a new smartphone depending on the smartphone you trade in on america's largest, most reliable 4g lte network. that's powerful. verizon. now get a free lg g2, with a 13-megapixel camera. good afternoon, disrupters, i'm karen finney. a state of the union address, a look at how athletes handle him pick security concerns and fighting words from someone looking ahead to 2016. >> president obama says 2014 must be a year of action. >> we've made tremendous progress but there's much more work to do. >> the state of this union is -- >> struggling. >> the key word the white house is trying to put out there is "opportunity." >> all he did was save the economy, all he did was save the auto industry. >> one of the workplace laws and rules that i think are good is that bosses shouldn't prey on young interns in their office. i think really the media seems

to have given president clinton a pass on this. >> is it something hillary clinton should be judged on if she were a candidate in 2016? >> i'm not saying that, this is with regard to the clintons, sometimes it's hard to separate one from the other. >> warnings about security in sochi. >> if we do not support our team and show up, i think the terrorists are winning. >> for me as an athlete, i would always choose to go. >> can you reassure our athletes going to sochi that they're going to be safe? >> i cannot give them a 100% guarantee. first up, two days from now, president obama will deliver his fifth state of the union address. and the forecast? well, in the hope of kicking off a year of action, we're predicting optimism with a little defiance likely to be met with yet another dose of obstruction. the president won't just be waiting by the phone for

congress. here's how senior adviser dan fifer describes this year's theme. >> the president will save the country. he's not going to wait. >> he will look in every way he can with his pen and his phone. he has a pen and a phone. he'll use those. the president uses the power of his presidency in two areas, his pen which is presidential orders and pick up the phone and bring in american citizens businesses. this is supposed to be a year of action. >> that pen and phone are already inflaming republican opposition. >> when the executive branch tries to assume the legislative powers, that's a form of tyranny, so yeah, there are times when we lose our checks and balances, when government grows and when government's not obeying the rule of law, that is a form of tyranny. >> joining me now reed wilson, gov beat blogger for "the washington post" and political blogger of the grio.

so perry, i'll start with you, because it strikes me that the president st trying to strike a bit of a balance. on one hand i want to work with congress, we got to come together, but then he's trying to say, if you don't, i'm going to -- you know, i've got my pen and i've got my phone. and i wonder if we can make a drinking game of that, about how many times we're going to hear about the pen and the phone between now and tuesday night? >> a lot. i think what you're seeing is their tragedy is both, they got bogged down in a lot of fights with congress they couldn't win, particularly like gun control where they kind of knew congress wouldn't do anything, then congress didn't do anything and blocked the gun control bill and it became a big story in washington. he'll talk about the minimum wage, the voting rights act, where you need congress' approval, immigration another big issue, but he'll also talk about things like trying to reduce the number of longtime unemployed where they bring in various business leaders where they ask them, what are your ideas to get rid of longtime

unemployed people hired. it will be more like how can we come together, how can obama from the white house just encourage businesses to behave differently. that's the kind of idea where you use your phone. >> all right. here's the thing, though, there's going to be this sort of talk of things that we can try to do together, but we know that we are headed for a showdown in just about a month or so. i'm going to play a little sound from senator mitch mcconnell this morning. and that, of course, would be the debt ceiling. >> we ought to attach something significant for the country to his request to increase the debt ceiling. i think he's the one being irresponsible by saying, oh, just raise the debt ceiling. we're not going to do anything about the debt or anything else that's important to the country. >> so here we go, reed. >> yeah, once again we're headed down the path towards a possible debt ceiling showdown. i actually think this is a good thing for republicans politically. the front page story of "the washington post" today by my

colleague scott wilson talked about a lot of what perry just said. every time during this administration that the white house has had to involve itself with congress, whether that's the stimulus bill or the health care bill or just the debt ceiling fight from a couple of years ago in the summer of 2011, president obama's approval ratings tank. so the more republicans can draw him into a fight with congress and draw that sort of -- draw him off the presidential pedestal, that works for them politically. you heard mitch mcconnell, john boehner, some of the conservatives on the sunday shows this morning say they want to see some kind of cut attached to the debt ceiling and president obama has sort of made a precedent of that in the last couple of debt ceiling increases that he will, nfc, negotiate and give up at least something. >> perry, so the other sort of challenge here, you've got the president on tuesday night clearly he's going to try to do i think the best he can as the

leader of the party to set up democrats for the elections in the fall both in laying out his agenda and laying out the democratic party agenda, if about you will. how does he strike that balance? because one of the credit sichs we know we're going to hear when you talk about income inequality, is class warfare. democrats will be accused of engaging in class warfare. >> the thing they rely on is the minimum wage. that's supported by republicans and democrats and independents. i know in kentucky allison grimes, the senate candidate there running against mcconnell, her staff thinks that proposal is a great idea, where it puts mcconnell in a box. so they feel that that kind of issue is smart one. obama's leaning more toward minimum wage than tax increases, i think that's a smart way to go. >> reid very quickly because i want to get to something rand paul said today. it's been interesting to note that essentially most of the focus of what we'll be hearing

about is domestic and obviously that's where people's interests are. but kind of a debacle right now in afghanistan. you would think that the president, i know he's got his talking point that we're going to be getting out. but i would hope that he'll address -- you've got afghanistan, syria, iran, there are some really important foreign policy issues that could actually overtake the second term. >> and you've seen a real stark divide between congress which is actually trying to have a hand in a lot of these foreign policy issues whether new sanctions on iran or advocating the use of force in syria, whatever it happens to be and the white house, which, of course, wants to operate its own foreign policy. i think what we're going to see in the state of the union, though, is a really careful toeing of the line here which is some things which are sort of pie in the sky hopes that president obama wants like an increase in the federal minimum wage which will not happen as long as republicans control the house and less talk about things that actually might happen. i think you'll see president obama not turning the screws on immigration reform as much as he

could, for example, because he knows that if he many kos out in favor of something, that means that there are about 200 republicans in house that will automatically be against it. >> perry, i'll switch gears here because it felt this morning like rand paul saw the gap behind the christie scandals and has put himself right in the mix. he was trying to talk like a guy who is seriously running. i heard him say the word "compromi "compromise" which i almost fell out of my chair. then he also took an odd hit at the clintons. i'm going to play some sound for you. >> the question is are we willing to narrow our focus and go after things that we can agree to and get them done or are we going to stay so polarized that we always have to have our way or the highway? we need to be telling our kids that poverty is linked to having children before you're married and the institution of marriage is incredibly important not just as a religious institution but as an economic institution. one of the workplace laws and rules that i think are good is

that bosses shouldn't prey on young interns in their office, and i think really the media seems to have given president clinton a pass on this. >> so perry, you got a little bit of, i can compromise, you got a little bit of a message to the far right when it comes to marriage and family, and then you got a dig at the clintons. >> i'm not sure the strategy behind that dig at the clintons. there are some that would make sense to me in terms of the clintons. you might attack them for the impeachment, but i don't say that one will serve him particularly well. rand paul is smart, he's trying to become less mr. tea party and mr. republican. he's endorsed mcconnell down in kentucky. even the tea party activists who don't like mcconnell are trying to defeat him. trying to avoid a fight with christie and meeting with karl rove, which i never thought would happen for him. he's trying to figure out how do i fill this void. i don't see it happening.

it's more likely to be someone like scott walker but he's trying to do and that's smart. >> the other comment he made was on the war on women, i think he was trying to defend the comments or talk about the comments that huckabee had made. he basically said women have already won because -- and he cited all these places where women have made progress, but it risked sounding very condescending and sounding like there's no problem. again women voters are going to be very critical to this republican party. >> you know, republicans have made the case that they are now taking an effort to train candidates running for congress through the national republican congressional committee and the senate through the national senatorial committee on how to talk to women, how to deal with women. even publicizing those efforts speak to the difficulty with which republicans have -- the sort of the line they have to toe on this. >> right. >> what i'd say about paul, though, is he is walking -- he has not developed the sort of national campaign structure that a lot of the other candidates

had. perry mentioned scott walker. you know, walker has sort of his political team. chris christie has his political team. >> right. >> the guys who know how to run and win races. rand paul has sort of a stronger claim i think to the base in a lot of these primary states than most other candidates have. he doesn't quite have the organization yet. i'll be watching real closely to see who he hires, who he brings into his organization. you know how important it is to have good people around you. >> absolutely. here's a tip, rand, don't try to tell women it's all in their heads. thank you to reid wilson and perry bacon. questions no male candidate would ever have to face. the judgments on women running for office both democrat and republican were on display again this week as wendy davis corrected her biography. you won't believe it. >> it's hard for me to judge that because other people's marriages are pretty opaque. she gave up custody of her child after she got divorced. the child was young, at home.

and she went to go be with people she thought were more interesting. and it basically says that. you know what? i'm going to go ahead and judge that. call me judgmental. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ still running in the morning? yeah. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables for only 50 delicious calories. of the dusty basement at 1406 35th street the old dining table at 25th and hoffman. ...and the little room above the strip mall off roble avenue. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more.

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texas gubernatorial candidate wendy davis apologized this week after contradictory details in her biography were revealed. turns out she was separated from her first husband at age 19 but not officially divorced until she was 21. she only lived in a trailer park for a few months before she actually moved in with her mother and she was a single mom at that time. she did have help from her then-husband who cashed in his 401(k) to help pay for harvard law school. davis has apologized and said

she'll be more prosis in the future. no big deal, right? wrong. according to the right wing, these revelations prove that davis is exactly what they suspected her of being, a bad mother, a gold digger, power hungry, shifty, untrustworthy. here's a lovely tweet from conservative commentator ben shapiro, quote, wendy davis apparently abandoned her children, had her husband foot her bills and divorced after adultery accusations. # feminist hero. and this one from erick erickson. so abortion barbie had a sugar daddy ken. not exactly the bio she claimed. wendy davis did make a mistake but the language, that language has nothing to do with any legitimate analysis of that mistake. instead it's the kind of sexist, misogynist language that's used to undermine women candidate and this election could see a record number of women candidates running at all levels. i know from my own experience in politics, we'll see and hear a lot more of those attacks on

women candidates on both sides of the aisle. to help us take a closer look, let's bring in crystal ball, co-host of the cycle here on msnbc and a 2010 candidate for congress and marjorie margolies who is now running to represent the pennsylvania 13th. thanks to you both for joining me. you're watching, i'm loving this. >> planned this in advance. >> the good folks at name it, change it, came up with a way to categorize and understand some of these disgusting things and the impact that they have on women running for office. it's called the pyramid of egregiousness. level one would be just plain sexist. and those are the kind of seemingly innocuous comments about hair or clothing or, you know, there was condi rice's boots or janet yellen's sweater set, if you will. you know, marjorie, i know that you're no stranger to these kinds of attacks, but they

really are -- i mean, while they're not particularly significant, they definitely start to undermine the seriousness of a woman candidate. >> absolutely. but you have to expect it. kind of walk it off. but the first time i ran, my opponent wanted -- said he wanted to mud wrestle. >> oh, geez. >> did you take him up? >> i think you have to expect it. women are treated differently. sometimes it's to their advantage, sometimes to their disadvantage. and then when people start to realize that there is a saying, moderate or middle, a real pushback on what they're saying, it may be to our advantage. it is tough, but for wendy davis, she said she was a little loose with the narrative. it's a very -- she's under a different microscope now. >> yeah. >> it's very different running for governor than it is running for a state senate seat.

so she knows very well. but the question is how many harvard grads, law school grads lived in ra trailer park for however short period of time, had a child as a teenager and rose to -- we've got to get to the point where we say we're going to judge you on what you've done, and that's a challenge. >> and i think that's so important. we've got a couple of full screens. one is a photoshop of sarah palin because after all the sexism is bipartisan. totally inappropriate. then in "the new york times" headlines about christine quinn when when she was running about letting her fury fly. those kind of comments and images really conceptualize women and keep them from being taken seriously. >> sometimes those just plain sexist assaults are the hardest to deal with because they're not direct. there's no one just directly

calling you out saying you're a woman, you don't deserve this office. but the emphasis on clothes, the emphasis on appearance, the questions in wendy davis' case about whether or not she's a good mother. when is the last time we had conjecture over whether someone is a good dad. a dad going off or going to school and being overconsumed with his work, that's doing what it takes to support his family. a woman in the same shoes suddenly she's, quote, abandoned he children. they did some research around the impact of those types of comments and they really do serve to undermine a female candidate and to undermine her credibility. the one other piece of this, too, is that women know that they're going to face these type of attacks and it makes them less likely to run for office. >> that takes us to the -- >> hold on a second, marjorie. >> that takes us to the sort of wave on the pyramid really being sexist. by saying that a woman is a bad mother, i mean, then you're

really -- i think women candidates, marjorie, tell me if you agree with this, have to be tough and compassionate that's different in a way from men. if you're a bad mother that goes to the heart of your femininity. >> oh, my gosh, oh, it's really -- i have a really large combined family, 11 kids. when i was running 20 years ago the question was always asked and i did ask, would you ask this to a male candidate? in a way it's unfair because people assume that the motherly role is to be -- but it's the job. i think things have changed, i think they've changed very slowly. they need to -- when i was in congress i wrote a book with the other new -- it was the year of the woman. i wrote a book with the other 23 members. they all said the same thing. the juggle is much, much more challenging. it's often much more unfair. there is definitely a double standard. we're judged differently.

but that's what we've got to get used to. >> right. >> so taking us to the top of the pyramid would be severe misogyny and that's the far more derogatory language, the sort of, you know, ball busters, the sort of -- >> abortion barbie, maybe. >> talk about our libidos, for example, our sugar uncles. and we have some of the magazine covers that kind of i think illustrate this point pretty well in terms of i hadly. obviously there's the cover this week from "the new york times magazine." i've not seen a cover like that with a male politician. >> yeah. >> and we've got a couple more to show the comparison between time magazine covers. you may look at that and some might say, come on, don't you have a sense of humor? it's funny. but it's not. it is demeaning. it is undermining. >> it does damage a woman's credibility unless -- and this is the important part in the advice that politicians haven't gotten but which the name it, change it, research actually

shows does work is you or someone else has to call it out as sexist. a lot of people will look at a magazine cover like that until you point it out. that really is wrong and it really is sexist. i don't think erick erickson with his abortion barbie comments is doing his side any favors. it's so egregious and people say this is just totally unfair and over the line. >> that is the bounce. when you were running for congress, did have you moments like that where you had to -- >> oh, yeah. >> i know you did. >> a blog closely associated with my opponent released these party photos from when i was young and they were not the image that i guess people may have had in their mind of a candidate. i was fully clothed, with my husband. they were sort of suggestive, i would say. i was very upset because i worked so hard to build this serious campaign. as a young woman candidate with young children, to be taken serious as a candidate.

and when it came out, i was absolutely devastated. i actually turned to the name it, change it research and what it said. i went on tv that night and i said, this is sexist. you would never see this sort of thing from a male candidate. scott brown had just run and won after having posed naked in "cosmo" and he's considered like a stud for doing it. >> it's cool. >> and there i am fully clothed and it's a big deal. it was handled in the right way and made the best of it under the circumstances. >> marjorie, one other example that i think you may remember from our mutual friend hillary clinton. when she was -- and this is an experience i had. this goes to this issue of can you be smart and pretty and also when you're a woman how you have to balance sort of what that image is. so we did a "time" magazine cover and we're showing it now. that's not the picture that we took. they brought in a fashion photographer who took some of the most beautiful pictures i've ever seen of hillary clinton and "time" decided they were too

pretty, so instead they ran that cover "a scent of a woman" and that all fed into that sense of who they wanted to caricature hillary to be. >> i think hillary knows how to take these things. it's not easy, but she is so talented and she's gone through this for so many years, i can remember when we were in beijing together and we came back and did a little thing on her and at the end she stood up and said, did you realize i had about 19 different hair dos. she just knows how to take it. she knows that this is part of the drill. and i think for us, the woman running, you have to be able to say exactly what crystal said, which is perfect, then move on. people do expect something different from you, you know they do. they expect more in a way, sometimes less, but usually it's more. and i think we have to just kind of prove to the people out there who are being so -- and tone

deaf. we have to prove to them that we can do the kind of job that we're expected to do. >> all right. we're going to have to leave it there. thank you, krystal ball and marjorie margolies. coming up, oh, to be a fly on the wall inside of the hallowed halls of a wall street titan. that's coming up. [ male announcer ] this is jim. a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation, an irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke. for years, jim's medicine tied him to a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but now, with once-a-day xarelto jim's on the move. jim's doctor recommended xarelto. like warfarin, xarelto is proven effective to reduce afib-related stroke risk. but xarelto is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner

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disrupt.com. stay with msnbc for special state of the union coverage at 9:00 p.m. on tuesday. where is jack ryan when we need him? the countdown to sochi is on and the concerns couldn't be higher. we'll talk to a security expert on what needs to be done to keep our athletes safe. >> i would advise the athletes that do everything they're asked to do by the security team, by the state department, by the fbi because they may feel safe, they may feel secure, wander off or wear some indicator that they're from the u.s. and just leave themselves open as a target. now, this is a dangerous situation. the end. lovely read susan. may i read something? yes, please. of course. a rich, never bitter taste cup after cup. 340 grams. [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] always rich,

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would be mainly surrounding the lgbt community because of russia's anti-gay laws. but the threats are clearly much broader than that. new video surfaced friday exactly two weeks before the games posted by an al qaeda ally comparing this year's games to those held in hitler's germany in 1936. along with a warning of terrorist attacks to come in sochi. and just yesterday a new warning came from the same group responsible for last month's suicide bombings in volgograd. american authorities don't expect these threats to dissipate any time soon. on the heels of a state department warning to all americans planning to travel to the games, defense secretary chuck hagel said friday a plan is in place to extract americans if needed. even with president putin's security plans in place, that includes a ring of steel around the games along with a security force of 40,000 and six missile dwebs systems, there's still concern here at home over these threats and frustration over a lack of cooperation on

intelligence gathering from the russians as expressed by two lawmakers just this morning. >> the one sense you get over there in russia is a sense of nationalistic pride. they do not want the united states to come in and tell them how to secure their olympic games, so we have a delicate, you know, balance to deal with. >> i can't emphasize enough, the russians have not been cooperative as far as sharing intelligence. again, the greeks did, the chinese did, the brits did, the russians did not and theirs is the most dangerous. >> one of the americans traveling to the games as part of our delegation is brian boitano who focused on the safety of the athletes on "cbs this morning." >> i think the athletes' safety will be first and foremost and i'm sure it will be. i think the athletes village will be one of the safest places to be, but from an athlete's perspective to cancel the olympics would be absolutely

devastating. >> joining me is head of security for major league baseball and a lead security consultant to the los angeles olympics and four-time olympic luger. thanks so you both. cameron, i want to start with you, do you agree with that sentiment that really -- don't think about canceling but definitely think about your safety. >> i don't think canceling the games is within anyone's sort of understanding of what the possibilities are at this point, but absolutely. athletes should be concerned about their safety, but of course every single athlete who is going to compete in sochi has been training for years of their lives to be at the olympic games. so i hope that they are actually all able to focus on their competitions and hope that the security plans are in place. >> how do you do that? i mean, how do you stay -- i mean, it's hard enough to stay focused, right, when you're at the olympics, it's exciting, all of that. but you've been there. take us inside to that. how do you stay focused

particularly when you've got more of a different kind of threat than we've seen before. >> it's definitely a challenge to stay focused because the olympic games is so different than any other competition that any athlete will ever compete in. they will -- the athletes will go -- every single time they go in and out of the olympic village they'll go through security and have their luge sleds or whatever other equipment go through metal detector, but most athletes are willing to put up with that inconvenience in exchange for feeling as though they're safe. >> kevin, i want to ask you, you know, we've seen this sort of high alert in sochi. we've got -- there's an alert for american travelers. they're saying no team usa clothing outside venue, there's an extraction plan in place. that seems like a fairly higher level protocol of security than i think we've seen previously at olympics. >> karen, you're absolutely right. clearly this olympics has gotten a lot more publicity, a lot more

concern than probably ever expressed before. however, i think what's really important and i think cameron touched on it is what the u. u.s.o.c. will do and probably what they have done along with fbi and other law enforcement people involved along with their security counterparts is to instill a confidence within the athletes without making them paranoid. letting them know their focus is on the competition but they can be assured that security, the u.s. obviously in cooperation with our russian partners are going to be at the forefront. it's just going to make this a co comprehensive security plan but they should be concerned about their event and we'll take care of the security. one other thing i should mention is the u.s. authorities certainly do not want to enter russia treating them as kind of

the adversary. they are the leaders, clearly in what's being done and we should be good partners. >> i wanted to ask you about that because you heard a couple members of congress this morning with regard to intelligence matters they feel they're not getting the when you have an event of this size, so many different delegations, many different security force, we're hearing ha some athletes are hiring their own security, we've got american, other countries no doubt thinking about their athletes and their security, how do you coordinate all that and make sure that there's a protocol in place so that everybody knows what they're doing if, god forbid, something happens? >> karen, it really starts at the very beginning. indeed, a year or two even more. as soon as you learn where the event is going to be, you immediately start communicating, you start building relationships. i can tell you having dealt with

officials from four or five different countries who initially were not, it appeared, looking to share the information regarding what their plans were, eventually they came around. we were able to work together. clearly the u.s. has to take a somewhat of a secondary role to the russians, but once you have those relationships in place and clearly understand what they're planning on doing and how they're going about their work, i think it will be something that will just fall right into place and we're going to have a successful event. >> i think we all are looking forward to successful event. go team usa. thank you, cameron myler and kevin hal o ran. our disrupter of the week is next. passenger: road trip buddy. let's put some music on. woman: welcome to learning spanish in the car. passenger: you've got to be kidding me. driver: this is good.

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earlier this week, president obama candidly discussed an issue we don't often hear him comment on publicly, racial polarization in america and specifically as it relates to his presidency. his comments were part of an extensive interview published in "the new yorker" magazine. there's no doubt that there's some folks who just really dislike me because they don't like the idea of a black

president. now, the flip side of it is there are some black folk, maybe some white folks who really like me and give me the benefit of the doubt precisely because i'm a black president. you know, ever since president obama was elected to office, the country has been re-examining its feelings about race and prejudice. for many the level and tone of outright disrespect and disdain for the legitimacy of the obama presidency has felt racist. at a time when america is already undergoing tectonic shifts on issues surrounding race, gender, equality, what impact will president obama have on the larger arc of race issues in american history. is he a catalyst for conversation or merely revealing issues that have long been ignored. now surprisingly the right wing conservatives were quick to misconstrue the president's remarks and attack him for playing the race card. you can count on one hand the number of times the president has waded into race publicly. carefully, almost methodically choosing specific moments to weigh in. from the zimmerman verdict to the arrest of harvard professor

skip gates and a recent commencement speech delivered to morehouse graduates. take a listen. >> when you think about why, in the african-american community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, i think it's important to recognize that the african-american community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away. the fact that it has garnered so much attention i think is a testimony to the fact that these are issues that are still very sensitive here in america. my whole life i've tried to be for michelle and my girls what my father was not for my mother and me. i want to break that cycle. where a father's not at home. where a father's not helping to

raise that son or daughter. >> joining me now, msnbc contributor and president ceo for voto latino and from the daily beast jamel bowie. i wanted to sort of intentionally make the point that the president really has sort of picked his spots, picked his moments when he's weighed into these issues in a public way. why now he would have this kind of conversation with "the new yorker" magazine? >> part of it is because he's no longer up for election. he sort of has a freedom to discuss these issues that wasn't true in his first term. that's what you saw with the zimmerman verdict, he was much more forthright and forthcoming than he'd been before that. remember the first time he tried to talk about racial issues after the arrest of skip gates, his approval rating with white just took a sudden dip. it wasn't attributable to

economic conditions, it seemed to be directly related to his decision to talk about racial issues, in essence, make himself not just a president who is black, but a black president. >> and you know, maria, it seemed like people were really uncomfortable with him weighing in at that point. we took a gallup poll on views of race relations over the years. in june 59% of blacks and 69% of whites thought that racial relations were somewhat or very good. and it feels like we should have come a little bit farther in that ten-year period. >> not only farther, but i think it's testament when folks are saying the president right now is race baiting. he's the only president who had to produce a birth certificate and prove whether they were born in the united states north with the birther movement. if we want to really delve into

the issues that he stated that he cares b immigration, job inequality, when you're talking about the disproportionate about of black and latino young men in jail because of pot violations compared to young white men, he can only have these conversations if he starts actually saying, look, we do have a race problem and proportionately these issues we're talking about, income inequulty has to do with the fact that we're not talking about race in its wholeness. until we have that conversation, we can't actually make major steps when it comes to policy issues. >> that's such an important point because the president just announced changes to -- guidelines really for school discipline and immediately the right wing said he's injecting race into the classroom, and yet the data shows -- >> that's right. >> it's not even being racist, here's what the numbers show you. it really feels they use that charge as a way to shut down conversation and to ignore what's really going on. >> i think there's a tendency to want to look at the fact that we

have a black president and say, obviously these issues aren't so bad any more because look this one guy became president of the united states, but it remains true that there's a tremendous amount of racial inequality in society. and the pipeline is just one particularly dramatic example of that but they're all across society, from marijuana enforcement to the fact that the unemployment rate among african-americans and latinos is grocery underweighted from their white counterparts. you can't really deal with any issues in the american life without dealing with race. i think the right wing's refusal to want to do that is a testament to how much they don't seem to have any real answers for the problems that face our society. >> you know, it struck me when i was reading this piece and sort of the reaction, one of the things that struck me is it may end up that this is really an unintended part of the obama legacy. i say unintended only because as you were talking about, he talked about specific issue, but

merely by the fact that he is an african-american, he brings a different set of experiences to this job at a time when our country is undergoing major change and charles blow said something interesting i want to read to you real quick. he said nerves are raw, antennas are up and race has become a lightning rod in the obama era, this is not obama's doing, but the simple result of his being. it strikes me that president obama stepping into this a bit particularly as he has picked his moments, this could end up being a huge part of his legacy. >> it will be a huge part of his legacy but it's also an important legacy. one of the reasons he was elected a second term was the electorate, where you had single women, young people, people of color now saying we are the new face of america and we need an ele elected official who demonstrates that. in a congress that's not diverse, it is refreshing to

have a candidate that represents that demographic shift. his challenge is to make sure he balances it so it's not a conversation that divides america but really unifies us. and the right doesn't want that conversation because that means they're going to have to make major changes. they can no longer come up with a brand statement of how they're going o change themselves. they actually fundamentally have to. >> i completely agree. we can't be afraid to have this conversation because if we shrink from having this conversation, we're not going to make progress. thank you so much for being part of this conversation. >> thank you, karen. >> thank you. >> that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. please don't forget to share your thoughts, find us on facebook and tweet us @msnbc disrupt. i'll see you back here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. eastern. until then, have a great week. i have low testosterone. there, i said it.

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