to not react when you've been viciously attacked, verbally or otherwise. but the end, i've also found that the adage is true when it says i am not what you call me. i am what i respond to. sometimes the response is a louder statement. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. republicans hiding from christie. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. whatever the prosecutors decide, the republican indictment of new jersey governor chris christie is in. their indictment is stark and clear. few want to be seen near him. wherever he goes, when he does, we see the political verdict

hanging in the air, swung out there by every curtain that is dropped over his very presence. if christie is there raising money, the behavior of his guests is to let him into the room, but keep the door closed behind him. whatever the probers find from his lawyered up and fifth amendment invoking people and possibly on him personally, the ruling on his political toxicity from his fellow republicans is decidedly and brutally guilty. the question for democrats is, is it better for him to fall further from republican grace, or it is better for the new jersey governor to remain in the gop pac for 2016 as long as possible all the way spoiling the bunch? alex wagner is the host of "now" weekdays at 4:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc and nick with "the new york times." it seems like everywhere governor christie does go there are republicans running the opposite direction. on january 18th, christie went down to florida to raise money for governor rick scott. but try finding a photo anywhere of the two men together.

the sun sentinel down there reported, quote, hoping to avoid protesters and television cameras, republicans have gone to extraordinary lengths to oy void letting people know just where scott and christie are, and where they're holding their fundraising events. republican insiders, including people who have raised substantial sums for scott or have served in party leadership spots say exact details are being kept, in the words of one, super secret. well, today christie was in texas meeting with republican donors on behalf of the republican governors association. oddly missing the governor of texas. greg abbott also stayed away. according to "the new york times," quote, an aide shrugged off democratic suggestion saying he was avoiding christie saying that mr. abbott and mr. christie would appear together, quote, down the road. for his part, christie's spokesperson said governors come to our state regularly for a variety of reasons, and we're

pleased to have them here. well, isn't that special? let me go to alex. before we goat to the reporting here by "the new york times," it seems to me there is pretty much of a verdict coming in. this guy is politically guilty. nobody wants to be seen with him, at least outside the inner circle of fat cats who are basically hoarding their money right now, trying to decide whether to give anything to this guy. >> yeah, chris, we were talking about this earlier on my show. you've got a problem if you're chair of the republican governors association and no republican governors want to associate with you, right? therein lies a problem. this guy, chris christie, was literally the beyonce of the republican party. everybody wanted a photo with him. three months ago, people were dying for a handshake from chris christie. now he is operating and traveling under a veil of secrecy. i think this, as you point out, to some degree the chickens coming home to roost with regard to scandals. but it is also a little bit of schadenfreude, all right?

i don't drop german terms very often. chris christie had an antagonistic relationship with both governor perry, bobby jindal, other governors in the association, tried to muscle them out of leadership and executive positions. this is all well reported in "the new york times." but that then, you sow those seeds and this is the harvest. no one is getting his back now that times are tough. >> nick you basically led us to this story today. a part of it because this evidence is in now that for whatever reason, they don't want the star power of this governor. they made their commitments. they're not going to dump him, because that would humiliate all of them if they dumped him. but they're letting him come in, basically, incognito almost, come in the door but not letting anybody else. in. >> the the problem is first of all the democrats have made clear that they will stage a protest. they will crash the party wherever he goes. and the problem for both the governors and the candidates and the donors is not really what is out there right now. it's what happens if they have a

picture with him today, and over the next three months the scandal gets much worse, or it implicates the governor directly. it's really unknown over the course of what promises or the a very long investigation that is most worrisome for all these people. >> so they might fear if bridget kelly were to testify, which we assume she will at some point, and she points and says something to her, it may be the governor himself, all of the sudden the local democrats or anybody, the local press pulls out a copy, a picture of these two guys together. >> right. it's a headache. it's not easy to be the ambassador or the cheerleader when you can't show your face in public with these guys. you can go on and do a lot of these fundraising visits are one-on-ones with prime donors to the rga. and i think most of those people are still behind him, or at any rate, they are ready to wait this out and see where it goes, and hope it goes no further. but the problem, again, if you're organizing a fundraising event for say april, and you're a donor somewhere in texas or

chicago or somewhere else, and you're inviting all your friends to your event in april, and you're say asking you write checks, can you buy tickets to my event? and in between now and april, something really, really bad happens, it makes christie look bad, but it also makes the fundraiser and the host of the event look bad. and that's real problem here. how do you keep the money machine going, how do you keep it all going when this is hanging over you. >> well, that's the question. i want to get back to alex, who knows the politics of these things. you know, it seems to me that this is the way it works. it's like lead time in journalism. you've got to write it for a magazine you have to figure three months ahead. if you're the editor, six months ahead. from now to the primary, from now to the general, and think about all the various witnesses that are going to be called. all the people that have been subpoenaed, all the e-mails that are subpoenaed, all the memos from the office, all the voice mail, all of this stuff ganging up. and you're figuring okay, over the next six or eight months, that's all going to be coming up. and as it comes up, i'm going to

have to count, me personally for this guy's problems. what am i getting out of it? >> yeah. and chris, let's keep in mind there are other alternatives. there is the mike huckabee in the waiting in the wings. jeb bush, there are some other alternatives here. so why put your eggs in a basket that may have a hole in it? i will also say something that has not been entirely confidence building in christie's own circles are these crazy i think reactionary memos they're sending out. you have talk and i talked a lot about the memo of last weekend, the pushback on david wildstein's lawyer's letter. when you are talking about someone's high school career, you are generally losing in american politics. that does not seem like a concerted political strategy that was well discussed and thought out among elder statesmen. >> i'm waiting for somebody to say there you go again. democrats, of course, have poured energy into attacking chris christie, jumping in on this. they have sent out 58 separate e-mails to 2 media going after christie. they follow him around the

country as nick pointed out, holding press conferences wherever the governor of new jersey shows up. american bridge, a democratic research group issued 169 requests for internal documents under foya from the christie administration's according to nick's piece, and democrats have released 11 different anti-christie web videos. here is one from last week tied to the super bowl. >> maybe the folks in washington, d.c. should tune in their tvs right now, see how it's done. >> if anyone looks at the chris christie performance this tuesday and doesn't think that it's an absolute slam-dunk as a model for the future of the republican party, they need to have their head examined. >> the one-time close political ally who resigned after organizing the crippling lane closures of the george washington bridge now says the governor, the governor, chris christie knew about those lane closures.

>> there you go. nick, this football analogy is the first quarter. >> right. >> i think it's interesting in your reporting to think about -- i love it when reporters who do straight news coverage have to figure out how politicians think. it took me about 40 years to figure it out. but the fact is they're not stupid. they're not geniuses. they're somewhere in between. they think ahead maybe a week or two. they certainly think from any point until their next election. that is their world view of a politician. and your report, your pointing to the fact that every republican in the country, especially the governors are thinking how is this going to affect me in the next political cycle, in fact, the one we're in right now. >> that's right. look. this is a huge year for the rga. i think they have 22 incumbent seats to protect, and they want to expand that obviously. they've been a very, very effective organization the last couple of cycles. and the tide is with them

probably in 2014 as well. so you can see this as kind of the bad news for them that they have this guy who should be the rainmaker, and their candidates and their incumbents are going to be averse to being seen with him. it's not the ideal way to go about kind of winning in 2014. >> what do you make of this interesting nbc/wall street journal poll saying the positive feelings for christie have gone up in one category of americans. it's not republicans generally, its core gop voter, the real hard-line guy or woman. look that it's going up ten points. what do you say at the bottom on there. 10 points from 32 to 42. is that reaction to media coverage of this thing? is it democrats enjoying it? why do they leap to support someone who is clearly got a taint, if not a real problem on his hands? >> well, at this point, chris, i think republicans are very good at lambasting scrutiny as sort of media bias. i think as nick discussed --

>> but all these people pointing the finger at the governor are all republican appointees. wildstein is his guy, you know. bridget kelly is the one who pushed the button. they're all his people. okay, nick, your reporting. >> i was going to say, look, a tried and true way to get the base on your side is to attack "the new york times" and say that your coverage is biased, that the media is against you, and the democrats hate you. he has done all of those things. his team is doing all of those things. it works for a while. it certainly helps shore up the base, and especially among people who have their doubts about christie, who thought he was too close to president obama, who resent his embrace with him after sandy. but personally i think it kind of works until it doesn't. it's no institute for kind of winning on the merits here. it will certainly work for a few days in getting people to kind of rally. >> i'm with you. i think it's quicksilver, alex. i think it's the kind of thing you saw where you saw bumper stickers back during the watergate days, get off his back about nixon.

but that was only until the evidence came. in. >> yeah. >> and i think this case, nick, as a straight reporter is going to appreciate. this i really think this decision about the future of christie is going to be dictated by evidence, e-mails, actual hard testimony, paper, where everybody is going to say with different attitudes this guy did it, this guy put this machine together. he is responsible for it, or through some fluke, all this happened around him, and that poor guy was so out to lunch, he didn't know he had created this frankenstein's monster that thought it was cool to shut down bridge traffic to screw their enemies. it is going to be the evidence that decides this thing. >> yeah. and i think evidence is fairly irrefutable. this is not just -- palin won over the sort of hard-core conservatives and continues to have their ardor. people will still argue about that. with chris christie, if and when this investigation finds he is

guilty, he will be guilty because there will be a paper trail to prove it. and i think in that way it's permanent. >> well, you just caught me with th allusion there to ardor. i don't think i've ever used that, but i think it's great for her. alex wagner, thank you. you're on at 4:00 every day. >> yes, chris. >> and nick confessore of "the new york times." coming up, the republicans say the health care plan is killing employment. the cbo director says it's creating demand for more employment whom. are you going to believe? the people distorting the cbo report or the guy who wrote it? this and more reminders of how the right wing distorts anyone they can pin with the name obama. plus, ever since he was elected governor of florida, democrats have wanted to topple rick scott. tonight the democrat who is leading scott in the polls for this november's election, charlie crist. also, you don't get to be

president unless you survive "the tonight show's" primary. now on jay's last night, we'll look at some of "the tonight show's" most memorable political moments. finally, let me finish with the hatred of our president. is it rationale or it is perhaps something more obvious? this is "hardball," the place for politics. welcome back. how is everything? there's nothing like being your own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order. good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen. [ male announcer ] introducing fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex.

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welcome back to "hardball." in politics, it's one thing to spin, but it's another thing to do what the right wing has been doing where it seems that each day they need a new permission slip to hate president obama. we've seen it time and again from the far right. they hate first, then they come up with a way to rationalize their hatred. we're seeing it right now. they say that a new cbo report proves that the president's health care law will kill jobs. speaker boehner blasted out this message to constituents. cbo report confirms devastating impact of obama on jobs. and the senate republican campaign committee followed suit. obama care to print even more pink slips. well, the rnc twisted things even further. cbo, obamacare is bad for the economy. well, the truth is exact opposite. here is democratic congressman chris van hollen talking to the cbo director, its chief, doug

elmendorf. he is the guy who wrote this report at a hearing next year. >> the cbo will boost demand and services over the next few years and the net demand will in turn boost demand for labor over the next few years. that's the conclusion you make, right? >> yes, that's right. >> so when you boost demand for labor in this kind of economy, you actually reduce the unemployment rate because those people who are looking for work can find more work, right? >> yes, that's right. >> so there is elmendorf, the head of the cbo making clear this report shows the government believes in its nonpartisan work here that the baltimore health care plan will create more jobs. the demand for more jobs. but this isn't the worst distortion. we're going to stop with that for a minute. let me go to nia-malika henderson. this whole thing, some of it was

headline running, people are putting deadlines together. but a lot going into the first or second paragraph, they see there is going to be less people wanting to work because they'll get health care with less hours. but it also makes clear what the strength of the economy, what we call in economics the demand coming out of the economy for more jobs, for more resources, for more growth, the good stuff that really makes the economy leap forward is going to be there because of obama care. pretty clearly stated by elmendorf, the head of the cbo yesterday. and yet the republican media machine continues. >> that's right. at some point all those things that elmendorf laid out will probably be a reality. but i do think there is still some uncertainty about what this -- what obama care actually means for the economy. the economists are actually not quite sure because we haven't had this sort of expansion and these sort of marketplaces in individual states, and certainly not across the country ever. so they looked at two states, oklahoma i believe and in tennessee as well.

and so i think republicans are very much playing into the sort of unknown here and playing on people's fears. and in many ways, i think it's easier to have a bumper sticker that says, you know, obama care kills jobs than it is to say well, it's not quite that it kills jobs. it's going to reduce the amount of workers because people will be allowed to not have to have jobs just to have health care. >> there is like a starting gate thing to this. the great sprinters are down in the blocks, poised to jump. it's like the "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee." the minute there is any news coming out, the republicans have this attitude of we can really stick to it this guy we hate. we hate him before we get the news. what is the news? great, we hate him more. >> right. it's almost as if the facts are out there, but they're entirely optional here. what the republicans have been doing lately is look, you could make a case based on actual things in that cbo report that were damning about obamacare.

on balance, it was fairly mixed. in any of these instances, you could make a case that something went wrong with the irs. you can argue all you want about benghazi. but in each of the instances they seem to be taking -- setting aside this set of fact and arguing something that is completely made up. >> but you go down to this level of vitriol that seems to be unrelated -- disproportion is a good word. here is a classic example of the hate obama machine in action during the president's reelection campaign. that summer, president obama spoke at a town hall event in virginia about government's role in helping people get ahead. here is what he said. >> if you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. there was a great teacher somewhere in your life. somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system

that we have that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested in roads and bridges. if you've got a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. >> well, it would seem to me when he said you didn't build that, he was talking about the roads and all the other infrastructure like good teachers and good education systems and towns that are lucky to have one. he wasn't referring to the fact that you didn't build your own business. but republicans have turned it around, you didn't build your own business. >> right. this is politics. you know if you say something that is a little bit off, you're going to get slammed for it. that's just what is going to happen here. but something different is occurring here, and that is we're completely untethered from the fact. >> here is mitt romney pouncing on the wrong way to read what was a reasonable argument by the president. you know, we didn't build the campfires to warm us to use an old reference. but here is almost president mitt romney who may run again on the campaign trail distorting. >> if you've got a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. let me ask you this.

did you build your business? if you did, raise your hand. take that, mr. president. >> take that, mr. president. we can lie. anyway, republicans even made a theme at their convention, we build it. nia? you keep track of this. but nuance, and we do have recording devices now. you can hear the way a person said it. you don't have to go to the flat words on the screen. you can go he clearly meant all this infrastructure and roads and everything. didn't build that a company somewhere, there had to be a road to it, a public road. but they turn it around that he is a socialist bastard, basically. that's what they're saying. stha isn't that the message? isn't it? >> it didn't really catch on. they tried to ham their point home. and for a couple of days they had this. it was obviously at the campaign there. but it required you to believe that president obama is a socialist. it required you to believe that he believed in the redistribution of wealth. and most people don't believe that of course, he was playing

to a certain segment of the base. but it didn't really catch on. it didn't really resonate broadly. so they quickly abandoned it, really, after they tried to really hammer it for a couple of days. >> they're still looking for new ones. they're still bobbing for apples here. here is one word you can whip the right hate machine ah up with. benghazi. they have latched on that hillary clinton testified in front of congress that it didn't make a difference that four americans were killed. again, it fits the pattern. hate first and rationalize it. here is the full picture of what clinton said in context. >> we were misled that there was supposedly protests and then something sprang out of that, an assault sprang out of that. and that was easily ascertained that that was not the fact and the american people could have known that within days. and they didn't know that. >> with all due respect, the fact is we had four dead americans. was it because of a protest or was it because a guy is out for a walk one night decide they'd would go kill some americans? what difference at this point does it make? it is our job to figure out what

happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, senator. >> well, nia, the point is, the irony of all this cabal here, the claimed cabal is that the nonpartisan or bipartisan senate intelligence committee has come out and basically cleared everything susan rice said on "meet the press" that day, everything about it being a copycat attack on our facility in benghazi that came about spontaneously from what was happening in cairo. people had ways of communicate manage the arab world. and not all they think came from that crazy movie, islamist movie out now. everything the administration said was true. and here is secretary of state hillary clinton simply saying, you know, we thought that's what happened. it turns out they were right. why are you guys hanging on this thing. and that's the question. when clearly she didn't mean it doesn't matter if somebody got killed. she was arguing it doesn't matter about the details of what led to that particular incident. even in the case it turns out that she and the other people in

the administration were dead right. >> i think this requires a certain set of beliefs that say somehow hillary clinton is a bad and evil person. >> right. >> there is some conversation, right, about them sitting, watching this happen live, and they didn't do anything. so, again, it require asset of beliefs that most people don't have. but you will see republicans in 2014, the rnc just put up a website about benghazi on the rnc home page there. so they want to ham their point home because they definitely want to use 2014 to start damaging hillary clinton now in advance of 2016. >> you know, mark twain said that a lie can make it halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. i think the republicans have realized that and realized that you don't have to particularly with the speed of the news cycles now, you don't have to operate in this zone. the democrats seem to have more of a sense that it's something about fairness that you can't actually do that. and i think that's to their detriment. this is how the game is played. now it's full of distortion, and

they have to play the game too. which saw this with mike dukakis. we saw this with john kerry. they do it again and again. the democrats are a little slow to recognize that's it not about honesty. thank you, nia-malika henderson. thank you, dana milbank. up next, the reason joe biden might not run for president. things zero to 60 in 3.4 seconds, quick. that's next in the side show. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. discover card. i asked my husband to pay our bill, and he forgot. you have the it card and it's your first time missing a payment, so there's no late fee. really? yep! so is your husband off the hook?

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headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about axiron. back to "hardball," and time for the sideshow. joe biden may be considering a run for president in 2016. but at an event for the united auto workers yesterday, he revealed what might hold him back. it's not what you might have guessed, though. it's the new chevy corvette. >> everybody wants to know whether or not i'm going to run for president. there is a lot of ran to run for

president. but there is one overwhelming reason not to run for president. i'd like to get that z 0 to 60 in 3.4 seconds. 3.4 seconds! >> that's right. joe biden loves cars. the problem is he is not allowed to drive while he serves as vice president. the same goes when your president may not sound like a tough trade-off. but if you doubt his sincerity, just listen to his gaga he has over his new stingray. >> that new stingray, yo! oh, oh, oh, it's more than a quarter horse. even though it goes 0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds. not that i like speed. and i could hardly wait if i were just not in this job to take on my friend's porsche. i'm serious. it's the best buy in america. >> unleashed, joe biden. next up, this latest ad

supporting the affordable care act is sure to get attention, even if it feels more like look who is talking at a public service announcement. the independent nonprofit group called enroll america released a video featuring singing pets, cats, dogs, parrots, you name it, designed to encourage young women to sign up for health coverage. these are unconventional mascots to say the least, but we'll have to see how it plays with animal lovers out there. here is a clip. ♪ when you take me for a run, that's so much fun ♪ ♪ and i'm sorry if i gave you fleas ♪ ♪ and to catch and sit, that takes a lot of work, so you better stay fit ♪ ♪ so sign up today, enroll, enroll today ♪ >> that's enough to get you to make a major financial decision. anyway, up next, democrats would love to beat florida governor

rick scott this year. they think they have the man to do it, charlie crist, the former governor. he is coming here next, right here. and you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ you walked into the hotel as a "5" but when she saw the room... you turned into a weird "7". when she saw the roof-top pool... you went to: "11" ♪ you two should probably get a room... oh that's right! you already did.

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i'm page hopkins. here is what is happening. the tsa is banning liquids, gels, and aerosols from carry-on bags from u.s. flights to russia. the decision was based on intelligence suggesting terrorists might try to smuggle explosives on to planes in toothpaste tubes. a measure to extend jobless benefit failed again in the senate. it was two votes shy of the 60 needed to advance. and more than half a million people are still without power after that winter storm that battered the northeast on wednesday. now back to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." well, two of the biggest national races in 2014, and that's this year, are sure to be the pennsylvania and florida governor races. both states have very unpopular republican governors right now where most vulnerable incumbents actually on the national seen. democrats see both states as ripe opportunities for the taking. the former republican governor of florida, charlie crist swits me right now. he is launching a political come back for his old job. but this time he is seeking to defeat the right wing incumbent governor rick scott who i for whatever reason have ever liked. and two polls show crist in solid early shape. a poll out yesterday shows crist sitting with a seven-point lead over the governor with 47% preferring crist over the 40% supporting rick scott. and a quinnipiac poll taken a few days earlier shows crist running eight points ahead of

scott with 46% to scott's 38%. crist sought with a new book called "the party is over: how the extreme right hijacked the gop and he became a democrat." former florida governor and democratic candidate charlie crist joins me now. thank you, charlie. i've always liked you politically. let me talk about this thing right here. first of all, there is an issue that really bothers me. i don't like wars we don't have to eighth fight that we get talked into with bad evidence and i don't like people getting screwed out of voting. somebody called me anti-white the other day for a fight all the time for minorities to vote. >> right. >> i think you can beat somebody in sports, but damn well do it fair. you to have a fair playing field in politics, and everybody should get to vote. why does your ex-party think the way to fight the demographic changes in this country is to screw the minorities? this is something you have seen in florida. rick scott is right behind it. >> absolutely he is. when i was governor, even as a republican in '08 we had long lines for the early voting in florida. it was obama versus mccain. and dan gelber, who was the

democratic house leader in florida called me up and said governor, you got to do something about this. it's wrong. and for me, frankly, it's never been about right versus left. it's been about right versus wrong. it was a compelling argument to me. he said sign an executive order expanding the rights so our fellow floridians can vote. so i did it. >> look at the lines. >> it's terrible. four years later, rick scott faces the same situation. dan gelber and i called him. you have to sign an executive order, let our people vote. he constituent wouldn't do it. >> what does he say? we have pennsylvania guys up there. i openly say it's partisan. i'm not saying they don't like black people. i'm say thanksgiving don't like black people voting democrat. so what they do is try to make it harder. >> you're right. you're absolutely right. i mean, i've been in the discussions. have i seen it. and it's appalling. and it's wrong. you know, people would come to me when i was a republican governor in the republican party, not republican people. mom and dad store republicans. they're good, honest, fair people. but in the party, the activists really want to try to suppress

the vote. and what does that tell you? the guys who can only win when less people vote? that's not the right team. and that's not the right values. and that's not what we ought to be standing for in america. i don't care what party you're in. we need to be as a democracy encouraging people to vote. you know, it's important for the democracy to survive that people have the right to vote. >> okay, that's partisan crap to me. it's just a way to win. it's dirty politics. >> it's wrong. >> you do it in pennsylvania. it's not a southern, northern thing. they're doing it everywhere. 36 states under reince priebus in the republican party are doing it. he hates to hear this, but it is his party. and he could blow the whistle on this. >> sometimes the truth hurts. >> let's talk about the party you were in a couple of years ago. >> yeah. >> i always thought of you as a centrist. now, the republican party, even in states like pennsylvania has gone hard right. why? and how hard right is it? i mean, are you going to run the old party, going run a right wing guy for president or woman for president next time, or is

it still salvageable? is the boat tilted so far right it can't come back? >> it's a great question. i don't know what they're going to do. i have given up predict what they might do. it's incredible to me to see what has happened to today republican party. jeb bush said it better than i could ever say it. they're now perceived as anti-women, anti-immigrant, anti-minority, anti-gay couples, anti-environment, anti-education. pretty soon there is nobody left in the room. >> how does he stay in the party? >> i don't know. i don't know. i feel for him. it's got to be difficult because he is a reasonable guy. i like jeb. he is. and he was a good governor. but today's republican party has literally been hijacked by the tea party. it happened about three or four years ago. >> here is what i don't understand nationally, because florida is the classic -- tim russert used to say florida, florida, florida. it's one of the states that really does tell you where we're headed. >> right. >> in fact, in the days of falling chads, new york had new york accents, southern accents, all kinds of people. >> we have it all.

>> what percentage of the party that you were in is hopelessly tea party, angry at the world, won't change, can't stand obama, doesn't want to think anymore? >> maybe 25, 30%. >> then why is the tail wagging the dog? >> i don't know the answer to that. >> because it is here in washington with boehner. is bainer the boss? he ought to drop immigration the other day because the tail is wagging him. >> they ought to have the courage to stand up and say enough is enough. >> you're a politician. to answer the question, why is the tail wagging the dog in your old party? >> i can't answer illogic. >> you can answer. >> i'm serious. i can't. i can understand things that make logical sense to me. i can not give an answer to something that doesn't make any sense to me at all there are a lot of good republicans in this country, and they've let the party be hijacked. and it's a shame, you know, this is the party of lincoln. >> boehner is still a republican. he doesn't respect these crazies on the right. but he has to kowtow to them. >> he doesn't have to. he doesn't have to. >> he makes fun of them. >> he could do what i did. he could say enough is enough. if this is where you're party is going and that's what you stand

for, then i can't be part of it doesn't because it doesn't agree with my core principles. >> what is the worst thing you can say about rick scott? i had this attitude based on his performance. what is the worst thing about why he needs to be remove and you to replace him there. >> are so many. let me start with his background, his ethics. rick scott is a guy who headed a company that had to pay the largest fine for fraud in the history of the united states of america at the time, $1.7 billion, a health care company. so what did they do? they upcoded. what does that mean in common parlance? it means they stole from people whom. did they steal from? taxpayers. they provided it for medicare and for patients, sick people. they upcoded. they cheated. they took too much money. that's why the federal government made them pay a $1.7 billion fine. he headed that company. he had to go under oath and talk about it in a deposition. he plead the fifth, chris, 75 times. i've never plead the fifth in my life. >> that all happened before he got elected. >> no kidding. >> why would the people of florida elect a guy who took the fifth 75 times?

i've been told by experts in politics the only people who take the fifth, and they do take it, are people that never expect to run for office because the public assumes you're hiding something. >> of course he was. but he spent $75 million that he got in a golden parachute when he left the company to win the office or to buy it. >> thanks for reminding me. i knew about that thank you, charlie crist. good luck in the race down there. before iowa or new hampshire, there is one state every politician must command in politics, and it's tonight's show. you got to be good on that show. the interesting history of a popular show where the ratings for jay have always been huge and how it matters in politics. and that is "hardball," a place for politics. when you order the works you want everything. an expert ford technician knows your car's health depends on a full, complete checkup. the works. because when it comes to feeling safe behind the wheel, going the distance and saving at the pump you want it all. get our multi-point inspection with a a synthetic blend oil change,

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luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. welcome back to "hardball." tonight marks jay leno's final broadcast of the program as host of "the tonight show" where i've been a guest actually 29 times. i've been so lucky to be on that woman. one aspect of jay's reign all these year that has set him apart has been his political introduce. president obama made history just 58 days into his presidency by becoming the first u.s. sitting president ever to appear on late-night entertainment show. here it is. >> so much scrutiny. it is fair to judge so quickly? >> well, look. we are going through a difficult time. i welcome the challenge. i ran for president because i

thought we needed big changes. i do think in washington it's a little bit like "american idol" except everybody is simon cowell. >> wow, wow. >> anybody that doesn't think the anybody that doesn't think the presidency ages you should look at that picture. dark hair, looks just younger. anyway, 2003, arnold schwarzenegger announced on leno the current governor gray davis needed to go and he, arnold schwarzenegger wanted to replace him. i remember that night. >> he's failing them terriblery, and this is why he needs to be recalled. this is why i'm going to run for governor of the state. >> bill carter is national media reporter for "the new york times." and lizz winstead is co-creator of "the daily show." thank you both for joining us. bill, you know, i think the key to leno over the years and his high ratings, one key is he's really interested when he interviews you. i know you've been on there. when you get interviewed by a guy who wants your answer, it's

not from a script, talk to him during the breaks he's asking you more questions. the guy -- i never -- if either way, he fooled me about his politics completely. i thought he was one thing, he's another. i think. but what do you think about his interest and ability to do political interviews? >> well, it's clearly been a focus of not only his "tonight show" but his whole year. he's interested in politics. he talks about politics. he thinks it's good, you know, fodder for economy which is what he thinks about all the time. he does think about it all the time. having the guests on, you know, relate -- he relates to hem. he relates to those ideas because he's talking about them every night. >> and that's different -- that separates him from other guys who do late night over the years. >> well, i mean, i think letterman is very good, too. letterman does very good political interviews, too. i think jay like all the hosts did not start out as good as he got because i think he's gotten much better and much more serious in his interviews and listens better. i think he's piqued his interest in politics as he's gotten older as i think a lot of us do. >> i think he's looking for

material. i'm with that. a professional thing, lizz. he used to watch us, we were on at 2:00 in california, he maybe still watches at 4:00. maybe not as often. the guy knew what i was doing every night when i'd meet with him. he was totally curious. he did not fake it. i hate to say this about jay, i don't think he's that interested in some of this show business nonsense that shows up in the supermarket checkout counter stuff. your thoughts? >> well, i met jay leno 30 years ago when i started out doing standup. i started out in minneapolis. ask any standup comedian, big or small, where one of their favorite cities are to perform, and it's minneapolis. it was at a time when jay would come into town for two, three days and work a club and i would get to open for him. he talked about politics all the time. his act was incredibly political. and he -- then he'd cars and i want to fall asleep. he loves cars and politics. he has a strong curiosity about it. i think he is smart.

the talk show hosts that say, you know what, we can actually from a standpoint of ratings and politics, remember when you have a politician on your late night show, not only is the political press going to write about you, so is the entertainment press so you get a massive bang for your buck as well. >> for the political -- i know you don't cover that beat. the political end, it seems like it always comes off better than they do in any other medium. >> i think so. when jay throws punches in his monologue, political punches, he flow throws jabs, not hay makers. not trying to knock guys out. it's a good venue because he has a mainstream following. not conservative or democratic. he's got the whole range of america there. so it's a good place to play. >> i agree completely. i think, in fact, my mom loved him when she was alive. she was pretty much mainstream. i think, and the politics is interesting because as i said, lizz, i thought he was one thing politically. i don't want to get him in trouble.

when you talk to him privately, you're surprised he's that way. i thought he was another way. that means he's probably very good. carson for all those years, you never knew where he stood politically. one time he came out for gun control after his friend, bobby kennedy was killed which wasn't political. it was emotional. it's amazing how these guys -- jon stewart is pretty clearly a liberal. i mean, you know what i mean. >> i think hthat a good person with good political jokes doesn't look to the left or the right and whatever your political viewpoints are, sometimes you have to bite your knuckle when you have to make fun of the person that maybe you like. and if you're pointing out hypocrisy, that really doesn't know any ideology because it's politics, let's be honest. and so i think jay has been always really good at pinpointing who's screwing up, i'm going to laser in on that and make the point that everybody kind of gets on board with. >> i'll go back to my original thought i bring out all the time. you know what it's like, it's not just you're funny, it's you're good company. jay leno has been great company for 20 years just like carson was. they create a party every night

you get invited to personally and can't beat that. thank you, bill carter, thank you, lizz winstead. we'll be right back after this. for under $300. but this asus with windows is lightweight and has everything they need -- not like chromebooks that can't install office or have to be connected to the internet to get much done. with this they can do homework, chat, play games -- on their own laptop, and their own time. so no more fighting... at least not over my laptop. ♪ honestly, i wanna see you be brave ♪ at least not over my laptop. (meowright on cue. (laughs) it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with wholesome ingredients and irresistible taste, no wonder it's the only one cats

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let me finish tonight with something that's been bothering me. why do people hate this president so much? i understand the usual partisan attitudes, how one party doesn't like to see the other in the white house. sure. i can understand why people are angered by wars we get sucked into by false arguments.

count me in on that one. but what's the obama hatred all about? republicans had their chance to modify the health care plan, it was they who decided to sit back and let the democrats do it all alone. ask senators enzi and hatch and the others why they dropped out of the bargaining and let the democrats in the senate come up with the 60 votes they needed by themselves. after speaker boehner why he didn't want to negotiate a different program. of course, everyone would have been happier to have a health care bill passed by 70% of the congress rather than narrow partisan majority. but whose fault was that? and all this other stuff, the obscure irs story that's not gotten tied to the obama political people. the benghazi brouhaha that was discredited by the bipartisan senate intelligence committee that basically squared the obama claims with the evidence showing it really was a spontaneous attack probably triggered by a cairo attack and the dumb anti-islamic movie out of los angeles. don't you get the sense the obama hatred is a hatred in

search of a reason? whatever comes along becomes a way to find a way to explain hating the guy. is it the way the guy lives his life? is it his family? is he's a democrat, really? is that the reason to hate him? or is it just because, just because, just because he is who he is? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight, take a second to think about what a republican-controlled house has looked like for this country. now, imagine what a republican-controlled senate would look like. with ted cruz basically calling the shots. that is the scary reality democrats are facing right now. today, barely 24 hours after senate democrats met with the president to talk about strategy, democrats are ringing the alarm. obama's former campaign