stupidity that was shown here. >> which still has a long way to go if you want to be the governor and the leader of this country. >> i had no knowledge or involvement in this issue, in its planning or its execution. >> basically placing his entire political future on the unequivocal statement that he knew nothing about the ft. lee george washington bridge lane closures. >> the official at the center of the scandal bridget kelly is taking the fifth and refusing to turn over any documents. >> i know everything i needed to know from a point of employment for bridget kelly when she didn't tell me the truth and i fired her.

good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. chris christie and bridge kelly are playing some serious defense over the bridgegate scandal. she's his former deputy chief of staff who wrote in a message, time for some traffic problems in ft. lee. it snowballed from there. new jersey democrats have issued subpoenas for kelly to turn over her documents and her electronic devices. one goal is to find out if governor christie was involved with the lane closures. on monday, her lawyer said she will not comply with the subpoena saying unfettered access to her information could reveal highly confidential communications not related to the bridge scandal. christie is just fine with kelly pleading the fifth. >> these people all have lawyers

now. i would hope they would share information with us, but i also understand people have rights. if folks give it to us, great. if they don't, i don't think any of us can be critical of someone exercising their constitutional rights. >> who needs an attorney if you didn't do anything wrong? of course the governor respects kelly's rights. if christie was involved, there's no doubt kelly is protecting the governor. new jersey democrats are not happy with kelly pleading the fifth. they are considering legal options with respect to enforcing the subpoena. i think her refusal to cooperate only strengthens david wildstein's position to make a deal. he's the only person who has turned on christie at this point. christie is still out defending himself. on monday night, he said he was

not involved with the lane closures. >> the most important issue is did i know anything about the plan to close these lanes, did i authorize it, did i know about it, did i approve it, did i have any knowledge of it beforehand? the answer is still the same. unequivocally, no. >> later on in the interview, things got very interesting. christie's office originally denied any knowledge of the lane clotur cloturw closures. >> i had no knowledge of this, the planning, the execution, or anything about it. i first found out about it after it was over. >> on monday night, christie might have contradicted that statement. the governor said he may have been aware of traffic issues at

the time. >> the first time this really came into my consciousness as an issue was when pat foye, the executive director of the port authority's e-mail was leaked to the media. that was the first time i got a sense that there might be some issue here. i know there were press accounts about traffic issues up there. if someone read that or said something to me about traffic issues up there, it wouldn't have been meaningful to into because i didn't know that there was any problem up there because i didn't know we had actually closed lanes up there before that. >> the e-mail christie was talking about was published by "the wall street journal" on september 1st. christie is not being clear on when he learned of any of this. now the governor is saying he didn't know about the closures

before they happened. >> to make clear to everybody in the midst of, you know, all the things that were reported over the weekend that nobody has said i knew anything about this before it happened. i think that's the most important question. >> this scandal is growing worse by the day for the governor of new jersey. for the first time, christie is changing his wording on the bridgegate scandal. i think the fact wildstein says evidence exists, through his attorney saying that, is the lynch pin to this entire investigation. as for bridget kelly, it seems to me it is a stall tactic. why the fifth if there's no problem? in there's the truth there's no scandal, who needs an attorney? tonight's question -- do you think bridget kelly is protecting chris christie?

text a for yes. text b for no. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. for me, let me bring in the ring of fire radio host. good to have you with us tonight. there's a lot to read into this. you have people all over the place taking the fifth. you have chris christie using a little bit different wording in interviews right now. i don't know why he did the interview on radio. will bridget kelly get away with pleading the fifth? is this just a stall tactic or is this going to be her position? what do you think? >> if i'm the lawyer, i want to stall this as much as i can. it's a great stall tactic, but subpoenas are very scary things. they're the first step in trapping coconspirators if there's criminal conduct. if i'm her lawyer and i'm advising her the best i can and there's no conflict of interest,

begin with the fifth. we need time to figure out what's going on. certainly, don't commit to anything right now where it comes to defending this governor. down the road, if prosecutors get involved and they're doing their job, the textbook approach to this is to build a case from the bottom up. the message you get with subpoenas, even at this level -- this is not criminal at this level, but prosecutors are looking at what's happened. but the message with the subpoena, ed, is be concerned. when you start building from the bottom, you start looking for frightened and disgruntled employees who are willing to talk. already you have wildstein. i would say wildstein is one of those disgruntled employees. you have kelly. she's an unknown. you ha you have bill stepien, who has now pled the fifth. everything is happening from a

bottom up kind of analysis of how to you start a real investigation. it seems to be starting on its own. >> it seems to me that david wildstein is in a better position today now that bridget kelly has come out and pleaded the fifth. obviously, she's a key player in all of this and she was the one that was fired. she's at the center of all of this. if she's going to plead the fifth, does that strengthen wildstein's position to do a deal with the prosecutor? >> i think it does. look a potential criminal investigation, if it's down the road, sometimes it feels like musical chairs. the worst thing you can do is be the last person standing in those musical chairs. we see everybody, their lawyers are advising them on how to adjust to these musical chairs. if i'm wildstein's lawyer, i'm

telling you now's the time to go forward with the investigatievi. this is the classic anatomy of a bottom up investigation. it's happening by way of democratic committee members. at this point, i don't know whether prosecutors are overseeing this, but probably that is going on to some degree. >> so how are they going to get to the bottom of this if everybody is pleading the fifth? are they going to wait for somebody like david wildstein to step forward and what does that mean? >> evidence exists means come talk to me. that's what it means. look, i have asked them to pay for my legal defense. they've refused to do that. evidence exists means come talk to me and i might give you more information. >> okay. >> this lawyer is representing

his own client. he's not representing chris christie here. >> how are they going to get to the bottom of this if nobody steps forward? prosecutors might be happy everybody is taking the fifth. >> somebody will move forward. the woman who just resigned. she hasn't pled the fifth yet, but somebody said it is time to get out of here. this is no coincidence. there's very have you coincidences when you start seeing something like this unfold. >> mike, let's get inside the head of governor chris christie for a moment. he's a former prosecutor. he knows how this arena works. if he is involved here, if, if, if, and it eventually points to

him, he must be walking a tight rope here that his people are going to cover for him and this isn't going to be a moment of downfall. he goes out and does a two-hour press conference. he goes on radio again. he's holding his line. what do you make of that? where is his head at if he's involved here? >> there's nothing equivocal about what he's said at that point. i'm the governor, and i said it. i'm the governor, and i have all of this -- i'm a step above you where it comes to believability. >> yeah. >> he has to be able to deny, deny, deny. unless documents come forward or unless we see a character say, you know what? this is ridiculous. we talked about it in the office. we talked about it over drinks. he knew about it. he may feel very comfortable

taking that position until that happens. this is where he started when he was asked the question whether or not your staff was involved, and he unequivocally said, no, they weren't involved. we've seen it before. the world doesn't operate in a vacuum. >> mike, thank you for your joining us tonight. i want to bring in liouis greenwald. did his interview yesterday kind of muddy the waters? >> it is very interesting sitting in our position as members of the investigative committee. i'm sure you can appreciate. you hear one version versus another. we have to take and assume his statements are true and he is speaking honestly just as we

have to assume that mr. wildstein and other witnesses are all telling the truth. if their stories conflict and there are other witnesses and people who have discovery that choose one side or the other to start to make the case and if there is evidence from documentation that proves one side or the other -- i listened to the governor's statements the other day. it was very interesting. >> how hard is this going to be if everybody is taking the fifth? where does that take you and your committee? >> ed, mr. wildstein took the fifth at the committee and then he released a statement. it's a slow process. it's a methodical process. he is interacting and

interfacing with counsels who have received the subpoenas. there's a professional dialogue going back and forth. we have started to receive information. extensions have been provided as is custom in a case like this. it will lead to who should come in and testify and when and why and if there are other people we should reach out to. everything they say and everyone says is true. you made the point he is counting on everybody protecting him. he may be counting on the fact he's telling the truth. >> very fair and profound point. no question about that. i want to focus in on wildstein's letter. what does it mean you hear the term "evidence exists"? >> well, as a lawyer, i would

say the evidence exists that he either has documentation, a tape, a text, a phone message, something that is hard evidence that he can present, or a witness to a conversation. but we don't know what it means right now. we haven't heard anything further from mr. wildstein. what i would say to you is, again, the same truth we afford to the governor is what we must afford to mr. wildstein. as the investigation progresses, we'll determine who is telling the truth and where was the abuse of power, where did it begin, and how deep did it go? >> finally, are you comfortable with the explanation and the timing of events that the governor presented last night in his radio interview? it seems if i could render personal judgment here that the two didn't exactly jive.

that there was some room there that the verbage was different. how would you characterize it? >> i have to look at this through the lens of the investigative committee. there are biases and individual versions of the truth. >> okay. >> the governor parsing his words are trying inin ining oro clarify his statement? >> i appreciate your time tonight. thanks so much. new jersey assemblyman who is on the investigative committee. share your thoughts with us on twitter @edshow and on facebook. pipe dreams. we tackle the keystone pipeline debate. two people against it. i'm for it. all i want is the facts.

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draft. >> i've played second base. >> the seahawks star quarterback has all his bases loaded. >> i'm sure i'll hang out some. i love baseball. but football is where my first love is. the number two trender, not a fluke. the women's rights activist takes a step towards a run for congress. >> it looks like she's going to throw her hat into the ring. >> she has tremendous national name recognition. >> if she runs successfully, she'll take the seat of congressman henry waxman. and today's top trender, pet project. >> you take care of us. >> and i will hug him and pet him and squeeze him. >> now it's our turn to take care of you. >> a new ad campaign urges pets

to get young people ensured. >> enroll today. >> but it's a talking dog. >> you can get covered and still buy me treats. enroll today. joining me tonight is connie shultz. connie, great to have you with us again on the program. >> thanks. >> i'm curious. your thoughts on this ad. there's a real demographic push that's being made now to get young adults, and that ad right there seemed to be borderline juvenile. it's almost as if they're trying everything they possibly can to get people to sign up. do you think this will have an impact? >> you could have pets singing

and talking in an ad. with the rollout, 60% of women in some survey said they would risk their lives to save their pets. if nothing else, it is nice to have a little levity to this to get their attention and to maybe get them to enroll. >> i hope it does. there's new information out today from the congressional budget office. the affordable care act will lead to a decline in full-time positions, almost 2 million by the year 2017. the right wing has jumped all over this. this says it's going to be from workers supplying less hours because they're not going to have to work longer to pay for the premiums because the cost is going to come down. how do you see this cbo report? it's almost like it's a report in social engineering here. i don't know how they would have come out with a number like

this, but is this somewhat of a roadblock in the pitch to get people to sign up? >> i don't think it will deter people from signing up. what i saw on facebook and twitter was these figures blowing up this afternoon. this is a beginning. not the end of this law. we had to start somewhere. we don't know yet if these numbers are going to bear out. we don't know yet a lot of things in terms of what needs to be adjusted, what needs to be fixed in the law. any major reform requires additional legislation down the road. we had to start somewhere. i'm really glad we started here. >> saving people's lives is a great start. making sure people don't go bankrupt for getting care is a also a great start. i keep hearing politicians say, we've got to fix it. fix what?

everything has to be fixed. these are two major heavy lifts in the health care industry. republicans still fighting the health care law in the state of arkansas where state republicans do not want to accept federal money to keep the medicaid expansion running next year, which could effect 85,000 people in the state who have signed up. is this the new attack by the gop? is this going to flourish? what do you think? >> i think they go after people in poverty because they know they're not supporting them anyway. what they're counting on is they also won't vote. so many people who do have access to health care won't care about these people. you look at the polling. increasingly it looks to me more and more republicans around the country, not republican

legislators, actually do care about people in poverty. >> interesting. in the state of virginia, republicans are embracing the medicaid expansion. a new poll shows 55% of the state's republicans back the expansion as long as it is federal funded. what does this split say about the gop? >> i think that's right. a lot of these republicans who are advocating to strip these rights, to strip this coverage to people who are living in poverty, also claim to be god-fearing americans. i was raised by a born-again christian. being a christian means fixing yourself and helping others. not the other way around. i truly wonder what they imagine

that conversation would be with their creator. coming up, a reality check on the proposed keystone xl pipeline. later, a voesk -- next i'm taking your questions on ask ed live. we're right back. the new guy is loaded with protein!

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obama was still elected tells me people have a lot of faith in things that can get done. the real challenge for democrats and the progressive movement is the house. there's some heavy democrat voters that are saying we're going to focus on the senate. conditions are bad for the republicans right now. some good things can happen and some seats can be picked up enough to get the majority back. yes, i do think the folks are paying attention to the issues. our next question, do you think the gop will vote on anything of substance before the midterm primaries? i've talked to a lot of lawmakers about this. they think maybe immigration reform. i think not.

let me go home with some good economic news because right now the republicans seem to be against every thing. i think they're going to want to go home next august being able to say something positive, saying that we were actually for something and did something for the workers in this country. i think they're going to pull it out. i think minimum wage has a chance before the midterms. stick around. rapid response panel coming up next. we're right back. stocks gained back some ground after yesterday's selloff. the dow adds 72. the nasdaq rises 34. orders for manufactured goods fell less than expected in december. home prices slipped in december, but for all of 2013 they were up 11%. and jc penny says sales rose 3% in the fourth quarter.

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welcome back to "the ed show." after the state department issued their long awaited study on the keystone xl pipeline on friday, the debate over construction has only intensified. >> you're expanding development in one of the most carbon intensive dirty fuel sources in the planet. >> it's environmental safe and secure. it's good quality, paying jobs. >> it was going to create 250,000 jobs. at this point, they've gotten down to 35 jobs. >> so this has just become about politics. >> potentially 50 leaks over the

course of the project. >> we're talking about tax revenue for the state of nebraska and the local communities that this pipeline is going to go through. >> it's time to build it. >> now, i want the audience of "the ed show" to know i've never really had a position on this pipeline until now. it's not about jobs. it's about safety. and it's about energy independence. now, i know my stance on the keystone xl pipeline is going to make some liberals hot under the collar. that's fine. i can take it. it's part of the territory. i welcome the debate. i want you to take a look at these numbers and tell me where we're going to go from here. last november, almost 800,000 barrels of oil a day were shipped by rail. huge oil find for america. according to the association of american railroads, the number

of rail cars carrying crude oil on major freight railroads in the united states is projected to have grown by more than 6,000% between the years 2007 and 2013. folks were pulling american oil out of the ground. there's an oil boom. the current infrastructure wasn't built to handle this kind of production. as a result, we've seen train derailments and explosions. folks, what i'm most concerned about here in this debate is safety. according to the state department study that was released on friday, if we fail to build the pipeline and ship another 830,000 barrels per day on the rails, it would result in an estimated 49 additional injuries and six additional fataliti fatalities. this is a real human impact. when it comes to the pipeline, most opponents want to focus on

the environmental impact. i understand that. i have some numbers for that too. according to the same state department study, if we keep using rails, we're looking at nearly 300 spills per year with over 1200 barrels of oil released. now if the pipeline is built, it would likely spill an average of 500 barrels with a leak occurring once every two years. you can't deny this is a debate over safety. i don't care if you believe in oil or not. our economy is run by oil. this oil isn't going to be going away anytime soon. now we have an opportunity of oil independence. now we have an opportunity to advance our own independence when it comes to self-reliance and energy in this country. i'm for green, i'm very solar,

i'm for wind energy, but we have a responsibility to adapt to the oil that's coming out of our ground whether you like it or not. shale oil will be in the keystone pipeline and it will alleviate the pressure that's on the rail system in this country. it's not a fair debate to any liberal. it's not a fair debate to any environmentalist in this country if you allow all this oil to go on rails across this country and not be concerned about safety. joining me now is michael bruin and susan of the natural resources defense council. i appreciate you both of you being here tonight. i want your side of the story on this. susan, why is your organization against this pipeline? why is it bad for america? >> you know, ed, you spoke about the safety issue. that's really critical. the bottom line here is oil by rail or pipeline, neither one is

safe. neither one is good for america. when you look at keystone xl, this is a pipeline that's being built to take tar sands from canada through america to the gulf coast where it is going to be turned into diesel and exported. it's not about u.s. energy independence and security and it is not about u.s. safety. it's about lining the pockets of the oil industry with a higher prices they can get overseas for their product. that's bad for our waters and farms and the heartland of america where this pipeline would cross and it's bad for our climate. >> i take issue with you about it is not about u.s. safety. a pipeline is much safer than a truck. does the keystone pipeline, susan, offer any positives at all to the united states? >> it really doesn't. this is not a pipeline that's in our national interest.

and i'm sorry i didn't mean to say it was not about safety. it's not about u.s. energy security and u.s. energy independence when so much of the product coming through this pipeline would be for export. >> it would be refined here in the united states instead of being refined in china. i think that that, too, is something that needs to be looked at. michael bruin, where is this tar sand oil going to come through if not the pipeline? >> it won't be out of the grounds. the tar sands is more toxic and more corrosive and carbon intensive, and landlocked. the only way out is if more pipelines are built. the pipeline to the u.s. has been delayed for five years. two proposed pipelines to the west coast of canada are being

resisted. pipelines to the east are also facing some stiff resistant. if you don't believe the ciara club, listen to what the oil industry is saying. analysts have said time and time again they will not be able to grow or increase the production of tar sands oil if these pipelines are not built. you're very right to talk about safety, but our point is we shouldn't have to choose between two bad ideas. we're progressives. we should have a big vision that works for all americans and we should not have to choose between one risky option, which is shipping all this oil through pipeline and another bad option was to ship all this oil by rail, which also a long history of spills. >> that's a key point. you said it is not going to get

out of the ground. no one knows that for sure. if this oil ends up in china, their refinery methods and their lack of standards are going to be far less than the united states. it will hurt the environment even more. that oil is going to come out of the ground. is there opposition to it? no question about it. there is. there's opposition to the pipelines across the east and the west to canada. you can't guarantee that that oil is not going to come out of the ground. that might be the environmental mission, but that's not a guarantee. just as it is not an absolute that is going to be exclusively tar sand oil in the keystone pipeline. we have a oil find here that is sweet crude. it helps us with energy independence and it changes that

we're not going to be held hostage by foreign governments if we have it here on our turf. >> we've been doing a great job in the u.s. on reducing our dependency oil. >> excuse me. that is a great point. this xl pipeline, if it's constructed and given the stamp of approval, doesn't mean we're going to use anymore oil or have any bigger of a footprint. >> it'll be shipped overseas all the way to china. >> which is not good. >> climate change is a real threat right now. >> it is. >> it is threatening our safety and health and pocketbooks. as mike said, we need to be reaching for that bigger vision. do we keep approving dirty

energy project after dirt energy project, or do we really push forward hard with clean energy? >> no one can take an issue with that very positive and real stance, but the lights in this studio are supplied by a coal fired plant in north dakota and it also supplies 18 states. how else are we going to turn on the lights? we have to have a diverse energy package. oil is here to stay. oil independence plays right into foreign policy. i'm short on time. i want to have you both back on the program. we're going to continue these long discussions on this pipeline and i appreciate your time tonight. thank you for joining us. coming up, a vote in chattanooga, tennessee, next week could give labor workers a much needed win in the south. ♪

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greg morris, the georgia state rep, is targeting the poor with drug testing. if you're on food stamps, this southern gentleman wants your specimen. >> should people who receive food stamps be required to take a drug test? >> a bill introduced in the georgia legislature would make it mandatory. >> the most important thing we do up here at the capitol is protecting taxpayers dollars, make sure they're spent wisely. and i can't think of anything more egregious than for people's, taxpayers dollars to be used to subsidize drug abuse. >> greg morris has taken a page out of rick scott's bad ideas book. scott signed a law to drug test florida residents in need only to have it struck down. the state reps bill should go no further than the waste basket. if greg morris means helping a community means marginalizing them, he can keep on pretending. during the day, we generate as much electricity

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welcome back to "the ed show." this is a story for the folks who take a shower after work. i love this one. a volkswagen assembly plant in tennessee could become the first foreign-owned car factory in the united states with a union. workers in the chattanooga, tennessee plant will vote next week on whether to join the united automobile workers. if the vote goes through, the uaw would establish a first of its kind german-style works council. the uaw would negligent wages and benefits under tennessee's

right-to-work law, workers would not have to join the union to be represented. republican senator bob corker, who is the former mayor of chattanooga, tennessee, has expressed concerns about job losses if the uaw takes hold. he is on the wrong side of this, i think. foreign auto companies have opened factories in the united states generally in states with less union activity. the uaw has struggled to add members from those facilities. joining me tonight, bob king, united auto workers president. mr. king, good to have you with us tonight. how big an opportunity is this for the uaw and these workers if this vote is thumbs-up, bob? >> it's tremendously important for the workers in chattanooga, tennessee. it allows them to be a part of the codetermination system globally. they believe in representation. they believe in codetermination. they say codetermination is a critical factor in their success. and this will give chattanooga workers the right to sit on the

global works council, to have input on quality and productivity, on where new product goes. it's a tremendous opportunity for the workers in chattanooga. >> so explain this german works council. what does that mean? this is the first time i think a lot in our audience have ever heard that term, what it means, what impact it would have. >> under the german coded codetermination law where it is set up by law in that country, they set up works councils that look at the workplace issues, health and safety issues, production standard issues, overtime issues, things like that the works council deals with. in the u.s. under normal contract relationships, that's all dealt with as part of the contract. in chattanooga, if the workers decide they want uaw representation, we've been really clear we're going to set up the first works council in the u.s. that would bring a closer relationship between white collar and blue collar. that everybody in all uaw

facilities, it's our 21st century philosophy that we're partners. we work ever day for the success of the companies where we represent workers because we know that's the best way to get benefits and security for workers is have companies be successful. volkswagen is an opportunity for us to take that a step further. we're very excited than opportunity pour the workers and for ourselves as a union. >> uaw represents workers at a mitsubishi plant in normal, im. will approval of this vote in tennessee help the uaw to i guess reach other foreign car factories in the united states? is this a breakthrough if it happens? >> i definitely think it's a breakthrough. we know from long history that workers everywhere in the united states want union representation when companies give them a free decision on whether they want to join a union. so this will demonstrate workers vote to be represented by the uaw because the employer said it's your decision. we're going to be neutral in

this. we believe that workers should have a right to representation. it will show that workers everywhere, given the opportunity to be in unions, a free democratic opportunity, will choose representation, and that will give us a great opportunity to take this works council motto and apply it in the u.s. that i think will -- look at germany. it's been the most successful industrialized country because of codetermination. >> all right. bob king, uaw, great to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. good luck to you. thank you so much. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. good evening, ed. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, getting the story straight. one of the key questions in the scandal swirling around governor chris christie is when did he first learn about the closings of access lanes to the george washington bridge. the shutdown of those lanes last

fall caused massive traffic, backing up emergency vehicles and kids on school buses for hours. so did the governor know before the shutdown during the closures, or only weeks later when it became public? that's what he said up until now in a radio interview last night. and in that