the keystone. >> one of the great political stories, howard dean, what his state's motto was. did not know the answer and responded something in latin, which it was not. >> what did you learn today? >> you know, i'm fascinated by chris christie's story evolves, regardless of the outcome. things are looking a little different right now. we'll see how it looks a year from now. >> all right. >> way too early, what time? >> time for "morning joe," but now time for "the daily rundown." >> chuck todd is that guy, right? >> yeah, chuck todd is that guy. yeah. ♪ can you hear me now? can they listen in now? in just two hours, president obama will try to reassure the country about what the nsa is doing and how he wants to change it. the big speech about spying and security just happens to fall on the anniversary of ike's famous military industrial complex farewell. plus, up in smoke. a deep dive into how decades of activism and popular culture changed the country's attitude

about marijuana, and the reality now for states where it's legal, frankly where that legality is headed next. here she goes again, the bush family may tree atriarch, chasing the white house isn't about just perhaps her own son. good morning from washington. friday, january 17, 2014. let's get to my first reads of the morning. 11:00 a.m. this morning, the president will try yet again to put the debate over nsa survey license behind him. he'll try to strike a middle ground between security and privacy, announcing enough reforms to preserve the intelligence community's ability to collect, search phone and internet data, while using the force of his personality to restore some faith in the surveillance programs, particularly with his -- some of his supporters who are not happy with what he's done. he'll also signal he plans to leave some of the big decisions going forward to congress.

one question is, with congress unlikely to agree on some of these things, could the president end up prolonging the debate over spying and pleasing neither the intelligence community or privacy advocates? but in a nod to privacy advocates, the president will say the government should not hold the data from telephone and internet records. it will stop short of saying where the data should be held, and he'll ask attorney general holder and the intelligence community how the country can preserve the program but outside the federal government, and he's also going to ask congress to weigh in, as well. his own advisory panel had recommended that the meta data be stored by a third party, possibly phone companies. but the phone and tech companies, they don't want the data, and there's no consensus on where it should be kept. a third-party vendor is not going to fix the government's perception problems. that's a government contractor, right? the president will also require intelligence agencies to obtain permission from a secret court getting a, quote, judicial finding before being able to use this database of bulk collection.

but it will reject calls to split the nsa from the cyber command, which advocates wou would -- said would have assured more civilian oversight. right now, it really is part of the pentagon and part of the military chain of command. he will endorse a widely supported proposal to put an independent privacy advocate in the fisa courtroom, and is expected to support greater protections for non-u.s. citizens, a move geared toward restoring trust among key european allies. but he's also going to call for more oversight over any of the surveillance on when it comes to foreign leaders. of course, it's classic obama. staking a middle ground that tries to stay consistent with the values he campaigned on in 2008, but also tries to recognize his duty to protect the country from national security threats. it's worth noting how agress everly the white house is pushing back on two "the new york times" stories, the first earlier this week, reporting that the president would keep the surveillance programs intact, and you could make an argument that he is not saying he wants to get rid of the

entire program. so he wants to keep it intact, not how. second, this morning, narrating what the paper called obama's path from critic to overseer of spying. but when it comes to the larger question of security versus privacy, there's no doubt that the president and the white house have evolved. as yahoo! news' olivier reports, january 17th, 1961, president dwight eisenhower, five-star general, shocked americans with this dire warning in his farewell address as president. >> in the counsels of government, we must guard against the activation of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. the potential or the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. >> white house officials say the timing of the president's speech today is simply a coincidence, but it's a fitting one. for the past five years, the

president has struggled with this security versus liberty question. in 2007, during the president's -- during his first presidential campaign, he gave a speech on surveillance state run amok where he blasted the bush administration at the time. >> this administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we provide. i will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our constitution and our freedom. that means no more illegal wiretapping of american citizens. no more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. >> either way, just a reminder of how the president can age any president in there. the president proclaimed we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals, and during his 2012 run for president, he recommitted himself to those ideals.

>> we don't have to trade our values and ideals for our security. >> we don't. >> do you still feel that way -- >> we don't. one of the things we've got to do is put a legal architecture in place, and we need congressional help to do that to make sure not only am i reined in, but any president is reined in in terms of some of the decisions we're making. >> in reality, president obama has not only continued but expand many of the previous administration's national security policies. the debate over the nsa was left on the back burner, overshadowed by debates over enhanced interrogation and drones, all of that until the edward snowden leaks in june. ever since, the president has been doing his best to get the nsa business politically behind him. >> i was a critic of the previous administration for those occasions in which i felt they had violated our values. what i have been able to do is examine and scrub how our intelligence services are

operating, and i'm confident that at this point we have struck the appropriate balance. some people say, well, obama was this raving liberal before, and now he's dick cheney, and dick cheney sometimes says -- you know, he took lock, stock and barrel -- my concern has always been not that we shouldn't do intelligence gathering to prevent that terrorism, but rather are we setting up a system of checks and balances? >> now, it's unlikely the president is going to please privacy advocates today who want the program ended. it's not ending. in a statement to "the new york times," responding to the earlier reporting, aclu executive director said this quote. if the speech is anything like what is being reported, the president will go down in history for having retained and defended george w. bush's surveillance programs, rather than reform them. for civil liberties advocates, today's announcement is another reminder the president has continued and in some cases expanded some of the national security policies, he's

accelerated the use of drones. unable to close the prison at guantanamo bay despite his stated desire to do so, and we'll see how much benefit of the doubt privacy advocates will give the president. it's unclear privacy advocates will be satisfied with modern reforms. they said the president should follow his panel's advice. >> what they recommended, particularly with respect to collecting millions and millions of phone records on law-abiding americans, is, one, it was necessary to prevent terror attacks. two, existing authorities would be sufficient to deal with those threats. >> they say, well, we're very protective of all this information. baloney. they weren't protective enough that they could stop a subcontractor, mr. snowden -- >> right. >> -- from stealing millions of their biggest secrets, and to

this day they still don't know all of what he's stolen. >> the intelligence community is also already critical. here's former nsa and cia director michael haden this morning. >> with regard to who holds the data, frankly, no one will hold it as well, in all dimensions of the word well, than the national security agency. so it's no surprise that the president has punted that question to congress. it appears the president will now demand that the nsa go to the fisa court before they ask the data a question. i was the director of nsa on september 11th. that procedure reminds me of the way we operated before the september 11th attacks. >> bottom line, if the obama administration's goal was to put this issue behind them, proposing the middle ground, probably isn't going to do that. the debate isn't going to end. and now, it will involve congress, and maybe even the 2016 field. indeed, how republicans react

will be fascinating to watch. we'll see the rand paul versus the peter kings and maybe even chris christies, and it could be divisive in a democratic primary, but now, there is no serious contender to hillary clinton, and she may not have to deal with it in the same vein that candidates on the gop side will. moving on, with very little fanfare, yesterday, the senate passed a $1.1 trillion bill to fund the government until at least october. in washington-speak, it's called the omnibus, and it wraps all 12 spending bills into one massive, 1,182-page bill, and the bill passed 72-26, all 25 democrats as well as 17 republicans voted. and the house overwhelmingly passed the same bill earlier this week. but it's amazing, we've talked about the big number. but there's a whole bunch of winners and losers in this bill that you may not know about, and we thought we'd bring it to your attention. there were questions about whether votes on the bill would be delayed, because senator ted

cruz was again calling to defund the president's health care law. well, that didn't happen. but opponents of the health care law did manage to strip $1 billion from the so-called prevention and public health fund. republican opponents were afraid that the administration would use the money improve the rollout of the health exchanges, so they defunded that portion of it. when it comes to the controversial kucuts in militar pensions approved as the murray-ryan bill, this exempts wounded military personnel who retire early and their surviving spouses from the benefit cuts. it also provides $157 million for the sexual assault and prevention office, to expand the pentagon's sexual assault programs. with a 1,500-page bill comes with plenty of red meat, which both candidates can run on, run for, or run against. spending bill prohibits any funds used to transfer guantanamo detainees to the united states. so think about that.

basically, it prevents any effort to shut done the prison, and it does so using money. the benghazi blame game has been in the news this week. this spending bill provides $25 million more for embassy security around the world than the president had requested. and it bans foreign aid for libya until secretary kerry, quote, confirms libyan cooperation in the investigation into the benghazi attack. by the way, this spending bill also effectively bars the state department from moving the u.s. embassy at the vatican, something that's become a little bit of a talking point on conservative talk radio. and then, don't miss this one, also snuck into the bill, there will be no end to saturday delivery of the u.s. mail, at least for now. the bill bars the u.s. postal service from ending it. this bill also bans the irs -- the irs funding to target groups based on their ideological beliefs. of course, one would assume that was already illegal. there is no federal funding for high-speed rail in this bill, one of the president's projects. and as we reported yesterday,

earlier reports suggest opponents of moving the drone program from the cia to the pentagon may have gotten their way. again, using dollars to prevent it from happening. and finally, a big apology to our friends in the presidential cabinet. this bill bars the use of federal money for painting portraits, one of the few perks that was there, and the president's pay freeze will continue. well, speaking of following the money, the senate is losing one of its most outspoken critics of wasteful government spending. unfortunately, it's a health reason that is behind tom coburn's early retirement. we'll tell you more about that after the break. and high times. harry reid announced he supports legalizing marijuana for medical use. up next, taking a deep dive into the history of pot in politics. plus, new developments this morning in chris christie's crisis as new jersey lawmakers issue subpoenas aimed at the governor's inner circle. first, a look at the

politics planner. the nsa speech, obviously, is the big news there. don't forget, chris christie tonight becomes a national politician again where he goes to florida for some fund-raising. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. e my dau- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost. her long day of pick ups and drop offs begins with arthritis pain... and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪ i nethat's my geico digital insurance id card -

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in today's "deep dive," an amazing transformation. over the course of this country's history, marijuana has gone from being a useful crop to an evil weed. but now, it's turning into a booming legal business that's selling out supplies and generating hundreds of millions in much-needed tax revenue. how did we get here? the american relationship with pot started on good terms. in 1619, the virginia assembly required every farmer should grow hemp. but by the 1900s, marijuana

started showing up in pharmacies, and 1906, congress passed first pot restriction, requiring labelling for any cannabis products. still, marijuana was widely accepted in a variety of medicines. around that same time, two things happened. the mexican revolution drove a flood of immigrants into the united states. anti-drug campaigners blamed the immigrants for the spike in drug use. the great depression only compounded the problem. unemployment fuelled public resentment and fear of mexican immigrants. and then, a series of new studies linked marijuana with violent crime. by 1931, 29 states had outlawed marijuana all together. the federal bureau of narcotics created in the uniform state narcotic act. forced states to take control of the dug problem. then, in the toughest move yet, congress passed the marijuana tax act. effectively criminalizing marijuana. the fevered anti-drug campaign culminated in reefer madness, a propaganda film from 1936. >> innocently they dance.

innocent of a new and deadly menace lurking behind closed doors. ♪ marijuana, the burning weed with its roots in hell. >> in the '50s, congress enacted stricter sentencing laws, at one point, actors robert mitchum and lela leeds were convicted of conspiracy to smoke cigarettes. the johnson report found that studies found that it did not induce violence or act as a gateway. and "high times" published in 1964. it was supposed to be a "playboy" spoof, but it grew in popularity. the counterculture movement spurred change in 1970s. president nixon ordered his own bipartisan study on the harms of hashish, but when the results showed no link between marijuana use and violent behavior, nixon

simply rejected the findings. the anti-pot effort gained steam with first lady nancy reagan's just say no campaign, and president reagan signed tough new legislation instituting federal mandatory minimums for crimes. and then in 1989, president george h.w. bush declared a war. >> our outrage against drugs unites us, brings us together behind this one plan of action. an assault on every front. >> pot growers, smokers, and dealers were jailed but pot did not go away. president clinton was more tolerant of marijuana, and in the 1992 campaign, he advocated treatment over jail time. and in 1996, the voters of california spoke. california passed proposition 215. it allowed the sale and medical use of marijuana. and that's where it started. now, 20 states and the district of columbia have legalized medical marijuana, but there's serious tension between the laws

of the state and federal law, which still carries jail time for possession. washington state has legalized recreational use, but local mayors are trying to restrict pot in their own towns. and the success of legalization in colorado may spur other states to follow their lead. a handful of denver dispensaries, licensed to sell pot, sold out in the first week. and finally, there's another side of the changing times. senate majority leader harry reid told "the las vegas sun" he's evolved on the pot issue. he said he's changed his minds and thinks there are medical reasons for using marijuana. the state of colorado expects to make $67 million in tax revenue off of marijuana sales. is this the future for other cash-strapped states? joining me is a longtime advocate allen st. pierre, with the national organization to reform marijuana laws. how are you? >> good morning. >> good morning. you guys are mainstream. >> it feels that way. >> it is for the first time in a long time. i went through a little bit of

the history. what do you think truly was the trigger? like, what was the tipping point that you believe that suddenly you guys went from, boy, nobody will take your calls, they'll talk to you, but they won't put you on tv, won't do -- what changed? >> certainly the 1996 vote in california. when californians, this nation state unto itself, voted for medical marijuana, within years people started to sell it illegally in the retail environment. >> mm-hmm. >> and under, say, schwarzenegger, very laissez faire, didn't use the state apparatus to stop it at all, and the federal government went in there, and then, of course, it had to be the votes in washington and colorado last year, that really is the tipping point. when normal was founded in 1970, 9% supported legalization, today it's 58%, according to gallup. one can appreciate how mr. reid evolved to this point. >> it's interesting, we're watching this sort of two -- there's two ways, and some people have compared it to the evolution on gay marriage. >> sure. >> you've had civil unions in,

in this case, medical marijuana, and then you have recreational use, and that's same-sex marriage. is your goal now that you want recreational use decriminal -- full decriminalization? what's the ultimate goal? >> it's always been to end the prohibition of marijuana and replace it with alternatives that are constitutionally compliant, that have regulations and controls that you actually benefit from the sale. >> mm-hmm. you want to be treated like alcohol and cigarettes? >> absolutely. in colorado, the day before it became legal on the first of the year, an ounce sold for $100. the next day, it sold for $135 and the state got $35 per ounce. we're looking at hundreds of millions. colorado is looking at $600 million this year in taxes. >> do you feel it's a responsibility, now, normal, though, to talk about what are the downsides of overusing? just, like, look, people abuse

alcohol. >> sure. >> as a parent, and i said this, i am more concerned about binge drinking on college campuses than i am smoking too much dope. >> yeah. >> but i don't want my kid smoking too much dope either. i want him focusing on school. >> there's no doubt marijuana can be abused and that's the standard we should use -- like we have for alcohol. if you abuse it, there's no doubt, not enough civil and criminal laws and education to deter that. when it comes to using it responsibly, particularly on your own property as an adult, there's no doubt this is no longer a strong concern for americans. decriminalization enjoys 85% support rate. medical marijuana, about 80%, and now 60% for legalization. >> and just to clarify, you guys are focused on marijuana laws. do you believe this -- does the organization believe when it comes to cocaine, meth, other harder-core drugs that any of that should be decriminalized? >> i think it should be decriminalized. there should be harm reduction. but i do not see that cocaine, lsd, meth should be sold in a

retail environment. there's no support for that in the united states. >> what do you guys do -- walk me through the next couple of years. are you guys going to be doing ballot initiatives, state constitutional campaigns? what is it that you guys are now focused on trying to get done? >> 2014, we'll have oregon and alaska, and we have a couple of -- >> for recreational use. both of them have been medical for a while. >> absolutely. the gradual maturation on those. we think california, there's a chance could join this group in 2014. for legalization. and it only lost by three percentage points in 2010 for legalization. >> to be a cynic here, how -- how is california really not legalized recreational use? it is not hard to get one of the green cards, i'm told. >> and that's where we're frustrated, that sacramento -- unlike the folks in denver, when they saw the genie come out of the bottle, they decided they're going to regulate it. really the pox is on the house in sacramento, not to do what they've done in denver. >> what about congress? >> congress, there's about 180

people in congress, in an un-whipped way, we would suggest, make up a cannabis caucus. in the senate, 10, 15 senators who support legalization. >> what does that need with the justice department? right now, justice department, it's simply been an executive decision, we're not going -- we're not going to enforce, we're not going to do this, but a new administration, how do you codify that? >> it's frustrating, done by memo, not even executive memo. yes, the change of president this time around, if there was a president pence, shall we say, no, there would be a huge change. one expects if a democrat, who's centrist, left of center, they're probably going to take this and run with this. >> all right. allen st. pierre, executive director for normal, welcome normal, now add another a, because everybody is treating you as a normal political group. no more shunned on the sidelines. up next, cracking the compromise on the voting right the act, restoring some parts struck down by the supreme

court, that congressman john lewis called unbelievable. are we really done with dynasties? the wife of one bush president and mother of another says the country doesn't need another president bush. and this is the second time she's done this. i guess she wants somebody to take a hint. but first, today's trivia question. who is the first child born in the white house? first person to tweet the correct answer, chucktodd@dailyrundown. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is

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you like our new graphics? time for the "databank." everybody is nodding. kicking off the weekend with a lot of some natural disasters, past and present, as well as another match-up of two nfl all-time greats. but first, eight, as in eight u.s. senators now calling it quits. oklahoma republican senator tom coburn added his name to the list last night, announcing he plans to retire at the end of the current session. two years shy of completing his second term. the 65-year-old doctor turned

lawmaker has been battling prostate cancer, but said his health is not the reason for his decision, fully. the next number is 20. that's how many subpoenas have been issued by new jersey lawmakers investigating the lane closures at the george washington bridge. they went to three organizations and 17 people that are linked to the governor and the scandal, the "star ledger" reports they include several of the governor's current and former aides, including, former deputy chief of staff kelly. 206 days. how long it's been since the supreme court struck down the heart of the voting rights act last june. the court threw out a formula to prevent states from changing their election laws without federal permission. now, on thursday, a bipartisan group of lawmakers introduced new legislation to reinstate congressional and judicial oversight for those states or perhaps create a national standard. heading to the west coast. well, for our next number, it's 1,700, how many acres have been burned by the colby fire. just 25 miles northeast of

downtown los angeles, as of late last night. it was just 30% contained. the fire is being helped by one of the driest januarys in california history. remember, you may think that this is, like, white noise when it comes to wildfires in california. they are not supposed to happen in january, folks. our next number is 20, as in the 20th anniversary. 20 years ago today the north ridge earthquake struck southern california, killed at least 57 people, flattened buildings, knocked out highway overpasses and caused billions of dollars in damage. it led to upgrades in how bridges are secured and forced updates in the building code. 20 years later, still major concerns that california is not ready for the next big one. finally, 14. that's how many times the broncos' peyton manning and patriots' brady have gone head-to-head. brady has won the lion's share, 10, including two of the three playoff match-ups. but good grief. for peyton manning's legacy sake, don't we all want him to win at this point? i know there's a bunch of patriots fans out there,

including one of my producers, but come on. i don't want to deal with all of the sports talk radio about peyton manning. coming up, the republican dream of retaking the senate hinges on a few states. perhaps think north carolina, alaska, kentucky. does the tea party help or hurt their cause? we'll talk to the former spokesman for the party's senate campaign organization and the co-founder of the tea party express. we're going to debate this topic. don't forget, 90 minutes from now, the president will deliver the much anticipated speech about the future of the nsa. you can see it here live at 11:00 here on msnbc. you're watching "the daily rundown." s sex drive s sex drive increases at the age of 80. helps reduce the risk of heart disease. it seems that 80 is the new 18. grannies, bless your heart, you are bringing sexy back! eat up. keep heart-healthy. live long. for a healthy heart, eat the 100% natural whole grain goodness of post shredded wheat.

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developing now. you're looking at live pictures here of the white house where secretary sebelius is marking the 50th anniversary of the landmark surgeon general that for the first time said that smoking causes lung cancer and death. now, a new report by the surgeon general warns that smoking causes even more harm than previously thought, in addition to linking smoking to cancer and

heart attacks, the report ties smoking to diabetes, colorectal and liver cancer, rheumatoid arthritis and maclear degeneration. now to the 2014 midterms. now, the democrats hold the majority, if you count the two independents that caucus with them, an advantage that they say is due to tea party takeovers. there are some establishment republicans that believe it's the only reason the democrats are in control of the u.s. senate, while the gop has reason to be optimistic about the chances of retaking the senate this november, democrats are counting on the tea party to help them hold on. their hope is that tea party candidates in competitive primaries either win or pull the so-called mainstream candidates too far to the right, that it hurts those candidates in a general election. at the top of the list, states like kentucky whereby mitch mcconnell has to find a way and tea party challenger, and matt

k kivy free of freedom works says, grimes will pose a formidable challenge. >> if mitch mcconnell wins the primary, he's highly vulnerable in the general. if you're worried about saving that seat, you may need to reconsider your premises. >> in georgia, there are eight republicans, including three house members, that are battling it out in a race that's seen some fiscal and social conservative pushing the entire group to the right. democrats believe that could help michelle nunn in the general. and places like alaska where failed 2010 candidate joe miller is back. in a state where the gop believes it has a golden opportunity to knock off democrat mark begich. ken buck, he ran and lost in 2010, and he would carry that baggage into a race against mark udall if he can get out of the primary. north carolina, greg brannan has been a thorn in the side of the republican front-runner tom tillis. louisiana, bill cassidy has been pushed to the right by tea party favorite, rob manus. and as we said before, there are plenty of times where incumbents are facing the tea party

challengers. it includes pat roberts of kansas, lamar alexander in tennessee, lindsey graham in south carolina, and john cornyn in texas. but the senators and their allies don't intend to take the challenges lightly, and as evidenced by this super-pac ad that blasts steve stockman. >> lies. shady deals. ethical failings. it's everything that's wrong with washington, and it's congressman steve stockman's troubling record. >> joining me now is brian walsh, former spokesman of the national republican senatorial committee. brian, sal, how are you doing? sal, i'll start with you. i think you might contend that my setup there buys into the premise that says the tea party has been a problem for republicans regaining the senate. why is that -- why do you not believe that's the case? >> well, i think you just look at the facts, you know, starting with 2010. people like you and your fellow pundits said democrats will gain

seats in the house, and we won 63 -- >> i don't know how many people thought they'd gain seats, but go ahead. >> i mean, i think if you go back to early 2009, most people thought that democrats were going to win seats. and so, that tea party injected so much energy and enthusiasm and excitement in the republican party that it led to that terrific election in 2010. in 2012, the tea party did quite well. we peicked up, 27 house seats, tea party members, won three of the four senate races we were in. it was really the establishment candidates that floundered in 2012. and frankly, you know, even though we had primary opponents against them, we campaigned vigorously for them, you know, wisconsin, michigan, all over the country. >> yeah. >> i think the thing that's most important is today, i think both the tea party and the more established people want to take the senate. we know the problem is harry reid and barack obama. so we're going to have our dust-up, but at the end of the

day, there will be a united front to retake the senate and restore fiscal sanity to washington. >> given the political environment as it stands, do you believe if the republicans do not gain control of the senate, it is the sole fault with the tea party? >> i believe what saul said, the tea party energy in 2010 was important, but we gave away five senate seats. >> nevada, colorado. >> delaware. >> delaware, indiana, missouri. >> and missouri. the good news, i think, in a lot of the states you listed where there are primary, they're red states. i believe the incumbents will prevail in all of them, but regardless -- >> really two places that you're mildly -- >> kentucky. >> kentucky will be a 50-50 race. >> kentucky and georgia. >> and maybe mississippi because the democrats do contend they're going to fight a candidate. >> we'll see about that. i had to laugh a little bit when i saw the interview, talking about how mitch mcconnell is vulnerable. they've spent over $1 million.

i that he'll prevail regardless. harry reid and the democrats are laughing all the way to election day. >> sal, what do you say to the criticism, so, for instance, you look at indiana. there would not -- if you guys -- if you guys don't get behind richard murdock, dick lugar is in the united states senate today, and at a minimum, we're looking at 54-46, and it's five seats that the republicans need, not six. so that's one. mike cassel would be in the united states senate -- >> let me say -- >> you can't sit here and say -- >> -- was a very good candidate. i mean, one of -- >> you really believe he was a good candidate? you may agree with him on principle, but he ran a horrible campaign. >> no, i don't think i agree with that. one of the biggest problems he had is dick lugar didn't endorse him and support him. and so, he never was able to close the sale in those suburbs of indianapolis, which were key. and so, when he did have the slip of the tongue, it became a fatal slip of the tongue. you know, i would put the blame on losing that thing squarely on senator lugar.

and so, what you can't have is, which we see sometimes, the establishment says, well, you have to support our candidate if we win, but we don't have to support your candidate when we win. the secret to success when you're losing elections, as republicans have done, is you got to add. it's a question of addition not subtraction. >> brian, respond to that a little bit, because there's been some cases where the primary went the wrong way and establishment did walk away. >> look, i wish -- the rnc spent millions of dollars for lugar. there's no question that he and todd aiken and others hadn't frankly stuck their foot in the mouth, they'd be senators today, and they did not run the type of campaign they should have. so again, i just hope that -- i agree with the folks, danny reberg, should have won the last cycle, but at the same time, i would hope the tea party groups would vet some of the candidates, like christine o'donnell and sharon engel, disastrous candidates. >> this has been the knock that in the enthusiasm of sort of knocking out the establishment and shaking things up, that you

back some questionable candidates. joe miller, frankly, was not vetted very well. christine o'donnell -- >> let me quarrel one thing what you said. todd aiken was not our candidate. that's false. we supported sarah stillman. >> fair enough. >> we did not think todd aiken was a good candidate. [ overlapping speakers ] -- others, but go ahead. >> i do not think he was the tea party candidate in missouri. there's a difference between 2012 and 2014 as compared to 2010. in 2010, there was no question the tea party movement emerged, because both republican party and the democratic party lost sight of spending, lost sight of growing the government. there was a frustration with both parties. >> so you got ahead of the skis? >> it was important in 2010 to stand up and shake up the republican party and challenge people. and say, look, we cannot spend ourselves into prosperity. we can't sustain this national debt that we're doing. and so, yes, we were a lot more aggressive in 2010.

in 2012, we challenged one incumbent. i mean, we were not out there trying to defeat incumbents. we were trying to grow the republican caucus so we'd have a conservative majority in washington. so some of the knocks, i think, are unfair. >> brian, when you look at georgia, though, when you look at democrats that have had success recruiting candidates because of this perception that, you know what, the party primaries are going to move the republican candidates too far to the right. michelle nunn, does she fully get in if she doesn't think the republican primary isn't going to get messy and move to the right in georgia? let's look in north -- i guess i would ask you this. if north carolina and georgia end up democrat, do you lay that at the feet of the tea party? >> it's too early to tell right now. there's seven, eight candidates running in georgia. it's too early to tell. look, michelle nunn, kay hagan, and a number of the other democrats, the problem now is oba obamacare, and that will hang like an anchor and the neck, no matter who the republican nomination goes to. >> sal, tea party. we call it a tea party. is it a party? what is it?

do you want it to be a political party that actually, you know, in an ideal world, would we -- would the conservative movement be split into two, a republican party and a tea party? >> no, we have a two-party system. so, you know, ideally, for me, i would like -- and i think the tea party express, we'd like a fiscally conservative caucus. >> are you going to look for democrats -- you're just saying you're going to find democrats to endorse? >> we have tried. the problem is, in fact, we did endorse one in 2010. but the problem is, is that with the pressure they get from nancy pelosi and barack obama, even those democrats that are unhappy with spending are fearful of stepping out. so it's nearly impossible for us to find a democrat we could support. >> brian walsh, tough on twitter when it comes to some of the tea party groups. are they an asset or not? >> some of them are. look at americans for prosperity, spending millions of dollars going after the democrat -- >> you feel they're an asset? >> they're an asset, and other groups are cannibalizing the party and are raising money at

the expense of winning in november. but i think groups like americans for prosperity, i wish other group wus would follow th lead. >> all right. we shall see. brian walsh, sal ruesell, we were reminiscing about the jack kemp days. good to see you. brian walsh, always good to catch up with you. coming up, today's "take away" all in the family, barbara bush doubles down on her opinion that the white house has had enough residents named bush. programming note for you, this sunday on nbc's "meet the press," former defense secretary and cia director robert gates will react to the president's proposals to reform the nsa. but first, white house soup of the day. it's friday. so it's seafood, ragin' cajun gumbo. [ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay. you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement

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i think this is a great american country, great country, and if we can't find more than two or three families to run for high office, that's silly. and i think that kennedys, clintons, bushes, there are just more families than that. i would hope that someone else would run, although there's no question in my mind that jeb is the best qualified person to run for president, but i hope he won't, because i think he'll get all my enemies.

>> well, there you go. doesn't look like former first lady barbara bush has changed her mind when it comes to 2016 politics. bush family matriarch is doubling down on comments she made on nbc last april when she said there have been enough bushes in the white house and she doesn't want to see her son, jeb bush, run for office. in the new interview, she repeated the line about the fact there are more than just a few families in the united states qualified to occupy 1600 pennsylvania avenue, so were her comments simply about jeb, or was there another potential 2016 candidate that mrs. bush had a message for? she mentioned the clinton name there, as you can see, and she was talking about hillary clinton as much as anybody else, as it is about her own son. the bushes and the clintons occupied the white house for two consecutive decades and hillary and jeb would find a similar struggle, separating themselves with the political baggage associated with their last

names. other note here, the fact that mrs. bush made these comments for a second time, the first time they felt in the moment, this one felt more thought out and more planned. what should we take away from that, that jeb bush hasn't asked his mom to ratchet back the public comments, maybe he hasn't convinced her that he should run, or she's decided not to run and frankly doesn't care what his mom says on this topic. anyway, it's fascinating, and remember, i've always contended in an odd way, both hillary and jeb would benefit from the other. they both, their negatives of their last names are actually less of a problem if there's someone from the other side with a similar problem. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." don't forget, you can watch the president's speech on nsa reforms live at 11:00 on msnbc. coming up next is chris jansing. i'll see you monday. een percentr more on car insurance. everybody knows that parker. well,

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20 subpoenas in the bridgegate scandal. what's next for new jersey governor chris christie? and an obamacare replacement? john boehner is promising republicans will come up with their own plan and vote on it this year to prove to voters they are for something. and one congresswoman's fight to get justice for rape victims. i'm telling you, this story will shock you. good morning, i'm chris jansing. president obama getting ready to deliver a highly anticipated major speech on the nsa. government spying and your privacy coming up in one hour. he will announce changes to these controversial programs, but it's a major challenge trying to strike a balance between privacy and security, especially since whatever he does, there will be critics on both sides of the aisle. let's listen to former nsa chief, michael hayden. >> frankly, i think the substance of the speech is going to be holding his ground. and i don't know that american intelligence agencies are going to be doing a whole lot of th