ouncer ] commute your way with the bold, all-new nissan rogue. ♪ hello, disrupters. i'm karen finney. your forecast this week, the power of fate and forgiveness as the real philomena joins us just hours before she walks the red carpet. >> the bridgegate scandal is still swirling this morning. >> chris christie is in self-defense. >> he says he didn't realize. he says he didn't know. >> why didn't he know more? >> he doesn't know because he didn't want to know. >> he trusted people that lied to him, and he fired those people. >> he had to know there was all that traffic. >> where was the troubleshooter then? >> chris christie manned up and took it on. >> i just don't get the idea that anyone could say, let's engineer a traffic jam. >> this is not the mississippi river bridge. this is the george washington bridge. >> using the george washington bridge, a public resource, to

exact a political vendetta is a crime. >> i had no knowledge of this. >> christie's on an island. there's not a lot of republicans coming to his support. >> i think it would be a mistake for me and others like me to comment on this. >> if those tie back into the governor in any way, it clearly becomes an impeachable offense. >> this week could bring answers to the growing list of questions about the george washington bridge scandal and new jersey governor chris christie. the woman who sent this despicable e-mail, the woman christie repeatedly threw under the bus during his marathon press conference, could be getting a subpoena from the state assembly as soon as tomorrow. and you can bet lots of people will be interested to hear what bridget kelly has to say. if evidence links the governor to apparent efforts to snarl traffic for political reasons, the state assemblyman leading the investigation says christie could be impeached.

now, there's no such evidence so far, but with all of the that hanging over his head, just what will chris christie say at his state of the state address on tuesday? joining me now, the senior politic political reporter for "the huffington post," and jonathan alter. i want to start with you, amanda. one of the things i thought was interesting, some of the many questions coming out, you know, if bridget is subpoenaed, do we think there's a chance that the governor would try to assert executive privilege? we saw him do that in the case with his education secretary and race to the top. >> well, what could also happen is she might simply plead the fifth and not testify. we saw that last week with david wi wildstein, the port authority official. he simply said his name, spelled his name, said where he was from. beyond that, he said he was

invoking his fifth amendment rights to stay silent. what's interesting about the subpoenas is they're going to try to subpoena for documents. that's how we found out that bridget kelly was involved. if the new jersey legislature gets more documents, more answers could come that way, maybe rather than through the testimony. >> jonathan, one of the things that was interesting when you go through the e-mails, in a number of places people use their official e-mail to e-mail an e-mail to their private e-mail. makes you wonder, you know, what's in there. >> well, and why were they putting anything of any sensitivity in e-mails? part of the story is the mass stupidity that's at play here. >> e-mail is forever. >> not just the stupidity of snarling traffic. but the stupidity of doing it in a way where they can be caught. i think part of christie's anger or sadness, as he calls it, is how could the people were so close to him, who he put so much faith in him not just lie to him

but be so idiotic if their discharging of their responsibilities. >> maybe that's what he's really upset about, that they were that idiotic. or that they got caught maybe. >> i'm pretty confident in saying that concern about stupidity was right up there. as far as executive privilege goes, if he goes down that road, then he really is moving into nixon land. he really is kind of arousing suspicions that he has a lot more to hide that maybe there was a cover-up here, even if he didn't know about this at the time. later on he, you know, was suspicious instead of acting to bring the evidence out, tried to keep it bottled up. that's why i don't think he's going to go down that executive privilege road. >> and amanda, you could see the campaign ads writing themselves if he were to assert executive privilege. >> yeah, i mean, exactly. look, chris christie is not coming out of this looking

great. he clearly probably doesn't want bridget kelly to testify simply because it will -- i mean t will raise a lot of uncomfortable questions. there still are a lot of questions out there. there is no evidence right now that chris christie was involved or that he knew, but there were inconsistencies in his press conference. he said that he hadn't been sleeping a lot for days, but he said he had just heard about this the day before. so which is right? had he known about it before days or had he just heard about it the day before? and i find it hard to believe that the deputy chief of staff was the person who was highest involved in this. so more people may be involved. >> and jonathan, you have talked about this before. there is a pattern. there have been a number of stories about the pattern that has been set. we had one -- another new jersey mayor who came forward to say that they experienced retribution as "the new jersey star ledger" reported, new

jersey mayors who didn't support chris christie were questioned. as you reported, the boss sets the tone. >> exactly. this is the real issue here. if this had been a different kind of governor, then all this would be more believable. but he created a culture of vindictiveness, a culture of retaliation. "the new york times" has cited several examples of this kind of bullying. you know, his problem going forward is that when he says, quote, you know, i am not a bully, there are a lot of people in new jersey who don't believe that. they may even like him and think he's a good governor, but they don't believe that he's not a bully. so he has to worry about whether now people are not going to be afraid of him anymore in the same way that when the bully is finally caught, then all the kids in the schoolyard who he's been beating up suddenly find their courage and they come forward with the stories of how he bullied them on other occasions. so this story could broaden into

other nonbridge issues. >> you know, amanda, the governor's got his state of the state address on tuesday. what is he going to say? nobody's really going to care about his agenda as much as they'll be watching for the cues in terms of his tone, his demeanor and what, if anything, he says about this scandal. >> and chris christie has really sort of marketed himself as someone who can get along with democrats. he's a republican governor in a blue state in the northeast. i'm sure he will want to talk a lot about his accomplishments and his ability to work with with the legislature. right now the legislature really isn't very happy with him. they are continuing these investigations. so a lot of this talk about bipartisanship, changing the tone in new jersey, right now those will ring hollow to many people. >> the other thing we saw, not surprisingly, this morning and in the last day or so is those republicans who have come to christie's defense have talked about, oh, he's such a leader. but the benghazi comparison.

i mean, what doesn't get compared to benghazi? and bridgegate is not benghazi. and it's not the phoney irs scandal. >> what this is, is more of the best defense is a good offense. this is what the education commissioner for new jersey said, this is the key thing to understand about chris christie. it's true of the national republicans who were on "meet the press" this morning as well. when they're under attack, they attack. they try to challenge other people. so -- but the problem with that is that can trip you up. what did christie do at his press conference? instead of just saying, you know, i have fired bridget kelly, accepted the resignations of others, which is often what the governor will do, he had to throw them off the bridge. not just throw them under the bus. there's a danger in that. these folks have now been given immunity from prosecution. if they turn state's evidence, bigger problems ahead. >> have they already been given

immunity, or is that on the table? >> they could be given immunity from prosecution, yeah. >> amanda, i want to play sound of reince priebus from this morning and get your reaction. >> stood there for 111 minutes in an open dialogue with the press. now, only if barack obama and hillary clinton would give us 111 seconds of that would we find out some things we want to find out about obamacare, benghazi, the irs. >> i mean, come on. are you kidding me? thousands of hours of testimony, thousands of pages of documents have been turned over. and the irs scandal is not a scandal. benghazi has already been resolved. will they ever stop trying to compare everything to benghazi? >> we will be hearing a lot more about benghazi and the irs scandal in the next couple weeks than we have in months. i mean, chris christie, yes, he did hold a press conference and did take a lot of questions from the press. he's very good at doing that. he does that a lot with

reportedereporte reporters. but again, a lot of questions remained unanswered. most of what we got was chris christie saying he didn't know what had happened. he really still didn't completely know the full story. and he felt very sad and in many ways he felt like the victim because his staff had lied to them. so he talked to the press, but we still didn't get a ton of information. >> and you know, jonathan, in this comparison of leadership of, you know, chris christie stood there and barack obama, i want to play some sound for you. i actually think, you know, the president actually is the guy where buck stops with him. if you listen to, which we will, what he said when one of his staff members was criticized, it was a lot more credible. let's go ahead and play that. >> i'm sad. that's the predominant emotion i feel right now, is sadness. sadness that i was betrayed by a member of my staff. sadness that i had people who i entrusted with important jobs who acted completely inappropriately. sad that that's led the people

of new jersey to have less confidence in the people that i've selected. >> if senator mccain and senator graham and others want to go after somebody, they should go after me. when they go after the u.n. ambassador, apparently because they think she's an easy target, then they've got a problem with me. >> now, i'm just saying, president obama came out very strong in that press conference. obviously, the situations are different, but in terms of this idea that, you know, christie showed real leadership and obama doesn't, i think that comparison makes it pretty clear. >> well, i mean, these are apples and oranges situations. but the point is that coming out no matter how you perform in a press conference is just the beginning of being able to respond to a real story. before this, remember, when this story first surfaced, christie could afford at the time, it seemed, to joke about it, to use

some of his other powers of persuasion to get everybody to move past this story. both christie and obama are very skillful when they're in trouble. remember how obama handled the reverend wright situation during the campaign. but substance eventually counts. documents count. we now have e-mails in this case. so will a lot of this eventually pass? yes, because scandals always pass. you mentioned the irs scandal. who can really remember that? and that was only last year. >> the republican base, probably. >> but it can be very hard to rev that up if they're not ongoing revelations. if there were ongoing revelations in the irs matter, that would still be a story. the reason this is a real danger to chris christie, is that with the investigative machinery now in gear, there will be ongoing revelations, ongoing documents that are coming out. you'll see a lot of new news pegs to keep this story in the headlines in the weeks and

months ahead. >> absolutely. but i do have to say, i love how everything that happens, somehow the republicans make it about obamacare and benghazi. that is skill. thank you, amanda and jonathan. >> thank you. >> thanks. >> coming up, playing politics with war? blood criticism from former defense secretary bob gates. what impact will it have on the president's leadership and the troops who are still serving in afghanistan? that's next. >> bottom line, this book is a scathing portrait of our so-called commander in chief, a president who opposes our involvement in afghanistan. and there's only one way to describe people with that attitude. 82% of americans. i'm nathan and i quit smoking with chantix. when my son was born, i remember, you know, picking him up and holding him against me. it wasn't just about me anymore. i had to quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke.

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where i have a particular problem with the vice president was in his encouragement of suspicion of the military and the senior military with the president. you can't trust these guys, they're going to try and jam you, box you in, and so on. that did disturb me a lot. >> it's comments like those from fo bob gates that have disrupted washington this week as excerpts from his memoir were released. in it, he takes harsh aim at the dysfunction in washington and congress, but it's the criticism of vice president biden and president obama that's had washington buzzing. gates notes that he almost never agreed with the vice president and that he believed biden has been, quote, wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue. ouch. while gates says he essentially agreed with president obama's decisions, his harshest

criticism focuses on the commander in chief's conviction and passion behind decisions about the afghanistan strategy. writing about a meeting in the situation room, he says, quote, as i sat there, i thought the president doesn't believe if his own strategy and doesn't consider this war to be his. for him, it's all about getting out. but is criticizing a standing president's war strategy appropriate while we still have troops in harm's way? even republican senator john mccain took issue with the timing of the book this morning on cnn. >> frankly, i might have, if i had given him advice, i would have waited. as far as waiting until it's over in afghanistan, i wouldn't have done that. but maybe retrospective of a little longer than now. i also respect his ability to voice his views any time he wants to. >> all right. joining me now to discuss the gates book is washington editor at large of "the atlantic" steve clemens and congressional medal

of honor recipient colonel jack jacobs. thank you so much for joining me. steve, as a former staffer, i kind of gristle at the idea of these tell-all books, particularly while the person is still in office. but just in general, there's sort of an unspoken kind of -- i don't know, you just don't do that. >> well, i think that bob gates, who, you know, served eight presidents and most importantly he was the bridge between the george w. bush administration and barack obama. he's seen it all. he's been through both wars. i've given him a lot of credit in my writing for really saving the day at the end of the bush administration and keeping things that were already bad from getting a lot worse. i have a loot of respect for him. but he's really mugged his colleagues. i think in a very detrimental way. and it's the world according to bob. in a sense, i've begun to look at the book itself. it's very much a holier than thou book and doesn't realize these binary judgments he's anointing people with, either

good or bad, or biden being wrong or this person being right, really escapes the fact he's been managing a lot of shades of gray. i think it's done a big disservice to the administration. >> here's the thing that struck me also. when he was secretary of defense, he had the president's ear. if these were his concerns, he could have talked to the president then and there. why air this publicly and why do so now? >> well, the timing, of course, is all up to the publisher at the end of the day, seriously. and the author doesn't get much say about that. in terms of his talking to the administration at the time that he was part of it, my guess is that he tried, and sometimes he was successful. what this book does, however, is project an incredible frustration at politics in washington, at the politics of this particular white house. i was not alone at the time he decided to stay after the bush

administration. i was not alone in being surprised that he would stay. nevertheless, he was cajoled into doing it. the result was more frustration, and i think this book shows it. >> what do you take, though, colonel, in terms of the impact this has on our troops who are currently in afghanistan? when you see this kind of criticism going back and forth, i mean, i can't imagine that feels very good when you're sitting there and you've given up so many years of your life to be there and so much of your own personal life, your family, what have you, and there's this squabbling going on, this public squabbling about the strategy. >> well, the effect that it has on the troops is inversely proportional to how low in the food chain you are. it has a great deal effect on those in the middle and upper reaches, people involved in policy and execution. having been a soldier if vietnam while all the arguments were going on in public about vietnam, getting shot at while

people were arguing in the united states about people getting shot at in vietnam, i can tell you it has diminishing effect on those who are on the front lines. having said all that, one has to question whether or not it's a good time to do it. like i said, i don't think that bob gates had an opportunity to decide when it was going to get published. >> he's still responsible for when he actually writes the book and turns over the work product. you know, steve, it was interesting because he's actually said he thought it was pomp important to get this all out there while this conversation was still happening. i want to play some sound for you from this morning. he sort of -- i think he was a little bit surprised by the criticism that we've seen over the last week. he sort of kind of, i don't know, trying to have it two way, i guess, on afghanistan and president obama. i'm going to play this and get your reaction. >> i make very explicit in the book that i agreed with all of the president's decisions on afghanistan, the ones he made in

2009 and subsequently. my one concern, as i describe in the book, and to be honest about it, was that over the course of 2010 and early 2011, the president began to have his own reservations about whether it would all work. i think that's not an unfair thing to say. >> steve, your thoughts on that? >> well, i think that -- you know, i've just begun to look at the book itself finally. in that book, he qualifies his statements much more than he does in the publicist's release of the juiciest elements of that book. i think it's important to remember that they led with the criticisms. now on cbs and other places, he's walking some of that back. and i think it's important to realize that the book is a rather sprawling one. i think fundamentally, you know, when he gets at things like afghanistan, which we're still at war in afghanistan, there are still american men and women on the line there, his criticism of

obama of not having passion for the war -- and i find it very disturbing that bob gates, who was a key element in the debate on afghanistan, the biggest strategy review that this white house had since vietnam, is revealing significant portions of other parts of that debate. that was one of the most controversial and complicated decisions for president obama. and he's revealing all right now. that debate needed to be a debate. it needed to be broad based. he should be embracing that. and he's criticizing people and calling them out now on it. i just find it very, very wrong headed. >> and colonel jack, i want to let you have the last word on this. >> you know, president's chief executives have always been concerned about whether or not they made the right decision. i remember sometime a couple decades ago when tapes were declassified and released, white house tapes, with president johnson just after he signed the executive order sending the marines to vietnam. i think the ink was not yet dry on that.

he's heard to say, i'm not quite sure i made the right decision. 58,000 lives later, we were still in vietnam. i think executives owe it to themselves to be very, very careful about what they do and should -- you should always be your own worst critic. castigating someone for being their own worst critic isn't the worst thing. >> all right. we have to leave it there. thank you. coming up, ahead of tonight's golden globes, i'll speak with the woman behind the new hit movie "philomena." ♪ [ male announcer ] rocky had no idea why dawn was gone for so long... ...but he'd wait for her forever, and would always be there with the biggest welcome home. for a love this strong, dawn only feeds him iams. with 2x the meat of other leading brands... ...to help keep rocky's body as strong as a love that never fades.

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or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. up next, millions of women live near the brink of poverty. yet another all-male panel holds a hearing on abortion. the latest in the war on women. and later, my interview with philomena lee, the inspiration for the golden globe nominated

film. that's coming up.

notice anything odd about this picture? nope. in the gop-controlled house, it is par for the course. yet another all-male panel, again, debating legislation that would impose sweeping restrictions on abortion coverage and make the procedure much less affordable for women. back to work forless th less th week, and this is what's topping the gop agenda, chaired by none other than trent franks, mr. rape rarely results in pregnancy. this would ban the new aca insurance marketplaces from covering abortion services and impose an additional tax to small businesses that offer abortion coverage to their employees. clearly, they were not interested in taking the advice of a group of women legislators who wrote a scathing letter to the gop caucus calling for a

focus on issues like, oh, childcare, family leave, you know, the concrete policies that would actually improve women's lives. they said in the letter, quote, the time has come to stop wasting taxpayers' time and dollars waging attacks on women's constitutionally protected right to make informed health care decisions about their own bodies with their own doctors and work on actual legislative agenda for women's needs. joining me now to take a look at this latest in the battle in the war on women, ultra violate cofounder, shawna thomas. thanks to you both for joining me. >> thank you. >> daniella, i want to start with you. they just don't learn. this is the thing. 70% of americans actually support access to abortion. yet, this is the first thing out of the gate that they make a priority. >> it's amazing. that gop rebranding is really going well. i really couldn't believe when i

saw it. not again. all males again. i don't know who's doing their polling. all the polling we have done shows women really care about things that will help them in their every day lives. if they want to help women, they need to be fighting for childcare and paid leave. >> i want to play sound from the hearing. none other than steve king used the hearing to mock a witness who spoke about the huge financial hardships that the legislation would impose on women. let's take a listen. >> while it may not seem like a big expense to a member of congress, in these tough financial times for many people, abortion care costs more than their monthly rent, putting it out of reach for their family's pocketbook. >> i wonder how many abortions a month does she need at the going rate to keep up with a rent check. >> i mean, where's the sensitive talk that speaker boehner was talking about? >> yeah, it's definitely not present in that hearing. it hasn't been present frankly in any gop discussion of the

pending legislation in front of congress right now at all. it's stunning, honestly. it just is. that they would continue to go after women this way. there's such a clear opportunity cost for doing it. they have a mandate, right, up at congress to try and fix, to try and spur an economy that's been slowed for far too long for too many people. we've worked on an unemployment insurance extension. they have an opportunity to do so much. all they can think of -- >> they're obsessed with one part of our anatomy. full disclose sure, i'm a member of the board pro choice america. one of the things about this whole conversation time and again that i think the gop does not get is they seem so out of touch with women's lives. as planned parenthood estimates, a first-term abortion is anywhere from $300 to $ 950.

that's a lot of money for a lot of people. >> there was a study that came out this week that showed 200 or more members of congress are millionaires. >> they don't get it. >> that's just pocket change to me. i find it in the couch every week. for him to say something like that, these are members of congress. i don't put them on pedestals, but they are supposed to be representing us. >> or just to be respectful. >> to be so dismissive is really disturbing. >> one of the other things coming up this week is actually the supreme court is going to hear oral arguments on a case out of massachusetts about buffer zones around women's health centers that actually perform abortions. i think this case is important on many levels. one of the tactics we've seen being used against women is really shaming them as they go into -- and harassing them frankly, as they go into these clini clinics. >> yeah, look, it's a part of -- it is connected, right, to what's happening on the hill in

congress. it's part of a very, very extremist right-wing agenda that is about making sure that women don't have access to basic health care services. and this is one of those tactics. another tactic is making sure that anyone who might get support through their health insurance to cover abortion can't. but certainly shaming letter going in, making it the case that they feel as uncomfortable as possible, making it the case case that they have to go to extreme lengths to control their own reproductive health, you know, access to reproductive health services, it's heartbreaking honestly. and the fact that we need this, that we need this law and that the supreme court has held it up in the past and that we're looking at it again i think is so far outside what americans think should be true about women's experiences with reproductive health. >> i completely agree. daniella, i want to switch gears. while the conservatives keep looking for ways to undermine women's rights, there is a real

economic crisis for women. as you know, 100 million american women live either near the brink of poverty or churn in and out of it. 70% of them are women and children. talk a little bit about the shriver report. i have a copy of it here. if you don't have it, you should get one. a lot of good information. talk about the report and what you hope people get out of it. >> we hope we start a conversation about where women are today. there's a lot of conversation. we talked about shame. there's a lot of shame that people who are struggling financially feel. what we're trying to say is, you know what, it's a lot of people going through this. it could be the woman who takes care of your kids. it could be the woman who takes your coffee order or the person who sits in the cubicle next to you. there are things that we can do to help these women's lives. what i really love about this bo book, government has a role to play here, but it's not just government. our institutions haven't kept up with the way that american families have changed.

what can businesses do, and what can women themselves do to help people push back from the brink. it's all in this book. >> i think we have a full screen of some of the ten things you can do. one of the things i loved is these are things that we in our individual lives can actually do to be a part of the change that we seek as someone we know talks about. thank you to you both. for more on the economic crisis currently facing millions of american women, be sure to catch "all in" tomorrow at 8:00 eastern when chris hayes and maria shriver present "the 50 year war: the changing face of poverty in america." coming up, our disrupter of the week, nominated by a disrupter. a principal allegedly fired for standing up for needy children. that unbelievable story is next. [ male announcer ] this is the story

of the dusty basement at 1406 35th street the old dining table at 25th and hoffman. ...and the little room above the strip mall off roble avenue. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪ this week's disrupter is a long-time educator who stands up for her students, especially the most vulnerable ones no matter

what the cost. noelle roni was principal at peak to peak charter school in colorado. she notice ed something offensi going on in the cafeteria and decided stand up for it. workers were stamping the hands of kids who didn't have enough money to pay for lunch. one grandmother said her grandson asked for pizza in the lunch line, only to be given a cheese sandwich instead and a hand stamp. he was so embarrassed he didn't want to get hot lunch again. after roni voiced concerns, she was fired. she claims it was in retaliation to speaking out. all around the country there have been examples of poor children getting substandard food for lunch or not getting anything at all. a 6-year-old girl in new jersey

was kicked out of the lunch line. students at a middle school in massachusetts were forced to actually throw out their food because they couldn't afford it. and it's especially cruel when you consider that more than 16 million children are food insecure. in fact, 73% of teachers say they have students who regularly show up to school hungry. so for standing up for the children in her school and bringing attention to this issue, noelle roni is our disrupter of the week. who are the disrupters working for positive change in your community? nominate them by tweeting us @msnbcdisrupt. coming up, an inspiring story of forgiveness. philomena lee joins me next to talk about the emmy nominated film that's based on her life. that's next. el monte green bean? ♪ ♪ if i was a flower growing wild and free ♪ ♪ all i'd want is you to be my sweet honeybee ♪ ♪ and if was a tree growing tall and green ♪

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in just a few hours, the who's who of hollywood will be walking down the red carpet for the 71st annual golden globes. one woman who probably never

thought she'd be among that crowd is philomena lee, the inspiration for the film "philomena." it's been nominated for three golden globes, including best picture. some have criticized the film as being anti-catholic because of its honest portrayal of the nuns who force philomena to give up her son for adoption against her will and later made it nearly made it impossible for her to find him. but when you talk to philomena, as i had the honor of doing, it's clear her story actually represents the best of what faith is about. love and forgiveness. philomena, i'd like to start with you. did you ever think that your life story or this part of your life story would be a film and that you'd be going to the golden globes, nominated for an award? >> never in 100 years.

never realized ever when i first told my daughter the story ten years ago. i didn't know it was going to be a booklet let alone a film >> how exciting was it when you found out judy would be playing you? >> what more could i ask for such a beautiful lovely lady taking my part, playing my story? absolutely wonderful. wonderful altogether. >> and steven, what was it that attracted you to this project, to this material? >> well, it is such a terrible story and such a heartbreaking story. but then of course on top of it, steve and jeff constructed this rather wonderful comedy or road movie or whatever you call it between philomena and martin. so really, it was a tragedy and a comedy at the same time. >> well, that was one of the things i noticed in the film.

there was such a balance between, you know, the humor in light of what is obviously a painful story but then also an inspirational story. how did you find that balance? >> in a way, the humor is the inspiration. there's such vitality between the two of them. so the story doesn't just -- isn't just miserable and depressing. it's very, you know, cheering and possibly inspirational. >> i guess, philomena, for my viewers who may not have seen the film, tell us -- can you just give us a little background in terms of, you know, is 1952 ireland, what were the options for young girls? i suspect there really were not many. and tell us just about your story. >> well, in 1952, which was when i became pregnant, there was no other option but to go into a convent for the mother and baby. there i had to stay because i had no other -- i had stayed for

3 1/2 years and reared anthony for 3 1/2 years because i had nowhere else to go. my father disowned me, didn't want me back home. so i had to go in there and work in the laundries for 3 1/2 years and helped to rear him. that was it, really. until he was adopted in 1955. >> and how did you find out that anthony had been adopted? >> well, in june of '55, i had to sign him away. i tried everything over the years, the 3 1/2 years i was there. could i go out, take him out with me? but i couldn't. so i had to -- the only way i could make sure he had a better life was to sign him away because i couldn't have given him anything in those days. i was only a very young teenager at the time. and being that my father didn't want me, my mother died when i was 6, so i didn't have my mother to help out. so therefore, my father did not want me home. the shame of it in those days,

we were so ostracized. the shame of having a baby out of wedlock was absolutely awful. so the only option was to have him adopted and go to america. he went to a very good home in america. it was a very heartbreaking for me to see him go. rearing him for the 3 1/2 years, it was very, very sad. but i've had to get over it over the years. i've never, ever, ever forgotten him. my one aim in life, my whole life, was to one day maybe please god i will find him. >> philomena, one of my favorite moments in the movie is when you make it clear that you have forgiven the nuns for what happened. i imagine that was a difficult thing to do, and i'm curious to know sort of how you came to process of sort of rectifying with your faith but also offering the -- being able to

forgive. >> well, it was very hard. when i left after 3 1/2 years, anthony was taken away. the same nuns got me a job over in liverpool in england. there i worked in a boy's school for two years and was so -- i was so heartbroken the whole time. couldn't do anything about it. but he was gone. i tried -- i thought, if only i could get him back. but there was no way i could get him back. i had signed him away. but then after two years, i decided i wanted to take up nursing as a career. i went down to a little town just aside london. there i've lived ever since. i did psychiatric nursing for 30 years. over the years when you work in a psychiatric hospital, you see so much sorrow that comes out of bitterness and pain. so i gradually, gradually over

the years, you know -- i did forgive. i haven't really -- hadn't lost my religion. it's nothing against the catholic religion. i always prayed within my heart that one day i would find anthony. gradually, i accepted it and helped the psychiatric patients. so much bitterness can come out of not being able to forgive, not being able to forgive. i've seen so much of it throughout my nursing career. so it was able to help me to resign myself and forgive the nuns, which i had forgiven over the years. after all, i suppose in those days there was nothing else they could do. they did help me. there was nowhere else i could go, so they were there to help me. >> and steven, i personally have been very surprised at the sort of charge that the film is

anti-catholic. i think it's anything but, particularly, you know, if you think about the pope that we currently have who talks about the importance of transparency and the importance of openness. i mean, this is a part of history that feels like, you know, you have to accept the good with the bad. but i feel like it's so much more of a story of forgiveness and coming to peace with having lost her son. were you surprised at the charges against the film? >> well, like you, i don't attach much importance to them. i mean, the catholic church is very, very easy to attack. in fact, this is the story of a woman who keeps her faith, you know, and remains devout. so you would have thought the church would be on its knees with gratitude. in fact, i've been asking for the pope to see it since venice. >> do you think the pope will see it? >> the other day i was told the vatican now did know about it. they now know about the film.

someone from the vatican has now seen it. i think the pope ought to see it. i think he'd like it very much. >> well, thank you both so much for joining me. good luck tonight at the golden globes. >> oh, my goodness. >> and thank you very much indeed. thank you. >> thanks. my thanks to philomena and steven. you can see how philomena does tonight at the golden globes. be sure to tune in this evening at 8:00 p.m. eastern on nbc. that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. please don't forget, share your thoughts all week long. find us on facebook and tweet us @msnbcdisrupt. i will see you back here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. eastern. until then, have a great week. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents the cold truth. i have the flu, i took medicine but i still have symptoms. [ sneeze ] [ male announcer ] truth is not all flu products treat all your symptoms. what? [ male announcer ] nope, they don't have an antihistamine. really? [ male announcer ] really. [ dog whine ] but alka-seltzer plus severe cold and flu

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