and "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> after the game game yesterda russell haythorn was after the stadium in denver after the game. the big news reporters are looking to get people screaming and jumping up and down. not russell. if enthusiasm is infectious it would seem that russell haythorn has discovered a vaccine. >> give us your best broncos. >> broncos, world champs! >> let's go broncos! >> thanks. >> good job. >> i like the face paint there. come on over. how was the game? >> oh, it was great. it was awesome. >> good job. >> back to you in the studio or not. i really don't care. >> good morning. it is tuesday, january 21st.

>> is your mom's birthday today? >> okay i got to call her. >> with us on the set. >> i got an e-mail now. she is not going to remember. she never does. she always goes, how old am i? i was born in 1932. >> that was the year my mom was born. >> isn't that cool? >> hey, mom. how are you doing? >> welcome to "morning joe." that was a good reminder. with us on the set is msnbc contributor mike barnicle. msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halpern. former communications director for george w. bush, nicole wallace. >> hi. >> i just sit in the morning in this chair. so we have conversations. conversations. >> that's right. >> i plumped down here. the david remnick article i read in "the new yorker" made me sympathetic for president bush.

she said, "it's a crummy job." mike didn't have the same impression. first, you. on the david remnick piece, read through it and the incoming in so quick and so fast and you never get to be the president you want to be. george w. bush was going to have a restraint in foreign policy and barack obama was going to do all of these different things and, instead, he is talking about nsa and gitmo is still open, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. >> right. >> what did you think when you were reading the piece? and talk about why it's a crummy job. >> i think you run for president and the entire objective is so humanize your candidate to show the kind of person they would be be, how they would transform the office of the presidency. that is our romance novel, right, in american politics? we want to fall in love with our candidate. every single thing about being president is dehumanizing. the scrutiny of the press corps forces all of them into near isolation. the low gistics of the white

house, that place and structure is inflexible. you have to be in the oval office on. all of the appearances of the white house and the presidency take place in very rigid ways. i think that what happens to all of them, particularly the modern presidency as it's carried out under the 24-hour glare of the media, is an incredibly isolating experience. >> it is inhuman. >> we do that. we do humanize the president. >> what i'm still stunned is by you and mckinnon and ari fleischer. not a guy that sort of measures his words against the obama administration, say that things are so much harder for barack obama today than they were for george w. bush in 2004 and 2005 when it was just awful, right? the glare has become -- >> it's a crush. i think that the effect of twitter and facebook and all of

the -- the unendingness of the modern presidency is, to me, going to exact a toll we can't even predict now. >> slightly dissent in the following sense. mitchell obama said the presidency doesn't change who you are or reveal who you are. the last five presidents of the modern era i think all five left office the same people they are. anybody who has known president obama over the years reads that remnick piece you see the same guy who was a state senator. >> but they don't see them acting the way -- i don't mean that it changes them but they don't act the way they knew them. listen, i can only speak from what people saw about george w. bush but he certainly got to the white house believing that he could do in washington what he did in texas where he georged a very close and intimate relationship with bob book. he got to washington and there was zero chance of that. it doesn't change who you want to be, but i think it changes

how you're viewed. >> i guess, mike, it would squeeze out the very characters that made these people so endearing and charming and if not loveable, but just so beloved. because you get in there and you realize that you can't -- like george w. bush. great example. you talk to george w. bush one-on-one, he's like -- i was shocked the first time. he is like the greatest guy in the world! but he gets in front of tv cameras and you can see the further he got along in his presidency, it was like the life had been squeezed out of him because he knew every syllable was going to be examined. and like barack obama. i'm sure great qualities his friends knew growing up that you just don't see in the crush of the daily white house -- >> one of the things that occurs in our media culture today is we fail to appreciate enough the fact if you read remnick's piece

you get the sense of how events can squeeze the nature of what you want your presidency to be right out of it. events do that and they also have a tendency to squeeze the joy out of whatever joy in that job and what joy might be on the service of your personality. once the president of the united states has to stop and pause and consider the fact he sent men and women to their death in battle and that changes you and that is there in this presidency as it was in the bush presidency. >> yesterday, remnick was here, he said maybe self-aware is not the quality we want in our presidents and i'll tell you why. you read about bob gates every night writing letters and breaking down in tears as he is writing letters. that is an extraordinarily -- that is what you want as the spouse or the parent of a

soldier but sometimes -- i think gates said this himself -- you want someone more emotionally disconnected at times if horrible decisions have to be made and that is where the crush of it comes a hard balance. >> i don't want a surgeon going in i may make a mistake and he may die. i want him like smoking a cigarette and listening to zz top and like i can do this, boom. you know what i'm saying? i exaggerate a little bit. but you want somebody that -- has this -- i don't know i don't know what i'm talking about as usual. >> before we get to news here, on this topic, in "the new york times." our current president and his predecessor in the oval office are typically casts as opposites

and not just far apart on a spectrum but cats have a wholly different stripes. barack obama, lir clyrical. but as i read david remnick's widely discussed profile of obama in this week's "new yorker" i was struck by something the two men have in common overlooked overlap that perhaps suggests what it now takes to get to the white house and why we wind up with leaders we do. talking about their talents for separation. their sendsy to retreat a fundamental detachment that seem in one sense antithetical to politics but the frenzy it becomes. >> that is brilliant. what i was trying to stamer through -- >> but no. i don't think it's something they have in common. i think it's something that happens to you. you can't survive.

>> you guys know joe biden, all of you here. it doesn't happen to everybody. >> but you know what? i used to hear about george bush watching baseball and watching "sportscenter" at night and going, do we really need a president that does that? now you hear barack obama does the same thing and he golfs. the answer i think, is yes. >> yeah. >> because with the red hot glare of the media today and with the incoming 24 hours a day online, on radio, on tv, you've got to have somebody that can get away from it. i don't know about you guys, but i got to say 20 years in to being the public figure, announced 20 years ago yesterday, i think. 20 years in, i've gotten to the point on my small, small level, totally dissect. if somebody thinks they will

upset me by something they write online or on twitter or something like that, you got another thing coming. you've got to disconnect and when you're president, you really, really, i would think, have to be able to disconnect. or not listen to the voices. >> if you're going to scale the most ridiculous story written about this president or any president right up top of that scale are any stories or editorials written about vacation time by presidents. >> i think thes two are mature as anybody as letting it roll off their back. >> bush and obama? >> yes. they are not bothered by that stuff and i think it serves them well but they have retreat to espn and get away from stuff. >> people used to talk about reagan's detachment. i always tell my favorite edmond moore story about being going up to see reagan the day the "l.a. times" was filled with the worse

stories about him. he saw reagan and reagan was red-faced reading it enel time he said he was angry. he said have you seen the paper? edmond said, yes, mr. president. reagan stood up and flips it over and says i can't believe the dodgers would even consider selling to murdoch! and he was red-faced. who was the old l.a. dodger family? >> the o'malley's. >> he said i can't believe they would think about selling the dodgers to murdoch family. it's the detachment from the critics. he just doesn't care. >> the article has spawned leave conversations some about race as well and people have been tweeting and talking about it. you realize how still a hot button issue it is which we

won't get to right now. >> made me more sympathetic not only to president obama but anybody who sits in there and also realizing it's a lot easier to comment on ted williams swing and you feel, you know, than -- you know, sometimes you wonder whether all those sports writers in boston criticizing ted williams, not just any president, but any president. temperatures are set to drop in the northeast. get ready again. so is the snow with up to 10 inches expected in philly, washington, and new york city. bill karins is standing by with the latest on this. bill? >> good morning to you guys. already 1,000 flights cancelled today throughout the northeast. under warnings or advisory 80 million people, this storm is going to be a big city special up i-95 and goes from boston down through new york city all the way as far south richmond

and including w. a clear drive right now on i-95. a coating in chicago and st. louis and indianapolis and i-70 snow covered and now snowing in the pittsburgh area and heading for the ooes. here is the timing for you. looks like right around 11:00 a.m. the edge of the snow line is when we should be watching the moderate snow moving in. the worst of the conditions begin about 1:00. this is moderate to heavy snow moving into d.c., philly, new york, boston later. if you want to get your errands or anything done, i know a lot of schools are doing early dismissals because of that timing. as far as the worst time. when do you not want to be on the roads? from 3:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. a very heavy snow band during the evening rush hour on top of the i-95 urban corridor and the worst peak of the storm. overnight end the storm in philly and how much snow are we

talking? widespread 6 to 10 for the big cities. someone has a chance of getting 12 inches. most likely around philadelphia. the heavy snow 2:00 p.m. to about 2:00 a.m. the worst part, i think, is the cleanup wednesday morning. windchills could be as low as negative 20 when everyone is trying to shovel and get ready for a work day. tomorrow at this time. the big city forecast, 6 to 10. biggest snowstorm in d.c. in three years. boston, 6 to 10 for you. out on long island and cape cod. by the way, cape cod does have blizzard warnings you could get up to 14 inches of snow. mika, again, tell everyone. you're safe this morning. getting home probably 2 to 4 inches of snow on the ground and snowing hard. >> no school. that is fantastic for us too. >> yeah, right. >> no, you have school. you will be here. >> listen. you know what? >> pretend you're here. you have to be here. put your jacket on the chair.

>> we are like the iron men of this and show up every single day so we can take one day off, right, mike? >> you're here every day, on time. >> here every day. >> yeah. >> cal ripken. >> many, many days. >> i'm here at least half the time. >> 50% plus one. all right. let's move on. >> in baseball that would get you in the hall of fame. top guy in cooperstown. >> we have got a lot to get to. developments in the chris christie story. first, as income and equality is one of the major political headlines of this new year, there is new data that suggests things continue to get better for the world's 1%. the international group oxfan finds the wealth of the 85 richest people in the world is equal to the collective wealth of the poorest 3.5 billion people on earth. as for the richest 1% they

control 46% of the world's entire wealth and their estimate worth is $110 trillion. the study finds the percentage of wealth hailed by the 1% is increasing at a higher rate in the u.s. than anywhere else in the world. oxfan says it comes from the wealthy elite who have rigged the economic system in their faev favor. the report says a new gallup poll people are satisfied with the wealth in america and 67% are dissatisfied. now 54% of americans are satisfied with their chances of getting ahead through hard work. that is down 16 points from 2007. >> i saw the story. >> it's a great story. >> i wanted to lead with it today. i think this is the issue for our time, much like, you know,

teddy roosevelt back in the turn of the century faced a lot of challenges. mike barnicle, with breaking up trusts. the fact of the matter is we got -- you know, we have got a system that it's not -- you know, it's not just rigged by politicians in washington, d.c. there are huge changes. you know, roosevelt faced after 25, 0 years of the industrial revolution really kicking in full steam ahead in the u.s. in the late 19th century but here you've got an i.t. revolution that allows people to make money so quickly. since 2009, what is the stat? do we have the stat since barack obama became president in the united states? 95% of the economic gains have been made by the richest 1%. i bring that up for one reason and one reason only. this is not about party. it's just not about party. since 1973, middle class workers, since 1973, middle

class workers incomes have been going down. we have got a systemic problem, a generational problem and we got to fix it or this country is not going to look like itself and this world is not going to look like itself 15 years from now. >> the problem you're talking about it's multifaceted and on several different levels. the dissolution of the labor movement in this country certainly has played a huge part in it. also something and your teddy roosevelt reference is not out of place here. when you think about it, when you look at the structure of our economy and when you look at the disparity and nwages and certainly the 1% versus the 99% or whatever, everybody says a lot of people say class war fare. i don't think so. one of the big points going forward that this president and the next president, i think, is going to have to focus on is lack of a better phrase, the development of a corporate

conscience in this country. the huge idea these companies come in and buy smaller companies in small towns and rural areas or wherever, in chicago, in wide urban areas and because of the cost of the purchase of their company, they immediately lay off people to appease their shareholders to get their profits up for shareholders. we have to rethink these things. it makes no sense whatsoever, other than economics sense for the shareholders, to go in and buy a company in a small town of indiana that employs 300 people and region where 300 jobs are critical and say we paid so much for your company, we have to appease our shareholders in wall street so 125 of you people have to go. >> then you look at what doesn't make sense to i guess 95% of americans? that the richest americans, the richest americans are paying 14,

15, 16% tax rates. >> if they are paying them at all. >> while the secretaries are paying twice that much, why we don't have a minimum tax rate of 30% is beyond me. and i say that especially because of all the billionaires and gazillionaires. if you're not getting a paycheck across your desk, chances are good you're figuring how to pay 16%, 17%. that is obscene. it's wrong and americans, 95% of americans think that's wrong. and then the same thing with the aftershore accounts. you know? my feeling if people want to move their people offshore, they need to move offshore with their

money. seriously. if they want to shield their money from taxes and go offshore, you're not welcome in the united states of america. follow your damn money. >> go live with it. >> and go live with it because we don't want you here any more. leave. go. i' i'm telling you. nicole, this isn't just democrats who think this way. every republican group i speak to that's not run by, you know, hedgefund guys. >> billionaires. >> every republican group i talk to agrees with me that the richest american shouldn't be paying 14% to 16% in taxes and that it's wrong. >> you started out in the right place. this isn't a leftist issue any more. this is as prevalent on the right as it is on the left. something happens when they come to washington, the debate get

down to main street versus wall street what you were talking about but it's more implicated than that. i think people are so hungry for people to get a more granular level and understand it's much different than the platituded they hear on a presidential campaign trail and interesting to see if this has any fruit in our next presidential contest. >> i think it will. >> watch mike huckabee. if he runs, this is his thing. >> elizabeth warren? how is it, though, that everyone -- everyone i know, everyone we know, no matter your station in life, you instinctively know that the tax code is filled with tricks to make the rich richer. yet, nothing is ever done about it. >> by anyone in either party. >> people you know aren't hanging out with lobbyists as much. >> i was with an elected

official on stage over the past year, and we were talking about you know, the republican parties, the party for blue collar, this, that, the other. where the party of opportunity, where the opportunity -- margaret thatcher and talking about people people from the middle class to creating jobs and agreeing and hugging each other and i talk about these taxes and we got to stop having the millionaires and billionaires paying 14% tax rates! he's like, wait a second now. hold on. i'm not going to get into carried interest and all of that stuff. i sat there and i go, oh. >> oops. >> never mind. >> so this is how it goes and how it goes is, i guess, the people that get into office and

they get paid, you know, they get contributions, they get contributions and people come in and the smart guys and smart women come in and explain why a billionaire should be paying 14% tax rates when working class americans are paying 28%, 29%. >> how can you just talk about the tax part of this and not talk about paying lower page people more? >> that's a no brainer. >> it's a no brainer, right? >> it's a collective package. you also need to talk about the effects of the i.t. revolution is having. this isn't just about tax policy or just about minimum wage. it's about a collection of things. >> don't you think the minimum wage should be raised? >> i think we should talk about it. >> we should. >> state-by-state. >> in a big way. >> look at costco, by the way. >> the companies do very well sometimes when they pay their employees more than the minimum wage. >> they do. >> i understand phil griffin is considering it and so there are

leach working at msnbc that are excited about that. >> there is no way i'm wrong about this and no way you'd say it. i'm not hearing anything. oh, thank you! >> crickets. >> you agree with me. i'm going to go protest about it and you'll join me, won't you? >> i will not. coming up, bill gates will join us and david miliband on the syria peace talks set to begin and oscar nominated actor barkhad abdi.

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we are looking at the morning papers here. we are looking at "usa today."

at the top. >> yeah. oh, there is that guy who was screaming. >> richard sherman's postgame tirade was so awesome says erin andrews. i don't know. that is so awesome. >> why is that awesome? >> i'm not so sure. >> erin andrews sets a low bar. >> she was funny in the interview. she should have left it there. from the "parade" of papers. appears to be no end to the sight in latest on wrest for ukraine. protesters clashed overnight with police near the parliament building hurdling with rocks and stones. russia says the situation is spoing out of control. a series of protests restricting laws go into effect today. "the washington post" writes about the second straight day, there are concerns about security for the winter olympics in sochi. nbc has learned authorities are

looking up to four black widows who may be plotting attacks. for one woman who may already be there. the 22-year-old's husband was killed by russian forces last year. they say she was an islamic extremist. he was. officials say she may be looking to avenge his death. "the new york times." jamaican bob sled team will make their first olympic appearance since 2002. the two-man team was unsure how they would pay their pay but yesterday both jamaican and olympic and sochi organizing committee say they will cover travel costs. in related news. lo on lo jones will officially join the american bobsled team. jones failed to medal as a hurdler during the 2012 games in london. >> from "the boston globe." laguardia airport in new york city is getting a much-needed 3.6 billion dollar face-lift. >> thank god.

>> it was named -- if i can say this. i think everybody around here will agree. >> yeah. >> nobody has ever deserved something as much as laguardia airport deserves what it was called in 2012. >> yes. >> the worst airport in the nation. that is the more horrific god awful airport ever! >> remember our flight? >> ever! you know i swear to god. you're on the runway and looking at the camera. hey, we got to shut the engine down. hey, listen, we are going to -- we're -- right now, let's see, talker says we're 36 in line to take off. >> i'll be there in about eight hours. >> the best one ever, was i was on a flight and i won't say the airline because i love the airline, but we're on the flight. i've been flying for long enough to know when the plane is not going to take off. >> yeah. >> i said to mika and louis, we are not taking off tonight. why are they boarding us? they board us and we roll out. as we are going on, two seconds away from the gate!

>> shut down. >> swear to god. the pilot goes, well, y'all didn't pick a good night to fly! we knew that! why did you force us on the plane? then we sat on the runway for three and a half hours. >> then they brought us back. >> laguardia is not actually an airport. it's one of this country's largest homeless shelters! >> you go there to sit for a few hours and think. >> it's awful! >> this will be fun to endure. a major upgrade to the central terminal including new restaurants. oh, good! things to do! shopping! >> when your plane doesn't take off! >> 27 million passengers last year traveled through laguardia or sat there for hours. i really don't know. >> it was awful. >> the daily press. a california mom gave birth to. >> ouch! a 15-pound baby boy last week! the baby andrew was born last thursday and is possibly the biggest baby ever born in the

golden state. mika, why are you hunched over? >> 15 pounds? >> infants usually don't reach 15 pounds until they are 6 months old. >> so cute. >> mike allen is here with the morning playbook. mike, what is in the news today? >> what do we got? >> joe, we got some obama alumni news down in florida. charlie crist now a democrat today, he is still a democrat today. the former republican running for governor down there. he has brought in big talent from the obama campaign. jim messina is providing big picture strategic advice to charlie crist as he runs as a democrat down in florida against a very vulnerable republican governor who made ads for president obama and also making ads for crist. this is becoming a big obama operation down there.

while we are talking about the obama family today, also, this morning, sad news. david axelrod's mother passed this morning at newton mass. an amazing woman. muriel axelrod bennett was in the 1940s, a newspaper reporter for the new york city newspaper "p.m." a time when very few reporters and then in 1960s, the madmen era and one of the first vice presidents at young and reubencamp. known to us as mrs. axelrod and a pioneer in journalism and advertising. one of the first people to use focus groups. so thoughts are with david axelrod this morning. >> absolutely. thank you, mike, for that news. >> we appreciate it, mike. >> she lived to 93 so great genes for david. >> our thoughts are with david. >> absolutely. seattle's controversial cornerback apologizes for his postgame rant. why richard sherman regrets

going after after the game. erin andrews, next to him, though, said it was awesome! "morning joe" sports next. brace yourselves people. because this hotel has some amazing.... footwear. and how about the 5 pound barbell at this resort? in to soap? this lodge has some! ...and this hostel has ice cubes! and this hotel has eggs! if you're into it.... we know a place that booking has it. liquid! recreational sand! electric wind! aggressive relaxation! that guy! round things.... tanning apparatus... whatever is going on in here! colorful beverage accessories...

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department otherwise known as the sports department. seahawks cornerback richard sherman has apologized after drawing headlines with a postgame rant following sunday's victory over the 49ers. sherman got into an altercation with wide receiver michael crabtree of the 49ers after the final play of the game. and he was still steaming when sideline reporter erin andrews caught to him moments ago. >> i'm the best cnn in the game. when you try me with a sorry receiver like crabtree that is the results irgoing to get. >> pete carroll took him aside and told him to calm down. aapologize for attacking an individual and taking the attention way from the fantastic game by my teammates. that was not my intent. >> it's actually what he did. >> oh, yeah. >> he stole the show. >> stole the show. after receiving both praise and scorn for his behavior, the cornerback turned to his occasional column to explain his

antics and spoke with espn radio. >> obviously, i could have worded things better and could have obviously had a better reaction and done things differently but it is what it is now. and people's reactions are what they are. >> so what happened is pete carroll sat down with him. the guy he is not a dumbbell, this guy. very smart and articulate guys and he immediate changed his mind and took things in a different context. >> he is pretty fired up and going to the super bowl. >> let me ask everybody here. the extra point in football. keep it or junk it? >> keep it! >> keep it? >> keep it. >> it's been there. >> i hate change. >> you hate change. >> she is a conservative! >> it might be a thing of the past because roger goodell said they could get rid of the point after attempt. the extra point is almost

automatic. >> isn't that the drama of it all? because when it isn't, it's like, oh, my god. isn't that the point? >> but it is almost automatic. >> except when it isn't. >> right. one is a touchdown worth seven points. nah! with the potential for an extra play from scrimmage would yield an eighth point? >> why did this come up and why? >> because they are always tinkering with the game. >> why? >> that's a good question. >> why did this come up? >> probably getting more commercials in, my guess. >> make it work. >> waste of time where you could be showing more ads for beers and cars. >> is that it, barnicle? >> i betcha. >> that could be. >> six points and people want to go for two? >> how many people here are familiar with john tortorella, the former coach of the new york rangers hockey team? >> sure. >> i've known him since he crew up in concord, massachusetts. >> he always got hot water there. >> he is always famous for getting in hot water but that is

over, right? he is out of that business? >> he has calmed down a lot is what you think? >> yeah. >> i think he is in hot water now. >> he is now coaching the vancouver canucks so he's in hot water again as mark pointed out. it followed an incident on saturday where his team was involved in a full line brawl with the calgary flames in the first few seconds of the game. calgary started the game with its fourth line, the stooge line. something torts wasn't happy about. during the first intermission, tortorella attempted to enter the flames locker room! an altercation ensued. for that the league suspend willed him for 15 games! now if you're not familiar with tortorella, this isn't totally surprising. he's had some memorable moments in press conferences and confrontations with reporters in the past. check it out. >> what do do you in the hoff days could help your palmer that struggled in the series? >> i'm not telling you. i'm not tag any questions. we sucked from head-to-toe so i

will not dissect it with you guys. you have to do your job but i'm not answering any questions. i don't know if nbc got together with the referees to turn this into oon ovan overtime game. >> i'll speculate. >> get that through your head? >> i guess pop a waste of time? >> then get the [ bleep ] out of here then! >> okay. see you. >> i like that cut. >> he is leaving vancouver canucks. >> why? >> and becoming chris christie's press secretary! >> wow. what is that? >> he is an angry person. if he doesn't want to talk, that's fine, but he is being a jerk. he is awful. get him out of there. >> he's out of there. >> i think he's misunderstood. i think he is an artist. >> please. no, he is trying to get attention in a deflecting kind of way. if he didn't want any attention,

he would say, i'm sorry, i can't answer any questions. >> i think you like him. >> that is into the must read opinion pages which is coming up next. for a daily behind the scenes look behind the set of "morning joe," visit us on instagram and search "morning joe." we will all be right back. [ male announcer ] pillsbury grands biscuits.

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the was a truly amazing day. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today at angieslist.com ♪ 47 past the hour. joining us for the must read opinion pages is the chairman of the mississippi republican party joe nasiff. we will read a piece about senator coburn stepping down.

republicans are facing the challenge of not only filling his seat but also the ethical void created by his departure and here is the "the wall street journal" editorial at least in part saying this. congress is more unpopular than ever but some members are better than its representation. one of them is tom coburn. his tenure on capitol hill has been notable for his convictions on behalf of limited govert combined with the determination to do more than grandstand. one problem with current conservatives is that too many aim to please the talk radio crowd with crew said they know can't succeed. mr. coburn was a doctor and businessman before he entered politics and now will return to other productive pursuits. conservatives need to replenish their ranks with more tom coburn's who enter politics to do something other than hold power. >> amen. amen. and amen. tom coburn was just a great

conservative. joe, you're going to the rnc's winter meeting. there is going to be a battle out there to take his place. thad cochran down in mississippi also a battle down there and sort of a tug of war for the republican party. it's happening in iowa. front page of "the washington post" this morning. which way is the republican party headed? >> well, the way i hope we're headed is being successful. i mean, i'm a volunteer in this position. i mean, i'm not in here just to have something to do. so what i want to do is win l elections. i know chris christie is having a hard time right now but he is smart and answer the questions without using talking points. i think people appreciate that about tom coburn and think they appreciate that about something like chris christie as well. >> tom is independent. it doesn't matter whether he is

going against barack obama or whether he is going against certain people on talk radio that didn't appreciate him saying, hey, the government shutdown idea, not a good idea and it's going to hurt our party. >> i think we have to be smarter. last time i was on this program, joe, we talked about how the pro life split in this country is about even and we were talking about how conservatives, a lot of times, aren't smart enough to talk about it without talking about things that make 53% of the voters. we have to be smarter on those issues whether it's voter i.d. and immigration. i feel positive about our direction. we just have to do a better job. >> talk about tom coburn. >> i describe myself as a coburn groupie on this show the last time he was on. but something i think that people admire so much is that he's as full threaded of a conservative as we can find in this country and in our party right now.

yet he is not afraid to call out his own party when we do something stupid. i think one of the moments i was most proud to see him speak out was during the government shutdown when we ran into oncoming traffic and made a big mess out of ourselves. how do we take on this perception -- because i think it's happening successfullily or maybe not successfully nationally. to be the party of good. how do we fix that? >> my old boss haley barbour said not to do. i think we got to realize in our policies enacted we have to win l elections. >> i think that sounds dirty to the hard-core activists. i think people say, fine, you want to nominate -- we have a problem with the grassroots of our party. they hear us say that. i say that too. they repel. it repels them. >> the idea is to win elections.

you can't change america and make america more conservative if you don't win elections. i learned that pretty quickly up in washington where after about being called for the third or the fourth or the fifth secret meeting to do this or that, guys, i'm really done charging up the hill and having bill clinton shooting us before we get to the top of it. we got to figure out how to sneak in behind. it's about winning. we have lost five of the last six elections in the popular vote and we are not going to change america or the world for the better if we don't start winning. it's not justify to just fight any more. we got to fight smart and we got to win. >> imto imply to do anything to win. what i was just saying was simple siecivics. you can't get your policy in there unless you're an elected official. one thing i think we have to stop doing is they try to define for themselves what a

conservative is. they picked their one issue during the government shutdown the frustrating thing for me the strategy to understand it was to agree to defund obamacare but agree to everything else. if you didn't believe that, you weren't a true conservative. the problem is the last three years, all i've been hearing is about the everything else party. you know? planned parenthood and military aid to egypt and pork barrel. whatever it was. now unless you agree to that and you're against obamacare you're not a real republican. >> we can't split our party up over tactics. we all agree on the ideology of obamacare. i think we are learning. >> joe, thank you. >> joe, thank you for coming by. have fun at the winter meetings. >> thanks for having me. >> bring us all together. >> good luck! still ahead, california is facing the worst drought in 100

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coming up at the top of the hour, "the washington post" eugene robinson will join us and oscar nominated john ridley. >> victory lap! >> we will be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪

[ male announcer ] this is the story of the little room over the pizza place on chestnut street the modest first floor bedroom in tallinn, estonia and the southbound bus barreling down i-95. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did.

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♪ survival is not about serving death. it's about keeping your head down. >> things going on with my family and my home. now you tell me all is lost?

i don't know who i am. that is the way to survive? well, i don't want to survive. i want to live. >> wow. welcome back to "morning joe." mark halpern and nicole wallace is still with us. joining the table is os ka nominated screen writer. >> look at you! so big! >> john ridley. >> can i tell you in all sincerity and i mean this very sincere sincerely. >> that's why you've said it three times. >> the first time that anyone has used in front of me, around me, that complete phrase and -- >> say it again. say it again. >> oscar nominated screen writer. >> oscar nominated screen writer, man. >> it's something. in any business you work in, you think about positive peer review. what is the most that could possibly happen to you?

what is that one position elected and writing that won and award and it's like a pony. you want a pony for christmas and want to go downstairs but you realize you can't get a pony in the living room. it doesn't happen. >> can i just say also? >> i got a pony in my living room. >> it had to be like christmas eve. you're thinking tomorrow like in christmases in past you were going to get that pony when you did "undercover brother." somebody shot the pony. >> i don't think that. i think the pony was on strike. there was a film i was involved in years ago called three kings and i was involved in that film and people were like you and david are going to get nominated, get nominated. it comes to the point where it becomes less of a wish and more of a burden. >> yeah. >> people say this is going to happen to you. and i remember the day that it didn't happen and there was that moment of not just, okay, it

didn't happen. you really feel down. you feel like somehow you let people down, you did something wrong, you weren't strong enough. now within, i think, the day before the oscars at that point my first son was born. so to really -- not to be too soft, but i'm sorry. i'm a little soft. >> what has happened to you? >> you realize the things you can't control, you can't control. the other things that come into your life, those are the things that are really kind of special. >> okay. it's good until now. >> it's putting things in priority. >> exactly. >> so to have those kinds of rewards that are yours and you keep forever and wonderful. to have something like this that you dream about and suddenly it an arrives at a point you did not expect it and a film, quite frankly, is about solomon and his life and words and his work and people said wonderful things about a screen play but this is a about a man's life, a true story. for me i feel like if i'm doing

any kind of a lap, i'm doing a lap with solomon. be hons. all of the things that go through your moment. >> you have a little jacqueline bisset. >> just keep it down to the two minutes and get off the stage. >> since it's 5:00 into the top of the how are you. >> with you on his award, let's go to washington and pulitzer prize winning eugene robinson. did you cry when you got your pulitzer prize? >> out of body experience. you know?

great pride in the work that you did. it's not just his words. it's what you did with them and how you translated them for an audience today that i thought was spectacular. >> thank you. thank you so much. mark halpern, look pretty good right now. >> gold derby website tweeted a website that handicaps to be pretty accurate that they love from john ridley. every one of their pickers says you're going to win. no pressure.

now time to go negative on some of the others. >> come on, please. >> before midnight? >> come on. >> whatever. >> a good screen play. >> those are the ones that are listed here but all behind you. >> the thing is you meet these writers and you know these writers and you know their strengths. everybody knowing this is a very difficult year and a tough year, competitive year. >> it's competitive. >> thank you, mr. front-runner. >> it's an honor to be nominated. let's get to the news. governor chris christie is set to be sworn in for his second term today. after a wrath of scandals the tone is going to be far different than when he was elected weeks ago. the latest. hoboken mayor has accused new jersey governor of muscle a land deal at the governor's request. dawn zimmer says the state's second highest officers

threatened to cut off sandy funding last may unless she agreed to a new development. lieutenant governor kim guadagno pushed back and said the mayor misrepresented their conversation. >> mayor zimmer's version of our conversation in may of 2013 is not only false, but is illogical and does not withstand excrete knee when all of the facts are examined. standing at union beach, as we are today, with some of the mayors whose towns were devastated by sandy and also being a sandy victim myself makes the mayor's alleges particularly offensive to me. >> when you look at the documents, you look at the

letters that i've written, you can see that it wasn't illogical at all. it was actually a progression leading up to something where they wanted to give a very direct message because they felt like i wasn't getting the message clear enough so she was sent in. after she said to me you have to move ahead with the rockefeller project, i said any other town is being asked to do development in exchange for help with the flooding? and her answer was the storm brings in 12 million dollars. she was the one very clearly was connecting the development with the sandy aid in our conversation. >> the hoboken mayor claims the city has received just a fraction of the money it requested in recovery aid. yesterday, the state's coordinator for sandy relieve announced of the 100 million requested, 70 million in federal funding had gone to hoboken residents and businesses. >> wait. it did go to hoboken but didn't

filter through the government. it went to the people. >> i think the money building the infrastructure i guess, to prevent future flooding. so which hoboken really needs. >> so there was -- so she wrote in this diary that chris christie was brokenhearted, that he was corrupt just like everybody else. >> right. >> and that it brought her to tears. >> and i understand this is her. and chris christie's approval rating was 65% a month before the election. and the man she said is terrible and corrupt. >> the argument would be dich-- >> no, this isn't corrupt. you hug and praise and flatter somebody when they are 65% and they are going to win a landslide. the second they take on water, you start attacking them. i'm sorry. there is no political character

in that. >> so that is a fair argument. the other side of it, which i heard a lot yesterday, given my questioning of her comments is that the governor is very powerful, that they willed their power in a bullying kind of way and that the little mayor of hoboken could never say anything. >> that's just false. >> to the powerful -- >> gene, i'm sorry. you and i have been around washington enough. i can tell you we would go after newt gingrich with glee when he was the man of the year and considered the most powerful person in the world. i'm sorry. if you're hugging somebody when they are 65% and suddenly you're shocked, shocked, stunned, stunned, in the middle of a scandal, it sounds a little too washington for me. >> well, what then is her motive? i don't quite understand that,

because he is still the governor and he still controls those levers of powers. it seems credible to me that a mayor of hoboken who was, say, disillusioned with chris christie and whatever would certainly hug him when he is at 65% because, you would because -- >> do you believe in public service, gene? i'm not talking about you but any mayor who believes in public service. is it not your responsibility when you believe a governor who runs a corrupt, vile political machine that is so corrupt that is makes you weep? isn't your responsibility in october before the election to let the people of your community and your state know? >> they all love chris christie. >> let me tell you. if nicole can tell you -- i wrote a blistering book about george w. bush being a big spender two months before his

re-election in 2004. not when it's -- >> do you it when it's difficult, but it seems to me, though, you could certainly rationalize and say i have to represent the people of hoboken and get the best deal i can for the people of hoboken. if i cross chris christie now, we're really going to get screwed. we are going to get screwed and we are getting screwed now. >> hold on a second. is the accusation of a shake-down in the shopping parking lot, is it accusing the governor's office of something illegal? it is, right? >> enough there that the u.s. attorney brought her in.

>> what if the lieutenant governor offered to sell her drugs which is also illegal? wouldn't you report that? if something illegal happened and you were the mayor of hoboken, you're going to just cow and say he is so powerful i won't say anything? if it's illegal, they should have gone right to the authority. >> and she is running the u.s. attorney now. shawn ridley, why wouldn't you -- don't you have a responsibility to public service to tell the people of new jersey that a governor is so corrupt that you weeped in your diary? >> i really have to ask a question about context before i make a full statement. from catching up to the crises going on here on the east coast, we have so very few of them on the west coast. >> oh, i know. >> there was another mayor that chris christie had wanted that mayor's support. >> yes. >> and it appears that he is not getting that support, that that mayor and his township or city were punished. >> yep. >> it appears that way.

>> right. >> so if i'm another mayor and i'm looking at what could happen to me or my township, would i be as quick to stand up or vocalize my issue? >> if it's illegal, you better be. >> i think -- >> is there not a -- a culture -- again, this is subposition, but i'm just saying as a person coming into it, okay, fine, i'm supposed to do what i'm supposed to do but i have to represent my folks. >> i'm sorry. i know people hate me talking about when i was in congress. so maybe i should talk about when i coached high school football instead. i would not be chumming around and smiling and hugging and praising on twitter somebody that i thought was corrupt, gene. i wouldn't do it and i didn't do it! >> oh, joe you know? politicians hug and sometimes indoors and raise money for other politicians who they can't stand, who they don't care for,

who they think -- that is politics 101. that happens every single day in every state of the union. so that is not terribly unusual. here is my question. what is the lieutenant governor's version of this encounter? there was an encounter. something was said. we have gone -- the mayor dawn zimmer's version of this we have. but we still don't have the lieutenant governor's version of what she said that was so horribly in her words misinterpreted. >> the mayor is not making your latest update is pretty clear. >> let's answer gene's question first. what did the lieutenant governor say yesterday? she denied in broad strokes the account of the mayor but she didn't give a detailed account nor did she take questions from reporters who were there. >> maybe she's in trouble? >> once the facts are out, the story is completely erroneous she said. >> i think as serious as these

allegations are, i think it's a bit of a dissect. what matters still is the initial thing that set all of this off and what happens with those investigations. >> i think you might have that backwards legally. i think the bridge is an embarrassment and as political thuggery. if that is proven, chris christie, it's proven he is lying, he is finished. i think this is a crime. >> what is a federal crime? >> i think a federal crime when you tell somebody you support -- i tell you what, we'll give you -- we will channel federal hurricane money to your city if you support a development project on the water. that is a crime. >> that's right. >> black and white. this -- >> that is a crime. >> it's a crime. this is black and white. if it is found that this happened, lights out. >> lights out. >> she is being crossed up by this network and other to make allegations against a governor at a time when he is in a

political scandal, just stinks to me. >> everybody taking it at face value everything that she says. that is what bothers me. >> in light of the context -- >> hoboken mayor said -- >> is it not a more clear crime to interfere with interstate commerce and transit on this bridge? >> i don't know. >> to me, that is black and white. it's a crime scene and that will be answered. >> if that were a crime and other people within that administration covered up, it's still a crime and a cover-up. again, i want to be very clear. i'm speaking only from the context that i know but i'm just saying if you're comparing apples and apples, that this is a crime and that is a crime and all we are worried about is a kiss on the cheek. >> i think holding up, gene, i think holding up relief aid or in exchange for -- or doling it out in exchange for going along with a big development, i

think -- >> joe, if it's this quid pro quo, the financial benefit for the governor's friends from -- by virtue of this big development on the waterfront that he wants the mayor to go ahead and approve, yes, that's a crime. there are lots of reasons why a governor of new jersey might want a mayor of hoboken to approve a particular development, right? that don't necessarily have to do with the quid pro quo and why i'd like to hear what the lieutenant governor has to say because you could think if you were governor that there is a need for more of this kind of economic development in this part of the state and i'm looking at the big picture. this is a good project. it's should go forward. so it is a question of context and there is a question of what was said. we only have one version of what

was said. it comes with a contemporaneous diary of the event. >> she is accusing the lieutenant governor of a crime and it's really serious if it happened. i guess my question to joe and maybe mark politically because i have gotten a lot of push-back saying she didn't have the power to say anything and you don't know new jersey politics. it gets really dirty and that is why she couldn't say anything. what is the benefit of not saying something when someone commits a crime? >> if somebody made that exchange to me when i was a member of congress on any level, i would laugh at them and i would say i'm going to give you five seconds to take that back and then i'm going to go to the u.s. attorney. >> what is the benefit of being quiet? >> it is so -- >> did she? >> so money kept coming because she kept quiet? >> yeah. that is one theory. look. we don't know what the u.s. attorney is doing. since this probe started the one thing we know they brought this woman in to take her system on a

sunday. that is a tea leaf. we don't know what the u.s. attorney is doing now. >> talked about what is in her diary. all over television i guess -- >> by the way, i want to -- >> she has now made statements -- she has now made statements to federal prosecutors so she has put herself in considerable jeopardy if she is not telling the truth. >> i want to underironically this again. if you're a republican official and somebody makes that offer to you, at least the people i hung out with in washington, d.c., that is so cut and dry. you would laugh at them in their face and that you would either say i'm going to go to the u.s. attorney because what you just did was a shake down and i don't know if you think this is like new jersey politics. i guess we couldn't say that. but it's cut and dry. it begs the question not only why did she hug him and why did she send out positive tweets and interested being next to him in

the press conference smiling and being chris christie's best friend and cheering for him to be reelected when he was at 65%? the bigger question is somebody who actually stood in that position, wouldn't you immediately get back in their face and say, retract that or i'm going to go to the u.s. attorney. let me tell you something right now. i'm getting on the phone right now and i'm going to call your boss and see if this is the type of administration that chris christie really runs. i wouldn't go running off and writing in my diary and i don't mean too many republican officials would and show up three months later weeping when chris christie's political career is going up in flames. give me a break! give me a break. all i'm asking, maybe she is telling the truth. all i'm asking is for somebody out there to actually ask a tough question or two of this lady who has gotten a free ride for days. >> i think her story seems credible. >> maybe it is. >> i just have a lot of

questions. >> i don't understand why she didn't go to a u.s. attorney immediately. >> exactly. i'm not sure. it's going to be very interesting to see how this investigation turns out. >> we will see how much longer she is given a free ride and people start asking questions. why did you tell the new jersey voters this was a corrupt administration? so they could have had that information when they went to vote on re-election. >> i think the bulk of her town -- the bulk of hoboken was for chris christie. was she afraid of them? >> gene, i have to give you the last word. >> gene, why are you crying? >> i'm weeping. i'm writing all of this down in my diary! >> are you going to cry? >> gene, have you the last word. >> scratch my name. >> look. this is all about chris christie ultimately and the big fellow is in trouble, you know? i mean, this -- we are going -- every mayor in new jersey is going to be ask what were your

del dealings with this administration and we are going to hear about it. >> gene robinson, thank you so much. we will look for your column in "the washington post.." >> teardrops all over him! >> congratulations, john! >> thank you, sir, thank you very much. >> john ridley, stay with us. by the way, gene's piece in "the post" is on the west virginia water -- >> oh, my gosh, yes. >> an incredible piece. up next, british foreign secretary david miliband why he says the international community is failing the people of syria. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. let me get this straight... [ female voice ] yes?

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♪ gathering of world powers. looking to put an end to syria's civil war will begin as planned tomorrow after a last-minute controversy put the conference in doubt. the united nations has d

disinvited iran from the talks. iran is one of the main military and financial supporters of the assad regime. the united states and european nations have struggled how to weaken the syria government without getting directly involved in the conflict. a new report details the latest atrocities in the region. senior war crimes prosecutors claim photographers and documents show, quote, clear evidence that about 11,000 detainees have been killed at the hands of syrian government officials and more than 100,000 syrians have been killed since the fighting began nearly three years ago and millions are now take i taki taking refuge in neighboring countries. here with us now is the president of the refuge, dave mm miliband. >> do you agree that war crimes

have been committed by the assad regime? >> i've had doctors say to me their clegs and cousins are targeted at checkpoints for offering treatment to, quote/unquote the wrong people. the notion of delivering syrian aid is under -- >> this report says international lawyers have been executed? >> it's just been publishedout now. a scales with the fact there is brutality in this world haven't been seen for a very long time. just remember for 150 years the notion of a civilian, someone who is protected in a war has been established international law. that has been completely lost in this syrian conflict. you referred to millions of refuge. half of the syrian population

displaced from their homes and millions into neighbors country like jordan which is a country of 5 million people and his 506 refuges now. >> you're speaking about the refugee crisis. you have a minination state of refugees on the prowl in that area of the world. what impact do you think, negative impact could it possibly have on one of the more stable countries in that area, turkey? >> i've talked to kevin and i've visited turkey. turkey is a proud country and they will tell you 200,000 refugees in that country in camps and more that are not and in istanbul now.

it's wrong to talk about turkey as 18 million people and 650,000 refugees. if you're looking for political impact you have to look at lebanon and georgia. lebanon is always a victim of other people's wars. 800,000 refugees and like britain coming to america. that is the scale. i think it's important to say this peace conference, no one believes it's going to bring peace tomorrow. but it can address the conduct of the war. the conduct of the war in terms of the targeting of civilians. the conduct of the war in terms of the starving of people in alepo where they say it's okay to eat cats and dogs. i think very importantly to reach the refugees in the neighbor country and let me say this as well. the idea that this isn't going

to affect us it seems to me to be wrong. one point of agreement between the u.s. and russia and western part of russia is toppling radicalism and the kind of incubations you have gotten inside syria and also trying to deliver refugee help and we are scratching the surface at this stage and the international response has been massively scaled off. >> let's talk about what that should be and what, at best, you think can come out of these talks and i also would like to know given the fact that you have people on the ground there a little bit more beyond the numbers about the scale of brutality and condition for these refugees that you point very directly simmering even more hatred and discontent. >> i've visited the international rescue committee staff in jordan and lebanon and turkey and i've talked to some of the refugees themselves. what you got is kids without education. you've got parents who have lost

loved ones, some husbands who have been killed. you've lost everything at home. totally traumatized. yet when you ask him do you want to go back, they say, yes, i still want to go back to my home. syria is still their home. i wouldn't say they are on the prowl. you said they were on the prowl. they are pleading they are not threatening anyone, they are running away from people. what you see is daily human tragedy of an unspeakable kind. remember, these are relatively middle class people leaving syria. they have all gotten mobile phones so it's a different kind of refugee population. these are relatively middle class people whose lives have been completely shattered that looks like now a war without end because the truth is that neither side feels that they have got any room for compromise. neither the afghan regime feel

they have nothing to compromise for. the daily reality we are dealing with to develop sanitation and protect women from violence and try to deliver education for kids through the whole generation at risk there. i think if you look at the -- it's right to say look at the human story and not just look at the figures but the figures are what make this a potentially toxic crisis. >> david, thank you very much. we appreciate you coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. still ahead this morning, bill gates will be here and why he says the world should look very different in just 20 years. "morning joe" will be right back. [ ashley ] everywhere i go, i'm preparing for the olympics.

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>> all right. all right. it's all right. >> over here. >> we got a problem. we push the ship too hard. we are off the grid. that means the computer is now off line. the ship is broken. >> captain. captain. no one gets hurt. you don't play no game. >> the ship is broken! we had to go -- >> nobody gets hurt. >> hey! >> look at me. >> sure. >> look at me. >> sure. >> i'm the personnel. >> captain phillips is nominated for six academy awards. one for barkhad abdi for best supporting actor. i can't believe this. it was his first acting role and barkhad joins us now.

thomas roberts joins the table as well along with john ridley and joe scarborough. barkhad, your first acting role? >> yes. >> you had to learn to swim? >> yeah, i had to learn how to swim by climbing. >> what were you doing before this movie? >> i was a limo driver. >> what an incredible story! how did this happen? >> i was up in a casting call in minneapolis, that's where i live, in my neighborhood. it came on the tv channel. captain called. so that what i did. >> you just showed up? >> yeah. >> let me ask you. you go from being a limo driver. did you have aspirations to act or perform or something you're asking for people, let me do this on a whim? >> you know, i love acting. i was working on my own stuff at the time on music videos and, you know, everything. but i was in acting. >> yeah.

? >> yeah. i was asked about it at the time. >> did you have any expectation on your first job that you would end up working with probably one of the best working directors right now, paul greenrath? >> yes. >> when you walked in the room, how did that feel and what was that like? were you familiar with his movies at that time? >> i was familiar with his movies but at the time i really not -- he is such a big part and i never actually -- could i do this? you know? but paul, like you mentioned, he is the main reason for my help. he always find a way to motivate me and bring me back to the day. he convinced me to work on day-to-day basis. don't worry about it. >> you did such an amazing job. when we think about the back story, you did not meet tom hanks until you started filming that first scene. so you didn't have any rehearsal time with him.

meanwhile, you're now nominated. you're an oscar nominated actor for best supporting actor. >> everybody around this table has an oscar nomination. >> it's in your future. >> it's in your future? >> but explain what that was like. capturing what it was like to re-create that scene especially with tom hanks, one of the finest actors we have? >> yeah, tom hanks you say one of the fine actors. motivation for me, you know? you know, when paul decided for us not to see him, it was like we have to become the character, you know? talking with my friends and saying we have to become the character. we have to do all we can for this. so we came out. i used a lot of imagination, just became the character.

>> what a fantastic story. captain phillips is in theaters now. also available on dvd, blu-ray and digital download. backhad, congratulations! >> congratulations! how exciting. >> thank you. up next, sure a lot to tell but in california but the state's severe drought has a lot to do with government bureaucracy. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. so what's better, bigger or smaller? [ all ] bigger! now let's say a friend invites you over and they have a really big, really fun pool. and then another friend invites you over who has a much smaller, less fun pool. which pool would you rather go to? does the big pool have piranhas? i believe so. does it have a dinosaur that can turn into a robot and chop the water like a karate ninja? yeah. wait, what? why would it not? [ male announcer ] it's not complicated.

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national news current issue he writes about a severe drought and now a small fish is -- it's a terrific drought right now, isn't it? >> the drought is already that. that's nothing that the government could have done b that's literally a lack of rain. but since 2007 the state has diminished the amount of water that it's willing to pump in the central valley. >> why is that? >> they're trying to protect a very small fish called the delta

smelt. it's caused serious consequences for hispanics and everyone in the central valley, but especially hispanics. there's 50% unemployment in some areas. they're a ghost town, if you will. and if you start to look into this, you realize that this really is the case of environmentalism in government being put above the well-being of people. >> the drought in general, did you guys see the new yorker article about the drought being carried by the -- i mean, it sounds like dust bowl. >> post apocalyptic. >> it's absolutely unbelievable. so, whose push was this in 2007 to avert water away from the central valley? >> this was the national resource defense council, who sued under the endangered species act to protect the fish. their view is that the fish is a species, canary in the coal mine

that says the water system is killing the environment. the population of this fish tends to range 30,000 to 100,000. there are extraneous factors in this. the reason i went out there, these people are screaming for help. whether you take my view of it, which is government hands off or you take the environmentalist's view, they can't plant. they're out of work. you go and meet these people, they've lost everything t looks like the depression. >> so that's what i've read. it's horrific. so what's happening? what's the government doing? what's jerry brown's position? what's the governor's position? at times, you know, he has taken some pragmatic positions. where is he on this issue? >> jerry brown is not too bad on this issue. he has a proposal to build an underwater tunnel system that would bypass the problem. the trouble with that, it's going to take 15 years to build.

at the moment the endangered species act, which is federal law, trumps anything he can do anyway. president obama suddenly discovered that he's a federalist on this question. it doesn't really make much sense, given that this is an issue of federal law. >> can congress do anything to help people in central california? >> sure. congress could, for example, exempt the delta smelt from the endangered species act or a gob squad, executive branch of executive people who can determine that human interests in this case are more important than that of the fish. >> is this an either/or question? if the people of the central valley -- if all these people are enduring terrible suffering in central california, if they are given more water, more water is sent their way, not diverted away from them, does that mean the extinction of this delta smelt? >> i don't think anyone is sure.

that's one of the problems. >> it's possible? >> it's possible. this is based on a biological opinion that is hotly contested. there are a range of options. normally you'll hear me come in on your show and say this is what we should do and this is ridiculo ridiculous. i'm not coming in and saying that to you. having this level of uncertainty for farmers and their employees and a region that produces a significant amount of ago agriculture is not a good idea. >> what are the state representatives that represent this area, state senators, what are they saying about it? what are barbara boxer, dianne feinstein saying about it? >> two reasons we're not hearing a lot about it. one, the central valley is not particularly popular. it produce an incredible amount of food. but it has about 10% of california's population. many of which are poor hispanic. that political clout is limited. secondly, dianne feinstein is

not willing to address this head on because the endangered species act is an article of faith on the left. republicans in congress have tried over and over and over again to pass bills to re. late the smelt by open fish farms and turn the pumps back on, so on and so forth. you have a divided government in washington, a california governor who can't jump in and nothing happens. >> what decisions have to be made going forward? >> the state of california could build a system that bypasses the problem. >> but that takes 15 years. >> what could happen in the short term? >> in the short term, i think the most likely solution is that there's some sort of compromise and more water is pumped than currently is being pumped and not as much as the farmers would like. i think that's all you're going to get. >> if we lose this fish, what happens? how -- no one wants to lose any animal, but is it a real

ecological disaster if we lose this fish? >> again, that is unknown. one of the problems here is that on its own, the fish is actually -- as far as any animal, it's pretty useless. it's not eaten. it's not a vital part of the food chain. you can tell, to an extent, it's not seriously important because they've introduced a natural predator. but the left claims it is an indicator species that shows that the whole area is suffering. now this, again, is a matter of scientific dispute. i would challenge anybody to go to places like mendoza and huron in the central valley and look at the eyes of the people who are standing in food lines every day and tell them that their well-being is less important than this fish and nothing should happen. >> remarkable story. charles, thank you very much for coming and talking about it. hopefully, more people will pay attention to it. also a companion piece from a

completely different ideological viewpoint, the cover of "new yorker" this week talks about another fact of this horrific drought out in california. you read it? >> yeah. >> same issues? >> it's fascinating. thank you very much. the burden of the oval office. nicolle wallace will explain why the presidency is the worst job in america and why george w. bush and barack obama have a lot more in common than you might think. "morning joe" will be right back. (vo) you are a business pro. seeker of the sublime. you can separate runway ridiculousness... from fashion that flies off the shelves. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. (natalie) ooooh, i like your style. (vo) so do we, business pro. so do we. go national. go like a pro.

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of the dusty basement at 1406 35th street the old dining table at 25th and hoffman. ...and the little room above the strip mall off roble avenue. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪

good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 am on the west coast. take a live look at new york city. back with us, we have mike barnicle, and nicolle wallace. >> nicole, david remick article that i read in "the new yorker" made me sympathetic to president obama. >> sure, yeah. >> and she said it's a crumby job. and then mike, you said -- first you. you read through it and you see the incoming is so fast and so quick and you never get to be the president you want to be. george w. bush was going to have a restrained foreign policy and barack obama was going to do all these different things. instead, he's talking about nsa and gitmo, why gitmo is still open, et cetera, et cetera. what do you think when you're

reading the piece? >> well, i think you -- >> and tell us why it's a crumby job. >> you run for president and the entire objective is to humanize the candidate, how they would transform the presidency. that's our romance novel. we want to fall in love with our candidate. every single thing about being president is dehumanizing, the scrutiny of the press corps forces all of them into near isolation, the logistics of the white house. that place, that structure is completely inflexible. you have to be in the oval office. all of the appearances of the white house or the presidency take place in very rigid ways. so, i think that what happens to all the -- particularly the modern presidency, as it's carried out under the 24-hour glare of the media is an incredibly isolating experience. >> yesterday when he was here, he said maybe being self aware is not the quality we want the most in our presidents.

and i'll tell you why. you read about bob gates every night writing letters and breaking down in tears as he's writing letters. that is an extraordinary -- that's what you want as a -- as the spouse or the parent of a soldier. but sometimes -- and i think gates even said this himself, you want somebody a bit more emotionally disconnected at times if horrible decisions have to be made. that's where the crush of it comes. >> it's a hard balance. >> i don't want anybody to misunderstand me. it's like a surgeon. i don't want a surgeon going in, when i'm on the operating table and going, oh, my god, i may make a mistake and he may die. i want him smoking a cigarette, listening to zz topp and like, i can do this. you know what i'm saying? i exaggerate a little bit. but you want somebody that's --

has this -- i don't know what i'm talking about. as usual. >> before we get to news here, on this topic, in "the new york times," the obama/bush nexus. our current president and his predecessor in the oval office are typically cast as opposites, antonyms. not just far apart on an ideological spectrum. george bush, allergic to any glimmer of intellectualism. obama, head. bush, gut. obama, city. bush, country. as i read david remnick's widely discussed profile in "the new yorker" i was struck by something that the two men have in common and overlooked what it now takes to get to the white house and why we wind up with leaders we do. i'm talking about their talents for separation, their tendency to retreat. a fundamental detachment that

seem in one sense empathetical to politics but may be survival of the frenzy to come. >> i don't think it's something they have in common. i think it's something that happens to you. you can't survive. it happens to everybody, right? >> you know joe biden, all of you here. it doesn't happen to everybody. >> but, you know what? i used to hear about george bush watching baseball and watching sports center at night and roll my eyes going, boy, do we really need a president that does that? now you hear barack obama does the same thing. and he golfs. the answer, i think, is yes. >> yeah. >> because with a red hot glare of the media today and with the incoming 24 hours a day online, on radio, on tv, you have to have somebody that can get away

from it. i don't know about you guys, but i've got to say 20 years in, to be the public figure -- he announced 20 years ago yesterday, i think. 20 years in, i've gotten to the point on my small, small level totally disconnected. somebody thinks they're going to upset me by writing something online or twitter, something like that, you've got another thing coming. you've got to disconnect. and when you're president, you really, really, i would think, have to be able to disconnect. not listen to the voices. >> that's why if you're going to scale the most ridiculous stories written about this president or any president, right up top of that scale, any stories or editorials written about vacation time by a president. >> those two guys are mature emotionally as anybody i've ever met. >> bush and obama? >> yeah. they're really mature emotionally. they're just not bother bid that

stuff and it serves them well. >> people used to talk about reagan's detachment. and i always tell my favorite edwin morris story, going up to see reagan on the l.a. times filled with the worst story. you saw reagan, who was red faced saying it was the only time he was ever angry, adding, did you see the paper? and he said, yes, mr. president. and reagan stood up and flips it over and goes to the bottom and says, i can't believe the dodgers would even consider selling to murdoch! and he was red faced because of it. who was the old l.a. dodger family? i can't think of it. >> o'malleys. >> and morris said at that point, oh, my god, that's the genius of ronald reagan, that detachment from the critics. he just doesn't care.

you know, it's an internal compass that he follows. >> the article certainly has spun a lot of conversations, some about race as well. people have been tweeting and talking about it. you realize how still a hot button issue it is. >> certainly may de me a lot mo sympathetic. not only for president obama, but anybody that sits in there and also realizes that it's a lot easier to comment on ted williams swing than -- you know, sometimes you wonder if all those sports writers in boston criticizing ted williams -- temperatures are set to drop in the northeast. get ready again. and so is the snow, with up to 10 inches expected in firlly, washington and new york city. bill karins is standing by with the latest on this. bill?

>> good morning to you, mika. let's call these pictures of before. the after will come in 24 hours. we're waiting for the first snowflakes there. phil did did he hava, you could be the jackpot winner or loser, depending how you look at it. we're starting to see the first few snowflakes at 30 rock. as far as the warnings go, we have warnings from richmond up into areas near boston, blizzard warnings out on cape cod. we have 84 million people on some sort of winter weather headlines affected by this storm in the next 24 hours. here is the radar. you can see we're just about over with it as our dry period. you can see how this streams here into new york city first. that may be a sign that some of the snow totals may be higher to the north. d.c., you're at 37 degrees. initially that will melt on the pavement. that will begin to accumulate. we have moderate snow from

hagerstown to harrisburg. that will shift over i-95 by 4:00, 5:00 this afternoon. couple of inches on the ground as you try to drive home. as far as the snowfall forecast, six to ten, large area includes washington, d.c., all of i-95. notice northern new england does not get into the heavy snow on this one, nor central pennsylvania. the farther south you go, lesser amounts, richmond to norfolk. the other story will be really cold air behind this. all of these locations will be shoveling minus 20, up to minus 20 windchills come wednesday morning. be safe getting to work or school this morning. the way home will be a very different story. mika and joe, back to you. >> what? >> you will be here. don't leave your jacket on the chair and pretend your here. you have to be here. >> barnicle and i show up every single day. we're like the iron men of this place. >> really? >> so we can take one day off.

>> really? you're here every day? >> every day. right? >> maybe you need to rethink that. >> many, many days. >> i'm here at least half the tim time. >> 50% plus one. we've got a lot to get to. developments in the chris christie story. first this, as income and equality becomes one of the major political headlines of this new year, there is new data that suggests things continue to get better for the world's 1%. the international group finds the wealth of the 85 richest people in the world, 85, is equal to the collective wealth of the poorest 3.5 billion people on earth. as for the richest 1%, they control 46% of the world's entire wealth. their estimated worth is $110 trillion. the study also finds that the

percentage of wealth held by the 1% is increasing at a higher rate here in the u.s. than anywhere else in the world. the disparity comes from a, quote, power grab from the wealthy elite, who have rigged the economic system in their favor. the report goes on to say the fight against poverty will not be solved until income levels have been leveled. meanwhile, a new gallup poll finds just 30% of people are satisfied with the distribution of wealth, 67% are dissatisfied and 54% of americans are satisfied with their chances of getting ahead through hard work. that is down 16 points from 2007. >> i saw this story and wanted -- >> great story. >> wanted to lead with it today. i really think this is the issue for our time, much like teddy roosevelt back in the turn of the century face aid lot of challenges.

mike barnicle, with breaking up trusts. the fact of the matter is that we've got a system that it's not -- you know, it's not just rigged by politicians in washington, d.c. there are huge changes. and, you know, roosevelt faced after 25, 30 years of the industrial revolution, really kicking in full steam ahead in the u.s. in the late 19th century. but here you've got an i.t. revolution that allows people to make money so quickly. and since 2009, what's the stat? do we have the stat since barack obama became president of the united states? 95% of economic gains have been made by the richest 1%. i bring that up for one reason and one reason only. >> uh-huh. >> this is not about party. it's just not about party. since 1973, middle class workers -- since 1973, middle class workers incomes have been going down. we've got a systemic problem, a

generational problem and we've got to fix it, or this country is not going to look like itself and this world is not going to look like itself 15 years from now. >> the problem that you're talking about -- it's multi-faceted. it's on several different levels. the disillusion of the labor movement in this country has played a huge part in it. teddy roosevelt reference is not out of place here. when you think about it, when you look at the structure of our economy and you look at the disparity in wages and certainly the 1% versus the 99% or whatever, it's not really -- everybody says a lot of people say class war fare. i don't think so. one, big points going forward that this president and the next president, i think, is going to have to focus on and articulate is for lack of a better phrase the development of a corporate conscience in this country. the idea that these huge companies come in and buy smaller companies in small

towns, in rural areas or wherever. in chicago and wide urban areas. and because of the cost of the purchase of the company, they immediately layoff people to appease their shareholders to get their profits up for shareholders. we have to rethink these things. it makes no sense whatsoever, other than economic sense for the shareholders, to go in and buy a company in a small town in indiana that employs 300 people, in a region where those 300 jobs are critical. and say we paid so much for your company weerk have to appease our shareholders in wall street so 125 of you people have to go. >> and then you look at what doesn't make sense to 95% of americans, the richest americans -- the richest americans are paying 14, 15, 16% tax rates while --

>> they could be paying it all. >> while their secretaries are paying twice that much. why we don't have a minimum tax rate of 30% is beyond me. i say that especially because of all the billionaires and gazillionaires. i guarantee you're paying 14%, 15% in america if you're a billionaire. it's just the case. if you're not getting a paycheck across your desk, and you're making millions and millions, chances are good you're figuring out how to pay, you know, 16%, 17%. that's obscene. it's wrong. and americans, 95% of americans think that's wrong. and then the same thing with offshore accounts. my feeling is if people want to move their money offshore, they need to move offshore with their money. seriously. if they want to shield their money from taxes and go

offshore, you're not welcome in the united states of america. i wanted to say it so bad. follow your damn money. >> go live with it. >> because we don't want you hear anymore. leave! >> coming up on "morning joe," we'll ask bill gates about the stunning numbers on wealth and equality. charlie crist is running as a democrat and embracing the president's top campaign strategist to try to get back in the governor's mansion. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪ ♪ stacy's mom has got it goin' on ♪

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that's setting a little bar. morning papers here, we're looking at "usa today." and at the top -- >> oh, yeah. there's that guy who was screaming. >> richard sherman's postgame tirade was so awesome, says aaron andrews. >> why? >> i don't know. >> why is that awesome? >> i'm not sure. >> andrews sets a low bar, is all i have to say. >> looked funny in the interview. should have left it there. that was professional. >> so awesome. from the parade of papers, "the washington post," for the second night in a row in the ukraine, there were violent protests. clashed with police near the parliament building hurling

fireworks and stones. tear gas and stun grenades. situation is spinning out of control, series of protests restricting laws go into effect today. >> "the washington post" also writes for the second straight day there's concern about the winter olympics in sochi. authorities are searching for up to, quote, four black widows who may be plotting attacks. posters have been displayed around sochi for one woman who may already be there. she says he was ani islamic extremist and officials say she may be looking to anchor his death. >> jamaican bobsled team will be heading to sochi. their first olympic appearance since 2002. they were unsure how they would pay their way, but yesterday olympic committees said they will travel costs.

lolo jones will officially join the american bobsled team. jones failed to medal as a hurdler during the 2012 games in london. from the boston globe, laguardia airport in new york city will get a much-needed $3.6 billion facelift. >> oh, great. >> thank god. it was named -- if i can say this, i think everybody will agree. nobody has ever deserved something as much as laguardia airport deserves what it was called in 2012. >> yep. >> in 2012? >> the worst airport in the nation. that is the most horrific, god-awful airport ever. >> remember our flight? >> ever. you know, i swear to god, you're on the runway every time, hey, we have to shut the engines down. hey, listen, we're -- right now, the tower says we're 36. >> we'll be there in about eight hours. >> mike, the best one ever was -- i was on a flight -- i

won't say the airline because i love the airline. we're on the flight. i've been flying long enough to know when the plane is not going to take off. and i said to mika and lewis, we're not taking off tonight. why are they boarding us? they board us. and then we roll out. and as we're going out, two seconds away from the gate -- >> shut down. >> swear to god, the pilot goes, well, you all didn't pick a good night to fly. we knew that right before we boarded the plane and then sat on the runway for 3 1/2 hours. >> then they brought us back. >> laguardia is not actually an airport. it's one of this country's largest homeless shelters. >> you can go there and sleep for a few hours. >> it's awful! >> yeah. this will be fun to endure. a major upgrade to the airport's central terminal, including new restaurants. oh, things to do. shopping.

127 million passengers travel through laguardia, or sat there for hours. i really don't know. the victor bill daily press, california mom gave birth to -- >> oh! >> ouch! a 15-pound baby boy last week. the baby, andrew, was born last thursday and is possibly the biggest baby ever born in the golden state. mika, why are you hunched over? >> 15 pounds? >> they don't usually weigh 15 pounds until they're six months old. >> so cute, though. did you see that baby? mike allen is here with the political playbook. what's in the news today? >> what have we got? >> joe has some obama alumni news. down in florida, charlie crist, now a democrat. at least today he's still a democrat. former republican running for governor down there. he is bringing in some big talent from the obama campaign, the obama campaign manager will

be providing big picture strategic advice to charlie crist as he runs as a democrat down in florida against a very vulnerable republican governor, jim margoulis who made ads for president obama, now making ads for crist. this has become a big obama operation down there. and also this morning, we have sad news. david axelrod's mother passed this morning. an amazing woman. muriel axelrod bennett, in the 1940s was a reporter for the new york city paper, and in the 1960s, the mad men area, was one of the first vice presidents. and was known professionally to us as mrs. axelrod and was a real pioneer in both journalism and advertising. one of the first people to use focus groups. so, thoughts are with david

axelrod this morning. >> absolutely. politico's mike allen. thank you. what's driving today's market? cnbc's brian sullivan joins us for business before the bell. plus bill gates is standing by in the green room with bold predictions in the fight against poverty. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ verizon innovators are creating air and soil sensor networks that help use water wisely, so american farms can keep growing for generations to come. because the world's biggest challenges deserve even bigger solutions. powerful answers. verizon. there was a boy who traveled to a faraway place where villages floated on water

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nearly half a million dollars worth of walnuts were stolen. the thieves came to the processing plant in the middle of the might to pull off the largest walnut heist yet. >> wild story. welcome back to "morning joe." a shortage of nuts, creating a giant opportunity for thieves. we'll get to that story in a moment. first, joining us now, broin sullivan, to talk about what's moving the markets. what's on your radar? >> reports say jp morgan chase is stopping work on an ipo of a chinese company, which wanted to do an international stock listing in part because of the probe into potential bribery allegations for jp morgan chase. remember, they have been under investigation for allegedly hiring sort of high placed politicians, kids in the hopes of winning business. jp morgan dropping another china

ipo there. windows 7, does anybody remember that? hp does. windows 8 hardly been a blockbuster. so hewlett packard is now offering windows 7. in other words, they're going back to the previous operating system, thomas, on new computers. it's been seven straight quarter of drop in demand. we have a better chance, perhaps, of selling them if windows 7 is on the machine rather than windows 8, which has famously confused a number of people because it has a totally different look. a little bit back to the future. another story, authorities have been working hard to crack the case on the nut story. >> very funny. walnut thefts because of the shortage. explain the backstory here. people aren't thinking about what goes into a walnut heist. >> it sounds kind of funny, nutty, perhaps, if you will, thomas. i'll say this.

the story you guys did earlier about the drought and the delta smelt, the fish and the fight over water? >> right. >> that has increased the value of the nut crop, because the crop itself has gone down. california produces more pistachios and almonds than any other nation on the planet. and thieves, i guess, are shoo'ing drugs and saying i guess there's more money in nuts. you heard that package saying they just backed the truck up, cut a fence, illegal driver's license, phony registration. it's a serious problem. it's a major crop for the state of california. i mean, it really just goes to show that when something goes up in value so much, somebody's going to put their eye on it. and, you know -- >> it becomes a hot commodity. >> when you say nut heist in a story, you kind of chuckle. the reality is that you guys talk about the plight of the workers, that their economy has suffered enough. the last thing you need now is a series of robberies to make it

even harder on the farmers who are struggling, by the way, with a drought and a fight, apparently, over a fish. i've never seen a delta smelt, by the way. >> i'm not going to say what i'm thinking. i'm going to leave it alone. brian sullivan. great to see you, buddy. one very special wake-up call in space. did you hear about this? >> broke into cheers yesterday as the rosetta satellite came back up. it's been sleeping for nearly three years. it then tweeted out, hello, world. it did so in numerous languages. it is expected to orbit a comet this summer. bill gates will join the table here at "morning joe" and talk about the letter that is out from the bill and melinda gates foundation.

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at liberty mutual, we believe with every setback there's a chance to come back and rise. liberty mutual insurance. auto, home, life. are these safeguards perfect? of course not. the president is trying to earn back the trust of the american people by demonstrating a seriousness of purpose. so, how do we remove these reforms forward? >> i'm open to working with congress to ensure we build a broad consensus for how to move forward. >> so, we're never doing this. you're going to do this after we get a broad consensus in congress? with how to move forward? that sounds great. perhaps we'll get some

well-reasoned postgame analysis from richard sherman. how about that? ooh. >> 38 past the hour. here with us now, co-chair of the bill and melinda gates' foundation and co-founder of microsoft, bill gates. in this year's gates annual letter, bill and melinda gates break three myths that block progress for the poor. welcome back to the show. >> hear you're a seahawks fan. >> fan fask, yeah. my friend, paul, very excited. >> my daughter can't wait. >> are you going to head to the super bowl? >> sure. >> there you go. let's talk about myths, the top three myths. what's number one? >> well, the first is that poor countries stay poor. there's a sense that they've been poor and maybe they're always going to be that way. whereas, in fact, when i was born overwhelmingly most coun y

countries were poor. now most countries are middle income. if we focus on what's worked well in the next 20 years, we'll be down to very, very few. >> so what's worked well in your lifetime? >> aid programs, open markets, china, mexico, brazil all were adrian sipients and now are self sufficient. if you can get countries so their economy gross enough, their own tax revenues can take care of things and then you can focus on the ones that are left and use the same type of programs. >> so myth number two, foreign aid is a big waste. >> that's right. melinda and i have decided to put our money into the same kind of things that foreign aid goes against. it's ironic that there's a lot of cynicism. the headlines about the 2% that goes wasted makes people not recognize the 98% and --

>> so what's been achieved ? we've all read how foreign aid hurts the people that you're sending the foreign aid to and there will be a 12-page description on how horrific it is. what works in foreign aid programs and what doesn't work? >> one of the most effective things is help. back in 1990, 13% of all kids died before the age of 5. now that's down to 5%. and that's mostly foreign aid, funding new vaccines, getting those vaccines out there, helping with those delivery systems. and if if the we keep it up, we'll get that down to match where our country was in 1980. >> speak to, if you will, something we were talking about off camera, the staffs on

foreign aid. the percentage of our budget. most people -- i would have said 8%, 10%. most people say 25% of our budget, but -- >> it's less than 1%. and of our economy is .2%. those are the dollars of all the government dollars, lift people up for less money than any part of the budget. so the idea that this less than 1% is going to humanitarian type reasons around the world, it's a good news story that's not known. we've gotten so much smarter about making sure that aid has impact. >> is it true also that a lot of people, someone like me they look at aid and they see it as money being thrown at a country? but a lot of it is in durable goods, security, things like that? it's not just giving money to people so that they can roll around on it in bed? it tends to be things that could

used only for one way. it is used but it's not thrown away. >> vaccines are a great example. they're purchased with government aid, sent to another country and you monitor the delivery system. maybe 1% or 2% go astray. you're saving lives. also cultural aid tends to be very many packetful to help farmers grow food. there's been a lot that's been learned. analytical thinkers, people coming from the business sector are looking into this these things and have made it a much better field for your money. >> myth number three, saving lives leads to overpopulation. haven't heard that one as much. >> it's kind of common sense. i believed that until i got involved in our foundation work. if you say you're going to have more kids, a million kids here aren't dying of malaria, won't

you be increasing the population by a million per year? the reason that's not true is a bit surprising, which is that parents choose voluntarily to have less kids when their kids are surviving. and so it more than offsets it. every place in the world that's healthy has low population growth. the places in the world that are very unhealthy, where kids have died is where you have big population growth. you're laying the seeds for educating and populate by increasing health. >> where would you rank delivery systems in terms of it being the biggest degree of difficulty, delivery systems for vaccines, for food, for clean water? >> that's often the final issue.

you get this magic vaccine, and how do you get it out there? some countries have done a good job of building those systems. ethiopia didn't have one ten years ago and have a pretty good one now. nigeria is very bad and our foundation is involved in the different parts of nigeria, trying to improve that. data systems, hiring and training people. and governments often aren't good at that. so outside donors can help to get going. once it gets going, it can sustain itself. >> outside donors, you talked about this before. you are really having an impact not just helping with foreign aid and helping governments choose more wisely, but education reform and some of the myths you brought up there. one of them -- every time i hear a politician now talking about we have to substantially reduce class size. the foundation spent a lot of money. didn't you find out that wasn't

the big driver of performance? >> i'm not saying we want 50 kids to every teacher, but there are a lot of these findings that -- things for foreign aid but education here at home that you guys are really uncovering for governments. >> yeah. the big surprise is how much variability there is in the quality of the teaching. so, a very good teacher, teaching 30 kids, is far better than an average teacher teaching 20 kids. so the investment is how do we help these teachers be better? how do we take the way that they make the subject interesting, they draw the kids in, they help the kids that are behind. there's a group of teachers who are phenomenal and we need to transfer those practices, involves observing teachers, getting the feedback and that just isn't being done enough yet. we're just starting to have a good system. >> i want to ask you about the

report that we discussed earlier by oxfam. first, just curious, what do you think about the minimum wage? should it be raised? and should we want to see models more like costco, where companies pay their employees a lot more than minimum wage? >> well, jobs are a great thing. you have to be a bit careful that if you raise minimum wage, you're encouraging labor substitution, that you're going to go buy machines and automate things or cause jobs to appear outside of that jurisdiction. so within certain limits, you know, it does cause job destruction. if you really start pushing it, then you're just making a huge tradeoff. you have to say which of the households that end up benefiting? is it much more the teenager in a wealthy household or is it that household in poverty? a lot of the problem there is

that those people don't have many hours. it's not the actual wage level. >> like fast food workers. >> yeah. fast food workers. >> those households are in poverty. >> 80% in nonpoverty households. there is about 11% of those that are from the poverty households. but, you know, anyways these are complex issues. >> they are. >> it's not as simple as just saying, okay, raise the minimum wage and all of a sudden -- >> you talked about something else. you had businesses reinvesting. i talked to a guy who owns like 35 restaurants nationwide. i'm constantly asking him, how is this working? how is your company doing? i was talking about the affordable care act. i don't want to get into that debate but he said now one of the biggest problem is that i, and my entire company, is trying to figure out how to get by with less employees versus cost overrun that would stop me from

building a new restaurant. we'll dough bait that later. let's talk about oxfam report on the wealth gap. what are some of the things that are causing the rich to get richer, the poor to get poorer? they say 85 people in the world have as much wealth as 3.5 billion of the poorest people. companies needless workers. what do we do, moving forward over the next 20 years? >> income equality is an important issue. the poor are not getting poorer. that's just absolutely, completely and totally wrong. you know, if you take a country like china, which has a third of the world's poor people, they reduce their poverty rate from 60% down to 10%. and their economic growth has been much, much faster than the rich countries.

if you get the middle income countries, the poor in the world -- this has been a great 25 years for them. now you do have some big fortunes like the one that i'm lucky enough to have temporarily. >> right. >> that is going back overwhelmingly to help the poorest in the world, to create new vaccines. >> right. >> so the children don't die, to create better seeds so kids have better nutrition. and -- >> you're doing that, obviously. warren buffett is doing that. there's a lot that aren't. the question is, though, because you're looking at long-term trends, what do we do -- for instance, here is a staff tht te always bring up. 1973, average income for middle class americans has gone down. we're becoming so much more productive we don't need the same sort of industries we had in post-war america. any thoughts on what we do?

>> well, the root for reasonable income is to invest in people's skills. and that means various forms of education. it means improving inner city education, community colleges. that's where the u.s. is way behind other countries. we don't have an education system that's working for our lower income people. we have a lot of single-parent households. these are more structural type problems. median income is up. goods and services that you can buy are up. we shouldn't get this picture that everything is going wrong. yes, we should reduce inequality, but there are things that have been going well, lick in the cases where you have charter schools and you see those kids come out. they go to four-year colleges. they do move up in the income level. and it's not a zero sum game. it's not okay, here is this pie and we take from here and get to

here. if you educate people, you're growing the pie. >> bill gates, i wish we had 18 hours to talk to you. later today, can you click on the arch mojo section of our website for more with bill gates, including his bold prediction that there will be no poor countries left in the world by 2035. tweet us your questions by tweeting us the #mojoe. ok at it. so indulgent. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups. [prof. burke] at farmers,we make you smarter t. [bell rings] about your insurance,because what you don't know can hurt you. what if you didn't know that home insurance can keep your stuff covered,even when it's not at home? or that collisions with wildlife on the road may not be covered. and what if you didn't know that you could be liable for any accidents on your property?

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it's inaugurationnew jersey as chris christie tries to put the focus on the four years ahead of him. mississippi governor haley barbour. has president obama's hope for change been