delicious, but say i press a few out flat, add some beef, sloppy joe sauce and cheese, fold it all up and boom! delicious unsloppy joes perfect for a school night. pillsbury grands biscuits. make dinner pop. hello, disrupters. i'm karen finney. in today's forecast, a super bowl special as we examine how chris christie is using high school memories from the late '70s to defend himself. plus, we'll try some great beers. >> good afternoon, everybody. >> david wilde steen, appointee on the port authority, suggesting chris christie is not telling the truth. >> one of the things they're doing in the governor's office is hitting wilde steen hard. >> they put out this memo basically trashing him. >> five things you should know that includes as a 16-year-old

kid he sued over a local school board election. >> that did not strengthen my faith in their argument. the idea that you're going back to high school in order to make your case. >> the scum of the earth. nobody would ever trust him. by the way, i appointed him to a very, very important policy post. >> there's a lot of focus on the immigration issue. >> it does sound like you could have a meeting of the minds on immigration. >> we don't trust the president to enforce the law. >> the president has to demonstrate frankly the country and the congress can trust him in implementing the laws. >> our job is to step back, let this debate happen in the house. >> can you put something on the president's desk this year that he can sign? >> i don't know the answer to that question. well, chris christie's big super bowl weekend just went from bad to worse. first came those allegations by former port authority official

david wildstein that christie knew about the george washington lane closures. then the governor got booed in times square. so much for basking in the spotlight of new jersey's first super bowl. the christie camp is trying to turn things around by going against offense, releasing a memo to friends and supporters that attacks both him and "the new york times", which broke the story on friday. but with accusations all the way back to high school, the memo is not exactly a model of opposition research. chris christie seems to have some kind of fixation on his teenage years. >> david and i were not friends in high school. we were not even acquaintances in high school. >> also this morning, the house gop just wrapped up their winter retreat, but is immigration reform already doa? we'll take a look at their brand new talking points, which seem to be designed to place the blame for failure squarely on president obama's shoulders. joining me now, john stanton, washington bureau chief for buzz feed, and liz winstead,

co-creator of "daily show." okay, john. you're attacking somebody's credibility and going back to high school. i just want to read -- a 16-year-old, he sued over a local school board election. he was publicly accused by his high school social studies teacher of deceptive behavior. how do you even prove that? did you dig up the social studies teacher? >> this thing has evolved into a weird personal attack back and forth. i'm not sure that the wildstein letter really, you know, puts him in a whole lot of danger necessarily legally. politically, it sort of has. when you start doing things like this, this is just horrible crisis management 101. you should be able to just come out and be like, i didn't do this -- >> which they did on friday. so this was like the second and third answer, liz, right? they had the serious statement. then -- >> then he devolved into tracy

flick. it's really embarrassing. if we were to dig into all of our high school pasts, the next thing is going to be, i'm not sure he even went to our school. he was really a loser. like, hello. >> oh, that's what it seemed like he was saying in the press conference. we well, i was one of the cool kids. john, the thing about it, to your point, i've done opposition research. i've seen good opposition research. it does make it seem like this is potentially a consequence of the fact that chris christie has lost some of that inner l, acir and it makes you think, who's running the ship and thought it would be a good idea to put this out? >> it plays to the idea that he's this bully and a bit immature in how he handles people who oppose him on things. it really does highlight that. i think you're right. i don't think anybody around him who knew what they were doing would say, okay, this is what we're going to do. we're going to find this social studies teacher and highlight this guy. this is the thing that's going

to blow this thing out of the water for you. no. >> also, liz, the thing is, if that's true about this guy, i'm sorry. then why did you create a position for him in the port authority? just a year or so ago, his spokesperson, christie's spokesperson said, quote, he's in there in that job because he's well suited to the task of playing a role in reforming the port authority in accordance with the governor's goals. supposedly he was the governor's eyes and ears. so the guy who was a loser in high school -- >> the big loser who i don't know is going to be the eyes and ears of this very important position that i've carved out. the thing that's so -- that i'm fascinated by is when you watch the clips play out, usually they're shorter on the news we see of him attacking the teacher and throwing that kid out of that town hall. you will -- pay attention. if you let the clip run a little longer, it'll be christie saying something awful and then he waits for the audience response

and then he doubles down. it happens in both of those clips. i bet if you were to dig up other stuff, it's like he says something, you're out of here, and then the crowd goes wild and he walks and stops and then says something more. it's classic bully behavior because there's a performance level to bullying that is really, really just interesting and he plays it up to the nines. it's classic. >> here's what i think one of his biggest problems is. it's always been the fact when you get out of new york, new jersey, maybe the northeast and parts of florida, new jersey politicians and the new jersey schtick he's got going don't play that well. >> it ain't bean bag, right? >> right. you know, it's like the tony soprano guy. nobody really outside of this region appreciates it that much. i think that was going to be his big test, was whether or not he could go down to the south for the 2016 election and shed that. this episode is going to really stick that hard to him, which is going to be difficult for him. >> not only does that not fly,

if you go to a restaurant in minnesota and drop your fork, you don't ask for another one, you take that on yourself and blame yourself. it's like, i guess i'll just sit here then. bully, in some of these passive-aggressive scandinavian states is even worse. in the south, it's like, no. >> interesting there's a story in "the washington post" today that said -- so he was apparently the catcher and he was not going to be starting a his senior year. apparently his parents were thinking about consulting lawyers to see if they could block that so he could be able to play. again, high school we're talking about. really? is that somebody you see as a president? >> well, you know, no, but who knows what other presidents have had their parents done for them when they were in high school. >> all right, all right. >> it's also local politics raised to a national level. this goes on in every local area the in country. people say crazy things about each other. they're like, i remember in eighth grade when you stole my milk money. now it's on the national stage, which makes it feel a little embarrassing to watch. >> it is. don't want to see that.

i want to switch gears because, liz, this morning it was very interesting. the end of last week we heard the republicans might have a framework for immigration reform. they're going to try to maybe do something piecemeal. then within their own party, it started to get attacked. the talking point this morning was, well, we don't trust president obama. we have to verify and then trust him. that's why we've got to go with order at the border first. it was sort of interesting that, you know, again, president obama's been trying to take a step back and give them the room, but attacking the president for not having done anything on the border, i mean, that's ridiculous. the numbers tell an absolutely different story. >> well, i also think, too -- again, going back to you have a problem with women and you have a problem with immigration, and when you focus on we do not trust that you are good enough to come and live here, you know, that is the message. that is what you hear. when you talk about border control first, it is not an inviting place. it is not -- it's like a cave

man dragging tooth and nail to get them to even talk about immigration because they just simply -- the mistrust of what immigration actually means, it's really profoundly a problem. >> it just seems like their go-to message is it's obama's fault, we can't trust him, that's why we're going to take action or obstruct, right? >> the irony is under obama they've had record numbers of deportations. in fact, deportations have gotten to be the point where they say we're focusing on criminals. they do that, but if you get caught with a credit card that will you've gotten with an illegal social security number, you become a felon and you get deported. they're putting people out in mass numbers. they've got tons of people down on the border already. >> and more border agents actually, than ever before. >> and they've been having a lot of human rights questions and people dying. there are a lot of -- all of the things the conservatives want him to do, he's doing on that end. in this case in particular, it's a bit of a weird argument. >> clearly it's what they think

their base will like. attack the president, that's popular with the base. all right. john and liz are both sticking around with me. coming up, from politics to pints. as we get ready for the start of the super bowl, we have an expert with the finest ales from colorado and washington state. the battle of the beers is next. can you start tomorrow? yes sir. alright. let's share the news tomorrow. today we failrly busy. tomorrow we're booked solid. we close on the house tomorrow. i want one of these opened up. because tomorow we go live... it's a day full of promise. and often, that day arrives by train. big day today? even bigger one tomorrow. when csx trains move forward, so does the rest of the economy. csx. how tomorrow moves. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance,

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so super bowl sunday is of course not all about the game. it's also about the beer. how many gallons do you think game watchers will drink across the country today? we went out and asked some disrupters on super bowl boulevard not far from our studio for their guesses. >> i would say that we probably consume 1.9 billion priints of

beer, give or take. >> that number has to be gallons? oh, man. i would say in the billions. >> yeah, i agree. >> not billions. in fact, according to our research, american fans will guzzle an estimated 325 million gallons of beer today. and with both team states, washington and colorado, are no str strangers to beer either. here at "disrupt," we decided to take a break from political predictions and try to make predictions about tonight's game by holding a highly unscientific blind taste test of some of the beers from the states. back with us, john stanton and

liz winstead. this is the first official "disrupt" beer bowl. take it away, justin. tell us what we're doing here. >> all right. so i tried to get together a good list of craft breweries from both washington state and colorado. so i tried to pair up similar styles. >> so what -- i know we want to get to the tasting. >> absolutely. >> so what do we need to be aware of when we're tasting? what are we looking for, smelling for? >> you're smelling for what you like. beer, it's a big preference thing. there's no good, bad beer, in my opinion. it's just what you like. >> so it's like sex? >> he just said everything -- if you replace the word sex. it's not really bad, it's a preference. >> let's go to round one. starting here? >> yeah, we're going to start out with two american pale ales. one from washington. this one is -- i'm not going to

tell you where it's from. >> what's the beer called? >> this is the red hook audible ale. >> i think i might know where that's from. i'm going to taste it anyway. all right. now what do we have? >> the next one is the left-hand stranger. >> can you imagine if this was the two pots from the two different states, how different that segment might be. someone suggested that would be a good twitter handle. i like the first one better. >> you like the first one? the audible ale? >> audible ale. >> all right. we want to know the state? >> yeah, tell us. >> that's one for washington state. >> all right. next, what do we have? >> so these aren't quite the same style, but they're close. they're two classic craft beer styles. we have a red ale. it's actually a red ipa. i'm not going to tell you the brewery, since apparently i gave it away. then we have a brown ale as

well. >> so we have a red and a brown. >> a red and a brown. >> all right. look at all the pretty colors. >> i hope someone is photographing this crazy segment. you're an incredible human being. >> this is one of my big ideas. >> uh-oh, i drank this one first. okay. >> i like the brown one better. >> you like the brown one better? that's ellie's brown ale. >> i don't think i like either of these, so i have to pick one. is that bad? >> okay. we only have a few minutes. you just have to pick one. >> i'm going with this one. it tastes less like hair. >> okay. well, like he said, it's what you like. john, how about you? >> i like the red one better. >> i say that round goes to the red one. >> all right. that is also from washington state. >> oh! >> that's elysium brewing company. >> rainbow of colors. all right. what's next? >> next up we're going into the

milk stouts. >> i made a personal request for these. >> for the milk stout? >> i read a little something about it. sounded like it tasted real good. rnl >> are you irish? >> half, yeah. >> the stout part probably intrigued you. >> you'll see when you taste it. >> are these two different stouts? i didn't listen. >> they both contain milk stout. >> so you can give this to infants? >> no, you cannot. always remember drink responsibly, people. >> always remember, bad idea to poke the immediacomedian on the when there's drinking. >> one of those is the split shot espresso. >> this one. >> you'll probably notice. the other is just a standard american milk stout. >> i think i like the espresso. >> me too. >> more of a smokey flavor going there. >> and? >> so once again we have washington state. >> oh, all right.

richard sherman, we're doing this for you. >> if somebody from my high school, we had to do research, they would find this situation. >> well, we wanted to play quarters. we didn't have enough time. this is our last round. what do we have? >> here we have two very rare beers, actually. they're both bourbon barrel aged beers. dark beers. one is a bourbon barrel aged imperial stout. the other is a winter warmer. >> what's the difference? >> stouts do tend to be just a little bit darker. winter warmers can be more -- they can be anywhere from a brown to sort of a dark black color. they're usually higher alcohol volume. >> i'm going to taste these, but i'm thinking that if you're going to try to make it through the whole super bowl, this is probably not what you want to be drinking the whole time. you want to start -- >> yeah, definitely. the uncle jacob stout, which is the imperial bourbon barrel age state clocked in at 17.4% alcohol. >> that tastes like hippie.

>> tastes like soy sauce. >> that happens a lot with those. >> i think the second one. >> you prefer the second one? >> kaind of smells like a wee-we pad. can i say that on tv? >> no, but you just did. >> puppy bowl is on tonight. in honor of the puppy bowl. see how i tie it all together? i'm going with the one that smells less like puppy bowl. >> is that the first or the second? >> this one. you tell me. >> that would be the -- actually, no, i think that's the first one. >> the soy sauce. you like the soy sauce. >> i did not like the soy sauce. >> once again, we have washington state. >> it's a shut-out. shut-out for washington state. >> that was fremont brewing's bourbon barrel winter warmer. they age it in bourbon barrels. >> i'm sure people will enjoy that. particularly with all the snow we've been having and the cold weather. sounds like that's the perfect -- >> and these will warm you up,

no question. >> so i tweeted out to people to let them know we're going to be doing this. i got a lot of feed back, even for who has better water for beer making. it came out kind of even. >> both states have really great water from the rivers and everything they have in the states. obviously, when it comes to brewing, you want to treat your water most of the time. >> unlike west virginia, sure. >> grad we'lad we're not having beer tasting. >> both states, amazing states for craft beer. >> that is like a hot new thing, right? the sort of microbrews, craft beers. when i was in high school, since we were talking about high school, it was like coors and bud. >> hamms. >> schlitz. >> that's the worst. >> i like that beer. >> okay. we're going to have to end this segment because there's a lot of beer here. >> we have a lot to drink. >> exactly. thank you to our expert, justin,

and my fellow beer tasters. they're troopers to share this experience with me. coming up, from pints to pot. how marijuana laws are taking shape across the country, including today's two super bowl home states, colorado and washington. that's next. [ coughs, sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is.

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better things than the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. if you're trying to manage your ra, now may be the time to ask about xeljanz. xeljanz (tofacitinib) is a small pill, not an injection or infusion, for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz is an ra medicine that can enter cells and disrupt jak pathways, that comes with ra. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers have happened in patients taking xeljanz. don't start xeljanz if you have any kind of infection, unless ok with your doctor. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz, and routinely check certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common,

and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you are pregnant, or plan to be. taken twice daily, xeljanz can reduce the joint pain and swelling of moderate to severe ra, even without methotrexate. ask if xeljanz is right for you. tonight isn't just about football and beer, it's also about marketing. with companies willing to shell out about $4 million for 30 seconds likely to get more eyeballs watching than any other night of the year. to give you a little preview, we've chosen one of my own favorites from this year's lineup. ♪

♪ may you only need the light when it's burning low ♪ ♪ only miss the sun when it starts to snow ♪ ♪ only know you love her when you let her go ♪ ♪ only know you've been high when you're feeling low ♪ ♪ only hate the road when you're missing home ♪ ♪ only know you love her when you let her go ♪ ♪ and you let her go and you let her go, oh ♪ ♪ when you let her go >> so take that, doritos. try and top the puppy and pony love. and now for your disrupter of the week. in honor of super bowl sunday, our disrupter of the week is a football player and his team. earlier this week, a 19-year-old

freshman kicker told his coach, his team, and the rest of the world that he's bisexual and has a boyfriend, making him the first college football player to come out while playing. he said he hoped doing show would reassure other lgbt athletes it's okay to be who they are. he said, quote, i hate the stereotypes that go along with liking the same sex. you don't have to follow the stereotype to be this way. i made the decision that if i could help anyone else avoid feeling the way i felt, i would. he is also a brave young man, but his team' action really caught our eye. one said, quote, we care about conner as an individual, and that's just a part of him. we're going to support him in that fashion but also we care about him as a player. no bullying. no outcry. just acceptance for a friend and colleague. that is disruptive. so for that, we name conner and the rest of his team our

disrupters of the week. don't forget, you can always nominate a disrupter in your community. just tweet us @msnbcdisrupt or find us on facebook. we'll be right back. is this the bacon and cheese diet? this is the creamy chicken corn chowder. i mean, look at it. so indulgent. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups. i took medicine but i still have symptoms. [ sneeze ] [ male announcer ] truth is not all flu products treat all your symptoms. what?

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that's powerful. verizon. act now and get a free droid mini, plus $100 to spend. tonight's big game may be the first cold-weather outdoor super bowl, but it's also the first to ever feature two teams from state where is recreational pot is legal. and that's why some people are calling this matchup between the seattle seahawks and the denver broncos the stoner bowl. with colorado now issuing licenses for legal marijuana stores and washington set to start soon, we're witnessing a seat change in america's attitudes about pot. medical marijuana laws have been enacted in 20 states, with the district of colombia, with more set to consider it this year. in the latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll, a majority of americans said they support making recreational marijuana legal. even the president compared the

use to alcohol. >> i stand by my belief, based on the scientific evidence, that marijuana for casual users, individual users, is subject to abuse just like alcohol is. >> so in honor of the first stoner bowl in american history, we wanted to look at how washington state and colorado are doing as they move forward with legalization and what the implications are for other states who are considering following suit. here to help us out, a reporter for nbcnews.com and author of "the last pirate." thanks to all of you for being here. >> grad to lad to be here. >> i want to start with you, tony. public opinion about marijuana has really shifted, i think, over somewhat of a short period of time. in "the new yorker" article out a couple weeks ago, president obama said, as has well been documented, i smoked pot as a

kid. i view it as a bad habit and a vice. not very different from the cigarettes i smoked as a young person up through a big chunk of my adult life. i don't thinks it is more dangerous than alcohol. what's your reaction to that? >> well, critics have pointed out that obama is talking about a different kind of marijuana than we have today. it's true most of the weed in the '80s and '70s was brought in from colombia or jamaica. now it is grown indoors, optimal conditions, and the thc content is higher. his comments may not necessarily apply to people using what's available now. >> and betty, how did you convince non-pot smokers -- i was interested in how you ran that campaign and messaged to people about marijuana because some people have preconceived ideas. there were some who you knew would be open to your message. >> sure. we couldn't simply rely on people who use marijuana to legalize marijuana for adult use in colorado. so we had to talk to folks about the social justice implications

of marijuana prohibition, the criminal justice implications, the harm that it takes on our communities, and of course the obvious fact, that marijuana is objectively safer than alcohol. >> and i think we've got some full screens to look at. 8 million pot arrests in the united states between 2001 and 2010, 8% for possession. $3.6 million spent on enforcement in 2010. this issue of the racial disparity is one we've been talking about quite a bit in the context of sentencing roles and new guidelines, even with regard to sentencing of young people. so was that the strongest message that people responded to? >> it was tremendously important to talk about that. marijuana prohibition takes an enormous toll on every community, but even more so on communities of color. it's oftentimes referred to -- in fact, our broader drug war is oftentimes referred to as the new jim crow because of the disproportionate impact on communities of color.

>> hillary, one of the main selling points was that taking weed out of the black market and taxing it would actually generate revenue for the states. but on the other hand, you don't want to make those taxes so high that people still would prefer to sell it illegally. how do you balance that? >> you know, karen, that's a really good question. states are continuing to debate that in their own legislatures and amongst themselves. they really have to take some time and see how the market plays out with the effects of the tax structure. you do have to tax it at some level to be satiable for states. that sweet spot number is slightly elusive at this time because we haven't had the experience yet. >> i want to ask each of you this question because one of the things i thought was interesting in doing research on this is that obviously you have state laws that are different than the federal laws. i would imagine both in colorado and washington sort of navigating that as you try to set up, you know, sort of the appropriate protocols about who can sell it and how you sell it and how much and, you know, how

you price it. so betty, i'm going to start with you. talk about some of those issues that you were navigating. >> the department of justice said last august that they had eight clear enforcement prioritieprioritit priorities that they wanted to see enforced. we've been working with communities to make sure those issues are addressed. additionally, we do have people paying a lot of attention to how federal law is moving forward. there are some serious challenges in the conflicts between state and federal law that will eventually need to be resolved. >> tony, for example, one of the issues which was interesting is a lot of banks won't service some of the pot businesses because it would violate federal law. so there's a lot done in cash transactions because they can't have a bank account. >> it's not only banking. the awkward interval we're in where states are saying, yes, and the federal level is saying, no, creating problems.

banking tax problems. you pay a lot more in taxes if you're a marijuana shop. some security firms, traditional firms, won't do business with you. armored car companies won't do business with you. it's hard to find insurance you can afford. you pay higher rent. all of those are huge problems for this experiment because it leads to a higher overhead cost. if the price it too high, the black market continues to flourish. >> hillary, how do those things work themselves out in practical terms? >> you're going to have to have a lot of resilient entrepreneurs with a lot of patience. that's a tall order. nonetheless, working with their state legislatures to try to find these bridge-the-gap methods to accommodate doing business. these states cannot tell these entrepreneurs to go out and behave like real businesses knowing they can't get bank accounts or financing or an equitable tax structure. in the interim, congress, representatives, they have got to work together in a bipartisan way to come up with remedies that create exceptions for these

state licensed businesses. >> and betty, you know, how do you educate the public to be responsible about how to use marijuana? i mean, you know, with the legalization of alcohol, we have whole campaigns around eninsuring eninsure i -- ensuring -- you know t drive responsibly. how do you approach that with marijuana, given there's such a variation in terms of the amount people might smoke or the kind they might smoke? this is what i have been told. but i'm just curious how you navigate some of that. >> here's one of the greatest parts about ending marijuana prohibition when it comes to the ways that marijuana can impact people's lives, individual lives negatively, which are very limited. we get to start having an open dialogue in these states about how you use marijuana responsibly, how you ensure that you're safe to drive, how you figure out how much of that chocolate you should eat. and if you eat a little too much

of it, what should you do. these are all the sorts of things we teach each other socially with alcohol. it's something that we can teach each other socially and also through effective educational campaigns at the point of sale with marijuana. one of the really tough things, though, is that consumers, as much as anyone else, are now sta stakeholders in marijuana policy reform. they have a responsibility to help us make sure we're enforcing those eight important priorities. >> tony, i know you've written about the mainstreaming of medical marijuana in colorado and this idea that you have these sort of entrepreneurs specially who are changing some of the stereotypes about who is a marijuana user. >> well -- >> or no? >> i don't know if they're changing the stereotypes about who is a marijuana seller. you know, they are not street corner dealers. they have deep pockets themselves. they have incredible business savvy. the question, i think, in colorado is whether or not these

incredibly accomplished and effective business people market on a larger scale. the relevant obama comment that i think we should mention is that he is worried about big business becoming part of the marijuana environment with huge resources to market to the country at large, increasing use, perhaps increasing social costs. that's what the patrick kennedy, anti-marijuana group is saying. to have those words come out of the president's mouth is worrying. it's additionally worrying when you have very good business people who want to make money in these states. >> to that point, a lot of professional investors are trying to get into this game. they see an opportunity, right? they want to get in on the ground floor, as it were. so how are they navigating these issues? >> they don't have a good way to go forward. you can't buy traditional stock. >> how do you invest in that, right? >> a lot of investors don't like the amount of paperwork involved. it's a real top to bottom. >> but it sounds like it's going

to be some patience, working out some of those issues. well, thank you so much for joining me. thank you tony, hillary and betty. ahead, the 1700-mile, $5.4 billion project now on the president's agenda. will he okay the controversial keystone pipeline? that's coming up. >> he laid out his view on this last summer. if it should go forward, it should not significantly exacerbate the climate crisis in this country. hey kevin...still eating chalk for heartburn? yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! still running in the morning? yeah. getting your vegetables every day?

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department issued a report which found that approval of the keystone xl pipeline a $5.4 billion project that would carry more than 830,000 barrels of oil into the united states every day, would not, quote, significantly worsen carbon pollution. their reasoning, the dirty tar sands crew the pipeline would carry into our country would likely find its way to the market anyway. if not by pipeline, then by rail. the project has been a bitterly divisive issue stretching beyond partisan lines. this latest news could go a long way to clear a path for its approval. but both sides of the debate have found a point to hang their hat on with opponents noting

that the report does say the total direct and indirect emissions associated with the pipeline would contribute to cumulative groebl greenhouse gas emissions. the next steps rest with secretary of state john kerry, who will seen counsel from other agencies and make his final recommendation to the president. joining me now to discuss is msnbc contributor and washington post opinion writer jonathan capehart. hello. >> hello, karen. >> obviously this is a decision that feels like it's been kicked down the road study after study. we're getting close to a point where the president's really going to have to make a decision. one of the things that strikes me on this is it is a very contentious decision. parties on both sides have very strong feelings about it. some of the progressive groups like sierra club and others have organized things, over a couple thousand events tomorrow calling on the president not to approve this deal. so how does he make a decision in that climate? >> well, look, as you said in

the intro to this segment, the ball now is in secretary kerry's court. he's going to be kicking the can down the road a little bit longer in that he's going to be consulting with the justice department, the environmental protection agency, and a whole bunch of other stakeholders, if you will, who would have some input into how he would decide what happens with keystone and then what recommendation he would make to the president in terms of his decision. >> but i think isn't there an expectation that since john kerry has worked on climate change throughout his career that he is someone who would -- i think there's an expectation that perhaps he would not be for this plan. >> well, look, it's one thing to be a senator and facing these issues and being secretary of state where the stakes are so much higher and the considerations are so much more involved and much more complex. also keep in mind, it's not just secretary of state kerry who's been involved in climate change. president obama is no slacker when it comes to global warming.

so when the president makes this decision, it's going to be a very considered position. >> so we actually have some sound from white house chief of staff dennis mcdonough this morning from "meet the press." he kind of sort of seems to punt on the issue. let's take a listen. >> we have one department with a study. now we have other expert agencies, the epa and many others, the energy department, who have an opportunity to take a look at this and make their decisions. the president wants to make this decision based on the best analysis and most sound science. >> he's sort of, you know, talked about the process, not the actual politics or the actual issue itself. one of the areas where the president, though, i think is getting a good deal of pressure is within the democratic party. you've got senators like landrieu and pryor for whom approval of this project would be a good thing. they have tough elections coming up. >> right. i'm so glad you played that

mcdonough clip. when the chief of staff says that the president wants to basically -- what he's saying is base this decision on evidence. of course, if the -- what the epa says, what the justice department says, what secretary kerry says will play -- will factor into what kind of decision the president makes. the fact that right now the reports are coming out that this would not contribute, you know, majorly to greenhouse gas emissions is a point in the project's favor. politically speaking, you are right. when itsenators landrieu and pryor, alaska, louisiana, and arkansas, the political stakes are very, very high here. if the democrats are worried about hanging on to the senate, the political pressure on the president to just that alone, to approve the pipeline will be very, very intense. >> but also, i will say opponents of the proposal do point out that while the report

kind of on the one hand says it's not significant, it does talk about sort of global -- a global impact. again, i think people see that as, you know, that kind of goes to the president's standard that he himself set. i think that's where you're going to see the tension. >> one other thing the report says is if the pipeline is not built, this oil is going to go to market and most likely by rail, and rail transport of oil isn't exactly the safest way to transport that oil. >> well, that's exactly right. you know, jonathan, there's a lot of concerns about what would the impact then be on the communities that are impacted, whether it is a pipeline, frankly, or railway. i want to shift gears a little bit because the other, you know, meme we keep hearing again and again and again is this lawless presidency of barack obama. you know, it's one we've heard for several years, and it's one that's really aimed at undermining the legitimacy of

this president time and time again. >> well, look, yes, they've been going at it, trying to find something, anything, say something, anything that would sort of chip away at his legitimacy. if there's one thing you can sea about this president and his administration, it's that they don't listen to that noise. and they let the facts speak for themselves. when his critics, republicans, were saying he was being lawless by saying he was going to go around congress, the very congress that's made it clear from moment one that they didn't want to work with him to begin with, you know, charts came out showing just where does president obama fall in the row of presidents who have used executive orders to go around congress, and he is last. >> but of course, they never let facts get in the way, jonathan. >> well, no, never. >> and we have some sound actually from paul ryan this morning. he talked about the lawless presidency, but one of the other concerns that both he and eric cantor talked about was the

scope. obviously, again, if you look at the scope of how executive orders have been used in the past as opposed to how the president is using it, again, he's very much in the mainstream. let's listen to paul ryan. >> we have an increasingly lawless presidency where he is actually doing the job of congress, writing new policies and new laws without going through congress. presidents don't write laws. congress does. >> jonathan, congress writes laws, but when they don't, somebody's got to do something. >> exactly. i mean, you're looking at a president who's in his second year of his second term who's done battle with a congress that doesn't want to work with him. at a certain point, the president and his administration has to look and say, look, we were sent here to do something. we were sent here to accomplish something. so what can we do that doesn't force us to deal with congress because they've made it clear they don't want to work with us. >> also, don't you think part of the strategy here is that, you know -- i mean, the president is out there, you know, talking

about ideas, talking about what he can do. there are certainly things he can't do without congress, but trying to get done the things he can do. seems to me the strategy here is to put pressure on congress. they should be embarrassed at the fact they are the least productive congress in the history of the country. >> yes, well, what the president's doing is, again, what he's always done, looking like the most reasonable person in the room. he's fighting congress because he's trying to close the income gap, trying to get people back to work, trying to create jobs, trying to get them health care, trying to do all the things that the american people sent him to washington to do in 2008 and 2012, and yet the message still hasn't gotten to congress. >> well, hopefully they'll get it. if they don't, he has his own message. jonathan, thank you so much. that does it for me. you can find us on facebook and tweet us @msnbcdisrupt. i'll see you back here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. eastern.

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