mark herring, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you for inviting me. >> chris hayes is up next. witnesses for the prosecution? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews out in san francisco. let me open tonight with the latest clattering in chris christie's world. if you're the governor, you should and probably do have two women on your mind. one is your lieutenant governor kim guadagno, who must be on the verge of freaking out tonight now that hoboken mayor dawn zimmer is lining up witnesses for the prosecution. people who she told at the time about guadagno's message from the governor himself, that he chris christie wanted that real estate deal done or hoboken wouldn't get the hurricane

money. we saw how guadagno stood up and read that statement the other day. but how is the sergeant schultz i know nothing number going to help when she has to sit down with federal investigators? if i were the governor, i would be reconsidering my ties to ms. guadagno. if she breaks, will he have to cut her loose too? second woman, bridget kelly. the governor has already called her a liar and stupid. based on the fact she just hired a big-time lawyer, who do think she'll be backing under close questioning, she and her family or the governor who called her a liar? if is it illegal to hold up a money to gain advantage, where does that put the governor? and where does it put ms. kelly if it's illegal to hold up the bridge traffic in a vendetta? and this leaves the governor wondering who he fears most. well, steve kornacki is the host of "up" and steve, you're on top of this case from the

beginning." let me ask you about this big development. it looks like a in temporary corroborating evidence is building that most people and perhaps the courts and the investigators should probably believe mayor zimmer that she did in fact get a warning. she heard a warning after a meeting with the lieutenant governor about not getting any help for hurricane relief and future relief unless she went along with the real estate deal. >> yeah, well, again. as i said in the last few days, when we aired the interview with her last saturday, it was clear that she understood that this was an interview that was going to attract attention from the u.s. attorney's office. this was going to attract attention from the authorities. she wanted it to attract their attention. this is a woman who is very confident in the story she is telling. she is very confident in the authenticity of the diary entries that she shared with us, of the other documents she shared with us. i think she is very confident there are people who will back her up on this. again, in one way it's a matter for the u.s. attorney's office to deal with right now.

the question is will there be further statements from kim guadagno, further attempts to sort of clarify, because she seemed to acknowledge the other day that there was some conversation between her and dawn zimmer. will there be a further attempt to explain what that conversation was, or will the governor's office, kim guadagno will content to let this rest right now in the hands of the attorney. that has been the hope of chris christie's allies. if you talk to them in new jersey, their hope has been this becomes less public, this becomes less about the legislative committees that are looking into it now, the super committee that is looking into it, and this becomes a matter that goes into the u.s. attorney's office where at least publicly it will be a lot more, it will quiet down a bit. >> as i mentioned, witnesses are coming forward, corroborating mayor zimmer's side. the story msnbc news voting today that, quote, two zimmer aides are among five witnesses who zimmer told the fbi that can confirm what she previously told them about the conversation she said she had with lieutenant governor kim guadagno last may. one of the witnesses has gone public now.

sheer more from that story. david mello, a member of the hoboken city council told nbc news that zimmer told him about the guadagno conversation last summer, either in late july or early august as they were walking home after an event. quote, i distinctly remember zimmer saying if the lieutenant governor said if this came out, she would deny it. well, she has denied it, of course. as any good lawyer will tell you, establishing your star witness's testimony and showing she has given prior consistent statements is a critical part of any prosecution. let me go to jonathan capehart on this. in terms of the politics of this, this whole argument from christie, true or false, is getting harder to believe. is everybody a liar but him? >> yeah, you're right. i think what we're seeing here is sort of three rings of hell for camp christie. first you had the allegation from mayor zimmer. then you had her go on steve's show and show the material evidence being her diaries that this happened, her contemporaneous notes of what happened in her conversations with people from the christie

administration. and now today we're finding you've got the corroborators. you have people independent of mayor zimmer coming forward and saying she talked to me at that time about what happened. and so, you know, the ring, for lack of a better analogy, the noose is getting tighter around the governor and his inner circle, making it more and more less believable that the governor himself didn't have any clue about what happened on the george washington bridge. >> let me go back to the second big story here with steve kornacki. the other big story today, bridget kelly, of course. the christie deputy chief of staff who gave the order to block the bridge traffic is swapping lawyers from a christie ally to a hard-charging defense attorney. she has hired michael critchley when he broke a string of corruption convictions, replacing kelly's old council walter timpone who stepped aside citing conflict.

he was a christie appointee. steve, how do you read this? she is upgrading and going to the mattresses here with a really big-time lawyer who knows how to beat a civil abuse case in new jersey. she knows local. and she knows what might work local. and she is no longer trusting somebody who has associations, as she has had, with christie. >> there is two interesting things. if you talk to people in trenton about this, they find it to be a very curious development. the first back of context to keep in mind is about a week ago, the "new york times" ran a story where they talked to a few of bridget kelly's friends who made it clear seemingly on her behalf that she was mortified that she had caused political trouble for chris christie, that it signals she did not want to cause him further trouble that was sort of the upshot of that "new york times" article. and that coincided with the word that walter timpone was going to be defending her. flash forward to a week later

and walter timpone was saying i'm out. what makes that so curious to people in trenton, the conflict he is citing, the fact that he is part of the elections enforcement commission, in a way that was an obvious conflict from the beginning. if you're a lawyer and asked by bridget kelly to defend her, that conflict is going to be in your head right away. so why is he suddenly citing that conflict now? and then yes, you look at his ties to christie world. this is a guy that is intimately connected to chris christie's world. and she is switching to michael critchley, as you say, one of the top criminal defense lawyers in the state. he has gone head to head with the federal prosecutors before. it makes you think back to "the new york times" article and think gee, maybe in the last week, bridget kelly has changed her thinking. is she no longer concerned about chris christie's image and reputation and maybe a little more worried about her own immediate future. >> let's get to the question of legality here. i think that's an issue here. i want john to pick up on this.

we're all looking at sort of the cave in plato's republic. we're trying to figure out what is the law here. is there a law that applies to shutting down traffic on a bridge if it's part of a political vendetta? is there a law denying federal funds or state funds in the case of hoboken, the mayor there, in denying that she accused the lieutenant governor that you're not going to get the money unless you go along with this real estate deal that i'm favoring, if that's the case. but is there a law being broken here? and if there is, the two mayor and of course the former deputy chief of staff and maybe even the lieutenant governor who have to worry, you don't want to be incriminated if you're just carrying water for the boss here. so what do you do? is there a law here that we know could have been broken? >> you know, chris, i don't know the answer to that in terms of the legality of the two examples that you cited, the closing down of the lanes and sort of the quid pro quo from the lieutenant governor to mayor zimmer in heb ken asking for her support of that project in exchange for sandy aid.

i think most people can understand that ethically and morally, there is really -- the christie administration is going to have a hard time here arguing that what was done was ethical or was even moral. now, we know politics. we know that all the time there is, you know, give and take, whether it's articulated or not. that's part of the game. you support me, i support you. but when it comes to things like this that directly impact people's lives, and not just people's lives, people who are suffering. people sat in traffic for four hours, more than four hours for four straight days on the george washington bridge. and then the people in hoboken who were under water for days because of a natural disaster. the idea that someone would play politics with people's lives like that, that gets to the ethical and moral question facing the christie administration. >> okay. let's take a look at the lieutenant governor's statement the other day.

i have to tell you, it struck me watching these statements all my life and wondering about this person and how they were prepared for this, how they prepared themselves for this and the nervousness of the occasion. and what seems to be a lack of confidence in the wording. here is kim guadagno, of course new jersey's lieutenant governor, denying mayor zimmer's charges earlier this week. let's listen to this and see if we as viewers believe it. >> mayor zimmer's version of our conversation in may of 2013 is not only false, but is illogical and does not withstand scrutiny when all of the facts are examined. any suggestion, any suggestion that sandy funds were tied to the approval of any project in new jersey is completely false. being a sandy victim myself makes the mayor's allegations particularly offensive to me.

>> i don't know what to make of that except i'm not impressed by it, steve. it reads to me like a carefully written, probably legally constructed defense that may be safe, but i'm not sure it's authoritative. your view. >> she seemed to be acknowledging that there was a conversation. so mayor zimmer's version of the conversation is that the lieutenant governor in that conversation explicitly linked this development project with sandy aid. now, if guadagno was to tell a fuller version here, you know, i don't know what that would be. but it potentially would lead her into sort of messy directions for herself and for the administration. if, let's say there is some gray area between the two versions here, as is often the case in politics, if there is some gray area in between, and the administration was pushing for the rockefeller project, but wasn't explicitly linking it to sandy aid, to come out and tell that story, you would still then be saying that yes, as an

administration, we were putting pressure on the mayor of hoboken on behalf of a project that the chairman of the port authority, the chris christie chairman of the port authority that his law firm was representing, that he in his capacity as head of that law firm was seeking to get meetings with the city officials in hoboken to try to move that project along and to try to talk than project. so it gets to even get into this further, beyond that statement that she made, even without saying, yeah, we explicitly linked sandy aid and a redevelopment project, it puts you in a messy place potentially. >> i was particularly impressed by mayor zimmer. she has been on your program. she broke the story with you on saturday. i have to tell you, there is a confidence she exudes, as you pointed out, a confidence in her story, an ability to tell it different ways, an ability to tell it in her own words. nbc news is reporting that the u.s. attorney's office in newark has served subpoenas to governor chris christie's campaign committee now and the new jersey state republican party.

they're seeking documents, the investigators are, on the george washington bridge closures according to two lawyers for those political organization. you know, jonathan, we're going to be talk about in the next segment about how people on the side of christie who are simply partisans, fair enough, that's what partisans do, are basically saying this is a media hype. it's a liberal hype, it's a democratic hype. and yet the creeping evidence that the legal proceedings are moving ahead, that witnesses are being interviewed, evidence being taken, subpoenas have been issued as we just said there to the political organizations, and most importantly, as wisniewski, the state assemblyman said the other day, this isn't about counting on people giving up their fifth amendment rights. this is about counting on the documentation trail that they have always left in e-mails including gmail and aol and private accounts, where it's too late for them to hide. your thoughts. >> yeah. this is -- what comes to mind is now that the u.s. attorney is deeply involved in this, this is really serious.

this is no longer a joking matter or a laughing matter as the governor tried to slough off the conversation in late fall. now people's careers are on the line. but also, their lives are on the line. they can no longer joke around or play around or shade the truth now that the federal government is involved. and as you say, people are under oath. but you've got these -- you've got these e-mail communications, maybe text messages where as we saw, with dramatic effect, bridget anne kelly's "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee", if there is another super clear, definitive e-mail, text message, whatever you want to call it that emerges from the blizzard of subpoenas that have come out, it's going to be very, very difficult for all involved to get out from under this. >> thank you, guys, so much. steve kornacki and jonathan capehart tonight. coming up, the toll of george washington bridge and its

scandal is taking on chris christie politically. his favorability among new jersey democrats, for example, has dropped from about 50%, 45% down to 19%. that certainly dents the argument, don't you think, that christie is the man, the republican that can win democratic votes. plus, think this is going to help the republican party's troubles with women? mike huckabee says democrats favor support for birth control because they want women to believe they can't control their libidos. that was his word, without the help of uncle sugar. by that he means the united states government. and hillary clinton's about to get a huge boost from the people who helped defeat her in 2008 to reelect president obama in 2012. the liberal superpac priorities usa has formally joined the fight on hillary's behalf. and let me finish tonight with why this huckabee remark could be the stopper to a republican sweep. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

we may be heading toward

another showdown over the debt ceiling. the treasury secretary jack lew told house secretary john bain they're the debt ceiling needs to be raised by late february. boehner's office responded by saying republicans would demand something in return, because in their words, a clean debt ceiling increase simply won't pass the house. what remains to be seen is why republicans, who have recovered in the poll since last year's shutdown and now have some political wind at their backs would want another unpopular and unnecessary government shutdown? we'll be right back. female announcer: it's time to make room

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welcome back to "hardball." there is more evidence of how the scandal is leaving chris christie hobbled politically. a new rutgers university eagle on the institute shows popularity has taken a serious hit. 46% now view him favorably, but that's way down from a few months ago when two-thirds of the voters of new jersey viewed the governor favorably. significantly, christie has taken the biggest hit among democrats of the state. just months ago he was touting

the fact that a third of democrats voted for his reelection. his popularity with republicans nationally had a lot to do with his image as the republican with cross-party appeal who might give democrats a 2016 run for their money. well, that argument is quickly disappearing. and given the months, if not years of investigations the governor now faces, it's unlikely to change any time soon. mark halperin is a msnbc political analyst. eugene robinson is a political analyst and columnist for "the washington post." let's start with mark on this. you've done a lot of what you call biographic effort on this, because he was a player. knowing him, knowing his political character, how is he dealing with the fact he now faces potential witnesses against him if this thing goes to trial like the mayor who seems to be a pretty impressive witness from hoboken, or perhaps bridget kelly who he has called a liar and stupid.

people have a incentive to be self-interested come trial time. >> this is a off to time. his numbers are still decent by the standards of a lot of governors around the country. but this is going to go on for a very long time. he has to get back to trying to govern the state. the difficulty is it's hard to know what is going on inside that inner circle. what you talked about the former deputy chief of staff changing lawyers, we don't know how much coordination there is in the christie camp right now. what we do know is a lot of people are going to be put under oath by both the committee and by the u.s. attorney. and has got to be nervousness of governor christie and with his team that somebody is going to tell a different story on at least one of these two different controversies. >> so he has to be successful with every witness practically. and the other side simply has to find one creditable witness to say he knew about the bridge closing. he heard a conversation about it. he was in the room. or he did say -- he was playing kind of tough when the issue of backing that rockefeller project in hoboken.

>> he's got political peril, chris, but he's a also got the legal peril. one may end up costing him more than the other. we may never see indictments in this case. this may be just a very careful u.s. attorney trying to look at things. the committee may never suggest criminality, the special investigative committee. but the political damage from even one e-mail or one person telling a slightly different story could be hugely consequential for governor christie, certainly as a national candidate, maybe even as governor of new jersey. he's got to try to get back to work, though. that's his only hope of trying to turn the numbers around. he is now in a horrible cycle. bad news coverage, lower poll numbers, bad news coverage, legal investigation leaks. it's a very bad cycle for him. his only hope out of this i think is trying to do his job. >> let's talk about his political job. gene, you watched watergate like i did. it seemed like the nixon counter-offensive wasn't so bad for a while. your paper felt some heat obviously and there was a concern you might have overdone it.

i know bradley was quoted in the movie in the book. maybe the whiz kids were a little too fast for their own good. but it turns out the pr counter-offensive was useless in the face of testimony and documents. >> yeah, it was useless. and there were some really perilous moments during watergate. i don't think you can really compare this situation to that one. but here is what is going to happen. i mean, everybody's lawyering up. and when they go and sit down with prosecutors, they're going to all tell self-interested stories. they're all going to face potential jeopardy of making false statements under oath, and they're not going to want to go to jail for that. so a picture is going to emerge of what working life at least is like inside the christie administration. warts and all. and it will be interesting to see what that looks like. and one has a feeling, given all the swagger that we've seen and the e-mails we've seen to this point that it's maybe not such a pretty picture.

>> let's take a look at some of this. and i don't knock this. partisanship is part of our lives in washington. we love it in a way. this is what is going on here. the governor's allies, as christie's allies have called ate witch-hunt. this week haley barbour blamed the liberal media elite. let's watch haley barbour. >> he can be an outstanding and will be in my opinion an outstanding governor in new jersey. and frankly, when the liberal media elite chase him around like this there are some republicans it helps him with and make them get energized to help elect more republican governors like christie who can run for reelection on his record rather than having to do like obama who ran for reelection on what is wrong with mitt romney. >> well, meanwhile, rudy giuliani said the democrats lead the investigation in new jersey were just playing politics. here is rudy giuliani. let's watch. >> the person conducting the investigation has now announced

a conclusion of the investigation that he believes the governor is not telling the truth. he should not be handling this investigation. it gives it no sense of credibility, and it clearly is a partisan witch-hunt. clearly, this is a very, very well orchestrated democratic kind of organizational effort to try to hurt governor christie. who after all was the only republican -- was the only republican who was beating hillary clinton in any poll at any time. >> let me go to mark halperin. i don't know if you're writing your third book or not. i aim assume you'll be so lucky you will be. it seems like you have to be writing a two-front war for christie now. he has to be getting up every night at midnight and look at what is moving. he has to worry about it in his self-interests. meanwhile, he has to talk to smarter money people around the country and the smarter consultants about putting together the beginnings of a presidential campaign. he do both? >> the early indications are they're with him unless there is something that comes out.

but he is no longer what i think he was just a couple of months ago, which is the de facto front-runner, the person in recent history has always been the republican nominee. they think is off the table for the foreseeable future. the good news for him is there is nobody out there now who is going to pull away from him. >> that's true. >> there is not a person talked about as a republican candidate who has a huge operation lining up donors. as long as jeb bush isn't in this race, most of the big money will wait for chris christie and see how this turns out. so he is all right on that front. to me, the bigger problem is just as you suggested also is what is in the papers? what is in these investigations. there is some serious legal firepower on chris christie's side now. but just think about the first set of documents. those were redacted documents, redacted by the person who turned them over. those were released with lots of interesting things in it. they're going now after his campaign and the republican party of new jersey. you think those people in those two entities carefully wrote e-mails thinking what if my e-mail showed up on nbc news or msnbc or the front page of the "new york times"?

there is going to be lots of e-mails. even if they don't lead to indictments, even if they don't cause political damage directly to chris christie, i think there are going to be lots of communications that are going to be very, very tough for him to deal with. >> if you can't -- don't say it, grunt it. now it's going to be don't e-mail it, don't say it, grunt it. because when you might not get convicted. thank you, mark halperin and you eugene robinson. it's been a big week for the far right fringe. we'll catch up with some of the crazy things they've said. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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and this week these wacko birds are flying kamikaze. first up, rocker ted nugent who has concocted a depiction of president obama so vitriolic and immodest, it makes you question the mind-set of a person who can spew filth like this so handily. quote, i have obviously failed to galvanize and prod if not shame enough americans to be ever vigilant not to le let a chicago communist-raised, communist educated, communist subhuman mongrel like the a.c.o.r.n. barack hussein obama to weasel his way into the top office of the country. what can you say about a guy that can spew that filth so easily? freedom of speech comes at the expense of his own dignity. it might not coffer the next wingnut on our list. joshua black running for state assembly in florida. he has so much contempt for the presidency that he has publicly advocated a solution for president obama that is so far

beyond the pale, it could be a felony. on tuesday, this guy, black, saw the following tweet. quote, i'm past impeachment. it's time to arrest and hang him high. well, then this guy black then retweeted that frightening line and added, "agreed." that call for action of execution by a sitting president by hanging was so serious it earned black a visit from the secret service. it is the crime to threaten the life of a president. finally, a congressional president is demagoguing an lgbt committee in illinois says gay are to blame from everything like tornadoes to diseases like dementia. suzanne atanus is running in the ninth district, and she is as serious as she is delusional. here is what she had to say in a recent debate. quote, god is angry. we're provoking him with abortions and same-sex marriage and civil unions. same-sex activity is going to

increase aids. if it's in our military, it will weaken our military. we need to respect god. let's hope that that outspoken crackpot like those stay where they belong, out of elective office and on the periphery of society's outer fringe. coming up, there is one more bizarre comment by a republican. this one deserves its own segment. former governor mike huckabee of arkansas on birth control and what he calls women's out of control libido. where do they come up with this stuff? stay away from this, republicans. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

hey there, everyone, three people are confirmed dead and 30 missing after a fire tore through a seniors complex in quebec. authority says some of the residents were in ill health and had limited mobility. virginia's attorney general says the state's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional, and he won't defend it.

and at least two people are dead in a massive pileup on i-94 in eastern indiana. the death toll could rise now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." well, you can credit mike huckabee with reviving talk of a republican war on women, even as he was trying, i guess, to argue it doesn't even exist. at the republican national committee's winter meeting in washington today, the one-time presidential candidate said that republicans don't have a war on women. as he says, democrats argue that. but republicans have a war for women, the governor says. and here is his evidence. >> if the democrats want to insult the women of america by making them believe that they are helpless without uncle sugar coming in and providing for them a prescription each month for birth control because they cannot control their libido or

their reproductive system without the help of the government, then so be it. let us take that discussion all across america because women are far more than the democrats have played them to be, and women across america need to stand up and say enough of that nonsense. >> well, to be honest, i have no idea what he is talking about. joining me right now is former rnc chair michael steele and joan walsh. both are msnbc political analysts. my guess is he is trying to make two points awkwardly. one, everyone is dependent on the government including young women or women who are sexually active. and two, women can't control their sexual libido, as he calls it. that's his word. i'm going to leave that one to him. and because they can't control it, they need the government to help them out. but he threw in that word. the government is going to give you a prescription for birth control. you don't get your birth control from the government. is he questioning whether there should be such a prescription? what is he actually saying here that is relevant to the thinking american?

your thoughts, joan. >> you know, chris, he is saying that women shouldn't have sex unless they're directed to by their husbands, essentially. and i'm sitting here, and i'm so torn about this. because as a woman i sit here and say shut up, mike huckabee. please stop talking about our libidos. please stop talking about our sex lives, and please afford us some privacy and human dignity. but as a democrat, again, i'm torn. i want to say please keep talk, mike huckabee, because you are making sure there will be not a single woman who votes republican in the next cycle. your wives will not vote for you. what are you talking about, and why with all the issues that exist in the world for men and women, but for women, why do you keep coming back to this one relatively small issue? why are you obsessed with our libidos? >> maybe michael can help me, because he has consorted with these people. >> poor michael. >> michael, you go into your medicine cabinet and you're a woman, and you open up the medicine cabinet in the bathroom with all the illuminated light or whatever you call it.

and you look in and there is this little guy from arkansas, and he is talking to you about your prescription. and you go how did you get in my medicine cabinet? what are you doing in her bedroom and doing even in her medicine cabinet, michael steele? >> that scenario is not what i took away from anything the governor said today. i think what the governor was doing was using a form of hyperbole. yes, it's a little awkward and probably could have been phrased better. but i think he was probably trying to make the point that the party needs to fight this idea that we're in this war against women, and that it's in fact the democrats who have sort of manufactured this war and that we need to come to the table prepared to make sound arguments to women about why they -- >> what is a sound argument, michael? >> well, i didn't hear the rest of the speech. you didn't play the rest of the speech. he goes on and talks what the party stands for. >> let's show the whole thing. we'll show a good portion and you'll get the full context. let's take a look at it right now, huckabee's point.

>> i think it's time that republicans no longer accept listening to the democrats talk about a war on women. because the fact is the republicans don't have a war on women, they have a war for women, for them to be empowered to be something other than victims of their gender. women i know are outraged that the democrats think that women are nothing more than helpless and hopeless creatures whose only goal in life is to have the government provide for them birth control medication. and if the democrats want to insult the women of america by making them believe that they are helpless without uncle sugar coming in and providing for them a prescription each month for birth control because they cannot control their libido or their reproductive system without the help of the government, then so be it. let us take that discussion all across america because women are far more than the democrats have played them to be, and women across america need to stand up

and say enough of that nonsense. >> okay. what was his point, michael? >> well, his point is that the argument is bigger than what the democrats break it down to. when you're talking about health care, you know, the sandra fluke episode, all this stuff sort of centers around contraception, abortion. >> no it doesn't. >> let me finish my point. >> okay. >> he is making the broader point that as a party, we need to talk beyond that. we need to talk about -- he is talking about empowering women through entrepreneurialism, through their family, through their businesses, in different ways than just having this conversation that the democrats like to have quite honestly about contraception. that's the point he was making. he was using hyperbole to make that point. >> yeah, michael, the problem is that he raised the issue of women's libido. >> right. >> that's not exact entrepreneurialism. >> you're right. he used the term. maybe he shouldn't have used that particular term to make the point about how he wanted to make the argument about the government and the role the democrats see the government

playing. i give you that. but, you know, i do take away the broader argument that he is trying to make that going into this election cycle, we need to be talking about something other than what the democrats want us to talk about. >> but why, then, michael, to grant your point, why is he the one who immediately brings up the question of contraception and the question of our libidos and not being able to control our libidos? that -- he did that. i didn't do that. no interviewer did that. nobody forced him to do that. that is the exact that he chose personally to lead off this speech about the war for women. why? >> i would agree with you on that. again, that was the awkwardness of using that as an example, number one. number two, i don't think that -- at least my take away was he wasn't saying that's what his view was, that was the party's view that women can't control their libidos. he is saying that the way the democrats approach the argument is to treat women as if they can't. and therefore this is the solution to that problem. and he is saying that there is

much more to that than just this conversation around contraception. well need to have a conversation about more important things than that. >> why does he want to talk about our libidos in the first place? >> he wasn't talking about your libidos. he was just using i as an example. >> he brought it up turkey, make the argument. that's what you want to talk. >> i don't want to talk about it. i would love to talk about minimum wage. i would love to talk about pay equity. i would love to talk about government helping out with child care. i would love to talk about a million different things that we don't get to talk about because every time republicans say they're going to change the subject, they can't change it. it's the very definition of looking at us as sex objects, michael. >> we don't. the democrats are the one who talked about this war on women that wasn't republicans talking about some war on women and getting into contraception and all of that. we didn't rally around and lift up sandra fluke as some icon of contraception in america that wasn't us. >> she was rallied around because she was insulted. >> the democrats used her as a

sledgehammer, and all he is saying we're not going to fall for that anymore. there are bigger and more important arguments that women want us to have about the economy, about jobs, their families, communities, raising kids, educating the kids than talking about the pill or their libidos. >> sandra fluke became a hero -- >> sandra fluke is no hero, come on. >> she became a hero -- >> spare me. >> because she was vilified by rush limbaugh who called her a prostitute, who called her a prostitute. >> you're my favorite guests on this program. this has been an exciting conversation. i do believe mr. chairman, we will never again hear the phrase women's libido in republican prince. thank you, michael steele, and joan, you're fabulous. >> joan, good to see you. >> good to see you. up next, the biggest liberal superpac in the country is now betting the farm on hillary rodham clinton to be our next president. this is a major development. we're putting it in at the end of the show, but wait until you hear this one. it's ahead on hard "hardball," the place for politics.

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which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. mike huckabee's comments about women and their libidos aside, the republicans are looking to a woman to deliver their official response to president obama's state of the union next tuesday. u.s. congresswoman cathy mcmorris rodgers of washington state will give the response as the chair of the house republican conference, she is the highest ranking republican woman. mike lee of utah who was ted cruz's wingman during last year's government shutdown will be responding on behalf of the tea party.

we'll be right back.

the group will be led by president obama's former campaign manager, jim messina. and jennifer granholm is at the helped president obama prior to u.s. action has decided to throw its weight early behind hillary clinton. it will be led by the campaign manager jim messina, much respected and michigan governor jen jennifer granholm, a port hole for wealthy supporters eager to help the legionses in her circle. a reporter from the new york times, michelle is with the nation. nicholas on the news here, it seems to me, that this is the sort of thing that normally would only happen when you are a president running for re-election and you keep the same team. here it looks like if team is moving on in a way the reagan team, for example, did not go on and support george, bush,

senior. they are going on as if this is the natural succession. >> you are looking at the obama political segregation in joining in with the post-obama-clinton focus party. it's happening here, you see his key people, moving over, taking important roles in the pro-clinton rules setting up shops in her presumed candidacy. >> let me go to michelle. it seems to me, there is a reason for this sort of thing, even though somebody will say, don't get too much out of it. it fits the other day with david remnick of the "new yorker" no more i'm a transformational president. i'm equal with them. we're in the same party, rear in

the same faction. >> that's right yeah, clearly this is kind of an apoint ining. this is the best that whatever their rivalry, they are a part of the same institution. i think it's not great for the democratic party to have these sorts of apoint inings. i mean, even though it's too early to say this is a done deal. we could have said the same thing in 2006. the idea that she's just going to be kind of chosen by the money mockers in the party. by the institutional powers in the party, this, one result of this analysis is that anyone who was even thinking of hillary, of challenging hillary clinton in the primaries is going to think twice. >> yeah, but the other way, you just opened up an opportunity. i thought michelle had the opportunities of a lifetime or elizabeth warren or somebody on the left the populous left to say, hey, this isn't the way we do business, whose turn is it?

who's got the money? >> look, there is always a profound discomfort. if hillary clinton run, it will be i think the fifth or sixth or seventh consecutive election where a clinton or a bush was on the ticket of one of the two major parties. it's kind of amazing when you think about it. >> you think republicans don't like that? republicans don't like that? >> i think it's not very american, then, of course, its call comes down to the candidate, i think a lot of grass roots support for hillary clinton as well as support, obviously, for the big donors and fund raisers. >> isn't it true, michelle, a lot of working democrats from the appalachian, southwestern pennsylvania and that part of the country, who have been put off a bit by what they consider sort of differentness of obama. they say, hey, wait, hillary is like the girl next door.

they see her that way. >> there is no doubt, hillary clinton is popular, i think she's the most popular politician in the united states. the thing is you all find it a restive, progressive base that is not going to want to have somebodykind kind of voice it on them, that will want a credible challenger even if she ends up being the nominee, in order for them to reconcile themselves to the process. >> michelle, thank you so much. we'll be right back after this. i bought a car, over and tells you, and you're like. a good deal or not. looking at truecar.com. there's no buyer's remorse.

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>> let me finish tonight with this, history tells me this november could see a republican sweep. taking a wide view, i could see the right wing in candidates sweep the victory in many republican primaries. then the republicans manage a double digit pick-up of seats in the u.s. senate. then i hear what mike huckabee had to say and i ignore too much american politic, already more women voters than male voters. given that, what is it in the republican dna that makes them talk as if they've never tked with women? why do they speak as if they are the party of cave dwellers that come out of their has been that's to grunt something so pro magnum as this. >> the democrats want to insult the women of america by making them believe that they are

helpless without uncle sugar providing birth control because they cannot control their libido or reproductive system without the help of the government. so be it. let us take that discussion across america, because women are far more than the democrats play them to be. women need to stand up and say enough of that nonsense. >> let's translate that for the modern millennium, female humans shouldn't want help. to want such a benefit is to admit you are, a, sexually unstoppable and you need uncle sugar to keep you stocked with birth control pills. didn't mike get the memo? didn't he learn from the rape raptors to get too up close and personal on the boy front when some out of it republican talk bs about the birds and the bees, they risk sounding like mccain was christh kritenning whacko bird. before this november and how

things turn out for the republican, it might be good to presume women are the ones listening. that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from york, i'm chris hayes. in the past 24 hours we have learned federal authorities on two different fronts have ratcheted up their inquiry into the administration of governor chris christie for new jersey. legal stakes climbing ever higher the explosive charges for mayor don zimmer, she was approached by two separate christie officials saying that sandy money would not flow to hoboken unless she expedited a private development. development for a developer who had hired the law firm of christie's court appointed adviser david samson, the latest reports turning zimmer's accusations into a more than he