bob king, uaw, great to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. good luck to you. thank you so much. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. good evening, ed. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, getting the story straight. one of the key questions in the scandal swirling around governor chris christie is when did he first learn about the closings of access lanes to the george washington bridge. the shutdown of those lanes last fall caused massive traffic, backing up emergency vehicles and kids on school buses for hours. so did the governor know before the shutdown during the closures, or only weeks later when it became public? that's what he said up until now in a radio interview last night. and in that interview, the governor dismissed questions

about when he knew about the lane closings. >> what is going on now with all this other stuff, it's just a game of gotcha. you know, when did i first learn about this or that. well, the fact of the matter is i've been very clear about this. before these lanes were closed, i knew nothing about it. i didn't plan it. i didn't authorize it. i knew nothing about it. >> but it's not a game of gotcha. it matters. and here is what governor christie said last night about the lane closings. >> the fact is the first time this really came into my consciousness as an issue is when pat foye e-mail about this incident was leaked to the media and reported on. and that was the first time that i got a sense that there might be some issue here. >> and who brought that to your attention? was it staff? >> no, it was news accounts. >> you read them personally or did somebody bring to it your attention? >> no, i read it. i read it in "the wall street journal."

>> he read it in "the wall street journal." here is the article published october 1, several weeks after the closing. but today "the wall street journal" says christie's own office contradicts that claim. the journal says, quote, mr. christie's administration said over the weekend that one of those articles, a column in the record on september 13 is how mr. christie first learned what was occurring. september 13th, what happened to october 1? in early december, christie said, quote, the first i ever heard of the issue was when it was reported in the press. which i think was in the aftermath of the leaking of mr. foye's e-mail. that e-mail leak happened on october 1. but in january, christie said he learned about the closures before that story with the leaked e-mail.

>> no, i think it was -- it wasn't pat foye's e-mails, but i think there was an earlier story about that. i don't remember exactly. >> something about the traffic, yeah. >> it's not a game of gotcha. it's about getting the facts straight. joining me now is new jersey state senator nia gill. she is on the supercommittee investigating the bridge scandal. and former u.s. attorney kendall coffey. let me start with you, senator. >> yes. do. >> you have a clear understanding of when the governor first learned about the lane closures? >> that's why this investigation is so vitally important, so that we can take all the factual evidence together and make that determination. and in this sense, given what the port authority does, it controls the bridges, the busiest airport and the world trade center. so if you take it in that context and abuse of power in that context, the public

deserves to know, and this is what our investigation will do, who was involved, when and how do we make sure that this never happens again. >> now, i understand that you're going to deal with the vital issues, very important about who was involved, what was involved. but looking at the time that the governor knew, because you're dealing with the fact emergency vehicles couldn't get through, children on school buses, tens of thousands of people delayed over these three or four days. are we being asked to believe in your committee that the governor who runs the state of new jersey with all kind of employees and people in his executive office would only know about the stalled traffic for three or four days in the largest bridge in the world because he read it in the newspaper three weeks later? >> well, that's why we need to get to the facts of this and not

have a moving target. we need to be able to fix the date with the governor with all the other documents, because that date that we fix in this investigation will have resulting effects in a long-term basis. >> kendall, you were a u.s. attorney. and so was chris christie. and i was struck by him saying when this came into my consciousness about the bridge closings. he wasn't sure. i wouldn't help but wonder, as u.s. attorney, would he have allowed one of those politicians that he prosecuted to talk about when something came in their consciousness? i mean, isn't that a little vague? and wouldn't that be questioned by you as a prosecutor on why someone couldn't be more specific about something that

important? >> well, i think of course it's going to be a fascinating issue for anyone who is investigating this. we know that a letter was issued very recent lili that said that christie knew about it and there is evidence to support that if you piece that together with a statement about i gained a consciousness of it afterwards, i think what it suggests is that there may be some kind of documentation, e-mail or otherwise suggesting that something came across christie's desk or something might have been copied to him. in the real world, we know people don't read and carefully absorb everything that is copied to them when they get gazillions of e-mails and texts. on the other hand, it looks bad and is already complicating a difficult timeline which so far as it is coming from the administration seems to be raising more questions than answers almost on a daily basis. >> doesn't it also look at that and even as a prosecutor raise an eyebrow when you go from you

definitely didn't know date certain to i may have known it this time to maybe my consciousness. i mean, your consciousness is a long away from i definitely didn't know until i read it in "the wall street journal." >> well, for sure you're right. and carefully worded when it came to my consciousness is never as good as an answer as unequivocally yes, unequivocally no, and having a definitive timeline. well still don't have a definite timeline. i think part of why people who are in the middle of a conflict like this is they pick very carefully worded messages. they don't know how it's going to develop and they don't want to be contradicted. >> he didn't depend on consciousness there. he is being very firm that no, i didn't know before. but he is vague on at what point after that he knew which leads to maybe what you're saying about he is trying to see what

may have come across or comes out with these documents. let me ask you, senator. >> yes. >> three officials are now taking the fifth, bridget kelly, the former deputy chief of staff is refusing to hand over documents to you in the supercommittee. >> yes. >> she is the one that did the e-mail, "time for some traffic jam on the bridge." bill stepien, the former campaign manager and david wildstein, he is submitting the documents, but he is refusing to testify. if they hold their guns on the fifth, what can the supercommittee do to get them to talk? >> first of all we already have documents that we are actively reviewing because people are responding to the production of documents on an ongoing basis. the issue with respect to the fifth amendment, we know that our committee is statutorily

mandated to investigate. >> the documents you're going over are not from any of those three. >> they're not from any of those three. but we will in consultation with our attorney and as a committee as a whole deal with the issue of the assertion of fifth amendment constitutional rights. >> now, when the senator says, kendall, they are not a criminal investigative body, does that mean they have no options available to them, they would have to refer to a prosecutor if that is their choosing, and then how do they deal with the fact that state prosecutors are connected to the governor? >> well, i think from the standpoint of the subject of an investigation, whether or not they're facing an investigation that is purely criminal in nature, they still have fifth amendment rights. the question really here is this going to get them anywhere in terms of withholding documents. the fifth protects testimony. it doesn't protect preexisting documents. perhaps you can hold your

tongue, but you can't hold back the smoking gun. now they are arguing issues under new jersey law that arguably apply to the legislative subpoenas, and they're also complaining that the subpoenas are too broad, asking for too much. and yet i think we know that sooner or later, there are also going to be federal subpoenas which don't have to take account of new jersey protections, whatever they might be. sooner or later, all the documents are going to reach the hands of federal investigators, if not the hand of the legislative process. >> but here is what concerns some people, senator and kendall. >> yes. >> it goes outside of your committee, referred or not to a criminal prosecutor. >> yes. >> the state prosecutors are connected to the governor. if it goes to the u.s. attorney's office, many of those that work in the u.s. attorney's office worked when christie was

the u.s. attorney. those are his former employees and friends that are in that office. how do you get an objective analysis of this from any prosecutor's office that has not had some connection to this governor? >> because i think they are professionals, and they take their job serious. the evidence will be presented. and that evidence will be vetted in accordance with the constitutional and statutory obligations to arrive at a decision. that would be saying that since i knew chris christie in my cassity, one, as a attorney, in my capacity as a legislator, even if i take on different positions, i would therefore not be able to render a fair and impartial decision. i think the facts are going to drive this case, not the personalities, but the facts. and that's why when we do that investigation, those facts will lead us to the conclusions of

who knew, when they knew, and what we can do going forward. >> kendall, does it not have the appearances anyway that a lot of people can be concerned about since there is some involvement in each potential office with the governor? >> well, i think the u.s. attorney's office is clearly staked out its right, the new jersey office to investigate this case. so they have enough confidence in their own integrity, their own professionalism and the reputation for integrity. if this became a big controversy, if there was a lot of criticism of that office getting involved, they could certainly bring in main justice, the department of public integrity to come in and oversee the investigation. but for now there seems to be an acceptance that this office is well-positioned to do a fair, impartial and i think it's going to be a thorough investigation. >> all right. i'll leave there it. state senator nia gill and kendall coffey, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you very much.

>> thanks, reverend. ahead, is chris christie strong than the political storm? new questions tonight about hurricane sandy and what his state's top paper calls, quote, political slush fund. also, ted cruz and the new myth of president obama's lawlessness. what is this attack really all about? plus, the shocking republican town hall where a voter said this to a gop congressman. >> obama, he's not president as far as i'm concerned. he should be executed as an enemy combatant, really. >> how did that congressman respond to this offensive statement? did he do the right thing? you'll definitely want to see this one. stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] to truck guys, the truck is everything.

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coming up, strange thing. governor christie says he still doesn't know if there was a traffic study or not. we'll cut through the confusion, next. times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you.

with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom. one of the many outstanding questions in the christie bridge scandal is why. why were the lanes closed? what purpose did it serve? we're all curious about it, including apparently the governor. >> what i'm curious about is what happened here. that's why i authorized an internal investigation as i talked about on january 9th.

and we've hired a law firm to come in and do that internal investigation. they're working really hard. they're working diligently. and i can't wait for them to be finished so that i can get the full story here. >> he is curious. so am i. but here is what i'm curious about. why didn't governor christie ask a top aide, bridget kelly, when he had the chance, when he fired her? she is the former aide who wrote that it was time for some traffic problems in ft. lee. if he was so curious about all of this, why didn't he ask her? joining me now are susan milligan and msnbc's tor ray. do you find christie's positioning on this peculiar? >> we're really supposed to

believe that he knew nothing? and david simon who wrote the wire had an excellent post, talking about you don't do this sort of a thing without getting to go to your boss and get that attaboy from your boss. so why would somebody in his office be doing these sorts of things? it's not just what happened with the gwb, right. it's also what happened in hoboken. surely there are others who are letting the attorneys know this happened to me, that happened to me. so it's not just this one gwb portion of it. >> now, susan, the curious thing to me, let's say the governor is saying he didn't know. but we don't know when he knew. and therefore never took any action. and he then turns around, not knowing what happened or why, fires who did it, never asking them what they did and why. isn't that very strange? wouldn't you at least want to

know why he said she lied to him, why she lied and what she lied about since you have an oath to uphold to the people of the state that had to deal with this inconvenience and it could have been much worse? >> well, yes, you would think so. and i think in general his behavior has been pretty erratic on this. this has been one of the most damaging things for him. if the fundamental charge against you is that you're a bully, you don't respond in a bullying manner. they sent out that e-mail on saturday saying -- accusing david wildstein of all of these transgressions in high school. a person he said he barely knew in high school. all i could think of is this is the political strategic equivalent of drunk dialing. don't do it. someone should physically hold your hand and keep you from hitting the send button. what he should be doing is what he did on the radio and what he did at the press conference and say look, this is awful what happened. i apologize. and i want there to be a full

investigation. all he had to do is be calm and say i want to get ahead with the business of new jersey and find out what happened too. it's in everyone's best interest there be an independent investigation into what happened. but his erratic behavior is not really sort of proving his innocence on this, if you will. >> now, the other thing here, toure, he needs to take away the traffic thing. he kept referencing the supposed traffic study, some of his appointees at the port authority claim was being conducted. watch this. >> i still don't know whether there was a traffic study that mored of -- >> you still don't know at this point whether there was a traffic study? >> well, what i'm saying, eric, did this start as a traffic study but then morphed into some political shenanigans, or did it start as political shenanigans that became a traffic study? >> port officials said there never was any traffic study. so why does christie still

insist that this was what was going on? >> maybe this is the little log that he is able to hold on to keep the river from just whooshing him away and over the falls. i don't know. this is the best he can come up with. this is a guy who we have looked at as a talented politician. it is hard to fight a multifront war. he has dawn zimmer coming in this way and the gww in this way, and the u.s. attorney coming the other way. the guy is just one e-mail, one leak, one more mayor away from the whole thing imploding. rev, the only thing that is really keeping him alive is the folks down the street at that other network, they don't talk about this. they talk about benghazi way more than they talk about bridgegate. so if you live in that bubble, this story barely exists. >> well, let me ask you this, susan. he has also said during the interview that it only matters if he knew before the bridge closing. watch this.

>> the most important issue is did i know anything about the plan to close these lanes, did i authorize it, did i know about it, did i approve it, did i have any knowledge of it beforehand. and the answer is still the same. it's unequivocally no. >> i mean, even if christie didn't know about it beforehand, doesn't it matter, susan, that he respond when he did find out about it and what he did about it and what he looked into? i mean, he can't set the clock where he wants to. the broncos can't start the super bowl in the third quarter. >> or the first quarter apparently. >> oh. >> sorry. well, i agree. look, if he had known about it ahead of time, that would kill him. i mean, that would just be horrible. but where he is giving some very shaded answers here, he indicated earlier that he didn't even know about it when it was going on. and i don't know how you don't

know about this huge traffic backup on the world's busiest bridge. so he is going to have to come up with a better explanation. and as usual, the cover-up is always worse than the original crime. it's unfortunate, because his appeal was always that he was very frank, very direct. and i think the american public found that very refreshing. they feel like they get a lot of double-talk from washington. but all of these kind of shaded answers undermine his fundamental strength. >> and toure the kind of consciousness and curiousness and vagueness before he goes on radio last night, take nothing questions. now, this is not the image of the guy who had nothing to hide, i'm in your face, come what may. this is not the chris christie brand that he built. >> that's right. and it does fit into the narrative that he is a bully, that he does things the way he wants to. he bulldozes over people. so when you have allegations that fit into the narrative,

whether or not the u.s. attorneys can ultimately prove it and find that smoking gun in a political world, in the court of public opinion, folks have got to be like, yeah. and this is national, because he's got to be able to raise funds for the republican governor's association. if he can't fly around to dallas and chicago and these other places, raising funds for these 22 republican governors who are up in november, then he can't help them and it becomes a national problem for them. >> susan milligan and toure, we're going to have to leave there it. thanks again for coming on the show tonight. >> thank you. >> and don't forget to watch toure on "the cycle" weekdays right here at 3:00 p.m. on msnbc. still ahead, chris christie's other headache, the growing scandal over hurricane sandy funds. where they used to score political points? big news tonight. also, a republican town hall where voters said some shocking things about the president. how did the republican congressman respond?

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liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? before the bridge scandal hit governor chris christie's got credit for reaching across the aisle to work with president obama in the days following hurricane sandy. >> the president is great. i spoke to him three times yesterday. the president has been all over this, and he deserves great credit. the president has been outstanding in this. so the folks at fema. >> i cannot thank the president enough for his personal curb and compassion for the state and for the people of our state. >> but now there are questions about whether he used sandy aid as a political tool and a political weapon. that's next.

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hurricane sandy relief, promising storm victims who are still waiting for help that more aid is on the way. >> so folks who have not yet gotten back in their home, or have their home elevated or feel safe again are saying well, i know you have helped a lot of people, but when is mine? i get it. what i'm saying is we're going as quickly as we can to get it done. >> until recently, this was the issue that christie hope wed would all be talking about. after all, his storm response response mad his national reputation. but after the storm, he was everywhere, building his reputation as someone willing to work across the aisle. it was a huge part of his reelection appeal in a blue state. and a huge part of why he was talked about as a national contender. that was then. this is now.

earlier this month, the mayor of hoboken, new jersey told msnbc, he warned her they would withhold sandy relief funds unless she approved a development deal. and now reports the politics of sandy funds went hoboken. >> we're going start with a story that made news this week. it's a story you probably already know about. it was reported on tuesday night of the newark star ledger that christie himself had pushed $60 million in sandy money for the development of a senior citizen housing complex in the town of belleville, new jersey. sure enough, just after christie took part in the groundbreaking ceremony for the project last may, the mayor of belleville did endorse him. so that was the news this week. >> the governor's office has denied anything improper, and this week the head of the recovery effort said, quote,

politics has played absolutely no role in disaster recovery. but new jersey's largest paper, the newark star ledger said christie used sandy money as a political slush fund, and says, quote, this was about politics and that is simply wrong. sandy victims everywhere should be furious. joining me now is bob ingle. he is author of "chris christie: the inside story of his rise to power." bob, first, thanks for being here tonight. >> glad to be here, rev. >> how serious are all of these questions about the sandy relief funds? >> i think it's very serious. but one thing you have to keep in mind, you know how federal regulations are, you get a stack about that high. and within that, the locals are given a lot of leeway to do things as they want to do. >> sure. >> now what the administration has said and what you just repeated is there is no politics

involved. so the problem is proving that it really was made on a political decision. >> now, a new analysis by wnyc of one of sandy's grant programs found, quote, multiple irregularities in how funds were distributed. an analysis showed hoboken has been awarded the same amount as two much smaller towns, neither of which experienced much damage from sandy or previous storm. which the reporter said could lend credence to mayor zimmer's claim that hoboken was shortchanged. now the governor's office says the grant process is ongoing, but what does this say to you? >> well, it says to me that they're going to have to do some more digging before they find the smoking gun that we're always talking about. because on the surface they can say this fit all the regulations. and until you get into the

minutia and the dotting of the i's and the crossing of the t's, it's just he said-she said kind of stuff. >> they also reported at wnyc that last year the sandy contractors gave $300,000, more than $300,000 to the republican governor's association, and the governor's association, the republican governor's association gave governor christie $1.7 million for his reelection campaign. you've been covering things a long time. doesn't that seem a little odd to you? >> odd is not the way i would describe it, rev. before this book, i had a book called "the soprano state: new jersey's culture of corruption." a "new york times" best-seller. everywhere i went across the country, people would say how would they get by with this stuff? and it's simple. it's not illegal. >> it's not illegal? >> well, making contributions, you know, first you have to

prove that they expected to get something particular back. but in new jersey, development is the mother's milk of politics. they give to candidates expecting to get something back in the way of contracts. and developments always have a lot of contracts, lawyer, consultants, building, the whole thing. it is the way they do business in jersey. >> now, there is some that speculate there may have been some of these developments that may have been the real motive around even the bridge -- the bridge closings. do you see any credibility into that? >> steve kornacki actually was the first to come up with that. when this first happened, there was nobody who believes really that it had to do with a senator who didn't vote for a judge or it had to do with a mayor who didn't endorse this governor. well knew there was something else. we just didn't know what it was. steve kornacki looked at the map, and he saw that this

development that is planned needed to have access to the bridge. and if you cut back that access, it would lower the value of the development and maybe even stop it. that has a lot more meat on it to me following jersey as i have than the mayor didn't endorse a governor. i just never could believe that. >> wow. well, we still don't know what happened, but it's getting more and more interesting. thank you so much, bob ingle for coming. thank you for your time tonight. up next, the republican town hall that includes some stunning rhetoric about president obama. >> the only way i see out of this is to overwhelmingly change the senate. >> thank you. >> so that we then can impeach the s.o.b. >> we'll show you what the republican lawmaker said to that voter. also, what is wrong with this picture?

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trotted out similar lines. it's all variations of what we have seen from the right time and again. calls for impeachment, conspiracies that the president was born in kenya, loose talk of him being a dib tater. and instead of putting an end to this toxic talk, some on the right seem to revel it. the latest example comes from an event involving gop congressman jim brendenstein. it was posted on world net daily and they say it's likely it was recorded in the past few months. take a listen. >> obama, he is not president as far as i'm concerned. he should be executed. he is an enemy combatant, really. muslims that he is shipping into our country through pilots and commercial jets, i can't tell

you, i can't say because this is a public place, this guy is a criminal. nobody is stopping him. and the other thing too, congress doing nothing, that legally allows this moron to make decisions. he has no authority, none. and he is just -- we just said oh, yeah, we should do this and we should do that, but nobody is doing anything to accomplish anything. >> this -- look, everybody knows the lawlessness of this president. he picks and chooses which laws he is going to enforce or not enforce. he does it by decree. >> the congressman is told the president should be executed. and he says something? our president is called an enemy combatant, and the congressman doesn't even condemn it? no, he doesn't. he simply uses this as an opportunity to call president obama lawless. and then this happens. >> i have time for one more question. yes, ma'am?

>> the only way i see out of this is to overwhelmingly change the senate. >> thank you. >> so that we then can impeach the s.o.b. [ laughter ] >> you know, you look so sweet. >> laughter, laughter when the president is described that way. whatever happened to reasonable disagreement? what happened to leadership in washington? what happened to simple decency? we have e-mailed the congressman's office for a statement. as of yet we've gotten no response. joining me now are michelle cottle and goldie taylor. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> thank you, reverend. >> goldie, how can an elected member of con hear vicious

rhetoric like this and simply let it go? >> he can do it if he has a very, very conservative base with his county gop. he can do it if he has a very conservative red district. he can do it if his national party, people like reince priebus, you know, fail to call him out on a daily basis. i mean, he can get away with this kind of thing. the fact of the matter is the people who are uttering words of impeachment are people who don't understand the standard of law that it takes to bring an impeachment, articles of impeachment. they don't understand the process that it takes to work its way through the house and through the senate. what they really don't understand is what an impeachment process really does to this country. it shuts down everything. it shuts down the talk about jobs. it shuts down talk about growing this economy. >> but before they can shut it down, they have to have something to try an impeachment on. there is not even a charge. >> that is the legal basis. >> and michelle, not even acting like a charge. they're calling him lawless

without even saying breaking what law. if the lawlessness is reflected by his saying he is going to use an executive order, he is the least one to use it. he has used it least of any president in the last six or seven presidents. so that can't be serious, michelle. >> it's not so much serious. it's just the way the game is now played. everybody likes a strong president while their team is in power. and then when the other team is in power, they're just outraged and scandalized about how he is abusing the constitution. but especially with this president, there is a big section of the republican base that just views him as illegitimate. they don't care how they get him out of office or how they negate his presidency. they just can't believe they've been saddled with someone they refuse to acknowledge. >> you know, goldie, this wasn't the first time the gop lawmakers have failed to condemn this kind of language that we heard in that room with this congressman. take a listen to town hall last summer.

. >> what i need from you is to know what you can do, you and your fellow noncommunist colleagues in the lower house, what you can do to stop these communist tyrannical executive orders laid down by this foreign-born, american-hating communist despot. what can you do for me? [ applause ] we need to know. >> so thank you for your question. he said it loud enough that you all heard it. >> i mean, we can disagree without being disagreeable. we can go through our differences without being ugly. and this is the kind of stuff, i mean, you always going to have friends. you always going to have people that will say extreme things. >> sure. >> whatever happened to leadership, goldie. whatever happened to wait a minute, maybe when i use younger i would say irresponsible

things, but i'm not going to tolerate the president or anyone being characterized or in some ways threatened. let's deal with the issues in the policy. what happened to that kind of leadership? >> well, that kind of leadership seems not to exist today, at least on this issue. at the end of the day, we're talking about a small group of party activists, the people who run county and state parties. and these are the people who really work campaigns. these are the people who show up and show out at every election. these are the people who raise the small dollar contributions to fuel campaigns. this is the kind of base that you want to play indicate. but the problem here is that it gets dangerous. this stuff doesn't happen in a bubble anymore. your independents, your more moderate republicans, they begin to hear this kind of ugliness come up out of their own party, and you begin to lose your moderate republicans, you begin to lose independents, and you become a localized party, never able to recapture a national election. >> michelle, ted cruz called in to glenn beck's program today. here is what he had to say.

listen to this. >> there is a pattern of lawlessness in this administration that is breathtaking. we have never seen a president like president obama who if he doesn't agree with the federal law, he refuses to enforce it, and he openly defies it over and over and over again. he simply disregards the law. and that ought to concern everybody. unchecked power in the presidency, an imperial presidency, it's fundamentally inconsistent with individual liberty. >> imperial presidency, unchecked power. it seems to be the new line they're running down, michelle. of course, they never in any way give an example even remotely of what they're talking about. but they are repetitive with this new line, imperial presidency, unchecked power. >> you know, in this case, they talk about appointments, controversial appointments to the labor relations board or laws that he chose not -- that

the president has ostensibly chosen not to, you know, enforce. but it all comes down to ted cruz knows which side his bread is buttered on. he has risen to power and made a name for himself by playing to the passions and paranoia of a lot of people in the base who just can't quite believe this president, you know, is still in office. so i think kind of the extreme language plays very well with the people he is talking to. and he is not really all that worried about a broad-based appeal right now. >> you know, goldie, senator chuck grassley is demanding a legal defense for the president's use of executive actions. now during his time on capitol hill, he has seen seven different presidents govern, all of whom have used the executive orders. what difference is it about president obama? >> well, you know, there are many, many clear differences

about president obama. but chief among them is that, you know, he was elected by a new class of voters who came up and showed up and showed out. and that the electorate is expanding. what is different about obama is that tomorrow, tomorrow's election is going to look very different for republicans. they have to look about a new way about winning, because this president has truly changed the game. what is different here is the fear is stoked higher by any number of reasons. >> in your view, michelle, are they playing to the crowd? i'm talking about some of the far right leadership. are they playing to the crowd? are they really people that came out of the crowd and believed this? >> well, i think it's split. ted cruz is a really smart guy, but he is also extremely conservative. and he has to walk that fine line. but, yes, he is playing to some of the most kind of conspiracy theory minded folks in the party.

>> well, i'm going to have to leave it there. if we hear from congressman bridenstine's office, i'll let you know. thanks. ahead, the gop has a new plan to win elections, and how is this for transparency? it involves a fake website. stay with us. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom. like a ramen noodle- every-night budget. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. see how much you could save with allstate. are you in good hands?

republicans have a new not so secret plan to win elections.

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ready? go. consumer advocates always say you've got to read the fine print. well, apparently that's even true for politics. here is a website that appears to be for a democratic congresswoman from arizona who is running for reelection. you get to this website if you type in "contribute.sinema for congress.com. see the large print? kyrsten for congress. what does the fine print say? quote, make a contribution today to help defeat kyrsten and candidates like her. defeat her, but the website says kyrsten sinema for congress. i was confused until i read the even smaller fine print all the

way at the bottom of the page. it says paid for by the national republican campaign committee. the nrcc. that's the official republican election committee in the house, and they have argued the other democratic candidates with the same dirty trick. we've already seen one voter come forward to say he donated to the scam by mistake, and now the republicans are paying him back. we've seen dirty tricks from the gop before, but now those dirty tricks are being updated for the dotcom era. so be careful, and watch. and always remember, those that try to achieve power in a dirty way usually will handle power in a dirty way. vote and choose your person or your candidate, but make sure if they respect you, that they are direct and transparent. thank you for watching.

i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. rowing disclosure. let's play "hardball." when someone under the spotlight only tells you something when they're caught doing something. last friday, governor chris christie's appointee to the george washington bridge authority, david wildstein said that there was evidence that the governor knew about the infamous bridge lane closures while they were happening. wi