knowledge of the lane closures before they happened and whatever mr. wildstein's motivations were for closing them to begin with. for the full statement, you can go to our website at ed.msnbc.com. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. and thanks to you for tuning in. a chris christie investigation bombshell. the port authority official who carried out the september lane closings to the washington bridge claims governor christie knew of the closings, knew of the lane closings as they were happening. the claim directly contradicts governor christie's own story. it comes from david wildstein, the man who replied "got it" after receiving that now infamous e-mail time for some

traffic problems in ft. lee. wildstein resigned in december. but in a letter released late today, his lawyer states a person within the christie administration communicated the christie administration's order that certain lanes of the george washington bridge were to be closed and evidence exists as well tying mr. christie to having knowledge of the lane closures during the period when the lanes were closed. contrary to what the governor stated publicly in a two-hour press conference, end of quote. the key claim there that the governor knew of the lane closings as they were happening, which contradicts the governor. >> i had no knowledge of this, of the planning, the execution, or anything about it.

and that i first found out about it after it was over. and even then what i was told was that it was a traffic study. and there was no evidence to the contrary until yesterday that was brought to my attention or anybody else's attention. >> now, that was governor christie on january 9th. he made similar claim in a press conference on december 13th. joining me now are msnbc's steve kornacki and e.j. dionne. thank you both for being here. >> good to be with you. >> now, steve, you led much of the report thong christie investigation story. what is your reaction to this? >> it's two things. the letter that we're talking about right now, part of this is the port authority where david wildstein was employed. the port authority he resigned from. >> who you used to work for. >> i worked for david wildstein. i do know david wildstein. have i not spoken to him personally since this whole thing broke in the last few

months. the port authority denied him -- denied paying for his legal defense. so ostensibly, that is what this letter is about. he is making a claim to the port authority that it was wrong denying paying for his legal defense and here is why. it's significant. there is a motivation for david wildstein to try to get the port authority to pay for his legal defense. but thing is a second way of reading this letter. and it goes hand in hand with a few things we've seen from wildstein and his lawyer over the last few months, and they are putting it out there not so subtly that hey, there is stuff that david wildstein nose there is stuff i know there is stuff that i can prove there is stuff that that might be use to feel the u.s. prosecutor, his lawyer said at the assembly a few weeks ago, basically, give me immunity. give my client immunity and he will be a lot more helpful to you. what he writes in this letter, he asserts as a fact that that e-mail from briblgt kelly, "time for some traffic in ft. lee", optimistic defenders of the governor would like to believe this was a small cabal of people

operating rogue. he asserts as fact that that was an order coming from higher up. >> and that while it was being executed, the governor had knowledge. he doesn't say before it was executed, but he does say while it was executed, contrary to what the governor said, he had knowledge. >> and it's worded in a very -- the evidence exists, and then he talks about how he takes issue with some of the governor's characterizations in his press conference on january 9th, and he can disprove some of them. well, which ones can he disprove? which once can't? it's sort of game here. this is sort of an offer to the u.s. attorney for immunity. that's partly how i read it. >> e.j., what is your reaction? >> well, first of all, i do agree with steve that wildstein, first of all, this is somebody who really got thrown under the bus. and so what he is saying is you throw me under the bus, i'm going to throw you under an acela train.

and that the two moments that the christie news conference back in january that really stuck with me, the first was his incredibly broad denial of knowledge about this. and i have more respect for christie to think he was that clueless or incurious what was going on there is also that moment when he was asked where he basically denied he was a close friend of wildstein and said basically, i was an athlete and class president. i don't know what this guy was doing. see when i watch that, i had first of all wondered whether that first statement could stand. and second, what david wildstein must have been thinking at that moment. now when you look at the christie denial, and i'd really love to know what steve thinks about this, there really seems to be some parsing of words about what the meaning of when it was going on or after it happened is. >> let me -- you referring to the denial. let me let the viewers see the denial. this was released by governor christie's office.

and it says, "mr. wildstein's lawyer confirms what the governor has said all along. he had absolutely no prior knowledge of the lane closures before they happened. and whatever mr. wildstein's motivations were for closing them to begin with." as the governor said in a december 13th press conference, he only first learned lanes were closed when it was reported by the press, and as he said in this january 9th press conference, had no indication that this was anything other than a traffic study until he read otherwise the morning of january 8th. the governor denies mr. wildstein's lawyer's other assertions." now e.j., clearly we're parsing words here, because we don't know what other assertions he is denying. and the governor did not say only that he didn't have knowledge prior. he said he knew absolutely

nothing about it during the lanes closings. not even that he was told it was a traffic study during it. so this would be an absolute clear contradiction if in fact the evidence exists. and i agree with steve, though. well don't know what that evidence is. >> right. and at some point, that's got to come out at some point. really what you have got is some parsing before, during and after. it would appear he knew nothing before. except that wildstein is suggesting this came from higher up in the administration. but the during part, wildstein seems to be saying he did know something then. the governor is saying no. and then after we don't even have any knowledge right now. i think from the wildstein letter about what might have been done to cover this up or push this aside. >> steve, your reaction to the statement released by governor christie's office. >> it's very confusing to read.

you have the wildstein letter today talking about evidence existing of the governor knowing about this as it was playing out. you have the statement saying -- well, the lawyer confirm what's the governor said all along. he had absolutely no prior knowledge. well, prior knowledge versus as it was going on could be the difference of just a couple of days. you the governor saying here he only first learned lanes were closed when it was reported by the press. it was reported by the press about three days into the shutdown. we're talking about september 12th of last year. and not until january 9th, not until right before january 9th. >> steve, you said he is making a loud noise here, wildstein so that the u.s. attorney and other investigators say this guy may have something. give him immunity. but wouldn't that depend on the evidence he has? >> exactly. >> if they determine that his evidence is not up to a certain level, or does not really fit a

criminal element, would they not say no, we're not giving -- we're not interested? >> absolutely. it's interesting to see. >> because you have the political as well as the ethical state and the criminal. >> right. >> we're looking at this through three or four different angles here. >> yeah. it strikes me it's the fourth time there has been sort of a public hint at a desire for immunity here. one was in when initially the subpoenas went out and wildstein's came back. raises all sorts of lurid possibilities. and to hold out wildstein as sort of being the guy who could potentially connect all the dots. ten he takes the fifth. and his lawyer says cloak him in immunity, he'll be able to answer a lot more questions. and a week after that his lawyer says we want immunity. he'll be able to talk more. we have four instances of him publicly putting in a bid for immunity. the wild card, though, in all this is first of all, like you say, what can he give the u.s. attorney? that's ultimately for the u.s.

attorney to decide. can he give him enough hard evidence that makes it worth giving him immunity. >> that's a federal crime. >> right. the second part is david wildstein is not the only player here. what can bridget kelly potentially give paul fishman there are all those subpoenas that went out to all these different people. it could end up like a game of let's make a deal. >> e.j., if i'm christie, if i'm on the other side of this who was a federal prosecutor, wouldn't by argument be that not only does he have to have evidence, but he would have to have evidence that fits a federal crime or a state crime or an impeachable act if it is the state investigators, not just evidence. i mean, evidence could be wildstein making a statement. wouldn't a lot of this weigh on all of that? and isn't the problem that the public has and the media has is how we have to deal and distinguish between what is politically damaging to devastating, and what is legally

devastating or damaging. >> oh, absolutely. and i think we're way ahead of the game if we start talking about crime. we don't know yet that there is any crime committed here by the governor. and we're not even sure what the criminal action is going to be on any of this stuff. so i do think it's premature on that, way too premature on that side. on the other hand, politically, there are a couple of things here. this story has moved even faster than i thought it would. and the notion that the governor has to continually answer questions about this has to have his original denial come under this kind of attack really from david wildstein, the fact that there are other wild cards out there like bridget kelly, who got a new lawyer along the way, which suggested that she -- it's not clear which side she is going to be on at the end of this. i think all of this raises a mountain of political problems.

he has already dropped in the republican polls. this is not going to help him in that respect at all. >> and the problem you get there is being that no one knows what wildstein is referring to. when you hear e.j. talk about other players, if there are other players engaging in communication with him that. >> may want to step forward thinking he may be prepared to throw them in front of the acela train as e.j. says. >> that's exactly right. that's why february 3rd when the subpoenas are due back, those are due back next week. when those come back, just think about what we learned from the wildstein and the baroni records that came back about a month ago and how that exploded this whole thing. now you have about 20 -- close to two dozen subpoenas there that are out there. now, it's an open question how many are actually going to be answered, because you have bill stepien saying he is not going to respect that he is not going to respect the subpoena. >> what do you read into that? stepien says he pleads the fifth. he is not going to respond to the subpoena? >> to me, that's a tale of two

different strategies. wildstein is somebody who is angling for a deal. i read stepien is somebody who is bracing for a trial. and the particular predicament that stepien finds himself in is not only has he been subpoenaed by the legislative committee, that's the one he is saying he is not going to provide documents to be, the u.s. attorney has subpoenaed chris christie's reelection campaign. bill stepien has essentially already been subpoenaed by the u.s. attorney. so he finds himself in a more precarious position than the average person who has been subpoenaed by the legislature. and i think based on this strategy today, this is somebody who is not looking to cooperate. this is somebody who is bracing himself for a legal fight, a fight in court i think much more than wildstein. >> isn't it also a precarious position, e.j., that you have chris christie who has to deal with the criminal exposure, the ethical exposure and the political damage of governor, sitting governor who was being raised as possibly a

presidential candidate, but the other players in this don't have to worry about politics. they only are concerned about the legalities, maybe the ethical. isn't that a precarious position for christie? because they really have less to lose than him in terms of appearances. >> oh, that's right. i mean, they are already exposed to a lot of negative comment, including in a couple of cases from governor christie himself. >> and already lost their jobs and their positions. >> right. so the real question here, i mean, it's going to be where do loyalties lie. and given what has happened between wildstein and christie, it sure appears that wildstein does not feel strong loyalties to christie. how much loyalty will the other characters in the story have. and if the threats to them, the legal threats to them increase, whatever loyalty they have start to erode?

that always happens on a story like this. >> the only loyalty left, that's a good question. the bottom line for me, steve, what happened? what happened today means what? what is the bottom line? >> i think it confirms what i've been saying, i sort of suspected about wildstein's position relative to all the of other non-christie players. as we talk about this question of loyalty, wildstein went into this with much less built-in loyalty. his loyalty to christie doesn't go deep like the other players in this. i know people keep linking them as high school las mates, or they went to high school around the same time. they come from the same town there is this natural tendency to say they're old buddies. the dave wildstein i knew, this was not about protecting or looking out for chris christie. when david wildstein sold the website that i worked for, he sold to it the family who is the number one arch-enemy of chris christie, is the kushner family. and chris christie sent off

charles kushner to prison. this is the family wildstein sold his media empire. to you're generally not going to find yourself into a position like wildstein did if you have that position. the reason why david wildstein ended up with the position is because of bill baroni bringing him. in. >> therefore the kind of guy that would go up against the governor. is he the john dean, potentially the john dean? >> he comes with less loyalty, less to lose from a loyalty standpoint and i could see him more than anybody else in this drama playing that role. absolutely. >> e.j., what are you looking for next? >> i think just as steve has just suggested, i think what you're going to see is a very systematic effort on the part of the christie side to really discredit david wildstein further, to say he is in this to try to get some kind of deal. he is mad because he didn't get a lawyer. so they're going to try to push him aside and push the explicit

and implicit allegations aside by saying he is in it for himself. but if he actually has documents that prove what he says, none of that matters. i think the other thing, steve mentioned earlier those redactions. there is going to be an enormous amount of pressure now to unredact those documents if there is such a verb, because whoever is excluded in those e-mails now becomes even more interesting. >> well, it's going to come down to what mr. wildstein has and what value it is to who. and we're going to certainly be following this. steve kornacki, who raised the ante on this story and e.j. dionne, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> good to be with you. >> band sure to watch "up with steve kornacki" weekends at 8:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, much, much more on the breaking news, including christie's former campaign

manager pleading the fifth today. and chris christie and his own words, the tale of the tape leading up to today's news. stay with us. ooh, homemade soup! yeah... [ male announcer ] campbell's homestyle soup with farm grown veggies. just like yours. huh. [ male announcer ] and roasted white meat chicken. just like yours. [ male announcer ] you'll think it's homemade. i love this show. [ male announcer ] try campbell's homestyle soup. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain...

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breaking news tonight in the chris christie bridge scandal. one key player is making an explosive accusation about what christie knew and when he knew it. another is pleading the fifth, refusing to turn over documents to investigators. what does it all mean for the investigations looking into the bridge closures? what are prosecutors and lawyers looking at right now? that's next. but when she saw the room... you turned into a weird "7". when she saw the roof-top pool... you went to: "11" ♪ you two should probably get a room...

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we're back with more on the breaking news. a former port authority official says evidence exists tying christie to having knowledge of the lane closures. during the period when the lanes were closed. that directly contradict what's the governor has said. the new claim comes from the lawyer for david wildstein, the man who lamented the lane closings. wildstein's lawyer did not disclose the evidence. christie's office released a statement saying he had absolutely no prior knowledge of the lane closures before they happened. let us bring in former u.s. attorney kendall coffey and criminal defense attorney brian wice. thank you both for being here tonight. >> thanks for inviting us. >> thanks. >> kendall, mr. wild scene's

attorney says evidence exists tying the governor to having knowledge of the lane closures. legally, what could this mean for the governor? >> well, it could be a bombshell or a bombshell bluff. what we know is that wildstein has an extraordinary campaign trying to market himself as a cooperator, as a potential star witness to the prosecution. and apparently, his attorney isn't satisfied that the prosecution is willing to offer the kind of deal or the kind of interest that wildstein would want in order to open up. it all comes down to not what we are reading in the papers or what is being said through the attorney. what really is the evidence. and wildstein may have knowledge. he may be able to put the pieces together. he could be that gold standard cooperator that the government would like to have, especially if he can take them to some documents and other corroboration. but right now all we've got is something that is intriguing prosecutors, not necessarily

helping them make a case against governor christie. >> now, brian, the fact is you have two things. you have wildstein who was denied the use of -- well, that they would pay for the attorney, the port authority. and you have his quest for immunity. we don't know what the evidence is, and we don't know what wildstein wants immunity from. it seemed to imply there was something unethical or illegal done that wildstein is trying to save himself from. >> and i think, al, that's the $64,000 question. was it illegal or was it unethical? i'm still not convinced at this point necessarily that bridgegate, as we've been calling it, is anything other than jersey politic as usual with guys who have pretty much wrecked chris christie's presidential aspirations. but i think what is critical at this point is wildstein looking for a deal? absolutely.

is his lawyer somebody who has a reputation at fashioning these kinds of high profile deals? sure. but we don't want this to turn into bad "law & order" episode where the investigative committee or worse yet paul fishman, the u.s. attorney ultimately offers the wrong guy the deal. you don't want to buy a pig in a poke. and right now david wildstein is suggesting, look, i am the appetizer, but i can ultimately lead you to a pretty juicy entree, guys. >> that's the point, kendall, because we would assume that mr. wildstein's lawyer would not be doing all this maneuvering unless there was something that wildstein did not want to be exposed to. but the question becomes is wild scene trying to save himself from something that really does not -- becomes that detrimental legally to the governor or whoever the investigators are looking at. >> well, i think there clearly

is criminal exposure here. not necessarily under the federal law. we have to see how that plays out. but new jersey has criminal statutes for official misconduct. >> state law. >> if the allegations are proven, somebody is in a lot of trouble. state law. and i think wildstein has to be mighty concerned because the extraordinary efforts to create, in effect, a case in the court of public opinion complaining about the prosecution not talking to him, not giving him immunity. normally, as we all know, these kind of deals are worked out quietly. you're not running around in front of the press saying why won't they talk to me? why won't they grant me immunity? what you're kind of sharing information and making different offers of what you can prove and negotiating behind the scenes with prosecution. that's not happening here, at least with respect to wildstein, which tells us for whatever reasons, the prosecution is not ready to give him any kind of immunity. >> brian, if you were representing wildstein and you were throwing out these offers,

as kendall just said that the prosecutors are seemingly not willing to bite, at least as of yet on giving immunity, what would be your next step? >> i think the next step, al, is to let the investigative body in new jersey legislature or paul fishman in his investigation that he can fill in the blanks, the pieces of the puzzle. and it's interesting that you channeled watergate with what did the governor know and when did he know it. because i'm having this flashback 40 years ago to john dean ultimately being the first piece in the puzzle that brought down a president. if i'm david wildstein, i will let whomever i need to let know i am the man. i am the guy who knows far more than anybody in this entire imbroglio. and i'll tell you the truth. and when this morality tale is over, i could either give you the governor or bridget kelly or the avon lady. at the end of the day, i'm the guy you want to talk to. let's make this happen.

>> what happens at the end of -- how does this end in your judgment, kendall. where does it go from here? >> we don't know, of course, where it's going to go, because we don't know what the evidence is. but there is another impact of what wildstein is doing. in addition to trying to get the prosecutors' attention, he is getting the attention of other lawyers for other potential suspects and witnesses. why is that important? if you're going to be a cooperator at some point, you want to be the first one in. and sometimes there is almost a russia to make the deal with the prosecutors. because to be the sixth person who cooperates with the government is a whole lot worse than being number one or two. that's another dynamic. believe me, the other lawyers for other potential targets are having conversations with their clients right now about whether or not they need to think about making a deal at some point. >> brian, what kind of evidence could he bring in? e-mail? what could he bring in? >> well, the subpoena essentially asks all of these

folks for any electronically stored data. e-mails from their office computer, from their ipads frrkts their saab lets, from their smart phones, phone logs, post-it notes, text messages. anything that can provide pieces of the puzzle involving what everybody now believes is an ever expanding investigation into whether or not chris christie and his minions, as kendall pointed out, may have violated new jersey law, if not federal law. >> now, kendall, wouldn't at some point if the investigators statewide, if the federal prosecutor does not come through with immunity, wouldn't wildstein be forced to at least publicly then try and infer or leak what kind of evidence he claims to have? i mean, what does he have if everybody says we're not giving you immunity? we're not convinced? >> and the prosecutors may give him immunity months from now. but apparently they're not willing to do it right now. they also think that they're going to be able to get his

records. the fifth amendment protects testimony. it doesn't really protect records of preexisting information that already exist. so maybe you don't have to open up your mouth, but you generally have to open up your record. good defense lawyers will pose objections under the fifth amount called act of production. but sooner or later prosecutors think they can get through that, and that they don't really need to make a deal with somebody to get subpoenaed records because those are records that they already think they're entitled to have legally. >> kendall coffey and brian wice, thank you both for your time. coming up. >> thanks for having me. >> reaction from new jersey congressman frank pallone and new jersey state assemblyman whose district was affected. and we'll look at chris christie's own words leading up to today's news. >> i had no knowledge of this, of the planning, the execution,

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just two months ago, chris christie was joking about the bridge scandal. >> i worked the cones, actually, matt. unbeknownst to everybody, i was actually the guy out there. i was in overalls and hat. i actually was the guy working the cones out there. >> it's very different now. we'll hear christie's past statements and what they could mean going forward. and we'll talk live with a key member of the new jersey committee investigating the christie administration. that's next.

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i had no knowledge of this, of the planning, the execution, or anything about it. and that i first found out about it after it was over. >> i found out after it was over. that was governor chris christie at a press conference on january 9th. but former port authority official david wildstein claims christie knew about the lane closings at the george washington bridge while they were happening. wildstein claims christie knew about the traffic jam while thousands of drivers were stuck in gridlock. wildstein's lawyer says, quote, evidence exists as well tying mr. christie to having knowledge of the lane closures. he also alleges that this was, quote, the christie administration's order. there is still a lot of questions about what exactly

those statements mean. but we do know that throughout this scandal, christie has repeatedly depicted himself as being out of the loop with staff members who had gone rogue. >> i am embarrassed and humiliated by the conduct of some of the people on my team. i had no knowledge or involvement in this issue, in its planning or its execution. and i am stunned by the abject stupidity that was shown here. i was blindsided yesterday morning. we have nothing to hide. this administration has nothing to hide. >> this administration has nothing to hide. today christie's office released a statement saying he had absolutely no prior knowledge of the lane closures before they happened. joining me now are new jersey

assemblyman gordon johnson and nbc news national investigative correspondent michael isikoff. thank you both for coming on the show. >> thank you, reverend sharpton for having me. >> assemblyman johnson, let me start with you. what do you make of these new allegations? >> let me say, reverend sharpton, that it's very troubling, of course, for the governor to come before the people of the state of new jersey and come before the people of new jersey to state that he had no knowledge of this action that was taken by his inside circle, by his inner circle. the collect committee of investigation that will have more now to look at as they piece this together. so it goes to credibility. either he has it or he doesn't. >> now michael isikoff, we are looking at this. but we really don't even know what we're looking at. we don't know what the evidence. we don't know if there is

ethical or criminal or just political implications. and we really don't know if there is anything here at all. >> right. well, look. it is a huge development to have somebody who was a christie insider, who was a criminal appointee at the port authority who actually went to high school with chris christie, although there some question how closely they knew each other. >> right. >> but for him to basically become a turncoat and point the finger at the governor. that is a huge development. and one reasonable interpretation is that david wildstein's lawyer is trying to get an immunity deal from the u.s. attorney. and suggesting he's got a lot here to say. but hen you read the letter closely, it raises a lot more questions than it answers about exactly what he is saying. he is saying that governor christie had knowledge of the

lane closures during the period they were taking place. but that's -- that's not the central issue. the central issue was cash is were the lane closures ordered as part of some political vendetta or political retribution. and david wildstein is not saying, that just that the governor knew about the lane closures while they were taking place when the governor had said he didn't learn about it until afterwards. now, the fact is they were reported in the bergen record, i believe, during the time. so he could have learned about them from press clips. we just don't know. but wildstein is also saying that some of what governor christie said about him during that press conference was inaccurate, and he can prove it. christie made a lot of comments, mostly judgmental about wildstein in that press conference. so we don't know. but, look, there is no question there is a huge -- this is a

huge development. and i should add one other point here is it's not clear we're going to get the answers any time soon, because wildstein's game is the u.s. investigation. until he gets immunity, he is not going to testify. he is not going to tell in public what it is he has to say. and we just also learned today bill stepien, the former campaign manager who was also subpoenaed today a letter from his lawyer to the legislative committee invoking his fifth amendment rights and also saying he is not going to turn over the documents, saying he wants that subpoena for his documents withdrawn. so, you know, it doesn't look like we're going to get a lot of answers, at least from key players on this any time soon. >> assemblyman, the reality is that you and the assembly want answers as soon as possible, and you want to know if what the governor has represented to the public is in fact true.

and i don't think the interest is whether or not he misspoke on wildstein, but whether he misspoke on the orders given by someone with his knowledge or by him to do the lane closing or if he had knowledge while the lane closings was going forward, and if that knowledge included that he knew there was no traffic study. that right? >> reverend sharpton, my concern is the people of the borough of ft. lee and the people who transverse the washington bridge for four days were stuck in a traffic jam for four or five hours. when did the governor know about it? he says he didn't know. mr. wildstein alleges that he did know. my concern is the people of ft. lee and the people of new jersey should know. they should know who -- from their leadership of this state what he knew at the time and when he knew it.

and that's why this select committee is so important. it may take a couple of months. it may take most of this year, i don't know. where it's going to take this committee as they investigate. but people of the state of new jersey and the people of the borough of ft. lee and the folks who traverse the george washington bridge to go to work every day should know what happened. >> no doubt about that. michael, the problem you have is compounded. you the political, you have the ethical, you have the legal and what could be politically damaging or devastating as i said earlier may not be legally damaging or devastating, or it could be devastating legally for some and not politically for others. so we really don't even know what we're looking at here yet. >> i guess one takeaway from this is politically it makes this a lot harder for governor christie to move forward. certainly on a national scale.

he already was facing enormous problems because of this whole affair. but now to know that there are -- there is a central witness out there who is making allegations about him, but is not going to say it in public until he gets a deal from the u.s. attorney means that this thing, it could drag on. because until we hear what david wildstein has to say, until we see his documents, until it's all laid out, governor christie is going to be hounded with questions about this certainly on national scale and in the state as well. >> but that in some ways politically, that's why i made the distinction, could be worse. because let's say if i'm the governor and wildstein's evidence or what he is referring to does not reach a certain level, the fact that you can't deal with that immediately, the fact that we may have to watch this play out politically could be devastating.

and we could find out down the line it was not nearly as bad as it ends up being or that we think. he can't even fight it. i mean, this has to be a real bad situation for him politically. >> right. this is as bad as it can be on the political front for governor christie. because it's hard to see how he gets beyond this because nobody is going to be satisfied that they've gotten the full story until they hear what david wildstein has to say. >> and the irony of it is that this was supposed to be a huge weekend for the governor, the super bowl in new jersey. he just won a big election. i mean, could he have ever imagined he would be spending super bowl weekend in new jersey like this? assemblyman? it's almost unfair to ask you that question, but i will. >> my response to that is i guess timing is everything. >> all right. i'll take that answer. michael, very, very different than i'm sure we would have

thought this weekend would have been for the governor having the super bowl in his home state and having just won a huge election. >> and if you watched him the last few days, he was seemingly making a bid to get beyond this. he was playing the super bowl host governor, making public appearances. and now he has been dealt a really -- this is quite a setback for him. everybody who sees him, i assume he is going to the game on sunday, is going to be thinking about these allegations when they do. >> assemblyman gordon johnson and michael isikoff, thank you both for being here this evening. >> thank you, reverend sharpton, for having me. what could today's news mean politically for governor christie moving forward? congressman frank pallone joins me ahead. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you: when electricity is generated with natural gas instead of today's most used source, how much are co2 emissions reduced?

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we're back with today's breaking news. a former port authority official claiming governor christie knew about the george washington bridge lane closures while they were happening. joining me now is congressman frank pallone, democrat from new jersey. congressman, thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> what is your reaction to this news? >> it's very serious because wildstein's attorney in this letter is clearly indicating that he believes that the governor knew about the lane closures when they were happening. and, you know, i don't have the all the details in front of me, but there seems to be a clear contradiction here between what the governor said in that two-hour press conference versus what this letter is now saying from his lawyer's assistant.

>> now, the new york star ledger has said that if these claims are true, governor christie should resign. do you agree? >> i think that we have to look into it more. this is something for the u.s. attorney. this is something for the state investigative committees. because, again, i don't have all the information in front of me. but i don't think there is any question, al, that wildstein, you know, the governor's assistant or protege is now saying through his attorney that the governor knew. >> right. >> so that's a much more serious charge. >> let me ask this question, because i'm hearing what you're saying. but let's say they find that there is no law broken but that the governor did know. do you think politically he should resign from office even if there was no law broken, but that he had knowledge of this and that he lied about it? >> if it's clear that the governor was not telling the

truth in that press conference, then this could lead down the road what you're suggesting. if that is clear. if it's clear that he is not telling the truth. >> we don't know. i'm just raising the question. this all could be nothing. >> yeah, i think if it's clear that the governor was not telling the truth, that's one of the possible consequences. but i think we've got to look into this morn. but it certainly seems to be -- clearly wildstein's attorney was suggesting that the governor was not telling the truth. >> now, in terms of the last week, even before this came out, we saw the governor slide down, nosedive really in the polls around the question of a presidential run in the republican primaries. i can only imagine it can only go further this weekend. do you think his presidential ambitions are just about over already? >> i mean, that's my view. because, look, there is just so much coming out. as you know, i've been very critical in the last week of this group that was appointed to

administer the sandy funds there is more and more allegations that the sandy funds were used for political purposes or used in exchange for approvals of development. i mean, all these things are making it more and more difficult, i think, for governor christie to run. >> congressman pallone, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you, al. >> where does this investigation go now? that's next. you can separate runway ridiculousness... from fashion that flies off the shelves. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. (natalie) ooooh, i like your style. (vo) so do we, business pro. so do we. go national. go like a pro. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you.

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when she saw the roof-top pool... you went to: "11" ♪ you two should probably get a room... oh that's right! you already did. at planet earth's number one accomodation site... booking.com booking.yeah! it's been a dramatic day of developments in the chris christie bridge scandal, and monday could bring even more. state lawmakers have issued 20 subpoenas in the case, and those subpoenas are due on monday. the documents in those subpoenas could bring answers to many unanswered questions in the case. but let's stick to the facts, and let's see if there is some answers in evidence that we did not get in the letter from mr. wildstein's attorney today.

one thing we do know is thousands of people were caught in a traffic jam for three to four days in new jersey on the busiest bridge in the world. we need to know why. and whoever did it for whatever reasons needs to be held accountable. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. do we have a witness? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. let me start with this. as we go to press this week and a potential blockbuster in the chris christie bridge scandal. the attorney for david wildstein, christie's appointment to the bridge authority, has released a letter saying that his client, david wildstein says evidence exists linking christie, the governor, to knowledge of the lane