disincentive to work. in many americans' eyes, there is an empathy gap between the parties. a december nbc news poll found that there was a 28-point gap. 45% say the democratic party does a better job of showing compassion and concern for people. only 17% said the same of the republican party. and that perception might be because republicans oppose extending unemployment benefits, and want to cut food assistance by $39 billion. and they don't want to give poor people health care via medicare expansion. i'm just saying, maybe that's what is causing that gap. well, they do know that it's a problem. and that they don't seem like they have sufficient empathy. so a memo circulated this week by the house republican conference outlines some talking points for members to use when discussing unemployment. and the memo underscores that unemployment is, quote, a very personal crisis for every american out of work and their families. but unemployment is more than a

personal crisis. it is a systemic problem. it's about the evaporation of wealth, the disappearance of whole sectors of work, the suppression of wages, and a recovery that has been made sluggish and vulnerable because of the deficit policies pushed by the republicans. so republicans want to frame unemployment as a personal crisis, but the politics of empathy would demand that we acknowledge that all of us are vulnerable. it is not just your crisis, it's ours. joining me now, ohio state senator, nina turner, who is running for ohio secretary of state this year. bryce covert, who is economic policy editor for thinkprogress and a contributor to the nation. victoria defrancesco soto, an msnbc contributor, and professor at the university of texas, and ovick roy, a senior fellow at the manhattan institute and an opinion editor at "forbes." thanks for you all being here. victor, i want to start with you. as we were thinking about this issue of empathy in politics,

there really was sort of an outcry when sonia sotomayor was first put up for the court. when she talked about the wise latina position. so talk to me about the role that empathy plays in actual policy making. how does it lead us to good and/or potentially bad policy. >> first of all, it is like we just talked about. walking in somebody else's shoes. it allows you to think beyond your box of, what are the policy options in front of me. i think, though, most interesting, the policy gap itself allows for a wedge to come in. because what we're seeing is a republican party falling short on that empathy gap. so what we're instead going to see is the democratic party filling that gap, and in the 2014 and the 2016 election, we're going to see democrats use wedge politics to their benefit. we usually think of wedge politics as something republicans do. the welfare queen, gay marriage, you name it. but this time around, and we're starting to see it, and the republicans see it and they're getting scared.

and they're saying, we need to do something to fill that gap, but rhetoric is not policy. >> and yet, is important, right? >> yes, yes, yes. we need both. >> yes. so let me go to you, then, on this. because i can imagine that republican lawmakers might push back and say, oh, melissa, it's not that we don't have empathy, it's that you don't have empathy for taxpayers. that you don't have empathy for people who are job creators, right? so i'm wondering, is the issue that republicans, in fact, do not have empathy for the american people, or is it that they have empathy for other groups, groups that maybe i have less empathy for. >> well, republicans wouldn't win elections if they had empathy for no one. so the issue is who you have empathy for. and i think it's important for any political movement to try to see things from the other person's point of view, from the other political movement's point of view, from the point of view of people who don't vote for you. whether you're a liberal or conservative progressive, that's extremely important. any successful movement will do that. but it's more than just empathy.

you have to have good policy. you can have empathy for that group of people, but the policies you make for that group of people don't actually make them better. >> let me take that one step further, and listen to marco rubio talking about poverty, in which he suggests, i do have empathy for poverty, but when i hear the policy proposals, they don't sound to me like good proposals. let's listen. >> for me, this issue is deeply personal. i'm a generation removed from poverty and despair. with where i would be today if there had never been an american? what kind of lives tor futures would my children have if this was not a land of opportunity. what if my father had been stuck, working as a bar boy his whole life instead of making it to head bartender? what kind of life would i have right now? in all likelihood, i, too, would be on the outside looking in. >> so, this is a description of, i have empathy.

i experience poverty. but senator rubio's policies are mostly a kind of devolution to the states, right? big grants where the states will now just kind of take care of these policies, and given what we know about medicaid expansion, that makes me nervous. i hear him saying, i have an experience with poverty. on the other hand, i feel like your policies don't reflect that empathy. >> the policy doesn't necessarily match up with that empathy rhetoric. i believe him when he says he feels like he has a connection, but you have to go beyond the empathy and see the policies that will help people. we can talk about medicare, when you block it and give it to the states, the benefits are worth less than before welfare reform. it hasn't kept up with need during the recession. because states were given a fixed amount of money that has declined, and then they could kind of do whatever they wanted, to some extent, with the pun, and it's kind of, frittered away. and we can expect something similar with what rubio is proposing. >> so i want to come to you, state senator turner, in part because, it feels to me like

empathy politics often then gets reduced to identity politics. you're black, you'll understand the black experience. if you're a woman, you'll understand what women are going through. but i am reminded that probably our greatest anti-poverty president other than lbj was a patrician. it was the great, extremely wealthy fdr. experience isn't required to generate empathy, and yet, it does feel to me like the relative identity diversity within the democratic party, more women, more people of color, more people who are less likely to be millionaires, does give potentially democrats some ability to see the world from different perspectives. >> some advantage, but as you talked about fdr, you need a consciousness. you don't necessarily have to have walked in my shoes, but you have to have a consciousness to understand that. you know, we've got to understand -- the gop went on recess and said, merry christmas to folks. knowing that on december the 28th, 103 million americans were not going to have their unemployment benefits.

unemployment benefits that, in fact, they earned. let's make this clear. so for me to say that you have empathy knowing that might not be able to feed my family. >> and you're like, merry christmas. >> i might not be able to pay my rent or my mortgage, i can't eat those words. i need action. and so, they continue to paint people who are either on unemployment or need the safety net as the other. they are we. we are them. you know, we are interconnected. >> except that maybe they're not. so 1.3 million people losing the unemployment benefits those days immediately following christmas, and we saw the headline just this week that for the first time, congress has a majority of people serving in the u.s. congress are millionaires. and so it makes you feel as though, well, actually may be the problem is that they aren't us. that, in fact, they're not. hold on. we'll stay on this question of empathy and i'll show you two very different sides of the governor of new jersey. >> kroochris christie, the

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i have a job to do. i've got 2.4 million people out of power. i've got devastation on the shore. i've got floods in the northern part of my state. if you think right now i give a damn about presidential politics, then you don't know me. >> that was governor chris christie in the immediate aftermath of hurricane sandy in october 2012, focused on his state. putting his people before politics. asking the democratic president for help and praising his response, even as a general election loomed just a week away. that was governor christie in 2012. this was governor christie on thursday. >> i come out here today to apologize to the people of new jersey.

i apologize to the people of ft. lee and i apologize to the members of the state legislature. i'm sad. i'm a sad guy standing here today. and very disappointed. . and that's the overriding emotion. i feel humiliated by this. i'm a person who cares deeply about doing my job well. i work extraordinarily hard at it. i am sorry to all the people in this state that they have to be you know, occupied with this matter. it's embarrassing and as i said before, the whole matter is humiliating to me. >> according to the "washington post," dana milbank, christie's nearly two-hour news conference became, quote, a forum on the virtues of his favorite subject, himself. using the "i" word 692 times, "i'm" 119 times, "i've," 67. "me," 83, and my/myself, 134.

and he could be taking responsibility for the circumstances, but even as we go back and look at christie most hurricanes-sandy, now that we're in the middle of bridgegate, suddenly you start wondering, did this guy have as much empathy, and i wonder how damaging this may end up being as his perception of being a guy about the people. >> i think people on the right and left really felt like he did what needed to be done after sandy. his state was in crisis. he came and he said, you know, to hell with politics. he hasn't done the same when it comes to a lot of other things that affect his residence. one thing i like to point to is he blocked a minimum wage raise, and the lawmakers brought it to the people and it passed with more voters saying yes than who said yes to christie. the people in his state wanted to raise the wage and people across the country want to raise the wage. he's got policies like that a little bit out of step, and you have to wonder whether he's

seeing the needs of his residents. >> and the scandal itself, i so appreciate that, both because beget focused on a moment, like, what he did on this day, and whether or not he directed the bridges to be closed, and whether or not he set an atmosphere for that to happen. but the inquiring question of whether or not he has empathy may be these much more long-term policies that impact far more people. and it does feel like the actual scandal, bridgegate itself, feels like a scandal of someone who does not have empathy. if it is about political retribution, instead of going after that guy, going after the mayor, he goes after his people or the folks that closed it -- again, we don't know exactly what happened. but to the extent that becomes the narrative, it looks like he's willing to punish ordinary people for political gain. >> and that's what americans are sick and tired of. when you have elected officials, when their main calculus is what is in their best interest, even if they're seeming elm thet mpa

but when the rubber meets the road, the governor, whether or not he knew exactly -- you're absolutely right -- the environment that he created, that his employees, his workers, his cabinet members, that they thought it was okay to do that, to have children late to school or that story about the woman who wrote the letter saying, my husband has been unemployed for a year, he finally has a job and he's late the first week because somebody is having a political everyo temper tantrum over whether somebody has endorsed him. that is wrong. we need to elect somebody who cares more about the next generation. if you care about the next generation, you're not going to mete out that kind of retribution because somebody does not endorse you. >> at a table on msnbc with a lot of democrats and progressives at table, it's easy to look at the christie moment. but i went back and take a look at someone who i think of as the great presenter of empathy,

president bill clinton, and i want to hear the moment we always think of as his great empathy moment. let's take a listen. >> i feel your pain! i feel your pain. >> what we remember from that is that moment. "i feel your pain." we went back and looked at that whole conversation. it's been a long time, but it's worth reminding people. it was in a conversation with an aids activist who was challenging him about aids policy. and most of the discourse -- he says, i feel your pain, but he also says, you better be quiet because i'm up here and bad things are happening to me, and it was a very chris christie on thursday, me, me, me speech. but what we remember is, "i feel your pain." why was he so good at sort of presenting himself as the great man of the people? >> you know, and sadly, a lot of times, rhetoric and emotion means more than policy and substance in politics. and we know this. a lot of times our hearts are a

lot stronger than our brains. and as voters, when we hear that, when we see bill clinton, when we hear chris christie, that's what we feel. what is so dangerous about chris christie is he went the counter of empathy. he went into a vindictive state. and it affects people. and when something affects you in your daily life, that is when the rubber meets the road. so i think chris christie's empathy that we saw has been totally neutralized, and t no only that, but taken down a notch, because people were late to work, people had emergencies they couldn't get to. >> if we think about bill clinton, he's the great incarcerate in terms of federal incarcerations. immigration unfriendly, the great welfare reform. we remember him as like the guy who loved us. and it's part of, then, what allows him to overcome the whole lewinsky scandal later. because he is mr. empathy. i'll let you in, and as soon as we come in after the break, i'll take a quick break. i'll let you in particularly on the question of who is and who

is not groups for whom we feel empathy. that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost.

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much of the 2012 election seemed like a game of who would be meanest to grandma? president obama accused governor romney of planning to gut medicare and the romney campaign accused the administration of already slashing medicare, and then they promised to strengthen it. but in the end, their medicare plans have more in common than either side would admit. it feels to me like that's in part because the elderly are the group that americans the overall and lawmakers themselves tend to be older, simply do have a great deal of empathy for, so medicare is the one we don't touch. >> we tend to have empathy for people who vote and don't tend to have empathy for those who don't vote. >> well played! >> future generations are paying the bills for our fiscal irresponsibility, and that's a big part of where the empathy equation often goes down. one of the things that's attractive about christie. one of the reasons he's such a popular politician, is because he is so relatable.

because people relate not only to just this regular guy per sofa, but the fact that he's willing to call bs on a lot of the political stay sis and the language that's so deadening. he says, i'm responsible, i'm going to do this and that. yes, he can with narcissistic at times, but bill clinton was narcissistic at the same time. the president arguably is as well. >> it's pretty hard to become president from any party and not have a certain level of narcissism. to become montapresident means stood and looked at your country, saw that it had problems, saw that it had millions of people living in and thought, i got this. so there's a certain level of narcissism to run. but i think narcissism can be put to the benefit of the people. so using that power because you are so determined to use it to assist others. or it can be truly just about collecting that power to yourself. and if christie appears to be just correcting the power to himself, then the narcissism becomes untenable. >> that's right. and you know, lbj and fdr were

two very powerful presidential figures who used the power of the people to elevate the people to push the envelope, to push that change. and what is political capital for, but for helping this country or your state evolve, so that equality and justice for all means just that. equality and justice for all. >> i'm interested also in this moment, that the groups for whom we have -- i like the point that we have empathy for those who vote. but it does seem to me that there still are some gaps. and some groups have used empathy strategies. so take marriage equality. part of the strategy of coming o out is to demonstrate to people, you have a sister or cousin or friend who is gay, and therefore you should have empathy because we're in your family. think of de blasio, who not only as mayor is against stop and frisk, but says, this would impact my family. who indicates a sense of like, that connection. that does to me feel like something different than just the rhetoric of empathy.

>> it's trying to invoke emotion from voters. and ultimately, that's the goal. like we said, you can have the best policy in the world, but if it doesn't move a heartstring, it doesn't have an impact. i wish i could say that just policy is going to move it, but, again, going back to the most successful politicians and the most successful movements are the ones that illustrate that. they paint the picture. another recent example, melissa, the immigration movement, where you have all of these young students sitting out there on the mall and saying, we are going to be one with our undocumented brothers and sisters and suffer, just as they're suffering. and suddenly the tv cameras focused in on this and the american public started seeing this. and so this is key to any political strategy. so, it may lack substance, but our job is to see that substance is added on. >> but part of what happened is the discourse can sometimes be unhooked from something. the you actually look at lbj's

war on poverty. between 1960 and 2012, we saw a massive decline in the poverty among the elderly, going from 35% to 14. that is a program that works. that's a set of programs that have undoubtedly, substantially decreased poverty among the elderly. and because they're untouchable, the third rail of american politics, it's going to work for them. yet many republicans came out and kept saying, the war on poverty is a failure because there are so many poor people. and that's intellectually unfair and allows a sort of heartstring pulling, oh, this is a failure, but unhooked from the reality of life. >> medicare is such a great example. when medicare was passed, when that bill was being considered by congress, the congress projected that in 1990, we would spend $10 ball year on medicare. we spend $110 billion on medicare in 1990. so fiscally, it was a failure. and big part of the reason why it is a failure because it subsidizes everyone. it isn't actually redirected towards low-income people.

and that entitlement and the political economy that comes from the fact that everyone gets medicare is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to reform. that's straining the entire budget. >> it is only because it is a program for all, an entitlement for all, something earned for all, in that sense, that it becomes politically successful. and let's just admit that there is a very easy fix to the financial problem, and that is just, if everybody pays into the taxes, all 12 months, out of every single paycheck, instead of setting the cap, so that the wealthy stop paying in, i mean, that's the solution. it would be overnight solved. >> why not means test the program? >> we know what happens to means tested programs. because as you point out, people have empathy for those who vote. as soon as it's a means tested program, it's welfare, and we know what happens, it gets cut. >> the evidence doesn't suggest that. and they are constantly -- >> grown and grown and grown, above inflation. medicare is grown and grown and

grown above inflation. >> and they are constantly the thing that is easiest to beat up on in an election. so i'll end on this point. it does feel to me like it is precisely because of a lack of empathy for those means tested groups, for poor people, for people of color, for folks who can be easily stereotyped to allow those programs to be always marginal and under potential attack. we'll talk more as we go on today. but when we come back, we'll talk more about what's happening to voter in north carolina. this is voter suppression at a whole new level. [ male announcer ] alka seltzer plus presents the cold truth. [ coughs, sneezes ] [ sniffles ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? [ male announcer ] nope. they don't have a decongestant. really? [ male announcer ] really. alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a fast-acting decongestant to relieve your stuffy nose. [ inhales deeply ] alka seltzer plus. oh. what a relief it is.

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hi boys! i've made you campbell's chunky new england clam chowder. wow! this is incredible! i know. and now it has more clams! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. what? [ male announcer ] it fills you up right. you just have to appreciate the sheer determination of north carolina republicans to suppress the votes of their political opponents. the conservative legislators of the tar heel state spent 2013 implements voter i.d. laws, cutting early voting, and ending

same-day registration. their actions launched an ongoing social movement. their local officials became national symbols of voter repression. and their antic attracted a lawsuit by the justice department, alleging that the new laws are discriminatory. and this week, north carolina governor, pat mccory, upped the ante when he announced he would postpone the election for the congressional seat. it was originally held by mel watt, who was tapped by the obama administration to become director of the federal house fbs agency. governor mccory prefers to allow the people of north carolina's majority minority 12th district to have absolutely no representation in the house of representatives for more than 300 days. i'm not kidding. he's just not going to have an election. he's just not going to have one until november. so if you live in this area, you get to spend the next year with no congressional representative.

for real, nina? just going to not have the election? >> i mean, seriously. republicans are revealing -- some republicans are revealing who they truly are. we know for a fact that the vote is the greatest equalizer that we have in this country. that your socioeconomic status doesn't matter, your ethnicity doesn't matter. it is the one place when we walk into the voting booth, we are equal. and the fact that he has the pure, unadulterated gall to think this is okay in the 21st century sends chills up and down my spine. and let me be clear, this is a republican movement. people talk about partisanship. democrats are not out rampant trying to suppress the votes in any which way they can. and there may not be water hoses and barking dogs, but let's be very, very clear. the impact was in north carolina and texas and even my home state has the same kind of chilling effect to suppress the votes of certain groups. >> and victoria, this

district -- so let's be clear. what the governor is saying is, it's not that i want to suppress the vote, it's just too expensive. it's going to cost $1 million, it's going to cause confusion, so we'll wait until november so there'll be some other elections. but this runs along the i-40 corridor, it's a safely democratic seat, one that is officially gerrymandered along partisan lines and just over 50% african-american in terms of its voters. i wonder, and this is my conspiracy theory hat is on now, i wonder if my waiting, and there's no representative in this district and almost a year with no representative and a highly gerrymandered district, if the goal is to somehow eliminate that district, absorb those people into the other ones, and thereby sort of push down the capacity of democrats and of african-americans to have representation in this state. >> sadly, north carolina, a state both you and i lived in, nothing surprises me. this is the state of jesse helms, that sent out all those

postcards to african-american precincts, saying, if you vote without having updated your address, you will go to jail. something that was totally false. so voter intimidation and voter suppression tactics are not nothing new in north carolina. i wouldn't put it past them, i don't know what's going on, was in the short-term, they don't see it as important. these are folks they don't plan to represent, the republicans in power, it's not an importance to them, it's not a priority, and they can latch on to a fiscal argument about it costs too much to have this election. >> reverend barber reacted to the governor's decision about this saying, the governor's decision is latest case of undemocratic political bullying, taxation without representation is a form of tyranny. the original tea party, 300 days without a representative seeminseems

like something that you cannot suggest is reasonable. >> if there is a logicals explanation for it, i don't know what it is. but i want to get this idea about voter i.d. equals voter suppression. voter i.d. is only controversial on the left. 80% of americans support presenting an i.d. when you go to the voter booth. the idea that it's the equivalent to lynching is certainly extreme. >> if anyone thinks that, it is very clear. the thing that is equivalent to lynching are lynching. there aren't other things that are equivalent to lynching. but what voter i.d., what it undoubtedly does, it doesn't bring us any old voter i.d. what we see in these recent laws is, a voter i.d. that has these specific aspect to it. so the suppressive aspect, so you end up in a situation in texas, so you can vote with the card that you can get a gun registration, but not your student i.d. so it's not just like, bring us something that sort of makes us realize who you are.

it's these very narrow -- >> let's not play politics. let i be fair. the idea of making everyone have an i.d. when you go to the voting booth, is not that big of a deal. >> it's a poll tax. >> it's not a poll tax. the courts have ruled on this, and as long as you make it easy to allow people to get those driver's license or photo i.d. -- >> easy is a relative term. >> you don't create an unrental burden. the courts have ruled on this and it is legal. >> it is not free. >> it absolutely is legal, i think you're right, but let's go back to the empathy question. that notion of, it's not that big of a deal depends on thinking of yourself as able bodied, having disposal income and time. there's a lot of things that make it more expensive, not just in the dollars and cents, but expensive in the opportunity costs, and we know those are disproportionately vulnerable people for whom it is more expensive. all that said, we're keeping our eye on north carolina. we have been keeping our eye on

north carolina. i'll look really close at the congressional district. people deserve representation in congress. thank you for joining me today. nina and vickie will stick around for the next hour. maria shriver is coming up, but in just a bit, because first i'm going to show you tina fey and amy poehler on top of a piano, for real. next. ♪ ♪

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seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. i've got three important reasons to up my game with eliquis. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor today if eliquis is right for you. amy and i are proud to be hosting the golden globe awards again this year. >> this year will be more glamorous and grand than ever before. >> it will be the grandest. >> that's why tina and i will be doing the whole show from atop this grand piano. >> it's never been done before. >> so unexpected, so brave. >> i really thought it would be more comfortable than this. >> this is good. >> we've got it now. >> hey! >> that was the dynamic duo of comedy, tina fey and amy poehler, who are gearing up to host the 2014 golden globe

awards tonight on nbc. the funny pair earned rave reviews, great ratings, and a two-year return invite after hosting the globes last year. and their reunion promises to be a highlight of the awards season. sitting atop diversified media empire, while retaining the goodwill of fans and the respect of colleagues, faye and poehler represent all that is possible for women in america. a woman was just confirmed as head of the federal reserve. women are taking leadership positions at companies like gm, yahoo! and facebook. a record number of women serve in the u.s. house of representatives and senate. women are now free to serve in combat and rise to the highest levels of military leadership. hollywood can make a blockbuster movie and its sequel, starting a butt-kicking teen girl, more interested in starting a revolution that n getting a dat. women can have two women co-anchor a nightly news

broadcast. and popular culture has even started to include all women, in the ensemble cast. from the front linted to the corners of power to the comedy stage, women have unprecedented opportunities to raise their voices and speak their minds. but history encourages us not to be complacent. i was reminded this on tuesday when google honored zorra neil horseton with an original doodle on what would have been her 123rd birthday. finally, she was all over the imag internet. for everyone who read "their eyes were watching god" in freshman english, or grappled with the request mules and men" in an anthropology course, or caught halle berry's performance in oprah winfrey's version of "their eyes," it's worth noting

that hurston's voice was almost lost forever. hurston was one of the few women writing and publish alongside women during in harlem renaissance. both she and her work were criticized as over concerned with the comment rather than the lofty, and unworthy of inclusion in the cannon of human literature. when she died, she was penniless and buried in an unmarked great. that is, until alice walker went in search of zorra. she used her own funds to finance a discovery of hurston's work. she gifted it to a generation more capable of hearing hurston's voice. she quite literally uncovered a buried genius and resurrected her work. the lesson here, when women's stories need to be told, it is very often other women who clear the path for those voices to be heard. so when we come back, a national

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it is rare to see a republican and democrat agree on anything lately. but two congresswomen from each side of the aisle have sponsored legislation to build a national women's history museum on or near the national mall in washington, d.c. new york representative carolyn maloney and tennessee representative marsha blackburn drafted a bill that would assign an eight-person bipartisan commission the task of devising a fund-raising strategy and determining a location for the proposed museum, dedicated to the legacies and accomplishments of women. joining us is congressman maloney. >> thank you, melissa. marsha and i are very grateful you're having us on your show. and we're thrilled to be here and tell you about our bill, which would create a commission to study the creation of a national women's history museum, which would not cost the federal

government or anybody any taxpayer anything, and it would be totally funded by a not-for-profit, which has already raised over $12 million, including $1 million from meryl streep. >> i was going to ask, who are the folks who you think clearly see the vision here, and are willing to support either with their voices or dollars? >> well, like-minded men and women who recognize that half the population is not recognized in our nation's history. as you said in your beginning, a brilliant, brilliant author was not recognized. if you look at textbooks and history books, women are largely not mentioned. of the monuments in the capital, the statues of the 2010, only 12 are of women. of the national historic landmarks and sites, only 5% are women. yet women have made tremendous contributions that people are not aware of. i hope that every young man and young girl who visit washington are inspired by the stories not only of women, but also the

revolutionary leaders, the great authors and scientists that have contributed to our country, that are women. >> so let me ask a question, then, about -- because i absolutely agree with all of that. here's the question. why a separate women's museum? like sally ride, for example, wouldn't the value to make sure that sally ride is represented appropriately at the national air and space. already sort of involved with where all of her colleagues and accomplishments are, rather than sort of off in a women's museum. because my one concern, and i keep hearing you say it, it's so important, that boys and girls and men and women would all go. and i wonder, would the women's museum because a space to the side that the all-girls would go to and boys and men wouldn't have to encounter and engage with the accomplishments of women. >> i think that fathers and young boys would want to attend and see also. already, women are incorporated in other pneumonias, but we're an afterthought. we're under the rug. there's not a major mention, as

you said. there are museums now for air and space, for textiles, for spies, for law and order, for the media. for all kinds of things, but not half the population that has a very distinct contribution. and the purpose of this museum, went the not for profit was founded in 1996, and they're accumulating storying such as the story you told earlier, is to gather this information, a repository for the contributions that have been largely no lly i. and we are half the population. all the other museums i mentioned have been built with federal money. we're not even asking for federal money. we're just asking for the opportunity to tell our story, her story. and to chronicle it. i think it's very important. it's inspirational to young girls and boys to know of the achievements of the past. yet, it's not really told. there are specific museums. there is a museum for first ladies. there is a museum for -- >> although it's not in d.c.,

but i do love the first lady museum. >> but they're for little niches, for women artists. but not the total history. and i think it's important to have a place where the history is all put together and held, like the holocaust museum. the story was, in many little places, but when the national museum was built, this was a place for all the stories to be kept and chronicled that are part of our important history in our country. >> there's a way in which having the museum forces the cure ration of it, forces the development of the archive in a way that even though women that absolutely from this day forward must be incorporated, and yet there's something about pushing that effort. let me also say, as we go out here that i undoubtedly will -- if and when this happens, that undoubtedly the women of the 113th congress, this historic landmark congress, will undoubtedly be part of it. so how exciting that you've actually put together a bipartisan effort here on almost

anything at this point. >> well, we are not going to give up until this happens. it's important to tell the story and to inspire a future generation of leaders. >> great. thanks so much. congresswoman carolyn maloney. and coming up next, maria shriver. she's going to join me here in nerdland to talk about her incredible new report. and a special announcement about a new project being launched right here at msnbc. stay tuned with with us, because there is more nederlar nerdland top of the hour hop. that loo. today. [ female announcer ] new age defy color from clairol.

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. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. in the 50 years since president lyndon johnson launched the war on poverty, there is demonstrable evidence that for some americans, at least, lbj's policy agenda was a success. elderly americans are unquestionably living better lives today than they were when the war on poverty began. thanks to programs like social security, the poverty rate for people over 65 dropped by more

than two-thirds from 28.5% in 1966 to 9.1% in 2012. then there are also those who have been left behind, like children. while the child poverty rate has fallen over the last 40 years, children continue to be the poorest people in the united states. children make up 70% of the nation's poor. together with another group, who have increasingly become embl emblematic of the face of american poverty -- women. in just over two weeks, president obama is expected to highlight economic inequality in his state of the union address. and lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are speaking out on the issue, even if they are offering very different solutions to the problem. but if our policymakers are to be serious about addressing the root causes of economic disparity, issues like income inequality, stagnant wages, and poor job growth, women must be part, maybe even the central aspect of their focus. something president obama appeared to recognize last year,

when he said these words in his second inaugural address. >> we are true to our creed when a little girl born into the bleakest poverty knows she has the same chance to succeed as everyone else, because she is an american, she is free, and she is equal not just in the eyes of god, but also in our own. >> notice the feminine pronoun there, when she has these opportunities. the need to not only close the wage gap, to put women at the forefront of the economic agenda is highlighted by the shriver report, a woman's nation pushes back from the brink. the groundbreaking investigation from nbc news special anchor maria shriver and the center for american progress. the exhaustive report found that closing the wage gap between men and women would cut the poverty rate in half for working women and their families and would add nearly half a trillion dollars to the national economy. as maria shriver wrote in an essay included in the investigation, "the nation cannot have sustained economic prosperity and well-being until women's new, central role is

recognized and women's economic health is used as a measure, perhaps it should be the measure, to shape common sense practices and priorities for the 21st century. in other words, leave out the women, and you don't have a full and robust economy. lead with the women and you do." joining me now from washington is nbc news special anchor, maria shriver, who along with the center for progress, put together the report. >> thank you for that incredible introduction and landscape view of where we are, which is exactly what you said. >> thank you. but tell me, then, why this report now? this is obviously something that has been happening, been growing, and why is this report so important at this moment? >> because one out of three women are in economic jeopardy. this is the third shriver report that we've done and this is really a call to the nation to modernize its relationship to women.

and it's also a call to women to come together and demand change from their political leaders. be they democrat, republican, male, or female. women are 54% of the electorate and their vote has power. and they should be voting for people, as i said, men or women, that represent what they need in their lives, which is equal pay, as you said, which is sick days. that was the thing that came out in our poll the most, that people said would make the biggest difference in their life, to have sick days, where it's earned or given, that it's acceptable. and women can come together and demand change and they can get it if they do that. >> this week marked the anniversary of the 50th year in which lbj stood and made that declaration of the war on poverty. sergeant shriver, key to those efforts. what do you think sergeant schooifr would now say about the changing face of what inequality and poverty looks like in america? >> he would be talking about it,

but he wouldn't have waited 50 years to talk about it. he would have been talking about it all the way through. a month ago, no one was talking really about poverty. and you have just in this last week, on the anniversary of the war on poverty, you have congressman ryan, you have secretary rubio, we have this report. i think the president will talk about this in his state of the union and he'll also, i think, talk about it talking about women. so when anyone talks about poverty or about income and inequality, they've got to start talking about how women have these dual roles. they're breadwinners, caretakers, and caregivers. women are strapped between their children and their parents, and two-thirds of minimum wage workers are women. two-thirds don't have one sick day. how are they meant to manage all of these competing interests unless they have some support. >> we spent much of the first hour of the program talking about the issue of empathy. and in the case that you wrote for the atlantic, in the first

lines of it, you emphasize that your own personal biography does not include a story of economic instability, but this issue matters deeply to you in terms of how important it is to your country. but i'm wondering, the report has all the statistics, but these personal stories from women living in poverty and then people like beyonce and eva longoria. how do the personal stories help to generate empathy that maybe the statistics alone can't help us to see? >> exactly that way. i think statistics are hard to -- these numbers are so big, it's hard to wrap your head around 42 million people. but when you read the report, which you can download at shriverreport.org, for the next four days, it's three. and we've had thousands of people line up just to press the button. but you can read these essays, whether it's from neara tandem, it puts a face to these statistics.

we have an hbo film coming out in march, called the life and times of katrina gilbert that puts a face to these issues. all week long on nbc, we'll be putting face to these issues. and you can see, that's me. people who are struggling and in economic peril today are not people that are over there. it's everybody you know. it's the person in the cubicle next to you. it's the person working in the place you go to get lunch. there's a very fine line between the us and the them. in fact, it's a blurred line. our hope was to add these personal essays to give a face, to give heart to this issue, and to give an impetus to people to care. >> there's, of course, a great example of this, in fairly recent american history, and that is the success of the breast cancer campaigns. people coming out, telling their own stories. we had all the statistics about how breast cancer was impacting women, but when you look at where we are in terms of public awareness of breast cancer of both government and private funding around it, it just

changed dramatically when suddenly people were telling their own stories and folks felt a strong sense of empathy and connection to survivors and victims of the disease. i wonder, and, of course, breast cancer, there was shame around it, initially, before women began to tell their own stories. can we do, for poverty, and for women in poverty, what happened around women and breast cancer? so that in 20 years, we have something totally different. >> i really hope so. because i think, you mentioned the word "shame." there's a lot of shame to standing in an unemployment line. there's a lot of shame to standing in a food stamp line. there's a lot of shame in not being able to put food on the table for your kids. and so what we have tried to do, whether it's through our instagram, through social media, through the film, through what we're doing here, is, you know, to put a face to this. to let people know that there is support for them out there, that the actual, in the polling, the americans resounded and said they felt that government should

support, for example, single mothers, the american families, the way they are today. i don't think shaming anybody gets us anywhere. it's really courageous for people to tell their story and i think people, when day do, will find that somebody will say, that's me too. >> one last question for you. as much as the report shows a lot of inequality, it also has an empowerment feeling behind it. talk about the ten steps that the report suggests about how we start to move, both as individuals and as a nation towards more equality. >> well, the report that you can download as a set, it's big and it's thick, so we pulled out ten things anyone can do. one is to read the report and cite it. we have it in classrooms all over the country. we're hoping political leaders will use it to craft legislation. but we're also calling on young girls to stay in school, because that's a huge income predictor, whether you're going to be in poverty or not. we're telling them to be providers is and not think they will be provided for.

to delay family planning as much as possible, before you get your education, get smart. be financially smart. because you will have to make financial decisions over your future. we're call young women to invest in themselves. for women who are employers, to be 21st century employers. if they're hiring women, pay them a living wage. a living wage in some states is different than others. if we have small businesses, educate people about what programs are out there that could help lift them out of poverty. the earned income tax credit. many people are eligible for these programs. they know nothing about. if you run businesses, you know, talk to the people that are on the ground, so to speak. what do they need. what kind of workplace will help them thrive. we have a drive index in there, which talks to businesses about how they can support women, retain women, and promote women >> nbc news, special anchor, maria shriver, thank you for not only appearing this morning, but also for your work on this report.

>> thank you so much, melissa. >> maria will be co-hosting "50 year war: the changing face of poverty in america" on an awe "all in" official event tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. and msnbc will be covering this report all next week with divests including senator gillibrand from here in new york, michelle moody mills, and maria shriver. we have a link to maria's brand-new report on our website at mhpshow.com. and we are not done with this report or with the issues. i've got a great table of amazing women here and we're going to keep talking about it. up next, changing the way we see single moms and what we say could change their lives right now. overmany discounts to thine customers! [old english accent] safe driver, multi-car, paid in full -- a most fulsome bounty indeed, lord jamie. thou cometh and we thy saveth! what are you doing? we doth offer so many discounts, we have some to spare. oh, you have any of those homeowners discounts?

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so we're going to go tonight findings of a shriver report. a woman's nation pushes back from the brink. this comprehensive investigation from nbc news anchor maria shriver in partnership with the center for american progress brings to the forefront the lives of millions of america's most vulnerable women, including the unmarried women who account for 40% of all births. that's more than 50% of women under the age of 30. among the reports' findings about single mothers, nearly three quarters of unmarried births are to women who are living in poverty or on the brink of poverty. and even though 58% of the births to unmarried women -- to unmarried women were to women who are cohabitating with a partner at time of birth. and according to reports, two-thirds of single mothers are working low-wage jobs with little flexibility, benefits, or economic supports that allow for time with their children. 96% of them say paid leave is the workplace policy that would help them the most, and nearly two-thirds of americans believe

that government should help society adapt to the reality. one more time. help society adapt to the reality of single-parent families, and use its resources to help children and mothers succeed, regardless of family status. revolution! at the table, ohio state senator, nina turner, victoria defrancesco soto, professor at the university of texas. judith levine, associate professor of sociology at temple university, and author of "ain't no trust: how bosses, boyfriends, and bureaucrats fail low-income mothers and why it matters." and one of the editors of the shriver report, senior vice president for american values and new communities at the center for american progress. so i want to start with you, daniella, because i want to go right to this question of single mothers and how much this whole story about women has to do with the ability of women to control and manage their own fertility. >> right, exactly. i mean, the thing we found most in this report and through our polling, which was an amazing

over 3,500 people, is that women need time. they need time to take care of chair children. they need time to take care of their parents. they need time if they want to get out of that low-wage job. how are they supposed to better their education if they have no flexibility over their schedule? it's an ironic thing that the wealthiest people are the once who have the most flexibility. everyone needs it, but single mothers are the ones who really need it the most. in our poll, people did find that, yes, there is support for government doing what they can to help marriage and support marriage, but the american people understand that we need to support women where they are and families where they are. and it's not just government, but our institutions just haven't kept up. >> i am in love with this language that what women need is time. it is a nice way of shifting the idea of what the costs are. i want to remind everyone that first lady obama, when the president first began to run, talked about this issue of time. and initially, of this kind of balance between career and family. she said, believe me, as a busy,

single mother, or, i shouldn't say single. i mean, as a busy mother, when you've got a husband, who is president, it can feel a little single. and he's there, and as a busy working mom, and before coming to the white house, nii was in that position as well. working, driving kids to practice, not having enough time to shop or cook, not having enough energy. and the very fact that the first lady, who is obviously in a loving partnership, understand that empathy, it's part of why mama robertson lives there, because you need time. >> she gets it. and what we hope happens with this report is that we start a new conversation. you know, demonizing women for being single moms or for the choices that they make, that hasn't gotten us anywhere and it won't in the future. we need to figure out what women need to move forward. i'm hoping we can have a great conversation around this report >> and judith, your report, and i read the book, and i have to say, it suggests that we have

gotten somewhere with the ways that we shame women for being single parents. it's just that where it's gotten us is not where we want to be. talk to me about the issue of trust for single parents? >> yes, well, one of the main findings of the book is that distrust is palpable amongst low-income women and it's not just in one area, where you might expect, like how they feel about the welfare office, for instance, but it's in almost every area of their lives. and why do we care about distrust? we care for two reasons. one is because it undermine policy goals. if you don't believe the policy is actually going to be delivered as promised, the incentive effect is gone. secondly, trust is really a form of inequality and it goes along with income inequality. when you are at the bottom of the income distribution and the bottom of the power structure, you don't feel you can rely on others. and you often might be right. there's a lot of evidence that

women are right when they make this assessment. >> the distrust of low-income women is not paranoia, it is based in empirical relationships in which they are consistently let down by policy makers, by intimate, and yet win wonder, them, how do we start to legitimately rebuild trust, by, in fact, doing what the shriver report suggests, and putting women at the center of policy making, instead of at the margins. >> and i certainly want to thank maria for doing this and actually asking women about themselves. >> because, you know, as women go, so goes the nation. >> indeed. >> so go children and the viability of neighborhoods and communities. and i like what maria said when she said, we need women to make sure that they are using the power of the ballot box to elect folks, whether they be democrat or republican, who actually get it. because there is a correlation between the ballot box and the bread box. there is a correlation. and i get this in a deep way, my sisters, in a deep way, because my mother died at the age of 42,

on welfare. no life insurance policy, not even two nickels in the bank. i am the oldest, and my mother suffered, and although she was a married woman, i grew up the majority of any life in a single-parent household. how ludicrous is it to believe that anybody wants to be poor. nobody says, sign me up! medicaid, public housing, that is the life for me. but people do need policy makers and they need other stakeholders, also in the corporate space, to understand that when you give women what they need to be able to thrive, not just survive. and i'm telling you, professor, i'm having a tupac moment, because in his -- >> dear mama, are you about to quote dear mama on nerdland? >> no, keep your head up. when he said, i give a holla to my sisters on welfare, tupac cares if nobody else cares. we need more policymakers to care and transmit that caring to

policies in the space that allows women to thrive. but the depose on to say that women should forgive, but not forget. and he says, since we all came from a woman and got our name from a woman and our gain from a woman, i wonder why we take from our women. that is the foundation of what needs to happen. and the fact that the shriver report lace thys that out, i ha break it down. from tupac, let the nerdland church say, amen. and up next, the golden ticket, or at least the closest thing. how we can start making a difference in this inequality gap. ♪ ♪ ♪

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will shift your perception. this is the pursuit of perfection. ♪ whoa, who-o-o-a ♪ one, two, three, four! ♪ ohh, oh-oh-oh-oh ♪ ohh, oh-oh-oh-ohhh ♪ go, let's go ♪ hit me like a supernova ♪ let it flow ♪ over like an ocean ♪ when the sound explodes ♪ everybody's feeling all right ♪ ♪ everybody's feeling all right ♪ ♪ ohh, oh-oh-oh-oh we're back and still discussing the shriver report on the status of women and inequality. and i wanted to come to you, victoria, because you and i share some similarities. we are both working, married moms, women of color with phds. and one of the most interesting results of the study had to do

with how women felt about their marriages, their divorces, and their children. so i want to read this to you and ask your responses. only 28% of divorced women regret not staying married, compared to 47% of divorced men, while lower income women are more likely to regret having children when they did, 39% wish they had delayed having children or had fewer, and overall, however, 25% of women regret the timing or the number of children they had. it was important to me, not because i think women don't like their husbands and children, but because the balance is really extraordinarily difficult. and policy makes a huge difference in how you make those balances. >> melissa, you and i have everything at our disposal. i have a 7-month-old and i can barely keep my head straight. >> it gets a little better. >> month by month. but i don't know how single moms do it. and single moms who are in these low-wage jobs, don't have sick pay. i think the bottom line here, the message was education. all right, we all buy that.

but what are we going to do to change the social contract that puts education center? and i thought that was the most compelling part of the report, is saying we need to tweak our social contract. because we're no longer the "mad men" society, where the men work and the women stays home. we need components such as sick days, such as family leave, and these are things we need to incorporate into our new social contract going forward. you can't do it on your own. even with a family, you can't do it on your own. >> and the education piece, this matters so much. you and i both have daughters and we also have the resources. that means we'll be tabable to provide for our daughters incredible levels of education. hopefully they'll take advantage of it. but when we just say, go get your education, not everybody's education that they get to go get is the same. so if you are a -- if you're in a circumstance of inequality and you send your kid to school every single day, but it's a school without resources, the payoff might not be the same. >> exactly. you seem very disparate outcomes when it comes to education based

on where you live and where you grow up. so if you come from a single family and happen to live in a low-wage, low-income neighborhood and your school is -- and that could set you off on a track from before you even get to school, sort of predicting what's going to happen in your life. so we have to make these changes at the very beginning of a girl's education. so it starts at preschool. you know, universal pre-k, something we should all be advocating for. and it's about choices, and making sure that women know the choices we should make, before they go to school. like, what careers do you want to take and what will that actually mean? there's some bipartisan legislation right now called know before you go, which is really important. a lot of times, especially women and color and low-income women. they go out and get these certificate degrees and incur a lot of debt and they can't find great jobs to pay off their debt. >> when we look at men's education, tracking with their income, as you would expect, education, each additional year of education includes greater income. that's what men look like.

if you look at women, same thing. more education leads to more income. was the whole thing is depressed, right? those numbers just show it. and i wonder if this is also part of the trust. if i'm told, get your education, and so then i go and sign up for some online course and feel like i'm doing it and it doesn't pay off, does that undermine my belief that this thing is the golden ticket? >> absolutely. and we've made it a lot harder for low-income women to get the kind of education that is going to pay off. because welfare reform, in most states, has a work first philosophy. that if you're receiving public benefits to put food in the mouths of your children, then you've got to get into a job right away. and yes, the long-term goal is moving people into the labor market, but they really can't pursue education that's going to pay off. and of course, what pays off most is a college degree. and that's just not happening anymore. >> and i can just say that there is a certain kind of obscenity to the idea that for poor women,

it's work first, but for middle class and wealthy women, we tend to say, family first. and the whole point is, so, if mommy at home is good for kids, if that is your theory of the world, then why isn't poor mommy at home best for her kids as well? >> because she doesn't deserve it. that's sort of the attitude -- >> because she has to be punished for having more kids -- >> and for being poor. >> and the misogynistic turn of welfare, where it started targeting women. so not just -- it's being on welfare is shameful, if you're a man or a woman, but women in particular, and mothers. >> victoria defrancesco soto, judith levine, who is also the aunt of one of our team members, my graphics p.a. here, which is where i first got the book, and also to daniella gibbs, and also nina turner, who is going to stick around a little bit longer. how could we let her go? up next, an exciting announcement about a new msnbc project and a nerdland road trip. stay with us. >> do you have any plans to look

into the governor's races here, since it's turning into a big one? >> i don't even know who's running. how's that? when i first started shopping for a hybrid... i didn't even look at anything else. i just assumed you went and bought a prius. so this time around we were able to do some research and we ended up getting a ford... which we love. it's been a wonderful switch. it has everything that you could want in a car. it's the most fun to drive... because it's the most hi tech inside... i think this c-max can run circles around the prius... the biggest difference would definitely be the acceleration of the car... if you can get someone to test-drive a c-max... they would end up buying this more times than not. that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals,

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can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. today msnbc.com kicks off women of 2014. a year-long series chronicling a dynamic slate of candidates running as democrats and republicans in primaries for house seats, senate seats, and for the governor's mansions. the series includes interviews with leaders, a look at rising stars behind campaigns, donors, and newcomers. the first real test of the political winds of 2014 will have a democratic woman, alex sink, running in a special election for a house seat in florida. from there, some of 2014's most pivotal races will have women at the center. from allison grimes aiming at the senate minority leader mitch mcconnell to michelle nun, a

fueling democratic optimism in a traditionally red state, georgia. to rnc featured speaker, mia love, a black republican woman, attempting her second attempt at the congressional seat. and if a few key women running across the country get their way, the one lone democratic feel governor, maggie hasan, won't be an anomaly anymore. that includes, of course, texas gubernatorial candidate, wendy davis, who rose to national fame last summer when as a state senator, she held a nearly 11-hour long filibuster in an effort to stop new restrictions on reproductive rights. she's hoping to become the first woman governor in texas since ann richards lost to george w. bush 20 years ago. we sent reporter meredith clark to plano, texas, whose county went for governor mitt romney for more than 30 points, to find out what they thought of davis and her likely opponent in november. state attorney general, greg abbott. and whether texas getting a woman governor again matters the to the women of texas.

>> reporter: today, we're going to take a trip to the wednesday wouldettes a to the plano super bowl to find out what they think about wendy davis and see if she's got a chance in the governor's race. when you're coming in from out of town to a place, it can be difficult to find a spot where you know there's a lot of people you can talk to. so a bowling alley is kind of perfect. it's a one-top shop, as it were. and everybody loves bowling. >> are conservative values and issues the most important thing for you when it comes to voting for candidates? >> not necessarily conservative issues, but the democrats have had their shot and things are in the toilet, so i think it's time for the republicans to step up. >> you told me a minute ago that you like wendy davis. why is that? >> to me she just represents major change. i think we need that.

she's a woman, of course, and she's just really shown her stuff by taking the stand that she did on abortion. i wouldn't just vote for someone because they're woman. that's me, but i don't know. >> i'm going to vote for greg abbott because i'm pro-life, so i don't support wendy davis for that reason. i would be glad to vote for a ram woman, who is pro-life. >> reporter: do you have any plans to look into the governor's race this year, since it's turning into a big one? >> i don't even know who's running. how's that. >> i'm for wendy, because she's a democrat and i think she'll be good for the country, for our country and for our governorship. >> and what about you? >> well, i totally disagree. i think perry has brought jobs to texas and wendy, and a no. >> i'm really against abortion, though and if she is for that -- but other than that, i really don't know a lot about her. >> i feel like she's just not strong enough. and what's going on right now in

the state of with immigration and stuff like that, we need to close our doors. >> i think in my time, there's going to be a woman president as well as a governorship again, because we did have a governor in texas. >> i'm waiting. they've got to do an awful lot and show me an awful lot. i'm a texan. when i was born, it was a democratic state and now it's a republican state. and the pendulum swings. i've seen it change. >> joining the table, fresh from plano, texas, is msnbc.com reporter, meredith clark. also, msnbc.com national reporter, susie kim. and msnbc.com national reporter, i ri irin carmon. so what'd you learn in texas? >> i think there's a lot that people don't know to paycheck up their mind yet. if wendy davis can make the opportunity to make herself known as someone who cares about

families, she might be able to make up a lot of ground where she's trailing greg abbott right now. >> i thought it was interesting, we were talking about this earlier, and you said, she want os redefine in part what the idea of pro-life is. what does that mean for her campaign? what does the pro-life redefinition going to look like? >> she actually did say that in an interview -- or not an interview, but a campaign event in brownsville, texas, and she had to explain that and it really came down for, i'm for life at all stages. it's not just about being pro-pregnancy, it's about making sure that children have enough to eat, have enough education, have opportunities when maybe they're coming from an economically disadvantaged situation. and i think her campaign is already showing that. she's just come out with her education platform. she's going to do a lot on that in the next several months. >> irin, so as much as wendy davis is going to have to make herself a full candidate, the fact that she came to national attention around the issue of the texas laws to restrict

reproductive rights, you were in my town in new orleans earlier this week, because the case is moving on. talk to me about what you were reporting on the there. >> well, there has been a challenge brought to the admitting privileges of the medication abortion provisions of the laws that wendy davis stood up against. they wanted the district court, the clinics that brought the case, they wanted the district court. they said it is an unconstitutional blocking of women's right to an abortion. but then at the conservative fifth circuit, the seat of which is if your hometown in new orleans, that was then allowed to go into effect. the law was allowed to go into effect. so what we were seeing this week the the oral argument, three female judges, i believe, at least two, possibly all three of them, are texans, and they are all like some of the women that meredith interviewed. they all consider themselves pro-life. so you have this fascinating conversation between the attorney for the clinics, a woman, three republican women sitting out there in a position of authority, and asking, is this really so bad on the women in the rio grande valley?

>> right. >> i want to look at what judge jones said here. because i want you to tell me the context of this. in which judge edith jones was talking about this, making women drive an extra 150 miles to an abortion clinic and said, do you know how long that takes in texas. 75 miles an hour, flat highway, no congestion. >> right. the idea is like, it's not an undue burden if you drive really fast. and this is the point. the way that the lawyer for the clinics put it is, there were two clinics in the rio grande valley before. now there are none. so the women -- the judges basically said, well, you know, but it was so bad before, there were so few people providing abortions beforehand, how can you say it's their fault? look at the before and after, and the fact that abortion is already very difficult to access, there's no constitutional ground to say, we should make it even harder on these women. the solicitor general of texas was the only man up there.

there was a real limit to the solidarity of these women who are trying to make these reproductive health care decisions and are forced to meet ever-many more road blocks. >> and it's a reminder that simply having women in power is not necessarily mean the protection of women's rights, particularly around reproductive choices, but a whole variety of other things. talk to me, then, about, you are following michelle nun, that's your most recent piece, but talk to me about why we should care about the women of 2014 in a broad sense, when obviously the women of 2014 will be a diverse group with a variety of different viewpoints? >> i think it's sort of interesting that the way that women have traditionally, you know, in the past, in past years, gone into office was often because their husband, their father, someone in their family was associated with politics and they kind of rode on their coattails into office. what's interesting about someone like michelle nun is she does come from one of those very famous political families. her father, sam nunn, was a

renowned democrat in georgia, who still has a big reputation there. she's making no secret about the fact that she's from this family. but at the same time, she is really stressing her own career, that she's sort of built up. and that she has never served in political office before. she ran this nonprofit organization that became one of the largest volunteer service organizations, in part because she partnered with george a.w. bush and his family. so she's trying to bring that sort of bipartisan credibility in there. so i think, you know, as you mentioned earlier, it's so interesting to see how women are coming up in so many different sectors, not just in public service and in government, but in private industry. and more of those candidates, i suspect, are going to be coming over into public life, as they rise in tech and these different areas, and they're going to draw on that background and expertise to show that they can really lead. >> we have an actual woman of 2014 sitting at table. so when we come back, i'm going to talk with nina turner about running as a woman. ] ring. rin. progresso.

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and the reason why is because i believe in free and fair elections. i believe like my grandmother used to believe that everybody should have access -- >> that was my guest and most definitely one of the woman of 2014, ohio state senator, nina turner, on fire, campaigning to be the new ohio secretary of state. so, two things i want to get into with you here. one, not all women are the same woman, right? we saw that with meredith talking to two best friends bowling together who disagree, or irin's point about this woman who's trying to protect reproductive rights and those who are trying to limit them. one of the key aspects on which women tend to differ is on race. we know that the gender gap is often driven by a racialized gender gap.

we saw that in virginia. it was actually black women who turn out for mcauliffe over cuccinelli. we see that with president obama. how do you talk to all the groups of women as you are campaigning? >> what we have in common, and that is the need for progress. talking about the issues really that women care about. women are not homogenous. that's the same case in race as well, whether or not african-americans or hispanic or asian americans, whether we're elected, does that change the dynamic. but it definitely shifts the mentality, so to speak, that it should matter that we are in the room. i speak to people's heart. and the one thing i want the citizens of the state of ohio to understand, it doesn't matter to me where they lean, red, blue, country, rock 'n' roll, or a little r&b, i want folks to have unfettered access to the blot box. one woman, one man, one vote.

vote for whoever you would like, but you need to have that access to the ballot box. and i think most folks, whether they are republican or democrat or independent, they get that the pillar of our democracy depends on all people having that unfettered access. >> you know, it seems to me that certainly you know this as someone who has run and who is running now. part of what any candidate needs at any level is an incredible group of people around him or her to help them run. and a lot of the top political operatives don't know how to run a woman, don't get it. how do we teach them? >> not just a woman, professor, but an african-american woman, hispanic. and what i love about you, you always put it out there. i have an african-american woman running my campaign. because it was important to me to mirror all the things that i fight for. and going back to something that maria shriver said about making sure that women are informed and they make decisions based on what they need in terms of who is elected to office.

i'm sicked and tired of politicians whispering sweet nothings in the ears of women. and we have to unite one to another. we were just sharing a conversation during the break that women tend to be harder on women. i can't told don't wear short sleeves, make sure that your hair is just right, make sure that you project a certain image. oh, my god, are you going to change your tone in the way that you project yourself. what voters do like, they like people who are genuine to who they are. and i'm too young to change that now. what i want people to know is that i'm a fierce advocate for everything that i believe in and i don't apologize for that. but there is a gubl sometimes triple standard for women. we saw that happen to secretary hillary clinton when she was running for president. we saw that happen to governor palin when she was running. everybody was preoccupied with how they looked. and women feed into that, as well. >> i have said it many times on the show even though i have deep policy disgreagreements with sa palin, as you point out the

image possibility of a woman who has a young child saying i'm not going to delay running, i'm going to run now, is meanien an for women to say you can run and you can run right now. men with young children run all the time. i'll make the decision to run. so i wonder if that goes back to in part why its eye valuable to do this 2014 series because there are some women i am rooting against in 2014, right? i can make you a list. and yet there is still some value in seeing these women running for these offices. >> it's very -- it's interesting because i think women are in an effort to speak to -- they speak to all efforts. they're not just mothers, one thing or another. but that they can can speak to a broad audience on a whole range of issues. definitely she's trying to position herself as the reasonable voice in the room, someone who can bring all sides to the table. and it's interesting because that kind of tone and where she's trying to position herself

politically really does remichbd me of the moderates in the senate both republicans and sort of more conservative centrist democrats, the role that they have been trying to play in the senate in trying to broker deals achd trying to be the reasonable voice in the room, the person who can bring everyone to the table. so it is to be an inclusive conversation. and you're getting it from some of the candidates in terms of the tone and image they're projecting. >> i have a lot of respect for the moderates, but i think that one of the things that women may often need is fierce advocates for men and women, particularly around issues of reproductive rights. some may be the men of 2014 who will be doing that work. >> what i would say is that what kind of democracy do we have where half of them are shut out. even women that i disagree with, if they're not in the room, you have to ask why. >> yes, why aren't they there.

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i'll offer one more reminder to stay with msnbc this week for continuing exploration and coverage of the shriver report. a woman's nation pushes back from the brink. that's actually all the time we have this morning. my thanks to all of the guests who appeared here today. and of course to all of you at home for watching. and thank you to everyone who even when i was doing things that were not right sent me letters of support and help and assistance in this week. you will never know what it means to me that i know for certain that nerdland has my back. i'll see you next saturday at 10:00 a.m.. right now a time for a preview of weekends with alex witt. everyone, chris christie remains out of sight day as there are new questions. i'm talking to the author of the new report of the confusion within the world's biggest tech

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me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups. this morning the top show circuit is heating up with talk about the george washington bridge scandal, who said what ahead. president obama is expected to announce major reforms to government surveillance this week. a preview from someone inside the intelligence community. a preview of tonight's golden globe, one of hollywood's biggest and most fun parties. who will win and what about those two fabulous hosts. and in this hour's office politics with kathie lee, she talks about regis and reveals the person she most admires today. it's high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. let's go to the developments in th