for once in your life you sound very pleasant. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. free fico® credit score. get the it card at discover.com. . hello, disrupters." if chris christie was thinking of enjoying new jersey's first super bowl, he can think again. a letter just arrived and it's ruining his party. >> breaking news, david wildstein -- >> alleged that governor chris christie himself knew about this. >> the claim directly contradicts governor christie's own story zip h. >> i had no knowledge of this, the planning, the execution and i first found out about it when it was over. >> david wildstein said there's evidence that governor christie

knew about this as it was under way. the governor is denying it. >> let me clear something up about my childhood friend david wildstein. we were not friends in high school. we were not even acquaintances in high school. >> mr. wildstein's attorney said a while back he was looking for immunity. >> what evidence he's got, what he has to say exactly is going to be key to evaluating where this goes from here. >> just as the super bowl comes to new jersey, new allegations about the bridgegate scandal are here to disrupt governor christie's big weekend. david wildstein, the former port authority official who had a now infamous e-mail exchange is challenging about when governor

christie found out about the lane closures. remember when he repeatedly pledged the fifth? we suspected he had more to offer after he said this. >> if the attorneys general for new york, new jersey and the united states were willing to clothe mr. wildstein with immunity, we think you'd find yourselves in a different position of what he can provide. >> a letter released by his lawyer says "evidence exists tying mr. christie to having knowledge of the lane closuriers while the lanes were closed." the governor's office responded saying "mr. wildstein's lawyer confirms what the governor has

said all along here, had absolutely no prior knowledge of the lane closures before they happened and whatever mr. wildstein's motivations were for closing them to begin with. as the governor said in a december 13 press conference, he only first learned lanes were closed when it was reported by the press. and as he said in his january 9th press conference, he had no indication that this was anything other than a traffic study until he read otherwise the morning of january 8th. the governor denies mr. wildstein's lawyers' other assertions. joining me now, the master of new jersey, steve kornacki, and new jersey assemblyman gordon johnson, a democrat who represents fort lee. help me out with this. there seems to be conflicting information about what the governor knew and when he knew it, right? i want to read another statement we got from his office last night. just to clear up any lingering confusion, governor christie has said each time he has been asked

that he first learned about the closing of the lanes on the george washington bridge from the press accounts after the incident was over. christie said i had no knowledge of the planning, the execution or anything about it and i first found out about it after it was over and even then what i was told was it was a traffic study. there was no evidence to the contrary until yesterday that it was brought to my attention or anybody else's attention. first he says no prior knowledge, which doesn't conflict with what wildstein is saying but then he said he didn't know anything until after. so what do you we think he knew -- >> he's saying press reports. i think the first press reports about this, you're talking about either september 12th or 13th, day three or day four of the shutdowns back at the time. it raises the question we've been talking about all along. if you read those press reports, if you had any conversation with anybody as a result of those press reports, why weren't you

suspicious or pursue it at all. the wildstein statement is really interesting because he's asserting a few things simultaneously. he's saying he can refute some of the claims chris christie made about him, about david w d wildstein in that press conference. he's asserting that evidence exists that chris christie had knowledge of the lane closures while they were talking place and then before that he says, what i think is the most interesting part of the letter, he says that this infamous "time for some traffic in fort lee, he refers to that her delivering an order from the governor's office. if you're a defender of chris christie, one of the things you're either hoping for or saying is that this was a rogue operation. he's asserting -- he's not saying he has evidence but he's

asserting as a fact that when briget kelly sent that e-mail, she was communicating an order from the administration. if there's any evidence of that, that's an order from on high. >> mr. johnson, what was your reaction to the bombshell? >> the legislative select committee run by john wisniski will have something else to look at. the people of fort lee and the people of that region and who traverse that bridge every day, the working people, want to know the truth. that is why we have the select committee. i'm glad that this has come out and the select committee can use it as part of their tools to get to the bottom of this. >> to what you're pointing out, it seemed a little fishy -- remember in that press

conference he was like i'm very hands on, we're like a family but have i these rogue people in my office. as a former press secretary, to not tell your boss a horrible story is coming, that doesn't sound right. what evidence do we think wildstein has? >> in terms of evidence, i don't know. my observations of him beside being someone when you work for him, when you're part of his team, he was very good to me, very good for my career and somebody who always had my back if i needed it professionally. my observation working for him professionally is he's a guy who thinks very strategically, who does contingency planning. he will keep records, he will keep e-mails, he will be prepared -- i was talking to another guy who used to work for him on my show earlier today, he said when the music stops, he's not the kind of guy who is left without a chair. i don't know. this could be all one great bluff, but what i know about

david wildstein is he's somebody who i would say is more likely than not to be prepared for a situation like this from a legal standpoint relative to the other people we're talking about. >> you could see in the e-mails places where he had forwarded e-mails from his work account to his g-mail account. mr. johnson, the editorial board of "the star ledger" says that christie should resign if it turns out that wildstein is telling the truth. do you think that will happen? >> i really do not know. because i believe as this process goes forward, this investigation goes forward and as the committee that we've put together for the people, the select committee to find out what happened, when they get to their conclusion with the assistance of the legal adviser, then we'll make a determination of what direction we should take or it's up to the governor to determine what he should do. it may take two months, it may

take six months. when you conduct an investigation like this, there's no time limit on it. you go where the facts take you and that's what this committee is going to do. i find it very hard to believe this young lady would run this operation in the same office that the governor is in without his inner circle not knowing it. this is very hard to believe. >> also, steve, it makes you curious to wonder what she might know. she also was very much thrown under the bus in that conversation in the press conference. >> and there's been a really interesting shift in the last week or so. when he first called her in that press conference a liar about 46 times people were like, wow, she just going to sit there and take this? the initial report spoke to a few of her friends it and conveyed the impression that she was horrified that she had done political damage to chris christie, she did not want to be a part of causing any more damage for him.

the early indications is that she was somebody who wanted to still be team christie. that lawyer abrupt id announced a week ago he was no longer representing her and she turned to one of the top defense attorneys in the state, criminal defense attorneys in the state and suggests the possibility that now she's looking at a very different direction, that i've got to save myself here no matter what. >> if you look, mr. johnson, at the level of the kinds of investigations going on, that makes perfect sense because she's potentially embroiled in a number of investigations, a number of accusations frankly. >> that's true. the u.s. attorney is also looking into this. we're not sure where that investigation is. i suspect we'll hear soon. i think the deadline for the subpoenas is monday. >> cris: we'll find o >> we'll find out. >> you had new reporting on your

show this morning in terms of sandy funds. tell us about that. >> there was a story about $6 million in sandy money that christie directed to bellville, new jersey. relative to where the real damage was, bellville was not hit as hard. and christie pushed to have $6 million to go to this senior housing in bellville. the legislature passed and christie signed a law that calls for what's known as an integrity monitor to be assigned to every project over $5 million. a monitor will be filing public reports on what is this project, what's the progress of it, is there any abuse. based on our reporting, the administration says only this month does it have the program to a point where it's begun

assigning monitors. all of that time, the project in bellville, no monitor. the $168 million contract from hgi in the news a few weeks ago, apparently no monitor. a real limitation here if it's allowing projects like this to go under the radar. >> you had christie railing on congress because the money isn't coming fast enough and he's able to put 6 million over here and with the mayor of hoboken, her assertions on your show, don zimmer, that really raises some questions about how he was moving that money around. >> that's the interesting thing. all can i say is that january is when they began assigning monitors. january is the month that the owe boken allegations coming out, the month of hgi and the bellville stuff comes out and now they're telling us we're in place to do monitoring. >> well, now it's february. we'll see what the monitoring and all of this yields.

thank you steve kornacki and assemblyman johnson. >> up next, just weeks ago, chris christie was seen as a top contender for the gop presidential nomination. now what impact could these allegations and the various investigations have on those presidential prospects and what does that mean for the gop? that's next. ♪ today we're going to play a little game. which 4g lte map has the most coverage?

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until recently new jersey governor chris christie was the man to beat in a hypothetical republican primary. he was already becoming a star as governor of the garden state,

but his approval numbers skyrocketed postsandy after showing strength and bipartisan in working with the president during clean-up efforts. even after bridgegate concerns started to mount, he was still considered the man for the job as far as republicans were concerned. he was strong, he was dynamic, he was a winner. but as new allegations of corruption and scandal continue to leak out, his image and poll numbers are starting to take a major hit with the latest polls showing the one-time gop front-runner now trailing mike huckabee and jeb bush. with these new reports, which christie denies, that he may have known about the lane closures as they were happening, one can only wonder how much longer he can hold on. joining me now, former pennsylvania governor ed rendell and bob jordan from "asbury port

press." ed, want to start with you. this was supposed to be the beginning of his time on the national stage and yet if you look at these numbers, he's now -- now we've got 22% view christie favorably down from 33%, 29% view him unfavorably up from 17%. it's not looking good for him. >> it's going to be death by a thousand cuts. every couple of weeks there's going to be a new revelation or a new allegation, which may or may not be true, but it's going to continue to tarnish his image and bring him down. the biggest long-term problem, karen, if the governor knew about this before it happened and he okayed it, i think as a practical matter, he's finished, it might be an impeachable offense. let's assume for the moment, take him at his word, that he didn't know about it beforehand but he knew a traffic jam was

going on endangering public safety for four days in his state and he did nothing to alleviate that, well, here's an activist government who made his bones as an activist governor. had it been me and i found out there was something on george washington bridge, i would have given them 30 minutes to remove the cones or find them all. the regovernor christie would have done the same thing. >> let's say he gets through all of this, this will still dog him on the campaign trail, even if the matter is settled. because there's still too many questions being raised. >> well, sure. if you're a republican running against him in the primaries, you say for four days public safety was in danger -- >> and you didn't know? >> lives could have been lost. and he did nothing. apparently he did know. and he did nothing.

bingo, that's enough. >> you were in the room when christie gave that hour-long press conference. he denied knowledge of the lane yeshiers. what was your reaction after what went on last night. >> at that session that went on for i guess two hours, it was a strategy. you cross back over roads that you already went through and there's a conflict in what you say and it could be parsed the whole two hours. so based on what was revealed yesterday, his press office is still sticking to the story but there's holes. and you can see as governor rendell pointed out, he outlined the reason why governor christie's polling numbers are totally going upside down. >> governor, we also learned

this week and a "new york times" story kind of showed a blueprint of his office and kind of gave us a sense also of the sort of political -- the very strategic political plan that was in place to, you know, a, get him reelected and obviously the kind of plan that looks all the way ahead to 2016. when you look at that, it is really hard to believe that these were just rogue operators. eight sophisticated political racial on the one hand, which i think is a positive but then to say one person was a rogue operator, as a former prosecutor, what would you make of that? >> well, the circumstantial evidence is exactly as you said, karen. first of all, when richard kelly texts "time for traffic problems in fort lee", if i didn't know about it and i'm a port authority guy, my response is what in god's name are you talking about? but wildstein obviously knew because he said "got it."

they obviously planned it in advance. the idea that six people could know about this and they didn't tell him or get his authority, it's a strange probability. part of me thinks this is a shame because i think governor christie did do some good things in his first term in office, took a long stride toward solving some of new jersey's systemic problems. can you go after a political rival in a police call sense but never punish his constituents. >> were you at all surprised to learn about the level? what struck me, it was a sophisticated political operation, better than a lot that i've soon and i've been in politics a long time. were you surprised or did you feel that was governor christie's way? >> no, the governor has always had a tight circle going back to when he was u.s. attorney.

he brought over a lot of people from the u.s. attorney's office to his administration. very tight, efficient circle. and to have it to the point where -- there was so much unknown about the george -- >> governor rendell, the super bowl tomorrow in new jersey, this was supposed to be a big moment on the big stage, also along with his role at the rga, this was a whole roll-out basically. it's not going to be as much fun tomorrow i would suspect. >> no, probably not. the governor has to soldier on, he has to do his job and hope if he's telling the truth that somehow this blows over. but i think in terms of political damage, he's either out or severely wounded,

severely wounded. >> i think you're right. we didn't even get to talk about the cost to the taxpayers, which is also going to be another political liability. governor rendell will hang out with us a little later in the show and talk about 2014 mid terms. >> coming up, the president's latest efforts to create jobs. this is for you.

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violation of his oath. >> i intend to keep trying with or without congress. i'll act on my own! >> legal or not legal? >> absolutely not legal. >> when the president attempts to write laws, that's a form of tyranny we need to fear. >> our president declared he would become america's first dictator. >> it's been kacalled the imperl presidency. they want to reign in what you're trying to do. how do you have respond to that? >> i don't think that's very serious. >> we're going to have much more on the efforts to fight president obama's agenda with some members of congress, even going so far as to threaten to sue him. yes, sue the president of the united states for doing his job. that's next. mom, dad told me that cheerios is good for your heart, is that true? says here that cheerios has whole grain oats

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during his state of the union address earlier this week, president obama made it clear that he is not going to let gop obstruction turn him into a lame duck with three years left in his presidency. calling for a year of, a the president hit the road the next day traveling to maryland, pittsburgh and nashville to roll out initiatives, like establishing a new retirement savings program and other efforts at creating jobs. the republicans want to spend taxpayer dollars to sue the president for doing his job. most of us are used to the republicans suggesting time and again he's overstepping his authority, acting like a dictator or, as ted cruz put it, an imperial president. that is being taken to a whole

new level. one of the people leading the charge is none other than michele bachmann. he said "if he wants to move forward with his unilateral activity, he better be prepared for the lawsuit the united states congress may bring to him. he may declare he's a king, but that's not what he is under the constitution." >> and it is not just bachmann jumping on the lawsuit bandwagon. 81 republican members of congress have signed on to a resolution aimed at stopping the president from taking legal action. what does so-called imperial president say? here's how he responded to cnn's jake tapper. >> i'm not going to make an apology for saying that if i can help middle class families and folks working hard to get into

the middle class did a little bit better, then i'm going to do it. it's a tough argument for the other side to make that not only are they not willing to do anything but they also want me not to do anything. >> joining me, norm ornstein from the american enterprise institute and joy reed. suing the president, joy. it's not just michele bachmann on the fringe. what? >> i think as a political strategy, this doesn't really make sense to me. it essentially is a statement of impotency on the co-equal branch of the government. they've essentially ground the government to a halt. you now essentially have some 80

members of the house declaring that it is they that are the lame ducks, at that they can do nothing to stop the president and his action is on jobs and things that are popular so i don't get it. >> also, it makes them look childish, to be honest. >> exactly. >> norm, a question i have is do they even have standing. in the research that i did, i don't think members of congress actually have standing to sue the president. >> they don't have standing, and this is a frivolous set of actions. that's not to say that some of the things that the president might do can't bring lawsuits. remember that the recess appointment case that the supreme court will soon decide was a case brought by a private business owner, noel canning company because they didn't like actions taken by the national labor relations board. some of the actions the president will take that can affect citizens we could and

probably will see lawsuits filed. but this is just such nonsense and overreaction that it just makes you laugh out loud. this is the first dictator president. so i guess the emancipation proclamation by abraham lincoln doesn't count. or when harry truman desegregated the armed forces or dwight eisenhower issued desegregation. schools. the actions that have been taken by previous presidents so outstrip anything that obama has done that it just is ludicrous. >> you know, joy, to your point, as i mentioned in the opening, this is a name that we've heard for a long time trying to undermine his authority, undermine the president in general. i cannot believe that this is a smart strategy going into 2014 because we're talking about an expense, even though they don't have standing to bring a lawsuit. not to mention they're trying to say they're not obstructionists but this looks obstruction iist.

>> it does but we're still talking about the republicans from the primary season, when they still need to feed the base, where president obama is a horrible dictator is a very important message. as a general election matter, it would make no sense. but as we remain in primary season, there's still a political incentive for republicans to talk this way and to float the ideas, even ludicrous ideas like suing the preds. once weep get past of the majority of the primaries, it will be interesting to see. >> if you look at the letter sent to the president by the house leadership, their governing posture seems to be more conciliatory. >> which is part of why i think this shows more fractures actually. >> exactly. >> norm, if you look at the actions president obama has actually taken, as you pointed out and you compare that to what other presidents has done, he's

raising the minimum wage for federal contract workers, some of them working families for new manufacturing institutes. that all sounds like pretty good stuff to me. >> if you look at the number of executive orders or even other executive actions that barack obama has taken, there are fewer than his predecessors, including george w. bush and most of them are pretty narrow and not sweeping. so, you know, my suggestion for the house republicans is instead of suing, why don't you work with him to make some laws so that we don't have to go this route. now, you know, there's one caveat here. the one area where you could see the president moving very aggressively, pushing the envelope, is on carbon emissions. that's going to be particularly fascinating because the property gave the environmental protection agency, the pred's own executive branch authority

to regulate carbon emissions. if he takes it, you will eye z a lawsuit brought and then it will be interesting to see them turn around and say, wait a minute, that's not true when barack obama is present. >> you've also said if you look at the ways he's used executive orders, as you said, it not as sweeping as some of the other things. i've read that you say it's within the mainstream of how the president and presidents use this executive power. >> definitely. this is no more overreaching and the earlier nonsense that we heard about all the czars that the president had, which was mostly just coordinating in the white house, policies done by a bunch of executive agency. this has not been an overreaches president. he pushed the envelope on recess appointments and probably brought a backlash on that front. on policy terms, he's done

nothing since his -- >> lisa: even john bainor agreed this was -- >> you know, joy, who this benefit, we're talking low-income workers, people doing the cooking and the cleaning. so it makes a lot of sense for fees are part of that base they're talking to. >> and this president has been very reticent to use that executive power. one would argue he hasn't been nearly aggressive enough. he's using it on something that is very powerful, rage be the wage of the workers we're

talking about an economic catastrophe of galactic portions. so this is a president when faced with that kind of scenario is reluctant to use executive power. there's a huge contrast between president obama and the portrayal of him on the right-wing media. they do have to keep it up because the ace needs it. >> still ahead, just wait till you hear what we have on tap for you. and later, the we'll take a look at how both sides are shaping up for the fall election. in the nation, we reward safe driving.

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when we bring you a "disrupt" super bowl special, as seattle and denver prepare to battle it out, we host a taste test of beers hailing from the two states. and in honor of what's been dubbed the "stoner bowl", we'll take a look at the politics of pot and what it means to legalese the efforts of marijuana around the country. coming up next, power plays of 2014. both parties look to hone their message prior to the next elections. >> you invited governor chris christie to a beer summit. >> oh, no, we're all one happy family now. >> it's all under the bridge. >> it's all under the bridge. no pun intended in. >> we're all getting together now, we're going to be a big happy party. [ male announcer ] this is betsy. her long day of pick ups and drop offs begins with arthritis pain... and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief.

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where every second of nbc universal's coverage will be available on every device. on tv, online or streaming on the nbc sports live extra app. beginning february 6th, experience the winter games everywhere. welcome to what's next. comcast nbcuniversal it's february and pundits from across the political

spectrum are already predicting the outcome of the 2014 mid-term elections in november. some ten months before the voters get to have their say. according to one report last week, it said "democrats cede the house to save the senate." and it was suggested democrats should cut their losses and put their money on the senate, unless we have a george washington bridge fiasco in the house, it is not going to change. you never know what voters are going to do. given the fractures in the gop, as illustrated by four responses to the state of the union, a muddled message coming out of the gop house retreat this week and serious funds being raised by conservative groups to challenge gop incumbents, i think they should probably also

hold off on measuring the drapes in the senate majority leader's office as well. joining me is dana milbank and former governor ed rendell is back with us. thanks to you both. you've been through this. isn't it a little early for donors to be getting so skittish? >> sure. five months ago everyone thought the republicans were dead before the implementation of the affordable health care act bombed out so things can change. there's so many outside forces that can change things. i think right now the ball is in the republicans' court, but they could kick that ball away because on minimum wage, extending unemployment benefits and the earned income tax credit, those are three things enormously popular with people everywhere, south, north, republicans, democrats, independents. if they oppose those initiatives, the pendulum swings back and the democrats have

great, great issue to run on. >> part of what i think we'll see from the republicans is to try to nationalize this election. we know they're going to use the affordable care act and obamacare. i think even democrats are going to have to decide are they with that issue, against that issue. i want to show you an ad for ann kirkpatrick, who is running in arizona. >> it's here, in small towns and wide open spaces that ann kirkpatrick listens and learns. it's why she blew the whistle on the disastrous web care web site." >> now that's a democrat running that add. >> uh-oh. well, look, i mean, the good news is if everybody's writing off the democrats for 2014, they've already decided that hillary clinton wins in 2016. >> i guess then we're all out of a job. >> closing down the station, right. >> i guess so. what's the point here. look, i think we tend to live in

the moment in politics and the governor is absolutely correct. it looked like the republicans lost everything in the shutdown and then everything swung back. you have to know how is obamacare going to look in late october. how is the economy going to look in late october? it's a truism to say it's unlikely to say democrats will take the house now or any time in the foreseeable future just because the way the districts are stacked, they have to win in a land slide to win back those 17 seats or so that they need. that's always true. i think anybody who is saying we're giving up on this chamber to deal with another chamber should be taking a bit of a longer view. >> also take a look at this map. the cook political report has identified close to 40 races that lean republican this year. president obama won over a third of those districts in 2012, including all the districts in the cook report. so what should the democratic message be in those districts? i mean, those are some of the

obviously places where it's going to be hard but what should democrats be talking about in those districts? >> it's hard to say for the reason dana just said. we don't know what obamacare will look like in august or what the economy will look like in august. i go back to in almost all of the districts, even in like philadelphia suburban districts that don't have a lot of minimum wage people, moderate republicans, independents and conservative democrats all agree the minimum wage should be raised, they agree we should punish people who are out there looking for jobs by cutting off their unemployment. if republicans make the mistake of falling into that trap, of looking like heartless people that just kater to the rich, i think they have a chance of causing those moderate congressmen to go down. >> dana, one of the things we saw coming out of the gop meeting the house meeting, was a

set of rules on principles and then we've seen ted cruz commenting on it, calling it amnesty. boehner is thinking he's finally got some kind of a deal potentially. on the other hand it just shows the fractures in the party yet again on an issue that is an important issue to the gop not just in 2016 but take a look at this in 2014, latino decisions found it is in their interest to try to get something done. >> but it's very tricky here because in the short term, what they may do is alienate the ted cruz, tea party right and some of those people don't show up on election day in november. as a longer term consideration,

if they don't do something about immigration, if they don't improve their standing with latino voters, they can forget about elections in 2020, 2024 and so on and so on. they've got a short-term consideration with tea party enthusiasm versus the long-term survival of the party. >> i want to take a look at the money now. it's money, mobilization and message. taking a look at the money here, the 2014 filings, the democratic congressional campaign committee is outraising its republican counterpart by a pretty substantial amount. the democratic senator campaign committee is outraising its republican counterpart. it early to make predictions but that's a pretty good start on that front. >> no question. a lot of the republican donors are sick and tired of what's going on with the tea party, the right wing, challenging the

incumbents in the primaries. i think there's real divisiveness and that can be resolved, it can be unified but right now it not in a good place. >> and to that point, we've got a graphic to show you've got rove's groups, american crossroads, conservative victory project and senate conservative funds, what have you, they've raised 20 million combined. it seems like the strategy in the primary season, people are going to have to spend money they might otherwise not want to spend, right? >> they might. and it looks, as happened in the last couple of cycles, that these outside groups because of the campaign finance reforms are likely going to swamp the parties again. we don't really know how much is being spent and how much is being spent in the primaries versus the general election. >> that's true.

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